I don’t get the logic of all these MPs calling for Starmer to resign when a quick leadership contest will screw Burnham and Rayner .
Unless that is they don’t want any of those 2.
Presumably that's the point of "a timetable"- i.e. Starmer needs to hang around as a lame duck for as long as it takes for my fave to become available.
There were some Italian Job references in the last thread. Here's another one.
Team Burnham were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off.
This has all the makings of a total clusterfxck .
Starmer isn’t going to hang around for 5 months as a lame duck . The Burnham fan club must be close to tears !
It is the Labour Party, thus they are a select group of the most useless idiots the country has available. I'm entirely unsurprised that they can't even organise a leadership challenge effectively.
More fundamentally, let's imagine by some means Burnham was gifted the job on a plate tomorrow. What then?
The bond market will go nuts if he tries to increase borrowing. The back benches will go nuts if he tries to cut spending. The country has already gone nuts because they've increased taxes.
Wibbling on about a decade of national renewable, and some breakfast clubs, but in a Northern accent isn't going to cut if for very long.
IMHO, assuming Burnham doesn't spook the bond markets (in which case all bets are off) the most likely outcome is that he'll do the same stuff as Starmer, and in a years time he'll be about as popular.
Labour MP Lorraine Beavers also calling for PM to go. She says: “I wanted to give the Prime Minister the chance to set out that change this morning. It was a passionate speech – passion I wish I’d heard more often from the Prime Minister over the last two years.
“But the content of the speech did not suggest anything close to the scale of change needed to rebuild communities like mine. I believe that the Prime Minister should announce a timetable for leaving office. We must have a new leader in place well in advance of next year’s local elections. For our Party to rediscover its connection with working-class communities like mine, we need a democratic contest involving the most talented leaders from across our movement."
I'd be really encouraged by the line a democratic contest involving the most talented leaders from across our movement, but I suspect she means Mr Burnham.
She endorsed Corbyn in 2015. Maybe she thinks they should welcome him back and make him PM.
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
Labour were stupid to allow Corbyn two goes and shouldn’t repeat the mistake . And Miliband is a backstabbing Judas who set the train in motion towards Brexit . Cameron would not have got that majority if David Miliband had won the leadership.
Yes. Miliband would be a fecking disaster
Who does Farage fear most?
Probably Streeting. Maybe Burnham
He’d be happy with Miliband and delighted by Rayner
To be fair, he fucked it prior to 2024 when he chose not to stand down as GM Mayor and walk into a parliamentary seat at the GE, and his hands have been tied ever since since.
What he's messed up since is in his refusal to accept reality. I've been saying for some time that he should get behind Rayner or Miliband in the hope that some of his popularity rubs off on them. In return he could demand a promise of ennoblement and a very senior Cabinet post to allow him to role out "Manchesterism" across the country. Maybe he will now.
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
Labour were stupid to allow Corbyn two goes and shouldn’t repeat the mistake . And Miliband is a backstabbing Judas who set the train in motion towards Brexit . Cameron would not have got that majority if David Miliband had won the leadership.
If he couldn't beat his brother I don't believe he would have beaten Cameron, or significantly improved the position.
So if the Cabinet is moving swiftly how does Burnham play it? He cannot officially say it is unfair to hold off, and if he says the PM needs time to attempt to right the ship everyone will know he's a liar.
So if the Cabinet is moving swiftly how does Burnham play it? He cannot officially say it is unfair to hold off, and if he says the PM needs time to attempt to right the ship everyone will know he's a liar.
IMV, he’ll get into parliament and hope for a cabinet position which honestly any candidate would be mad to turn down.
Not as student politiciany as he seemed at first glance, has made some appropriate noises from time to time, probably reasonably competent, but I don't think he has the charisma of Rayner or the popularity of Miliband (in the party), and there seems to be a substantial number of members who hate him because they think he's neo-Farage or something.
So I don't see how he is the best choice to improve fortunes.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 59s The plan is to break the 80 threshold tonight or early tomorrow. Then present Starmer with the reality at Cabinet.
