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Where the Streeting has no names as Rayner becomes the favourite to be next PM –politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673

    Any resignations so far today?

    Not yet, but it’s only 09:30.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 14

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    Pretty bold move given he has been in parliament about 5 minutes.
    Who dares wins.

    Yeah, I know he was a marine but same starry eyed nitwittery over a sniff of a (wo)man in uniform applied.
    If Labour were looking for a LoTo, I could perhaps see it. The David Cameron move. But Starmer, Mr Technocrat, can't get anything moving, what is the chance of a bloke who has been in parliament 5 minutes and never held any big govenrment roles being able to unlock that (also I highly doubt when he got his seat he thought I will be leader in 2 years, so again, what deep thinking about policy will have been done).

    He also has the Son of a Toolmaker tick, every interview, "when I was in the military, we did x". Also, he can really quite prickerly when pushed by interviewers, you get the feeling he is very close to tell to shut the fuck up, I'm in charge. Being leader that is turned up to 11.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,750
    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    We should all know on PB by now that ejecting PMs is a long drawn out and tedious process.

    The only time it happened quickly was with Truss but that was a proper emergency.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    The armed forces minister.
    Wiki:
    Colonel Alistair Scott Carns, DSO, OBE, MC (born 27 March 1980) is a British Labour Party politician and former regular Royal Marines officer and a current reserve officer, who has been Member of Parliament (MP) for Birmingham Selly Oak since 2024.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,865
    Sandpit said:

    Any resignations so far today?

    Not yet, but it’s only 09:30.
    I think if anything is going to happen it will be earlier rather than later today but let's see!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,572
    Sean_F said:

    The good thing about the growth numbers is that, due to the reduction in immigration, they finally show up in terms of income per capita.

    It gives the lie to the argument that huge levels of immigration are needed to make the economy function.

    A lie that has persisted as gospel for a remarkably long time.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,447

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    Allies of Angela Rayner have confirmed that HMRC notified her of its conclusions on Tuesday.

    So they are claiming she has not been sitting on the result.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,572
    Pulpstar said:

    Is Wes going to bottle it ?

    He doesn't have the numbers.

    I reckon he preannounced in the hope people would rally to his colours, which probably hasn't happened.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    edited May 14
    Someone in HMRC has a sense of humour.

    ...and morning to all popcorn munchers. Another day at the coal face.


  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    edited May 14
    Sweeney74 said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    The armed forces minister.
    Wiki:
    Colonel Alistair Scott Carns, DSO, OBE, MC (born 27 March 1980) is a British Labour Party politician and former regular Royal Marines officer and a current reserve officer, who has been Member of Parliament (MP) for Birmingham Selly Oak since 2024.
    Electoral Calculus has Lab behind Greens AND Reform in Selly Oak (though not by much!).
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MelonB said:

    GDP up 0.6% in Q1.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/gdpfirstquarterlyestimateuk/januarytomarch2026#:~:text=UK real gross domestic product,(Oct to Dec) 2025.

    Growth has mildly outperformed expectations more often than not in recent years recently, under both governments. Not stellar, but better than you’d think from the headlines. The British mentality remains relentlessly negative. Which in turn holds back investment and consumer spending.

    Yes, the gloom is way overdone. Our country has problems but a lot of strengths too.
    Just a sign of the widespread, and inexplicable to me, Western dissatisfaction.

    "The country is f*cked', 'worst government ever', etc. etc. And much of this from people who lived through the 70s, for example. By any set objective measures we are immeasurably better off than we were then.
    A large part of the problem is increasing inequality by age and geography.

    Returns on capital are far better than on working, so the benefits of growth are accruing to those with assets rather than the wider population. So we see billionaires with superyachts while everyone else is struggling to pay the bills.
    I think we need to drop the “billionaires” thing. My own relatives, who aren’t stunningly rich, have made loads of cash from inheritance and house price inflation.

    Even I have tbh - owning a flat in Edinburgh has been highly lucrative, and I’m also making significant gains from my ISA, protected by the ludicrously high annual allowance.

    Bin NICs, CGT on property, drop ISA allowance to £5k.
    Having an overall cap on ISAs - for example £100k in cash ISAs and another £100k in an investment ISA - would certainly be worth considering, capping the overall benefit in a similar way as was done for pensions. When ISAs (originally PEPs) were introduced, the intention was to provide an incentive for ordinary people to save relatively modest amounts, free of tax. No-one envisaged that decades later there would be middle-aged people using their accumulated allowance to shelter the income and capital gains from a £million or more of savings and investments from tax.
    Is that true? Even if not and it is just coincidence, the £20,000 ISA limit corresponds roughly to a year's worth of mortgage payments and it may be the Treasury would rather empty nesters who'd paid off their mortgages saved in ISAs rather than spaffing it on mid-life crisis sports cars and exotic holidays.
    Well they’d be very very wrong if that’s what they thought.

