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What is Ed Miliband up to? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,189
edited April 21 in General
What is Ed Miliband up to? – politicalbetting.com

BREAKING: Ed Miliband tells Sky’s @SophyRidgeSky that when he saw Mandelson had been appointed as U.S Ambassador “I was worried”. Says he told David Lammy and that “I think he was worried too” pic.twitter.com/RLM8Dnz5iD

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Comments

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Hodges described it as uncircling the wagons on X
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Maybe SKS has told them hes off so they are free to speak frankly?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,638
    Ed M is looking a little older.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,023
    Ed Miliband is right, given Mandelson's past there would have been concerns about his appointment. Nonetheless by this announcement he also clearly places himself on the left of the party with Burnham and Rayner as a potential rival to Starmer
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,887
    Ed M is impressively ambitious to still want to be PM 10+ years after previously not getting it.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188
    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587
    MattW said:

    Ed M is looking a little older.

    He was elected leader 16 years ago. He's 56 years old. It would be surprising if he didn't.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,343
    Didn't someone here suggest he's the next Labour leader / PM at ridiculous odds?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,265
    Ed Miliband next PM market ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,509
    Ed's contribution to Downhill Skyr's survival could perhaps be classified as "net zero"...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Olly R up in under an hour. Early popcorn
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,073
    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    Nobel/Fifa Prize for Protecting The Planet?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,752
    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,509
    kle4 said:

    Ed M is impressively ambitious to still want to be PM 10+ years after previously not getting it.

    But not by convincing the UK population of his merits...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,638
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Ed M is looking a little older.

    He was elected leader 16 years ago. He's 56 years old. It would be surprising if he didn't.
    To me he looks a little older since entering Government.

    But then most of them do.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,509
    edited April 21
    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    But not before the US has sold as much oil as it can whilst the Straits of Hormuz are blockaded.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,982
    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    May? the only plausible response to the current crisis is to reduce demand for fossil fuels as quickly as possible which means going even faster towards net zero
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,364
    Ed is saying what everyone thinks. We're in this mess - the overturned vetting and the lies - because Number 10 fixated on appointing Mandelson to Washington.

    I was as much interested in those questions asked yesterday - why on earth did you appoint him? And Keith's non-answer "it was an error of judgement"

    Yes - so what was the judgement that was in error? As "Dame" Diane Abbott said, everyone knew all about him. And yet he was the JFDI appointment.

    Difficult for Keith to avoid that one, which I think is why Ed is calling it out. Its the error of judgement which started the entire debacle and I suspect it will be that - and not a narrow textural analysis of who did what with the vetting - which will sink him in the party. He is a walking calamity, with pretty much every call he makes wrong.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Ed M is looking a little older.

    He was elected leader 16 years ago. He's 56 years old. It would be surprising if he didn't.
    To me he looks a little older since entering Government.

    But then most of them do.
    He entered government in 2007. Do you mean 're-entering?'
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188
    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    Are you dying to get back down t'pit with luckyguy?
    He'll be judged on his results after 4-5 years, if he's accelerated the green transition, electrification and decoupled electricity tariffs from the gas spot price then he'll have done a good job. Someone else may get to take the credit for it, but it will be down to him.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,982
    David Lammy was the foreign Secretary at the time - you would have thought he would have had some say in the appointment of the ambassador to the USA when it was a political not career appointment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587
    edited April 21
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    May? the only plausible response to the current crisis is to reduce demand for fossil fuels as quickly as possible which means going even faster towards net zero
    If we had middle aged rather than superannuated nuclear reactors, tidal barrages and solar on every rooftop right now, we could tell the mad religious fundies who pretend to give a shit about their people where to stuff their oil.

    And we could say that to the Iranians and the Saudis too.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,382
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    May? the only plausible response to the current crisis is to reduce demand for fossil fuels as quickly as possible which means going even faster towards net zero
    Sometimes implausible things happen. The response by most European governments with more than two shillings to rub together has been to support demand for fossil fuels by throwing money away cutting fuel taxes.

