Given it is all the rage to bring back oldies from 20 years ago to dig yourself out the shit, maybe England could use him this summer.
Keir Starmer could do worse
What Gordon Brown and Harman, it’s hard to imagine who could be worse - albeit Blair has gone rather mad
I got really angry listening to Harman on the radio this morning, saying that it's no time to rock the boat etc etc.
I have had no regard for Harman's political judgement ever since she messed up the transition after Miliband resigned as LOTO in 2015. Instead of respecting her caretaker role as Deputy, she f**ked things up by letting power go to her head and put forward half baked proposals on welfare reform that the party was never going to buy, giving Burnham the choice of resigning in protest or staying in the Shadow Cabinet. All totally unnecessary.
Burnham's judgement also proved flawed, he made the wrong choice at a point when he was being lined up to run from the left in the pending leadership election. He didn't resign, lost the support of many on the left and opened the door to Corbyn to (just) get enough nominations to stand as leader.
PS. No problem with Brown, his reputation since leaving office has grown not diminished, although why he is minded to try and prop up Starmer prior to his inevitable departure beats me.
Has anyone done a simple correlation between reform % vote and educational attainment. Instead of folk looking in the mirror and reflecting on why their lifes are so shit, it’s the usual finger pointing. Same with Brexit, same with this election.
Ah, the "they're all thick and stupid brigade".
You are why people vote Reform.
I wonder what percentage of reform voters have a broken screen on their phones.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
In slightly different news, Oxfordshire County Council has slipped into NOC with 2 resignations from the Liberal Democrats.
Resignations not defections?
Both now sitting as independents
Arguments over who gets what role?
That's my suspicion...
The first one quit the Cabinet and the party. The second just quit the party
Are they related? A lot of husband, wife or siblings teams within parties, I can think of at least 3 sets that stood in Kirklees and LDs were well represented in that.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
Hell of a painful way to get there.
Yes. I plan to fully retire from the NHS before the GE. I don't want any part of the shitshow, and will watch from a safe distance.
Does Plaid doing well in Wales suggest there is a strong anti-Reform vote or not?
Possibly, and to an extent almost certainly.
However, caveats incoming vis a vis the Senedd.
1) The new electoral system makes it less of a thing to “vote negatively” to stop X winning. You voted once for a party list (the order decided by the party), so less real mechanism, or need, to vote for X if it’s a two way marginal between X and Y, and X is merely the lesser of two evils. We undoubtedly did see this in the recent Caerphilly by election where loads of Labour and others piled in behind Plaid to stop Reform.
2) Plaid mainly benefited on Thursday, from being a ready made left wing home for disaffected Labour voters. This has often been the case in the past, when Labour has had a bit of a downturn in Wales, but the tsunami was magnified by the general UK discontent with the first two years of a Labour Govt in London, a plausible, moderate sounding Plaid leader, who expressly took constitutional tinkering off the table, and the baggage of 27 (27!), years of continuous government. Eluned Morgan is a decent sort, who was left holding the parcel when the music stopped. Any Labour leader could’ve been Abraham Lincoln, crossed with Mother Teresa and still lost.
Has anyone done a simple correlation between reform % vote and educational attainment. Instead of folk looking in the mirror and reflecting on why their lifes are so shit, it’s the usual finger pointing. Same with Brexit, same with this election.
Ah, the "they're all thick and stupid brigade".
You are why people vote Reform.
I wonder what percentage of reform voters have a broken screen on their phones.
What I find remarkable is how "angry" they are, and the same with Greens.
Yes, yes, "you bet we're angry" etc but that's no way to live your life.
You can avoid it by avoiding trashy newspapers, getting out in the world and contributing to it.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
Hell of a painful way to get there.
Yes. I plan to fully retire from the NHS before the GE. I don't want any part of the shitshow, and will watch from a safe distance.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
Hell of a painful way to get there.
Yes. I plan to fully retire from the NHS before the GE. I don't want any part of the shitshow, and will watch from a safe distance.
What counts as a safe distance?
I'm reminded of what Douglas Adams wrote about the band Disaster Area.
I think the Harriet -Gordon Dream Team could work. They don't lack experience -150 years between them. Harriet could lead on all sex related matters and Gordon on the economy. Listening to Any Questions there seems to be some residual affection for Labour and Starmer and precious little for Reform and Farage.