The 81 have to sponsor a single specific candidate.
Edit: or are these all Streeters?
According to the rules, yes.
But not many Prime Ministerial transitions are completely by the rulebook.
But if Burnham and Rayner are hors d'combat, who leads Team Don't Like Wes?
Not sure. Ed Miliband maybe. Some baggage there though.
Fwiw I don't see why Rayner can't go for it, HMRC or no HMRC. That's a burger of very little with no sauce in this age of leading politicians taking £5m in secret straight cash from offshore tycoons and bending policy to suit.
Rayner was poor today. No guile, no comedy, just sucking up to Burnham. I am leaning towards the tight suited Streeting
Leaders aren't necessarily the engine room of a government. I can easily see Labour going for a uninspiring captain and hoping that their real intellectuals (they think, but obviously don't have) drive the agenda.
Thus it's David Lammy!
Very unlikely I would have thought.
I think very unlikely too, but if Labour isn't to spiral into the dust and the country with it then avoiding some of the front runners in the betting seems wise. (Burnham, Rayner, Milliband - all of these would be a disaster. It'd be a suicide note to the IMF rather than a begging letter. Streeting would do a bit better - a month or so, and then be ambushed.)
Not as student politiciany as he seemed at first glance, has made some appropriate noises from time to time, probably reasonably competent, but I don't think he has the charisma of Rayner or the popularity of Miliband (in the party), and there seems to be a substantial number of members who hate him because they think he's neo-Farage or something.
So I don't see how he is the best choice to improve fortunes.
I don’t buy this Rayner charisma argument. The speech she gave earlier was dreadful.
This is seeming just a little too coordinated and planned to me. Is Streeting behind it? Who knows but someone is.
Ben Riley-Smith @benrileysmith Wes Streeting's PPS and the Labour MP moderate in the next-door constituency to him have both publicly called for Starmer to go in the last hour.
Being seen by some of the Left that the Health Sec has given the signal for his backers to move on Starmer. Could Streeting say something in the next 24hrs?
"The Scottish Greens MSP who won their Holyrood seat on a student visa has said they have applied for a graduate visa which will let them stay in the UK for the next three years.
"Q Manivannan, a Tamil Indian who recently gained a PhD from St Andrews University and identifies as trans, was elected to the Scottish parliament last Friday on the Edinburgh and Lothians East regional list, helping the Scottish Greens win a record 15 seats.
"Despite having no UK citizenship or permanent residency, Manivannan was allowed to stand for Holyrood under recent rule changes which allow anyone living in Scotland to contest devolved elections."
Not as student politiciany as he seemed at first glance, has made some appropriate noises from time to time, probably reasonably competent, but I don't think he has the charisma of Rayner or the popularity of Miliband (in the party), and there seems to be a substantial number of members who hate him because they think he's neo-Farage or something.
So I don't see how he is the best choice to improve fortunes.
There is no "best choice", that's why this is so agonising. The lack of talent is extraordinary for a government with 400 MPs
All they have is a series of least bad options. Of those, I reckon Wes gets it, but then he's on the right of the party, so he appeals to me more. That might rule him out for many
To be honest I don't know a huge amount about him and yet I suspect I know a lot more than most the population. I think he has been right to stand up to the BMA. He seems very focused on improving the NHS and not by yet another pointless reorganisation. He is clearly on the right of the Labour party. He seems to have a much clearer idea of what he wants and what he intends to do than Starmer (very low bar alert). Not a great orator. Not sure he can hold the party together. Not sure he has enough allies. There is a danger of him being another Starmer with no real roots or natural supporters in the party.
This is seeming just a little too coordinated and planned to me. Is Streeting behind it? Who knows but someone is.
1. Who benefits from a quick kill, whilst his rivals are unavailable or have a cloud hanging over them? 2. Whose PPS has resigned? 3. Who has experience of the effective backstabbing to get office world of the NUS?
