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The polling that shows even Starmer could beat Reform at the next general election

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 15
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Technically 5. 403/81 = 4.97 (Needs to round down to 4) and Starmer as sitting PM doesn't need 81.
    But yes realistically 3 is pretty much the absolute max.
    I imagine that somebody like a Burnham who could get more than 81 you don't want to do a James Cleverly and play it too cute and find it blows up in your face.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    There’s definitely something in the idea that Manchester choose to elect a Manchester man for the PM. That will be very appetising IMHO.

    Green vote already looks like it’s on the way to collapse. So Burnham needs to make a push on immigration.

    Your regular reminder that Makerfield != Manchester.

    But your point arguably still holds - That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens elects a That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens man for PM.

    Burnham will struggle to make a push on immigration. It is one of his blindspots.
    I call those places Rugby League land.

    I once got into so much trouble for calling people from St Helens ‘plastic Scousers’.
    It is rugby league* land - these people care deeply about rugby league in a way much of the country doesn't really get - but this territory is even more specific than that. Wigan, Warrington and St. Helens are the medium sized rugby league towns between the big cities of Manchester and Liverpool, but I'm talking here about the small towns between the medium sized towns: Ashton-in-Makerfield, Hindley, Leigh**, Golborne, Newton-Le-Willows, Haydock. It's deeply inward looking. Everyone knows each other in a way that they don't quite in the medium-sized towns like Wigan.

    *though I think I am right that actually more people PLAY rugby union, and of course Orrell, which was briefly in rugby union's top division in the early years after the establishment of such things in the 80s, and supplied several England players - rugby league is something to watch. Baffling to me because to my eyes League is a rather less engaging and exciting game. Nowadays of course many kids play both - my daughter plays rugby on the fringes of this zone and many girls play rugby league on a Saturday and rugby union on a Sunday in the way that kids elsewhere will play football on a Saturday and rugby (union) on a Sunday.

    **granted Leigh has its own professional club but so chippy is Leigh about being overshadowed by big-city Wigan that I tentatively put it in this bracket.
    I was brought up to watch and play Rugby Union but now in the evening of my days I much prefer League. Too many stoppages and restarts in Union. League keeps going.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    The casting process for the new James Bond has officially begun, after years of anticipation and speculation about who will take over from Daniel Craig as 007.

    "The search for the next James Bond is under way," Amazon MGM Studios said in a statement, external.

    The only way the Labour right can stop Burnham becoming leader & PM. Make him James Bond.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,552

    This hotel - quite posh, 4 star, rather agreeable - is absolutely rammed. Close to 100% occupancy I suspect

    On a random Friday morning in May?

    https://thetempus.co.uk/

    Towns are handsome and well kept. Farms look fat and happy. I hear there may be pockets of poverty up here, as well. I hear talk of a place called “Teesside” whatever that is. But this bit of t’North has a quiet but deep prosperity

    Pleasing


    Friday....people "WFH" day where H stands for hotel.
    In the rural north they all go to stay at posh hotels on Friday? This is news to me but welcome news for hospitality
    I think again the k shaped economy. People on the upper end of the income scale have done very well over the past 5 years, might well have sold their homes and moved to a cheaper place and only expected in the office 2-3 days a week. I imagine all those on £99k a year have also pushed hard for more work life balance rather than take a pay rise. Thus they have money and opportunity to have extended weekends away.
    Northumberland is an interesting county, socially. In much of Britain, you might get something akin to a bell curve - most people in the middle, a few poor, a few rich - with the 'middle' landing in different places. Northumberland is a bit more bipolar - lots of quite poor people in places like Ashington, and quite a surprising amount of really quite rich people, including proper-old-money-rich. This is changing a bit - areas like Blyth are gradually changing from solidly working class mining towns to places for commuters to Newcastle to live, and the poor are not so poor as they were - but it's still always felt a slightly unusual mix to me.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    edited May 15

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,205
    edited May 15
    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    The casting process for the new James Bond has officially begun, after years of anticipation and speculation about who will take over from Daniel Craig as 007.

    "The search for the next James Bond is under way," Amazon MGM Studios said in a statement, external.

    It’s obviously going to be Andy Burnham.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,881

    God Save the King

    Amidst the whirl of politics, KC3 went to Golders Green and was almost mobbed by anxious but happy Jewish people. Grateful for his presence. Imagine a Labour prime minister trying to do this. Oh wait he did and was screamed at

    “Today, in response to a series of smaller attacks on Jews, our British monarch has just taken on a role as patron of the Community Security Trust. He has visited this site of an attempted massacre to shake hands with a traumatised and fearful Jewish community. He has, in short, behaved like a mensch. His visit tells a different story about how British institutions and leaders relate to this country’s Jewish community.”

    https://x.com/joshglancy/status/2054964695493136638?s=46

    He’s having a bloody good run at the moment and I will confess that my expectations were low. God save the King!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2055044952233525564
    Farage was claiming it was a reward for Brexit rather than a gift or inducement to stand yesterday.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Meanwhile, the Electoral Commission is investigating whether Robert Jenrick broke the law over a donation: https://www.ft.com/content/53e6f32b-0763-4a7f-b64f-a32045e5ebc6
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Farage and Polanski certainly do seem to march in tandem.

    I still think that, maybe, just maybe, they are figments of the protest vote and may fade as we approach the Big Vote. Then, again, Trump.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,205

    The casting process for the new James Bond has officially begun, after years of anticipation and speculation about who will take over from Daniel Craig as 007.

    "The search for the next James Bond is under way," Amazon MGM Studios said in a statement, external.

    It’s obviously going to be Andy Burnham.
    My wife says that when she thinks of Andy Burnham, Scott Tracey (of TB1) rather than James Bond comes to mind.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    I doubt most of the public think person-to-person gifts should be taxable at all. See inheritance tax.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,128
    edited May 15

    The casting process for the new James Bond has officially begun, after years of anticipation and speculation about who will take over from Daniel Craig as 007.

    "The search for the next James Bond is under way," Amazon MGM Studios said in a statement, external.

    It’s obviously going to be Andy Burnham.
    Morning, P.B

    Ed Miliband could be the first boffin bond. There's also Janet Philipson, who could be the firsr female Bond. I think the question really is whether Daniel Craig can delay the leadership election any longer.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman.
    FWIW I'm not sure its particularly clear cut either way. Kind of akin to an influencer getting unsolicited gifts which is a tax minefield.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2055044952233525564
    Farage was claiming it was a reward for Brexit rather than a gift or inducement to stand yesterday.
    Farage has already claimed two different explanations for the money. What will matter is what the various relevant authorities conclude was the real reason.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/-/council-of-europe-foreign-ministers-adopt-political-declaration-on-the-echr-and-migration

    Council of Europe (which includes the UK) agrees new declaration around ECHR and migration. Exactly the sort of action many people have been demanding.

    The link does not explain if this has any effect on the court. Do you know?

    If not, it's about as much "action" as a local council resolution on Gaza.
    The Uk gov link posted earlier looks a little more promising.
    We will have to wait and see what effect it has on the UK courts.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Brown got something like 300 MPs in the 2007 leadership election.

    I cannot see why similar won’t happen to Burnham.

    I agree. He'll win the by-election on 18th June.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Brown got something like 300 MPs in the 2007 leadership election.

    I cannot see why similar won’t happen to Burnham.

    I agree. He'll win the by-election on 18th June.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811
    Cookie said:

    This hotel - quite posh, 4 star, rather agreeable - is absolutely rammed. Close to 100% occupancy I suspect

    On a random Friday morning in May?

    https://thetempus.co.uk/

    Towns are handsome and well kept. Farms look fat and happy. I hear there may be pockets of poverty up here, as well. I hear talk of a place called “Teesside” whatever that is. But this bit of t’North has a quiet but deep prosperity

    Pleasing


    Friday....people "WFH" day where H stands for hotel.
    In the rural north they all go to stay at posh hotels on Friday? This is news to me but welcome news for hospitality
    I think again the k shaped economy. People on the upper end of the income scale have done very well over the past 5 years, might well have sold their homes and moved to a cheaper place and only expected in the office 2-3 days a week. I imagine all those on £99k a year have also pushed hard for more work life balance rather than take a pay rise. Thus they have money and opportunity to have extended weekends away.
    Northumberland is an interesting county, socially. In much of Britain, you might get something akin to a bell curve - most people in the middle, a few poor, a few rich - with the 'middle' landing in different places. Northumberland is a bit more bipolar - lots of quite poor people in places like Ashington, and quite a surprising amount of really quite rich people, including proper-old-money-rich. This is changing a bit - areas like Blyth are gradually changing from solidly working class mining towns to places for commuters to Newcastle to live, and the poor are not so poor as they were - but it's still always felt a slightly unusual mix to me.
    In last year's county council elections, it was a bit of an outlier, as the Tory vote held up and they emerged as largest party. Unusual for the NE.