I take this program seriously as a large focus group. I wouldn't take Farage's popularity for granted at all. He's possibly some peoples wild card but I can't detect any affection for him at all.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
As I think Lowe and Tommy Ten Names are beyond the pale, I'd actually think you'd see a return to the traditional duopoly. I think the populist right may well be totally discredited by the mid-2030s.
I think the Harriet -Gordon Dream Team could work. They don't lack experience -150 years between them. Harriet could lead on all sex related matters and Gordon on the economy. Listening to Any Questions there seems to be some residual affection for Labour and Starmer and precious little for Reform and Farage.
I take this program seriously as a large focus group. I wouldn't take Farage's popularity for granted at all. He's possibly some peoples wild card but I can't detect any affection for him at all.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
Hell of a painful way to get there.
Yes. I plan to fully retire from the NHS before the GE. I don't want any part of the shitshow, and will watch from a safe distance.
I think the Harriet -Gordon Dream Team could work. They don't lack experience -150 years between them. Harriet could lead on all sex related matters and Gordon on the economy. Listening to Any Questions there seems to be some residual affection for Labour and Starmer and precious little for Reform and Farage.
I take this program seriously as a large focus group. I wouldn't take Farage's popularity for granted at all. He's possibly some peoples wild card but I can't detect any affection for him at all.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
Has anyone done a simple correlation between reform % vote and educational attainment. Instead of folk looking in the mirror and reflecting on why their lifes are so shit, it’s the usual finger pointing. Same with Brexit, same with this election.
Ah, the "they're all thick and stupid brigade".
You are why people vote Reform.
I wonder what percentage of reform voters have a broken screen on their phones.
What I find remarkable is how "angry" they are, and the same with Greens.
Yes, yes, "you bet we're angry" etc but that's no way to live your life.
You can avoid it by avoiding trashy newspapers, getting out in the world and contributing to it.
If there's hope for us all, it's in small scale communities that force us to get along with people unlike us. That simple, that impossible.
Any smoke signals from Hampshire? (well done for the relative success in holding back the Turquoise Terror, by the way.)
It is @OnlyLivingBoy who is showing his age and out-of-touchness. @MaxPB is too young, anyway, to remember the 80s incarnation of "the wine bar"
One of my most disturbing memories is going into a wine bar in Oxford in my teens and a local woman (probably in her 50s) looking at me and literally licking her lips
I think the Harriet -Gordon Dream Team could work. They don't lack experience -150 years between them. Harriet could lead on all sex related matters and Gordon on the economy. Listening to Any Questions there seems to be some residual affection for Labour and Starmer and precious little for Reform and Farage.
I take this program seriously as a large focus group. I wouldn't take Farage's popularity for granted at all. He's possibly some peoples wild card but I can't detect any affection for him at all.
I have been in an Any Questions audience. It is very R4 and very representative of a small slice of Britain.
All parts of Britain deserve to be represented, and the Any Questions audience is no different, but I wouldn't mistake it for representing the whole country.
It is @OnlyLivingBoy who is showing his age and out-of-touchness. @MaxPB is too young, anyway, to remember the 80s incarnation of "the wine bar"
One of my most disturbing memories is going into a wine bar in Oxford in my teens and a local woman (probably in her 50s) looking at me and literally licking her lips
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
If I were a betting man I would back Farage at short odds to have the best general election campaign of the five party leaders.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
It seems from Leon’s internet research that some of them now do indeed call themselves wine bars again, perhaps from some sort of retro reference.
I’m sure OLB goes to plenty such places, after all inner London is awash with them, but considers them simply to be bars.
So you’re welcome to have your reference returned intact. Whether politicos are indeed cooking up policy in places like this is another question.
It was Vagabond that brought the term to London when it opened its first bar in 2010. No one in my generation or Gen Z even knows whatever the 80s image of a wine bar was and I generally don't see many people over 40 in them so maybe that's why? Stuffy older people can't let go of that meme and people who never saw it don't care about it.
I am potentially going to be stocking my wines in Vagabond when they’re released. Had a chat with them a few weeks ago.
