"I was speaking with Angela... Merkel, that is... and she advised me that what I needed was an iconic hand gesture to use when posing for photographs. This is what I came up with."
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
Boooooooo
Heh
You fully on board with the corrupt crypto grifter now then?
Not at all. I’d really like an alternative to Nigel fucking Farage. But we are where we are. The country desperately needs a hard right government to put the boot into multiple vested interests, they must also barbecue several dozen sacred cows
Well for the first time in my life I voted Conservative. I have to say didn't even feel dirty afterwards. Partly because here in Wales there is too much of a dependency culture and I think there is at least an element in the Tories that wants to move on from Thatcher and save western civilisation.
Even before the general election he seemed to drive people to distraction.
I am always taken aback how much even Labour friends of mine hate him. I don't know if its the voice or his default lawyer-bot mode or what, but he really appears to rub people up the wrong way.
Yes I’ve seen the same although they did at least think he made the right decision on Iran . I think the Reform chasing has been a big issue .
Eg hardly ever seeing him without a union jack in shot. I'd love to see an end to all that with whoever takes over.
He never appears with a Union Jack in shot.
*googles 'Keir Starmer'*
*literal first result is a picture of Keir Starmer with a Union Jack behind him*
Whatever you’re looking at is not a Union Jack. Try again.
What I'm looking at is a tedious pedant
I expect SKS has indeed been pictured with a Union Jack, probably Jack McConnell?
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
Boooooooo
Heh
You fully on board with the corrupt crypto grifter now then?
Not at all. I’d really like an alternative to Nigel fucking Farage. But we are where we are. The country desperately needs a hard right government to put the boot into multiple vested interests, they must also barbecue several dozen sacred cows
Would a hard right government do that, or just invest in its own vested interests? Reform give people the right vibes apparently, which I personally find a little odd when they are busy recruiting every ex-Tory they can get their hands on, but the fundamentals do not allow for the easy answers many would hope for, or they'd be done already.
I feel like Farage actually gets the challenge more than many of his supporters over the years have, hence why he never goes quite as far as many of them would like, and they end up splitting off into forgettable, and indeed forgotten, vanity projects.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
Starmer needs about 100 days to beat the George Hamilton-Gordon in the PM rankings. Looks like a struggle. If he doesn't announce a timetable to go in the next 2 weeks he may make it, but the pressure will be immense, and the Cabinet are leaking like a particularly holey sieve.
I think the idea with announcing a timetable for his departure is that it could buy him some more time.
Let's say he says something like, "I want to stay as PM until summer 2028, to implement our manifesto and blah, blah, and then allow a new leader to set out their vision for a second Labour term," this reassures everyone that he won't try to lead Labour into the next election, it provides time for Burnham to return to the Commons, it moves the focus from forcing Starmer out to the contest to replace him.
Maybe 2028 is a stretch, but 2027 could be possible. Particularly as the impetus to replace him doesn't exactly spring from a determination to implement radically different policies.
Kash Patel has ordered the polygraphing of more than two dozen former and current members of his security detail and other staff and has been described as in panic mode to save his job and find leakers among his team, according to two people briefed on the development.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
Even before the general election he seemed to drive people to distraction.
I am always taken aback how much even Labour friends of mine hate him, and I don't mean oh we are disappointed in Labour government performance (they are disappointed in that), but Starmer as a personality it seems to really set people off. I don't know if its the voice or his default lawyer-bot mode or what, but he really appears to rub people up the wrong way.
Personally I sort of think of him a bit like the way Rishi wasn't cut out for the top job, seems a nice family man, I am sure is very good as upper middle management crunching the spreadsheets, but never a leader and no grand vision or understanding on how to address big issues. I see Starmer a bit like the public sector equivalent. I am sure both in other times under other leaders probably would have been perfectly good at particular jobs e.g. Rishi under Cameron, Starmer under Blair.
Both I think have also been bounced into getting increasingly iffy political stuff to try and save their own skin, that blots their copy book as honest bloke doing their best.
Sunak was not a great election campaigner but he was probably the most competent PM we have had since Cameron, maybe even Blair
Even before the general election he seemed to drive people to distraction.
He's been a disappointment, but the immediacy and severity of the dislike without any honeymoon has been a shock.
