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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,618

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    The preferred cliche is now "at speed".
    (It still means slowly, or never.)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320

    Might we see a joint ticket where one has got the looks and the other has got the brains?

    Stick Carns in . Did he ever do one of those charity calendars ? His brutish rugged good looks and I used to be a marine so won’t take any crap might work .

    It’s a lot better than I used to be cabin crew for EasyJet Streeting ! Burnham no I don’t use eye liner and didn’t fail miserably in two previous leadership attempts . Rayner , for the love of God stop shopping at Primark get yourself down to Chanel , enough with those puffy shoulders . Poor Miliband , the sex appeal of I don’t know what !

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,885

    A draft for the Kings Speech -

    “You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.”

    I think that Turn it in may have an issue with that.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,627
    edited May 13

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    "Across the piece" too, though slightly dated now

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518
    OT

    I think there is an element of much of the crowd of contenders not wanting the job.

    Is anyone likely to turn round the probable historic defeat, that is coming?

    The smart money would be on a Reform government causing 52 card pickup. Labour would hope to become the new Champion of The People in the chaos.

    But they have to try. Or be seen to try.

    Could it be that Burnham efforts to become an MP are semi performative?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    edited May 13
    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,134

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    Surbubia. Where the suburbs meet utopia.
    It's the less uplifting remake of Zootopia
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    There's a cartoon with project management PERT chart, lots of activities flowing into a central box and lots of good outcomes flowing from the central box. The central box itself is just Here a miracle occurs. The caption is older guy saying to younger, 'I think we need a little more detail here.'
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,444

    A draft for the Kings Speech -

    “You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go.”

    It's barely two years since the GE, surely?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,134
    edited May 13

    Foxy said:

    Wasn't Streeting involved with the pet shop boys some years ago?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27241568/wes-streeting-deny-burning-pet-shop-conspiracy/

    Yay, somebody spotted the subtle Pet Shop Boys reference in the headline.
    Go Wes!
    Just remembering that One nil to the Arsenal cover, Tony Adams era, I think

    ETA: Christ, googling - was Tony Adams on Strictly? :open_mouth:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,885

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yep, so that they wipe out the deficit and start repaying the debt mountains at a meaningful pace. If they could only do that then the bond markets would indeed fall in line. Always happy to lend to people who don't actually need it, as you will know.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,627

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    That’s utter nonsense.

    The Labour left wish list is something like double that.

    🤪🤪

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    edited May 13

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    But still... never read Hamlet?

    Priorities, dear boy, priorities.

    In fairness your reading knocks mine into a cocked hat but I did pick up Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy in Waterstones at the weekend - hoping it's going to be interesting and educational.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,466
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of Rayner and her tax issue .

    What can the Greens say now that Polanski has been caught out . Reform given Farages dodgy donations really should stay quiet . So that leaves the Tories and Lib Dem’s who can make political capital out of it .

    I still think it’s very risky for Labour to try and replace Starmer with Rayner until her tax issue has been resolved.

    Why it’s taking so long to resolve is hard to understand.

    Because HMRC’s investigations move at the pace of a geriatric snail with mobility issues.

    The idea that HMRC can do anything complex in a time frame of less than a decade is unheard of.

    And Rayner can’t get special treatment
    Well, thats what happens when you cut the pen-pushers.

    18 months ago I took my pension under the Mcloud remedy, and am due several thousands in income tax refund but 18 months on they still haven't recalculated my contributions. I am not allowed to calculate them myself it seems.
    Different if it is other way round. They penalised me , added interest etc as I supposedly ahd not paid some outstanding calculation, which they had not told me about. Had to appeal and they removed it in end, but they still take interest every day.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Maybe he was just telling the PM that he was going to launch a challenge and that’s why it was so short .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,836
    nico67 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Maybe he was just telling the PM that he was going to launch a challenge and that’s why it was so short .
    I wonder if Starmer gave a Heathesque response: "You'll lose."
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,627
    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Interview without coffee ...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,466

    Might we see a joint ticket where one has got the looks and the other has got the brains?

    Not possible combination from Labour even if squinting into the sun.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,211
    nico67 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Maybe he was just telling the PM that he was going to launch a challenge and that’s why it was so short .
    Maybe he just told the PM to resign and the PM said no and that's why it was so short.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    Wes is still looking for Opportunities. He is obviously worried about Jack The Lad Burnham.
    Starmer, meanwhile looks to tough it out; "I'm Not Scared", he declares.