That's great, let us know and we can give them a try when they become available. Majestic really got themselves a winning formula with Vagabond. I honestly think the big uptick in wine drinking among young people is partly down to them making it much more approachable and not needing to buy a whole glass just to try. So many places have followed that formula since they started it and wine bars have exploded across all of London.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
I wonder if in the case of Scotland, Labour has a real chance of being an opposition when Starmer goes. This looked conceivable after GE2024 for a little while.
Has anyone done a simple correlation between reform % vote and educational attainment. Instead of folk looking in the mirror and reflecting on why their lifes are so shit, it’s the usual finger pointing. Same with Brexit, same with this election.
Ah, the "they're all thick and stupid brigade".
You are why people vote Reform.
I wonder what percentage of reform voters have a broken screen on their phones.
What I find remarkable is how "angry" they are, and the same with Greens.
Yes, yes, "you bet we're angry" etc but that's no way to live your life.
Maybe I'm just too comfortable, but it seems exhausting.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
I’d hope they won’t be in government and become exposed by questioning, but I’d say the exact same thing about the Greens who, in my view, are epically clueless in much the opposite direction.
It is however three years out, in all likelihood, to the next GE and we live in a world where next week might seem a long way off by the time we get there.
Trump/Iran/Ukraine ( Taiwan?). Does AI crash the markets and lead to a big recession?. Does Reform implode because Nigel can’t get on with his underlings? Do inherent tensions within the Green Party and its voters render it asunder? Will electoral pacts between parties come to the fore as an FPTP GE approaches and five parties ( six in Scotland and Wales) are all 20% +/-? What if there’s incumbent voter remorse but now against Plaid and the SNP?
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
I wonder if in the case of Scotland, Labour has a real chance of being an opposition when Starmer goes. This looked conceivable after GE2024 for a little while.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
If not Big Nige as next PM after the GE, then who? It's certainly not going to be Olukemi or whichever luckless Labour Party politruk inherents the gilded legacy of SKS.
The Fukker regime will be immensely entertaining, lurching from one scandal to the next while we excavate nuggets of pure shit from the social media history of their new MPs.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
I wonder if in the case of Scotland, Labour has a real chance of being an opposition when Starmer goes. This looked conceivable after GE2024 for a little while.
Sarwar is an empty suit and the party is almost entirely devoid of talent. There is no effort made to try to develop any meaningful policies or to highlight the catastrophes of the SNP except in the most superficial way. They are not alone. Ruth Davidson was very successful with the vote Tory to stop Independence more than 10 years ago. I am really not aware of any new thinking since. It is the beginning and the end of Tory policy north of the Border. I can't really see Reform improving this sad state of affairs and the Greens will, if anything, make things worse. There's a party called the Lib Dems, allegedly but no one seems to know what they think about anything.
We live in a one party state which spends billions on "charities" who are required to toe the line and promote SNP talking points. And there is no relief in sight.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
I wonder if in the case of Scotland, Labour has a real chance of being an opposition when Starmer goes. This looked conceivable after GE2024 for a little while.
Sarwar is an empty suit and the party is almost entirely devoid of talent. There is no effort made to try to develop any meaningful policies or to highlight the catastrophes of the SNP except in the most superficial way. They are not alone. Ruth Davidson was very successful with the vote Tory to stop Independence more than 10 years ago. I am really not aware of any new thinking since. It is the beginning and the end of Tory policy north of the Border. I can't really see Reform improving this sad state of affairs and the Greens will, if anything, make things worse. There's a party called the Lib Dems, allegedly but no one seems to know what they think about anything.
We live in a one party state which spends billions on "charities" who are required to toe the line and promote SNP talking points. And there is no relief in sight.
So, I hadn't heard of this but a quick Google does turf up a couple of these modern, newish wine bars nibbles type joints out in the Huddersfield valleys, so I may give one a try at some point.
But I do feel suitably forewarned from the search that it may not be all it's cracked up to be:
I do love an X Tory. "Gordon Brown gave away the gold" is almost a thirty years ago event, yet austerity, Brexit and Covid criminality are far more recent events yet they never get a mention from the same crowd.