    (More like the Scottish borders where, similarly, the Tories remain strong - though, obviously, the dynamic is different with the threat of the SNP uniting unionists behind the strongest unionist party)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,881

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Meanwhile, the Electoral Commission is investigating whether Robert Jenrick broke the law over a donation: https://www.ft.com/content/53e6f32b-0763-4a7f-b64f-a32045e5ebc6
    I only skimmed that story yesterday but it seemed to be that the donation had a “legitimate “ UK source but in fact had come from someone else furth of the UK. Unless there is evidence that Jenrick knew that this doesn’t seem to be his problem.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,205

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
    If Burnham wins the by-election, I can't see anyone other than him getting 81 nominations unless Starmer stands down. So we're most likely looking at a straight Starmer v Burnham membership ballot.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2055044952233525564
    Farage was claiming it was a reward for Brexit rather than a gift or inducement to stand yesterday.
    Farage has already claimed two different explanations for the money. What will matter is what the various relevant authorities conclude was the real reason.
    Do they have prove a reason or just the perception?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,593
    carnforth said:

    https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/-/council-of-europe-foreign-ministers-adopt-political-declaration-on-the-echr-and-migration

    Council of Europe (which includes the UK) agrees new declaration around ECHR and migration. Exactly the sort of action many people have been demanding.

    The link does not explain if this has any effect on the court. Do you know?

    If not, it's about as much "action" as a local council resolution on Gaza.
    You need to read the links linked to from the link.
    Here, for example, is the full text of the declaration.

    There's quite a lot of putting the court in its place in the text. And also, quite strong messages to domestic courts to apply restraint when applying the court's rulings.
    https://rm.coe.int/pdf/09125948802bc2cc

    For example, this bit on healthcare:

    ..Where an individual is being expelled or extradited, the quality of accessible healthcare in the receiving State should only give rise to a real risk of treatment contrary to Article 3 in very exceptional
    circumstances described in the Court’s case law. There is no obligation for the returning State to alleviate the disparities between its own healthcare system and the level of treatment existing in the receiving State.
    26. Where an individual is being expelled, the domestic courts and authorities in this context may benefit from further guidance on how to assess a range of individual socio-economic factors under Article 3 that may have a negative impact on that individual’s situation, but do not each in isolation amount to inhuman or degrading treatment, and on the role the general socioeconomic situation in the receiving country plays in that assessment.
    ...

    29. In light of the foregoing, caution should be exercised when applying case law of the Court, including by the domestic courts, concerning the situation in a State Party when assessing whether the expulsion or extradition of an individual to a non-State Party would violate a State’s obligations under Article 3 of theConvention. ..


    I think it quite significant, as it is a consensus of the member states pushing back (in diplomatic language)at what they fairly clearly see as court overreach, rather than just one of them complaining about a decision.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,128
    edited May 15

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
    If Burnham wins the by-election, I can't see anyone other than him getting 81 nominations unless Starmer stands down. So we're most likely looking at a straight Starmer v Burnham membership ballot.
    Miliband and Streeting have a fair bit of support.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811

    MaxPB said:

    God Save the King

    Amidst the whirl of politics, KC3 went to Golders Green and was almost mobbed by anxious but happy Jewish people. Grateful for his presence. Imagine a Labour prime minister trying to do this. Oh wait he did and was screamed at

    “Today, in response to a series of smaller attacks on Jews, our British monarch has just taken on a role as patron of the Community Security Trust. He has visited this site of an attempted massacre to shake hands with a traumatised and fearful Jewish community. He has, in short, behaved like a mensch. His visit tells a different story about how British institutions and leaders relate to this country’s Jewish community.”

    https://x.com/joshglancy/status/2054964695493136638?s=46

    Charles showing more leadership that Starmer in the US and at home right now. It must be very grating for Labour.
    Why would it be grating for Labour? The King is doing his job as head of state. His speech in the US will certainly have been written with substantial government input. Being able to do this kind of subtle diplomacy abroad and non partisan unifying stuff at home is precisely why having a constitutional monarchy is so great.
    Obvious point to make - but the monarchy is designed to be a unifying force - and it's certainly in its interests to be seen as such. Politicians, not so much.

    KCIII has always, and sensibly, made a point of reaching out to minorities, of whatever type. In general, this attention is greatly appreciated, as you can see by the line-up of beaming community reps at royal visits. Helps to bind the nation in a way which, say, a President Farage is unlikely to achieve. Of course, "national treasures", like David Attenborough might do equally well but these kind of people are invariably keen monarchists anyway.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    How dare anyone question Farage or indeed the £12m given to the party. You're all jealous. The REAL scandal is the free pair of geps given to Starmer. Bloody biased fake news media.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,024

    Cookie said:

    This hotel - quite posh, 4 star, rather agreeable - is absolutely rammed. Close to 100% occupancy I suspect

    On a random Friday morning in May?

    https://thetempus.co.uk/

    Towns are handsome and well kept. Farms look fat and happy. I hear there may be pockets of poverty up here, as well. I hear talk of a place called “Teesside” whatever that is. But this bit of t’North has a quiet but deep prosperity

    Pleasing


    Friday....people "WFH" day where H stands for hotel.
    In the rural north they all go to stay at posh hotels on Friday? This is news to me but welcome news for hospitality
    I think again the k shaped economy. People on the upper end of the income scale have done very well over the past 5 years, might well have sold their homes and moved to a cheaper place and only expected in the office 2-3 days a week. I imagine all those on £99k a year have also pushed hard for more work life balance rather than take a pay rise. Thus they have money and opportunity to have extended weekends away.
    Northumberland is an interesting county, socially. In much of Britain, you might get something akin to a bell curve - most people in the middle, a few poor, a few rich - with the 'middle' landing in different places. Northumberland is a bit more bipolar - lots of quite poor people in places like Ashington, and quite a surprising amount of really quite rich people, including proper-old-money-rich. This is changing a bit - areas like Blyth are gradually changing from solidly working class mining towns to places for commuters to Newcastle to live, and the poor are not so poor as they were - but it's still always felt a slightly unusual mix to me.
    In last year's county council elections, it was a bit of an outlier, as the Tory vote held up and they emerged as largest party. Unusual for the NE.

    (More like the Scottish borders where, similarly, the Tories remain strong - though, obviously, the dynamic is different with the threat of the SNP uniting unionists behind the strongest unionist party)
    Houses can cost in excess of £500k in Blyth now. The rate of change is massive, even in the last 13 years since I worked on a Blyth industrial estate. Likewise, the new trainline to Newcastle from Ashington will accelerate the gentrification of both Ashington and Newbiggin. It’s already happening.

    It wasn’t that long ago that Tory councillors cancelled the planned new County Hall in Ashington because they didn’t fancy commuting from Morpeth
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2055044952233525564
    Farage was claiming it was a reward for Brexit rather than a gift or inducement to stand yesterday.
    Payment for work done. That's taxable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,593
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    That will all be forgotten by this time next week. All of the regards who are going to vote for know he's a grifter and don't care.
    It won't.
    He's going to be dragged through the process if a Parliamentary standards enquiry, which will further highlight his twists and turns on the matter.

    Some of the retards ('regards' is a typo ?) won't care. But I doubt that group constitutes a third of the electorate.
  • Terrifying polling on Muslim views in France, UK, Germany

    Summarised here:

    Depending on the country of origin and destination:
    ~10-40% of Muslims are moderate & well integrated
    ~20-50% are conservative, religious, pious
    ~25% are fundamentalists
    ~Of which 15% (pp) are radical Islamists


    https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/2055024565428863144?s=46

    I’d love to be optimistic but in the face of these numbers it js essentially impossible. We are heading for some kind of reckoning
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    There’s definitely something in the idea that Manchester choose to elect a Manchester man for the PM. That will be very appetising IMHO.