    What have I done to deserve this, we all wonder
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,885

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    In terms of Rayner and her tax issue .

    What can the Greens say now that Polanski has been caught out . Reform given Farages dodgy donations really should stay quiet . So that leaves the Tories and Lib Dem’s who can make political capital out of it .

    I still think it’s very risky for Labour to try and replace Starmer with Rayner until her tax issue has been resolved.

    Why it’s taking so long to resolve is hard to understand.

    Because HMRC’s investigations move at the pace of a geriatric snail with mobility issues.

    The idea that HMRC can do anything complex in a time frame of less than a decade is unheard of.

    And Rayner can’t get special treatment
    Well, thats what happens when you cut the pen-pushers.

    18 months ago I took my pension under the Mcloud remedy, and am due several thousands in income tax refund but 18 months on they still haven't recalculated my contributions. I am not allowed to calculate them myself it seems.
    Different if it is other way round. They penalised me , added interest etc as I supposedly ahd not paid some outstanding calculation, which they had not told me about. Had to appeal and they removed it in end, but they still take interest every day.
    Funnily enough, I have always found HMRC fair and reasonably prompt. But I've probably been very lucky.
  • Streeting I reckon tries and gets a leftie to run with him.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,134

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    I reckon we could turn the royal family into an actual legit reality TV show, enable voting them out (premium lines etc), syndication, action figures, themed stays in the royal premises, maybe auction off positions in the royal family after people get voted off (Saudi minor royal interest?).

    That's your £200b plan right there.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726

    Might we see a joint ticket where one has got the looks and the other has got the brains?

    Let's spend lots of money?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    Never really been able to get into Pratchett, though I'd like to. Where should I start?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    It was more along the lines of getting a bonus like North Sea Oil.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,134

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    "Good morning Prime Minister."

    "Fuck-off!"

    "No, you fuck-off!"
    Morning Wes

    Morning Sir Keir

    So, I've asked you here as I want no more scandals about which I knew nothing but really should have asked some questions... Did you torch that pet shop?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,627
    edited May 13

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    It was more along the lines of getting a bonus like North Sea Oil.
    The Micawber strategy - something's bound to turn up

  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    Never really been able to get into Pratchett, though I'd like to. Where should I start?
    Guards, Guards
    Then continue with the City Watch series.

    or Wyrd Sister
    And continue with the Witches/Granny Weatherwax series.
  • Streeting looking chipper as he leaves Number 10.

    It’s on I reckon.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    malcolmg said:

    Might we see a joint ticket where one has got the looks and the other has got the brains?

    Not possible combination from Labour even if squinting into the sun.
    So, no Opportunities after all?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687
    Nigelb said:

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    The preferred cliche is now "at speed".
    (It still means slowly, or never.)
    Top three current bugbears:
    “Agentic”
    “Compute”
    “At Scale”

    All of which are meaningless buzzwords designed to confuse outgroups.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687
    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Coffee and biscuits with the boss.

    With no coffee, and no biscuits.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,928
    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    I'm really enjoying it, but deliberately taking it slowly.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    But still... never read Hamlet?

    Priorities, dear boy, priorities.

    In fairness your reading knocks mine into a cocked hat but I did pick up Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy in Waterstones at the weekend - hoping it's going to be interesting and educational.
    If it makes you feel any better, I do have the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Got most of the way through the comedies.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,914
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    The preferred cliche is now "at speed".
    (It still means slowly, or never.)
    Top three current bugbears:
    “Agentic”
    “Compute”
    “At Scale”

    All of which are meaningless buzzwords designed to confuse outgroups.
    Agentic is just Biztalk for the AI era...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,860

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Or £60 per person per week.

    Ruddy hell- that's a lot of underpants.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Maybe Starmer told him he hasnt followed the full and proper procedure to have a meeting and thus it never crossed his desk that a meeting had been arranged.
    He will take full responsibility and sack the person in charge of preparing the Meeting Request Forms.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,618
    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Interview without coffee ...
    It was reported as them meeting for coffee.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629

    Streeting looking chipper as he leaves Number 10.

    It’s on I reckon.