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
Labour were stupid to allow Corbyn two goes and shouldn’t repeat the mistake . And Miliband is a backstabbing Judas who set the train in motion towards Brexit . Cameron would not have got that majority if David Miliband had won the leadership.
Yes. Miliband would be a fecking disaster
Who does Farage fear most?
Probably Streeting. Maybe Burnham
He’d be happy with Miliband and delighted by Rayner
Tho, TBH, I doubt he’s scared of any of them
This is all great fun for us political junkies in here ! Maybe someone will pop up and we’ll end up with a surprise.
Streeting is a good communicator, but has a tiny majority, another London leader, and no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room.
Burnham has blown his chance unless Labour MPs stop asking Starmer to go .
Rayner , gobby , very Marmite but great back story and it would be a real change to the type of PM we’re used to.
To be honest I don't know a huge amount about him and yet I suspect I know a lot more than most the population. I think he has been right to stand up to the BMA. He seems very focused on improving the NHS and not by yet another pointless reorganisation. He is clearly on the right of the Labour party. He seems to have a much clearer idea of what he wants and what he intends to do than Starmer (very low bar alert). Not a great orator. Not sure he can hold the party together. Not sure he has enough allies. There is a danger of him being another Starmer with no real roots or natural supporters in the party.
He’s done a lot more politics than Starmer. And I think he does natural allies in the party from what I’ve heard.
He’s also actually working class even if he’s from the south. But at least he sounds it.
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
Labour were stupid to allow Corbyn two goes and shouldn’t repeat the mistake . And Miliband is a backstabbing Judas who set the train in motion towards Brexit . Cameron would not have got that majority if David Miliband had won the leadership.
Yes. Miliband would be a fecking disaster
Who does Farage fear most?
Probably Streeting. Maybe Burnham
He’d be happy with Miliband and delighted by Rayner
Tho, TBH, I doubt he’s scared of any of them
This is all great fun for us political junkies in here ! Maybe someone will pop up and we’ll end up with a surprise.
Streeting is a good communicator, but has a tiny majority, another London leader, and no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room.
But the Indies underperformed in Redbridge last Thursday.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
Labour were stupid to allow Corbyn two goes and shouldn’t repeat the mistake . And Miliband is a backstabbing Judas who set the train in motion towards Brexit . Cameron would not have got that majority if David Miliband had won the leadership.
Yes. Miliband would be a fecking disaster
Who does Farage fear most?
Probably Streeting. Maybe Burnham
He’d be happy with Miliband and delighted by Rayner
Tho, TBH, I doubt he’s scared of any of them
This is all great fun for us political junkies in here ! Maybe someone will pop up and we’ll end up with a surprise.
Streeting is a good communicator, but has a tiny majority, another London leader, and no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room.
Burnham has blown his chance unless Labour MPs stop asking Starmer to go .
Rayner , gobby , very Marmite but great back story and it would be a real change to the type of PM we’re used to.
Miliband I agree would be a disaster .
So it could be we do get a surprise .
Agreed
Rayner is the interesting wild card
Politics is 90% timing, and Andy "Nice Spectacles" Burnham has not got the timing right
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
Labour were stupid to allow Corbyn two goes and shouldn’t repeat the mistake . And Miliband is a backstabbing Judas who set the train in motion towards Brexit . Cameron would not have got that majority if David Miliband had won the leadership.
Yes. Miliband would be a fecking disaster
Who does Farage fear most?
Probably Streeting. Maybe Burnham
He’d be happy with Miliband and delighted by Rayner
Tho, TBH, I doubt he’s scared of any of them
This is all great fun for us political junkies in here ! Maybe someone will pop up and we’ll end up with a surprise.
Streeting is a good communicator, but has a tiny majority, another London leader, and no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room.
Burnham has blown his chance unless Labour MPs stop asking Starmer to go .
Rayner , gobby , very Marmite but great back story and it would be a real change to the type of PM we’re used to.
Miliband I agree would be a disaster .
So it could be we do get a surprise .
Agreed
Rayner is the interesting wild card
Politics is 90% timing, and Andy "Nice Spectacles" Burnham has not got the timing right
The great saviour having been the the great loser twice before. It's hard to see, but the betting says otherwise.
