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Who will be the official opposition after the next election? – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,558
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    To anyone who wants to feel old:

    The song “Three Lions”, with the lyric “30 years of hurt”, is now itself 30 years old.

    It’s wierd to think of things before you were born. The moon landings finished only five years before i was born, but it might as well be five decades for all I know.

    I talked to a Man United fan at the hot-desking hub recently who was born three years after, "Football, bloody hell." So I realise now that I sound like those oul fellas talking about where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot and the like.
    We've all got our imprinted memories. I teach at Uni and as I'm now into my fifties the cultural links are getting harder. I was discussing events in 2012 with them and realised that they were all under 10 at the time and what was a bit event for me barely touched their lives. And its weird that the millenium is just something that happened to their parents.

    But then that's the way life goes.
    We're just under four months away from the 25th anniversary of 9/11.
    It's interesting to note when a past period as presented on tv or film starts to assume the look of 'costume drama'. I'd say that now applies to the 90s.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,001
    edited May 18
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe non payment of tax might then become relevant.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Sean_F said:

    Makerfield will be interesting.

    We have no constituency polling yet. We have only the Ipsos survey for the North West.

    Burnham's approval rating is 48%, compared to 30% for Farage. I imagine that Burnham will match that 48% in Makerfield, and Farage will exceed 30%,.

    OTOH, Labour has 22% approval in the NW, whereas Reform has 31%. I expect that in Makerfield, Reform's rating will be higher than 31%.

    Sot, it will come down to whether people will wish to bash Labour, or will they be willing to go for a popular Labour candidate.

    You assume that Reform are going to get the votes, yet Restore's candidate is local and is going to eat into Reform's polling..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,557

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    To anyone who wants to feel old:

    The song “Three Lions”, with the lyric “30 years of hurt”, is now itself 30 years old.

    It’s wierd to think of things before you were born. The moon landings finished only five years before i was born, but it might as well be five decades for all I know.

    I talked to a Man United fan at the hot-desking hub recently who was born three years after, "Football, bloody hell." So I realise now that I sound like those oul fellas talking about where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot and the like.
    There was a dude on X the other day, a film studies lecturer, who said he now gets young students in their first year, who have never heard of.... Pulp Fiction
    Today’s 18-year-olds were born in 2008.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,938

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/2056388829473284162

    Understand the Reform chairman reshuffle has taken place because the party is preparing for the possibility of another by-election in the coming months... and I'm not talking about those in Makerfield or Scotland

    Clacton? Farage's finance lies worse than we yet know?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe the tax question might then become relevant.
    The bigger question is what has Farage promised in return for that £5m...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632

    MaxPB said:

    Reform should be all over this social housing scandal, now brewing up on X like good coffee

    It has perfect ingredients, migrants, fraud, welfare, foreigners, corruption, and native Brits losing out - twice over. Not only are Britons kicked off the council houding queue so African royals and millionaire terrorists can have a nice pied a terre in Zone 1, native Brits ALSO pay for this, through their taxes

    For Reform, scandals don't get much better

    It's also a perfect wedge issue for young graduates who might be culturally on the left but can see the system being rigged against them.

    25 years ago, Labour wanted an ever-growing share of people to go to university, but now the message to them is that they can go to the back of the queue and commute in from zone 27 while people their taxes are paying for get to live in prime areas.
    A welfare state only works in a high trust, well integrated society. Where fairness is ingrained and transparently obvious. Where you can see who is being helped, and why, and it all makes sense

    We no longer have a high trust, well integrated society, we have sectarian groups sucking illegally off the mass of taxpayers. As a result we will soon abandon the welfare state as we've known it, because people will refuse to pay for it
    I think ultimately the government will just have to say no welfare of any kind for foreign nationals regardless of visas or any other kind of status. Non-citizens should not get any access to UK welfare including healthcare and education. Any person who wishes to immigrate to the UK must be prepared to make supplementary payments to cover any healthcare costs and any dependent costs for education and healthcare. We're being run by complete mugs and as I said on the last thread, my neighbour suggested that access to housing and healthcare for immigrants is the issue that makes people the most angry at the rally on the weekend.

    Reform would do well to add it all up and turn it into a personal tax bill for an average household per year. I expect it will look like a pretty big number.
    Indeed

    About five years ago a rightwing journalist told me how he got red-pilled. It was exactly this. He was a liberal lefty and he was sent to do a piece on social housing in London. And slowly and surely he uncovered the enormous scale of the fraud, how half of London social housing goes to foreigners, how half of that (or whatever) is illegally sublet. And all because quite a lot of local government is now a sectarian mafia - see Tower Hamlets, et al. do you think they are carefully allocating social housing to the needy? Or giving it to their family and friends at the mosque to make loads of money?

    The entire nation is being scammed, on a huge scale. In the end my friend dropped the story because, he said, it depressed him too much!
    Not really the entire nation, just parts of London that continually elect Labour councils or in Tower Hamlets Rahman and Aspire
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,938
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    Pro-EU Labour figures very disappointed by this as they had thought Burnham was running to prove a Rejoin candidate could win in Makerfield and Brexit could be reversed. “Shambles,” says one

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056376674040623451

    Words almost fail me ! Burnham could have handled this in a way which allowed him to look principled and at the same time moderated his pro EU stance in the leave voting constituency. He’s now trying to also piss off Green voters which he needs . And further down the line his u-turn allows Streeting to feel less pressure to allow a coronation as he can go to the membership which are pro EU .

    A lot of people were projecting a lot of hope onto Andy Burnham but he's still the same person who lost two leadership elections and failed to beat Red Ed Miliband and Jeremy fucking Corbyn.
    To be fair, they weren't Streeting...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,829
    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    If they don't want to farm on it, then rewild it.

    It's the fecking green belt, not a "derelict petrol station" on so -called "grey belt".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    Unpopular said:

    Just heard Burnham say Britain has been going in the wrong direction for forty years since the deindustrialization of the 80's.

    Labour were in power for a third of that (13) Burnham and MP for near half (16), He was in government for a quarter or so (9) and a minister for 5!
    No wonder he lost before. Who comes out and says I was part of a government taking us in the wrong first but didn't say so?

    Credit for Hillsborough legislation, but pushing PFI, voting for student fees, being in the treasury when Northern rock failed and being a virtual cheer leader for the War in Iraq. The last thing he should be doing is making people look back.

    Peter.

    I wonder whether Ar Wes'll bring up Iraq during the by-election or whether he'll wait for the Leadership election to point out how he left the party over the invasion, in contrast to Mr Burnham.
    Iraq is now free of Saddam, Burnham was right, Starmer and Streeting and Corbyn were wrong to oppose the war
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035

    Fantasy polling 3 years outside a GE with another anti Kemi comment

    You've gone from saying Nigel Farage will never be PM to now saying he could be PM.
    If Burnham loses this epoch election to reform then that will be a disaster and yes that could herald Farage as PM, God forbid
    A Burnham "Portillo Moment" would be hilarious.

    The notion that he is the only hope of preventing the country descending into Faragism is preposterous.
    It really would be hard to resist the temptation, if one were a Makerfield voter.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,927
    kinabalu said:

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    To anyone who wants to feel old:

    The song “Three Lions”, with the lyric “30 years of hurt”, is now itself 30 years old.

    It’s wierd to think of things before you were born. The moon landings finished only five years before i was born, but it might as well be five decades for all I know.

    I talked to a Man United fan at the hot-desking hub recently who was born three years after, "Football, bloody hell." So I realise now that I sound like those oul fellas talking about where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot and the like.
    We've all got our imprinted memories. I teach at Uni and as I'm now into my fifties the cultural links are getting harder. I was discussing events in 2012 with them and realised that they were all under 10 at the time and what was a bit event for me barely touched their lives. And its weird that the millenium is just something that happened to their parents.

    But then that's the way life goes.
    We're just under four months away from the 25th anniversary of 9/11.
    It's interesting to note when a past period as presented on tv or film starts to assume the look of 'costume drama'. I'd say that now applies to the 90s.
    I'd say later; that 2007-2010 period where the smart phone really rolled out and seemed to be in everyone's hands all of the time. Things from before then seem almost oddly phone-less now.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,402
    Heard Burnham on TV while getting my haircut.

