BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
I’m strongly of the view that if Sunak had taken over after Johnson he’d have done a lot better.
Maybe. I think the rapid turnover was more destructive to the party's prospects as a gesture of competence than simply changing leader once would have been. But he still wasn't good and the party was completely exhausted and out of ideas.
Can someone please explain why SKS thinks bringing in a man best known for being PM in a disastrous economic crash as an economic advisor and a woman who spent her early career carrying water for the pedophile lobby in as a women & girls' rights advisor is going to be just the thing to turn Labour around?
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
If Labour back it, the Tories, on around 20% of the vote, are the only party which doesn't. You don't need another bloody referendum.
If I were Starmer's replacement I would challenge Farage to back a Commons bill introducing it for the next General Election.
According to local Reform activists, Reform have gone off PR. "Not in our interest"
Are they renaming themselves from Reform to Same Old ?
There's always a Yes, (Prime) Minister gag.
Bach and leather books on mahogany shelves = radical change, Stravinsky and abstract art = nothing new.
A party called Reform will try and keep things as they used to be, which (paradoxically, I know) will mean they make things worse.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Agreed. Joining the EU now is a sure winner. Yes we have the Reform and Brexit types but they are now in the minority (by quite a distance). SKS should just go for it! It’s the only hope for him..
He probably should have gone for it last year as a hail mary (I assumed it was in the long term plans for term 2 etc), but the problem is surely that the EU won't accept the UK as a member right now.
Not because they wouldn't want us back in, that's just dumb as getting a nation of 70m back in would come with all sorts of benefits. But because the issue is still too raw, and whilst EU sentiment is higher than when the referendum occurred, Brexit support is still too high for the EU to want to risk rerunning the whole argument in another 10-15 years.
Support for rejoining drops as you ask people about losing the pound, freedom of movement and membership fees. Having a prime minister less popular than Nixon after Watergate make the argument to rejoin is perhaps not the best idea. If you want to do this, get Starmer out first.
Support for rejoin grows, I presume, if you ask people about passport queues, abolishing roaming charges, boosting Britain’s exporters, lower prices, etc. Of course support goes up and down if you present different arguments.
I still can't see why EFTA/EEA can't be entertained, and done this Parliament (assuming EFTA wants us). Stays true to the 2016 vote, option to join either EEA/EU later (depending on where we end up) and sets our colour to the mast that we see closeness to Europe as more important than the lunatics across the pond.
I think you'd want a referendum, but I suspect the four EFTA members would be quite happy to have the UK in.............
Farage would campaign against it, but just get the many clips of him talking about a 'free trade deal with the EU' and state that EFTA's clue is in the name.
Good Morning everyone, (although I realise it's almost noon).
I really don't see the sense of bringing back Brown and Harman; yesterday's people. Although I've generally a lot of time for them both both but not in 'active' roles. That particularly applies to Brown, who seems much more suited to a 'reflective' role. From all I read, reacting well to pressure wasn't, and probably still isn't, one of his skills.
I'll be interested to see hove Reform manage in this patch, Essex; I strongly suspect that we won't have another Epping hotel fiasco, but the old airbase at Wethersfield is still being used to house asylum seekers whose cases are under consideration. What the new County Councillors can or will do about that I don't know. Nor, I suspect, do they.
In the wider world, one of Reform's 'policies' here was to 'Get Starmer out'; if he does go that will of course be described as a Reform victory. I suspect he should go, because clearly he's lost the confidence of the electorate, and I've searched my memory to think which of the PM's during my life has caused so many people to 'hate' him. And I can't find one. Several were considered incompetent and or dishonest by significant parts of the electorate, but hatred... no.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Agreed. Joining the EU now is a sure winner. Yes we have the Reform and Brexit types but they are now in the minority (by quite a distance). SKS should just go for it! It’s the only hope for him..
He probably should have gone for it last year as a hail mary (I assumed it was in the long term plans for term 2 etc), but the problem is surely that the EU won't accept the UK as a member right now.
Not because they wouldn't want us back in, that's just dumb as getting a nation of 70m back in would come with all sorts of benefits. But because the issue is still too raw, and whilst EU sentiment is higher than when the referendum occurred, Brexit support is still too high for the EU to want to risk rerunning the whole argument in another 10-15 years.
Support for rejoining drops as you ask people about losing the pound, freedom of movement and membership fees. Having a prime minister less popular than Nixon after Watergate make the argument to rejoin is perhaps not the best idea. If you want to do this, get Starmer out first.
Support for rejoin grows, I presume, if you ask people about passport queues, abolishing roaming charges, boosting Britain’s exporters, lower prices, etc. Of course support goes up and down if you present different arguments.
True, but that means it is fair to point out that any current polling on rejoin cannot be taken as definitive, and the EU likely feels the same way.
And if I were them I'd definitely say if you're coming back in you are coming in all the way.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
If Labour back it, the Tories, on around 20% of the vote, are the only party which doesn't. You don't need another bloody referendum.
If I were Starmer's replacement I would challenge Farage to back a Commons bill introducing it for the next General Election.
According to local Reform activists, Reform have gone off PR. "Not in our interest"
At least they are dropping their principles on it before they get into power, rather than afterwards like Trudeau did - and then had the gall to claim after leaving office that not doing it was one of his regrets. What a snake.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Arguably, Labour have been doing that. NHS waiting lists are coming down. Immigration is down. Deportations are up. Inflation was down (before the Trumpflation of the Iran War hit). But they’re not getting much credit for any of it.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Arguably, Labour have been doing that. NHS waiting lists are coming down. Immigration is down. Deportations are up. Inflation was down (before the Trumpflation of the Iran War hit). But they’re not getting much credit for any of it.
The public didn't even have the courtesy of giving them a honeymoon period!
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Agreed. Joining the EU now is a sure winner. Yes we have the Reform and Brexit types but they are now in the minority (by quite a distance). SKS should just go for it! It’s the only hope for him..
He probably should have gone for it last year as a hail mary (I assumed it was in the long term plans for term 2 etc), but the problem is surely that the EU won't accept the UK as a member right now.
Not because they wouldn't want us back in, that's just dumb as getting a nation of 70m back in would come with all sorts of benefits. But because the issue is still too raw, and whilst EU sentiment is higher than when the referendum occurred, Brexit support is still too high for the EU to want to risk rerunning the whole argument in another 10-15 years.
Support for rejoining drops as you ask people about losing the pound, freedom of movement and membership fees. Having a prime minister less popular than Nixon after Watergate make the argument to rejoin is perhaps not the best idea. If you want to do this, get Starmer out first.