    JUST GET ON WITH IT
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Interview without coffee ...
    It was reported as them meeting for coffee.
    Espresso, was it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,618

    Streeting looking chipper as he leaves Number 10.

    It’s on I reckon.

    A quick double espresso, then.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132
    Nigelb said:

    geoffw said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Interview without coffee ...
    It was reported as them meeting for coffee.
    “If you want a coffee you have to tick the relevant box on the form Wes. That is the correct and proper process.”
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,429
    Nigelb said:

    FPT, for @Jim_Miller

    Off topic, but it is about an election we can learn something from:
    On August 1, 1831, he cast his first ballot. The polls were in the home of James Camron where [Abraham] Lincoln was boarding and getting acquainted with Camron's 11 daughters who teased him about his long legs and arms and heard him admit he "wasn't much to look at." Voting by word of mouth, each voter spoke to the election judges his candidates' names. A judge then called out the voter's name and his candidates, clerks recording the names "on poll sheets." Lincoln voted for a Henry Clay Whig for Congress--and against Joseph Duncan, then a Jackson man serving in Congress. He stayed around the polls most of the day talking cheerily, telling stories, making friends and getting acquainted with the names and faces of nearly all the men in the New Salem neighborhood.
    (From chapter 2 of Carl Sandburg's one volume biography, Abraham Lincoln
    .)

    I'd like to see a similar description of voting practices in the UK, about the same time.

    Read a Disraeli novel...

    Coningsby is set in the early 1830s.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coningsby_(novel)





    There is a fair bit about English electoral practice around 1850s/1860s in Trollope's 'Palliser' sequence of six novels. (Leon recently declared his contempt and hatred for Trollope, so he comes with an outstanding recommendation.) But in addition to how elections worked in the pre-secret ballot days the six novels offer weeks of unalloyed delight, only slightly falling off at the very end.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    The preferred cliche is now "at speed".
    (It still means slowly, or never.)
    Top three current bugbears:
    “Agentic”
    “Compute”
    “At Scale”

    All of which are meaningless buzzwords designed to confuse outgroups.
    Agentic is just Biztalk for the AI era...
    Yes it just means a computer program driven by AI of some sort.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    One thing that has become noticable in the last few days is the paucity of talent on the back benches benches. I'm not talking about leadership hopefuls either. There have been MPs claiming their 15 minutes who you wouldn't employ as a receptionist at Halfords. How were they able to get past selection panels? Polanski's latest from the world of plumbing is a rare exception.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,129
    edited May 13
    18 minutes from walking up Downing Street in front of the media and walking back down would indicate Streeting and Starmer told each other to sod off

    I expect it all to kick off this afternoon and through tomorrow

    They cannot both be in cabinet
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    The preferred cliche is now "at speed".
    (It still means slowly, or never.)
    Top three current bugbears:
    “Agentic”
    “Compute”
    “At Scale”

    All of which are meaningless buzzwords designed to confuse outgroups.
    Agentic is just Biztalk for the AI era...
    We're doing a lot of work in this area. Buzzword bingo.
    But it is a real thing, and novel, so new words and ways of talking about it are emerging.
    Still bloody annoying though
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    What a brilliant way to engineer a massive rebound of Dubai’s economy!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,618
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT, for @Jim_Miller

    Off topic, but it is about an election we can learn something from:
    On August 1, 1831, he cast his first ballot. The polls were in the home of James Camron where [Abraham] Lincoln was boarding and getting acquainted with Camron's 11 daughters who teased him about his long legs and arms and heard him admit he "wasn't much to look at." Voting by word of mouth, each voter spoke to the election judges his candidates' names. A judge then called out the voter's name and his candidates, clerks recording the names "on poll sheets." Lincoln voted for a Henry Clay Whig for Congress--and against Joseph Duncan, then a Jackson man serving in Congress. He stayed around the polls most of the day talking cheerily, telling stories, making friends and getting acquainted with the names and faces of nearly all the men in the New Salem neighborhood.
    (From chapter 2 of Carl Sandburg's one volume biography, Abraham Lincoln
    .)

    I'd like to see a similar description of voting practices in the UK, about the same time.

    Read a Disraeli novel...