One of the weirdnesses of the 2024GE was that in vote share terms Labour did really badly. They only increased their vote share by 1.6pp when the government party was shedding 19.9pp. Meanwhile you had this massive surge of votes for Reform, taking them to 14.3% and third in vote share, and they only returned 5 MPs.
I think this was behind a lot of the anger and hostility towards Starmer after the election. FPTP presenting Labour with nearly two-thirds of the seats on barely one-third of the vote was simply enraging.
There were far more votes to the right of Labour (Lib Dem, Con, Reform) than to the left (Green, SNP, PC, Lefty Indies) at 2024GE. So which way should he tack to attract more votes?
I think his failure to attract more votes was mainly due to not having any sense of purpose. He could have developed a slightly more right-wing sense of purpose, or one to the left, or even a purposeful programme with the same positioning he was aiming for.
He simply needed to be someone else who was better at politics, in terms of policy detail, political vision, and communication ability.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
But of course, it's possible that after Ref/Farage fail, rather than going back to the center Right, people will drift even further to the Hard Right...
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
Boooooooo
Heh
You fully on board with the corrupt crypto grifter now then?
Not at all. I’d really like an alternative to Nigel fucking Farage. But we are where we are. The country desperately needs a hard right government to put the boot into multiple vested interests, they must also barbecue several dozen sacred cows
Would a hard right government do that, or just invest in its own vested interests? Reform give people the right vibes apparently, which I personally find a little odd when they are busy recruiting every ex-Tory they can get their hands on, but the fundamentals do not allow for the easy answers many would hope for, or they'd be done already.
I feel like Farage actually gets the challenge more than many of his supporters over the years have, hence why he never goes quite as far as many of them would like, and they end up splitting off into forgettable, and indeed forgotten, vanity projects.
This is an astute reading. You’re right. Farage comprehends the problems better than 96% of his voters
It’s one reason I’m prepared to give Reform my vote. Sorting immigration and asylum and finding some workable solution to islamism are necessary but far from sufficient
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
The Tories would be doing even worse if they didn’t have Kemi. Can you imagine their level of unpopularity if Jenrick had won the leadership and had stayed in the party?
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
The posher and more educated and wealthier the area the better the Tory vote will hold up against Reform. Kensington and Chelsea is probably back to being the safest Tory borough in the UK which it hasn't been since Brexit
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
The posher and more educated and wealthier the area the better the Tory vote will hold up against Reform. Kensington and Chelsea is probably back to being the safest Tory borough in the UK which it hasn't been since Brexit
If the results go roughly as expected the best line for the Tories would be to say that if these elections had taken place six months ago they would have been better for Reform and worse for themselves. Try to spin a bit of momentum change is probably the best they can make of it.
Why is Starmer so disliked personally? Is he? Well assuming he is I would certainly concur with LP about the undeserving landslide. More trivially, I think people can find a dull but honest leader more appealing than a charismatic but devious one. But dull and devious with it? That's worse.
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Buckinghamshire is more prosperous than Wiltshire. Wiltshire is more prosperous than Cornwall.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
The Tories would be doing even worse if they didn’t have Kemi. Can you imagine their level of unpopularity if Jenrick had won the leadership and had stayed in the party?
There is a graph of Tory Party popularity that shows it going up exponentially when Jenrick leaves
Having checked Buckinghamshire for last year's results I can see that they have a large group called the 'IMPACT Alliance' which is a fun name. Combination of Labour, Green, Independents, and local Independents.
I like when smaller parties combine in a political group, some areas seem to forget they can and there's not much advantage to being so tiny.
(Parties do have rules about this sort of thing, possibly requiring central office to sign off, but if you aren't actually propping up an administration, which is a significant thing for a party to agree to, it shouldn't really matter).
Even before the general election he seemed to drive people to distraction.
I am always taken aback how much even Labour friends of mine hate him, and I don't mean oh we are disappointed in Labour government performance (they are disappointed in that), but Starmer as a personality it seems to really set people off. I don't know if its the voice or his default lawyer-bot mode or what, but he really appears to rub people up the wrong way.