    Rather a negative speech I thought.

    And a fair bit of Southerner bashing which may play well in Manchester but seems a bit of a hostage to fortune if he has to win a nationwide election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,777
    edited May 18

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/2056388829473284162

    Understand the Reform chairman reshuffle has taken place because the party is preparing for the possibility of another by-election in the coming months... and I'm not talking about those in Makerfield or Scotland

    Clacton? Farage's finance lies worse than we yet know?
    My expectation is that it will be Central Suffolk and North Ipswich.

    The Tory MP's trial of two counts of sexual assault starts in the middle of July.

    Whilst this isn't presuming his guilt, the Tories & Reform would be bonkers not to be planning for a by-election, it has happened in the past.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,829

    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    Exactly. Plenty of surfaces to put them on (if we really must install a form of generation that only operates when we don't need the power), rather than desecrating the countryside.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 1,007
    HYUFD said:

    Unpopular said:

    Just heard Burnham say Britain has been going in the wrong direction for forty years since the deindustrialization of the 80's.

    Labour were in power for a third of that (13) Burnham and MP for near half (16), He was in government for a quarter or so (9) and a minister for 5!
    No wonder he lost before. Who comes out and says I was part of a government taking us in the wrong first but didn't say so?

    Credit for Hillsborough legislation, but pushing PFI, voting for student fees, being in the treasury when Northern rock failed and being a virtual cheer leader for the War in Iraq. The last thing he should be doing is making people look back.

    Peter.

    I wonder whether Ar Wes'll bring up Iraq during the by-election or whether he'll wait for the Leadership election to point out how he left the party over the invasion, in contrast to Mr Burnham.
    Iraq is now free of Saddam, Burnham was right, Starmer and Streeting and Corbyn were wrong to oppose the war
    I think, sometimes, there might be something to that point of view. I go back and forth on it.

    I wouldn't recommend taking that message to the Labour membership if I wanted to win a leadership election, however.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Makerfield will be interesting.

    We have no constituency polling yet. We have only the Ipsos survey for the North West.

    Burnham's approval rating is 48%, compared to 30% for Farage. I imagine that Burnham will match that 48% in Makerfield, and Farage will exceed 30%,.

    OTOH, Labour has 22% approval in the NW, whereas Reform has 31%. I expect that in Makerfield, Reform's rating will be higher than 31%.

    Sot, it will come down to whether people will wish to bash Labour, or will they be willing to go for a popular Labour candidate.

    You assume that Reform are going to get the votes, yet Restore's candidate is local and is going to eat into Reform's polling..
    Restore will be polling in three figures.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,045
    edited May 18

    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    I totally agree. There are square km of flat roofs in the commercial sector which are suitable.

    I think we are seeing quite a lot of rooftop. It is becoming compulsory on newbuild houses, and there are business rate exemptions for more than a decade for business organisations that invest, and a VAT discount to 5%.

    Plus there's a lot being done by GB-whatever-it-is-called on eg defence property.

    TBF to them, the Cons had already done quite a lot, and total UK installed solar went up by 10%+ in 2025 to 21 GW (I assume that is peak capacity), but Miliband has put rocket boosters on it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    Sean_F said:

    Makerfield will be interesting.

    We have no constituency polling yet. We have only the Ipsos survey for the North West.

    Burnham's approval rating is 48%, compared to 30% for Farage. I imagine that Burnham will match that 48% in Makerfield, and Farage will exceed 30%,.

    OTOH, Labour has 22% approval in the NW, whereas Reform has 31%. I expect that in Makerfield, Reform's rating will be higher than 31%.

    Sot, it will come down to whether people will wish to bash Labour, or will they be willing to go for a popular Labour candidate.

    Makerfield is also only Reform’s 29th target seat, Labour could retain their majority even if they lose it. So if Burnham won it that would be devastating for Farage’s chances of becoming PM and a huge boost for Labour if they replaced Starmer as their leader and PM with Burnham
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,923
    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    Sean_F said:

    Makerfield will be interesting.

    We have no constituency polling yet. We have only the Ipsos survey for the North West.

    Burnham's approval rating is 48%, compared to 30% for Farage. I imagine that Burnham will match that 48% in Makerfield, and Farage will exceed 30%,.

    OTOH, Labour has 22% approval in the NW, whereas Reform has 31%. I expect that in Makerfield, Reform's rating will be higher than 31%.

    Sot, it will come down to whether people will wish to bash Labour, or will they be willing to go for a popular Labour candidate.

    You assume that Reform are going to get the votes, yet Restore's candidate is local and is going to eat into Reform's polling..
    Restore will be polling in three figures.
    110% ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,877
    edited May 18
    Who will be the official opposition? Don't know but current polling has some but not all the answers.

    1) Despite Reform surging again and regaining biggish leads if you look at the numbers as a traditional Left of Centre/Right of Centre split, the two groups remain evenly split at around half the votes each. This is the single most important fact.

    2) The top two parties in the next election will be, as always, one from each half.

    3) The Left of Centre vote will, in my opinion (guess), gather around Labour (in England). Reasons: LDs are stuck and can't move out of their now stable position as Labour's proxy in Waitroseland. Greens are too nuts to dominate the left of centre for three years including an election campaign. Only Labour are left to fly the flag and be top Left party.

    4) For the Tories to recover three things have to happen: They have to look electable; Reform must be put on the defensive, Labour must do well in old Labourland; and polling has to shift to put the Tories as the main Right challenger.

    5) Labour will win (in the sense of being the lead governing party, not a majority) the next election. Whether the official opposition is Reform or Tory is about 60/40 in favour of the Tories.

    (If Reform win Makerfield, all bets based on this are off!)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,230

    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-angela-merkel-eu-russia-ukraine-war/

    Germany’s Merkel criticizes EU for not talking to Russia

    At last , Trump, Farage and Merkel all on the same page!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    Unpopular said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unpopular said:

    Just heard Burnham say Britain has been going in the wrong direction for forty years since the deindustrialization of the 80's.

    Labour were in power for a third of that (13) Burnham and MP for near half (16), He was in government for a quarter or so (9) and a minister for 5!
    No wonder he lost before. Who comes out and says I was part of a government taking us in the wrong first but didn't say so?

    Credit for Hillsborough legislation, but pushing PFI, voting for student fees, being in the treasury when Northern rock failed and being a virtual cheer leader for the War in Iraq. The last thing he should be doing is making people look back.

    Peter.

    I wonder whether Ar Wes'll bring up Iraq during the by-election or whether he'll wait for the Leadership election to point out how he left the party over the invasion, in contrast to Mr Burnham.
    Iraq is now free of Saddam, Burnham was right, Starmer and Streeting and Corbyn were wrong to oppose the war
    I think, sometimes, there might be something to that point of view. I go back and forth on it.

    I wouldn't recommend taking that message to the Labour membership if I wanted to win a leadership election, however.
    Burnham isn’t, he is focused on taxing the rich more to build more social homes and fund the NHS more etc and opposing Trump’s Iran War to make up for his ‘sin’ of backing removing Saddam
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    I totally agree. There are square km of flat roofs in the commercial sector which are suitable.

    I think we are seeing quite a lot of rooftop. It is becoming compulsory on newbuild houses, and there are business rate exemptions for more than a decade for business organisations that invest, and a VAT discount to 5%.

    Plus there's a lot being done by GB-whatever-it-is-called on eg defence property.

    TBF to them, the Cons had already done quite a lot, and total UK installed solar went up by 10%+ in 2025 to 21 GW (I assume that is peak capacity), but Miliband has put rocket boosters on it.
    There is a falacy that all rooftops are suitable for solar, from what i've seen a lot of roofs don't have the strength to take the extra weight solar panels would add.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,688
    edited May 18
    MattW said:

    An interesting piece on religion and politics for some UK evangelicals, based on work done at the time of Brexit amongst congregants of Holy Trinity, Brompton. Because of the variety in the community, this is really about Anglican Charismatic Evangelicals, and HTB has been rather more influenced by the USA than others in the UK as they are a key junction box in the international network, tending to host many high profile speakers. HTB explicitly ruled out political views around Brexit expressed from the pulpit, and held more a neutral day of prayer at the time.