    Coningsby is set in the early 1830s.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coningsby_(novel)

    There is a fair bit about English electoral practice around 1850s/1860s in Trollope's 'Palliser' sequence of six novels. (Leon recently declared his contempt and hatred for Trollope, so he comes with an outstanding recommendation.) But in addition to how elections worked in the pre-secret ballot days the six novels offer weeks of unalloyed delight, only slightly falling off at the very end.

    Coningsby is far, far shorter, though.
    And fun.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629

    18 minutes from walking up Downing Street in front of the media and walking back down would indicate Streeting and Starmer told each other to sod off

    I expect it all to kick off this afternoon and through tomorrow

    They canot both be in cabinet

    Starmer should sack him
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    I'm really enjoying it, but deliberately taking it slowly.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    But still... never read Hamlet?

    Priorities, dear boy, priorities.

    In fairness your reading knocks mine into a cocked hat but I did pick up Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy in Waterstones at the weekend - hoping it's going to be interesting and educational.
    If it makes you feel any better, I do have the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Got most of the way through the comedies.
    My comment was tongue in cheek. I am in awe of your reading range tbf.

    Anyway, enough of this banter, I am off to Citizens Advice to do battle with the DWP - who make HMRC look like paragons of efficiency.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    If thr King's Speech contains the phrase "at pace" then whoever wrote it needs shooting.

    The preferred cliche is now "at speed".
    (It still means slowly, or never.)
    Top three current bugbears:
    “Agentic”
    “Compute”
    “At Scale”

    All of which are meaningless buzzwords designed to confuse outgroups.
    Agentic is just Biztalk for the AI era...
    Yes it just means a computer program driven by AI of some sort.
    Ultimately, yes. But that rather oversimplifies things.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,379
    edited May 13
    nico67 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Maybe he was just telling the PM that he was going to launch a challenge and that’s why it was so short .
    A quick chorus of "You're shit, and we know you are..."

    (Obviously, to the tune of "Go Wes...")
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    edited May 13
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    What a brilliant way to engineer a massive rebound of Dubai’s economy!
    Yeah, I'd love to see these super-rich get their country estates through customs.

    Regarding the impact of these people on any economy, how much of their average £3bn (each!) wealth do you think the top 350 richest people pump into the economy each year?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,117
    nico67 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Streeting in and out of no 10 in just a few minutes....

    Maybe he was just telling the PM that he was going to launch a challenge and that’s why it was so short .
    Arranging a straightener in the car park of a flat roof pub, bare chested, probably.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,954
    This cant go on. You cant have a situation where you cant talk to half your cabinet because dont want to hear what they have to say, while also being too weak to be able to sack them.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,446
    nico67 said:

    In terms of Rayner and her tax issue .

    What can the Greens say now that Polanski has been caught out . Reform given Farages dodgy donations really should stay quiet . So that leaves the Tories and Lib Dem’s who can make political capital out of it .

    I still think it’s very risky for Labour to try and replace Starmer with Rayner until her tax issue has been resolved.

    Why it’s taking so long to resolve is hard to understand.

    I understood that she was contesting it
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,446
    Pro_Rata said:

    Ironic that PB Tories expect Labour plots to come to fruition in minutes or days and if not state they've fluffed it when the typical 'efficient' Tory despatch involved countless months of speculation and claims about the fullness of Graham Brady's sack.

    Surely you appreciate that Graham Brady’s Sack is a dignified part of the constitution and should be handled with care?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,618

    18 minutes from walking up Downing Street in front of the media and walking back down would indicate Streeting and Starmer told each other to sod off

    I expect it all to kick off this afternoon and through tomorrow

    They cannot both be in cabinet

    Who knows ?
    It's not as though Starmer is renowned for his smalltalk, and Streeting didn't take a book with him (as is my morning coffee practice*).

    *Currently reading Queen Caroline and Sir William Gell.
    The early 1800s are fascinating.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,242

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    Victor Meldrew?
    More like Santa Claus. There are a large number of fiscally delusional voters. The rise of Reform just confirms it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    It’s per year.

    So even if they don’t leave before your windfall tax and meekly bring all their assets onshore to be taxed, they won’t be there for year 2.

    So now you have a capital flight of Argentinian proportions, the deficit. And probably a small problem with the next bond auction.

    Because if you expropriating one bunch, everyone will figure they are next.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,117
    Does anyone know when Dr Morrissey is due to issue her independent SPA pension review ? It was supposed to be spring. I cannot find a date for it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,446
    Taz said:

    Prime Minister Burnham. This will not end well.