    Green vote already looks like it’s on the way to collapse. So Burnham needs to make a push on immigration.

    Your regular reminder that Makerfield != Manchester.

    But your point arguably still holds - That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens elects a That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens man for PM.

    Burnham will struggle to make a push on immigration. It is one of his blindspots.
    I call those places Rugby League land.

    I once got into so much trouble for calling people from St Helens ‘plastic Scousers’.
    It is rugby league* land - these people care deeply about rugby league in a way much of the country doesn't really get - but this territory is even more specific than that. Wigan, Warrington and St. Helens are the medium sized rugby league towns between the big cities of Manchester and Liverpool, but I'm talking here about the small towns between the medium sized towns: Ashton-in-Makerfield, Hindley, Leigh**, Golborne, Newton-Le-Willows, Haydock. It's deeply inward looking. Everyone knows each other in a way that they don't quite in the medium-sized towns like Wigan.

    *though I think I am right that actually more people PLAY rugby union, and of course Orrell, which was briefly in rugby union's top division in the early years after the establishment of such things in the 80s, and supplied several England players - rugby league is something to watch. Baffling to me because to my eyes League is a rather less engaging and exciting game. Nowadays of course many kids play both - my daughter plays rugby on the fringes of this zone and many girls play rugby league on a Saturday and rugby union on a Sunday in the way that kids elsewhere will play football on a Saturday and rugby (union) on a Sunday.

    **granted Leigh has its own professional club but so chippy is Leigh about being overshadowed by big-city Wigan that I tentatively put it in this bracket.
    League lacks the complexity of union. There is no actual scrummaging, so no technique or correct size/shape players needed. No lineouts. All it is is endless one out runs (a bit like how England's Union team sometimes seems to play). And of course rare turnovers to the need to manufacture them after 6 attempts.

    Its hard to see what League has going for it, tbh. I've watched a couple of games in the flesh, and I'd argue its better than on TV, but Union knocks it out of the park, both live and on TV.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Meanwhile, the Electoral Commission is investigating whether Robert Jenrick broke the law over a donation: https://www.ft.com/content/53e6f32b-0763-4a7f-b64f-a32045e5ebc6
    I only skimmed that story yesterday but it seemed to be that the donation had a “legitimate “ UK source but in fact had come from someone else furth of the UK. Unless there is evidence that Jenrick knew that this doesn’t seem to be his problem.
    There is evidence that his wife knew. If his wife knew, that’s getting closer to him knowing.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    The casting process for the new James Bond has officially begun, after years of anticipation and speculation about who will take over from Daniel Craig as 007.

    "The search for the next James Bond is under way," Amazon MGM Studios said in a statement, external.

    There is a man who will shortly become available, well known for inspiring another great film hero (that lawyer chap in Bridget Jones). Any odds?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    Good morning everyone.

    A somewhat interesting piece in the Telegraph about "young female far-right influencers" glamming up the movement (this is the Telegraph !).

    There's quite a tone of being commercial as well as ideological, like Yaxley-Lennon. The alignment is generally more Restore than Reform, and one was banned from an event by Rupert Lowe. To my eye it is a kind of warmed-over Nick Griffin "smart and approachable" method. That is logical in an age defined by large screens emphasising the visual.

    There's also a "remigrate the Jews" thing (where to?), which is an echo of expulsions we used to do in Medieval times.

    There's also an "I'm proud of my Anglo-Saxon hair" (dark, long, frizzy), and I'm interested how she knew, since we have very little evidence as to what Anglo-Saxon hair was to the Anglo-Saxon; so that is more of an imagined past.

    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2e14f0066ad5277b
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,552
    edited May 15

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    In the same vein, I think dodginess is just as priced in for Polanski.

    To be clear, I'm not saying this is a good thing. I wish we as an electorate held Green and Reform politicians to the standards that we rightly hold Lab and Con politicians. But it does not appear that we do.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926
    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2055044952233525564
    Farage was claiming it was a reward for Brexit rather than a gift or inducement to stand yesterday.
    Farage has already claimed two different explanations for the money. What will matter is what the various relevant authorities conclude was the real reason.
    Do they have prove a reason or just the perception?
    Depends who “they” are. To have broken tax law, I presume they need to prove a reason. In terms of the money not being declared, that’s much easier and probably could just be perception.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,593

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    A bit of a slow burner but HMRC potentially going after Farage for tax avoidance could end up being very big news.

    Although, unlike with Rayner, GB News et al would totally ignore it.
    The ex GB News head of BBC News wouldn't be able to apply his thumb to the scale this time, though.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    There’s definitely something in the idea that Manchester choose to elect a Manchester man for the PM. That will be very appetising IMHO.

    Green vote already looks like it’s on the way to collapse. So Burnham needs to make a push on immigration.

    Your regular reminder that Makerfield != Manchester.

    But your point arguably still holds - That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens elects a That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens man for PM.

    Burnham will struggle to make a push on immigration. It is one of his blindspots.
    I call those places Rugby League land.

    I once got into so much trouble for calling people from St Helens ‘plastic Scousers’.
    It is rugby league* land - these people care deeply about rugby league in a way much of the country doesn't really get - but this territory is even more specific than that. Wigan, Warrington and St. Helens are the medium sized rugby league towns between the big cities of Manchester and Liverpool, but I'm talking here about the small towns between the medium sized towns: Ashton-in-Makerfield, Hindley, Leigh**, Golborne, Newton-Le-Willows, Haydock. It's deeply inward looking. Everyone knows each other in a way that they don't quite in the medium-sized towns like Wigan.

    *though I think I am right that actually more people PLAY rugby union, and of course Orrell, which was briefly in rugby union's top division in the early years after the establishment of such things in the 80s, and supplied several England players - rugby league is something to watch. Baffling to me because to my eyes League is a rather less engaging and exciting game. Nowadays of course many kids play both - my daughter plays rugby on the fringes of this zone and many girls play rugby league on a Saturday and rugby union on a Sunday in the way that kids elsewhere will play football on a Saturday and rugby (union) on a Sunday.

    **granted Leigh has its own professional club but so chippy is Leigh about being overshadowed by big-city Wigan that I tentatively put it in this bracket.
    I was brought up to watch and play Rugby Union but now in the evening of my days I much prefer League. Too many stoppages and restarts in Union. League keeps going.
    I think union does get bogged down sometimes. There is a particular curse at the moment of 'water' carriers onto the pitch at every conceivable moment, and an awful lot of minor injuries seem to happen (its a tough sport, but these are tough players). That said when its good, you cannot beat union. I'm a Bath season ticket holder and some of the games in the last three years have been the best sport I've ever seen. The level of play in the European Quarter Final against Northampton was Test Match standard. It was breathtakingly good.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,881

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Meanwhile, the Electoral Commission is investigating whether Robert Jenrick broke the law over a donation: https://www.ft.com/content/53e6f32b-0763-4a7f-b64f-a32045e5ebc6
    I only skimmed that story yesterday but it seemed to be that the donation had a “legitimate “ UK source but in fact had come from someone else furth of the UK. Unless there is evidence that Jenrick knew that this doesn’t seem to be his problem.
    There is evidence that his wife knew. If his wife knew, that’s getting closer to him knowing.
    Was his wife not a solicitor bound by client confidentiality and therefore couldn’t tell him? I really can’t stand the man. He’s repulsive. I’d love to be wrong but I don’t see this going anywhere.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Presumably as her son is now 18 she no longer has an interest in that property, so she can reclaim the additional stamp duty.
    If she has paid up and doesn't claim the refund then HMRC are £40k up
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    MaxPB said:

    God Save the King

    Amidst the whirl of politics, KC3 went to Golders Green and was almost mobbed by anxious but happy Jewish people. Grateful for his presence. Imagine a Labour prime minister trying to do this. Oh wait he did and was screamed at

    “Today, in response to a series of smaller attacks on Jews, our British monarch has just taken on a role as patron of the Community Security Trust. He has visited this site of an attempted massacre to shake hands with a traumatised and fearful Jewish community. He has, in short, behaved like a mensch. His visit tells a different story about how British institutions and leaders relate to this country’s Jewish community.”

    https://x.com/joshglancy/status/2054964695493136638?s=46

    Charles showing more leadership that Starmer in the US and at home right now. It must be very grating for Labour.
    Why would it be grating for Labour? The King is doing his job as head of state. His speech in the US will certainly have been written with substantial government input. Being able to do this kind of subtle diplomacy abroad and non partisan unifying stuff at home is precisely why having a constitutional monarchy is so great.
    Obvious point to make - but the monarchy is designed to be a unifying force - and it's certainly in its interests to be seen as such. Politicians, not so much.