    Economic growth is driven by spaffing. No spaff, no growth.

    Saving, especially in low yielding cash deposits, brings stagnation and ruin.

    “Brits don’t save enough” is one of those infuriatingly outdated beliefs alongside “the world population is growing too fast” and “we need to stop teen pregnancies”.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    All stems from the coalition government's cuts to police and local government budgets. It will take years to rebuild.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    Labours AI version of Ben Wallace.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,332
    Cuba has run out of diesel and oil, energy minister says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7pyrj0vx7o

    The American blockade and threatened sanctions against other countries supplying Cuba have cut off fuel supplies. If Cuba can be ‘reformed’ without blowing the place up, that is positive for Rubio 2028.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132

    Pulpstar said:

    Is Wes going to bottle it ?

    He doesn't have the numbers.

    I reckon he preannounced in the hope people would rally to his colours, which probably hasn't happened.
    I think this too.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,935

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    All stems from the coalition government's cuts to police and local government budgets. It will take years to rebuild.
    Why are trading standards left to deal with organised crime running smuggling and money laundering through shops?
  • Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    Labours AI version of Ben Wallace.
    Yes. That’s exactly who he reminds me of

    Take away the military stuff and you’ve got a fairly clueless twerp

    Wallace is thick
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    Cuba has run out of diesel and oil, energy minister says
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7pyrj0vx7o

    The American blockade and threatened sanctions against other countries supplying Cuba have cut off fuel supplies. If Cuba can be ‘reformed’ without blowing the place up, that is positive for Rubio 2028.

    If
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258
    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    Come on Wes, make your mind up, I have work to do.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,332

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 14

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    A guy on this food trip told me his 19 year old son (who lives at home with Dad) gets up in the morning then orders a Starbucks latte to be DELIVERED by uber eats

    Got the impression, Dad was not impressed
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    3m
    Labour and Tory leadership rules are similar – and could almost have been designed to produce worst possible outcomes: low threshold to trigger an election, which is decided by unrepresentative party members

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2054842359720947940
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    That would be an ecumenical matter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    A guy on this food trip told me his 19 year old son (who lives at home with Dad) gets up in the morning then orders a Starbucks latte to be DELIVERED by uber eats

    God the impression, Dad was not impressed
    He'll never save for a house deposit then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 14

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    A guy on this food trip told me his 19 year old son (who lives at home with Dad) gets up in the morning then orders a Starbucks latte to be DELIVERED by uber eats

    God the impression, Dad was not impressed
    I was reading some stats about US and there is a huge contridiction. Loads of fast food and fast casual chains are really struggling due to inflation, high minimum wages and customers just not having spare money, but on the flip side DoorDash are reporting growth.

    The cost of higher menu price, fees, fees on the fees, tax, tip, turns you meal into crazy amount. Same here albeit not having to 20% tip.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 14

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    A guy on this food trip told me his 19 year old son (who lives at home with Dad) gets up in the morning then orders a Starbucks latte to be DELIVERED by uber eats

    God the impression, Dad was not impressed
    He'll never save for a house deposit then.
    Probably orders smashed avo on toast, as well

    On the other hand on this trip I met a young man - dynamic, suited, handsome - doing very well in one of the train companies (there’s a weird mix of people here) who was quite openly reform and fiercely right wing. Friend of charlie peters at university

    Wasn’t shy about it. Relaxed and confident and very very capitalist. Not a posho but well educated
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    Labours AI version of Ben Wallace.
    Yes. That’s exactly who he reminds me of

    Take away the military stuff and you’ve got a fairly clueless twerp

    Wallace is thick
    Isn't Carns likely to fall to the Greens in 2028/9? Isn't he in a seat packed with students in Selly Oak, south Birmingham?

    Mind you all the candidates are on course to lose their seats so maybe matters little now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    WTF, Magic Grandpa has rocked up Sky News to talk about leadership challenges.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    edited May 14

    We should all know on PB by now that ejecting PMs is a long drawn out and tedious process.

    The only time it happened quickly was with Truss but that was a proper emergency.

    It happened quickly with Sunak and Mrs May, when they asked the electorate. :smile:

    And ex-PMs go more quickly. As soon as Boris Johnson was found to have broken the rules, he ran away from Parliament like a scalded cat, or like General Benedict Arnold.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    Because you want a place to sit down while out and about and you have to pay to rent a seat out of the rain by paying for an exorbitant coffee (hot chocolate for me, thanks) in a disposable container.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Sean_F said:

    The good thing about the growth numbers is that, due to the reduction in immigration, they finally show up in terms of income per capita.

    It gives the lie to the argument that huge levels of immigration are needed to make the economy function.

