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  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    "He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament"

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    If ever there was a more pointless exercise in "democracy" it was that "a free kick of Bishop Brennan up the arse" election.
    Jesus fucking Christ do you really not understand???

    Winning that EU election terrified the Tories into promising a referendum on EU membership, if they won the subsequent UK general election. The Tories won the UK election. So Cameron had to call the referendum which Farage had forced. Et voila
    Bugger off did it.

    For one thing, it was under Theresa May. You know, the PM who took over AFTER Cameron had resigned because of the Referendum.

    Jesus fucking Christ do you really not understand timelines? Muppet.
    Oh dear
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    edited May 2
    If this quote is accurate it makes the 'equal pay' cases even more bizarre. Presumably a small part of the wider case, but the fundamental position just seems silly on its face.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    One that has jet fuel.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,429
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    A great deal of this is true. It is possible to take issue with whether the forces leading to the 2016 referendum were significantly within the Tory party - remember Major and Maastricht and all that - rather than only Farage, but a lot of what you say is true.

    But the term 'successful' still has difficulties. It seems to me that a sensible view of Farage is that success must involve successfully making the UK much more like the place he ideologically wants it to be. Brexit is necessary for this but not sufficient. For example, Brexit was followed by the Boriswave, a massive opposite to Farage's wishes in migration. Since Brexit the UK has not done brilliantly well. None of that is down to Farage - of course.

    He is clearly the most significant and influential politician of the 21st century so far. The competition has been dire but it's true. For success he has to run things and shape the nation his way. He may do so yet, but I doubt it.

    Also, for success, the vision has to be clear. His current party is riddled with contradictions. For success in his own terms, it seems to me, he must make it to PM, and find a way forward which makes the UK a significantly better place, keep the voters of Clacton, who will be post WWII social democrats to a man, onside, deal with the issues of tax, spend, debt and deficit, and satisfy the buccaneer, libertarian urge without Trump, Putin and Xi being his best friends, make friends with and comprehend three million Muslims in the UK and a few other things.

    That would be success, and the achievement would be truly great. And he will have to do it without my vote.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,763
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    "He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament"

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    If ever there was a more pointless exercise in "democracy" it was that "a free kick of Bishop Brennan up the arse" election.
    Jesus fucking Christ do you really not understand???

    Winning that EU election terrified the Tories into promising a referendum on EU membership, if they won the subsequent UK general election. The Tories won the UK election. So Cameron had to call the referendum which Farage had forced. Et voila
    Bugger off did it.

    For one thing, it was under Theresa May. You know, the PM who took over AFTER Cameron had resigned because of the Referendum.

    Jesus fucking Christ do you really not understand timelines? Muppet.
    Oh dear
    Oh dear indeed:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xg40w4ero

    "Elections watchdog considers looking into £5m gift to Farage"

    "The elections watchdog for England and Wales has said it is considering whether to look into the £5m given to Nigel Farage before the last general election.

    "Reform UK mega donor Christopher Harborne gave the money to Farage in early 2024.

    "In the correspondence, seen by the BBC, the Conservatives suggested that Farage should "have declared the donation to the Electoral Commission at the time as a regulated donee".

    "Reform UK said the money was a gift, and that it was given at a time when the now-Reform leader had not yet committed to standing as an MP.

    "In its response to the Conservative Party, the Commission confirmed "we are aware of this matter and are considering it under our regulatory remit. We will consider all the available relevant information and recommend what, if any, next steps the Commission will take."

    "The watchdog promised to reply to the Conservatives no later than 12 May, which comes after next week's elections in Scotland and Wales, and local elections in many parts of England."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    edited May 2
    MikeL said:

    Maybe Mahmood thought she was just writing her name in one box but signing in the other box.

    The two are clearly written by the same person: it's just the first one is designed to allow someone to actually -you know- read her name.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    edited May 2
    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: The Green Party has complained to The Times over its "antisemitic cartoon depiction" of Zack Polanski with a hooked nose

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2050614172497379711
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited May 2
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    I’ll not rise to the pathetic last sentence but, again, you've written a masterclass in self-contradiction. You spend four paragraphs accusing others of letting emotion cloud judgment, then close by calling someone a "dullard", which is, itself, pure emotion clouding your judgment. The irony is so thick it matches your intelligence

    Now, the substance. You're conflating political disruption with political success, and they aren't the same thing. By your logic, the man who throws a grenade into a crowded room is the most effective person there. Leave has left the UK poorer, less influential, and still bitterly divided, by your logic a wound he opened and then retreated to GB News while others managed the wreckage.

    You note he "let the poshos do the high-minded stuff" while he handled the "grubbier immigration angle." You intend this as tactical praise. Others might call it a deliberate choice to inflame rather than inform.

    Reform leading the polls is also a rather different achievement in a first-past-the-post system, as the 2024 results demonstrated. four million votes, five seats.
    Farage has been genuinely, remarkably effective at acquiring attention and applying pressure. That's real. But a politician who has never held a cabinet position, never passed legislation, and whose greatest legacy remains deeply contested isn't obviously the century's greatest success, he may simply be its greatest agitator.

    Those are meaningfully different things, and distinguishing between them isn't emotional. It's the judgment you're asking others to exercise.

    I may be a dullard but fuck knows what that makes you.
    An awful lot smarter than you?
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    A great deal of this is true. It is possible to take issue with whether the forces leading to the 2016 referendum were significantly within the Tory party - remember Major and Maastricht and all that - rather than only Farage, but a lot of what you say is true.