Support for rejoin grows, I presume, if you ask people about passport queues, abolishing roaming charges, boosting Britain’s exporters, lower prices, etc. Of course support goes up and down if you present different arguments.
True, but that means it is fair to point out that any current polling on rejoin cannot be taken as definitive, and the EU likely feels the same way.
And if I were them I'd definitely say if you're coming back in you are coming in all the way.
Yes, which means the euro. And this time no "maybe in a few years". As soon as we join: euro membership
Once you're in the euro it is basically impossible to leave the euro, or leave the EU, as Greece and others have discovered. This is how the EU would make sure we are joining for good (and who can blame them, they don't want another Brexit in eight years). The euro would be a very difficult sell in a referendum. Britain giving up a huge chunk of economic sovereignty, forever?
Not impossible, but certainly difficult
And now, to work, to earn some soveriegn pounds. Later
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
There is a wine bar in Sale. Cork of the North. It's quite nice - but it is definitely more likely to be patronised by people using words like 'structural misogyny' than the Wetherspoons over the Road.
Though in reality the number of real people even in wine bars using terms like 'structural misogyny' is so vanishingly small as to alienate almost everyone.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Agreed. Joining the EU now is a sure winner. Yes we have the Reform and Brexit types but they are now in the minority (by quite a distance). SKS should just go for it! It’s the only hope for him..
He probably should have gone for it last year as a hail mary (I assumed it was in the long term plans for term 2 etc), but the problem is surely that the EU won't accept the UK as a member right now.
Not because they wouldn't want us back in, that's just dumb as getting a nation of 70m back in would come with all sorts of benefits. But because the issue is still too raw, and whilst EU sentiment is higher than when the referendum occurred, Brexit support is still too high for the EU to want to risk rerunning the whole argument in another 10-15 years.
Plus they'd expect us to swiftly join the euro - to lock us in. That is a very very hard sell in the UK. Plus Schenghen and most of our fishing. Also, any one of the 27 EU nations can veto, unless they get what they want. Gibraltar? The Cyprus bases? United Ireland? Negotiation would be hellish and take ten years and might not even result in a Yes, OK
That's why IIRC the Spectator article on this theme said Starmer should call the referendum, then win it, then QUIT very quickly, leaving the mess to others, while enjoying the glory, and the praise of idiot Remainers like @Roger and @murali_s who think it will be super simple to Rejoin
I'm as strong a rejoiner as you are a Brexiter. I see no point in even considering this for at least a decade, and also not until all major parties are in favour. And it's probably not worth doing, for all the reasons you state, even if the EU would have us back, which I doubt. Regrettably for me, it won't happen in my lifetime (I think we're about the same age).
I would just like somebody - anybody - to have some ideas of things we can do differently while we have our freedom and give Brexit a proper try while we wait for the 30-40 or so years before we can rejoin.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Arguably, Labour have been doing that. NHS waiting lists are coming down. Immigration is down. Deportations are up. Inflation was down (before the Trumpflation of the Iran War hit). But they’re not getting much credit for any of it.
And did Labour’s policies have any impact on any of those things, or is it just things unwinding?
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
None of that will touch the sides. Do all that if you want but you need the Big Bang as well to satiate the screaming anger out there about how broken everything is.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
My wife and I are off to a wine bar this afternoon.
Christ with drink prices as they are you must be doing well for yourself....
During Covid I discovered the pleasures of meeting a friend, outdoors - in a park or by the Thames - with a bottle of wine each. We sit on a blanket or deck chairs and open his bottle, then mine, or vice versa, and we discuss the wines and the world
We still do it even tho the pando is long gone. Because it is, I gotta say, often much nicer than going to a pub or a Hackney wine bar, because of course you bring sensational wines, and don't have to suffer mediocre bottles that cost £50
Only problem is the British weather, which makes it impossible for seven months of the year
You could do it in your house. Or his house. But for reasons I can't put my finger on, perhaps that would be weird.
It is honestly staggering that this feels like the actions of Labour in 2009 after being in office since 1997, not the actions of a government elected TWO YEARS AGO.
Everyone can see this is over. But apparently not Keir Starmer. I conclude he’s thick as pig shit.
I disagree. His objective is beat Sunak, Johnson et al in the league table and to leave at a time of his choosing. And he knows that Labour is frit. So he toughs it out
Can you imagine what it's like in there at this precise moment. "OK guys, just did what you advised. Sat down with Gordon. He's in good form. How's it going down? Good response from the PLP? Press giving it a good review? Social media liking it?"...
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
None of that will touch the sides. Do all that if you want but you need the Big Bang as well to satiate the screaming anger out there about how broken everything is.
And they’ve now wasted 2 years which means that nothing much is going to have changed / been built by the next election.
If Reform said Labour have spent 4 years staring at their belly button what could they show to contradict that statement
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
My wife and I are off to a wine bar this afternoon.
Christ with drink prices as they are you must be doing well for yourself....
During Covid I discovered the pleasures of meeting a friend, outdoors - in a park or by the Thames - with a bottle of wine each. We sit on a blanket or deck chairs and open his bottle, then mine, or vice versa, and we discuss the wines and the world
We still do it even tho the pando is long gone. Because it is, I gotta say, often much nicer than going to a pub or a Hackney wine bar, because of course you bring sensational wines, and don't have to suffer mediocre bottles that cost £50
Only problem is the British weather, which makes it impossible for seven months of the year
You could do it in your house. Or his house. But for reasons I can't put my finger on, perhaps that would be weird.
We have done that, but my friends and I find we enjoy the outdoors version a lot more. Because you get the sense of "going out", but much nicer wine and less money and just a better time, in many ways
Sitting in the Regent's Park in the evening sun with an old friend drinking excellent Assyrtiko is extremely hard to beat. Not many bars can do it. Maybe none
If you host then there is more pressure to provide food, worry about others, all that nonsense
Also: we are nearly all of an age when we don't want to be out til 3am. 9pm is just fine
Tim Stanley @timothy_stanley · 54m Fans of decline, like me, are in for a treat. This is like Weimar meets the Crossroads reboot (so badly received, it had to go soft core).
Andrew Marr says Farage will be the PM after the next election. I disagree. May I suggest a little calm amidst the hype, based on these boring thoughts
1) On Thursday about 73% of those who voted didn't vote for Reform. Almost all hyped up comment has ignored their existence. 2) Projections of NEV from Thursday's elections gave Reform about a 7 point lead over the next place (Sky, Rallings and Thrasher 3) Reform got 27% of the vote (NEV) and a 4 point swap between them and the Tories would put (astonishingly) Tories in the lead 4) Starmer won't be PM at the next election 5) Reform have peaked from their 35% polling 6) Farage is widely hated 6) The Green vote has a strong 'O Jeremy Corbyn' feel about it and is flaky, split between young impressionable and older enthusiastic recyclers 7) At the next GE the 70%+ non Reform vote will operate tactically 8) Reform are about 11/4 to get a majority in the next GE.