    For decades we have had a focus on the evils of inflation and the need to suppress excessive wage growth. Growing the pool of potential workers particularly at a time when large numbers of baby boomers were retiring has been seen as the answer.

    Now there are those who would blame inflation on too much cheap money.......
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    Mornin' all!!

    I realise the gambling implications, and I am fully aware of the interest such a subject as this generates on this site, but haven't we reached the point where everyone except Starmer should 'Put Up or Shut Up'?

    I'm no fan of Starmer; I think he's been over-promoted; as I've said before I think he'd be quite a good Attorney General, maybe Home Secretary or perhaps Foreign Secretary, but he is where he is, and what the country needs is a period of stability with those in high Government office staying in post for four or five years.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834

    WTF, Magic Grandpa has rocked up Sky News to talk about leadership challenges.

    They'll have Ken Livingstone next. "I'll tell you who else the Labour leadership tried to block..."
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    edited May 14

    Mornin' all!!

    I realise the gambling implications, and I am fully aware of the interest such a subject as this generates on this site, but haven't we reached the point where everyone except Starmer should 'Put Up or Shut Up'?

    I'm no fan of Starmer; I think he's been over-promoted; as I've said before I think he'd be quite a good Attorney General, maybe Home Secretary or perhaps Foreign Secretary, but he is where he is, and what the country needs is a period of stability with those in high Government office staying in post for four or five years.

    We are a week after predictably awful local and devolved elections for Labour and no-one has yet made a move (though perhaps Streeting is about to do so).

    "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly"


    But no-one has the confidence of being able to get it done. And so they hesitate.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,842
    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/2054834323761574075

    @DanNeidle
    Because politicians think it’s convenient and populist to have a second home stamp duty charge. As soon as you do that you create a mountain of complexity like this.

    I am confident this experience means Ms Rayner will be leading a campaign to abolish the second home charge.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333
    Have got the opening of the Scottish Parliament on in the background as they all get sworn in. Several members have followed the affirmation in English with one in Scots. Karen Adam followed up with sign language. I have no doubt Gaelic is coming. Hoping that Yi-Pei is allowed to do so in Mandarin...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035

    Sean_F said:

    The good thing about the growth numbers is that, due to the reduction in immigration, they finally show up in terms of income per capita.

    It gives the lie to the argument that huge levels of immigration are needed to make the economy function.

    A lie that has persisted as gospel for a remarkably long time.
    This government has a pretty good story to tell, on immigration. Their problem is, most of their MP’s don’t wish to tell it.

    Most of their time in office, the Conservatives thought that talking tough, while actually permitting vast numbers to enter the country, would suffice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    Listening to Magic Grandpa reminds me how lucky we got when he was a near miss.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    WTF, Magic Grandpa has rocked up Sky News to talk about leadership challenges.

    Leadership challenges for the leadership of the Labour Party, or for the leadership of Your Party?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949

    WTF, Magic Grandpa has rocked up Sky News to talk about leadership challenges.

    Leadership challenges for the leadership of the Labour Party, or for the leadership of Your Party?
    Apparently YourParty is absolutely smashing it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    Where's Wally Wes?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035

    Mornin' all!!

    I realise the gambling implications, and I am fully aware of the interest such a subject as this generates on this site, but haven't we reached the point where everyone except Starmer should 'Put Up or Shut Up'?

    I'm no fan of Starmer; I think he's been over-promoted; as I've said before I think he'd be quite a good Attorney General, maybe Home Secretary or perhaps Foreign Secretary, but he is where he is, and what the country needs is a period of stability with those in high Government office staying in post for four or five years.

    We are a week after predictably awful local and devolved elections for Labour and no-one has yet made a move (though perhaps Streeting is about to do so).

    "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly"


    But no-one has the confidence of being able to get it done. And so they hesitate.
    “When you have to shoot, shoot, don’t talk”, as Tuco Ramirez put it.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811
    Sweeney74 said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    The armed forces minister.
    Wiki:
    Colonel Alistair Scott Carns, DSO, OBE, MC (born 27 March 1980) is a British Labour Party politician and former regular Royal Marines officer and a current reserve officer, who has been Member of Parliament (MP) for Birmingham Selly Oak since 2024.
    I think he just missed out on being promoted to Brigadier due to standing for parliament.

    Enoch Powell, another West Mids MP, made it to Brigadier. Though there the resemblance possibly ends.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411

    Mornin' all!!

    I realise the gambling implications, and I am fully aware of the interest such a subject as this generates on this site, but haven't we reached the point where everyone except Starmer should 'Put Up or Shut Up'?

    I'm no fan of Starmer; I think he's been over-promoted; as I've said before I think he'd be quite a good Attorney General, maybe Home Secretary or perhaps Foreign Secretary, but he is where he is, and what the country needs is a period of stability with those in high Government office staying in post for four or five years.