    But the term 'successful' still has difficulties. It seems to me that a sensible view of Farage is that success must involve successfully making the UK much more like the place he ideologically wants it to be. Brexit is necessary for this but not sufficient. For example, Brexit was followed by the Boriswave, a massive opposite to Farage's wishes in migration. Since Brexit the UK has not done brilliantly well. None of that is down to Farage - of course.

    He is clearly the most significant and influential politician of the 21st century so far. The competition has been dire but it's true. For success he has to run things and shape the nation his way. He may do so yet, but I doubt it.

    Also, for success, the vision has to be clear. His current party is riddled with contradictions. For success in his own terms, it seems to me, he must make it to PM, and find a way forward which makes the UK a significantly better place, keep the voters of Clacton, who will be post WWII social democrats to a man, onside, deal with the issues of tax, spend, debt and deficit, and satisfy the buccaneer, libertarian urge without Trump, Putin and Xi being his best friends, make friends with and comprehend three million Muslims in the UK and a few other things.

    That would be success, and the achievement would be truly great. And he will have to do it without my vote.

    I almost entirely agree, see my comment below. There are two kinds of success in politics. Farage has only proved he is (very) good at the first: winning votes, minds, elections, referendums. The second kind, successful governance, is an entirely open question. We just don't know, we can only guess

    My guess is that he might well be crap at it, but I am far from sure
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,429
    IIRC a few days ago we were discussing pubs/inns called The Chequers. No idea why. But apropos of nothing at all, it occurred to me that in February 1660 Pepys stayed at an inn at Fowlmere which was and miraculously still is called The Chequers.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,860
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    Maybe Mahmood thought she was just writing her name in one box but signing in the other box.

    The two are clearly written by the same person: it's just the first one is designed to allow someone to actually -you know- read her name.
    When you stop and think about it, it's insane how much weight we have traditionally put on signatures as a proof of identity.

    We've all been at school and had to generate a parental signature in an emergency, haven't we?

    As always, the key question is who leaked this and why did they leak this now?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,703
    On Topic

    The PLP really are stupid WS is SKS2 and even closer to Mandelson

    The right wing faction really dont get that a move to Green territory rather than Reform territory is the only chance

    Oh well they are about to get their comeuppance
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,763

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: The Green Party has complained to The Times over its "antisemitic cartoon depiction" of Zack Polanski with a hooked nose

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2050614172497379711

    Oh, the irony :lol:
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,462
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    I’ll not rise to the pathetic last sentence but, again, you've written a masterclass in self-contradiction. You spend four paragraphs accusing others of letting emotion cloud judgment, then close by calling someone a "dullard", which is, itself, pure emotion clouding your judgment. The irony is so thick it matches your intelligence

    Now, the substance. You're conflating political disruption with political success, and they aren't the same thing. By your logic, the man who throws a grenade into a crowded room is the most effective person there. Leave has left the UK poorer, less influential, and still bitterly divided, by your logic a wound he opened and then retreated to GB News while others managed the wreckage.

    You note he "let the poshos do the high-minded stuff" while he handled the "grubbier immigration angle." You intend this as tactical praise. Others might call it a deliberate choice to inflame rather than inform.

    Reform leading the polls is also a rather different achievement in a first-past-the-post system, as the 2024 results demonstrated. four million votes, five seats.
    Farage has been genuinely, remarkably effective at acquiring attention and applying pressure. That's real. But a politician who has never held a cabinet position, never passed legislation, and whose greatest legacy remains deeply contested isn't obviously the century's greatest success, he may simply be its greatest agitator.

    Those are meaningfully different things, and distinguishing between them isn't emotional. It's the judgment you're asking others to exercise.

    I may be a dullard but fuck knows what that makes you.
    An awful lot smarter than you?
    Whatever.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,763
    algarkirk said:

    IIRC a few days ago we were discussing pubs/inns called The Chequers. No idea why. But apropos of nothing at all, it occurred to me that in February 1660 Pepys stayed at an inn at Fowlmere which was and miraculously still is called The Chequers.

    Ilford North has a The Chequers, on Barkingside High Street.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794

    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    Maybe Mahmood thought she was just writing her name in one box but signing in the other box.

    The two are clearly written by the same person: it's just the first one is designed to allow someone to actually -you know- read her name.
    When you stop and think about it, it's insane how much weight we have traditionally put on signatures as a proof of identity.

    We've all been at school and had to generate a parental signature in an emergency, haven't we?

    As always, the key question is who leaked this and why did they leak this now?
    Stes wreeting?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    edited May 2
    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,196

    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    Maybe Mahmood thought she was just writing her name in one box but signing in the other box.

    The two are clearly written by the same person: it's just the first one is designed to allow someone to actually -you know- read her name.
    When you stop and think about it, it's insane how much weight we have traditionally put on signatures as a proof of identity.

    We've all been at school and had to generate a parental signature in an emergency, haven't we?

    As always, the key question is who leaked this and why did they leak this now?
    Well, not that much weight. Any important signature requires a witness, so if necessary you can go to the witness to verify that the named person signed the form.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579

    @MaxPB thanks so much for your post last lauding the new game Pragmata.

    I have really bonded with my 7-year old daughter over that game over the last week.

    Beautiful.