Personally I sort of think of him a bit like the way Rishi wasn't cut out for the top job, seems a nice family man, I am sure is very good as upper middle management crunching the spreadsheets, but never a leader and no grand vision or understanding on how to address big issues. I see Starmer a bit like the public sector equivalent. I am sure both in other times under other leaders probably would have been perfectly good at particular jobs e.g. Rishi under Cameron, Starmer under Blair.
Both I think have also been bounced into getting increasingly iffy political stuff to try and save their own skin, that blots their copy book as honest bloke doing their best.
Character flaws;
1. He's vindictive 2. He lacks compassion 3. He lacks warmth 4. He's indecisive
Dr David Bullshit being ridiculed over Nigel Farage's £5m bung. In the background there are black-shirted Reform activists in Essex, would be scary but look like they be defeated by a short flight of stairs or a slight incline.
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Buckinghamshire is more prosperous than Wiltshire. Wiltshire is more prosperous than Cornwall.
Come to think of it most of the Reform seats in Wiltshire are indeed in less prosperous areas. Not 100% of them, but as a general trend.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Bit of revisionist talk here.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Buckinghamshire is more prosperous than Wiltshire. Wiltshire is more prosperous than Cornwall.
And yet Essex is prosperous, but Reform are sweeping it. And Northumberland, where the Tories held up well against Reform last year, isn't.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Bit of revisionist talk here.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
An effective and competent Tory leader in comparison then as I said.
If the results go roughly as expected the best line for the Tories would be to say that if these elections had taken place six months ago they would have been better for Reform and worse for themselves. Try to spin a bit of momentum change is probably the best they can make of it.
Why is Starmer so disliked personally? Is he? Well assuming he is I would certainly concur with LP about the undeserving landslide. More trivially, I think people can find a dull but honest leader more appealing than a charismatic but devious one. But dull and devious with it? That's worse.
No, he’s dull, devious, venal, hypocritical and treacherous
Hence the overwhelming hatred. Even from my thoroughly Labour friends. They utterly despise him
This is actually good news for Labour as @CorrectHorseBattery often points out. Starmer is so disliked the mere act of dumping him will give them several points in the polls and an emotional boost. And then maybe they can sustain that 🤷🏼♂️
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Bit of revisionist talk here.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
He only seemed competent because of his three predecessors being so terrible.
Iran Made the big calls right Respected on the international stage Coalition of the willing Further and Faster Patriotic Renewal Never crossed my desk Furious that nobody told me
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Bit of revisionist talk here.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
And that's before we talk about his inexplicably catastrophic decision to leave VE Day 80th anniversary commemorations early...
Even before the general election he seemed to drive people to distraction.
He's been a disappointment, but the immediacy and severity of the dislike without any honeymoon has been a shock.
One of the weirdnesses of the 2024GE was that in vote share terms Labour did really badly. They only increased their vote share by 1.6pp when the government party was shedding 19.9pp. Meanwhile you had this massive surge of votes for Reform, taking them to 14.3% and third in vote share, and they only returned 5 MPs.
I think this was behind a lot of the anger and hostility towards Starmer after the election. FPTP presenting Labour with nearly two-thirds of the seats on barely one-third of the vote was simply enraging.
There were far more votes to the right of Labour (Lib Dem, Con, Reform) than to the left (Green, SNP, PC, Lefty Indies) at 2024GE. So which way should he tack to attract more votes?
I think his failure to attract more votes was mainly due to not having any sense of purpose. He could have developed a slightly more right-wing sense of purpose, or one to the left, or even a purposeful programme with the same positioning he was aiming for.
He simply needed to be someone else who was better at politics, in terms of policy detail, political vision, and communication ability.
And appointments... Mandelson, Reeves, replacing Lammy with Cooper
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Buckinghamshire is more prosperous than Wiltshire. Wiltshire is more prosperous than Cornwall.
And yet Essex is prosperous, but Reform are sweeping it. And Northumberland, where the Tories held up well against Reform last year, isn't.
Is Essex prosperous after its residents have paid for housing and transport? Most of Northumberland is prosperous. Think Hexham, Alnwick and Berwick, rather than Blyth and Ashington.
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Buckinghamshire is more prosperous than Wiltshire. Wiltshire is more prosperous than Cornwall.