You keep on posting something like this, but you don't present much evidence for it.
Most Tory voters will tactically vote for Reform to stop a Labour or Green victory. Very few Labour or Green voters will vote tactically for a Tory to stop a Reform victory. Your anti-Reform 70+% doesn't exist.
We know this from the opinion polling and the evidence of by-elections.
If Reform maintain a lead then FPTP will deliver them a winner's bonus, and it's possible they win a majority on a very low national share of the vote.
Thanks. All fair points.
It seems to me that my points 1,2,3,5,6,8 are more or less factual. 4 is massively probable. 7 is a guess or intuition. I never claim that 70%+ is the anti-Reform vote, but that it is the non-Reform vote. My guess is that a substantial number of the 70+% non Reform voters will vote to keep Reform out and that 'who to vote for to keep Reform out in your seat' will be a major industry from 2028 onwards, and will have an effect.
The reason for making my general point, whether right or wrong, is that extensive coverage of Thursday's elections have almost (except for Wales and Scotland) erased the realities of the 70% voting for Lab, Con, LD, Green and so on. This leads to a mistaken understanding what is going on. Which is 'fragmentation and disillusion - Yes'; 'Reform electorally unsurpassable - No.'
Guesses about the future (betting relies on these to exist) involves imagining ahead. I imagine that the near prospect of a Reform government will, like being hanged in a fortnight, concentrate minds in quite a different way from this moment.
I agree with your points except for the 70% anti-Reform bit. It's clear that the majority of (ex?) Tories are right wing enough to prefer Reform to Labour. But there is a large minority like yourself who don't. Secondly there are also a number like me who are prepared if necessary to vote Tory to keep Reform out, but think then Greens under current management are just as bad and I won't vote for them either. There must also be a large chunk of people on the left who won't vote Tory under any circumstances.
That feels more like a voter coalition of 50% not 70%, at best. Might it be not quite enough?
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Decent ideas.
But to really move the dial (and it will take more than the three years to the election to see the real benefits), radical planning reform, and devolution of power and finance to local government.
The later is about the only thing which has any chance at all of shifting the economic underperformance of the English regions.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
I think the public want better public services and more money in their pocket , that’s it ! Is that the Change ? If it’s something else then what ?
I find the whole change mantra utter vacuous drivel . At least For The Many Not The Few was a decent mantra and you got what it meant .
Yes, they leaned super hard into the change narrative at the GE, just look at the cover of the manifesto, and that works because all GEs are ultimately about 'Time for a change" or 'Don't risk change", but what you are changing to is an important question, and I think political activists (on left and right) think people want transformation and revolution a lot more than they actually do, when what they mostly want is steady improvement and value for money.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
@OnlyLivingBoy is a centrist Dad of a certain age, who hasn't quite realised he's now a bit out of touch. I do not condemn him for this: it happens to us all, me included
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
Labour to use an analogy should have bulldozed through planning and told the NIMBYS to suck it up .
Their house building target has already bitten the dust because of the timid approach . Nothing gets done in this country because of the constant whining and endless planning reviews .
A usually loyal minister texts: “This Harriet and Gordon thing would suggest they haven’t learnt anything. It doesn’t reek of the future and of change.”
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
I'd heard of Lardo! Fair play. Planners should be kinder about addressing.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Indeed. On of my occasional pleasures is to have a mosey around in London with my daughters (both in their early 20s) and we often end up in a trendy area for a coffee or a drink, where I am often the oldest person present. There is a buzz and a vibe and I love it. Quite how any of them can afford to live in places like Hackney and have enough spare cash also to go out is a mystery I'm determined to solve!
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
It seems from Leon’s internet research that some of them now do indeed call themselves wine bars again, perhaps from some sort of retro reference.
I’m sure OLB goes to plenty such places, after all inner London is awash with them, but considers them simply to be bars.
So you’re welcome to have your reference returned intact. Whether politicos are indeed cooking up policy in places like this is another question.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
@OnlyLivingBoy is a centrist Dad of a certain age, who hasn't quite realised he's now a bit out of touch. I do not condemn him for this: it happens to us all, me included
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
As a Londoner who is still just about thirty something (38) married to another one who is also thirty something (33) I think I've probably got more insight on what younger generations do in the evenings. It also helps that I've got a team of junior analysts who work for me and they're generally under 30. What surprises me is how much more socialised the women are vs the men in my team. The dudes will come alive when talking about work or football but generally uninterested in post work drinks, even for free, while the women are happy talking about anything and will always come out for post work drinks on Thursday. Yet on the flip side when we did an organised social where we went bowling it was the guys who were the life of the party both during the bowling and then drinks afterwards. It's genuinely a struggle to get them to work together as a team right now.
As an MP posted on X earlier: there are WORSE ideas than this that must have been considered and rejected by those responsible in No 10
I think @StillWaters nailed it, actually, half an hour ago
There is literally nothing else Starmer can do. He has no ideas, so he cannot offer new ideas. He is profoundly timid, so he isn't going to do anything truly radical or brave. What is left is the common response of embattled PMs, a reshuffle. But, he is too weak to do even that. Any sacked minister will probably challenge him, and that's the end
Nor can he promote young people, because that would also annoy those not promoted, and might also kick off a challenge
This is all that remains. Appoint two total and inoffensive has-beens, to completely meaningless roles, in an attempt to look like he is doing "something"
It is pathetic sad and very funny
And that really is me for a few hours. I must work, despite the panto. Anon!
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
I’ve just realised that if Reform do win the next GE, at least one of Labour or the Tories won’t be the leader of the opposition with no official shadow cabinet. That’ll be new
A Reform government with a Tory opposition would be my nightmare scenario, but I can appreciate the comedic value of the response to it.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Decent ideas.
But to really move the dial (and it will take more than the three years to the election to see the real benefits), radical planning reform, and devolution of power and finance to local government.
The later is about the only thing which has any chance at all of shifting the economic underperformance of the English regions.
Problem is there isn’t time to do that now - that was something you needed to start 2 years ago on day 1.
And you need to stop the Treasury from getting involved which would have meant someone not Reeves being there
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Despite the impression they like to give, Reform is even more London Establishment than the others.