    Glad you enjoyed it! Perfect age for your daughter to watch along too, I'll bet she loved dancing along with Diana 👌
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,837
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    A great deal of this is true. It is possible to take issue with whether the forces leading to the 2016 referendum were significantly within the Tory party - remember Major and Maastricht and all that - rather than only Farage, but a lot of what you say is true.

    But the term 'successful' still has difficulties. It seems to me that a sensible view of Farage is that success must involve successfully making the UK much more like the place he ideologically wants it to be. Brexit is necessary for this but not sufficient. For example, Brexit was followed by the Boriswave, a massive opposite to Farage's wishes in migration. Since Brexit the UK has not done brilliantly well. None of that is down to Farage - of course.

    He is clearly the most significant and influential politician of the 21st century so far. The competition has been dire but it's true. For success he has to run things and shape the nation his way. He may do so yet, but I doubt it.

    Also, for success, the vision has to be clear. His current party is riddled with contradictions. For success in his own terms, it seems to me, he must make it to PM, and find a way forward which makes the UK a significantly better place, keep the voters of Clacton, who will be post WWII social democrats to a man, onside, deal with the issues of tax, spend, debt and deficit, and satisfy the buccaneer, libertarian urge without Trump, Putin and Xi being his best friends, make friends with and comprehend three million Muslims in the UK and a few other things.

    That would be success, and the achievement would be truly great. And he will have to do it without my vote.

    We haven't had a change of government since 1979 where the newly elected party wasn't recovering from the trauma of a very long spell in opposition. Blair, Cameron and Starmer were all primarily focused on the problem of how to stop losing elections rather than how to solve the problems facing the country, and all used variants of the Ming vase strategy.

    Whatever you think of Farage, he wouldn't be coming into power with that mindset, so there's a real opportunity to do something significant.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,703

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: The Green Party has complained to The Times over its "antisemitic cartoon depiction" of Zack Polanski with a hooked nose

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2050614172497379711

    Oh, the irony :lol:
    Vote for the Party with a Jewish leader or you are an Antisemite
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    We like to have fish and chips from the local chippy on Saturday evening.

    The cost has just gone up 10% in a week
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
    Do you know if either / both have Starlink? Qatar now having Starlink on basically all their planes is just revolutionary.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    Talking of Starlink,

    The Starlink Hack That Fooled Russian Forces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCbycrMczo
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    "If you don't know any jewish people, maybe that's the problem."

    Boy George on RTE last night
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
    Do you know if either / both have Starlink? Qatar now having Starlink on basically all their planes is just revolutionary.
    Neither have it currently, although Singapore is adding it.

    Fun fact: the first ever time I had Wi-Fi on a plane was all the way back in about 2006, and was Singapore Airlines
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: The Green Party has complained to The Times over its "antisemitic cartoon depiction" of Zack Polanski with a hooked nose

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2050614172497379711

    Oh, the irony :lol:
    Vote for the Party with a Jewish leader or you are an Antisemite
    First Green leader in the half century of the party's history to appear in a mainstream newspaper cartoon?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
    Do you know if either / both have Starlink? Qatar now having Starlink on basically all their planes is just revolutionary.
    Neither have it currently, although Singapore is adding it.

    Fun fact: the first ever time I had Wi-Fi on a plane was all the way back in about 2006, and was Singapore Airlines
    I hear BA might get functioning Wi-FI in 2036.....
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,229
    edited May 2

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Given the amount of crime committed by Albanians, that's hardly padding it out! The framing that Albanians and Brazilians are less foreign than Jamaicans or Bangladeshis is rather unfortunate.

    (When we were in the EU, did we deport criminals to their home countries after sentencing, or did we just allow them to stay here? And if we did deport them, how long could we keep them out under the FoM rules?)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518

    "If you don't know any jewish people, maybe that's the problem."

    Boy George on RTE last night

    To be fair, Jewish people are not evenly distributed. Perfectly possible to be living in an area with no Jewish people.

    When I mentioned my Jewish ancestry, at a very local* pub in rural Wiltshire, the reaction wasn't negative. It was "that's a new thing".

    *the pubs were either for the "outsiders" or the locals. This one had the best pool table.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
    Comparing numbers deported also requires you to look at the denominator; i.e. how many people are arriving from a country!

    So, saying that the number of Bangladeshis has fallen from 2,300 in a year to under 500 is also influenced by the fact that the number claiming asylum dropped fell 70% to under 1,000 between 2016 and 2021. You can't deport 2,300 per year (or at least not for many years in a row) if less than 1,000 are arriving.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,229

    @PolitlcsUK

    🚨 NEW: The Green Party has complained to The Times over its "antisemitic cartoon depiction" of Zack Polanski with a hooked nose

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2050614172497379711

    Oh, the irony :lol:
    Vote for the Party with a Jewish leader or you are an Antisemite
    First Green leader in the half century of the party's history to appear in a mainstream newspaper cartoon?

    There must have been a couple during the unfortunate "co-leaders" period...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,229
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
    Comparing numbers deported also requires you to look at the denominator; i.e. how many people are arriving from a country!

    So, saying that the number of Bangladeshis has fallen from 2,300 in a year to under 500 is also influenced by the fact that the number claiming asylum dropped fell 70% to under 1,000 between 2016 and 2021. You can't deport 2,300 per year (or at least not for many years in a row) if less than 1,000 are arriving.
    Indeed, and of course there will be a lag, confusing matters more.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    edited May 2
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
    Comparing numbers deported also requires you to look at the denominator; i.e. how many people are arriving from a country!