And yet Essex is prosperous, but Reform are sweeping it. And Northumberland, where the Tories held up well against Reform last year, isn't.
No it isn't for its location. Essex has the lowest average house price and income of the home counties and has a below average percentage of graduates. Essex people are hard working and aspirational but not expecially wealthy beyond say Chigwell and Buckhurst Hill, Theydon Bois and Brentwood and some of the wealthier rural parts in the north of the county.
Northumberland is more expensive than the North East average
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
They start at a level and a few leaders might attract a personal vote. But as it's always been the punters vote for a Party not a leader.
Dr David Bullshit being ridiculed over Nigel Farage's £5m bung. In the background there are black-shirted Reform activists in Essex, would be scary but look like they be defeated by a short flight of stairs or a slight incline.
There have been a few astute comments this evening, and I thought @isam ‘s comment of Reform being “Dubai MAGA” captured something real. It doesn’t surprise me that parts of Essex would go monopoly Reform because Essex is the most Dubai county in Britain as well as the most culturally American. It’s a sort of mashup of New Jersey, Texas and Dubai, with rainfall totals not far off those of the latter (and the country’s best still wines). Dubai MAGA could catch on as a term.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Bit of revisionist talk here.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
Sure. True. But Sunak also seemed honest, intelligent, patriotic and well-meaning. And not criminally greedy (even if that’s just because he’s so stupidly rich)
He’d have been a decent PM in better times. Nowhere near great but basically sound
Starmer comes across as a weird squeaky voiced robotic traitor. I suspect he’d have been hated even in good times
If the results go roughly as expected the best line for the Tories would be to say that if these elections had taken place six months ago they would have been better for Reform and worse for themselves. Try to spin a bit of momentum change is probably the best they can make of it.
Why is Starmer so disliked personally? Is he? Well assuming he is I would certainly concur with LP about the undeserving landslide. More trivially, I think people can find a dull but honest leader more appealing than a charismatic but devious one. But dull and devious with it? That's worse.
No, he’s dull, devious, venal, hypocritical and treacherous
Hence the overwhelming hatred. Even from my thoroughly Labour friends. They utterly despise him
This is actually good news for Labour as @CorrectHorseBattery often points out. Starmer is so disliked the mere act of dumping him will give them several points in the polls and an emotional boost. And then maybe they can sustain that 🤷🏼♂️
The big problem Labour has is major headwinds of still a) lack of talent, b) there is no money, c) there is no growth and none will be magiced up in next 2 years, d) inflation is back and e) Trump causing mayhem across the globe.
Also it takes time to really think through big policy changes and even longer for those to take effect. It is why the first 2 years of your 5 are so important. And Labour have done none of the hard yards.
It'll be interesting to see where the Tory vote does hold up over Reform.
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
Buckinghamshire is more prosperous than Wiltshire. Wiltshire is more prosperous than Cornwall.
And yet Essex is prosperous, but Reform are sweeping it. And Northumberland, where the Tories held up well against Reform last year, isn't.
Is Essex prosperous after its residents have paid for housing and transport? Most of Northumberland is prosperous. Think Hexham, Alnwick and Berwick, rather than Blyth and Ashington.
There are houses worth 500k in Blyth these days and Ashington and Newbiggin are themselves slowly gentrifying.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
They start at a level and a few leaders might attract a personal vote. But as it's always been the punters vote for a Party not a leader.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Look at Thatcher (83/87) Blair (97/01) Cameron (10/15) and Johnson (19)
All were leaders that undoubtedly boosted their parties performance at those elections.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
I think the leader thing can make sense in a lot of situations, but not in total isolation, so if the other context is horrible (rather than not great) that's pretty important. As is that it probably wouldn't have an immediate effect but perhaps be a sign of potentiality.
Rishi Sunak was a long way from being a poor Tory leader by comparison with some of the others. As was William Hague. It didn't really help them.
Bit of revisionist talk here.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
And that's before we talk about his inexplicably catastrophic decision to leave VE Day 80th anniversary commemorations early...
He did on the other hand do a reasonable job of cleaning up his predecessor's mess and did a better job of negotiating with the EU than either May or Johnson did. He was definitely a better PM than Truss and Johnson, and was probably better than May as well.