    KCIII has always, and sensibly, made a point of reaching out to minorities, of whatever type. In general, this attention is greatly appreciated, as you can see by the line-up of beaming community reps at royal visits. Helps to bind the nation in a way which, say, a President Farage is unlikely to achieve. Of course, "national treasures", like David Attenborough might do equally well but these kind of people are invariably keen monarchists anyway.
    I never liked Prince Charles. I regard him as not particularly bright, and apparently he can be difficult. However I think part of his issues was waiting for the main gig for 50 years. He seems to have become brilliant at being the monarch, and I can respect him for that, even though I am a republican at heart.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 11,128
    edited May 15

    Terrifying polling on Muslim views in France, UK, Germany

    Summarised here:

    Depending on the country of origin and destination:
    ~10-40% of Muslims are moderate & well integrated
    ~20-50% are conservative, religious, pious
    ~25% are fundamentalists
    ~Of which 15% (pp) are radical Islamists


    https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/2055024565428863144?s=46

    I’d love to be optimistic but in the face of these numbers it js essentially impossible. We are heading for some kind of reckoning

    Allthoigh those figures acrually give the majority as not beimg either fundamentalist, or radical. That is several millilon people there, who can also act as facilitators with wider siciety.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935
    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That doesn't follow, of course you can buy a house with a true gift (if it is big enough of course, or the house small enough I suppose).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Meanwhile, the Electoral Commission is investigating whether Robert Jenrick broke the law over a donation: https://www.ft.com/content/53e6f32b-0763-4a7f-b64f-a32045e5ebc6
    I only skimmed that story yesterday but it seemed to be that the donation had a “legitimate “ UK source but in fact had come from someone else furth of the UK. Unless there is evidence that Jenrick knew that this doesn’t seem to be his problem.
    There is evidence that his wife knew. If his wife knew, that’s getting closer to him knowing.
    Was his wife not a solicitor bound by client confidentiality and therefore couldn’t tell him? I really can’t stand the man. He’s repulsive. I’d love to be wrong but I don’t see this going anywhere.
    That’s the claim being made. I don’t know how arguable that is.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
    If Burnham wins the by-election, I can't see anyone other than him getting 81 nominations unless Starmer stands down. So we're most likely looking at a straight Starmer v Burnham membership ballot.
    Miliband and Streeting have a fair bit of support.
    Miliband won't stand against Burnham. He'll back him and probably be hoping for CoE. But Streeting is different matter. Streeting v Burnham is possible IMO. It would be that or a Burnham coronation.

    Unless Burnham loses the byelection - which he might - in which case I think we're looking at Streeting v Miliband or Rayner.

    Despite what he says I don't think Starmer will run in any leadership contest if it comes to it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    edited May 15
    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    edited May 15
    For anyone wanting a completely inconsequential 5 minutes, American reacts to Episode One of "The Flumps".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dehKY5fCk0g

    (The previous 4 were Caption Pugwash, the Wombles. the Clangers and Bagpuss.)_
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,593

    I think some of you are overthinking this. Why are Reform smashing away at Labour? Why are the Greens smashing away at Labour? Because people want *change*. They voted for that in 2024 and didn't get it. That's why they are incandescent.

    So on paper, Makerfield looks a risk. Reform sniping away. The Greens.

    No. Why Makerfield? Because Burnham used to be the MP for part of it and lives there. The local connection, plus *its Andy Burnham* and he isn't remotely under threat.

    Whats more, I expect that he is going to run the kind of by-election campaign we rarely see. Not "I want to be a Labour MP and bring Labour's program to this seat". It will be "I am the program".

    And that program will be change. He will win the by-election comfortably, and then he wins the leadership by proclamation because nobody else will get to 81 names.

    I agree with most of that, but I think there will be a contest, as it will suit Burnham to be seen to win.
    For much the same reasons he picked a not totally safe seat for the by election.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 15

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    There’s definitely something in the idea that Manchester choose to elect a Manchester man for the PM. That will be very appetising IMHO.

    Green vote already looks like it’s on the way to collapse. So Burnham needs to make a push on immigration.

    Your regular reminder that Makerfield != Manchester.

    But your point arguably still holds - That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens elects a That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens man for PM.

    Burnham will struggle to make a push on immigration. It is one of his blindspots.
    I call those places Rugby League land.

    I once got into so much trouble for calling people from St Helens ‘plastic Scousers’.
    It is rugby league* land - these people care deeply about rugby league in a way much of the country doesn't really get - but this territory is even more specific than that. Wigan, Warrington and St. Helens are the medium sized rugby league towns between the big cities of Manchester and Liverpool, but I'm talking here about the small towns between the medium sized towns: Ashton-in-Makerfield, Hindley, Leigh**, Golborne, Newton-Le-Willows, Haydock. It's deeply inward looking. Everyone knows each other in a way that they don't quite in the medium-sized towns like Wigan.

    *though I think I am right that actually more people PLAY rugby union, and of course Orrell, which was briefly in rugby union's top division in the early years after the establishment of such things in the 80s, and supplied several England players - rugby league is something to watch. Baffling to me because to my eyes League is a rather less engaging and exciting game. Nowadays of course many kids play both - my daughter plays rugby on the fringes of this zone and many girls play rugby league on a Saturday and rugby union on a Sunday in the way that kids elsewhere will play football on a Saturday and rugby (union) on a Sunday.

    **granted Leigh has its own professional club but so chippy is Leigh about being overshadowed by big-city Wigan that I tentatively put it in this bracket.
    I was brought up to watch and play Rugby Union but now in the evening of my days I much prefer League. Too many stoppages and restarts in Union. League keeps going.
    I think union does get bogged down sometimes. There is a particular curse at the moment of 'water' carriers onto the pitch at every conceivable moment, and an awful lot of minor injuries seem to happen (its a tough sport, but these are tough players). That said when its good, you cannot beat union. I'm a Bath season ticket holder and some of the games in the last three years have been the best sport I've ever seen. The level of play in the European Quarter Final against Northampton was Test Match standard. It was breathtakingly good.
    My feeling is that union used to be very turgid affair. I was brought up watching league and playing mostly union (had a go at league and really enjoyed it). In the early years of Super League, really exciting, amazing players like Robinson, Offiah, Tuigamala, made for fantastic spectacle.

    However, the rule changes that have been introduced into union have revolutionised the game (at least below the international level*), where as league defensive tactics appear to have go so good it is really hard to score.

    In the Gallagher Premiership the likes of Northampton and Bristol play incredibly attractive rugby and pretty much nailed on games with them playing will run up cricket scores. Speaking of which it is Northampton vs Bristol this evening albeit Bristol suffering terrible injury losses will probably mean its a fairly straight forward win for Northampton.

