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Starmer was a drag on the Labour vote in Wales but the King of the North might need to become the Ki

SystemSystem Posts: 13,174
edited May 8 in General
Starmer was a drag on the Labour vote in Wales but the King of the North might need to become the King of the South.– politicalbetting.com

'Edinburgh Central is a constituency that's much changed from when I won it in 2021, the boundaries have significantly changed, and I think that was a contributory factor'SNP minister Angus Robertson speaks after losing his seat to Lorna Slater??????: ????????? pic.twitter.com/g1lWPYly97

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Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814
    edited May 8

    Looks like Senedd 43 PC , 34 REF, 9 LAB, 7 CON, 2 GRN, 1 LD.

    So Labour avoid being pushed into fourth but still end up on single digits for seats. An incredible collapse in their heartland.

    Brutal. Going single digits means remaining above anyone else is not even cold comfort.

    It's looked fragile but always held up before, but it was obviously more brittle than anyone could have expected.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    Surely part of Labour doing badly in Manchester in particular was the rejection of Burnham as a candidate? If he is a candidate he will be a change the government candidate just like Reform and Green.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,184
    I rarely comment on Scots politics but Lorna Slater is a fucking idiot.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    edited May 8
    Aha! Labour x2 and Reform x1 in Kenton (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently:

    Reform 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Green 18
    Independent 3
    Labour 2
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,325
    Labour now into second place in terms of councillors.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,184
    Reform gain S Tyneside from NOC.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    edited May 8
    Labour now second on English council seats won. So Burnham might well still win a northern seat, in Greater Manchester Labour have held Manchester, Salford, Rochdale and Wigan councils.

    Reform 1079, Labour 685, LDs 681, Conservatives 612, Greens 343

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news#election-england
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,600

    Aha! Labour x2 and Reform x1 in Kenton (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently:

    Reform 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Green 18
    Independent 3
    Labour 2

    Fpt I said

    Kenton Labour's best hope in the City. Too posh for Reform, not posh enough for Lib Dems, too old for Greens?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814
    nico67 said:

    Labour now into second place in terms of councillors.

    And Con down to fourth. It's a minor thing, but holding second would have been a helpful spin line at least.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    dixiedean said:

    Aha! Labour x2 and Reform x1 in Kenton (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently:

    Reform 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Green 18
    Independent 3
    Labour 2

    Fpt I said

    Kenton Labour's best hope in the City. Too posh for Reform, not posh enough for Lib Dems, too old for Greens?
    Nicely done!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,828
    kle4 said:

    Looks like Senedd 43 PC , 34 REF, 9 LAB, 7 CON, 2 GRN, 1 LD.

    So Labour avoid being pushed into fourth but still end up on single digits for seats. An incredible collapse in their heartland.

    Brutal. Going single digits means remaining above anyone else is not even cold comfort.

    It's looked fragile but always held up before, but it was obviously more brittle than anyone could have expected.
    I don't think that is true. There was a big Labour vote for Plaid to see off Reform.

    Even so,, Labour did very badly and most definitely Labour voters voted PC to punish Starmer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,828
    edited May 8
    HYUFD said:

    Labour now second on English council seats won. So Burnham might well still win a northern seat, in Greater Manchester Labour have held Manchester, Salford, Rochdale and Wigan councils.

    Reform 1079, Labour 685, LDs 681, Conservatives 612, Greens 343

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news#election-england

    The losses tell the story not the councillors won.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    Reform x3 in Throckley, Walbottle and Newburn (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently:

    Reform 24
    Lib Dem 19
    Green 18
    Independent 3
    Labour 2
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,612
    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,809
    Greens gain a seat in Redbridge (Wanstead Park), but only two wards declared so far.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,814
    The BBC throwing some shade at most SNP candidates in describing the excellent win in Shetland.

    She works for a Norwegian energy company and runs a mobile sauna business and, as such, will be one of the few SNP MSPs who doesn't come with prior political experience.

    Are the SNP appreciably more 'political' with their candidates than others?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388
    Labour holds North London Dinner Party Central

  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,325
    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    They’re too busy fellating Farage !
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,809
    Redbridge Independents (ie. Corbyn fans) gain a seat in Ilford Town Ward at the expense of Labour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    kle4 said:

    Looks like Senedd 43 PC , 34 REF, 9 LAB, 7 CON, 2 GRN, 1 LD.

    So Labour avoid being pushed into fourth but still end up on single digits for seats. An incredible collapse in their heartland.