    So, saying that the number of Bangladeshis has fallen from 2,300 in a year to under 500 is also influenced by the fact that the number claiming asylum dropped fell 70% to under 1,000 between 2016 and 2021. You can't deport 2,300 per year (or at least not for many years in a row) if less than 1,000 are arriving.
    I think you are confusing asylum claims with numbers arriving. Arrivals from the South East Asia are much more likely to be using the fake education then disappear or the arrive for fake / slavery job which isn't actually what is being claimed because they are highly unlikely to get asylum granted.

    Albanians caught on to playing the poorly written modern slavery law for a while.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,946

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Has Polanski put his foot in it again?

    https://x.com/OzKaterji/status/2050553612187619447

    Polanski now retweeting one of the most virulently antisemitic accounts in Ireland, a man who was literally invited to Tehran by the Iranian regime to join a propaganda junket.

    lol

    Three observations:

    1. Polanski is seriously seriously stupid. Just a dumb fucker. This is his education, from Wiki:

    "Polanski studied drama at Aberystwyth University from 2003 to 2006 and attended a drama school in Atlanta, Georgia in the United States."

    DRAMA AT ABERYSTWYTH UNIVERSITY

    Intellectually, he makes Jeremy Corbyn look like Carl Jung. He will make many more of these errors due to his idiocy, and he will self destruct

    Meaning:

    2. The Green implosion will come much sooner than expected as Polanski falls apart; then the Islamists might try to take over earlier than they anticipated

    Meaning:

    3. This could be a shred of hope for Starmer as the Greens sink back

    Amid your usual stream of consciousness drivel, there might actually be some genuine insight buried there. The next GE might very well turn out to be - contrary to all current expectations - a mostly familiar Labour versus Tory contest (with the LDs holding their 75-odd seats on the side), with the question being which of Reform or the Greens has imploded first and the more dramatically. Bet accordingly, DYOR.
    In three years, most likely both.

    With Farage at the helm, Reform just HAS to go tits up in that time.
    When you look at Farage's career, do you see an unsuccessful politician who never wins things and keeps fucking things up? Because Reality would like to have a word

    He's the most successful, capable and consequential British politician since Blair
    I hate to burst this specific bubble but can you remind me how long it took him to win a seat in Parliament and the number of attempts? His vehicle wasn’t even the official Leave campaign. That “win” belongs to Johnson. He’s lost far more than he’s won.
    This is quite alarmingly stupid

    There is a special kind of mediocre brain which is unable to divorce emotional dislike from rational assessment. Any rational assessment of Farage says he is the most succesful politician in the UK in the 21st century. He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament, He did this very deliberately: to pressure the Tories into calling a Brexit vote. This worked. Cameron was obliged to call the vote. Farage showed greater strategic nous, in this instance, than any politician I can think of, in my adult lifetime

    What's more, he was then instrumental in winning that referendum. He let the poshos - Boris and Gove - do the high-minded sovereignty stuff, while he did the grubbier immigration angle they did not want to touch. A clever two pronged attack, which, against all the odds, won that vote. We Brexited. Farage changed world history

    Most politicians might be content with that - but he's come back for more, and he has transformed a whole NEW party. Which has now led the polls in this country for a year or more. Almost unprecedented. He's also an electrifying campaigner. Recall when he announced his takeover of Reform in Clacton, he had the entire media at his beck and call, and he went on to win that seat in Westminster, giving Reforn real momentum such that he now has very senior Tories - ex chancellors, ex Home Secretaries - defecting to his cause

    He might well change British political history for the SECOND time

    Now, none of this means he is a nice man, let alone a good man, you might justifiably see him as utterly malignant and a destructive force. Fair enough. But looking at what he achieved and then claiming he is "unsuccessful" is, as I say, a symptom of a specific kind of effete, struggling intellect which cannot separate emotions from judgment. It is the cognition of a dullard: and that is what you are
    "He is personally responsible for building UKIP to such an extent that they WON a national election, for the EU parliament"

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    If ever there was a more pointless exercise in "democracy" it was that "a free kick of Bishop Brennan up the arse" election.
    Jesus fucking Christ do you really not understand???

    Winning that EU election terrified the Tories into promising a referendum on EU membership, if they won the subsequent UK general election. The Tories won the UK election. So Cameron had to call the referendum which Farage had forced. Et voila
    Bugger off did it.

    For one thing, it was under Theresa May. You know, the PM who took over AFTER Cameron had resigned because of the Referendum.

    Jesus fucking Christ do you really not understand timelines? Muppet.
    Oh dear
    Oh dear indeed:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62xg40w4ero

    "Elections watchdog considers looking into £5m gift to Farage"

    "The elections watchdog for England and Wales has said it is considering whether to look into the £5m given to Nigel Farage before the last general election.

    "Reform UK mega donor Christopher Harborne gave the money to Farage in early 2024.

    "In the correspondence, seen by the BBC, the Conservatives suggested that Farage should "have declared the donation to the Electoral Commission at the time as a regulated donee".

    "Reform UK said the money was a gift, and that it was given at a time when the now-Reform leader had not yet committed to standing as an MP.