    She’s his proposed chancellor right?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,117

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    It’s per year.

    So even if they don’t leave before your windfall tax and meekly bring all their assets onshore to be taxed, they won’t be there for year 2.

    So now you have a capital flight of Argentinian proportions, the deficit. And probably a small problem with the next bond auction.

    Because if you expropriating one bunch, everyone will figure they are next.
    They could always try targetting some actual growth 🤞
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,446

    nico67 said:

    In terms of Rayner and her tax issue .

    What can the Greens say now that Polanski has been caught out . Reform given Farages dodgy donations really should stay quiet . So that leaves the Tories and Lib Dem’s who can make political capital out of it .

    I still think it’s very risky for Labour to try and replace Starmer with Rayner until her tax issue has been resolved.

    Why it’s taking so long to resolve is hard to understand.

    The whole Raymer thing that people forget is what really sunk her wasnt the tax issue, there was a bit of sympathy for it, until it was revealed she tried to throw lawyers under the bus by telling a load of lies and of course they had receipts to sbow she was a liar.
    Up to a point. It depends on a technical reading of a message that would escape most normal people.
    The bit that says “take legal advice”? What does that mean?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,379

    This cant go on. You cant have a situation where you cant talk to half your cabinet because dont want to hear what they have to say, while also being too weak to be able to sack them.

    Mr Bond Market will be along shortly, to irritably tap his fingers...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,429
    edited May 13
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yep, so that they wipe out the deficit and start repaying the debt mountains at a meaningful pace. If they could only do that then the bond markets would indeed fall in line. Always happy to lend to people who don't actually need it, as you will know.
    I don't know if DavidL reads sassenach law reports, but this one is a stage in an interesting process, likely to be protracted, of testing the extent to which a KC can tell the jury that the judge is an idiot who has got the law wrong and should be ignored by a right minded jury, before someone stops the fun; and if there are sanctions, who has the right to order and run the process.

    To be read in parallel with R v Farooqi, 2013, which is a classic text on barristers telling judges to get stuffed, and should be the basis of a stage play.

    https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Judgment-Rajiv-Menon-KC-CA-2026-000767-1.pdf?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,129
    Roger said:

    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.

    You are just putting Farage into no 10 if you think that is the way forward
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,132
    Roger said:

    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.

    Starmer is incapable of doing anything radical. We saw that on Monday. If he was suddenly going to start pulling rabbits out of hats, he had the opportunity to do so. He cannot.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,117

    This cant go on. You cant have a situation where you cant talk to half your cabinet because dont want to hear what they have to say, while also being too weak to be able to sack them.

    Mr Bond Market will be along shortly, to irritably tap his fingers...
    Well, as Burnham said last year and his outrider said yesterday, effectively screw them. They cannot tell what to do.

    That will end well.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    edited May 13

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    It’s per year.

    So even if they don’t leave before your windfall tax and meekly bring all their assets onshore to be taxed, they won’t be there for year 2.

    So now you have a capital flight of Argentinian proportions, the deficit. And probably a small problem with the next bond auction.

    Because if you expropriating one bunch, everyone will figure they are next.
    I wasn't being 100% serious to be truthful.

    However... we're fucked. Neoliberalism isn't working we need to try something different.

    History shows that ''efficiency savings' and 'getting more people off benefits' are about as plausible as setting up golden egg geese farms, so do please let me know your solution.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 629
    Roger said:

    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.

    Bit early to be hitting the sauce, Roger.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,928

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    I'm really enjoying it, but deliberately taking it slowly.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    But still... never read Hamlet?

    Priorities, dear boy, priorities.

    In fairness your reading knocks mine into a cocked hat but I did pick up Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy in Waterstones at the weekend - hoping it's going to be interesting and educational.
    If it makes you feel any better, I do have the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Got most of the way through the comedies.
    My comment was tongue in cheek. I am in awe of your reading range tbf.

    Anyway, enough of this banter, I am off to Citizens Advice to do battle with the DWP - who make HMRC look like paragons of efficiency.
    Good luck. Hopefully you don't have to go Li Kui on them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    I'm really enjoying it, but deliberately taking it slowly.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    But still... never read Hamlet?