    * international level appears to struggle a bit with elite defenses and too much box kicking to try and break up those set defensive lines. But even there, the recent rule changes stopping blocking off challenges for the kick has led to more excitement.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    Expectations for Charles were quite low, so it's been easier for him to exceed them. William, on the other hand, there appear to be quite high expectations for him so he may have a tougher time of it when he takes over.
  • Terrifying polling on Muslim views in France, UK, Germany

    Summarised here:

    Depending on the country of origin and destination:
    ~10-40% of Muslims are moderate & well integrated
    ~20-50% are conservative, religious, pious
    ~25% are fundamentalists
    ~Of which 15% (pp) are radical Islamists


    https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/2055024565428863144?s=46

    I’d love to be optimistic but in the face of these numbers it js essentially impossible. We are heading for some kind of reckoning

    The way you’ve done the bullet points surely has to be misleading on purpose
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    MaxPB said:

    God Save the King

    Amidst the whirl of politics, KC3 went to Golders Green and was almost mobbed by anxious but happy Jewish people. Grateful for his presence. Imagine a Labour prime minister trying to do this. Oh wait he did and was screamed at

    “Today, in response to a series of smaller attacks on Jews, our British monarch has just taken on a role as patron of the Community Security Trust. He has visited this site of an attempted massacre to shake hands with a traumatised and fearful Jewish community. He has, in short, behaved like a mensch. His visit tells a different story about how British institutions and leaders relate to this country’s Jewish community.”

    https://x.com/joshglancy/status/2054964695493136638?s=46

    Charles showing more leadership that Starmer in the US and at home right now. It must be very grating for Labour.
    Why would it be grating for Labour? The King is doing his job as head of state. His speech in the US will certainly have been written with substantial government input. Being able to do this kind of subtle diplomacy abroad and non partisan unifying stuff at home is precisely why having a constitutional monarchy is so great.
    Obvious point to make - but the monarchy is designed to be a unifying force - and it's certainly in its interests to be seen as such. Politicians, not so much.

    KCIII has always, and sensibly, made a point of reaching out to minorities, of whatever type. In general, this attention is greatly appreciated, as you can see by the line-up of beaming community reps at royal visits. Helps to bind the nation in a way which, say, a President Farage is unlikely to achieve. Of course, "national treasures", like David Attenborough might do equally well but these kind of people are invariably keen monarchists anyway.
    I never liked Prince Charles. I regard him as not particularly bright, and apparently he can be difficult. However I think part of his issues was waiting for the main gig for 50 years. He seems to have become brilliant at being the monarch, and I can respect him for that, even though I am a republican at heart.
    Outlier view, I know, but I think he's an upgrade on the previous monarch.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    MaxPB said:

    God Save the King

    Amidst the whirl of politics, KC3 went to Golders Green and was almost mobbed by anxious but happy Jewish people. Grateful for his presence. Imagine a Labour prime minister trying to do this. Oh wait he did and was screamed at

    “Today, in response to a series of smaller attacks on Jews, our British monarch has just taken on a role as patron of the Community Security Trust. He has visited this site of an attempted massacre to shake hands with a traumatised and fearful Jewish community. He has, in short, behaved like a mensch. His visit tells a different story about how British institutions and leaders relate to this country’s Jewish community.”

    https://x.com/joshglancy/status/2054964695493136638?s=46

    Charles showing more leadership that Starmer in the US and at home right now. It must be very grating for Labour.
    Why would it be grating for Labour? The King is doing his job as head of state. His speech in the US will certainly have been written with substantial government input. Being able to do this kind of subtle diplomacy abroad and non partisan unifying stuff at home is precisely why having a constitutional monarchy is so great.
    Obvious point to make - but the monarchy is designed to be a unifying force - and it's certainly in its interests to be seen as such. Politicians, not so much.

    KCIII has always, and sensibly, made a point of reaching out to minorities, of whatever type. In general, this attention is greatly appreciated, as you can see by the line-up of beaming community reps at royal visits. Helps to bind the nation in a way which, say, a President Farage is unlikely to achieve. Of course, "national treasures", like David Attenborough might do equally well but these kind of people are invariably keen monarchists anyway.
    I never liked Prince Charles. I regard him as not particularly bright, and apparently he can be difficult. However I think part of his issues was waiting for the main gig for 50 years. He seems to have become brilliant at being the monarch, and I can respect him for that, even though I am a republican at heart.
    Yes. I've heard a story of his difficulty while he was Prince of Wales. And we all remember him complaining about the bloody pen.

    But he's doing the main job well.

    Like you I'm instinctively republican - "hereditary monarchy is a silly idea," as my mother puts it - but you have to give credit where it's due, as it is with KCIII.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,625
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    That will all be forgotten by this time next week. All of the regards who are going to vote for know he's a grifter and don't care.
    It won't.
    He's going to be dragged through the process if a Parliamentary standards enquiry, which will further highlight his twists and turns on the matter.

    Some of the retards ('regards' is a typo ?) won't care. But I doubt that group constitutes a third of the electorate.
    Sorry, I forgot the cultural literacy of the vast majority on here ends at 2007.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/regarded
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
    If Burnham wins the by-election, I can't see anyone other than him getting 81 nominations unless Starmer stands down. So we're most likely looking at a straight Starmer v Burnham membership ballot.
    If he wins, the momentum will be hurricane-force. Labour folk will absolutely love Burnham taking down Reform, and it will give hope to the hundreds of MPs at risk.

    I wonder if Starmer will swallow his pride, recognise the inevitable, and attempt a dignified handover.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    A gift to a politician is very different from a gift father>son to facilitate a house purchase.

    If the guy gave Farage £5m, then there’s a whole load of pertinent questions to be asked.
  • Terrifying polling on Muslim views in France, UK, Germany

    Summarised here:

    Depending on the country of origin and destination:
    ~10-40% of Muslims are moderate & well integrated
    ~20-50% are conservative, religious, pious
    ~25% are fundamentalists
    ~Of which 15% (pp) are radical Islamists


    https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/2055024565428863144?s=46

    I’d love to be optimistic but in the face of these numbers it js essentially impossible. We are heading for some kind of reckoning

    The way you’ve done the bullet points surely has to be misleading on purpose
    I didn’t do them. The tweeter did. Go look at the actual data in the thread. It’s horrifying
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    That will all be forgotten by this time next week. All of the regards who are going to vote for know he's a grifter and don't care.
    It won't.
    He's going to be dragged through the process if a Parliamentary standards enquiry, which will further highlight his twists and turns on the matter.

    Some of the retards ('regards' is a typo ?) won't care. But I doubt that group constitutes a third of the electorate.
    Sorry, I forgot the cultural literacy of the vast majority on here ends at 2007.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/regarded
    Ah, as in that t*sser has heavily regarded the ignition on his Merc AMG?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    Foss said:

    Expectations for Charles were quite low, so it's been easier for him to exceed them. William, on the other hand, there appear to be quite high expectations for him so he may have a tougher time of it when he takes over.

    William seems, understandably, to be deeply affected by the contribution the Press made to the death of his mother, and some of the misery of her life. There's a risk that he'll be a reclusive monarch. But I think only a small risk.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,928

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    Meanwhile, the Electoral Commission is investigating whether Robert Jenrick broke the law over a donation: https://www.ft.com/content/53e6f32b-0763-4a7f-b64f-a32045e5ebc6
    Slight frustration: why does this come 2 years later? Grrr.

    I'm down on OFCOM at the moment. My MP gets 100k per annum for presenting a TV show, which I think is outside the OFCOM rules. But it's a touch tricky to ask him to lean on OFCOM to make them enforce their rules, when it could cost him more than his MP basic salary, which is already very generous).

    ( @Bondgezou - you were correct on Hackney the other day. I did correct rapidly, but I mixed Hackney with another Green Borough where they had a small margin as largest party.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 15
    I see Walter Titty has got himself in a bit of a mess again about whether he voted.

    Are Zack and Nige in a competition on who can tell the most half truths?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,625
    Dopermean said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    That will all be forgotten by this time next week. All of the regards who are going to vote for know he's a grifter and don't care.
    It won't.
    He's going to be dragged through the process if a Parliamentary standards enquiry, which will further highlight his twists and turns on the matter.

    Some of the retards ('regards' is a typo ?) won't care. But I doubt that group constitutes a third of the electorate.
    Sorry, I forgot the cultural literacy of the vast majority on here ends at 2007.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/regarded
    Ah, as in that t*sser has heavily regarded the ignition on his Merc AMG?
    Traditionally already regarded way past optimum on most AMGs for NOx emissions reasons.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    There’s definitely something in the idea that Manchester choose to elect a Manchester man for the PM. That will be very appetising IMHO.

    Green vote already looks like it’s on the way to collapse. So Burnham needs to make a push on immigration.

    Your regular reminder that Makerfield != Manchester.