    "In its response to the Conservative Party, the Commission confirmed "we are aware of this matter and are considering it under our regulatory remit. We will consider all the available relevant information and recommend what, if any, next steps the Commission will take."

    "The watchdog promised to reply to the Conservatives no later than 12 May, which comes after next week's elections in Scotland and Wales, and local elections in many parts of England."
    That is significant? The Commons committee looking into it is serious, but not about illegality, which was @Taz ’s earlier question. The Electoral Commission will be investigating illegality, although ultimately they can only refer it on to the police/prosecutors who would have to decide.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    carnforth said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Given the amount of crime committed by Albanians, that's hardly padding it out! The framing that Albanians and Brazilians are less foreign than Jamaicans or Bangladeshis is rather unfortunate.

    (When we were in the EU, did we deport criminals to their home countries after sentencing, or did we just allow them to stay here? And if we did import them, how long could we keep them out under the FoM rules?)
    You couldn't get rid of them, because they had a presumption of a right to be in the UK. So even if you put them on a flight to -say- Bratislava, then they could just jump on a Megabus and return.

    Now, at least, we have the ability to turn people away at the border. (And we and the Irish do share a list of people denied entry, so you can't just go via Dublin.)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,837

    "If you don't know any jewish people, maybe that's the problem."

    Boy George on RTE last night

    There's a clip from the interview here:

    https://x.com/RachelMoiselle/status/2050635620859441208
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,518
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
    Comparing numbers deported also requires you to look at the denominator; i.e. how many people are arriving from a country!

    So, saying that the number of Bangladeshis has fallen from 2,300 in a year to under 500 is also influenced by the fact that the number claiming asylum dropped fell 70% to under 1,000 between 2016 and 2021. You can't deport 2,300 per year (or at least not for many years in a row) if less than 1,000 are arriving.
    Sure. It's just that this thing about countries cooperating/not cooperating with removals has been going on since before I was born. Just needs some steady, sensible application of pressure. As has been done many times before.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
    Comparing numbers deported also requires you to look at the denominator; i.e. how many people are arriving from a country!

    So, saying that the number of Bangladeshis has fallen from 2,300 in a year to under 500 is also influenced by the fact that the number claiming asylum dropped fell 70% to under 1,000 between 2016 and 2021. You can't deport 2,300 per year (or at least not for many years in a row) if less than 1,000 are arriving.
    I think you are confusing asylum claims with numbers arriving. Arrivals from the South East Asia are much more likely to be using the education then overstay or the arrive for fake job.
    Ah... so I was taking the line from the report "And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.", and thinking it applied just to asylum seekers.

    Nevertheless, you do still need to look at the denominator. Some times there are more people arriving from a country and sometimes there are less.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    edited May 2
    Joining #BBCLauraK tomorrow,

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander
    Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch
    Reform UK leader Nigel Farage
    Green Party leader Zack Polanski

    And that's a no from me....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Surely in any given year there are going to be countries where removals are up and those where they're down? You can always paint a picture that things are a disaster by pointing solely at those countries where removals are down.
    No this is a trend. The Albanian increase is because of the deal the Tories did, Labour focused on a significant number of Brazilians playing the system with fake Portuguese documents. But there are certain countries the UK is very poor at deporting people to and got worse, basically given up.
    This is because a number of countries see votes in not cooperating with reparations. Their citizens want to come to the UK - some government back that by trying not to cooperate with the deportation system.

    The recourse of cutting off visas (at various levels) quickly concentrates their minds.

    It's a part of the back-and-forth of international relations. Nothing to jump up and down about - a case of applying sensible, firm pressure and things start moving again.
    Comparing numbers deported also requires you to look at the denominator; i.e. how many people are arriving from a country!

    So, saying that the number of Bangladeshis has fallen from 2,300 in a year to under 500 is also influenced by the fact that the number claiming asylum dropped fell 70% to under 1,000 between 2016 and 2021. You can't deport 2,300 per year (or at least not for many years in a row) if less than 1,000 are arriving.
    I think you are confusing asylum claims with numbers arriving. Arrivals from the South East Asia are much more likely to be using the education then overstay or the arrive for fake job.
    Ah... so I was taking the line from the report "And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.", and thinking it applied just to asylum seekers.

    Nevertheless, you do still need to look at the denominator. Some times there are more people arriving from a country and sometimes there are less.
    As an aside, the more I read that sentence the more I dislike it.

    It's not asylum applications from all of these countries, but 'some'. Which ones? What time period? What's the overall shift?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,618
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I don't share @Leon's admiration for Farage as a politician. About the only thing he has ever won was Brexit and the extent to which he played a material part in that is highly contentious. As a Brexiteer myself I found his contributions dishonest and cringeworthy.

    I do agree with his comments today about Polanski. It really says all that needs to be said about UK politics that someone with so little talent or judgment has got so far.

    What I find dismaying is that Reform and the Greens are very likely to come first and second on Thursday in England. In Scotland the SNP will win but the gruesome twosome are likely to come second and third. In Wales Reform seem to be heading for second and the Greens will make good progress.

    Do the majority of our population simply have no common sense? Are we so fed up with the banal incompetence of our mainstream parties that judgment has been completely suspended? This country is at serious risk of becoming both ungovernable and ungoverned.

    He won the fucking European elections in 2014, you stupid berk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom

    "Electorally unsuccessful". lol
    An election to a body that, it turned out, the majority didn't even want to be members of. Where he proceeded to make an arse of himself. Quite an achievement in a completely pointless talking shop.
    Didn't you used to be quite smart?