I think what has become clear to me at least, is Reform does not have broad and deep support on the level say Johnson had or Blair had at their peaks.
They can win a majority but it will not be on 40% of the vote.
You are correct. That's why they need the Tories' 19-21%. The two parties together form a mandate for some of the very profound constitutiinal changes we need. You can't do it on a slim majority.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
It seems from Leon’s internet research that some of them now do indeed call themselves wine bars again, perhaps from some sort of retro reference.
I’m sure OLB goes to plenty such places, after all inner London is awash with them, but considers them simply to be bars.
So you’re welcome to have your reference returned intact. Whether politicos are indeed cooking up policy in places like this is another question.
It was Vagabond that brought the term to London when it opened its first bar in 2010. No one in my generation or Gen Z even knows whatever the 80s image of a wine bar was and I generally don't see many people over 40 in them so maybe that's why? Stuffy older people can't let go of that meme and people who never saw it don't care about it.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
Extending that a bit, the entirety of the UK political establishment (and I suspect Reform will prove no different) is predominantly London centric. Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
@OnlyLivingBoy is a centrist Dad of a certain age, who hasn't quite realised he's now a bit out of touch. I do not condemn him for this: it happens to us all, me included
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
Though we know the caffs are no longer fit for metropolitan libs, I believe the student baristas talk of nothing else but their disillusionment with Zack and how Reform are a great bunch of lads.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Decent ideas.
But to really move the dial (and it will take more than the three years to the election to see the real benefits), radical planning reform, and devolution of power and finance to local government.
The later is about the only thing which has any chance at all of shifting the economic underperformance of the English regions.
Problem is there isn’t time to do that now - that was something you needed to start 2 years ago on day 1.
And you need to stop the Treasury from getting involved which would have meant someone not Reeves being there
Yes, which is pretty well what we said back then. But you've got to start somewhere (preferably now), and I don't really care which party ends up with the credit, if and when it happens.
Wes Streeting cannot look at this and think “I really need to wait”.
Yes. I just hope against hope that Streeting is waiting for the final results to be in before acting. Otherwise it makes no sense, from his perspective.
I don't like Streeting's politics and factional allegiances personally, but whoever casts the first stone against Starmer is going to get some kudos not just with the party membership but also with the general public. As you say it's clearly in his interest to act while the other leading candidates are compromised. The fact that some are going around (including on this site) saying that Labour has to avoid an embarrassing civil war entirely misses the public mood of wanting rid of Starmer. The longer the leading figures in the party wait, the more they are going to be damaged by their complicity in keeping Starmer.
I also think that Miliband has the potential to force things. Basically Miliband can say publically that Starmer has two weeks to name a departure date, and that if he doesn't by then he can say he'll launch a direct challenge although if others came in he can also say that he'd consider stepping down in their favour if they do. Miliband will gain tremendous acclaim for forcing the issue if Streeting doesn't, it'll do a lot to rebuild his rather unfair image from 2015 in the eyes of the general public (although IMO being PM would too.) Miliband doesn't even need to resign to do it, if Starmer dares sack him then Starmer knows he will be igniting the touchpaper anyway.
The relevant parallel is with Thatcher's demise in 1990. Yes it was a really messy civil war. But the Conservative Party came out of it vastly strengthened, and more so than if Thatcher had just quietly stepped down and nominated John Major as her successor, in which case more would have regarded Major as more of the same and the Conservatives would have had much less of a poll bounce.
What really gets me about all this is the idea that it's up to the Cabinet collectively to act. No it's not, it's down to backbenchers collectively. The Cabinet are the last people who can be expected to act. Starmer has been so factional that most of them are just there because they're his people, not because they deserve to be. More than half of them know that they will be out on their talentless heels if Starmer goes. The talentless flunky Emma Reynolds is a prime case in point - someone held in very low regard by the local party here in Wolverhampton before she relocated after losing her Wolves NE seat and was immediately rewarded by Starmer/McSweeney on her return in 2024. And does anyone think for a moment that Reeves would keep her job if Starmer went, especially given that she has managed the almost impossible trick of being as derided as Starmer in the polls?
What next, they announce Starmer is going to do Starmer Directs, where is stands on a soap box in the likes of Wigan and Stoke high streets taking questions from the public?
I'd like to see at least one politician try that. It's clear that the younger generation of politicians - e.g. Polanski and Badenoch - spend far too much time online, and they would be far better off spending more time talking to random people and people in specific sectors - e.g. construction, pharmaceuticals, health, startups - about the problems they face and ideas they have to fix them.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
It seems from Leon’s internet research that some of them now do indeed call themselves wine bars again, perhaps from some sort of retro reference.
I’m sure OLB goes to plenty such places, after all inner London is awash with them, but considers them simply to be bars.
So you’re welcome to have your reference returned intact. Whether politicos are indeed cooking up policy in places like this is another question.
It was Vagabond that brought the term to London when it opened its first bar in 2010. No one in my generation or Gen Z even knows whatever the 80s image of a wine bar was and I generally don't see many people over 40 in them so maybe that's why? Stuffy older people can't let go of that meme and people who never saw it don't care about it.
I am potentially going to be stocking my wines in Vagabond when they’re released. Had a chat with them a few weeks ago.
It is @OnlyLivingBoy who is showing his age and out-of-touchness. @MaxPB is too young, anyway, to remember the 80s incarnation of "the wine bar"
I've been to 107, it's got a great selection of wines and pretty good food too. Well worth a visit if you're looking for somewhere to waste an evening.
This is Rishi in the rain with no brolly level stuff....
It’s worse than that.
It is. It is far worse than that
Rishi and the brolly symbolised the inept but inevitable end of a jaded government running out of road. It was a mistake, and it looked sad
This is a prime minister with a massive majority and three years to go, who keeps making insane unforced errors
Who the fucking fuck believes that baroness Harman and Gordon Brown are the answer to his problems!?? How tone deaf can you get?
Rishi was actually making some progress in fixing our problems, despite the missteps.
That's the real tragedy.
In his first year, perhaps, but then he seemed to panic about the opinion polls and started performing random acts of sabotage to see if a hail mary pass could shift the polls.
What next, they announce Starmer is going to do Starmer Directs, where is stands on a soap box in the likes of Wigan and Stoke high streets taking questions from the public?
I'd like to see at least one politician try that. It's clear that the younger generation of politicians - e.g. Polanski and Badenoch - spend far too much time online, and they would be far better off spending more time talking to random people and people in specific sectors - e.g. construction, pharmaceuticals, health, startups - about the problems they face and ideas they have to fix them.