Andrew Marr says Farage will be the PM after the next election. I disagree. May I suggest a little calm amidst the hype, based on these boring thoughts
1) On Thursday about 73% of those who voted didn't vote for Reform. Almost all hyped up comment has ignored their existence. 2) Projections of NEV from Thursday's elections gave Reform about a 7 point lead over the next place (Sky, Rallings and Thrasher 3) Reform got 27% of the vote (NEV) and a 4 point swap between them and the Tories would put (astonishingly) Tories in the lead 4) Starmer won't be PM at the next election 5) Reform have peaked from their 35% polling 6) Farage is widely hated 6) The Green vote has a strong 'O Jeremy Corbyn' feel about it and is flaky, split between young impressionable and older enthusiastic recyclers 7) At the next GE the 70%+ non Reform vote will operate tactically 8) Reform are about 11/4 to get a majority in the next GE.
You keep on posting something like this, but you don't present much evidence for it.
Most Tory voters will tactically vote for Reform to stop a Labour or Green victory. Very few Labour or Green voters will vote tactically for a Tory to stop a Reform victory. Your anti-Reform 70+% doesn't exist.
We know this from the opinion polling and the evidence of by-elections.
If Reform maintain a lead then FPTP will deliver them a winner's bonus, and it's possible they win a majority on a very low national share of the vote.
Thanks. All fair points.
It seems to me that my points 1,2,3,5,6,8 are more or less factual. 4 is massively probable. 7 is a guess or intuition. I never claim that 70%+ is the anti-Reform vote, but that it is the non-Reform vote. My guess is that a substantial number of the 70+% non Reform voters will vote to keep Reform out and that 'who to vote for to keep Reform out in your seat' will be a major industry from 2028 onwards, and will have an effect.
The reason for making my general point, whether right or wrong, is that extensive coverage of Thursday's elections have almost (except for Wales and Scotland) erased the realities of the 70% voting for Lab, Con, LD, Green and so on. This leads to a mistaken understanding what is going on. Which is 'fragmentation and disillusion - Yes'; 'Reform electorally unsurpassable - No.'
Guesses about the future (betting relies on these to exist) involves imagining ahead. I imagine that the near prospect of a Reform government will, like being hanged in a fortnight, concentrate minds in quite a different way from this moment.
I agree with your points except for the 70% anti-Reform bit. It's clear that the majority of (ex?) Tories are right wing enough to prefer Reform to Labour. But there is a large minority like yourself who don't. Secondly there are also a number like me who are prepared if necessary to vote Tory to keep Reform out, but think then Greens under current management are just as bad and I won't vote for them either. There must also be a large chunk of people on the left who won't vote Tory under any circumstances.
That feels more like a voter coalition of 50% not 70%, at best. Might it be not quite enough?
Thanks. All good points to my mind. A significant issue with tactical voting is of course who is the anointed candidate when politics is fragmented and the parties will presumably evade any honest and open talk of the matter. One interesting starting point is that in 411 seats the winner was Labour, so the tactical discussion has an odd starting point - very few seats where the contender is obviously the Tory. This may justify the view that Labour are almost bound to overperform in 2029 despite their entirely justified unpopularity. They may get votes fro (a) that small rump whom still think they are wonderful (b) those like me who have almost no support for Labour but think all the others are worse and (c) those for whom Labour is the obvious vote as the incumbent MP is Labour, to beat Reform.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
I wonder if in the case of Scotland, Labour has a real chance of being an opposition when Starmer goes. This looked conceivable after GE2024 for a little while.
Sarwar is an empty suit and the party is almost entirely devoid of talent. There is no effort made to try to develop any meaningful policies or to highlight the catastrophes of the SNP except in the most superficial way. They are not alone. Ruth Davidson was very successful with the vote Tory to stop Independence more than 10 years ago. I am really not aware of any new thinking since. It is the beginning and the end of Tory policy north of the Border. I can't really see Reform improving this sad state of affairs and the Greens will, if anything, make things worse. There's a party called the Lib Dems, allegedly but no one seems to know what they think about anything.
We live in a one party state which spends billions on "charities" who are required to toe the line and promote SNP talking points. And there is no relief in sight.
I alarmed myself when I found I was nodding along to the economic policies of Reform UK Scotland, or whatever they call themselves. ie they have economic policies.
No way I will vote for that collection of antisemites, Islamophobes, all-sorts-of-other-phobes. Worrying nevertheless.