    An interesting point is that the evangelicals surveyed had a very internationalist orientation, and a strong desire to separate church and politics, even though the one may inform the other. I'd be interested to know how that has changed since the paper came out in 2018.

    https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10111923/3/Gaddini_Submission_JCR_ Identities in Flux. Final Revision.pdf

    I ask: What does it mean to be British and evangelical? How do these religious and national identities interact with each other? And most importantly, how did this interaction change during the referendum and Trump’s election? By investigating how evangelical British identity altered during these two important political events, this article brings granular attention to one of the most overlooked aspects of the British referendum: religion.

    As ever with qualitative social science papers, simple transcripts of the interviews would be much more interesting to read than the word salad analysis.

    I particularly enjoyed:

    "Over the space of only five months, these women’s beliefs about whether and how
    church leaders should intervene in politics altered considerably. During the February session,
    when the conversation revolved around Trump and Bethel, the women felt church leaders
    should never comment on their political allegiances. However, at the July Bible study
    gathering, after Britain voted to leave the EU, the women expressed the exact opposite
    attitude."

    The next time I'm staggeringly hypocritical on a point of principle, I'm going to simply say my beliefs have "altered considerably".
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,419

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/2056388829473284162

    Understand the Reform chairman reshuffle has taken place because the party is preparing for the possibility of another by-election in the coming months... and I'm not talking about those in Makerfield or Scotland

    Clacton? Farage's finance lies worse than we yet know?
    My expectation is that it will be Central Suffolk and North Ipswich.

    The Tory MP's trial of two counts of sexual assault starts in the middle of July.

    Whilst this isn't presuming his guilt, the Tories & Reform would be bonkers not to be planning for a by-election, it has happened in the past.
    No hint of that in the vetting when he was selected?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314
    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,688
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting piece on religion and politics for some UK evangelicals, based on work done at the time of Brexit amongst congregants of Holy Trinity, Brompton. Because of the variety in the community, this is really about Anglican Charismatic Evangelicals, and HTB has been rather more influenced by the USA than others in the UK as they are a key junction box in the international network, tending to host many high profile speakers. HTB explicitly ruled out political views around Brexit expressed from the pulpit, and held more a neutral day of prayer at the time.

    An interesting point is that the evangelicals surveyed had a very internationalist orientation, and a strong desire to separate church and politics, even though the one may inform the other. I'd be interested to know how that has changed since the paper came out in 2018.

    https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10111923/3/Gaddini_Submission_JCR_ Identities in Flux. Final Revision.pdf

    I ask: What does it mean to be British and evangelical? How do these religious and national identities interact with each other? And most importantly, how did this interaction change during the referendum and Trump’s election? By investigating how evangelical British identity altered during these two important political events, this article brings granular attention to one of the most overlooked aspects of the British referendum: religion.

    As ever with qualitative social science papers, simple transcripts of the interviews would be much more interesting to read than the word salad analysis.

    I particularly enjoyed:

    "Over the space of only five months, these women’s beliefs about whether and how
    church leaders should intervene in politics altered considerably. During the February session,
    when the conversation revolved around Trump and Bethel, the women felt church leaders
    should never comment on their political allegiances. However, at the July Bible study
    gathering, after Britain voted to leave the EU, the women expressed the exact opposite
    attitude."

    The next time I'm staggeringly hypocritical on a point of principle, I'm going to simply say my beliefs have simply "altered considerably".
    "The week before, Sandra cancelled social engagements with other Christians she feared might be Brexiters and reported crying
    several times in the days following the vote."

    It's always Sandra.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,777
    Dopermean said:

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/2056388829473284162

    Understand the Reform chairman reshuffle has taken place because the party is preparing for the possibility of another by-election in the coming months... and I'm not talking about those in Makerfield or Scotland

    Clacton? Farage's finance lies worse than we yet know?
    My expectation is that it will be Central Suffolk and North Ipswich.

    The Tory MP's trial of two counts of sexual assault starts in the middle of July.

    Whilst this isn't presuming his guilt, the Tories & Reform would be bonkers not to be planning for a by-election, it has happened in the past.
    No hint of that in the vetting when he was selected?
    Nope.
  • eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    So, why don't they ?

    Actually it is because sheep will chew through the cables within weeks and cattle will scratch their arses on the uprights from day one. No you generally can't put livestock in fields with solar panels. Oh, chickens will shit on them
  • algarkirk said:

    Who will be the official opposition? Don't know but current polling has some but not all the answers.

    1) Despite Reform surging again and regaining biggish leads if you look at the numbers as a traditional Left of Centre/Right of Centre split, the two groups remain evenly split at around half the votes each. This is the single most important fact.

    2) The top two parties in the next election will be, as always, one from each half.

    3) The Left of Centre vote will, in my opinion (guess), gather around Labour (in England). Reasons: LDs are stuck and can't move out of their now stable position as Labour's proxy in Waitroseland. Greens are too nuts to dominate the left of centre for three years including an election campaign. Only Labour are left to fly the flag and be top Left party.

    4) For the Tories to recover three things have to happen: They have to look electable; Reform must be put on the defensive, Labour must do well in old Labourland; and polling has to shift to put the Tories as the main Right challenger.

    5) Labour will win (in the sense of being the lead governing party, not a majority) the next election. Whether the official opposition is Reform or Tory is about 60/40 in favour of the Tories.

    (If Reform win Makerfield, all bets based on this are off!)

    Well this is a massive turnaround. @algarkirk examines tbe political situation and concludes that Reform won’t win. You’ve said this 8,926 times before but it always comes as a shock
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533
    Sean_F said:

    Makerfield will be interesting.

    We have no constituency polling yet. We have only the Ipsos survey for the North West.

    Burnham's approval rating is 48%, compared to 30% for Farage. I imagine that Burnham will match that 48% in Makerfield, and Farage will exceed 30%,.

    OTOH, Labour has 22% approval in the NW, whereas Reform has 31%. I expect that in Makerfield, Reform's rating will be higher than 31%.

    Sot, it will come down to whether people will wish to bash Labour, or will they be willing to go for a popular Labour candidate.

    The constituency polling was really innacurate in Gorton and Denton, so anything out of Makerfield should be taken with a pinch of salt.

    Omnisis was closest of the 3, getting the Labour and Reform votes within 1% but underestimated Green by 8%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Gorton_and_Denton_by-election
  • Let's talk about Burnham and his chances of being ousted by a curry, that was the specialist subject of one poster
  • eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    So, why don't they ?

    Actually it is because sheep will chew through the cables within weeks and cattle will scratch their arses on the uprights from day one. No you generally can't put livestock in fields with solar panels. Oh, chickens will shit on them
    Actually the roofs is more sense, provided it is a new shed. Existing sheds aren't strong enough for the extra burden. But, it isn't straight forward and you can't run three phase to a shed, however big.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439

    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    So, why don't they ?

    Actually it is because sheep will chew through the cables within weeks and cattle will scratch their arses on the uprights from day one. No you generally can't put livestock in fields with solar panels. Oh, chickens will shit on them
    Aside from a farmer who I know who keeps sheep in the fields with his solar panels….

    Yes, you have to put some metal flexible duct over exposed cables. But then you should in an outdoor setup, anyway.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,777
    @BatteryCorrectHorse

    You've been told, don't doxx posters.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    I totally agree. There are square km of flat roofs in the commercial sector which are suitable.

    I think we are seeing quite a lot of rooftop. It is becoming compulsory on newbuild houses, and there are business rate exemptions for more than a decade for business organisations that invest, and a VAT discount to 5%.

    Plus there's a lot being done by GB-whatever-it-is-called on eg defence property.