    If the inevitable recession then leads to these same governments cutting investment spending on the renewables transition...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,752
    edited April 21
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,487
    Meanwhile, Freedman's analysis and predictions for the London local elections, done in conjunction with London Centric, is in.

    The only piece of potential good news he can see for Labour is that they *just* might come through the middle and win the Croydon mayoralty, given the abject state of the council and the split between the Tories and Reform. The Council itself staying NOC.

    He thinks the Tories will lose Bromley to NOC, but Reform has decent chances of control in Barking, Bexley and Havering, the water muddied in the latter by the myriad independents that more likely will deliver an NOC.

    He thinks the Greens will win a decent seat haul, but only have a shot at control of Hackney, and push Labour to lose Waltham Forest to NOC.

    He predicts the LibDems are secure in their three SW councils and will also push Labour to lose Merton to NOC. The Tories to hold Kensington, and regain Westminster and Wandsworth, with Hammersmith staying Labour.

    He suggests the Tories will retain Harrow, gain Barnet from Labour, and push Enfield to NOC, but that Labour will do better in West London and probably hold Ealing and Hounslow with the Greens depriving Labour of a majority in Brent. Hillingdon he predicts the Tories will lose seats to Reform and control to NOC.

    In north London he suggests all of Islington, Camden and Haringey will be lost by Labour to NOC, with a mix of Green and some LibDem gains. Further east, Tower Hamlets to be held by Aspire, Newham lost to the Indys and Redbridge to NOC. South of the river, he sees Labour holding Greenwich, the Greens taking Lewisham, and Lambeth and Southwark going to NOC with both Green and LD seat gains.

    Altogether that would make for only four London Boroughs remaining Labour - an appalling result for them - with the Tories on five, the LibDems on three, the Greens on two, Reform on two, one Aspire and one NIP, with all the rest - fourteen if I count correctly - being balanced councils.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,265

    Ed is saying what everyone thinks. We're in this mess - the overturned vetting and the lies - because Number 10 fixated on appointing Mandelson to Washington.

    I was as much interested in those questions asked yesterday - why on earth did you appoint him? And Keith's non-answer "it was an error of judgement"

    Yes - so what was the judgement that was in error? As "Dame" Diane Abbott said, everyone knew all about him. And yet he was the JFDI appointment.

    Difficult for Keith to avoid that one, which I think is why Ed is calling it out. Its the error of judgement which started the entire debacle and I suspect it will be that - and not a narrow textural analysis of who did what with the vetting - which will sink him in the party. He is a walking calamity, with pretty much every call he makes wrong.

    You may find this surprising but labour could do worse then let Miliband takeover

    Labour need to move on
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    So basically, he went through an entirely logical process of not trying to lose, and people realised he was the better choice?

    If David Miliband was fool enough to not challenge Brown when he could have been PM, that's his lookout. As everyone's least favourite ex-Ambassador to the US commented to Rawnsley, David didn't have the lead in his pencil.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,698
    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,487
    On topic, the most striking thing about yesterday's debate is how many ordinary Labour MPs were willing to pop up and take a critical position in front of their leader (and the opposition sitting opposite), extending beyond the predictable usual suspects like Abbot and McDonnell. Given Starmer's heretofore ruthless grip on internal party politics, this was visible evidence that power is starting to slip away from him.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,346
    We’ll know this is on if there is more chatter about Starmer wanting to join in with Netanyahu and Trump in Iran.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,978
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Am I the only person who still thinks Ed Miliband was a better choice than David would have been? He's cleverer and has an active imagination. He's also a better speaker. He even came up with ideas that the Tories nicked for good or for ill (fuel price cap).

    David was very good at the admin side of government but he never came across as a leader.
    Ed was and is a disaster. The media hate him, and if the media hate a politician the politician is wasting their time.

    I am fast coming to the conclusion that because the media only like right wingers the nation is only governable by right wing governments. That is a shame, but it is what it is.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,364

    Ed is saying what everyone thinks. We're in this mess - the overturned vetting and the lies - because Number 10 fixated on appointing Mandelson to Washington.