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
The Tories would be doing even worse if they didn’t have Kemi. Can you imagine their level of unpopularity if Jenrick had won the leadership and had stayed in the party?
Had Jenrick won the leadership Reform may not have overtaken the Tories in 2025, though Kemi has more appeal than Jenrick in London and the home counties
Hearing from a reliable source that the Tories have been utterly routed in Suffolk, Norfolk, and Essex.
Grim as feck.
No one wants to hear from them anymore, and, for some reason, most Tories love Reform even when they are not in it. Some just hide it out of legacy loyalty and to not upset the, maybe 10%, who don't want to merge with Reform.
Tthe Tory Party spokespeople kept saying how popular Kemi is which seems to mean little other than no one notices her enough to dislike her
Sir John Curtis doesn't seem to agree with the PB Golden rule that leadership popularity is everything. As he showed with Zak when he asked what does it matter if his popularity dropped 14 points in a week when the Greens score hasn't shifted?
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
The issue is, the Tories aren't at that level of unpopularity because of Kemi. She is the least of their problems.
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
The Tories would be doing even worse if they didn’t have Kemi. Can you imagine their level of unpopularity if Jenrick had won the leadership and had stayed in the party?
Mikel Arteta has Arsenal 2/7f for the PL and in the CL Final yet, eighteen months into the job he had us with our two worst league finishes in decades (8th twice). People could have legitimately said he was doing a worse job than Unai Emery, and the late Wenger years.
If the results go roughly as expected the best line for the Tories would be to say that if these elections had taken place six months ago they would have been better for Reform and worse for themselves. Try to spin a bit of momentum change is probably the best they can make of it.
Why is Starmer so disliked personally? Is he? Well assuming he is I would certainly concur with LP about the undeserving landslide. More trivially, I think people can find a dull but honest leader more appealing than a charismatic but devious one. But dull and devious with it? That's worse.
No, he’s dull, devious, venal, hypocritical and treacherous
Hence the overwhelming hatred. Even from my thoroughly Labour friends. They utterly despise him
This is actually good news for Labour as @CorrectHorseBattery often points out. Starmer is so disliked the mere act of dumping him will give them several points in the polls and an emotional boost. And then maybe they can sustain that 🤷🏼♂️
The big problem Labour has is major headwinds of still a) lack of talent, b) there is no money, c) there is no growth and none will be magiced up in next 2 years, d) inflation is back and e) Trump causing mayhem across the globe.
Also it takes time to really think through big policy changes and even longer for those to take effect. It is why the first 2 years of your 5 are so important. And Labour have done none of the hard yards.
Indeed. They have to play a bad hand. But Starmer is making a bad hand worse
To be brutally honest I’m not sure any leader can save them. However I am CERTAIN Skyr can’t do it. So they may as well roll the dice
If the results go roughly as expected the best line for the Tories would be to say that if these elections had taken place six months ago they would have been better for Reform and worse for themselves. Try to spin a bit of momentum change is probably the best they can make of it.
Why is Starmer so disliked personally? Is he? Well assuming he is I would certainly concur with LP about the undeserving landslide. More trivially, I think people can find a dull but honest leader more appealing than a charismatic but devious one. But dull and devious with it? That's worse.
No, he’s dull, devious, venal, hypocritical and treacherous
Hence the overwhelming hatred. Even from my thoroughly Labour friends. They utterly despise him
This is actually good news for Labour as @CorrectHorseBattery often points out. Starmer is so disliked the mere act of dumping him will give them several points in the polls and an emotional boost. And then maybe they can sustain that 🤷🏼♂️
The big problem Labour has is major headwinds of still a) lack of talent, b) there is no money, c) there is no growth and none will be magiced up in next 2 years, d) inflation is back and e) Trump causing mayhem across the globe.
Also it takes time to really think through big policy changes and even longer for those to take effect. It is why the first 2 years of your 5 are so important. And Labour have done none of the hard yards.
There's no growth and money, and I don't think most parties care about either because policies that might lead to getting them are likely not popular.
I for one am therefore super optimistic about the future.
Dr David Bullshit being ridiculed over Nigel Farage's £5m bung. In the background there are black-shirted Reform activists in Essex, would be scary but look like they be defeated by a short flight of stairs or a slight incline.