    Brutal. Going single digits means remaining above anyone else is not even cold comfort.

    It's looked fragile but always held up before, but it was obviously more brittle than anyone could have expected.
    From Govt to a DUP/LD minor party c&s or coalition tribute act for Plaid
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    Green x3 in Ouseburn (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently (with 2 wards to go):

    Reform 24
    Green 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Independent 3
    Labour 2
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,828
    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    The BBC narrative has been of a big Reform win and a big Labour loss. One could be argue that is broadly correct, but everyone else seems to have simply been alsorans.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,689
    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    I think someone on here this morning made great play of a single LD loss to Reform in Epping and three or four Conservative holds and neglected to mention the eight Conservative losses on Epping Forest DC which have further eroded the previous large Tory majority on that council.

    The Conservatives now have just 19 of the 54 seats compared with the 35 they held in 2022.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    Decent result for Reform in Wales, won't have to worry about the messy business of government there to queer the pitch for Westminster 2028 or 9
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904

    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
    Which means seeking support from Labour
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,600

    Green x3 in Ouseburn (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently (with 2 wards to go):

    Reform 24
    Green 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Independent 3
    Labour 2

    Do you know which 2?
    Sky seem to have stopped updating since halftime.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,612
    I noticed that @JohnO didn't appear to standing. Hope he is ok. Always nice to support the odd opponent and always thought from his posts here he was probably a good councillor.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    dixiedean said:

    Green x3 in Ouseburn (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently (with 2 wards to go):

    Reform 24
    Green 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Independent 3
    Labour 2

    Do you know which 2?
    Sky seem to have stopped updating since halftime.
    Kingston Park and Dinnington (my ward) and another.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,817
    Sinn Fein express pleasure at results in Wales and Scotland.

    https://x.com/moneillsf/status/2052794755713491342

    "I have contacted SNP leader John Swinney and Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth to congratulate them on their enormous mandates. For the first time ever, there could be three pro-independence First Ministers across these islands. More and more people are looking towards a future beyond the constraints of the Union."

    I'll leave others to comment.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,137
    Why is Sir Keir still there?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    edited May 8
    stodge said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    I think someone on here this morning made great play of a single LD loss to Reform in Epping and three or four Conservative holds and neglected to mention the eight Conservative losses on Epping Forest DC which have further eroded the previous large Tory majority on that council.

    The Conservatives now have just 19 of the 54 seats compared with the 35 they held in 2022.
    And the Conservatives will still have most seats on EFDC and hold the council with the LRA who they already have an informal deal with.

    In 2024 the LDs won most votes in all 3 district wards in Epping and Theydon Bois, today the LDs were 3rd in two and the county ward behind both the Tories and Reform and lost Epping East, a ward they have won since 2015, to Reform. Today was a disastrous day for Epping Forest LDs and also Epping Forest Greens who have lost their 1 Buckhurst Hill seat and been wiped out
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
    Which means seeking support from Labour
    No it doesnt

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035

    dixiedean said:

    Green x3 in Ouseburn (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently (with 2 wards to go):

    Reform 24
    Green 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Independent 3
    Labour 2

    Do you know which 2?
    Sky seem to have stopped updating since halftime.
    Kingston Park and Dinnington (my ward) and another.
    There’s actually 3: Wingrove, West Fenham, and KP & D.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    edited May 8
    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Better effort from the Tories in Swindon taking it to NOC from Labour ans now largest party.
    But they fell just short of holding Solihull which goes NoC
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,915
    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    You mean there was a possible mandate for indyref2?!!!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874
    On topic- given how rude Andy "I'm Mr Manchester" Burnham has been about London, a byelection in the smoke isn't going to work.

    So perhaps he would like to STFU and leave the stage open for someone with more than 0% chance of actually being a candidate (preferably an attractive candidate) to be the realistic next PM?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,535
    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    I really do not see a seat he could be certain of winning
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,137
    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
    Which means seeking support from Labour
    No it doesnt

    Yes it does, unless you think Plaid will be seeking support from Reform?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    I really do not see a seat he could be certain of winning
    Well, there's few certainties in politics but I think if he does win a Labour seat after someone has stood down to make way it will because of the Burnham factor and not Labour.

    As several wags have said - maybe he should stand as an indie.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,828

    Why is Sir Keir still there?

    Because he's a self-unaware tw@t.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388

    Why is Sir Keir still there?