    The REASON Cameron called the EU Brexit vote was precisely because Farage terrified him into doing it, by winning those European elections in 2014. That was Farage's explicit strategy and ambition - win in Europe to force change in Britain (because it is much harder to break through in Britain due to FPTP, in Europe it is PR so new parties can come through). Farage succeeded handsomely. Without Farage, no Brexit

    Am I talking to a bunch of ten year olds here?
    We are not going to agree on this. Cameron went for the Brexit referendum, against the advice of Osborne, in an attempt to hold the broad centre right coalition that normally dominates UK politics together. It worked for a time and gave him a majority in 2015. It works no longer because Farage has tempted away many of the anti EU supporters who previously voted Tory, splitting the centre right in 2.

    The result was a Labour majority of well over 100 on a small share of the vote. That thinks that majority should be used to bring us back into the EU. What an achievement that is. He is a disrupter who falls out with everyone. He will do it again, very probably before the next GE.
    Farage would, actually, have been better off joining the Tories after Brexit, and seeking the leadership. I recall him saying that he was more popular than Sunak with Tory members. In other words done a Trump-type takeover.

    But he's an opportunist who never, until he got the £5m bung, thought of becoming PM. Good reasons for that.
    We can't be certain even now that in his heart he is prepared to be PM. He has ways out by retiring or losing. I just don't know whether he has the whatever it is that some people have got to be prepared to do what PMs have to do and take all the blame, and in his case disappoint the ludicrous and contradictory expectations of millions of quite dim people, and all the other stuff.

    My firm expectation is that one way or another he won't ever be PM. I would be unhappy in this case to be wrong, but the pain would be substantially ameliorated by the sheer fascination of what will happen next. Dull it would not be.
    I think he will be PM.

    There's a great article by Nate Silver looking at why modern politicians become so unpopular so quickly. In it, he points out that a large part of Donald Trump's coalition was "not Harris". And the problem is that it's very hard to remain popular with the group who voted with you solely because you weren't someone else.

    At the same time, politicians get enormous majorities (which they see as mandates) based on being "not [x]". Trump got it in the US, and Starmer got it in the UK.

    This leads to hubris, which is an unfortunate thing to mix with support that is rather less deep than you think it is.

    Farage will likely be PM in 2028 or 2029.

    He will probably achieve this on 35% of the vote. He will be elected alongside a whole host of characters, many of whom have little experience.

    He may be a Meloni, and grasp the nettle, and be a competent administrator.

    He may also be someone whose flaws -whether laziness, love of alcohol, or inability to work with others- are quickly exposed by time in office.

    If I had to choose the more likely scenario, it would be the second.

    But we shall see.
    Churchill used to have a bottle of champers for breakfast, before starting drinking.

    Not that Farage is a Churchill for our times.
    That's wrong

    Churchill started the day with a small tumbler of scotch, diluted with water. He called it his "mouthwash"

    The champagne came later. Famously, he would have a pint bottle of Pol Roger, at lunch

    Come the evening he began drinking properly
    Wasn't there a story bringing back the pint bottle ?

    A pint of champagne contains pretty well the same as a 350ml bottle of Jinro soju.
    A pretty good amount for a serious buzz without being heavily impaired. I can see how it would work for a high functioning alcoholic.

  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
    Surprisingly, I can recommend Economy in Rwanda Air

    Yes, I know, but they have so few passengers you get a row to yourself, they have bizarrely excellent overnight slots from Heathrow, and their attitude to wine is almost excessively generous

    The only problem is that you need to be going to Kigali, but that's fairly minor
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,229
    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Given the amount of crime committed by Albanians, that's hardly padding it out! The framing that Albanians and Brazilians are less foreign than Jamaicans or Bangladeshis is rather unfortunate.

    (When we were in the EU, did we deport criminals to their home countries after sentencing, or did we just allow them to stay here? And if we did import them, how long could we keep them out under the FoM rules?)
    You couldn't get rid of them, because they had a presumption of a right to be in the UK. So even if you put them on a flight to -say- Bratislava, then they could just jump on a Megabus and return.

    Now, at least, we have the ability to turn people away at the border. (And we and the Irish do share a list of people denied entry, so you can't just go via Dublin.)
    Report to Guardian HQ for (partial) re-education:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/mar/29/eu-dangerous-criminals-allowed-free-entry-uk-vote-leave-claims

    I suspect the gulf between theory and pratice here was huge. Of course, if we had been in Schenghen, it would have been truly impossible.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    I don't share @Leon's admiration for Farage as a politician. About the only thing he has ever won was Brexit and the extent to which he played a material part in that is highly contentious. As a Brexiteer myself I found his contributions dishonest and cringeworthy.

    I do agree with his comments today about Polanski. It really says all that needs to be said about UK politics that someone with so little talent or judgment has got so far.

    What I find dismaying is that Reform and the Greens are very likely to come first and second on Thursday in England. In Scotland the SNP will win but the gruesome twosome are likely to come second and third. In Wales Reform seem to be heading for second and the Greens will make good progress.

    Do the majority of our population simply have no common sense? Are we so fed up with the banal incompetence of our mainstream parties that judgment has been completely suspended? This country is at serious risk of becoming both ungovernable and ungoverned.