    Priorities, dear boy, priorities.

    In fairness your reading knocks mine into a cocked hat but I did pick up Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy in Waterstones at the weekend - hoping it's going to be interesting and educational.
    If it makes you feel any better, I do have the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Got most of the way through the comedies.
    My comment was tongue in cheek. I am in awe of your reading range tbf.

    Anyway, enough of this banter, I am off to Citizens Advice to do battle with the DWP - who make HMRC look like paragons of efficiency.
    Good luck. Hopefully you don't have to go Li Kui on them.
    Where's the emoji for 'that went right over my head'?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726
    Luke Tryl
    @LukeTryl
    49m
    In our first Westminster VI after the local elections, Reform’s lead increases to 9pts over Labour

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+2)
    🌹 LAB 21% (nc)
    🌳 CON 19% (-1)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 14% (+2)
    ❓OTH 2% (-3)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    https://xcancel.com/LukeTryl/status/2054463047956119816/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    I've got a solution that'd displease both the left and the right. Rejoin the EU and apply to join the Euro.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,134

    Pro_Rata said:

    Ironic that PB Tories expect Labour plots to come to fruition in minutes or days and if not state they've fluffed it when the typical 'efficient' Tory despatch involved countless months of speculation and claims about the fullness of Graham Brady's sack.

    Surely you appreciate that Graham Brady’s Sack is a dignified part of the constitution and should be handled with care?
    The Lab MPs have decision to make re Starmer: back, sack, or crack :smiley:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687
    edited May 13
    Taz said:

    This cant go on. You cant have a situation where you cant talk to half your cabinet because dont want to hear what they have to say, while also being too weak to be able to sack them.

    Mr Bond Market will be along shortly, to irritably tap his fingers...
    Well, as Burnham said last year and his outrider said yesterday, effectively screw them. They cannot tell what to do.

    That will end well.
    When debt-to-GDP is knocking on the door of 100% and rising more than 4% per year, the government works for the bond markets and not the other way around.

    Ask Liz Truss how that ends.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,446

    Sorry, but Streeting?

    I don't see Streeting vs Farage as anything other than a first round knockout. Punters will be angrily demanding their money back.

    I like Wes Streeting, he absolutely socked it to striking doctors.

    He's got a compelling backstory.
    Does that make you a Wes Side Boy?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,058
    edited May 13
    My assumptions:

    50% prob Tomorrow, Streeting will announce he is standing.
    If so, Rayner will also stand to keep the seat warm for Burnham's return to the Commons (that's the deal)
    Starmer will also contest.
    Winner will be Rayner, 50%; Starmer 40%; Streeting 10%.

    50% prob. No-one will stand until Burnham is back in the Commons and stands.
    Only Starmer stands against him.
    Winner will be Burnham 90%: Starmer 10%.

    So odds on next PM:

    Burnham 45% 2.2 (current odds 3.1 value)
    Rayner 25% 4.0 (current odds 6.0 value)
    Streeting 5% 20.0 (current odds 6.6 not value)

    The other 25% is Starmer staying until next election when next PM includes Farage, Badenoch as well as the above three.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,928

    DavidL said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    Concentrate on Thief of time. I've read it 6 or 7 times and still find new jokes. Peak Pratchett.
    I'm really enjoying it, but deliberately taking it slowly.

    Good morning, everyone.

    I wonder how long this situation will linger.

    Labour MPs = Hamlet
    Ha, I've yet to read that. But I did play through a Hamlet-themed area in a wonderful MUD called FatalDimensions almost 30 years ago...
    You should, it got me hooked on Shakespeare.
    My to-read pile is already indicative of someone with a problem. I'm partway through Leo VI's Taktika, and then have books on Egyptian, Greek, and Japanese history lined up. I'm halfway into book 1 of 5 of The Marshes of Mount Liang. And 90 pages into Thief of Time, after which I have over half a dozen fiction books ready to go (including re-acquainting myself with Timothy Zahn's excellent Thrawn trilogy in the Star Wars EU, that Kennedy idiotically threw into a bonfire).
    But still... never read Hamlet?

    Priorities, dear boy, priorities.

    In fairness your reading knocks mine into a cocked hat but I did pick up Empire of the Deep: The Rise and Fall of the British Navy in Waterstones at the weekend - hoping it's going to be interesting and educational.
    If it makes you feel any better, I do have the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Got most of the way through the comedies.
    My comment was tongue in cheek. I am in awe of your reading range tbf.