I think it helped Cameron quite a lot, even if 75% of questions were from Tories. I think part of the issue now is every politician is scared of it going tits up and going viral on social media. However, as I said early this week, Kemi standing up to the free palestine mob in a firm manner won't have done any harm even if among free palestine greenie lot they are probably saying owned her. I think too much is made of one misstep, as long as it isn't bigoted woman level stuff, you fluffing your lines a bit, the world moves on fast.
And I think generally the public have some respect for a politician actually meeting real people, taking a position and sticking to it and really don't like setups like the Lib Dem activist using their disabled kid to try get a viral clip of Cameron in an awkward spot.
Wes Streeting cannot look at this and think “I really need to wait”.
Yes. I just hope against hope that Streeting is waiting for the final results to be in before acting. Otherwise it makes no sense, from his perspective.
I don't like Streeting's politics and factional allegiances personally, but whoever casts the first stone against Starmer is going to get some kudos not just with the party membership but also with the general public. As you say it's clearly in his interest to act while the other leading candidates are compromised. The fact that some are going around (including on this site) saying that Labour has to avoid an embarrassing civil war entirely misses the public mood of wanting rid of Starmer. The longer the leading figures in the party wait, the more they are going to be damaged by their complicity in keeping Starmer.
I also think that Miliband has the potential to force things. Basically Miliband can say publically that Starmer has two weeks to name a departure date, and that if he doesn't by then he can say he'll launch a direct challenge although if others came in he can also say that he'd consider stepping down in their favour if they do. Miliband will gain tremendous acclaim for forcing the issue if Streeting doesn't, it'll do a lot to rebuild his rather unfair image from 2015 in the eyes of the general public (although IMO being PM would too.) Miliband doesn't even need to resign to do it, if Starmer dares sack him then Starmer knows he will be igniting the touchpaper anyway.
The relevant parallel is with Thatcher's demise in 1990. Yes it was a really messy civil war. But the Conservative Party came out of it vastly strengthened, and more so than if Thatcher had just quietly stepped down and nominated John Major as her successor, in which case more would have regarded Major as more of the same and the Conservatives would have had much less of a poll bounce.
What really gets me about all this is the idea that it's up to the Cabinet collectively to act. No it's not, it's down to backbenchers collectively. The Cabinet are the last people who can be expected to act. Starmer has been so factional that most of them are just there because they're his people, not because they deserve to be. More than half of them know that they will be out on their talentless heels if Starmer goes. The talentless flunky Emma Reynolds is a prime case in point - someone held in very low regard by the local party here in Wolverhampton before she relocated after losing her Wolves NE seat and was immediately rewarded by Starmer/McSweeney on her return in 2024. And does anyone think for a moment that Reeves would keep her job if Starmer went, especially given that she has managed the almost impossible trick of being as derided as Starmer in the polls?
Have really enjoyed your analysis on this topic.
My sense with Miliband is that the public perception was that it was unreasonable that he stood against his older brother.
How does him challenging Starmer change the perception that he's grasping for power?
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
It seems from Leon’s internet research that some of them now do indeed call themselves wine bars again, perhaps from some sort of retro reference.
I’m sure OLB goes to plenty such places, after all inner London is awash with them, but considers them simply to be bars.
So you’re welcome to have your reference returned intact. Whether politicos are indeed cooking up policy in places like this is another question.
It was Vagabond that brought the term to London when it opened its first bar in 2010. No one in my generation or Gen Z even knows whatever the 80s image of a wine bar was and I generally don't see many people over 40 in them so maybe that's why? Stuffy older people can't let go of that meme and people who never saw it don't care about it.
I am potentially going to be stocking my wines in Vagabond when they’re released. Had a chat with them a few weeks ago.
That's great, let us know and we can give them a try when they become available. Majestic really got themselves a winning formula with Vagabond. I honestly think the big uptick in wine drinking among young people is partly down to them making it much more approachable and not needing to buy a whole glass just to try. So many places have followed that formula since they started it and wine bars have exploded across all of London.
BTW - hello again everyone. Not that it has one jot of impact on your day, but it was quite like old times over the past few days and I really enjoyed the election day sparring.
Yes, it was good
If nothing else, the complete annihilation of old style uniparty politics has finally injected excitement into Westminster - and even local elections (and PB). People can now vote for 5, 6 or 7 parties knowing that they are voting for something they actually desire, not out of dutiful tribalism
We do need PR at some point
If not now, when ?
Farage wants it; the LibDems have always wanted it; the Greens strongly support it. And Labour are possibly shell shocked enough to recognise their likely inability ever to win another commons majority.
With very broad cross party support, and a large Parliamentary majority, there will never be a better time.
"At some point" just means kick it into the long grass.
I agree. I want PR. But Labour cannot just shove it through with a vote, that would be disastrous and probably dangerous
It either needs to be won in a referendum or as the fulfilment of an explicit manifesto promise, after a GE victory
That said, such is the disgruntled nature of the electorate right now, that referendum might pass today. People WANT change
Starmer has to do something gargantuan to survive, a complete change of narrative.
Three options: 1) Announce that faced with the global economic and security threat we are going to apply to join the EU 2) Announce that with the obvious 6 way electoral politics delivered in recent elections FPTP is unsustainable and not supported by most parties elected in 2024 and thus a change to PR will be introduced 3) Announce that faced with our fiscal crisis he has instructed the Chancellor to place a tax on all foreigners living abroad
Remember folks, parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the fuck it likes. The Tories will bleat on about PR not being in the manifesto whist hoping you have forgotten that the Trussgasm was also not in the manifesto yet they backed that.
Reform will say PR is an attempt to cheat them, despite Farage stating openly that FPTP is an attempt to cheat them which is why they need PR.
Screw it. Roll the dice.
Do small stuff.
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Arguably, Labour have been doing that. NHS waiting lists are coming down. Immigration is down. Deportations are up. Inflation was down (before the Trumpflation of the Iran War hit). But they’re not getting much credit for any of it.
And did Labour’s policies have any impact on any of those things, or is it just things unwinding?
That’s harder to say, sure. I think deportations is about a conscious change from the previous Govt. NHS waiting lists also seems to be about some real investment.
If this is Keith listening to the voters yesterday, I assume that he has been watching a rerun of the 1997 General Election broadcast.
What has happened in this election? Labour humiliated in Scotland. Eviscerated in Wales, with no members elected at all in their former heartlands represented by giants like Nye Bevan. Labour literally removed from existence in swathes of England, with people voting for the Green Reform horseshoe party to punish beat the in office since the Danelaw lot.