This is seeming just a little too coordinated and planned to me. Is Streeting behind it? Who knows but someone is.
Ben Riley-Smith @benrileysmith Wes Streeting's PPS and the Labour MP moderate in the next-door constituency to him have both publicly called for Starmer to go in the last hour.
Being seen by some of the Left that the Health Sec has given the signal for his backers to move on Starmer. Could Streeting say something in the next 24hrs?
Its Andy Burnham I feel sorry for. He can't get his PPS to quit. All he can do is get Sir Graham Stringer to retire and hope for a delay in the Starmer ousting.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
That exchange could have gone better.
Given several million of the personalities involved, how could it go better?
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
We need some positivity and optimism. Thar's not easy or even deserved sometimes, but we should at least be open to it.
Reminds me of Youtube a bit. Shitting on stuff is usually more popular content, but there's positive stuff out there.
He’s dreadful and will probably lose his seat in the next GE. Ed Milliband is the best of a rather poor bunch. Poor pickings for Labour. 30 years ago, things were different talent-wise in the Labour Party.
getting out ahead of this right now - we simply do not claim wes streeting as the first gay PM
a man who has thrown trans people under the bus, who backs govt attacks on lgbtq migrants, on poc, on working class etc is not emblematic of our movement+ is certainly no trailblazer
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
That exchange could have gone better.
Given several million of the personalities involved, how could it go better?
Bridget Phillipson it’s your time to shine ! Anyone but Miliband .
I quite like milliband
He failed once and that should be the end . If he ends up as PM they will be obliterated at the next GE .
I know it's the modern fashion but the UK does have a long history of PMs, several highly rated, who have lost a GE and become PM later
I'm not saying Ed M would be one, but they let Corbyn have 2 goes FFS, and it would really annoy the PB luddites.
In five-party politics being fondly thought of by the ~30% who voted for "Chaos with Ed Miliband" in 2015, and remember what they got instead, is more important than annoying the rest of the voters who voted against him.
30% is very plausibly going to be enough for a majority at the next GE. Red Ed is a more likely route to that result than Starmer, Streeting or Burnham. I haven't made my mind up about Rayner.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
The thread header is right to remind us of Brown and the price Labour MPs paid for their failure to act against him. But the history of their party and its structures are against them. Its really, really hard to remove a sitting Labour PM unless they choose to go. And Starmer is digging in. Tough times for Labour. Tough times for the country they purport to govern.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
That exchange could have gone better.
My priority is UK plc and its residents. I desperately want someone to get a grip and start to address our problems. Starmer just isn't it. If Streeting gets it I will genuinely wish him well without holding back when I disagree. We are in a perilous and difficult situation. Its long past time our politicians of all stripes stopped lying about how bad things are. If he is brave enough to do this I will cheer him on.
Streeting may have a tiny majority but in his patch he actually did pretty well in the local elections.
It really doesn’t matter. Anybody who takes over has to convince enough of the country to vote Labour for a second term. If they do, most of them will be safe. If they don’t, they wont be. The size of the majority is irrelevant unless they are absolutely hapless and unable to seize the initiative, in which case, what’s the fucking point
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Greatness? He's on the verge of becoming Leader of the Labour Party. It doesn't get much lower...
getting out ahead of this right now - we simply do not claim wes streeting as the first gay PM
a man who has thrown trans people under the bus, who backs govt attacks on lgbtq migrants, on poc, on working class etc is not emblematic of our movement+ is certainly no trailblazer
I don't think not 'claiming' him would make him not gay. What a bizarre possessiveness.
Are all gay men supposed to have the same political views? Famously the UK parliament has gay people of many political stripes, hence possibly being the gayest.
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Greatness? He's on the verge of becoming Leader of the Labour Party. It doesn't get much lower...
Imagine if Labour goes all through this agony, installs Wes or Ange or Whoever, and then the polls do not budge one iota. And the new PM is, within weeks, as unpopular as Skyr
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Greatness? He's on the verge of becoming Leader of the Labour Party. It doesn't get much lower...