    Anyway, enough of this banter, I am off to Citizens Advice to do battle with the DWP - who make HMRC look like paragons of efficiency.
    Good luck. Hopefully you don't have to go Li Kui on them.
    Where's the emoji for 'that went right over my head'?
    He's essentially a bloodthirsty violent lunatic axe murderer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,954
    Selebian said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Ironic that PB Tories expect Labour plots to come to fruition in minutes or days and if not state they've fluffed it when the typical 'efficient' Tory despatch involved countless months of speculation and claims about the fullness of Graham Brady's sack.

    Surely you appreciate that Graham Brady’s Sack is a dignified part of the constitution and should be handled with care?
    The Lab MPs have decision to make re Starmer: back, sack, or crack :smiley:
    If this was to carry on too much longer we will all be on the crack.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518
    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    It’s per year.

    So even if they don’t leave before your windfall tax and meekly bring all their assets onshore to be taxed, they won’t be there for year 2.

    So now you have a capital flight of Argentinian proportions, the deficit. And probably a small problem with the next bond auction.

    Because if you expropriating one bunch, everyone will figure they are next.
    They could always try targetting some actual growth 🤞
    Targeting growth is like “I will start a targeted gym and sport program every day. Within 4 years I will be doing 2000m on a rowing erg in 6 minutes*”

    Lots of people say that. The number who do that is somewhat smaller

    *if you did that, you would recruited for the UK Olympic rowing team.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,339

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Council pensions to be run by US crypto exchange
    Digital currency trading firm backed by Peter Thiel buys company that administers local government scheme

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/05/council-pensions-to-be-run-by-us-crypto-exchange/ (£££)

    This illustrates the problem. British firms being flogged off to foreigners so that future profits, dividends and taxes (and even government subsidies) are sent abroad rather than supporting our economy. And all nodded through by an Establishment that can't tell the difference between genuine foreign investment and asset stripping.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,320
    Barnesian said:

    My assumptions:

    50% prob Tomorrow, Streeting will announce he is standing.
    If so, Rayner will also stand to keep the seat warm for Burnham's return to the Commons (that's the deal)
    Starmer will also contest.
    Winner will be Rayner, 50%; Starmer 40%; Streeting 10%.

    50% prob. No-one will stand until Burnham is back in the Commons and stands.
    Only Starmer stands against him.
    Winner will be Burnham 90%: Starmer 10%.

    So odds on next PM:

    Burnham 45% 2.2 (current odds 3.1 value)
    Rayner 25% 4.0 (current odds 6.0 value)
    Streeting 5% 20.0 (current odds 6.6 not value)

    The other 25% is Starmer staying until next election when next PM includes Farage, Badenoch as well as the above three.

    I don’t see Rayner getting to be PM and then handing it over to Burnham . That would look ridiculous to the public and I don’t believe any politician is that altruistic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    Barnesian said:

    My assumptions:

    50% prob Tomorrow, Streeting will announce he is standing.
    If so, Rayner will also stand to keep the seat warm for Burnham's return to the Commons (that's the deal)
    Starmer will also contest.
    Winner will be Rayner, 50%; Starmer 40%; Streeting 10%.

    50% prob. No-one will stand until Burnham is back in the Commons and stands.
    Only Starmer stands against him.
    Winner will be Burnham 90%: Starmer 10%.

    So odds on next PM:

    Burnham 45% 2.2 (current odds 3.1 value)
    Rayner 25% 4.0 (current odds 6.0 value)
    Streeting 5% 20.0 (current odds 6.6 not value)

    The other 25% is Starmer staying until next election when next PM includes Farage, Badenoch as well as the above three.

    Rayner standing as a placeholder for Burnham ??? I don't think she can do that even if she wants to.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518
    Sweeney74 said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.

    Bit early to be hitting the sauce, Roger.
    Sweeney74 said:

    Roger said:

    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.

    Bit early to be hitting the sauce, Roger.
    He’s wishcasting being the recipient of a huge ad buy…
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    edited May 13

    Roger said:

    Starmer if he wants to keep his job has to devote his remaining time to reclaiming our place at the very centre of Europe. Ride roughshod through all Labour doubters if there are any.