    TBF to them, the Cons had already done quite a lot, and total UK installed solar went up by 10%+ in 2025 to 21 GW (I assume that is peak capacity), but Miliband has put rocket boosters on it.
    There is a falacy that all rooftops are suitable for solar, from what i've seen a lot of roofs don't have the strength to take the extra weight solar panels would add.
    Working at height is also an issue - it’s not free.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,953
    "Gullis wants to lead 'flagship' Reform council"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz72njy48e1o
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,319
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    To anyone who wants to feel old:

    The song “Three Lions”, with the lyric “30 years of hurt”, is now itself 30 years old.

    It’s wierd to think of things before you were born. The moon landings finished only five years before i was born, but it might as well be five decades for all I know.

    I talked to a Man United fan at the hot-desking hub recently who was born three years after, "Football, bloody hell." So I realise now that I sound like those oul fellas talking about where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot and the like.
    There was a dude on X the other day, a film studies lecturer, who said he now gets young students in their first year, who have never heard of.... Pulp Fiction
    Today’s 18-year-olds were born in 2008.
    Poor sods! Old enough to vote. Too young to remember GDP growth rates over 3% per annum or a balance of payments surplus.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314
    On the housing discussion:

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240

    I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded.

    This was back in 2012, by the way. Imagine how much worse it is now.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,571
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe the tax question might then become relevant.
    The bigger question is what has Farage promised in return for that £5m...
    The biggest question and the most serious, given the source geographically and methodology should be Money Laundering.

    It would be very very interesting to see what money laundering disclosures were given between both banks and individuals.

    A gift of £5,000,000 for personal security, just does not hack it... It definitely would not for the vast majority.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,953

    Just heard Burnham say Britain has been going in the wrong direction for forty years since the deindustrialization of the 80's.

    Labour were in power for a third of that (13) Burnham and MP for near half (16), He was in government for a quarter or so (9) and a minister for 5!
    No wonder he lost before. Who comes out and says I was part of a government taking us in the wrong first but didn't say so?

    Credit for Hillsborough legislation, but pushing PFI, voting for student fees, being in the treasury when Northern rock failed and being a virtual cheer leader for the War in Iraq. The last thing he should be doing is making people look back.

    Peter.

    Interesting. When right-wingers say things like this they're accused of wanting to "go back to the dark ages", etc.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,558
    Sean_F said:

    Makerfield will be interesting.

    We have no constituency polling yet. We have only the Ipsos survey for the North West.

    Burnham's approval rating is 48%, compared to 30% for Farage. I imagine that Burnham will match that 48% in Makerfield, and Farage will exceed 30%,.

    OTOH, Labour has 22% approval in the NW, whereas Reform has 31%. I expect that in Makerfield, Reform's rating will be higher than 31%.

    Sot, it will come down to whether people will wish to bash Labour, or will they be willing to go for a popular Labour candidate.

    They have just had the chance - and took it - to bash Labour, so the question is more do they want to press the bruise. If they do, that's Burnham gone and another advance for Farage and his PM prospects. But this one has a different dynamic in that there's no chance of your Labour vote being taken as support for that most reviled man in the annals of British history, Sir Keir Starmer. I'm very hopeful Burnham wins. If he does, much of the momentum Reform gained from the Locals will dissipate. It will be - sorry for the chestnut but I can't better it - a gamechanger.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    On the housing discussion:

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240

    I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded.

    This was back in 2012, by the way. Imagine how much worse it is now.

    Leon has been all over that multiple times already today - keep up.

    I also think it's designed as a trigger conversation and it's likely to be a far smaller issue then you may think.

    Would probably be worth getting local authorities to validate that the people in their council houses are who they are supposed to be..
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    On the housing discussion:

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240

    I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded.

    This was back in 2012, by the way. Imagine how much worse it is now.

    Leon has been all over that multiple times already today - keep up.

    I also think it's designed as a trigger conversation and it's likely to be a far smaller issue then you may think.

    Would probably be worth getting local authorities to validate that the people in their council houses are who they are supposed to be..
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    To anyone who wants to feel old:

    The song “Three Lions”, with the lyric “30 years of hurt”, is now itself 30 years old.

    It’s wierd to think of things before you were born. The moon landings finished only five years before i was born, but it might as well be five decades for all I know.

    I talked to a Man United fan at the hot-desking hub recently who was born three years after, "Football, bloody hell." So I realise now that I sound like those oul fellas talking about where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot and the like.
    There was a dude on X the other day, a film studies lecturer, who said he now gets young students in their first year, who have never heard of.... Pulp Fiction
    Today’s 18-year-olds were born in 2008.
    Poor sods! Old enough to vote. Too young to remember GDP growth rates over 3% per annum or a balance of payments surplus.
    I suspect that they can remember 2021 and 2022.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,938
    Brixian59 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe the tax question might then become relevant.
    The bigger question is what has Farage promised in return for that £5m...
    The biggest question and the most serious, given the source geographically and methodology should be Money Laundering.

    It would be very very interesting to see what money laundering disclosures were given between both banks and individuals.

    A gift of £5,000,000 for personal security, just does not hack it... It definitely would not for the vast majority.
    And what income tax did he pay - and when?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,688
    eek said:

    On the housing discussion:

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240

    I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded.

    This was back in 2012, by the way. Imagine how much worse it is now.

    Leon has been all over that multiple times already today - keep up.

    I also think it's designed as a trigger conversation and it's likely to be a far smaller issue then you may think.

    Would probably be worth getting local authorities to validate that the people in their council houses are who they are supposed to be..
    It would, but it's a little bit "papers, please". So it would have to be done carefully.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,045
    edited May 18
    Dopermean said:

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/2056388829473284162

    Understand the Reform chairman reshuffle has taken place because the party is preparing for the possibility of another by-election in the coming months... and I'm not talking about those in Makerfield or Scotland

    Clacton? Farage's finance lies worse than we yet know?
    My expectation is that it will be Central Suffolk and North Ipswich.

    The Tory MP's trial of two counts of sexual assault starts in the middle of July.

    Whilst this isn't presuming his guilt, the Tories & Reform would be bonkers not to be planning for a by-election, it has happened in the past.
    No hint of that in the vetting when he was selected?
    Alleged offences in 2023. Police interview March 2025, charged in I think May, so post-election. Allegedly drunken groping at the Groucho club. Not-guilty plea - and his self-label is "probity in politics". There's a directions hearing in July. So it could be rapid or drawn out.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g7g1858rpo
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,001
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe the tax question might then become relevant.
    The bigger question is what has Farage promised in return for that £5m...
    Under the Bribery Act you don't need to prove a direct quid pro quo because most bribes are indirect: Why don't you get your daughter to apply for a job at my firm? Then some time later contracts are issued and it so happens that firm gets the deal.

    To be a bribe under the Act, two questions need to be answered in the affirmative, The first question is did Harborne offer a financial or other advantage to Farage, and did he accept it? As far as I know this is undisputed.

    The second question is, was the intention to get Farage to act improperly in his role, or could Farage have acted improperly as a consequence of recieving the money? Acting improperly could include breach of trust as a reasonable person would understand it. The wording of the Act is deliberately vague.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,877
    edited May 18

    algarkirk said:

    Who will be the official opposition? Don't know but current polling has some but not all the answers.

    1) Despite Reform surging again and regaining biggish leads if you look at the numbers as a traditional Left of Centre/Right of Centre split, the two groups remain evenly split at around half the votes each. This is the single most important fact.

    2) The top two parties in the next election will be, as always, one from each half.

    3) The Left of Centre vote will, in my opinion (guess), gather around Labour (in England). Reasons: LDs are stuck and can't move out of their now stable position as Labour's proxy in Waitroseland. Greens are too nuts to dominate the left of centre for three years including an election campaign. Only Labour are left to fly the flag and be top Left party.

    4) For the Tories to recover three things have to happen: They have to look electable; Reform must be put on the defensive, Labour must do well in old Labourland; and polling has to shift to put the Tories as the main Right challenger.

    5) Labour will win (in the sense of being the lead governing party, not a majority) the next election. Whether the official opposition is Reform or Tory is about 60/40 in favour of the Tories.