    But your point arguably still holds - That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens elects a That-vague-bit-of-small-towns-between-Wigan-Warrington-and-St-Helens man for PM.

    Burnham will struggle to make a push on immigration. It is one of his blindspots.
    I call those places Rugby League land.

    I once got into so much trouble for calling people from St Helens ‘plastic Scousers’.
    It is rugby league* land - these people care deeply about rugby league in a way much of the country doesn't really get - but this territory is even more specific than that. Wigan, Warrington and St. Helens are the medium sized rugby league towns between the big cities of Manchester and Liverpool, but I'm talking here about the small towns between the medium sized towns: Ashton-in-Makerfield, Hindley, Leigh**, Golborne, Newton-Le-Willows, Haydock. It's deeply inward looking. Everyone knows each other in a way that they don't quite in the medium-sized towns like Wigan.

    *though I think I am right that actually more people PLAY rugby union, and of course Orrell, which was briefly in rugby union's top division in the early years after the establishment of such things in the 80s, and supplied several England players - rugby league is something to watch. Baffling to me because to my eyes League is a rather less engaging and exciting game. Nowadays of course many kids play both - my daughter plays rugby on the fringes of this zone and many girls play rugby league on a Saturday and rugby union on a Sunday in the way that kids elsewhere will play football on a Saturday and rugby (union) on a Sunday.

    **granted Leigh has its own professional club but so chippy is Leigh about being overshadowed by big-city Wigan that I tentatively put it in this bracket.
    I was brought up to watch and play Rugby Union but now in the evening of my days I much prefer League. Too many stoppages and restarts in Union. League keeps going.
    I think union does get bogged down sometimes. There is a particular curse at the moment of 'water' carriers onto the pitch at every conceivable moment, and an awful lot of minor injuries seem to happen (its a tough sport, but these are tough players). That said when its good, you cannot beat union. I'm a Bath season ticket holder and some of the games in the last three years have been the best sport I've ever seen. The level of play in the European Quarter Final against Northampton was Test Match standard. It was breathtakingly good.
    My feeling is that union used to be very turgid affair. I was brought up watching league and playing mostly union (had a go at league and really enjoyed it). In the early years of Super League, really exciting, amazing players like Robinson, Offiah, Tuigamala, made for fantastic spectacle.

    However, the rule changes that have been introduced into union have revolutionised the game (at least below the international level*), where as league defensive tactics appear to have go so good it is really hard to score.

    In the Gallagher Premiership the likes of Northampton and Bristol play incredibly attractive rugby and pretty much nailed on games with them playing will run up cricket scores. Speaking of which it is Northampton vs Bristol this evening albeit Bristol suffering terrible injury losses will probably mean its a fairly straight forward win for Northampton.

    * international level appears to struggle a bit with elite defenses and too much box kicking to try and break up those set defensive lines. But even there, the recent rule changes stopping blocking off challenges for the kick has led to more excitement.
    Northampton are super sexy when running the ball. I think they will win the Prem this year (having seen them at Bath twice). Bath are a little back from where they were last year.

    If all internationals were as open as France vs England it would be great. I have just a suspicion that as the moment the laws are favouring offence a bit much and we are routinely seeing 45 vs 38 etc. The danger is it becomes a bit too much like basketball.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,593
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    That will all be forgotten by this time next week. All of the regards who are going to vote for know he's a grifter and don't care.
    It won't.
    He's going to be dragged through the process if a Parliamentary standards enquiry, which will further highlight his twists and turns on the matter.

    Some of the retards ('regards' is a typo ?) won't care. But I doubt that group constitutes a third of the electorate.
    Sorry, I forgot the cultural literacy of the vast majority on here ends at 2007.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/regarded
    A barbarous coinage.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,166
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    A gift to a politician is very different from a gift father>son to facilitate a house purchase.

    If the guy gave Farage £5m, then there’s a whole load of pertinent questions to be asked.
    Yes. I need to know, because I am very willing to perform (almost) all the same services for the same fee.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    Nigelb said:

    I think some of you are overthinking this. Why are Reform smashing away at Labour? Why are the Greens smashing away at Labour? Because people want *change*. They voted for that in 2024 and didn't get it. That's why they are incandescent.

    So on paper, Makerfield looks a risk. Reform sniping away. The Greens.

    No. Why Makerfield? Because Burnham used to be the MP for part of it and lives there. The local connection, plus *its Andy Burnham* and he isn't remotely under threat.

    Whats more, I expect that he is going to run the kind of by-election campaign we rarely see. Not "I want to be a Labour MP and bring Labour's program to this seat". It will be "I am the program".

    And that program will be change. He will win the by-election comfortably, and then he wins the leadership by proclamation because nobody else will get to 81 names.

    I agree with most of that, but I think there will be a contest, as it will suit Burnham to be seen to win.
    For much the same reasons he picked a not totally safe seat for the by election.
    He had no choice . It was the only seat available to him .
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,142

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
    If Burnham wins the by-election, I can't see anyone other than him getting 81 nominations unless Starmer stands down. So we're most likely looking at a straight Starmer v Burnham membership ballot.
    If he wins, the momentum will be hurricane-force. Labour folk will absolutely love Burnham taking down Reform, and it will give hope to the hundreds of MPs at risk.

    I wonder if Starmer will swallow his pride, recognise the inevitable, and attempt a dignified handover.
    Why does Burnham have this reputation of getting stuff done? What has he actually done in national politics? I just don’t get this obsession with Burnham? Maybe I am missing something? Genuinely puzzled…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170
    murali_s said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    NEW: Allies of Wes Streeting confirm for the first time that he will stand in a future Labour leadership contest to replace Keir Starmer as PM.

    One told HuffPost UK: "He has the numbers and will be a candidate when there’s a contest.”

    Supporters of Keir Starmer had claimed Streeting had barely half the 81 MPs he needs to mount a challenge.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/2055212428401549752?s=20

    Am I right in thinking everybody who wants to stand need 81 MPs? So there is really only room for 3 candidates?
    Starmer doesn't need 81 MPs but anyone else does, yes.
    If Burnham wins the by-election, I can't see anyone other than him getting 81 nominations unless Starmer stands down. So we're most likely looking at a straight Starmer v Burnham membership ballot.
    If he wins, the momentum will be hurricane-force. Labour folk will absolutely love Burnham taking down Reform, and it will give hope to the hundreds of MPs at risk.

    I wonder if Starmer will swallow his pride, recognise the inevitable, and attempt a dignified handover.
    Why does Burnham have this reputation of getting stuff done? What has he actually done in national politics? I just don’t get this obsession with Burnham? Maybe I am missing something? Genuinely puzzled…
    People cite Manchesters economic performance (outpacing the rest of the UK) and that he seems to have broad appeal (he has reached out beyond Labour).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    edited May 15

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
    There's an annual threshold on gifts that are exempt from inheritance tax if the giver dies within seven years of the gift being given.

    So, if I give my daughter a gift of £1,000 this year and die next year she won't pay any inheritance tax on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die next year then there will be inheritance tax* to pay on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die in 2034 then there's no inheritance tax on the gift.

    * Actually not, because I live in Ireland, and there's no inheritance tax in Ireland, but instead a tax on the recipient, which means that gifts are liable for tax, with a variety of allowances depending on who you receive the gift from. This means my daughter's inheritance from me will escape tax (my estate won't pay tax and she won't pay tax either) but any inheritance I receive from my Dad will be taxed twice, if the amounts are large enough (once on the estate in Britain, and again on my receipt in Ireland. I should probably let my Dad know so he can pass most of it on to my daughter directly).
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,166
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    That will all be forgotten by this time next week. All of the regards who are going to vote for know he's a grifter and don't care.
    It won't.
    He's going to be dragged through the process if a Parliamentary standards enquiry, which will further highlight his twists and turns on the matter.