Scottish Labour's line is 'time for change". A message I am very receptive to. They didn't think it necessary to explain even in the broadest terms what they would change, why and how.
God, I hate the trend for 10 litre wine glasses. We wanted to replace some nice sized old ones, and we went through ordering the smallest capacity possible from John Lewis, weighing our current ones full of water, and still ended up with one size up, that are just about tolerable.
We are still at the work and kids stage where by the time we sit down with the TV, we still often seek out the "half hour programme" and a bottle of wine can do two of us for two nights in the circumstances. I don't want to drink wine from one of the bloody industrial reaction vessels from Mrs Rata's chemical plant.
For a moment I got excited and thought reading your post that a stalking horse no hoper had announced he was standing against Starmer, after which the dam would fall.
Instead he's just decided to taste Starmer's behind.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
@OnlyLivingBoy is a centrist Dad of a certain age, who hasn't quite realised he's now a bit out of touch. I do not condemn him for this: it happens to us all, me included
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
As a Londoner who is still just about thirty something (38) married to another one who is also thirty something (33) I think I've probably got more insight on what younger generations do in the evenings. It also helps that I've got a team of junior analysts who work for me and they're generally under 30. What surprises me is how much more socialised the women are vs the men in my team. The dudes will come alive when talking about work or football but generally uninterested in post work drinks, even for free, while the women are happy talking about anything and will always come out for post work drinks on Thursday. Yet on the flip side when we did an organised social where we went bowling it was the guys who were the life of the party both during the bowling and then drinks afterwards. It's genuinely a struggle to get them to work together as a team right now.
or they are just uninterested with post work drinks with their boss
I do love an X Tory. "Gordon Brown gave away the gold" is almost a thirty years ago event, yet austerity, Brexit and Covid criminality are far more recent events yet they never get a mention from the same crowd.
In fairness, with the gold price reaching new records this year, the decision to sell gold becomes a more expensive mistake.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
In Scotland we have a government that has concentrated hard on not doing anything at all since they got rid of Yousless, just in case anyone was upset about anything. In the meantime our education system continues to deteriorate, our healthy life expectancy is actually falling, partly because we still have the worst record on drug deaths in Europe and Universities are on the point of financial collapse.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
I wonder if in the case of Scotland, Labour has a real chance of being an opposition when Starmer goes. This looked conceivable after GE2024 for a little while.
Sarwar is an empty suit and the party is almost entirely devoid of talent. There is no effort made to try to develop any meaningful policies or to highlight the catastrophes of the SNP except in the most superficial way. They are not alone. Ruth Davidson was very successful with the vote Tory to stop Independence more than 10 years ago. I am really not aware of any new thinking since. It is the beginning and the end of Tory policy north of the Border. I can't really see Reform improving this sad state of affairs and the Greens will, if anything, make things worse. There's a party called the Lib Dems, allegedly but no one seems to know what they think about anything.
We live in a one party state which spends billions on "charities" who are required to toe the line and promote SNP talking points. And there is no relief in sight.
Seconded DavidL, and I would also add that we not only live in a one party State, but one where there are simple no proper checks and balances to hold them to account like there are at Westminster. I am gutted that we did not see a result that would have given more not even less power to the Opposition to finally hold this incompetent and secretive SNP Government to account and forcing them into having to become more accountable and transparent. And after what happened in the last Parliament, we might as well tear up the Ministerial code for all the notice the SNP take of it.
Its an utterly depressing to think we are going to have suffer another five years of this costly SNP Government and the further damage its going to inflict on everything it touches in Scotland.
Does Plaid doing well in Wales suggest there is a strong anti-Reform vote or not?
It shows the utter idiocy of Blue Labour and that you don't need to say "Farage is right, but..." to win WWC voters.
A decision wholly crafted by Starmer. Get rid of Starmer and the pretendy performative cruelty can stop. Labour pretending to hate foreigners didn't work so well on Thursday.
Has anyone done a simple correlation between reform % vote and educational attainment. Instead of folk looking in the mirror and reflecting on why their lifes are so shit, it’s the usual finger pointing. Same with Brexit, same with this election.
Ah, the "they're all thick and stupid brigade".
You are why people vote Reform.
I wonder what percentage of reform voters have a broken screen on their phones.
What I find remarkable is how "angry" they are, and the same with Greens.