There have been a few astute comments this evening, and I thought @isam ‘s comment of Reform being “Dubai MAGA” captured something real. It doesn’t surprise me that parts of Essex would go monopoly Reform because Essex is the most Dubai county in Britain as well as the most culturally American. It’s a sort of mashup of New Jersey, Texas and Dubai, with rainfall totals not far off those of the latter (and the country’s best still wines). Dubai MAGA could catch on as a term.
Dr David Bullshit being ridiculed over Nigel Farage's £5m bung. In the background there are black-shirted Reform activists in Essex, would be scary but look like they be defeated by a short flight of stairs or a slight incline.
There have been a few astute comments this evening, and I thought @isam ‘s comment of Reform being “Dubai MAGA” captured something real. It doesn’t surprise me that parts of Essex would go monopoly Reform because Essex is the most Dubai county in Britain as well as the most culturally American. It’s a sort of mashup of New Jersey, Texas and Dubai, with rainfall totals not far off those of the latter (and the country’s best still wines). Dubai MAGA could catch on as a term.
Dr David Bullshit being ridiculed over Nigel Farage's £5m bung. In the background there are black-shirted Reform activists in Essex, would be scary but look like they be defeated by a short flight of stairs or a slight incline.
There have been a few astute comments this evening, and I thought @isam ‘s comment of Reform being “Dubai MAGA” captured something real. It doesn’t surprise me that parts of Essex would go monopoly Reform because Essex is the most Dubai county in Britain as well as the most culturally American. It’s a sort of mashup of New Jersey, Texas and Dubai, with rainfall totals not far off those of the latter (and the country’s best still wines). Dubai MAGA could catch on as a term.
I'm not watching any coverage tonight as I cancelled my TV licence, which means I can't watch any live news (and as you all know, I'm a law abiding citizen so even if I could have a sneaky watch of SKY on YouTube, as, who would know? I won't...)
I'm not watching any coverage tonight as I cancelled my TV licence, which means I can't watch any live news (and as you all know, I'm a law abiding citizen so even if I could have a sneaky watch of SKY on YouTube, as, who would know? I won't...)
So I'm relying on PB to keep me updated
Are the likes of Novara Media not doing a live stream?
I do wish the BBC would update the number of councillors elected as soon as they know about them, rather than waiting to do it only when they have all the results in for a particular council.
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
I'm not watching any coverage tonight as I cancelled my TV licence, which means I can't watch any live news (and as you all know, I'm a law abiding citizen so even if I could have a sneaky watch of SKY on YouTube, as, who would know? I won't...)
So I'm relying on PB to keep me updated
Are the likes of Novara Media not doing a live stream?
No idea, but I'm happy enough chilling to some easy listening and reading PB.
I will have to re-instate my licence for the GE though...
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
Kemi Badenoch is the least unpopular Party leader.
Kemi is far more popular with Reform voters than Starmer, Polanski and Davey certainly. However that does not help Tory candidates much as Reform voters still prefer Big Nige to Kemi.
Labour, LD and Green voters though it seems are still not willing to tactically vote for a Kemi led Tories yet in big enough numbers for Tory incumbents to hold off Reform
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
Tories on the board in one of the District Council by elections running today Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
Comments
I feel like Farage actually gets the challenge more than many of his supporters over the years have, hence why he never goes quite as far as many of them would like, and they end up splitting off into forgettable, and indeed forgotten, vanity projects.
Same with Kemi when the Tory kept saying she was the most popular of the leaders. "So what" he said? The Tories are still the least popular they've ever been!
More John Curtis please less homespun nonsense from Big G!
Let's say he says something like, "I want to stay as PM until summer 2028, to implement our manifesto and blah, blah, and then allow a new leader to set out their vision for a second Labour term," this reassures everyone that he won't try to lead Labour into the next election, it provides time for Burnham to return to the Commons, it moves the focus from forcing Starmer out to the contest to replace him.
Maybe 2028 is a stretch, but 2027 could be possible. Particularly as the impetus to replace him doesn't exactly spring from a determination to implement radically different policies.
https://www.spiegel.de/geschichte/nsdap-archiv-finden-sie-heraus-was-ihre-familie-unter-hitler-getan-hat-a-4b37a614-a790-4798-92e2-be6a921da384
The only thing that can probably revive the Tories, at this point, is a REF/Farage government and inevitable failure.