    I was as much interested in those questions asked yesterday - why on earth did you appoint him? And Keith's non-answer "it was an error of judgement"

    Yes - so what was the judgement that was in error? As "Dame" Diane Abbott said, everyone knew all about him. And yet he was the JFDI appointment.

    Difficult for Keith to avoid that one, which I think is why Ed is calling it out. Its the error of judgement which started the entire debacle and I suspect it will be that - and not a narrow textural analysis of who did what with the vetting - which will sink him in the party. He is a walking calamity, with pretty much every call he makes wrong.

    You may find this surprising but labour could do worse then let Miliband takeover

    Labour need to move on
    I was always an Ed fan.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,976

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    Symptomatic of our wider problem in public life.

    The main, maybe only, way to get to the top is by being a ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of work. And whilst a seasoning of such people is useful in government, politics and elsewhere, you don't want everyone at the top to be like that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,265
    10 year gilts at 5.094 at 8.37
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,600

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    I don't have siblings, but even if the version of events was simply what Foxy sets out it strikes me as pretty shitty behaviour. "My brother os going for a job - it looks like he is probably going to get it - he really wants it - I think I will apply." I'd be disappointed if one of my daughters put another one in that position. I'd be interested to know the views of others with siblings about whether they consider it reasonable.
    Obviously if events are as TSE describes this makes it considerably shittier. But even without that interpretation it doesn't strike me as normal fraternal behaviour.
    FWIW my politically non-aligned wife - who does have siblings - absolutely cannot stand Ed Miliband purely as a result of this. Of all the weird things that politicians have done over the last 25 years which normal people simply wouldn't, this is the one which, for her, sticks out as marking them out as a different species with different standards of behaviour: her vote in the 2015 GE was solely motivated by her desire not to let such a weird man become PM.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,073

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,967
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    Ed M did not stab his brother in the back! Both went for a position and he won (under the terms of the contest).

    We're not medieval nobles. It was ruthless but not betrayal.
    AfaIcs he stabbed his brother in the front.
    (hyperbolic metaphors involving violence should be discouraged)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,364

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,978

    10 year gilts at 5.094 at 8.37

    Why might that be?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,265
    geoffw said:

    Robbins will play a straight bat and not lay into Starmer.
    Starmer will limp on and become more the object of ridicule and mirth than he currently is.
    Labour MPs will cast around looking for jobs outside parliament.

    He doen't need to lay into Starmer

    His evidence may well compromise Starmer anyway
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,265
    edited April 21

    10 year gilts at 5.094 at 8.37

    Why might that be?
    Concern over Iran and US lack of peace talks ?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,034

    10 year gilts at 5.094 at 8.37

    Well, those are definitely numbers.
    For context, 10 year gilt yields at 5.1% are the highest they've been for well over 15 years.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,382

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    I'm assuming the cost savings over diesel for a delivery van that you can drive all day and then charge overnight on night rate electricity must be quite substantial.

    How much battery capacity is manufactured annually in Britain now?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,509
    Trump's Labor Secretary has been "resigned". Lori Chavez-Deremer has been the subject of some fantastic "office gossip"...as have her husband and, er, father:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3oIbypHFHc
  • eekeek Posts: 33,982

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    Symptomatic of our wider problem in public life.

    The main, maybe only, way to get to the top is by being a ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of work. And whilst a seasoning of such people is useful in government, politics and elsewhere, you don't want everyone at the top to be like that.
    Problem is - given social media the only people going into politics are ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of works...

    No one else would have the ability to cope...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,887
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    I don't have siblings, but even if the version of events was simply what Foxy sets out it strikes me as pretty shitty behaviour. "My brother os going for a job - it looks like he is probably going to get it - he really wants it - I think I will apply." I'd be disappointed if one of my daughters put another one in that position. I'd be interested to know the views of others with siblings about whether they consider it reasonable.
    Obviously if events are as TSE describes this makes it considerably shittier. But even without that interpretation it doesn't strike me as normal fraternal behaviour.
    FWIW my politically non-aligned wife - who does have siblings - absolutely cannot stand Ed Miliband purely as a result of this. Of all the weird things that politicians have done over the last 25 years which normal people simply wouldn't, this is the one which, for her, sticks out as marking them out as a different species with different standards of behaviour: her vote in the 2015 GE was solely motivated by her desire not to let such a weird man become PM.
    Why didn't David step aside for Ed?