    We are a week after predictably awful local and devolved elections for Labour and no-one has yet made a move (though perhaps Streeting is about to do so).

    "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly"


    But no-one has the confidence of being able to get it done. And so they hesitate.
    Quite. And yes, the local elections were awful; probably as bad for a sitting government as we've ever seen. Starmer should find a job for Angela Rayner asap, and Streeting should bend his mind to sorting the doctors complaints.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    edited May 14

    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·3m
    Labour and Tory leadership rules are similar – and could almost have been designed to produce worst possible outcomes: low threshold to trigger an election, which is decided by unrepresentative party members

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2054842359720947940

    20% MP written backing isn't that low. But I agree on the member point despite being one. When it's for PM I think MPs should decide. That said, if it goes to the members I'd take account of MP sentiment and I'd hope most other members would.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    edited May 14

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926

    Sweeney74 said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    That's an angle. Who is Al Carns?
    The armed forces minister.
    Wiki:
    Colonel Alistair Scott Carns, DSO, OBE, MC (born 27 March 1980) is a British Labour Party politician and former regular Royal Marines officer and a current reserve officer, who has been Member of Parliament (MP) for Birmingham Selly Oak since 2024.
    I think he just missed out on being promoted to Brigadier due to standing for parliament.

    Enoch Powell, another West Mids MP, made it to Brigadier. Though there the resemblance possibly ends.
    He was in the special forces, like Paddy Ashdown.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,926
    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth is a British habit (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    In France, the dog shit is just left where it fell. We're far less filthy than that!
  • eekeek Posts: 33,908
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/2054834323761574075

    @DanNeidle
    Because politicians think it’s convenient and populist to have a second home stamp duty charge. As soon as you do that you create a mountain of complexity like this.

    I am confident this experience means Ms Rayner will be leading a campaign to abolish the second home charge.

    It wasn't populist - that second home charge is there because some mechanism had to be put in place to stop landlords continually out bidding owner occupiers. Heck it was Osbourne who implemented it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579
    Has Wes bottled it? My guess is that he's done a count this morning and doesn't have the numbers to trigger a race.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth is a British habit (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    In France, the dog shit is just left where it fell. We're far less filthy than that!
    I was once sitting outside a cafe in Paris with friends, and a man dropped his trousers, and took a dump in the gutter in front of us.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811

    Have got the opening of the Scottish Parliament on in the background as they all get sworn in. Several members have followed the affirmation in English with one in Scots. Karen Adam followed up with sign language. I have no doubt Gaelic is coming. Hoping that Yi-Pei is allowed to do so in Mandarin...

    Amusing watching some MSPs, with gritted teeth, bearing true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    The point was made earlier about cuts to the police under the Coalition.
  • https://x.com/smyth_chris/status/2054846104202539229

    Wes Streeting - just - hits his NHS performance target

    65.3% of patients treated within 18 weeks by March

    It's not fantastic, but enough of a platform for an announcement today

    Wes will trigger today. And then Rayner will join and probably win. And then I will resign my Labour membership.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,673
    MaxPB said:

    Has Wes bottled it? My guess is that he's done a count this morning and doesn't have the numbers to trigger a race.

    Is it the worst of all worlds, that we get no contest at all because not enough MPs want to back a candidate, and the whole sh!t-show has to keep on carrying on for months or even a couple of years?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    Come on Wes, make your mind up, I have work to do.

    It seemed a dead cert he was challenging - but that was Westerday.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,881

    Have got the opening of the Scottish Parliament on in the background as they all get sworn in. Several members have followed the affirmation in English with one in Scots. Karen Adam followed up with sign language. I have no doubt Gaelic is coming. Hoping that Yi-Pei is allowed to do so in Mandarin...

    Apparently there is no one left in the Scottish Parliament who can actually speak Gaelic. Clearly not enough public money has been thrown at this nonsense.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    BBC saying Streeting allies are telling them he is going for it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086
    As Jack Regan used to say ‘pee or get off the pot’
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,881
    kinabalu said:

    Come on Wes, make your mind up, I have work to do.