    (If Reform win Makerfield, all bets based on this are off!)

    Well this is a massive turnaround. @algarkirk examines tbe political situation and concludes that Reform won’t win. You’ve said this 8,926 times before but it always comes as a shock
    I am like Cassandra in that I am never believed. Unlike Cassandra in that I am always wrong. So I suppose I'm a centrist Mark Steyn, as I remember those happy days when weekly in the Spectator he forecasted American intervention in Iraq bringing about a renewed garden of Eden in that happy country.

    I had lost count, so thank you for counting for me. 8927: Reform win neither win nor govern. Bet accordingly. DYOR.

  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,623
    edited May 18

    @BatteryCorrectHorse

    You've been told, don't doxx posters.

    How is it doxxing when they link to their own articles that tell us who they are?

    I recall when I rejoined I was instantly outed - I didn’t try very hard to hide it but how is this any different?

    There are plenty of posters here who have rejoined and have at least made an effort to hide who they are. This one does not.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,255

    Fantasy polling 3 years outside a GE with another anti Kemi comment

    You've gone from saying Nigel Farage will never be PM to now saying he could be PM.
    If Burnham loses this epoch election to reform then that will be a disaster and yes that could herald Farage as PM, God forbid
    I remain to be convinced that Badenoch won't install Farage as PM if push comes to shove.

    Whilst the Tories remain lagging well behind Reform there always remains the chance she would go into coalition if Reform are the largest party, whatever she might say now..
  • https://x.com/andyburnhamgm/status/2056329868845936933

    It’s part of my regular routine. I often leave my car at Newton station and do my morning run to pick it up. I did it again today because I had a pint at the match. I would say check it with my neighbours but don’t as they don’t deserve the intrusion on our road.👍🏻

    So erh, what I said is what he claims he does. Still, convenient timing Mr Burnham
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,419

    Brixian59 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe the tax question might then become relevant.
    The bigger question is what has Farage promised in return for that £5m...
    The biggest question and the most serious, given the source geographically and methodology should be Money Laundering.

    It would be very very interesting to see what money laundering disclosures were given between both banks and individuals.

    A gift of £5,000,000 for personal security, just does not hack it... It definitely would not for the vast majority.
    And what income tax did he pay - and when?
    On the £5m clearly none and never.
    It's not going to be money laundering there are far more sophisticated ways to do that.

    It is what it is a massive gift to a politician in plain sight because he thinks he will get away with it.
    He wants a seat at the table with the other hard right grifters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,558

    On the housing discussion:

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240

    I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded.

    This was back in 2012, by the way. Imagine how much worse it is now.

    Leon posted this fascinating piece of 'reportage' about half an hour ago. You two are treading on each other's toes.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    OllyT said:

    Fantasy polling 3 years outside a GE with another anti Kemi comment

    You've gone from saying Nigel Farage will never be PM to now saying he could be PM.
    If Burnham loses this epoch election to reform then that will be a disaster and yes that could herald Farage as PM, God forbid
    I remain to be convinced that Badenoch won't install Farage as PM if push comes to shove.

    Whilst the Tories remain lagging well behind Reform there always remains the chance she would go into coalition if Reform are the largest party, whatever she might say now..
    The only thing we know at the moment is that Badenoch doesn't want anyone to go into coalition with the Greens.

    are there any councils where Reform need the Tories to take control where the Tories have agreed - the only example we have of the opposite has very understand reasons for not wanting to go near Reform even with a bargepole...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,288

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    "Welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss"
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,419
    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    Meet the new PM same as the old PM except that this one is butterflied
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,402

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Fair play to Burnham for not going populist on this.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,402
    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    Communicate better hopefully.
  • rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    Communicate better hopefully.
    People here insist I’m wrong about this but people don’t even know what Labour has actually done under Starmer.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,288
    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    Put PR in the next manifesto?


  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652

    rkrkrk said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    Communicate better hopefully.
    People here insist I’m wrong about this but people don’t even know what Labour has actually done under Starmer.
    Breakfast clubs get mentioned a few times
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,045
    edited May 18
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting piece on religion and politics for some UK evangelicals, based on work done at the time of Brexit amongst congregants of Holy Trinity, Brompton. Because of the variety in the community, this is really about Anglican Charismatic Evangelicals, and HTB has been rather more influenced by the USA than others in the UK as they are a key junction box in the international network, tending to host many high profile speakers. HTB explicitly ruled out political views around Brexit expressed from the pulpit, and held more a neutral day of prayer at the time.

    An interesting point is that the evangelicals surveyed had a very internationalist orientation, and a strong desire to separate church and politics, even though the one may inform the other. I'd be interested to know how that has changed since the paper came out in 2018.

    https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10111923/3/Gaddini_Submission_JCR_ Identities in Flux. Final Revision.pdf

    I ask: What does it mean to be British and evangelical? How do these religious and national identities interact with each other? And most importantly, how did this interaction change during the referendum and Trump’s election? By investigating how evangelical British identity altered during these two important political events, this article brings granular attention to one of the most overlooked aspects of the British referendum: religion.

    As ever with qualitative social science papers, simple transcripts of the interviews would be much more interesting to read than the word salad analysis.

    I particularly enjoyed:

    "Over the space of only five months, these women’s beliefs about whether and how
    church leaders should intervene in politics altered considerably. During the February session,
    when the conversation revolved around Trump and Bethel, the women felt church leaders
    should never comment on their political allegiances. However, at the July Bible study
    gathering, after Britain voted to leave the EU, the women expressed the exact opposite
    attitude."

    The next time I'm staggeringly hypocritical on a point of principle, I'm going to simply say my beliefs have "altered considerably".
    I agree, but I'm comfortable with quite profound changes in views - circumstances alter cases, and views do change. That's why the best change is thoughtful and gradual not knee jerk and revolutionary.

    I've been listening to a couple of video channels with former Trump supporters who have changed their views when perceiving new data. One was a multi-year campaigner in the pro-life movement in the USA, whose metanoia generating moment was when he saw Trump being guest of honour at Pat Robertson's (Televangelist) 80th birthday celebration due to both being in the "billionires club", and copped that that side of US evangelicalism reflected USA capitalism / entrepreneurialism as much as the values of the religion.

    I've also been listening to a couple of ex-Mormons about the controlling setup in that sect / cult (choose your term). There is as much strange hierarchy and ceremonies as the freemasons.

    The section on Bethel Church was also interesting; since then that US church has had quite major scandals.

    The HTB decision that "we don't do party or partisan politics in church" was very wise.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 618
    Dopermean said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal ru
    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    Meet the new PM same as the old PM except that this one is butterflied
    We don't have a government - nor is there any prospect of one. The UK is, sadly, a bit of a laughing stock in much of the world. Not one group in Labour really can command any majority to do anything. It's a hung parliament in all but name.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,213
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT:

    To anyone who wants to feel old:

    The song “Three Lions”, with the lyric “30 years of hurt”, is now itself 30 years old.

    It’s wierd to think of things before you were born. The moon landings finished only five years before i was born, but it might as well be five decades for all I know.

    I talked to a Man United fan at the hot-desking hub recently who was born three years after, "Football, bloody hell." So I realise now that I sound like those oul fellas talking about where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot and the like.
    We've all got our imprinted memories. I teach at Uni and as I'm now into my fifties the cultural links are getting harder. I was discussing events in 2012 with them and realised that they were all under 10 at the time and what was a bit event for me barely touched their lives. And its weird that the millenium is just something that happened to their parents.

    But then that's the way life goes.
    We're just under four months away from the 25th anniversary of 9/11.
    25 years from 9/11. 21 years between the first and second world wars.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 18
    I am the proud owner of a magnificent Neanderthal hand axe. Unearthed in the Dordogne in 1970, provenance confirmed. Probably made about 50,000 years ago

    It is a thing of beauty. It has been knapped - and I know good knapping - to such a fine point the edge is actually translucent. It is really really really profound and noomy to hold something beautifully crafted, 50,000 years ago, by a different species of hominid, with a brain larger than ours

    Fucking incredible, actually. One of the noomier moments of my life. First time holding it

    Cost? £90 on eBay. How can it be so cheap?????? That’s lunch for 2 at pizza express. It feels like it should cost £9,000
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652

    Taz said:

    "I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded."