    Ed M has been at the top of the party for decades, he obviously had more drive and stamina for the job.

    He'd not be good, but whilst i'd be upset if i was up against my brother it was just as much his turn.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,698

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
    The long range haulage industry runs on diesel (99.99%) - it’s the last stretch which is electrifying now.

    We’ve already got food inflation and the building industry is getting a massive jump in prices for materials. Happening right now.

    Expect a massive jump in the price/demand for electric cars, as every diesel driver tries to switch. But the jump in prices for small electric vans will be epic.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
    Ship to Santander?
    Santander bars and restaurants are good and very good value compared to San Sebastian, it also has lovely swimming beaches inside the inlet and surfing on the ocean beaches.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,978

    Ed is saying what everyone thinks. We're in this mess - the overturned vetting and the lies - because Number 10 fixated on appointing Mandelson to Washington.

    I was as much interested in those questions asked yesterday - why on earth did you appoint him? And Keith's non-answer "it was an error of judgement"

    Yes - so what was the judgement that was in error? As "Dame" Diane Abbott said, everyone knew all about him. And yet he was the JFDI appointment.

    Difficult for Keith to avoid that one, which I think is why Ed is calling it out. Its the error of judgement which started the entire debacle and I suspect it will be that - and not a narrow textural analysis of who did what with the vetting - which will sink him in the party. He is a walking calamity, with pretty much every call he makes wrong.

    You may find this surprising but labour could do worse then let Miliband takeover

    Labour need to move on
    Not with Milliband they don't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,887
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    Symptomatic of our wider problem in public life.

    The main, maybe only, way to get to the top is by being a ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of work. And whilst a seasoning of such people is useful in government, politics and elsewhere, you don't want everyone at the top to be like that.
    Problem is - given social media the only people going into politics are ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of works...

    No one else would have the ability to cope...
    Social media and shorter careers means less time for them to develop other necessary skills like party management and relationships. Keir, Rishi and Truss were all very inexperienced in historical terms.

    Counter - May and Brown were not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587

    Trump's Labor Secretary has been "resigned". Lori Chavez-Deremer has been the subject of some fantastic "office gossip"...as have her husband and, er, father:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3oIbypHFHc

    Interesting to note who it was brought her down. The New York Post, the hyperloyal Trump rag sheet.

    Is his coalition in the media cracking?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,698

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    I'm assuming the cost savings over diesel for a delivery van that you can drive all day and then charge overnight on night rate electricity must be quite substantial.

    How much battery capacity is manufactured annually in Britain now?
    Enough for about 15k cars a year.

    Yes.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,368
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    That is a fair point. As there doesn't seem any evidence that he assured his brother he wouldn't run, he stabbed him in the front not the back.

    There's another serious point here about democracy. It's common that we get a new Prime Minister between elections, without a direct democratic mandate, e.g. Gordon Brown, TM, BJ, LT, RS, etc. Fair enough, we are a Parliamentary democracy.

    But none of those other PMs had previously stood for PM and been implicitly but unambiguously rejected by the voters, as EdM would have been, albeit more than a decade before.

    I would say that he'd start his Premiership, if it ever happens, with not so much a weak or non-existent mandate as a significantly negative one.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,492

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Am I the only person who still thinks Ed Miliband was a better choice than David would have been? He's cleverer and has an active imagination. He's also a better speaker. He even came up with ideas that the Tories nicked for good or for ill (fuel price cap).

    David was very good at the admin side of government but he never came across as a leader.
    Ed was and is a disaster. The media hate him, and if the media hate a politician the politician is wasting their time.