Becoming First Lord of the Treasury is greatness like becoming editor of PB.
Imagine if Labour goes all through this agony, installs Wes or Ange or Whoever, and then the polls do not budge one iota. And the new PM is, within weeks, as unpopular as Skyr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
If that happens, it’s not like it wasn’t worth a try
Market pretty sure he's going but not at all sure who is getting it. If not Streeting I'm taking a bath. Tense situation here as well as at Westminster.
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
That exchange could have gone better.
My priority is UK plc and its residents. I desperately want someone to get a grip and start to address our problems. Starmer just isn't it. If Streeting gets it I will genuinely wish him well without holding back when I disagree. We are in a perilous and difficult situation. Its long past time our politicians of all stripes stopped lying about how bad things are. If he is brave enough to do this I will cheer him on.
He won't. The party and public are not ready to hear it, even though both are cynical about things.
Imagine if Labour goes all through this agony, installs Wes or Ange or Whoever, and then the polls do not budge one iota. And the new PM is, within weeks, as unpopular as Skyr
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Greatness? He's on the verge of becoming Leader of the Labour Party. It doesn't get much lower...
Becoming First Lord of the Treasury is greatness like becoming editor of PB.
Imagine if Labour goes all through this agony, installs Wes or Ange or Whoever, and then the polls do not budge one iota. And the new PM is, within weeks, as unpopular as Skyr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
If that happens, it’s not like it wasn’t worth a try
Yes, very good point
They don't have much choice. They are hurtling into oblivion under Starmer. It's time to roll the dice, and after all this palaver, they need to get rolling soon - like, this week, or tonight - or the painful slowness will make everything worse. The voters quickly learned to despise the Tories for their endless navel gazing leader swaps
getting out ahead of this right now - we simply do not claim wes streeting as the first gay PM
a man who has thrown trans people under the bus, who backs govt attacks on lgbtq migrants, on poc, on working class etc is not emblematic of our movement+ is certainly no trailblazer
I don't think not 'claiming' him would make him not gay. What a bizarre possessiveness.
Are all gay men supposed to have the same political views? Famously the UK parliament has gay people of many political stripes, hence possibly being the gayest.
And equally famously, activists hate lots of them.
I'm trying to recall which Tory minister they tried to "out" - apart from the minor fact he was openly gay. The "outers" seemed even more upset by the fact that gay activists denouncing an openly gay man as gay caused barely a ripple.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 59s The plan is to break the 80 threshold tonight or early tomorrow. Then present Starmer with the reality at Cabinet.
The 81 have to sponsor a single specific candidate.
Edit: or are these all Streeters?
Oh good, just what the Labour Party needs - a North London MP and ex-student union leader. The red wall will rejoice. Labour MPs from Wigan and Tameside and Wakefield will be breathing a sigh of relief.
Well, you don't need to be from the Red Wall to appeal to the Red Wall - Boris and Farage proved that - but whilst I think Streeting is ok I don't see broad appeal in him.
No, that's fair. But Labour does seem rather fond of men either from or representing North London.
It is north of the river, but it is very certainly not North London
To be honest I don't know a huge amount about him and yet I suspect I know a lot more than most the population. I think he has been right to stand up to the BMA. He seems very focused on improving the NHS and not by yet another pointless reorganisation. He is clearly on the right of the Labour party. He seems to have a much clearer idea of what he wants and what he intends to do than Starmer (very low bar alert). Not a great orator. Not sure he can hold the party together. Not sure he has enough allies. There is a danger of him being another Starmer with no real roots or natural supporters in the party.
I see Streeting as a more competent version of Starmer. I think he's too wedded to the political triangulations of Blairism to deal with both the present problems of the country, or the modern political divisions.
But, he's unlikely to crash and burn by scaring off the bond market in the way that Burnham would.
Imagine if Labour goes all through this agony, installs Wes or Ange or Whoever, and then the polls do not budge one iota. And the new PM is, within weeks, as unpopular as Skyr
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Unlikely with Wes.