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Another Labour MP calls for Starmer to go. It wasn't survivable for him before this. But it's unravelling completely now. Briefing in the week was PLP had to move first. Well, it's moved.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2052786392917254397
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    Because he's terrible. In a Streeting-Starmer faceoff, I suspect that Streeting loses.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,510

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,143
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
    Oh my sweet summer child, have you actually had a look at the results in Salford, Manchester and particularly Wigan 😂😂😂
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,600

    dixiedean said:

    Green x3 in Ouseburn (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    Currently (with 2 wards to go):

    Reform 24
    Green 21
    Lib Dem 19
    Independent 3
    Labour 2

    Do you know which 2?
    Sky seem to have stopped updating since halftime.
    Kingston Park and Dinnington (my ward) and another.
    There’s actually 3: Wingrove, West Fenham, and KP & D.
    So 3 Green certainty, 3 LD probably plus yours (Reform favourite or LD.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    Labour are now second on seats won, Starmer is secure and it is only the left calling for Starmer to go and they back Rayner not Streeting.

    Cabinet ministers now coming out for Starmer to stay including Heidi Alexander who has said a leadership election would be 'vanity'.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,535
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
    Which means seeking support from Labour
    No it doesnt

    Yes it does, unless you think Plaid will be seeking support from Reform?
    Nope. They don't have to support them, they just have to not vote against them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
    Oh my sweet summer child, have you actually had a look at the results in Salford, Manchester and particularly Wigan 😂😂😂
    Better for Labour than most of GB
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,137
    HYUFD said:

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    Labour are now second on seats won, Starmer is secure and it is only the left calling for Starmer to go and they back Rayner not Streeting.

    Cabinet ministers now coming out for Starmer to stay including Heidi Alexander who has said a leadership election would be 'vanity'.

    I don’t know how anyone can spin these results. They’re a disaster.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,828
    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    I don't Ike Burnham but I suspect the nightmare in G. Manchester was a snub to Starmer rather than Burnham.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    edited May 8
    Lib Dem x3 in West Fenham (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    6 seats to go. Currently:

    Reform 24
    Lib Dem 22
    Green 21
    Independent 3
    Labour 2
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
    Which means seeking support from Labour
    No it doesnt

    Yes it does, unless you think Plaid will be seeking support from Reform?
    Nope. They don't have to support them, they just have to not vote against them.
    And to ensure Reform don't vote against them they have to get legislation amenable to Reform if they don't get Labour support
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    It appears as though Mark Reckless won't be representing me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    Labour lose Newcastle, Greens most seats and likely to do a deal with LDs to keep out Reform
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388
    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    BREAKING

    Labour has lost control of Brent, which wasn't even considered to be at risk

    There's been a Green/ Lib Dem surge and Labour has lost 21 seats.

    It's looking very bad for Labour in London
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    And they’re not “meant to be the party of protest”. If I wanted that sort of wilful misreading I’d go to bbc.co.uk
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    And they’re not “meant to be the party of protest”. If I wanted that sort of wilful misreading I’d go to bbc.co.uk
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,535
    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    I disagree. Historically when both major parties are collapsing in the vote the Lib Dems should be picking up many more seats. As I say, they have one real function and that is as the party of protest. Now they have lost that function to not one but two other parties you do have to wonder what the point of the Lib Dems is?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388

    Why is Sir Keir still there?


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Another Labour MP calls for Starmer to go. It wasn't survivable for him before this. But it's unravelling completely now. Briefing in the week was PLP had to move first. Well, it's moved.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2052786392917254397
    Dan Hodges tweeting about the imminent departure of Starmer? Yes its another day ending in a y folks.
    He'll be right in 2028.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    edited May 8

    HYUFD said:

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    I don’t know what Streeting is waiting for. He’s obviously the best challenger that exists.

    Labour are now second on seats won, Starmer is secure and it is only the left calling for Starmer to go and they back Rayner not Streeting.

    Cabinet ministers now coming out for Starmer to stay including Heidi Alexander who has said a leadership election would be 'vanity'.

    I don’t know how anyone can spin these results. They’re a disaster.
    They are bad but not a disaster, a disaster would be the Tories and the Greens and LDs beating Labour on seats won, not just Reform
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    Labour hold Trafford
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,510
    I've been locked out of the Sky elections page :neutral:


  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    edited May 8
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
    Labour lost 24 of the 30 seats they were defending in Manchester. They didn't lose the other 33 because they weren't up for election.