    It seemed a dead cert he was challenging - but that was Westerday.
    Westerday, all my troubles seemed so far away,
    Now they seem to be here to stay,
    Oh how I long for Westerday.
  • MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    This is wrong. It is not a British habit. I remember my hometown being scrupulously clean as a kid

    And almost no graffiti. And phone boxes were phone boxes not vertical piles of filth and degradation

    Nor am I imagining it. Look at photos of cities 30, 40 or 70 years ago. There is much less litter. The shop fronts are prettier and better kept. The cars are of course crappier

    A huge combo of things has led to this from the advent of fast food to a general slovenliness (see the way we dress) to more transient migrant populations who - as is human nature - care less about the environment as it is not theirs and they are passing through

    We are probably all guilty in different ways. But countries like Switzerland and Japan show that it does not have to be like this. Even urban America is often much cleaner than Britain

    It’s shameful
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,307

    State of play as I see it

    1. Rayner is now favourite. With her remarkably well timed HMRC clearance. If only they could be so efficient with my year long requests for foreign tax exemption certificates

    She’d be a more awkward customer for Farage and Badenoch than the hapless Starmer. Feisty, female, working class

    However there are grave doubts about her competence and there is that Dan Hodges article about her boozing (and many other rumours about her private life)

    She’s probably the biggest risk but also the biggest potential upside if she pays off

    2. Streeting probably can’t win now. But he should still go for it. Show that he’s got friends and a base in the party. If he does that but loses it means he can’t be idly dismissed. He’d get a cabinet place and might get a second chance. Farage will be relieved. Streeting might have been a trickier customer

    3. Burnham. Can’t see him even entering the race. There are no safe constituencies. Rule him out

    4. Miliband. An inferior choice to Rayner for Labour lefties. Another north london liberal. Also a rejected retread. A man yet again. He can’t beat Rayner. Farage would love this net zero crank as his opponent

    5. Starmer. No. Just no. It’s over. If he stays Farage will again be delighted but I can’t see it. Half his cabinet have asked him to leave - it is untenable

    So I make Rayner a pretty clear favourite unless Burnham can quickly get back into the commons. Which he can’t

    Agree with this summary.

    Re the HMRC clearance: I am not surprised. No doubt this has been fast-tracked because HMRC will not want to be seen unnecessarily preventing a possible PM candidate from entering the race. It's a tricky one for them but one has got to ask how it can take more than a day or two for an investigator to review the evidence and make a recommendation.
    HMRC has a “politically exposed persons” list of people who get special treatment: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/economic-crime-supervision-handbook/ecsh33316

    Government ministers will definitely be on that list. Whether their special treatment consists of kid gloves or the full HMRC Eye of Sauron is a question I can’t give an answer to!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,700

    https://x.com/smyth_chris/status/2054846104202539229

    Wes Streeting - just - hits his NHS performance target

    65.3% of patients treated within 18 weeks by March

    It's not fantastic, but enough of a platform for an announcement today

    Wes will trigger today. And then Rayner will join and probably win. And then I will resign my Labour membership.

    Oh no thats terrible news i am sure you will be missed
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,572
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The good thing about the growth numbers is that, due to the reduction in immigration, they finally show up in terms of income per capita.

    It gives the lie to the argument that huge levels of immigration are needed to make the economy function.

    A lie that has persisted as gospel for a remarkably long time.
    This government has a pretty good story to tell, on immigration. Their problem is, most of their MP’s don’t wish to tell it.

    Most of their time in office, the Conservatives thought that talking tough, while actually permitting vast numbers to enter the country, would suffice.
    To be fair, a lot of the measures Rishi took in his final 6 months did have an effect but that only played out after Labour took office.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 14
    Al Carns position is a bit ridicilious. I will definitely stand if there is an election but I won't launch a challenge. Surely you have to be sacked for not being loyal.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482
    edited May 14

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    A guy on this food trip told me his 19 year old son (who lives at home with Dad) gets up in the morning then orders a Starbucks latte to be DELIVERED by uber eats

    God the impression, Dad was not impressed
    That's weird. Starbucks ? !!!! The idle rich, or the gormless rich?

    At that rate he could get a high end bean to cup machine, making excellent coffee, in a couple of months.
  • https://x.com/smyth_chris/status/2054846104202539229

    Wes Streeting - just - hits his NHS performance target

    65.3% of patients treated within 18 weeks by March

    It's not fantastic, but enough of a platform for an announcement today

    Wes will trigger today. And then Rayner will join and probably win. And then I will resign my Labour membership.

    Oh no thats terrible news i am sure you will be missed
    The fact you don’t want a high tax paying working professional says a lot about you
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,572
    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth is a British habit (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    In France, the dog shit is just left where it fell. We're far less filthy than that!
    I was once sitting outside a cafe in Paris with friends, and a man dropped his trousers, and took a dump in the gutter in front of us.
    The French are revolting.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    edited May 14
    Phil said:

    State of play as I see it

    1. Rayner is now favourite. With her remarkably well timed HMRC clearance. If only they could be so efficient with my year long requests for foreign tax exemption certificates

    She’d be a more awkward customer for Farage and Badenoch than the hapless Starmer. Feisty, female, working class

    However there are grave doubts about her competence and there is that Dan Hodges article about her boozing (and many other rumours about her private life)

    She’s probably the biggest risk but also the biggest potential upside if she pays off