    I am fast coming to the conclusion that because the media only like right wingers the nation is only governable by right wing governments. That is a shame, but it is what it is.
    ISTR Thomas Sowell saying that reality is rather right-wing.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Why? It's a democratic vote of the members, they preferred Ed to David, if not Ed M, they might have preferred Ed Balls or another candidate.
    David Miliband could return from his self-imposed exile, DOI I've got £2 on him at 1000-1 ;)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,976
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    Symptomatic of our wider problem in public life.

    The main, maybe only, way to get to the top is by being a ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of work. And whilst a seasoning of such people is useful in government, politics and elsewhere, you don't want everyone at the top to be like that.
    Problem is - given social media the only people going into politics are ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of works...

    No one else would have the ability to cope...
    Worse than that, it's the strangely naive ruthless cynical backstabbing overambitious nasty piece of works...

    The really self-aware ones go into "business", where the rewards are greater and the scrutiny is less.

    There are many reasons why Starmer was the least bad option in 2020 and 2024 and (probably, just about) still so now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,915

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    As subtle as a brick in going about it.
    Maybe that appeals to the Labour selectorate ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,461
    edited April 21
    After listening to Miliband E on R4 Today this morning, these seem to be the biggest hurdles to Starmer's longer term survival:

    1) No-one believes that having knowingly appointed a dodgy person he would have been put off by being told by the vetters that he had sadly appointed a dodgy person

    2) No-one believes Starmer should have ignored advice from Case to vet first and appoint later

    3) Everyone thinks that in appointing PeterM, and now admitting it was wrong at the time to do so, he committed a graver and more sackable error than, for example, Robbins.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 773
    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    Yes, the problem is that process was happening anyway. Maybe the rest of Europe will invest more in non oil based energy sources. Currently the UK takes too long to get large wind farms through planning, often 10+ years before they are functional. The planning system is laborious, and clearly unfit for purpose. There's also been a slow down in companies going ahead with wind projects - Ed M will argue more money needs to be chucked at companies to increase uptake. That comes at an increased cost to the consumer, and the line upgrade still needs to be paid for.

    Solar, is not as slow. I doubt we will see any more nuclear power stations approved as long as Labour are in power. Something sensible to look at would be to mandate solar panels on every new government building (where practically possible).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,976
    ydoethur said:

    Trump's Labor Secretary has been "resigned". Lori Chavez-Deremer has been the subject of some fantastic "office gossip"...as have her husband and, er, father:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3oIbypHFHc

    Interesting to note who it was brought her down. The New York Post, the hyperloyal Trump rag sheet.

    Is his coalition in the media cracking?
    Makes a change from it being crackers, I guess.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,073
    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Why? It's a democratic vote of the members, they preferred Ed to David, if not Ed M, they might have preferred Ed Balls or another candidate.
    David Miliband could return from his self-imposed exile, DOI I've got £2 on him at 1000-1 ;)
    Made a promise in exchange for a sacrifice from his brother and then not just failed to deliver but took actions that made it harder to be delivered.

    "Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election."
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
    Ship to Santander?
    Santander bars and restaurants are good and very good value compared to San Sebastian, it also has lovely swimming beaches inside the inlet and surfing on the ocean beaches.
    We’re getting the ship to Santander (but staying in the Basque Country) this summer, after my almost rail only trips across Europe and Turkey. I like long ferries and night trains.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,657

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Both were, if that is correct.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188
    DoctorG said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    Yes, the problem is that process was happening anyway. Maybe the rest of Europe will invest more in non oil based energy sources. Currently the UK takes too long to get large wind farms through planning, often 10+ years before they are functional. The planning system is laborious, and clearly unfit for purpose. There's also been a slow down in companies going ahead with wind projects - Ed M will argue more money needs to be chucked at companies to increase uptake. That comes at an increased cost to the consumer, and the line upgrade still needs to be paid for.

    Solar, is not as slow. I doubt we will see any more nuclear power stations approved as long as Labour are in power. Something sensible to look at would be to mandate solar panels on every new government building (where practically possible).
    The delay in offshore wind is mainly on the developer side, BP f****d about for so long because their CEO was only concerned about the price of his share options that their JV partner walked away and the projects are dead.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,858

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    That sounds about right, with the addition that the SMR nuclear needs to be done as quickly as possible.