To offer you a tiny shred of that positivity you want, I agree with this
The simple act of replacing Starmer - if they hurry the F up - should at least allow a decent bounce in the polls. New leader, fresh face, Starmer is loathed but he will, one hopes, take a lot of that loathing with him
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
Perhaps he was joking. But if he's serious - give over
Imagine if I said, after a Reform win in the General Election,
"Right, everyone on PB has to give Farage a chance, I don't want to see any criticism for at least a year. We need positivity"
@kinabalu wold be the first to tell me to go jump down a tin mine, and he'd be justified
There's that speech that defeated party leaders used to give, that went something like:
"We wish the new government well, for it is in the nation's interests that we are ruled well. We will back them when they are right, and challenge them when they are wrong..."
Oily tosh, of course. But useful oil, for all that. Its loss is one of the reasons that the conversation is so scratchy these days.
And some of the allegations about Starmer on the spicier bits of social media are unhinged.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
That exchange could have gone better.
My priority is UK plc and its residents. I desperately want someone to get a grip and start to address our problems. Starmer just isn't it. If Streeting gets it I will genuinely wish him well without holding back when I disagree. We are in a perilous and difficult situation. Its long past time our politicians of all stripes stopped lying about how bad things are. If he is brave enough to do this I will cheer him on.
I guess for all of us. Undoubtedly many would disagree, but taking the bull by the horns on spending is absolutely vital. Welfare is a luxury - I know that'll rouse all sorts of people, but it is. We need to slowly and carefully cut out all sorts of people from the welfare bill. We also should stop the pensioners from their triple lock.
The thread header is right to remind us of Brown and the price Labour MPs paid for their failure to act against him. But the history of their party and its structures are against them. Its really, really hard to remove a sitting Labour PM unless they choose to go. And Starmer is digging in. Tough times for Labour. Tough times for the country they purport to govern.
I have bought a ringside seat. What larks!
One of the many things that have held me back on PB is that I've never had a great liking for popcorn which is apparently mandatory on these occasions.
On Ange, of whom I'm a fan, her biggest minus is not the HRMC, but rather her 'colourful' private life, which would be seen as fair game to a hostile press if she were elected, and they would have a field day. For example, she spends a lot of time in Hove for someone representing Ashton-under-Lyne, she clearly likes to have a good time, and she tells it like it is.
While Boris could get away with all his shenanigans because he is 'one of the lads', I fear in our misogynistic media and social media culture the same forgiveness wouldn't be extended to Ange. I suspect many Labour MPs share my concerns, however unfair that may be.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
I didn't mean you. That was for people who *don't* want to reinforce dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
We would need to come up with some objective measures to judge his performance, which was kinda hard with Starmer because - besides the pledge to build 1.5 million houses - he was always very vague about what he was trying to do.
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Greatness? He's on the verge of becoming Leader of the Labour Party. It doesn't get much lower...
Thought you were 100% sure it was Andy?
I think they should go for Burnham. But this is going too fast.
Hey and just one thing. Whoever emerges and gets this - and esp if it's Wes - I want to see some positivity on here, or at least a fair minded assessment of how he's doing, rather than a load of herdlike 'what a wanker' stuff that just lowers the spirits and reinforces dumbed down division at the expense of solidarity and progress.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
With all due respect, fuck off
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
Perhaps he was joking. But if he's serious - give over
Imagine if I said, after a Reform win in the General Election,
"Right, everyone on PB has to give Farage a chance, I don't want to see any criticism for at least a year. We need positivity"
@kinabalu wold be the first to tell me to go jump down a tin mine, and he'd be justified
There's that speech that defeated party leaders used to give, that went something like:
"We wish the new government well, for it is in the nation's interests that we are ruled well. We will back them when they are right, and challenge them when they are wrong..."
Oily tosh, of course. But useful oil, for all that. Its loss is one of the reasons that the conversation is so scratchy these days.
And some of the allegations about Starmer on the spicier bits of social media are unhinged.