Yes, yes, "you bet we're angry" etc but that's no way to live your life.
You can avoid it by avoiding trashy newspapers, getting out in the world and contributing to it.
also need to be careful to avoid looking at the adverts at train stations
God, I hate the trend for 10 litre wine glasses. We wanted to replace some nice sized old ones, and we went through ordering the smallest capacity possible from John Lewis, weighing our current ones full of water, and still ended up with one size up, that are just about tolerable.
We are still at the work and kids stage where by the time we sit down with the TV, we still often seek out the "half hour programme" and a bottle of wine can do two of us for two nights in the circumstances. I don't want to drink wine from one of the bloody industrial reaction vessels from Mrs Rata's chemical plant.
A little known trick is to put less in the glass. It's quite hard to learn; none of my family have got the hang of it over several decades.
- bringing back Mandelson despite his close links with Epstein; - appointing Matthew Doyle to the Lords despite his close links with a paedophile; - despite - however unfair this might be - some Labour MPs complaining that they are being accused of being a "paedo party"; - despite the concerns over Labour's attitude to the topic we can't discuss (a topic which does not show Labour's supposed saviour, Andy Burnham in a good light - Google "Operation Augusta, the GMP and Burnham's response); - after criticisms that Starmer's Minister for Women & Equalities has yet to enforce a Supreme Court judgment from April 2025;
Starmer's brilliant response to reset his government is to -
- appoint Harriet Harman despite her openly talking rubbish about what the Equality Act and the judgment said last year and despite past iffy links with PIE, presumably on the basis that if Blair could appoint Margaret Hodge as Minister for Children after and despite the mess in Islington Children's Homes in Islington while she was in charge, why shouldn't he do something similar; and - appoint the very man - Gordon Brown - who brought Mandelson back into government allowing him to use a personal email for government business thus facilitating his leaking of confidential information, a matter currently under criminal investigation by the police.
God, I hate the trend for 10 litre wine glasses. We wanted to replace some nice sized old ones, and we went through ordering the smallest capacity possible from John Lewis, weighing our current ones full of water, and still ended up with one size up, that are just about tolerable.
We are still at the work and kids stage where by the time we sit down with the TV, we still often seek out the "half hour programme" and a bottle of wine can do two of us for two nights in the circumstances. I don't want to drink wine from one of the bloody industrial reaction vessels from Mrs Rata's chemical plant.
A little known trick is to put less in the glass. It's quite hard to learn; none of my family have got the hang of it over several decades.
I with you there too. Right sized glass, correct fill level.
I do love an X Tory. "Gordon Brown gave away the gold" is almost a thirty years ago event, yet austerity, Brexit and Covid criminality are far more recent events yet they never get a mention from the same crowd.
In fairness, with the gold price reaching new records this year, the decision to sell gold becomes a more expensive mistake.
It may or may not have been wise. Probably not, certainly with the benefit of hindsight, but the same people saying gold is worth a million times what it was in the first term of the Blair Government still ignore the utter fiasco that was Brexit. In fact we have well written thread headers on here explaining how fantastic Brexit turned out to be.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
There are so many contradictions with Reform, but right at the top are two:
The voter base are fed up social democrats who believe in a massively large and ever growing state, and therefore in high tax, some without even realising it. This is not where the hearts of Reform movers and shakers are.
The voter base genuinely believes there are simple and quick answers to complex problems and that running a state of 70,000,000, a few million of whom are quite difficult to handle, is straightforward. It is a reasonable assumption that Reform's movers and shakers know this is not the case.
(I suspect some Reform power brokers know all this so intimately that they will find ways of not being around to help if, by some ghastly accident, Reform have to govern from July 2029. Is Farage among that number? We may never know)
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
When you all were going on about anti semitism, I gently pointed out it was a fetish and that more should be done about violence and abuse of women. But anti semitism and misogyny won't disappear without funding the courts. Otherwise it will only be lipservice to both.
Whatever we think about SKS and the current woes of the Labour Party, does anyone really think Farage will be the PM after the next GE? Surely the heat of a GE campaign will expose Farage and his blackshirts as brainless populists who have no idea on how to solve the country’s problems. The UK under Farage will be a shit show to beat any shit show this country has seen. Fortunately, a Reform government is unlikely to happen.