    Some of the retards ('regards' is a typo ?) won't care. But I doubt that group constitutes a third of the electorate.
    Sorry, I forgot the cultural literacy of the vast majority on here ends at 2007.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/regarded
    I will happily engage with Gen Z culture, should they create some.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
    Not a limit per se, but inheritance tax comes into play above £x if the donor lives less than 7 years. Think the donor lives in Thailand and may be tax resident there so no idea if that would apply here.
  • Terrifying polling on Muslim views in France, UK, Germany

    Summarised here:

    Depending on the country of origin and destination:
    ~10-40% of Muslims are moderate & well integrated
    ~20-50% are conservative, religious, pious
    ~25% are fundamentalists
    ~Of which 15% (pp) are radical Islamists


    https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/2055024565428863144?s=46

    I’d love to be optimistic but in the face of these numbers it js essentially impossible. We are heading for some kind of reckoning

    Allthoigh those figures acrually give the majority as not beimg either fundamentalist, or radical. That is several millilon people there, who can also act as facilitators with wider siciety.
    The data is actually worse than I expected. Only a minority are moderate/integrated. Between 60-90% are either conservative, fundamentalist or Islamist. And the Islamist number - 15% - equates to millions across Europe

    To realise how bad this is just look at Northern Ireland during the Troubles. The number of active violent radicals was always tiny. A few thousand at most. But they relied upon a solid minority of Catholics willing to be passive enablers. Hiding, ignoring, excusing

    These Muslim numbers on a percentage basis might be worse. And of course the overall totals are enormous

    I see this going two ways

    1. The white majorities elect populist right but democratic parties that slowly but humanely persuade more radical Muslims to leave (banning halal, the burqa, closing radical mosques etc). People will naturally go to more amenable societies

    2. Actual violence like Ulster. As predicted by academics like David Betz
  • Mr Burnham, make your first policy masts up to 30m in height as PD
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908

    Mr Burnham, make your first policy masts up to 30m in height as PD

    Given how roughshod mobile phone companies have been putting masts up - nope you will put them in stupid places without any thought.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,305

    Terrifying polling on Muslim views in France, UK, Germany

    Summarised here:

    Depending on the country of origin and destination:
    ~10-40% of Muslims are moderate & well integrated
    ~20-50% are conservative, religious, pious
    ~25% are fundamentalists
    ~Of which 15% (pp) are radical Islamists


    https://x.com/tomaspueyo/status/2055024565428863144?s=46

    I’d love to be optimistic but in the face of these numbers it js essentially impossible. We are heading for some kind of reckoning

    The way you’ve done the bullet points surely has to be misleading on purpose
    The click through to the detailed results is very interesting and for the most part fairly written up, though possibly with some over interpretation in places. There are concerning and encouraging aspects and I think it gives a decent picture overall. Definitely worth a look.
  • eek said:

    Mr Burnham, make your first policy masts up to 30m in height as PD

    Given how roughshod mobile phone companies have been putting masts up - nope you will put them in stupid places without any thought.
    Gibberish. You can’t put up a new site without planning and approval.

    In any case, we make it far too difficult. And if you want fewer masts, allow existing ones to be taller.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,649

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    We can safely say Farage wasn't being "careless" in recieving the £5 million from the foreign crypto trader, which is Neidle's allegation against Rayner contrary to the HMRC finding.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
    There's an annual threshold on gifts that are exempt from inheritance tax if the giver dies within seven years of the gift being given.

    So, if I give my daughter a gift of £1,000 this year and die next year she won't pay any inheritance tax on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die next year then there will be inheritance tax* to pay on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die in 2034 then there's no inheritance tax on the gift.

    * Actually not, because I live in Ireland, and there's no inheritance tax in Ireland, but instead a tax on the recipient, which means that gifts are liable for tax, with a variety of allowances depending on who you receive the gift from. This means my daughter's inheritance from me will escape tax (my estate won't pay tax and she won't pay tax either) but any inheritance I receive from my Dad will be taxed twice, if the amounts are large enough (once on the estate in Britain, and again on my receipt in Ireland. I should probably let my Dad know so he can pass most of it on to my daughter directly).
    In addition there are also gifts exempt from inheritance tax:

    £3k per year per donor
    £250 for as many people as you like
    Marriage gifts (£1k-£5k depending on relationship to couple)
    Regular gifts out of normal expenditure (not from savings/capital)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,649
    edited May 15
    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    We can safely say Farage wasn't being "careless" in recieving the £5 million from the foreign crypto trader, which is Neidle's allegation against Rayner contrary to the HMRC finding.
    And on that £5 million:

    crucial context:

    Peter Mandelson was sacked from the first New Labour government for having a £373,000 *loan* (not a gift) from a Labour colleague (Geoffrey Robinson) to buy a house


    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mlsq52mvj22r

    If you totted up the sums for every financial scandal in British politics (£2k per parliamentary question for cash-for-questions, £200k for Johnson’s No 10 renovation, the cost of that very nice campervan) even with second tier stuff like Rayner and Polanski, would you get close to £5mn *in total*?

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3mluvbvsru22m

    And add further context the £5 million is the only bribe to Farage that we know about. His main response so far is to complain about a data breach.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    We can safely say Farage wasn't being "careless" in recieving the £5 million from the foreign crypto trader, which is Neidle's allegation against Rayner contrary to the HMRC finding.
    And on that £5 million:

    crucial context:

    Peter Mandelson was sacked from the first New Labour government for having a £373,000 *loan* (not a gift) from a Labour colleague (Geoffrey Robinson) to buy a house


    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mlsq52mvj22r

    If you totted up the sums for every financial scandal in British politics (£2k per parliamentary question for cash-for-questions, £200k for Johnson’s No 10 renovation, the cost of that very nice campervan) even with second tier stuff like Rayner and Polanski, would you get close to £5mn *in total*?

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3mluvbvsru22m
    It didn't stop that Mandelson fellow from having a long career at the top of politics though......
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,331
    edited May 15
    carnforth said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    I doubt most of the public think person-to-person gifts should be taxable at all. See inheritance tax.
    IANAA but aiui person to person gifts are not taxable at all so the public is right. Farage's problem is being caught in a pincer movement between HMRC if it was payment and Parliamentary standards even if it was a gift, and if you can have a 3-way pincer, the wider public who think it came in a brown envelope. A further complication is the donor might be subject to different laws abroad.

    ETA inheritance tax is a separate issue.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,331

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
    There's an annual threshold on gifts that are exempt from inheritance tax if the giver dies within seven years of the gift being given.

    So, if I give my daughter a gift of £1,000 this year and die next year she won't pay any inheritance tax on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die next year then there will be inheritance tax* to pay on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die in 2034 then there's no inheritance tax on the gift.

    * Actually not, because I live in Ireland, and there's no inheritance tax in Ireland, but instead a tax on the recipient, which means that gifts are liable for tax, with a variety of allowances depending on who you receive the gift from. This means my daughter's inheritance from me will escape tax (my estate won't pay tax and she won't pay tax either) but any inheritance I receive from my Dad will be taxed twice, if the amounts are large enough (once on the estate in Britain, and again on my receipt in Ireland. I should probably let my Dad know so he can pass most of it on to my daughter directly).
    I have the same issue with a French beneficiary but I'll be dead then so not my problem!
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908
    edited May 15

    eek said:

    Mr Burnham, make your first policy masts up to 30m in height as PD

    Given how roughshod mobile phone companies have been putting masts up - nope you will put them in stupid places without any thought.
    Gibberish. You can’t put up a new site without planning and approval.

    In any case, we make it far too difficult. And if you want fewer masts, allow existing ones to be taller.
    You were asking for PD (Permitted Development) rights - which means bypassing planning as you well know.

    So not gibberish - you are now talking about something utterly different from what your original post is about...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,523

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
    There's an annual threshold on gifts that are exempt from inheritance tax if the giver dies within seven years of the gift being given.

    So, if I give my daughter a gift of £1,000 this year and die next year she won't pay any inheritance tax on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die next year then there will be inheritance tax* to pay on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die in 2034 then there's no inheritance tax on the gift.