They are electing literal wife beaters in some cases. More DEI is not what is being asked for by these voters.
But Labour also lost votes and seats to the Greens (and some of those Reform losses were because they lost votes to the Greens). Maybe more DEI is what Green voters want.
Even if that is true, its all fake spin though, Harriet Harperson has already got this role (and nobody cared).
Re-announcing things is standard practice for government, and everyone else.
Yeah but it didn't work first time to get the Greenie-curious type on board...and you are literally pissing on all the Northern voters who just kicked in his balls chips as being totally out of touch. Genius political strategy.
The point of re-announcing things is that the message didn’t get heard the first time.
I confidently predict this will do fuck all to win them back. They want stronger stance on Gaza, faster action on net zero, rent controls, not retread from Blair era with dodgy record when it comes to "protection of women and girls" being reannoucned to the same job as a year ago (and also social media is quickly sharing this is a bullshit announcement, you can't get away with this stuff as easy as in Gordon Brown days of reannouncement of a reannouncement of a reannouncement).
It would have been better for Starmer to do nothing today than to announce these appointments. At least then people could imagine he was planning something better.
"One of which was that we, rightly in my view, levelled with the public about the challenges that we face as a country both on the finances and internationally - but what we didn't do is enough to convince them about the change that would impact them, how their lives would be better.
"The hope wasn't there enough in the first two years of this government."
'That bigoted woman' moment will be played again and again
I loved that moment because a little at the time, and more often afterwards, people would say that she had been bigoted so it was justified, but of course Brown had apologised on the basis she wasn't so that was completely undermined.
Ok, so Gordon Brown's role might sound a bit like "Keir's accountant". But GB is one of the most famous workaholics and, frankly, control freaks in the history of modern British politics and now he is back in government after 16 years away. 16 years in which he has both pored over the legacy of New Labour and sharply critiqued all the government's that followed it. Let's see how wide-ranging he is able to make his role and what he does with it
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do.
Us Shire folk are not welcome in the big city for more than day trips.
It is @OnlyLivingBoy who is showing his age and out-of-touchness. @MaxPB is too young, anyway, to remember the 80s incarnation of "the wine bar"
I've been to 107, it's got a great selection of wines and pretty good food too. Well worth a visit if you're looking for somewhere to waste an evening.
It is @OnlyLivingBoy who is showing his age and out-of-touchness. @MaxPB is too young, anyway, to remember the 80s incarnation of "the wine bar"
One of my most disturbing memories is going into a wine bar in Oxford in my teens and a local woman (probably in her 50s) looking at me and literally licking her lips
I do not see how anyone associated with the Starmer administration engineers a poll bounce, for the same reason that bringing back the fossils is unlikely to ameliorate the situation
"One of which was that we, rightly in my view, levelled with the public about the challenges that we face as a country both on the finances and internationally - but what we didn't do is enough to convince them about the change that would impact them, how their lives would be better.
"The hope wasn't there enough in the first two years of this government."
I think it would have been considerably better if Keir had said nothing at all since election, except occasional interviews with no comments section. Social media is a shit-magnet and whatever it touches makes things worse.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
@OnlyLivingBoy is a centrist Dad of a certain age, who hasn't quite realised he's now a bit out of touch. I do not condemn him for this: it happens to us all, me included
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
You couldn’t understand why people would vote Green, yet there are hundreds of them right where you live; indeed you just came within 37 votes of having a Green councillor !
Wes Streeting cannot look at this and think “I really need to wait”.
Yes. I just hope against hope that Streeting is waiting for the final results to be in before acting. Otherwise it makes no sense, from his perspective.
I don't like Streeting's politics and factional allegiances personally, but whoever casts the first stone against Starmer is going to get some kudos not just with the party membership but also with the general public. As you say it's clearly in his interest to act while the other leading candidates are compromised. The fact that some are going around (including on this site) saying that Labour has to avoid an embarrassing civil war entirely misses the public mood of wanting rid of Starmer. The longer the leading figures in the party wait, the more they are going to be damaged by their complicity in keeping Starmer.
I also think that Miliband has the potential to force things. Basically Miliband can say publically that Starmer has two weeks to name a departure date, and that if he doesn't by then he can say he'll launch a direct challenge although if others came in he can also say that he'd consider stepping down in their favour if they do. Miliband will gain tremendous acclaim for forcing the issue if Streeting doesn't, it'll do a lot to rebuild his rather unfair image from 2015 in the eyes of the general public (although IMO being PM would too.) Miliband doesn't even need to resign to do it, if Starmer dares sack him then Starmer knows he will be igniting the touchpaper anyway.
The relevant parallel is with Thatcher's demise in 1990. Yes it was a really messy civil war. But the Conservative Party came out of it vastly strengthened, and more so than if Thatcher had just quietly stepped down and nominated John Major as her successor, in which case more would have regarded Major as more of the same and the Conservatives would have had much less of a poll bounce.
What really gets me about all this is the idea that it's up to the Cabinet collectively to act. No it's not, it's down to backbenchers collectively. The Cabinet are the last people who can be expected to act. Starmer has been so factional that most of them are just there because they're his people, not because they deserve to be. More than half of them know that they will be out on their talentless heels if Starmer goes. The talentless flunky Emma Reynolds is a prime case in point - someone held in very low regard by the local party here in Wolverhampton before she relocated after losing her Wolves NE seat and was immediately rewarded by Starmer/McSweeney on her return in 2024. And does anyone think for a moment that Reeves would keep her job if Starmer went, especially given that she has managed the almost impossible trick of being as derided as Starmer in the polls?
Have really enjoyed your analysis on this topic.
My sense with Miliband is that the public perception was that it was unreasonable that he stood against his older brother.
How does him challenging Starmer change the perception that he's grasping for power?
Thanks.
To clarify, what I mean is that Miliband could publically say something along the lines of "if you don't stand down Keir and no-one in the meantime stands against you then I'm going to seek 80 nominations in two weeks time although I might throw my endorsement behind someone else should others then join in." Miliband is clearly trying to force things - clearly he placed the Times article yesterday.
That would be more acting as a stalking horse than going for it himself, although Miliband could still end up as PM - Rayner might still hang back and he won't stand down in favour of Streeting. So not really grasping for power but more doing Labour a service, with the nice reward of the door to No 11 on the back of it.
And that could actually open the door to Burnham (a chink) if Starmer decides to throw in the towel and announce a timetable within the two weeks and Streeting then hangs back.
"One of which was that we, rightly in my view, levelled with the public about the challenges that we face as a country both on the finances and internationally - but what we didn't do is enough to convince them about the change that would impact them, how their lives would be better.