Possible they don't win double figures of councillors between the three of them added together.
He simply needed to be someone else who was better at politics, in terms of policy detail, political vision, and communication ability.
Lets hope not!
We saw that last year in places like Cornwall where Reform got 28 to the Tory 7, whereas in Wiltshire, a similar county, the Tories got 37 to Reform's 10, and in Buckinghamshire the Tories got 48 to Reform only 3!
It’s one reason I’m prepared to give Reform my vote. Sorting immigration and asylum and finding some workable solution to islamism are necessary but far from sufficient
The party to finish second in terms of seats in the local elections
Since 10pm Lib dems have moved from 30% up to currently 47%
Why is Starmer so disliked personally? Is he? Well assuming he is I would certainly concur with LP about the undeserving landslide. More trivially, I think people can find a dull but honest leader more appealing than a charismatic but devious one. But dull and devious with it? That's worse.
So too early to say what will happen elsewhere .
I like when smaller parties combine in a political group, some areas seem to forget they can and there's not much advantage to being so tiny.
(Parties do have rules about this sort of thing, possibly requiring central office to sign off, but if you aren't actually propping up an administration, which is a significant thing for a party to agree to, it shouldn't really matter).
1. He's vindictive
2. He lacks compassion
3. He lacks warmth
4. He's indecisive
In the background there are black-shirted Reform activists in Essex, would be scary but look like they be defeated by a short flight of stairs or a slight incline.
This was a man who couldn't organise to have an umbrella at an outdoor press conference in the pouring rain.
He was a poor prime minister with no strategy, and little obvious ability.
Hence the overwhelming hatred. Even from my thoroughly Labour friends. They utterly despise him
This is actually good news for Labour as @CorrectHorseBattery often points out. Starmer is so disliked the mere act of dumping him will give them several points in the polls and an emotional boost. And then maybe they can sustain that 🤷🏼♂️
Iran
Made the big calls right
Respected on the international stage
Coalition of the willing
Further and Faster
Patriotic Renewal
Never crossed my desk
Furious that nobody told me
Northumberland is more expensive than the North East average
Granted it is easier to see them going past the Tories in seat numbers compared to beating Labour in seat numbers, but these are odd times.
He’d have been a decent PM in better times. Nowhere near great but basically sound
Starmer comes across as a weird squeaky voiced robotic traitor. I suspect he’d have been hated even in good times
Thanks for the southsplaining.
Also it takes time to really think through big policy changes and even longer for those to take effect. It is why the first 2 years of your 5 are so important. And Labour have done none of the hard yards.
All were leaders that undoubtedly boosted their parties performance at those elections.
Every election is differant.
Party activist in Blackburn texts in:
"I'm welling up at my count. Reform after Reform after Reform."
"I'm welling up at my count. Reform after Reform after Reform."
https://x.com/BritainElects/status/2052520018621919594?s=20
Britain Elects bloke is Labour activist if I remember correctly. Is he a councillor as well?
Hutton South (Brentwood) council election result:
REF: 40.7% (+40.7)
CON: 32.4% (-30.4)
LDEM: 12.5% (-9.5)
GRN: 7.7% (+7.7)
LAB: 6.8% (-8.5)
Reform GAIN from Conservative.
To be brutally honest I’m not sure any leader can save them. However I am CERTAIN Skyr can’t do it. So they may as well roll the dice
I for one am therefore super optimistic about the future.
MEDGA
So I'm relying on PB to keep me updated
Little Hadham and The Pelhams (East Hertfordshire) council election result:
CON: 36.5% (-14.8)
REF: 28.0% (+28.0)
GRN: 13.4% (-1.7)
LAB: 12.2% (+3.1)
LDEM: 9.9% (-14.6)
Conservative HOLD.
I will have to re-instate my licence for the GE though...
Labour, LD and Green voters though it seems are still not willing to tactically vote for a Kemi led Tories yet in big enough numbers for Tory incumbents to hold off Reform
BBC
Do they know how ridicilious they sound.
Just saying.