I would be fascinated to know if the cross party friendships that used to predominate are still common. Or if that has all broken down now.
Streeting is a creature of Mandelson isn’t he? Burnham isn’t in Parliament, twice rejected by the party. Rayner is a gob shite and has the tax stink still over her. And Miliband was already roundly rejected by voters.
What am I missing that the Deputy PM isn’t being spoken of for a potential promotion?
Imagine if Labour goes all through this agony, installs Wes or Ange or Whoever, and then the polls do not budge one iota. And the new PM is, within weeks, as unpopular as Skyr
I quite like Wes Streeting, he and I both have similar backgrounds.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
This is seeming just a little too coordinated and planned to me. Is Streeting behind it? Who knows but someone is.
Ben Riley-Smith @benrileysmith Wes Streeting's PPS and the Labour MP moderate in the next-door constituency to him have both publicly called for Starmer to go in the last hour.
Being seen by some of the Left that the Health Sec has given the signal for his backers to move on Starmer. Could Streeting say something in the next 24hrs?
Its Andy Burnham I feel sorry for. He can't get his PPS to quit. All he can do is get Sir Graham Stringer to retire and hope for a delay in the Starmer ousting.
Burnham's path isn't entirely closed. It's been plausibly reported that Miliband would prefer to be kingmaker with a reward as Chancellor of the Exchequer, but that he would stand if necessary to prevent Streeting from getting it. So on the assumption that, if the NEC doesn't block Burnham, Streeting will then trigger a contest before Burnham can get into parliament, Burnham might just be able to persuade Miliband to stand for leader on a platform that he would keep the seat warm for Burnham and stand down to trigger another contest as soon as Burnham were eligible. Miliband would walk the contest with Streeting on that basis.
So Burnham could still end up as PM by the end of 2026. But Miliband would have in the meantime have become the next PM as far as the betting markets are concerned.
PS. Labour List tally now up to 67 calling for Starmer to go now or in a planned departure, 77 backing Starmer to stay. Updated 7.25pm.
Comments
More fundamentally, let's imagine by some means Burnham was gifted the job on a plate tomorrow. What then?
The bond market will go nuts if he tries to increase borrowing. The back benches will go nuts if he tries to cut spending. The country has already gone nuts because they've increased taxes.
Wibbling on about a decade of national renewable, and some breakfast clubs, but in a Northern accent isn't going to cut if for very long.
IMHO, assuming Burnham doesn't spook the bond markets (in which case all bets are off) the most likely outcome is that he'll do the same stuff as Starmer, and in a years time he'll be about as popular.
Who does Farage fear most?
Probably Streeting. Maybe Burnham
He’d be happy with Miliband and delighted by Rayner
Tho, TBH, I doubt he’s scared of any of them
What he's messed up since is in his refusal to accept reality. I've been saying for some time that he should get behind Rayner or Miliband in the hope that some of his popularity rubs off on them. In return he could demand a promise of ennoblement and a very senior Cabinet post to allow him to role out "Manchesterism" across the country. Maybe he will now.
So I don't see how he is the best choice to improve fortunes.
Lammy's safe. He's almost cuddly.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/1693318/#Comment_1693318
@benrileysmith
Wes Streeting's PPS and the Labour MP moderate in the next-door constituency to him have both publicly called for Starmer to go in the last hour.
Being seen by some of the Left that the Health Sec has given the signal for his backers to move on Starmer. Could Streeting say something in the next 24hrs?
https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/2053885732280819786
Hmmm... what to do.
All they have is a series of least bad options. Of those, I reckon Wes gets it, but then he's on the right of the party, so he appeals to me more. That might rule him out for many
@Leon_VotedForStarmer wants Wes!
He is clearly on the right of the Labour party. He seems to have a much clearer idea of what he wants and what he intends to do than Starmer (very low bar alert). Not a great orator. Not sure he can hold the party together. Not sure he has enough allies. There is a danger of him being another Starmer with no real roots or natural supporters in the party.