    It would almost certainly be a Green majority with Reform probably in second place if all seats were up for election.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,600
    HYUFD said:

    Labour lose Newcastle, Greens most seats and likely to do a deal with LDs to keep out Reform

    Labour didn't have Newcastle to lose.
    And as Gallowgates updates show Reform currently have most seats.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958

    Why is Sir Keir still there?


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Another Labour MP calls for Starmer to go. It wasn't survivable for him before this. But it's unravelling completely now. Briefing in the week was PLP had to move first. Well, it's moved.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2052786392917254397
    Dan Hodges tweeting about the imminent departure of Starmer? Yes its another day ending in a y folks.
    He'll be right in 2028.
    2027 I suspect.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,736

    Why is Sir Keir still there?

    Because there is no rush. We have no need to act right now, with ducks askew, simply to gratify and titillate a bunch of salivating media hacks and people who wish only ill on the Labour Party. He won't be leading into the next election. Which isn't until 2029.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,809
    rcs1000 said:

    I've been locked out of the Sky elections page :neutral:


    Works OK for me.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,535
    MelonB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    And they’re not “meant to be the party of protest”. If I wanted that sort of wilful misreading I’d go to bbc.co.uk
    Its not wilful misreading. It is the function they have served for decades. They only managed to get into colaition because of it and then they squandered that. As a desitination for a vote they are pointless.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,134
    Labour now pass the 1000 losses mark.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    edited May 8
    So Lab and Con in Wales were both subjected to a Lib Dem 2015 Experience.

    Ouch, especially for Labour.

    On a separate point, I think AB Esq. needs to stay in Manchester.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,510

    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    I disagree. Historically when both major parties are collapsing in the vote the Lib Dems should be picking up many more seats. As I say, they have one real function and that is as the party of protest. Now they have lost that function to not one but two other parties you do have to wonder what the point of the Lib Dems is?
    Look, the clear winners tonight are Reform. They are the party picking up protest votes left, right and center.

    But there was a real threat in these local elections that the Greens would supplant the LDs, certainly on NEV share, and potentially in terms of councillors. That was the existential threat to them.

    And that hasn't happened.

    (Plus, last time a Labour government got unpopular, in the 2006-2010 period, the LDs didn't do that well. It was mostly the Conservatives who benefited.)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,809

    Labour now pass the 1000 losses mark.

    Reform pass 1200 gains...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,867

    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    I disagree. Historically when both major parties are collapsing in the vote the Lib Dems should be picking up many more seats. As I say, they have one real function and that is as the party of protest. Now they have lost that function to not one but two other parties you do have to wonder what the point of the Lib Dems is?
    Running sound local governments, and digging in on the ground.?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    Labour lose Birmingham, Reform largest party in the city now with 17 councillors, Tories second on 16, Labour third on 10 and Greens and LDs tied fourth on 9 with Others on 8 so far
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    Let’s not count our tartan chickens - but it looks that way. Ins’Allah

    To my mind this defers indyref2 for a decade. Because we won’t get one in this Holyrood term and it feels very unlikely that the SNP will somehow go back to a majority in the NEXT Holyrood elections. So that’s no indyref2 for ten years?

    Which, given the chaos everywhere else, is a small but important mercy

    After another ten years, however, who knows. That will be 22 years since the last. A generation
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In Scotland it looks like the SNP will lose seats relative to 2021, so no mandate for indyref2.

    In Wales Labour have collapsed to third but Plaid will need Labour support on bills to get a majority and stop Reform holding up their legislation

    I have told you already Plaid will not want to be associated with labour and will govern as a minority and seek support across the opposition
    Which means seeking support from Labour
    No it doesnt

    Yes it does, unless you think Plaid will be seeking support from Reform?
    You do not read do you

    Plaid will govern as a minority party, even though Reform may support Independence as they have indicated in Scotland !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388
    Rachel Reeves
    @RachelReevesMP
    These are tough election results for Labour and I’m sorry to all of those colleagues who have lost their seats.

    Keir Starmer won a mandate to change our country.

    We must get on with delivering that mandate - and show how politics can improve people’s lives for the better.

    https://x.com/RachelReevesMP/status/2052805448059773197


    Translation into English: I'm as totally out of touch as the Prime Minister and think one more heave and we will see a turn around.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    edited May 8

    MelonB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    And they’re not “meant to be the party of protest”. If I wanted that sort of wilful misreading I’d go to bbc.co.uk
    Its not wilful misreading. It is the function they have served for decades. They only managed to get into colaition because of it and then they squandered that. As a desitination for a vote they are pointless.
    Being a repository for protest votes historically doesn’t make them “supposed to be the party of protest” anymore than it now makes Reform that, or the Greens or PC.