    He won the fucking European elections in 2014, you stupid berk

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom

    "Electorally unsuccessful". lol
    An election to a body that, it turned out, the majority didn't even want to be members of. Where he proceeded to make an arse of himself. Quite an achievement in a completely pointless talking shop.
    Didn't you used to be quite smart?

    The REASON Cameron called the EU Brexit vote was precisely because Farage terrified him into doing it, by winning those European elections in 2014. That was Farage's explicit strategy and ambition - win in Europe to force change in Britain (because it is much harder to break through in Britain due to FPTP, in Europe it is PR so new parties can come through). Farage succeeded handsomely. Without Farage, no Brexit

    Am I talking to a bunch of ten year olds here?
    We are not going to agree on this. Cameron went for the Brexit referendum, against the advice of Osborne, in an attempt to hold the broad centre right coalition that normally dominates UK politics together. It worked for a time and gave him a majority in 2015. It works no longer because Farage has tempted away many of the anti EU supporters who previously voted Tory, splitting the centre right in 2.

    The result was a Labour majority of well over 100 on a small share of the vote. That thinks that majority should be used to bring us back into the EU. What an achievement that is. He is a disrupter who falls out with everyone. He will do it again, very probably before the next GE.
    Farage would, actually, have been better off joining the Tories after Brexit, and seeking the leadership. I recall him saying that he was more popular than Sunak with Tory members. In other words done a Trump-type takeover.

    But he's an opportunist who never, until he got the £5m bung, thought of becoming PM. Good reasons for that.
    We can't be certain even now that in his heart he is prepared to be PM. He has ways out by retiring or losing. I just don't know whether he has the whatever it is that some people have got to be prepared to do what PMs have to do and take all the blame, and in his case disappoint the ludicrous and contradictory expectations of millions of quite dim people, and all the other stuff.

    My firm expectation is that one way or another he won't ever be PM. I would be unhappy in this case to be wrong, but the pain would be substantially ameliorated by the sheer fascination of what will happen next. Dull it would not be.
    I think he will be PM.

    There's a great article by Nate Silver looking at why modern politicians become so unpopular so quickly. In it, he points out that a large part of Donald Trump's coalition was "not Harris". And the problem is that it's very hard to remain popular with the group who voted with you solely because you weren't someone else.

    At the same time, politicians get enormous majorities (which they see as mandates) based on being "not [x]". Trump got it in the US, and Starmer got it in the UK.

    This leads to hubris, which is an unfortunate thing to mix with support that is rather less deep than you think it is.

    Farage will likely be PM in 2028 or 2029.

    He will probably achieve this on 35% of the vote. He will be elected alongside a whole host of characters, many of whom have little experience.

    He may be a Meloni, and grasp the nettle, and be a competent administrator.

    He may also be someone whose flaws -whether laziness, love of alcohol, or inability to work with others- are quickly exposed by time in office.

    If I had to choose the more likely scenario, it would be the second.

    But we shall see.
    Churchill used to have a bottle of champers for breakfast, before starting drinking.

    Not that Farage is a Churchill for our times.
    That's wrong

    Churchill started the day with a small tumbler of scotch, diluted with water. He called it his "mouthwash"

    The champagne came later. Famously, he would have a pint bottle of Pol Roger, at lunch

    Come the evening he began drinking properly
    Wasn't there a story bringing back the pint bottle ?

    A pint of champagne contains pretty well the same as a 350ml bottle of Jinro soju.
    A pretty good amount for a serious buzz without being heavily impaired. I can see how it would work for a high functioning alcoholic.

    Yes. Speaking as a high functioning alcoholic, a pint of champagne is kinda perfect. Over lunch
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Given the amount of crime committed by Albanians, that's hardly padding it out! The framing that Albanians and Brazilians are less foreign than Jamaicans or Bangladeshis is rather unfortunate.

    (When we were in the EU, did we deport criminals to their home countries after sentencing, or did we just allow them to stay here? And if we did import them, how long could we keep them out under the FoM rules?)
    You couldn't get rid of them, because they had a presumption of a right to be in the UK. So even if you put them on a flight to -say- Bratislava, then they could just jump on a Megabus and return.

    Now, at least, we have the ability to turn people away at the border. (And we and the Irish do share a list of people denied entry, so you can't just go via Dublin.)
    Report to Guardian HQ for (partial) re-education:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/mar/29/eu-dangerous-criminals-allowed-free-entry-uk-vote-leave-claims

    I suspect the gulf between theory and pratice here was huge. Of course, if we had been in Schenghen, it would have been truly impossible.
    I'm wrong.

    Thank you.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,946
    carnforth said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Given the amount of crime committed by Albanians, that's hardly padding it out! The framing that Albanians and Brazilians are less foreign than Jamaicans or Bangladeshis is rather unfortunate.

    (When we were in the EU, did we deport criminals to their home countries after sentencing, or did we just allow them to stay here? And if we did deport them, how long could we keep them out under the FoM rules?)
    Yes, when we were in the EU, we deported EU citizen criminals to their home countries. https://unlock.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/misc/EU-nationals-settled-status-and-criminal-records-Sept-2019.pdf says 18050 we’re so deported in 2014-9. Indeed, they were the majority of foreign national offenders deported.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
    Surprisingly, I can recommend Economy in Rwanda Air

    Yes, I know, but they have so few passengers you get a row to yourself, they have bizarrely excellent overnight slots from Heathrow, and their attitude to wine is almost excessively generous

    The only problem is that you need to be going to Kigali, but that's fairly minor
    How far the likes of BA have fallen is shocking when you actually experience some decent service. Even Juneyao Air, a minor airline in China was vastly superior to BA's offering.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,128
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Talking about airlines / flights. Recommednations for airline to go Singapore to Sydney?