2. Whose PPS has resigned?
3. Who has experience of the effective backstabbing to get office world of the NUS?
But ideas, does he have many?
I think him and Burnham could be a decent combination though.
Same message to the country if it's listening.
The big boulder has started rolling downhill and it is going to SQUISH Skyr Toolmakersson
Streeting is a good communicator, but has a tiny majority, another London leader, and no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room.
Burnham has blown his chance unless Labour MPs stop asking Starmer to go .
Rayner , gobby , very Marmite but great back story and it would be a real change to the type of PM we’re used to.
Miliband I agree would be a disaster .
So it could be we do get a surprise .
He’s also actually working class even if he’s from the south. But at least he sounds it.
OF COURSE we will immediately start humiliating Wes or Ange or The Manc Messiah or whoever gets it. It's what we DO. Plus, they will deserve it, and all of it. They are Labour
Minister texts: "It's terminal," they say, about Sir Keir Starmer's premiership
Rayner is the interesting wild card
Politics is 90% timing, and Andy "Nice Spectacles" Burnham has not got the timing right
Reminds me of Youtube a bit. Shitting on stuff is usually more popular content, but there's positive stuff out there.
https://x.com/bencsmoke/status/2053499919286125011
getting out ahead of this right now - we simply do not claim wes streeting as the first gay PM
a man who has thrown trans people under the bus, who backs govt attacks on lgbtq migrants, on poc, on working class etc is not emblematic of our movement+ is certainly no trailblazer
30% is very plausibly going to be enough for a majority at the next GE. Red Ed is a more likely route to that result than Starmer, Streeting or Burnham. I haven't made my mind up about Rayner.
Perhaps he was joking. But if he's serious - give over
Imagine if I said, after a Reform win in the General Election,
"Right, everyone on PB has to give Farage a chance, I don't want to see any criticism for at least a year. We need positivity"
@kinabalu wold be the first to tell me to go jump down a tin mine, and he'd be justified
I’m very flattered.
We both came from humble backgrounds (him working class and me the grandson of immigrants), we both attended the finest university they gave us the confidence to achieve greatness.
Are all gay men supposed to have the same political views? Famously the UK parliament has gay people of many political stripes, hence possibly being the gayest.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
They don't have much choice. They are hurtling into oblivion under Starmer. It's time to roll the dice, and after all this palaver, they need to get rolling soon - like, this week, or tonight - or the painful slowness will make everything worse. The voters quickly learned to despise the Tories for their endless navel gazing leader swaps
I'm trying to recall which Tory minister they tried to "out" - apart from the minor fact he was openly gay. The "outers" seemed even more upset by the fact that gay activists denouncing an openly gay man as gay caused barely a ripple.
- a north Londoner
But, he's unlikely to crash and burn by scaring off the bond market in the way that Burnham would.
The simple act of replacing Starmer - if they hurry the F up - should at least allow a decent bounce in the polls. New leader, fresh face, Starmer is loathed but he will, one hopes, take a lot of that loathing with him
Jessica Elgot
@jessicaelgot
There is - seemingly - no rearguard action from Number 10
https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/2053894479040356491
"We wish the new government well, for it is in the nation's interests that we are ruled well. We will back them when they are right, and challenge them when they are wrong..."
Oily tosh, of course. But useful oil, for all that. Its loss is one of the reasons that the conversation is so scratchy these days.
And some of the allegations about Starmer on the spicier bits of social media are unhinged.
While Boris could get away with all his shenanigans because he is 'one of the lads', I fear in our misogynistic media and social media culture the same forgiveness wouldn't be extended to Ange. I suspect many Labour MPs share my concerns, however unfair that may be.
And what if he loses any by-election ?
What am I missing that the Deputy PM isn’t being spoken of for a potential promotion?
So Burnham could still end up as PM by the end of 2026. But Miliband would have in the meantime have become the next PM as far as the betting markets are concerned.
PS. Labour List tally now up to 67 calling for Starmer to go now or in a planned departure, 77 backing Starmer to stay. Updated 7.25pm.