    The Lib Dems are the party of liberal, free trade internationalism with a policy programme that reflects that, just like their counterparts in Europe. You may not like the platform, but that’s what it is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,867
    MattW said:

    So Lab and Con in Wales were both subjected to a Lib Dem 2015 Experience.

    Ouch, especially for Labour.

    On a separate point, I think AB Esq. needs to stay in Manchester.

    I don't think Burnhams "King of the North" schtick works well in London. He needs to run for a seat in the NW or not at all.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    Woo. My ward. Lib Dem x3 in Kingston Park and Dinnington (Newcastle upon Tyne)

    3 seats to go. Currently:

    Lib Dem 25
    Reform 24
    Green 21
    Independent 3
    Labour 2
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,689
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    I think someone on here this morning made great play of a single LD loss to Reform in Epping and three or four Conservative holds and neglected to mention the eight Conservative losses on Epping Forest DC which have further eroded the previous large Tory majority on that council.

    The Conservatives now have just 19 of the 54 seats compared with the 35 they held in 2022.
    And the Conservatives will still have most seats on EFDC and hold the council with the LRA who they already have an informal deal with.

    In 2024 the LDs won most votes in all 3 district wards in Epping and Theydon Bois, today the LDs were 3rd in two and the county ward behind both the Tories and Reform and lost Epping East, a ward they have won since 2015, to Reform. Today was a disastrous day for Epping Forest LDs and also Epping Forest Greens who have lost their 1 Buckhurst Hill seat and been wiped out
    And are you going to tell me losing eight seats was a good result for the Conservatives?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,568
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
    Labour lost 24 of the 30 seats they were defending in Manchester. They didn't lose the other 33 because they weren't up for election.

    It would almost certainly be a Green majority with Reform probably in second place if all seats were up for election.
    Yes, we're still (!) waiting for the Trafford results but across GM as a whole Labour lost about 80% of the seats it was defending. 22 out of 22 in Wigan, 16 out of 17 in Tameside. I will do a full tab once they're all in. They've done astonishingly badly in GM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,904
    Labour hold Camden, Reform gain South Tyneside
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,183
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
    Oh my sweet summer child, have you actually had a look at the results in Salford, Manchester and particularly Wigan 😂😂😂
    I was amazed at @HYUFD comment
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,137
    UNTIL CHRISTMAS?

    This is going to be Brown all over again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388
    HYUFD said:

    Labour lose Birmingham, Reform largest party in the city now with 17 councillors, Tories second on 16, Labour third on 10 and Greens and LDs tied fourth on 9 with Others on 8 so far

    Chaos.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,874

    Rachel Reeves
    @RachelReevesMP
    These are tough election results for Labour and I’m sorry to all of those colleagues who have lost their seats.

    Keir Starmer won a mandate to change our country.

    We must get on with delivering that mandate - and show how politics can improve people’s lives for the better.

    https://x.com/RachelReevesMP/status/2052805448059773197


    Translation into English: I'm as totally out of touch as the Prime Minister and think one more heave and we will see a turn around.

    Alternatively- I've got to say something and this is about the only thing I can say.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,536
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    I assume this the end of the road for Andy Burnham. Burnham's selling point was that he was a winner. The Labour vote collapsing in Manchester doesn't support that idea even if it wasn't his fault.

    Has it? Labour has held Manchester, Wigan and Salford
    They got mullered in all 3 and held on due to election by thirds
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,689
    rcs1000 said:

    MelonB said:

    kjh said:

    Honestly the BBC news. 'LDs mixed results in London, just holding on to Sutton'

    Gain of 20 seats and 50 out of 54 is just holding on?

    It’s the same story every election.
    London has been okay for them but the rest of the country is pretty dire given the collapse in the Labour vote. The Lib Dems have gained only 9% of the seats lost by Labour and only 6% of the combined seats lost by Labour and the Tories. They are supposed to be the party of protest. If they are not that (and it is clear they no longer are) then frankly they are nothing.
    Eh, they've done fine, but not amazingly.

    Ed Davey will be mildly disappointed they will likely end up behind Labour, but they've gained seats and control one more council than they did yesterday, while their NEV is up slightly. And in Scotland they'll have more than doubled their Holyrood count, and will probably end up on 9-10 seats (assuming they win Caithness).
    We've still got the two new Surrey unitary authorities to declare which should close the gap with Labour.
This discussion has been closed.