    Singapore Airlines and Qantas are both excellent.
    Cheers. I was thinking Singapore. I don't think I have ever flown Qantas. And definitely not f##king BA....anybody but BA...
    First Class Singapore Airlines in the A380 is really something; probably the best experience I've had on a plane.

    If you're traveling in more regular levels of comfort, then if you have status on One World, then I'd probably go with Qantas. Their lounges are *really* good.
    Do you know if either / both have Starlink? Qatar now having Starlink on basically all their planes is just revolutionary.
    Neither have it currently, although Singapore is adding it.

    Fun fact: the first ever time I had Wi-Fi on a plane was all the way back in about 2006, and was Singapore Airlines
    Another fun fact about Singapore Airlines. They ran a series of commercials with the headline and jingle "Singapore Girls" and Campaign in their weekly critique of Ads wrote the line not much appreciated but of its time "It's not the Singapore Girls we're worried about. It's the Singapore bloke whose flying the plane"

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=famous+singapore+girls+advert#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:7e562e21,vid:OMiKrvv9xVQ,st:0
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,936

    Talking of Starlink,

    The Starlink Hack That Fooled Russian Forces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCbycrMczo

    Kielty wasn’t hosting his Radio 5 show this morning

    I don’t know whether that was a planned change
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,946
    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    The number of people being removed to countries accused of gaming the UK immigration system has plummeted, the Express can reveal*.

    Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood is under growing pressure to impose visa bans on countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Jamaica as returns to these countries dropped by as much as 88%.

    And it comes as the number of people claiming asylum from some of these countries surged by a staggering 373%.

    The number of removals to Pakistan fell from 5,198 in 2015 to 1,237 last year. This is the biggest drop of any country worldwide.

    Returns to Bangladesh fell from 2,302 in 2015 to 312, removals to Jamaica plummeted from 524 to just 63 over the same decade and the number of people being booted out to Sri Lanka dropped from 1,162 to 277.

    Critics have accused Labour of “padding out” their removal numbers with Albanians, Brazilians and the EU.

    https://x.com/Express_Knowles/status/2050611359415513108?s=20

    * they are doing a lot of heavy lifting given these figures are publicly available. Even removing 5000 here, 2000 there, is just a drop in the bucket.

    Given the amount of crime committed by Albanians, that's hardly padding it out! The framing that Albanians and Brazilians are less foreign than Jamaicans or Bangladeshis is rather unfortunate.

    (When we were in the EU, did we deport criminals to their home countries after sentencing, or did we just allow them to stay here? And if we did import them, how long could we keep them out under the FoM rules?)
    You couldn't get rid of them, because they had a presumption of a right to be in the UK. So even if you put them on a flight to -say- Bratislava, then they could just jump on a Megabus and return.

    Now, at least, we have the ability to turn people away at the border. (And we and the Irish do share a list of people denied entry, so you can't just go via Dublin.)
    FoM was never absolute. EU countries can block individuals with criminal records from another EU country entering, although it’s got to be more than a minor spent conviction.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955

    Talking of Starlink,

    The Starlink Hack That Fooled Russian Forces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCbycrMczo

    Kielty wasn’t hosting his Radio 5 show this morning

    I don’t know whether that was a planned change
    I presume that you have incorrectly quoted me rather than suggesting Ukranian special forces have droned him.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,130
    Good evening

    I know its the telegraph but it could be important

    NEC will longer prevent Burnham standing for parliamrnt
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,955
    The lastest video from Daily Mail journalist on front line with drone operators has dropped. Is fascinating how in a year modern warfare has totally changed again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXR_uGjxH-U
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    NEW THREAD

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,936

    Talking of Starlink,

    The Starlink Hack That Fooled Russian Forces
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCbycrMczo

    Kielty wasn’t hosting his Radio 5 show this morning

    I don’t know whether that was a planned change
    I presume that you have incorrectly quoted me rather than suggesting Ukranian special forces have droned him.
    Sorry,I meant to reply to whoever mentioned Boy George on RTE; he was on Kielty’s show
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,953

    Joining #BBCLauraK tomorrow,

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander
    Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch
    Reform UK leader Nigel Farage
    Green Party leader Zack Polanski

    And that's a no from me....

    Presumably they sent SKS a invite, but it never crossed his desk...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,763

    DougSeal said:

    https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html

    Interesting - because legal judgements are using this in the U.K…

    Not that I’m aware of at a CoA level or above anyway. Can you give me a citation, genuinely interested to read the case report, or just the name and I’ll find it

    https://www.scottishsentencingcouncil.org.uk/news-and-media/news/research-indicates-the-brain-does-not-fully-mature-until-you-are-at-least-25/

    Is what I’ve seen so far…
    Which fed into guidelines for sentencing 18-25

    https://news.sky.com/story/sean-hogg-and-the-guidelines-for-sentencing-under-25s-in-scotland-12868279
    Adults are adults and should have the rights and responsibilities thereof. As a society we are too keen to adultise children and infantilise adults.
This discussion has been closed.