I’d hope they won’t be in government and become exposed by questioning, but I’d say the exact same thing about the Greens who, in my view, are epically clueless in much the opposite direction.
It is however three years out, in all likelihood, to the next GE and we live in a world where next week might seem a long way off by the time we get there.
Trump/Iran/Ukraine ( Taiwan?). Does AI crash the markets and lead to a big recession?. Does Reform implode because Nigel can’t get on with his underlings? Do inherent tensions within the Green Party and its voters render it asunder? Will electoral pacts between parties come to the fore as an FPTP GE approaches and five parties ( six in Scotland and Wales) are all 20% +/-? What if there’s incumbent voter remorse but now against Plaid and the SNP?
There’s a lot to happen yet.
Northern Ireland has a 5-party system (plus two smaller ones with the TUV and PBP). They have STV for most elections, so no pacts needed, but they’ve been around long enough that they often organise pacts on a constituency basis. I’m not certain GB politics has reached that level of maturity, but maybe it can work. PC, the LibDems and Greens have done small scale pacts before. Reform chose to step down in a bunch of seats to help the Tories, but their ambitions and egos are bigger now, so I doubt they’ll be up for any similar arrangement. Labour and the Tories have always considered themselves above the machinations of the smaller parties; I doubt they’re willing yet to admit that they’re the same size as those other parties now!
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
Yes, and that will be one of the many stresses in a Reform Parliamentary party elected in Stoke Wigan and Sunderland.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
Comments
I have had no regard for Harman's political judgement ever since she messed up the transition after Miliband resigned as LOTO in 2015. Instead of respecting her caretaker role as Deputy, she f**ked things up by letting power go to her head and put forward half baked proposals on welfare reform that the party was never going to buy, giving Burnham the choice of resigning in protest or staying in the Shadow Cabinet. All totally unnecessary.
Burnham's judgement also proved flawed, he made the wrong choice at a point when he was being lined up to run from the left in the pending leadership election. He didn't resign, lost the support of many on the left and opened the door to Corbyn to (just) get enough nominations to stand as leader.
PS. No problem with Brown, his reputation since leaving office has grown not diminished, although why he is minded to try and prop up Starmer prior to his inevitable departure beats me.
I expect even a Reform majority government will be highly prone to schism and collapse. PM Farage will make Starmer look consistent and popular within months, then the government collapse in ignominy. What follows after, who knows? but likely a strong opportunity for Rejoin.
However, caveats incoming vis a vis the Senedd.
1) The new electoral system makes it less of a thing to “vote negatively” to stop X winning. You voted once for a party list (the order decided by the party), so less real mechanism, or need, to vote for X if it’s a two way marginal between X and Y, and X is merely the lesser of two evils. We undoubtedly did see this in the recent Caerphilly by election where loads of Labour and others piled in behind Plaid to stop Reform.
2) Plaid mainly benefited on Thursday, from being a ready made left wing home for disaffected Labour voters. This has often been the case in the past, when Labour has had a bit of a downturn in Wales, but the tsunami was magnified by the general UK discontent with the first two years of a Labour Govt in London, a plausible, moderate sounding Plaid leader, who expressly took constitutional tinkering off the table, and the baggage of 27 (27!), years of continuous government. Eluned Morgan is a decent sort,
who was left holding the parcel when the music stopped. Any Labour leader could’ve been Abraham Lincoln, crossed with Mother Teresa and still lost.
Yes, yes, "you bet we're angry" etc but that's no way to live your life.
You can avoid it by avoiding trashy newspapers, getting out in the world and contributing to it.
I'm reminded of what Douglas Adams wrote about the band Disaster Area.
I take this program seriously as a large focus group. I wouldn't take Farage's popularity for granted at all. He's possibly some peoples wild card but I can't detect any affection for him at all.
1) It has won over a thousand seats (1006)
2) It has lost over 1,400 seats (-1416)
Greens have just passed one milestone
1) It has won over 500 seats (525)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QPhMVbleU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoDKh1EAZjI
Any smoke signals from Hampshire? (well done for the relative success in holding back the Turquoise Terror, by the way.)
.............Until infact he got screwed by the Americans. History repeating itseld and with similar consequences
All parts of Britain deserve to be represented, and the Any Questions audience is no different, but I wouldn't mistake it for representing the whole country.