    * Actually not, because I live in Ireland, and there's no inheritance tax in Ireland, but instead a tax on the recipient, which means that gifts are liable for tax, with a variety of allowances depending on who you receive the gift from. This means my daughter's inheritance from me will escape tax (my estate won't pay tax and she won't pay tax either) but any inheritance I receive from my Dad will be taxed twice, if the amounts are large enough (once on the estate in Britain, and again on my receipt in Ireland. I should probably let my Dad know so he can pass most of it on to my daughter directly).
    Is inheritence tax covered by double taxation rules? Would any inheritence tax you pay in the UK be used to offset any tax liability in Ireland as it would if it were income?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    Daniel Green
    @DanGreenJourno
    ·
    30m
    LATEST: Lucy Powell says at FBU conference that she has it on "good authority" that there will be "absolutely no attempt" to block Andy Burnham's candidacy, as she says that she'll be political lead in Makerfield by-election

    https://x.com/DanGreenJourno/status/2055223804083757147
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    We can safely say Farage wasn't being "careless" in recieving the £5 million from the foreign crypto trader, which is Neidle's allegation against Rayner contrary to the HMRC finding.
    And on that £5 million:

    crucial context:

    Peter Mandelson was sacked from the first New Labour government for having a £373,000 *loan* (not a gift) from a Labour colleague (Geoffrey Robinson) to buy a house


    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mlsq52mvj22r

    If you totted up the sums for every financial scandal in British politics (£2k per parliamentary question for cash-for-questions, £200k for Johnson’s No 10 renovation, the cost of that very nice campervan) even with second tier stuff like Rayner and Polanski, would you get close to £5mn *in total*?

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3mluvbvsru22m

    And add further context the £5 million is the only bribe to Farage that we know about. His main response so far is to complain about a data breach.
    The issue with Mandelson's loan was that he lied on his mortgage application.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott
    Understand NEC officers aren't due to meet today but union general secretaries *are* and they are expecting Keir Starmer will address them (virtually).

    Sources suggest the general secretaries won't necessarily want to hurry Starmer out of office, but they'll likely reiterate the statement from earlier this week and again suggest he set out an orderly timetable.

    https://x.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/2055230699544711205
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Mr Burnham, make your first policy masts up to 30m in height as PD

    Given how roughshod mobile phone companies have been putting masts up - nope you will put them in stupid places without any thought.
    Gibberish. You can’t put up a new site without planning and approval.

    In any case, we make it far too difficult. And if you want fewer masts, allow existing ones to be taller.
    You were asking for PD (Permitted Development) rights - which means bypassing planning as you well know.

    So not gibberish - you are now talking about something utterly different from what your original post is about...
    Yes they should allow masts under PD rights. What is your issue with them?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    Wes Streeting
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    9m
    We need our best players on the pitch. There is no doubt that Andy Burnham is one of them.

    The Makerfield by-election will be tough. Votes will need to be earned.

    Andy is the best chance of winning and that should override factional advantage or propping up one person.

    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/2055229769323511939
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    edited May 15

    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    AIUI there’s no way he doesn’t owe income tax on it, if it was sent to a personal bank account.

    If you’re donating money to a politician to pay for their security, you should really pay it to a security company rather than a connected middleman or the politician himself.
    But then the security company would have to buy the house....
    If a house was bought from the money, then it’s clearly income which should be taxed as such.
    That's not how gifts are treated. If it was genuinely a gift, and not part of an exchange, then it wouldn't be taxable. For example, many parents gift their children money to help buy a house. This isn't taxable because it's a gift, the relationship between giver and receiver isn't relevant, except insofar as it makes it more believable that it's a gift than when the giver and receiver are a crypto-billionaire tax exile and a politician.
    Is there not a threshold on gifts, though?
    There's an annual threshold on gifts that are exempt from inheritance tax if the giver dies within seven years of the gift being given.

    So, if I give my daughter a gift of £1,000 this year and die next year she won't pay any inheritance tax on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die next year then there will be inheritance tax* to pay on the gift. If I give my daughter a gift of £25,000 this year and die in 2034 then there's no inheritance tax on the gift.

    * Actually not, because I live in Ireland, and there's no inheritance tax in Ireland, but instead a tax on the recipient, which means that gifts are liable for tax, with a variety of allowances depending on who you receive the gift from. This means my daughter's inheritance from me will escape tax (my estate won't pay tax and she won't pay tax either) but any inheritance I receive from my Dad will be taxed twice, if the amounts are large enough (once on the estate in Britain, and again on my receipt in Ireland. I should probably let my Dad know so he can pass most of it on to my daughter directly).
    Is inheritence tax covered by double taxation rules? Would any inheritence tax you pay in the UK be used to offset any tax liability in Ireland as it would if it were income?
    That's an interesting question. Would the quid pro quo be some inheritance tax to pay to avoid the double negative? I guess I'll have to look into that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    We can safely say Farage wasn't being "careless" in recieving the £5 million from the foreign crypto trader, which is Neidle's allegation against Rayner contrary to the HMRC finding.
    And on that £5 million:

    crucial context:

    Peter Mandelson was sacked from the first New Labour government for having a £373,000 *loan* (not a gift) from a Labour colleague (Geoffrey Robinson) to buy a house


    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mlsq52mvj22r

    If you totted up the sums for every financial scandal in British politics (£2k per parliamentary question for cash-for-questions, £200k for Johnson’s No 10 renovation, the cost of that very nice campervan) even with second tier stuff like Rayner and Polanski, would you get close to £5mn *in total*?

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3mluvbvsru22m

    And add further context the £5 million is the only bribe to Farage that we know about. His main response so far is to complain about a data breach.
    The issue with Mandelson's loan was that he lied on his mortgage application.
    Who would have expected anything different?
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dan neidling Ms Rayner on her taxes.

    https://x.com/danneidle/status/2054973645512929428

    Wonder if we will get anything from him on Farage's £5m and income tax, considering he now says it is a reward for work done on Brexit.
    We can safely say Farage wasn't being "careless" in recieving the £5 million from the foreign crypto trader, which is Neidle's allegation against Rayner contrary to the HMRC finding.
    And on that £5 million:

    crucial context:

    Peter Mandelson was sacked from the first New Labour government for having a £373,000 *loan* (not a gift) from a Labour colleague (Geoffrey Robinson) to buy a house


    https://bsky.app/profile/pickardje.bsky.social/post/3mlsq52mvj22r

    If you totted up the sums for every financial scandal in British politics (£2k per parliamentary question for cash-for-questions, £200k for Johnson’s No 10 renovation, the cost of that very nice campervan) even with second tier stuff like Rayner and Polanski, would you get close to £5mn *in total*?

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3mluvbvsru22m

    And add further context the £5 million is the only bribe to Farage that we know about. His main response so far is to complain about a data breach.
    The issue with Mandelson's loan was that he lied on his mortgage application.
    A classic from William
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    carnforth said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyhoo, the big news yesterday was Nigel Farge lying again and potentially landing himself with a massive tax bill.

    I'd disagree that that was the big story. The big story was the ongoing will-Andy-Burnham-get-to-be-PM story. I know many complain about the way the country collectively shrugs its shoulders at stories of Nigel Farage's dodginess, but this isn't really news: it's completely expected. It's priced in.
    I disagree, in so far as it is a big story if not THE absolutely humungeous story of yesterday. In the eyes of the public, tax dodging is far more consequentai for a politician's reputation than technical Westminster village stuff such as non-declaration of political donations, so if HMRC go after Farage that matters.

    In the same vein, council tax dodging could seriously damage Polanski.
    I doubt most of the public think person-to-person gifts should be taxable at all. See inheritance tax.
    IANAA but aiui person to person gifts are not taxable at all so the public is right. Farage's problem is being caught in a pincer movement between HMRC if it was payment and Parliamentary standards even if it was a gift, and if you can have a 3-way pincer, the wider public who think it came in a brown envelope. A further complication is the donor might be subject to different laws abroad.

    ETA inheritance tax is a separate issue.
    I don't think it is fully separate as the inheritance tax due from gifts is first due from the gift receiver before it is due from the estate. So person to person gifts above the limit (from the donors viewpoint) are potentially taxable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,850
    edited May 15
    Foss said:

    Expectations for Charles were quite low, so it's been easier for him to exceed them. William, on the other hand, there appear to be quite high expectations for him so he may have a tougher time of it when he takes over.

    The good thing about being a constitutional monarch and not head of government is you can leave the lawmaking and taxing and spending and going to war to the PM and his Cabinet and Parliament. So provided William behaves himself and looks glamorous with the Princess of Wales and does some engagements he really shouldn't have much to worry about. He can let his PM make the unpopular decisions and carry the can for them
This discussion has been closed.