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240?s=20

    Meanwhile

    "The head of Ethiopia's imperial dynasty is also living in London social housing."

    https://x.com/baylissbaghdad/status/2056345306367697236?s=20

    This is the next scandal waiting to explode. Social housing in London is being gamed by foreigners, everyone in local govt knows this. It is run by foreigners for foreigners, sucking money out of the UK

    I was told five years ago: about this

    Nothing will happen to stop it or change it.

    The people complaining about it will be called racist and the problem deemed we don’t build enough.

    When we do build they’re not always available. Must have been thousands of translators.

    https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/private-flats-taken-off-market-and-set-up-for-afghan-refugees

    😃😃😃😃
    It will stop when we get a Reform government. No other party has the desire or the bollocks. That is why you, we, all of us, must vote Reform

    The alternative is an even bigger explosion of anger, further down the line. And it will be decidedly less democratic
    Meanwhile man with no right to work here wins an employment tribunal !!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/18/migrant-wins-employment-tribunal/
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,213
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe non payment of tax might then become relevant.
    Maybe Coutts had a point.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652
    MaxPB said:

    Reform should be all over this social housing scandal, now brewing up on X like good coffee

    It has perfect ingredients, migrants, fraud, welfare, foreigners, corruption, and native Brits losing out - twice over. Not only are Britons kicked off the council houding queue so African royals and millionaire terrorists can have a nice pied a terre in Zone 1, native Brits ALSO pay for this, through their taxes

    For Reform, scandals don't get much better

    It's also a perfect wedge issue for young graduates who might be culturally on the left but can see the system being rigged against them.

    25 years ago, Labour wanted an ever-growing share of people to go to university, but now the message to them is that they can go to the back of the queue and commute in from zone 27 while people their taxes are paying for get to live in prime areas.
    A welfare state only works in a high trust, well integrated society. Where fairness is ingrained and transparently obvious. Where you can see who is being helped, and why, and it all makes sense

    We no longer have a high trust, well integrated society, we have sectarian groups sucking illegally off the mass of taxpayers. As a result we will soon abandon the welfare state as we've known it, because people will refuse to pay for it
    I think ultimately the government will just have to say no welfare of any kind for foreign nationals regardless of visas or any other kind of status. Non-citizens should not get any access to UK welfare including healthcare and education. Any person who wishes to immigrate to the UK must be prepared to make supplementary payments to cover any healthcare costs and any dependent costs for education and healthcare. We're being run by complete mugs and as I said on the last thread, my neighbour suggested that access to housing and healthcare for immigrants is the issue that makes people the most angry at the rally on the weekend.

    Reform would do well to add it all up and turn it into a personal tax bill for an average household per year. I expect it will look like a pretty big number.
    But that is not going to happen and there is already major pushback in Labour, including from Rayner and Burnham, to the changes to ILR which are purely about restricting access to benefits.

    The changes won’t happen once Burnham wins. So the Boriswave becomes eligible for our benefits system.

    Dig deep wage slaves.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652

    https://x.com/hoffman_noa/status/2056388829473284162

    Understand the Reform chairman reshuffle has taken place because the party is preparing for the possibility of another by-election in the coming months... and I'm not talking about those in Makerfield or Scotland

    Starmer's translation from Sir to Lord? Surely not...
    Saint Ange when she goes off to be Manc Mayor ?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    "I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded."

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240?s=20

    Meanwhile

    "The head of Ethiopia's imperial dynasty is also living in London social housing."

    https://x.com/baylissbaghdad/status/2056345306367697236?s=20

    This is the next scandal waiting to explode. Social housing in London is being gamed by foreigners, everyone in local govt knows this. It is run by foreigners for foreigners, sucking money out of the UK

    I was told five years ago: about this

    Nothing will happen to stop it or change it.

    The people complaining about it will be called racist and the problem deemed we don’t build enough.

    When we do build they’re not always available. Must have been thousands of translators.

    https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/private-flats-taken-off-market-and-set-up-for-afghan-refugees

    😃😃😃😃
    It will stop when we get a Reform government. No other party has the desire or the bollocks. That is why you, we, all of us, must vote Reform

    The alternative is an even bigger explosion of anger, further down the line. And it will be decidedly less democratic
    Meanwhile man with no right to work here wins an employment tribunal !!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/18/migrant-wins-employment-tribunal/
    Clearly you didn't read the article as the second paragraph reads

    Erin Ong is in line for compensation after winning the tribunal in Britain, even though she did not have a work permit and was only on a visitor’s visa when she was managing a hotel in the UK.

    To be honest, I actually think this is valid, the employer failed to check immigration status and abused the worker by making her do things she shouldn't have been doing due to her aliments.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Oh dear, it looks like Farage will need to come up with another story to explain his property purchase.

    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mm4uqmbbus2m

    Its a stupid lie to tell given that Farage made a load of money in the city, then in the EU parliament and then all this other grifts. And I imagine like lots of people of his age has done very well out of moving up the housing ladder. Therefore, I would say it is unsurprising he could have bought a £1 million house for cash, crypto sugar daddy or not *. But instead told another whopper and one that is easy to check (people had already checked this out days ago).

    * obviously if one was to think they might come into £5 million gift in the near future probably give you a lot more confidence.
    This £5m, was it seriously a single paid transaction from an overseas donor straight into Farage’s personal bank account?

    I understand that he wasn’t an MP at the time, but that’s the most inefficient way possible to make a donation to a politician.

    If it was actually for his security, you’d set up a company called “Reform MP Security Ltd” or similar, and pay the money to that entity.
    We might know, if he had declared it.
    But he must have paid tax on it? As income?

    Mustn't he?
    Not if it is a gift.

    Dan Neidle's got a piece on that due this week.
    But it is if it is payment for "services rendered" surely?
    If the payment is a bribe, whether Farage didn't declare it, or paid no tax on it is essentially irrelevant. It's like not declaring or not paying tax, on money you rob from the bank.

    No legitimate reason has been put forward so far for Farage to accept this £5 million into his personal account. The non declaration and possible non payment of tax are maybe taken into account if and when than question gets assessed. If for some reason it isn't actually a bribe non payment of tax might then become relevant.
    Maybe Coutts had a point.
    Coutts were so stupid that they lost a truth telling contest with Nigel Farage.

    Think about that for a minute.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,397
    rkrkrk said:

    Heard Burnham on TV while getting my haircut.

    Rather a negative speech I thought.

    And a fair bit of Southerner bashing which may play well in Manchester but seems a bit of a hostage to fortune if he has to win a nationwide election.

    Burnham's younger than Starmer, but by less than you might think; 56 rather than 63.

    His mental map of the country's politics is just as out-of-date, though. The typical Labour voter isn't an older northerner any more, they've got a degree, live in somewhere like Stevenage, do something in front of a computer screen as a job and would really like to buy a house and have children someday.

    Electorally, that ought to be brilliant because there are loads of people like that. But Labour are really struggling to come to terms with the realisation that their heritage voters are .. heritage.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,798
    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 282
    Better Communication 101.

    IMF says Uk growth to rise from a predicted 0.8% to 1.0% in new Estimates.

    "BRITAINS GROWTH TO SOUR BY A MASSIVE 20% IN JUST ONE YEAR!"

    Peter.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,318
    rkrkrk said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Fair play to Burnham for not going populist on this.
    Nah, going populist is wrong but so is assuming only one set of arbitrary fiscal rules is suitable. The current set up doesn't work and we need to be able to invest more.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    An interesting piece on religion and politics for some UK evangelicals, based on work done at the time of Brexit amongst congregants of Holy Trinity, Brompton. Because of the variety in the community, this is really about Anglican Charismatic Evangelicals, and HTB has been rather more influenced by the USA than others in the UK as they are a key junction box in the international network, tending to host many high profile speakers. HTB explicitly ruled out political views around Brexit expressed from the pulpit, and held more a neutral day of prayer at the time.