"The hope wasn't there enough in the first two years of this government."
I think it would have been considerably better if Keir had said nothing at all since election, except occasional interviews with no comments section. Social media is a shit-magnet and whatever it touches makes things worse.
It sounds crazy, but a bunker mentality to avoid the immediate social media frenzy might actually work. Everyone wants news and action immediately, so don't feed it and the media and twitter don't know what to do.
Now, that doesn't solve the problems of chronic unpopularity, but being too reactive to every online clusterfrack probably doesn't help in the short term.
“The PM committed to do more to eradicate structural misogyny and achieve a cultural change. This appointment will help to accelerate progress”
Down the Dog and Duck in Sunderland it what you hear the locals saying every night.
But you may overhear that kind of nonsense in a wine bar in Hackney where all of these policy advisers live after work.
"Wine bar in Hackney" lol. The eighties called and want their cliche back.
You do realise there are quite a lot of trendy bars in Hackney, many of which serve wine?
There are plenty here in Lewisham too. Nobody calls them wine bars.
The last true wine bar in the environs of Hackney (is Walford in Hackney?) was Dagmar’s, on Albert Square.
107 Wine Shop & Bar, 107 Lower Clapton Road, London E5 0NP Binch, 51 Greenwood Road, London E8 1NT Yuki Bar, 426 Reading Lane, London E8 1DS Planque, Arches 322–324, Acton Mews, London E8 4EA Bruno, 211a Victoria Park Road, London E9 7JN Bastardo, Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road, London E8 3NJ Passione Vino Shoreditch, 85 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4QS Albers, 23A Englefield Road, London N1 4JX
Nothing says quality like "Unit 3, 201 Richmond Road,"
I get the sense not many PBers have been to modern Hackney
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
It is interesting to see how little knowledge PBers have about what trendy Londoners do. I'm surprised that @OnlyLivingBoy is unable to recognise the reality of modern London and what young people, especially women between 25 and 35, do after work or on a Saturday afternoon. Relating it to some 80s meme I've never heard of shows how out of touch he actually is. I'd blame it on living south of the river but I've also been to some pretty nice wine bars in Peckham.
@OnlyLivingBoy is a centrist Dad of a certain age, who hasn't quite realised he's now a bit out of touch. I do not condemn him for this: it happens to us all, me included
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
Though we know the caffs are no longer fit for metropolitan libs, I believe the student baristas talk of nothing else but their disillusionment with Zack and how Reform are a great bunch of lads.
Comments
Whereas if Starmer were Tory PM ...
£5 per night hotel tax in London to go to fund national collections (national gallery etc). £2 per night outside London to go to local councils
1p on the basic rate of tax and 2pm on the higher rate to fund social care. Do it from next April. Set up a royal commission to figure out how a national social care system should work but until it reports just give the money to local councils to cover their costs
Reform the education special needs in the way Wales did to focus resources on those who actually need help - and fund them properly
Replace the Triple Lock with the Pension Guarantee. Fix it to a percentage of minimum wage. If you want to be clever if someone volunteers for 10 hours per week through the NVS they get an additional payment.
Reform PIP, again to focus the money on where it is needed most.
Go through government spending line by line and focus on programmes that are not having a meaningful impact. Require - say - a 2% saving in all departmental spending next year (and layer any planned increases off the reduced baseline).
That’s just for starters.
Bastardo is next to Lardo, it calls itself a wine bar. And look, it's very pleasant
https://www.lardo.co.uk/privateevents
https://wanderlog.com/place/details/14918852/bastardo-by-lardo
"Nestled adjacent to the popular Lardo pizza spot in London Fields, Bastardo stands out as a vibrant and inviting wine bar that breaks away from traditional norms. Here, the focus is on inclusivity—there's no need to feel intimidated by wine terminology or classifications. The interior boasts a charming ambiance, but it's the delightful outdoor terrace adorned with potted olive trees and bathed in soft sunlight that truly beckons you to unwind and savor your weekend afternoons with a glass of something special."
4.8/5
Bach and leather books on mahogany shelves = radical change, Stravinsky and abstract art = nothing new.
A party called Reform will try and keep things as they used to be, which (paradoxically, I know) will mean they make things worse.
I think you'd want a referendum, but I suspect the four EFTA members would be quite happy to have the UK in.............
Farage would campaign against it, but just get the many clips of him talking about a 'free trade deal with the EU' and state that EFTA's clue is in the name.
I really don't see the sense of bringing back Brown and Harman; yesterday's people. Although I've generally a lot of time for them both both but not in 'active' roles. That particularly applies to Brown, who seems much more suited to a 'reflective' role. From all I read, reacting well to pressure wasn't, and probably still isn't, one of his skills.
I'll be interested to see hove Reform manage in this patch, Essex; I strongly suspect that we won't have another Epping hotel fiasco, but the old airbase at Wethersfield is still being used to house asylum seekers whose cases are under consideration. What the new County Councillors can or will do about that I don't know. Nor, I suspect, do they.
In the wider world, one of Reform's 'policies' here was to 'Get Starmer out'; if he does go that will of course be described as a Reform victory. I suspect he should go, because clearly he's lost the confidence of the electorate, and I've searched my memory to think which of the PM's during my life has caused so many people to 'hate' him. And I can't find one. Several were considered incompetent and or dishonest by significant parts of the electorate, but hatred... no.
And if I were them I'd definitely say if you're coming back in you are coming in all the way.
Once you're in the euro it is basically impossible to leave the euro, or leave the EU, as Greece and others have discovered. This is how the EU would make sure we are joining for good (and who can blame them, they don't want another Brexit in eight years). The euro would be a very difficult sell in a referendum. Britain giving up a huge chunk of economic sovereignty, forever?
Not impossible, but certainly difficult
And now, to work, to earn some soveriegn pounds. Later
Though in reality the number of real people even in wine bars using terms like 'structural misogyny' is so vanishingly small as to alienate almost everyone.
I would just like somebody - anybody - to have some ideas of things we can do differently while we have our freedom and give Brexit a proper try while we wait for the 30-40 or so years before we can rejoin.
So this is a simulacrum of a reshuffle with people who have nothing to lose
https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2053062759202365643?s=20
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/reform-uk-candidate-who-said-33914559
If Reform said Labour have spent 4 years staring at their belly button what could they show to contradict that statement
Sitting in the Regent's Park in the evening sun with an old friend drinking excellent Assyrtiko is extremely hard to beat. Not many bars can do it. Maybe none
If you host then there is more pressure to provide food, worry about others, all that nonsense
Also: we are nearly all of an age when we don't want to be out til 3am. 9pm is just fine
@timothy_stanley
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54m
Fans of decline, like me, are in for a treat. This is like Weimar meets the Crossroads reboot (so badly received, it had to go soft core).
https://x.com/timothy_stanley/status/2053054930550673816
That feels more like a voter coalition of 50% not 70%, at best. Might it be not quite enough?