    2. Streeting probably can’t win now. But he should still go for it. Show that he’s got friends and a base in the party. If he does that but loses it means he can’t be idly dismissed. He’d get a cabinet place and might get a second chance. Farage will be relieved. Streeting might have been a trickier customer

    3. Burnham. Can’t see him even entering the race. There are no safe constituencies. Rule him out

    4. Miliband. An inferior choice to Rayner for Labour lefties. Another north london liberal. Also a rejected retread. A man yet again. He can’t beat Rayner. Farage would love this net zero crank as his opponent

    5. Starmer. No. Just no. It’s over. If he stays Farage will again be delighted but I can’t see it. Half his cabinet have asked him to leave - it is untenable

    So I make Rayner a pretty clear favourite unless Burnham can quickly get back into the commons. Which he can’t

    Agree with this summary.

    Re the HMRC clearance: I am not surprised. No doubt this has been fast-tracked because HMRC will not want to be seen unnecessarily preventing a possible PM candidate from entering the race. It's a tricky one for them but one has got to ask how it can take more than a day or two for an investigator to review the evidence and make a recommendation.
    HMRC has a “politically exposed persons” list of people who get special treatment: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/economic-crime-supervision-handbook/ecsh33316

    Government ministers will definitely be on that list. Whether their special treatment consists of kid gloves or the full HMRC Eye of Sauron is a question I can’t give an answer to!
    I can.

    It makes their lives a million times harder than for Joe Public.

    Edit - See this

    Jeremy Hunt reveals he was refused Monzo bank account

    Chancellor says barriers to careers in public life must be removed after being refused account ‘as a politically exposed person’

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/09/jeremy-hunt-reveals-he-was-refused-monzo-account
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    BBC saying Streeting allies are telling them he is going for it.

    When do we get to start referring to him as Weseltine?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    Because you want a place to sit down while out and about and you have to pay to rent a seat out of the rain by paying for an exorbitant coffee (hot chocolate for me, thanks) in a disposable container.
    Indeed. My point is why the cardboard takeaway cup, if you drink in, you can get your coffee served in china.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,057

    https://x.com/smyth_chris/status/2054846104202539229

    Wes Streeting - just - hits his NHS performance target

    65.3% of patients treated within 18 weeks by March

    It's not fantastic, but enough of a platform for an announcement today

    Wes will trigger today. And then Rayner will join and probably win. And then I will resign my Labour membership.

    If Wes triggers today, Starmer will contest, and Rayner will not join in. She's said that.
    Wes will then lose and Starmer will be PM for a year or so until Burnham becomes an MP.
    You can hold onto your Labour membership for now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834

    Al Carns position is a bit ridicilious. I will definitely stand if there is an election but I won't launch a challenge. Surely you have to be sacked for not being loyal.

    He might be loyally acting as a spoiler because it ties up any potential nominees given that they're not able to switch.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,881
    Did I read on this site that Streeting has been engaged to the same guy for 13 years? Perhaps we are all overestimating his decisiveness.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,333

    Have got the opening of the Scottish Parliament on in the background as they all get sworn in. Several members have followed the affirmation in English with one in Scots. Karen Adam followed up with sign language. I have no doubt Gaelic is coming. Hoping that Yi-Pei is allowed to do so in Mandarin...

    Yes. In English, Mandarin, and French!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    Pretty bold move given he has been in parliament about 5 minutes.
    Who dares wins.

    Yeah, I know he was a marine but same starry eyed nitwittery over a sniff of a (wo)man in uniform applied.
    If Labour were looking for a LoTo, I could perhaps see it. The David Cameron move. But Starmer, Mr Technocrat, can't get anything moving, what is the chance of a bloke who has been in parliament 5 minutes and never held any big govenrment roles being able to unlock that (also I highly doubt when he got his seat he thought I will be leader in 2 years, so again, what deep thinking about policy will have been done).

    He also has the Son of a Toolmaker tick, every interview, "when I was in the military, we did x". Also, he can really quite prickerly when pushed by interviewers, you get the feeling he is very close to tell to shut the fuck up, I'm in charge. Being leader that is turned up to 11.
    OTOH I’ve considered it unlikely that a Scot would ever lead a main(sic) UK party again but the steely jawed action man thing might counter that. I suppose a politician that doesn’t look a total dick in a fall jacket would be a novelty. Paul Mason might have a fatal orgasm.

    https://unherd.com/2025/09/will-labour-learn-to-love-defence/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    I do that. Not through the hole in the lid - agree that's barbaric - but I do ask for a takeaway cup when I go to a cafe. Reason being that I like to sit and sip it for a few minutes, then get going and take it with me to wherever I'm heading next. If you have a 'proper' cup/mug you can't do that. You'd have to either sit there until you've finished the whole coffee or leave half of it undrunk.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    A guy on this food trip told me his 19 year old son (who lives at home with Dad) gets up in the morning then orders a Starbucks latte to be DELIVERED by uber eats

    Got the impression, Dad was not impressed
    After a little practice, I can make a better flat white with my Sage Bambino than Starbucks can. I use better coffee too.