    An interesting point is that the evangelicals surveyed had a very internationalist orientation, and a strong desire to separate church and politics, even though the one may inform the other. I'd be interested to know how that has changed since the paper came out in 2018.

    https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10111923/3/Gaddini_Submission_JCR_ Identities in Flux. Final Revision.pdf

    I ask: What does it mean to be British and evangelical? How do these religious and national identities interact with each other? And most importantly, how did this interaction change during the referendum and Trump’s election? By investigating how evangelical British identity altered during these two important political events, this article brings granular attention to one of the most overlooked aspects of the British referendum: religion.

    As ever with qualitative social science papers, simple transcripts of the interviews would be much more interesting to read than the word salad analysis.

    I particularly enjoyed:

    "Over the space of only five months, these women’s beliefs about whether and how
    church leaders should intervene in politics altered considerably. During the February session,
    when the conversation revolved around Trump and Bethel, the women felt church leaders
    should never comment on their political allegiances. However, at the July Bible study
    gathering, after Britain voted to leave the EU, the women expressed the exact opposite
    attitude."

    The next time I'm staggeringly hypocritical on a point of principle, I'm going to simply say my beliefs have "altered considerably".
    I agree, but I'm comfortable with quite profound changes in views - circumstances alter cases, and views do change. That's why the best change is thoughtful and gradual not knee jerk and revolutionary.

    I've been listening to a couple of video channels with former Trump supporters who have changed their views when perceiving new data. One was a multi-year campaigner in the pro-life movement in the USA, whose metanoia generating moment was when he saw Trump being guest of honour at Pat Robertson's (Televangelist) 80th birthday celebration due to both being in the "billionires club", and copped that that side of US evangelicalism reflected USA capitalism / entrepreneurialism as much as the values of the religion.

    I've also been listening to a couple of ex-Mormons about the controlling setup in that sect / cult (choose your term). There is as much strange hierarchy and ceremonies as the freemasons.

    The section on Bethel Church was also interesting; since then that US church has had quite major scandals.

    The HTB decision that "we don't do party or partisan politics in church" was very wise.
    The Mormons were once famously reliably conservative, but are interestingly swinging more Democrat, particularly the younger ones:

    https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2026/05/17/why-are-more-young-latter-day/
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Major tax rises incoming then.

    A so called wealth tax for one, higher rate of income tax for top earners. Dividend and savings interest taxed at same rate as income tax. For starters.

  • eek said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    "I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded."

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240?s=20

    Meanwhile

    "The head of Ethiopia's imperial dynasty is also living in London social housing."

    https://x.com/baylissbaghdad/status/2056345306367697236?s=20

    This is the next scandal waiting to explode. Social housing in London is being gamed by foreigners, everyone in local govt knows this. It is run by foreigners for foreigners, sucking money out of the UK

    I was told five years ago: about this

    Nothing will happen to stop it or change it.

    The people complaining about it will be called racist and the problem deemed we don’t build enough.

    When we do build they’re not always available. Must have been thousands of translators.

    https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/private-flats-taken-off-market-and-set-up-for-afghan-refugees

    😃😃😃😃
    It will stop when we get a Reform government. No other party has the desire or the bollocks. That is why you, we, all of us, must vote Reform

    The alternative is an even bigger explosion of anger, further down the line. And it will be decidedly less democratic
    Meanwhile man with no right to work here wins an employment tribunal !!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/18/migrant-wins-employment-tribunal/
    Clearly you didn't read the article as the second paragraph reads

    Erin Ong is in line for compensation after winning the tribunal in Britain, even though she did not have a work permit and was only on a visitor’s visa when she was managing a hotel in the UK.

    To be honest, I actually think this is valid, the employer failed to check immigration status and abused the worker by making her do things she shouldn't have been doing due to her aliments.
    Yes, I have seen worse cases of Wokeness gone mad, like, er, this, from yesterday


    "A trans Indian student elected to Holyrood wants Scottish taxpayers to fund reparations to Palestinians because of their “complicity” in the “occupation” of the territory.

    Q Manivannan was elected as a Green Party MSP on the Edinburgh & Lothians East list for the pro-independence Scottish Greens last week."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/17/trans-indian-msp-wants-scots-to-pay-palestine-reparations/?recomm_id=e6eb9e25-2809-48b1-9e0d-4fb0ec9cdfc8
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,695

    rkrkrk said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Fair play to Burnham for not going populist on this.
    Nah, going populist is wrong but so is assuming only one set of arbitrary fiscal rules is suitable. The current set up doesn't work and we need to be able to invest more.
    The fiscal rules already create more space for investment as the binding rule relates to current spending, excluding investment. The rules are absolutely fine, the problems are a failure to grow the economy, higher global interest rates and relentless fiscal pressures caused by population ageing.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Taz said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Major tax rises incoming then.

    A so called wealth tax for one, higher rate of income tax for top earners. Dividend and savings interest taxed at same rate as income tax. For starters.

    Savings interest is taxed at income rate levels.

    Sod all point raising the dividend rate any higher - it's already cheaper to pay yourself via PAYE rather than dividends if you have an employee or 2 and can make use the employer's allowance.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    "I lived in an upscale apartment complex in Lagos, and several of the residents had council flats in the UK which they were subletting. They admitted that they couldn’t believe they were able to get away with it, and asked if Brits were retarded."

    https://x.com/whitesundesert/status/2056342001323299240?s=20

    Meanwhile

    "The head of Ethiopia's imperial dynasty is also living in London social housing."

    https://x.com/baylissbaghdad/status/2056345306367697236?s=20

    This is the next scandal waiting to explode. Social housing in London is being gamed by foreigners, everyone in local govt knows this. It is run by foreigners for foreigners, sucking money out of the UK

    I was told five years ago: about this

    Nothing will happen to stop it or change it.

    The people complaining about it will be called racist and the problem deemed we don’t build enough.

    When we do build they’re not always available. Must have been thousands of translators.

    https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/private-flats-taken-off-market-and-set-up-for-afghan-refugees

    😃😃😃😃
    It will stop when we get a Reform government. No other party has the desire or the bollocks. That is why you, we, all of us, must vote Reform

    The alternative is an even bigger explosion of anger, further down the line. And it will be decidedly less democratic
    Meanwhile man with no right to work here wins an employment tribunal !!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/18/migrant-wins-employment-tribunal/
    Clearly you didn't read the article as the second paragraph reads

    Erin Ong is in line for compensation after winning the tribunal in Britain, even though she did not have a work permit and was only on a visitor’s visa when she was managing a hotel in the UK.

    To be honest, I actually think this is valid, the employer failed to check immigration status and abused the worker by making her do things she shouldn't have been doing due to her aliments.
    Of course I didn’t read it. A misgendering. I hope Durham plod weren’t looking. As a principle I’m not paying for the Telegraph and I don’t approve of sites to hack paid for articles.
  • Cookie said:

    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.

    They won't quite go extinct. If the GE is looming and the polls are as they are, now, I expect the Tories to merge with Reform, in some way. As the junior partner
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 25,016
    MaxPB said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    No change with the EU relationship and no change to the economy, exactly what is Burnham going to do differently?!
    You can meet the fiscal rules by promising new taxes after the election and increasing spending before the election, so it's not that onerous to meet the rules.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568
    Cookie said:

    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.

    +1 - for the Tory party to survive Reform needs to completely implode and I just don't see it...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,608
    I'm going for Reform as official opposition.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,533
    Cookie said:

    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.

    Yes, there really isn't anyone better than Badenoch, or at least anyone with a chance of the leadership.