    The first big problem is likely to be fertiliser for farming, which is needed soon and is unlikely to turn up.

    Aviation fuel can be tankered on the plane in extremis, so for example Emirates can fly an A380 from Dubai to London, and back to Dubai without refuelling. Not all routes and planes can do that though, and it adds a fair bit of cost to the trip.

    Diesel shortages are the big one as so much logistics relies on it, apart from a few electric vans doing the last mile. A fleet of Tesla Semi trucks pretty much needs its own power station to charge at night.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,887

    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Why? It's a democratic vote of the members, they preferred Ed to David, if not Ed M, they might have preferred Ed Balls or another candidate.
    David Miliband could return from his self-imposed exile, DOI I've got £2 on him at 1000-1 ;)
    Made a promise in exchange for a sacrifice from his brother and then not just failed to deliver but took actions that made it harder to be delivered.

    "Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election."
    Almost a year passed. Politics changes.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,073

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Both were, if that is correct.
    What did David do wrong? Betrayal is perhaps too strong and charged, let down is more balanced, but the definition of betrayal includes let down and people feel what they feel.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587
    edited April 21
    One thing to pick up on from the last thread about fuel shortages - is it just my imagination, or are the roads a lot quieter in the last couple of weeks?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,982
    edited April 21
    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    That sounds about right, with the addition that the SMR nuclear needs to be done as quickly as possible.

    The first big problem is likely to be fertiliser for farming, which is needed soon and is unlikely to turn up.
    .
    So we have a combination of El Niño and no fertilizer - crop yields are going to be dire which means a food crisis later this year
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 773
    Dopermean said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    Are you dying to get back down t'pit with luckyguy?
    He'll be judged on his results after 4-5 years, if he's accelerated the green transition, electrification and decoupled electricity tariffs from the gas spot price then he'll have done a good job. Someone else may get to take the credit for it, but it will be down to him.
    If he does all those things, he won't be praised by the general public unless he manages to get energy bills down, as promised.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,964
    edited April 21
    As predicted, Robbins is already lawyered up for this pay out and said can't talk candidly. We are also into Sir Humphreys world of nobody actually passes or fails vetting etc.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,487
    Thornberry kicks off by telling him off for not telling the whole truth the last time!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,487
    Robbins has the same birthday as my brother, and Hitler.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,752
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    As subtle as a brick in going about it.
    Maybe that appeals to the Labour selectorate ?
    A lack of subtlety never ends well.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188
    ydoethur said:

    One thing to pick up on from the last thread about fuel shortages - is it just my imagination, or are the roads a lot quieter in the last couple of weeks?

    kle4 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Why? It's a democratic vote of the members, they preferred Ed to David, if not Ed M, they might have preferred Ed Balls or another candidate.
    David Miliband could return from his self-imposed exile, DOI I've got £2 on him at 1000-1 ;)
    Made a promise in exchange for a sacrifice from his brother and then not just failed to deliver but took actions that made it harder to be delivered.

    "Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election."
    Almost a year passed. Politics changes.
    You're assuming that if David M had resigned and taken down Brown he'd have been elected.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,265
    edited April 21
    Robbins

    Dismissive attitude to Mandelson's vetting from no 10
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,707
    Ratters said:

    I, for one, look forward to chaos with Ed Miliband. It will make a change from the past 11 years of stability and strong government.

    If for nothing else than it would be quite funny.

    Cometh the hour. Cometh the chaos.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,073
    kle4 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Why? It's a democratic vote of the members, they preferred Ed to David, if not Ed M, they might have preferred Ed Balls or another candidate.
    David Miliband could return from his self-imposed exile, DOI I've got £2 on him at 1000-1 ;)
    Made a promise in exchange for a sacrifice from his brother and then not just failed to deliver but took actions that made it harder to be delivered.