    Less than £300, pays for itself after 100 coffees.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,170

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    This is wrong. It is not a British habit. I remember my hometown being scrupulously clean as a kid

    And almost no graffiti. And phone boxes were phone boxes not vertical piles of filth and degradation

    Nor am I imagining it. Look at photos of cities 30, 40 or 70 years ago. There is much less litter. The shop fronts are prettier and better kept. The cars are of course crappier

    A huge combo of things has led to this from the advent of fast food to a general slovenliness (see the way we dress) to more transient migrant populations who - as is human nature - care less about the environment as it is not theirs and they are passing through

    We are probably all guilty in different ways. But countries like Switzerland and Japan show that it does not have to be like this. Even urban America is often much cleaner than Britain

    It’s shameful
    When I was a kid I was quite into model making (mainly railways) and constructing buildings from cardboard. Memory plays tricks I'm sure but I seem to recall having to struggle to get cardboard back in the day. Now we seem to drown in cardboard (we often fill two full size recycling bins over a two week cycle). Same for clear plastic (useful for windows).

    Point is the way we get food from the shops has changed. Its massively well/over packaged. Add in the fast food, and yes, a lesser regard for community behaviour and we are where we are.

    Do I falsely remember a trial of littering penalties tied to income? And a woman who dropped an apple core out of her car window being fined a huge amount?

    Other approaches - many towns and villages organise tidying up and litter picking days. This is to be encouraged.
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 265

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    This is wrong. It is not a British habit. I remember my hometown being scrupulously clean as a kid

    And almost no graffiti. And phone boxes were phone boxes not vertical piles of filth and degradation

    Nor am I imagining it. Look at photos of cities 30, 40 or 70 years ago. There is much less litter. The shop fronts are prettier and better kept. The cars are of course crappier

    A huge combo of things has led to this from the advent of fast food to a general slovenliness (see the way we dress) to more transient migrant populations who - as is human nature - care less about the environment as it is not theirs and they are passing through

    We are probably all guilty in different ways. But countries like Switzerland and Japan show that it does not have to be like this. Even urban America is often much cleaner than Britain

    It’s shameful

    Apart from the bit about cars being crappier, yes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    DavidL said:

    Did I read on this site that Streeting has been engaged to the same guy for 13 years? Perhaps we are all overestimating his decisiveness.

    They've been engaged since 2022.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,842

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth is a British habit (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    In France, the dog shit is just left where it fell. We're far less filthy than that!
    There is one city in England where that also happens. I won't name it because they're easily upset.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    Because you want a place to sit down while out and about and you have to pay to rent a seat out of the rain by paying for an exorbitant coffee (hot chocolate for me, thanks) in a disposable container.
    Indeed. My point is why the cardboard takeaway cup, if you drink in, you can get your coffee served in china.
    I've never seen anyone in a Starbucks with their drink in china. It would certainly be more pleasant served that way, but seems not to be how that company operates.
  • I know nobody wants to say this and it’s not the whole problem. But Wes is absolutely right that at least some of the failure of Labour is down to not communicating at all when they’ve actually done good things. He would clearly be better at that than Starmer.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,258
    kinabalu said:

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    I do that. Not through the hole in the lid - agree that's barbaric - but I do ask for a takeaway cup when I go to a cafe. Reason being that I like to sit and sip it for a few minutes, then get going and take it with me to wherever I'm heading next. If you have a 'proper' cup/mug you can't do that. You'd have to either sit there until you've finished the whole coffee or leave half of it undrunk.
    That's a good point, but a lot of people drink the whole thing in the cafe.

    If I buy a coffee to take on a train, for example, I wait until I am on the train and then take the lid off to drink it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    DavidL said:

    Did I read on this site that Streeting has been engaged to the same guy for 13 years? Perhaps we are all overestimating his decisiveness.

    He's been in a relationship with the same guy for ~13 years, but only engaged since 2022. Albeit, that's still quite a long engagement. I thought we were slow when we took ~two years to sort it out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    Sweeney74 said:

    Al Carns for PM

    Pretty bold move given he has been in parliament about 5 minutes.
    Who dares wins.

    Yeah, I know he was a marine but same starry eyed nitwittery over a sniff of a (wo)man in uniform applied.
    If Labour were looking for a LoTo, I could perhaps see it. The David Cameron move. But Starmer, Mr Technocrat, can't get anything moving, what is the chance of a bloke who has been in parliament 5 minutes and never held any big govenrment roles being able to unlock that (also I highly doubt when he got his seat he thought I will be leader in 2 years, so again, what deep thinking about policy will have been done).