But to really move the dial (and it will take more than the three years to the election to see the real benefits), radical planning reform, and devolution of power and finance to local government.
The later is about the only thing which has any chance at all of shifting the economic underperformance of the English regions.
I think the public want better public services and more money in their pocket , that’s it ! Is that the Change ? If it’s something else then what ?
I find the whole change mantra utter vacuous drivel . At least For The Many Not The Few was a decent mantra and you got what it meant .
But back to my original point, I think this reaction just proves how out of touch Labour leadership and policy advisers are with their potential voters. I'm almost certain if you did a demographic check on Labour's policy advisers it would be predominantly white, female, under 40, single and living in one of Islington, Clapham or Hackney.
He'll defect or quit inside two years, that sort cannot play nice with others for long.
The only reason I am a bit more in touch, for now, is that my profession means I interact with a lot of Londoners in their 20s and 30s
Their house building target has already bitten the dust because of the timid approach . Nothing gets done in this country because of the constant whining and endless planning reviews .
https://x.com/breeallegretti/status/2053065440247611796?s=20
Which is a problem for the rest of us who don't live inside the M25.
Milburn, Powell, Mandy, Brown, Harman, Robertson, Smith...
A Labour source texts: “Keir answers every question about our future with people from the past.”
https://x.com/ShippersUnbound/status/2053068479247290662?s=20
I’m sure OLB goes to plenty such places, after all inner London is awash with them, but considers them simply to be bars.
So you’re welcome to have your reference returned intact. Whether politicos are indeed cooking up policy in places like this is another question.
There is literally nothing else Starmer can do. He has no ideas, so he cannot offer new ideas. He is profoundly timid, so he isn't going to do anything truly radical or brave. What is left is the common response of embattled PMs, a reshuffle. But, he is too weak to do even that. Any sacked minister will probably challenge him, and that's the end
Nor can he promote young people, because that would also annoy those not promoted, and might also kick off a challenge
This is all that remains. Appoint two total and inoffensive has-beens, to completely meaningless roles, in an attempt to look like he is doing "something"
It is pathetic sad and very funny
And that really is me for a few hours. I must work, despite the panto. Anon!
And you need to stop the Treasury from getting involved which would have meant someone not Reeves being there
But you've got to start somewhere (preferably now), and I don't really care which party ends up with the credit, if and when it happens.
I don't like Streeting's politics and factional allegiances personally, but whoever casts the first stone against Starmer is going to get some kudos not just with the party membership but also with the general public. As you say it's clearly in his interest to act while the other leading candidates are compromised. The fact that some are going around (including on this site) saying that Labour has to avoid an embarrassing civil war entirely misses the public mood of wanting rid of Starmer. The longer the leading figures in the party wait, the more they are going to be damaged by their complicity in keeping Starmer.
I also think that Miliband has the potential to force things. Basically Miliband can say publically that Starmer has two weeks to name a departure date, and that if he doesn't by then he can say he'll launch a direct challenge although if others came in he can also say that he'd consider stepping down in their favour if they do. Miliband will gain tremendous acclaim for forcing the issue if Streeting doesn't, it'll do a lot to rebuild his rather unfair image from 2015 in the eyes of the general public (although IMO being PM would too.) Miliband doesn't even need to resign to do it, if Starmer dares sack him then Starmer knows he will be igniting the touchpaper anyway.
The relevant parallel is with Thatcher's demise in 1990. Yes it was a really messy civil war. But the Conservative Party came out of it vastly strengthened, and more so than if Thatcher had just quietly stepped down and nominated John Major as her successor, in which case more would have regarded Major as more of the same and the Conservatives would have had much less of a poll bounce.
What really gets me about all this is the idea that it's up to the Cabinet collectively to act. No it's not, it's down to backbenchers collectively. The Cabinet are the last people who can be expected to act. Starmer has been so factional that most of them are just there because they're his people, not because they deserve to be. More than half of them know that they will be out on their talentless heels if Starmer goes. The talentless flunky Emma Reynolds is a prime case in point - someone held in very low regard by the local party here in Wolverhampton before she relocated after losing her Wolves NE seat and was immediately rewarded by Starmer/McSweeney on her return in 2024. And does anyone think for a moment that Reeves would keep her job if Starmer went, especially given that she has managed the almost impossible trick of being as derided as Starmer in the polls?
And I think generally the public have some respect for a politician actually meeting real people, taking a position and sticking to it and really don't like setups like the Lib Dem activist using their disabled kid to try get a viral clip of Cameron in an awkward spot.
My sense with Miliband is that the public perception was that it was unreasonable that he stood against his older brother.
How does him challenging Starmer change the perception that he's grasping for power?
"One of which was that we, rightly in my view, levelled with the public about the challenges that we face as a country both on the finances and internationally - but what we didn't do is enough to convince them about the change that would impact them, how their lives would be better.
"The hope wasn't there enough in the first two years of this government."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1428pev1n0t
Ethan Croft
@EthanCroft98
Ok, so Gordon Brown's role might sound a bit like "Keir's accountant". But GB is one of the most famous workaholics and, frankly, control freaks in the history of modern British politics and now he is back in government after 16 years away. 16 years in which he has both pored over the legacy of New Labour and sharply critiqued all the government's that followed it. Let's see how wide-ranging he is able to make his role and what he does with it
https://x.com/EthanCroft98/status/2053058336841408525
To clarify, what I mean is that Miliband could publically say something along the lines of "if you don't stand down Keir and no-one in the meantime stands against you then I'm going to seek 80 nominations in two weeks time although I might throw my endorsement behind someone else should others then join in." Miliband is clearly trying to force things - clearly he placed the Times article yesterday.
That would be more acting as a stalking horse than going for it himself, although Miliband could still end up as PM - Rayner might still hang back and he won't stand down in favour of Streeting. So not really grasping for power but more doing Labour a service, with the nice reward of the door to No 11 on the back of it.
And that could actually open the door to Burnham (a chink) if Starmer decides to throw in the towel and announce a timetable within the two weeks and Streeting then hangs back.
Now, that doesn't solve the problems of chronic unpopularity, but being too reactive to every online clusterfrack probably doesn't help in the short term.
The second just quit the party