    The Tories are in the relegation zone, their fate dependent on whether Farage implodes Reform. There is always a possibility as he is famously unpleasant to work with, but it is out of their hands.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,318

    rkrkrk said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Fair play to Burnham for not going populist on this.
    Nah, going populist is wrong but so is assuming only one set of arbitrary fiscal rules is suitable. The current set up doesn't work and we need to be able to invest more.
    The fiscal rules already create more space for investment as the binding rule relates to current spending, excluding investment. The rules are absolutely fine, the problems are a failure to grow the economy, higher global interest rates and relentless fiscal pressures caused by population ageing.
    It's all a facade. We produce predictions based on things like increasing fuel duty every year to show that we will balance the books in x years time. We never actually increase the fuel duty but the spreadsheet that says we will somehow keeps people happy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,608
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    Pro-EU Labour figures very disappointed by this as they had thought Burnham was running to prove a Rejoin candidate could win in Makerfield and Brexit could be reversed. “Shambles,” says one

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056376674040623451

    Words almost fail me ! Burnham could have handled this in a way which allowed him to look principled and at the same time moderated his pro EU stance in the leave voting constituency. He’s now trying to also piss off Green voters which he needs . And further down the line his u-turn allows Streeting to feel less pressure to allow a coronation as he can go to the membership which are pro EU .

    A lot of people were projecting a lot of hope onto Andy Burnham but he's still the same person who lost two leadership elections and failed to beat Red Ed Miliband and Jeremy fucking Corbyn.
    He's more experienced now. As the party seems determined to anoint him despite any late verbal blunders at this stage, we will have to hope that proves to be enough.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,608

    rkrkrk said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2056403137380917508

    ***EXCLUSIVE*** Andy Burnham fully rules out changing Rachel Reeves’ fiscal rules if he becomes PM

    At the weekend his team had left it open whether he might change them in future

    But tonight his spokesperson tells Bloomberg he is explicitly ruling out any changes to the existing fiscal rules

    AND crucially Burnham is now also ruling out exempting defence spending from the fiscal rules to spend more on the military

    Fair play to Burnham for not going populist on this.
    Nah, going populist is wrong but so is assuming only one set of arbitrary fiscal rules is suitable. The current set up doesn't work and we need to be able to invest more.
    The fiscal rules already create more space for investment as the binding rule relates to current spending, excluding investment. The rules are absolutely fine, the problems are a failure to grow the economy, higher global interest rates and relentless fiscal pressures caused by population ageing.
    It's all a facade. We produce predictions based on things like increasing fuel duty every year to show that we will balance the books in x years time. We never actually increase the fuel duty but the spreadsheet that says we will somehow keeps people happy.
    We're one step away from saying the chicken entrails show we are on the right economic track.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,571
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.

    +1 - for the Tory party to survive Reform needs to completely implode and I just don't see it...
    I think the Tories will be 4th biggest Party after Reform,, Lab, LD, in England at next GE. Maybe 5th after Greens.

    Tories 5th or 6th in Wales and 3rd at best in Scotland.

    Max 40 seats.

    I envisage massive tactical voting on centre left for around 330 ish

    Reform ball park 250 to 260. Mot enough with Tories to have power

    Nats would support Progressive Alliance if needed
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,045

    eek said:

    This is the shit we are having to put up with:

    "Plans for a solar farm across 35 hectares of land in Wakefield have been given the go-ahead despite objections.

    The 86-acre development will see panels installed across five parcels of green belt land at Owlers Farm, between Ossett and Kirkhamgate."

    And? It’s a use of farmland that is more profitable than farming atm
    And also doesn't entirely preclude its use as farmland - for instance sheep can graze (the grass does not need constant sunlight to grow) or you could house chicken or pigs etc. People need to be imaginative.

    However I always look at every roof in the land and this why not use those? And especially all those warehouses and industrial estates etc.
    So, why don't they ?

    Actually it is because sheep will chew through the cables within weeks and cattle will scratch their arses on the uprights from day one. No you generally can't put livestock in fields with solar panels. Oh, chickens will shit on them
    Actually the roofs is more sense, provided it is a new shed. Existing sheds aren't strong enough for the extra burden. But, it isn't straight forward and you can't run three phase to a shed, however big.
    I don't see why not. Industrial units are mainly just big sheds.

    As for garden sheds - they will be a 3 pin socket and balcony solar on the roof.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,045
    Brixian59 said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.

    +1 - for the Tory party to survive Reform needs to completely implode and I just don't see it...
    I think the Tories will be 4th biggest Party after Reform,, Lab, LD, in England at next GE. Maybe 5th after Greens.

    Tories 5th or 6th in Wales and 3rd at best in Scotland.

    Max 40 seats.

    I envisage massive tactical voting on centre left for around 330 ish

    Reform ball park 250 to 260. Mot enough with Tories to have power

    Nats would support Progressive Alliance if needed
    On balance I think Reform may go pop more quickly than that.

    But prediction is perilous.
  • rkrkrk said:

    Heard Burnham on TV while getting my haircut.

    Rather a negative speech I thought.

    And a fair bit of Southerner bashing which may play well in Manchester but seems a bit of a hostage to fortune if he has to win a nationwide election.

    Burnham's younger than Starmer, but by less than you might think; 56 rather than 63.

    His mental map of the country's politics is just as out-of-date, though. The typical Labour voter isn't an older northerner any more, they've got a degree, live in somewhere like Stevenage, do something in front of a computer screen as a job and would really like to buy a house and have children someday.

    Electorally, that ought to be brilliant because there are loads of people like that. But Labour are really struggling to come to terms with the realisation that their heritage voters are .. heritage.
    The average Labour voter has got a degree and lives in a slightly bleak, cramped new build near Hitchin and they get up at 6am to commute for 90 minutes into central London so that their taxes can pay for the millionaire First Lady of Sierra Leone to have a chic and cheap council flat in Southwark which is now occupied by her nepo children

    And yet, despite all this, they keep voting Labour. They deserve what they get
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,558
    Just to stress something here. Labour are not changing the PM because of policy direction. Ok it might lead to policy change (most likely a shift left within borrowing constraints) but that isn't what this is all about. The change is being made because the public have taken a visceral dislike to Keir Starmer. Andy Burnham is being embraced not because he's 'soft left' - or anything left - but because he polls miles better than any other big name Labour politician and he's up for doing it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,953
    Brixian59 said:

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    On thread - I'm happy to agree that a Conservative extinction is likely. But I could only see this as a failure of Kemi Badenoch if it was clear that someone else would do better. The best the Cons can hope for in the new political landscape is minor party status. It's implausible to think a different leader would be doing better. I find it unlikely either of the names sonetimes suggested here - Cleverly or Hunt - could be doung better.
    They've had their time, whoever is leader.

    +1 - for the Tory party to survive Reform needs to completely implode and I just don't see it...
    I think the Tories will be 4th biggest Party after Reform,, Lab, LD, in England at next GE. Maybe 5th after Greens.

    Tories 5th or 6th in Wales and 3rd at best in Scotland.

    Max 40 seats.

    I envisage massive tactical voting on centre left for around 330 ish

    Reform ball park 250 to 260. Mot enough with Tories to have power

    Nats would support Progressive Alliance if needed
    I think the Tories have a good chance of winning most seats at the next election if they can wait for Reform to lose popularity.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,652

    rkrkrk said:

    Heard Burnham on TV while getting my haircut.

    Rather a negative speech I thought.

    And a fair bit of Southerner bashing which may play well in Manchester but seems a bit of a hostage to fortune if he has to win a nationwide election.

    Burnham's younger than Starmer, but by less than you might think; 56 rather than 63.

    His mental map of the country's politics is just as out-of-date, though. The typical Labour voter isn't an older northerner any more, they've got a degree, live in somewhere like Stevenage, do something in front of a computer screen as a job and would really like to buy a house and have children someday.

    Electorally, that ought to be brilliant because there are loads of people like that. But Labour are really struggling to come to terms with the realisation that their heritage voters are .. heritage.
    The average Labour voter has got a degree and lives in a slightly bleak, cramped new build near Hitchin and they get up at 6am to commute for 90 minutes into central London so that their taxes can pay for the millionaire First Lady of Sierra Leone to have a chic and cheap council flat in Southwark which is now occupied by her nepo children

    And yet, despite all this, they keep voting Labour. They deserve what they get
    Sadly Kinabalu was unimpressed with you and William posting tweets related to it !!
This discussion has been closed.