    He also has the Son of a Toolmaker tick, every interview, "when I was in the military, we did x". Also, he can really quite prickerly when pushed by interviewers, you get the feeling he is very close to tell to shut the fuck up, I'm in charge. Being leader that is turned up to 11.
    OTOH I’ve considered it unlikely that a Scot would ever lead a main(sic) UK party again but the steely jawed action man thing might counter that. I suppose a politician that doesn’t look a total dick in a fall jacket would be a novelty. Paul Mason might have a fatal orgasm.

    https://unherd.com/2025/09/will-labour-learn-to-love-defence/
    You Scots are so parochial.

    Right now the Tories are led by a woman with the surname Badenoch, you cannot get more Scottish than that.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,625
    This emergent trend of getting all damp in the gusset over any politician with a military background is ludicrous.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    DavidL said:

    Why do people pay £4 for a coffee, sit in the cafe to drink it - out of a cardboard cup, through that silly little hole in the plastic lid? Have they no soul?

    Because you want a place to sit down while out and about and you have to pay to rent a seat out of the rain by paying for an exorbitant coffee (hot chocolate for me, thanks) in a disposable container.
    Indeed. My point is why the cardboard takeaway cup, if you drink in, you can get your coffee served in china.
    Long way to go for a coffee.
    Can you get coffee in China? Only been for a few days but I don't remember any.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    MaxPB said:

    Has Wes bottled it? My guess is that he's done a count this morning and doesn't have the numbers to trigger a race.

    I think he does and he will.

    But point of order - if he can't challenge because he's short of the 81 that isn't really 'bottling it'.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Cos I drink my coffee black it's always a thermonuclear temperature. The lid comes off asap to give it half an hour to reach drinkable temperature.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,811

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    This is wrong. It is not a British habit. I remember my hometown being scrupulously clean as a kid

    And almost no graffiti. And phone boxes were phone boxes not vertical piles of filth and degradation

    Nor am I imagining it. Look at photos of cities 30, 40 or 70 years ago. There is much less litter. The shop fronts are prettier and better kept. The cars are of course crappier

    A huge combo of things has led to this from the advent of fast food to a general slovenliness (see the way we dress) to more transient migrant populations who - as is human nature - care less about the environment as it is not theirs and they are passing through

    We are probably all guilty in different ways. But countries like Switzerland and Japan show that it does not have to be like this. Even urban America is often much cleaner than Britain

    It’s shameful
    Salt Lake City was an eye-opener - visited something like ten years ago.

    They even had little flags in holders by the road crossings, that you took out, flourished as you crossed the road, and then replaced at the other side, Unimaginable in the UK, or most other places.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,482

    MattW said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Excellent GDP figures out. Were it not for Mandelson, suspect Starmer would be able to talk about turning the economy around and see off leadership disquiet.

    No, no, that can't be right. We all know the country's economy is going down the pan - I read it here on PB every day so it must be true.
    The economy might not be, but so much else is:

    Shoplifters acting with impunity.

    Dodgy shops either acting as fronts for money laundering or selling dodgy fags and vapes.

    Chavs buzzing about on illegal e-bikes.

    Filth everywhere, plus illegal waste dumps blighting the countryside.

    I could go on and on.

    So much is shite.
    The anti-fly tipping signs put up by the council are already wearing off. Maybe fly-tippers can't read.
    Filth and hypocrisy about it are established British habits (tbf I have not surveyed Wales or Scotland extensively). Consider dogshit bags hung on trees, or litter in every layby, or along every road. Yet as soon as we have enforcers, the Great British Whining Noise can be heard keening on the breeze.

    The laws are in place for some of those - illegal e-bikes have been confiscatible (sp) for two decades (since 2005) in exactly the same way as any other uninsured motor vehicle. Or S59 can be used. Much of this is about political will and willingness to enforce.

    This is why I do not think taxes will or should be going down - if we want a decent society it needs more resources, not less, especially for local government.

    On another serious note, this type of thing makes me wonder whether we have capability for the type of grassroots civil-society activism against our Right Wing nihilists that will be a significant factor in overturning MAGA in the USA.
    The point was made earlier about cuts to the police under the Coalition.
    Thank-you. Yes.

    We lost all our community policemen and our police station (which used to have dozens based there) in around 2015 in a town of 50k. So on the ground intelligence is now minimal.

    There's a notable small-c conservatism in the police force, and a not invented here syndrome.

    TBF not at all helped here by our last PCC being a sick joke.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    Whilst I was doing my research on Wes Streeting, his partner stood and lost in the 2024 general election, and has previously worked as a SPAD for Baroness Amos, Lord Coe, and some chap called Lord Mandelson.
This discussion has been closed.