    It'll put him on a collision course with Farage in a contest that he's certain to win. He needs to do exactly what the the government did in 2016 but in reverse.

    Put his best brains on the job and be single minded. Get everything right that Cameron's mob got wrong accompanied by a huge advertising campaign.

    Starmer is incapable of doing anything radical. We saw that on Monday. If he was suddenly going to start pulling rabbits out of hats, he had the opportunity to do so. He cannot.
    Has Streeting been advocating for anything radical? PR? A wealth tax? Abolishing the Lords? Raising revenue...how? Streeting might take an axe to some parts of the welfare system to raise some money for health and education, and force that through his unwilling party - although his background might make him cautious in that regard. But what else? The only real argument for Streeting is that he might be able to sell Starmer's stuff a bit better.

    The biggest argument for Burnham is that he has at least got some sort of platform being put together
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,117

    Taz said:

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    It’s per year.

    So even if they don’t leave before your windfall tax and meekly bring all their assets onshore to be taxed, they won’t be there for year 2.

    So now you have a capital flight of Argentinian proportions, the deficit. And probably a small problem with the next bond auction.

    Because if you expropriating one bunch, everyone will figure they are next.
    They could always try targetting some actual growth 🤞
    Targeting growth is like “I will start a targeted gym and sport program every day. Within 4 years I will be doing 2000m on a rowing erg in 6 minutes*”

    Lots of people say that. The number who do that is somewhat smaller

    *if you did that, you would recruited for the UK Olympic rowing team.
    Yes, like me targetting being good and cutting down on my eating and drinking to lose a few pounds, I’d guess 😃
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,117
    nico67 said:

    Barnesian said:

    My assumptions:

    50% prob Tomorrow, Streeting will announce he is standing.
    If so, Rayner will also stand to keep the seat warm for Burnham's return to the Commons (that's the deal)
    Starmer will also contest.
    Winner will be Rayner, 50%; Starmer 40%; Streeting 10%.

    50% prob. No-one will stand until Burnham is back in the Commons and stands.
    Only Starmer stands against him.
    Winner will be Burnham 90%: Starmer 10%.

    So odds on next PM:

    Burnham 45% 2.2 (current odds 3.1 value)
    Rayner 25% 4.0 (current odds 6.0 value)
    Streeting 5% 20.0 (current odds 6.6 not value)

    The other 25% is Starmer staying until next election when next PM includes Farage, Badenoch as well as the above three.

    I don’t see Rayner getting to be PM and then handing it over to Burnham . That would look ridiculous to the public and I don’t believe any politician is that altruistic.
    Why would she do that ?

    I’d agree with you.

    It would be mad.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,339
    Foss said:

    Luke Tryl
    @LukeTryl
    49m
    In our first Westminster VI after the local elections, Reform’s lead increases to 9pts over Labour

    ➡️ REF UK 30% (+2)
    🌹 LAB 21% (nc)
    🌳 CON 19% (-1)
    🌍 GREEN 11% (-1)
    🔶 LIB DEM 14% (+2)
    ❓OTH 2% (-3)
    🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

    https://xcancel.com/LukeTryl/status/2054463047956119816/

    Look I know it's a time-honoured custom but what's the flipping point in giving a UK-wide figure for the SNP?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,446

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    It's all very well being King of the North or able to win in Ilford, but it's the huge tracts of suburbia across the county where elections are won and lost.

    Who can appeal to them?

    That was an insightful piece that someone posted on the previous thread, that removing SKS only removes the problem of SKS being leader. It doesn't change any of the underlying issues.
    Indeed. Do we know what Burnham, Streeting, Rayner, or anyone else who thinks they are a contender would actually do? What new policies would be pursued?


    https://bsky.app/profile/generalboles.bsky.social/post/3mlm4ouq4fs2s
    That is really funny. A genuine LOL.
    Last month I spoke to a former Treasury SPAD, the brutal reality is that the government, this one or the next one needs to find £200 billion a year in tax revenues to become popular.
    Yet there's no surer way to be unpopular that to extract it via taxes or debt (–> higher interest rates)

    Slap a one-off 25% windfall tax on the UK's 500 richest people. That would net £200bn straight away.
    So that’s one year covered and then a bigger deficit the next year when they leave
This discussion has been closed.