You are in denial.
And the SNP have been re-elected with no real opposition in sight, let alone close. To assume that there is some correlation between rank incompetence and electoral success or lack of it flies in the face of experience. Clearly anyone who has taken the time to even briefly consider the issues would not be voting Reform or Green. Equally clearly, the majority will not.
Will they do mail orders?
Carole Caplin as his personal wellness adviser
Sharon Shoesmith as adviser on social services
Margaret Moran as adviser on standards in public life
It is however three years out, in all likelihood, to the next GE and we live in a world where next week might seem a long way off by the time we get there.
Trump/Iran/Ukraine ( Taiwan?). Does AI crash the markets and lead to a big recession?. Does Reform implode because Nigel can’t get on with his underlings? Do inherent tensions within the Green Party and its voters render it asunder? Will electoral pacts between parties come to the fore as an FPTP GE approaches and five parties ( six in Scotland and Wales) are all 20% +/-? What if there’s incumbent voter remorse but now against Plaid and the SNP?
There’s a lot to happen yet.
Seats won are only 41% of the seats held and up for election.
Add to that the total meltdown in Wales.
Starmer has to go now.
The Fukker regime will be immensely entertaining, lurching from one scandal to the next while we excavate nuggets of pure shit from the social media history of their new MPs.
We live in a one party state which spends billions on "charities" who are required to toe the line and promote SNP talking points. And there is no relief in sight.
But I do feel suitably forewarned from the search that it may not be all it's cracked up to be:
https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/why-is-every-restaurant-in-london-a-wine-bar-now
No way I will vote for that collection of antisemites, Islamophobes, all-sorts-of-other-phobes. Worrying nevertheless.
Scottish Labour's line is 'time for change". A message I am very receptive to. They didn't think it necessary to explain even in the broadest terms what they would change, why and how.
We are still at the work and kids stage where by the time we sit down with the TV, we still often seek out the "half hour programme" and a bottle of wine can do two of us for two nights in the circumstances. I don't want to drink wine from one of the bloody industrial reaction vessels from Mrs Rata's chemical plant.
Starmer must go.
https://election.news.sky.com/elections/england-councils-2026/bradford-4734
Instead he's just decided to taste Starmer's behind.
Its an utterly depressing to think we are going to have suffer another five years of this costly SNP Government and the further damage its going to inflict on everything it touches in Scotland.
Currently 1,427 losses v 1,446 gains. Too close to call.
https://election.news.sky.com/elections/england-councils-2026
NEW THREAD
After his judgment has become an issue -
- bringing back Mandelson despite his close links with Epstein;
- appointing Matthew Doyle to the Lords despite his close links with a paedophile;
- despite - however unfair this might be - some Labour MPs complaining that they are being accused of being a "paedo party";
- despite the concerns over Labour's attitude to the topic we can't discuss (a topic which does not show Labour's supposed saviour, Andy Burnham in a good light - Google "Operation Augusta, the GMP and Burnham's response);
- after criticisms that Starmer's Minister for Women & Equalities has yet to enforce a Supreme Court judgment from April 2025;
Starmer's brilliant response to reset his government is to -
- appoint Harriet Harman despite her openly talking rubbish about what the Equality Act and the judgment said last year and despite past iffy links with PIE, presumably on the basis that if Blair could appoint Margaret Hodge as Minister for Children after and despite the mess in Islington Children's Homes in Islington while she was in charge, why shouldn't he do something similar; and
- appoint the very man - Gordon Brown - who brought Mandelson back into government allowing him to use a personal email for government business thus facilitating his leaking of confidential information, a matter currently under criminal investigation by the police.
Seriously?
The voter base are fed up social democrats who believe in a massively large and ever growing state, and therefore in high tax, some without even realising it. This is not where the hearts of Reform movers and shakers are.
The voter base genuinely believes there are simple and quick answers to complex problems and that running a state of 70,000,000, a few million of whom are quite difficult to handle, is straightforward. It is a reasonable assumption that Reform's movers and shakers know this is not the case.
(I suspect some Reform power brokers know all this so intimately that they will find ways of not being around to help if, by some ghastly accident, Reform have to govern from July 2029. Is Farage among that number? We may never know)