    "Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election."
    Almost a year passed. Politics changes.
    If I made a life changing decision based on a promise from anyone, let alone a close relative, and they felt it fine to renege as almost a year had passed, I would probably feel somewhere between let down and betrayed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    As subtle as a brick in going about it.
    Maybe that appeals to the Labour selectorate ?
    A lack of subtlety never ends well.
    Is Ed Miliband bricking it in his window of opportunity?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,882
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
    Ship to Santander?
    Santander bars and restaurants are good and very good value compared to San Sebastian, it also has lovely swimming beaches inside the inlet and surfing on the ocean beaches.
    Brittany Ferries run sleeper ferry routes to Santander and Bilbao. Which would you say is the nicer town for a week's holiday

    https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/ferry-routes/ferries-spain
    https://images.ctfassets.net/zmjc9gr9hbbf/44qQSxEhvmMpe8MYpyb5Gl/8a5cf7fe0f311c0d8ad2a8c3bfa61263/Portsmouth_Spain_EN.png
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,707
    100th anniversary today of Elizabeth II. It really was an Elizabethan century, as it turned out.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,707
    IanB2 said:

    Robbins has the same birthday as my brother, and Hitler.

    Are you ranking them in order of evil?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,587
    Dopermean said:

    ydoethur said:

    One thing to pick up on from the last thread about fuel shortages - is it just my imagination, or are the roads a lot quieter in the last couple of weeks?

    kle4 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Why? It's a democratic vote of the members, they preferred Ed to David, if not Ed M, they might have preferred Ed Balls or another candidate.
    David Miliband could return from his self-imposed exile, DOI I've got £2 on him at 1000-1 ;)
    Made a promise in exchange for a sacrifice from his brother and then not just failed to deliver but took actions that made it harder to be delivered.

    "Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election."
    Almost a year passed. Politics changes.
    You're assuming that if David M had resigned and taken down Brown he'd have been elected.
    I think he would, in that case, because the issue for Brown was without Miliband most of his cabinet would have walked out. He would have been in the situation Massive (and indeed Truss) was in 2022 - the members might have backed him, but he couldn't have actually formed a government.

    And I can imagine that Miliband would have been the only candidate nominated in such a crisis.

    I don't think he would have been any actual good, but even allowing for Labour's pathetic incompetence at regicide I can see how it could have happened.

    Remember, Corbyn survived in 2017 only because a load of dinosaurs agreed to be a makeshift shadow cabinet after Benn and Thornberry walked out on him. In government that would not have been an option.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188
    viewcode said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
    Ship to Santander?
    Santander bars and restaurants are good and very good value compared to San Sebastian, it also has lovely swimming beaches inside the inlet and surfing on the ocean beaches.
    Brittany Ferries run sleeper ferry routes to Santander and Bilbao. Which would you say is the nicer town for a week's holiday

    https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/ferry-routes/ferries-spain
    https://images.ctfassets.net/zmjc9gr9hbbf/44qQSxEhvmMpe8MYpyb5Gl/8a5cf7fe0f311c0d8ad2a8c3bfa61263/Portsmouth_Spain_EN.png
    I've only stayed in Santander, it has nice beaches and good food, there are cultural sites nearby but the caves need to be booked well in advance as visitor numbers are very limited.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,982
    DoctorG said:

    Dopermean said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    Are you dying to get back down t'pit with luckyguy?
    He'll be judged on his results after 4-5 years, if he's accelerated the green transition, electrification and decoupled electricity tariffs from the gas spot price then he'll have done a good job. Someone else may get to take the credit for it, but it will be down to him.
    If he does all those things, he won't be praised by the general public unless he manages to get energy bills down, as promised.
    De couple electricity prices from gas and energy prices will be less than they would otherwise be.

    Whether the public appreciates it depends on the prices before the decoupling as most people only look at things very short term - as an example see how quickly the 4p reduction in NI was taken for granted by people
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,707

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Ed is a dick. Possibly a helpful dick on this occasion but a dick nonetheless. When I heard he was Environment Secretary I was worried. Rightly, as it turned out.

    He stabbed his brother in the back, stabbing Starmer in the back is no biggie.
    He didn't stab his brither in the back, merely ran against him and beat him.

    David M showed his complacency and arrogance. I do not think there is a place for primogeniture in democratic politics.

    DOI: I am not the oldest brother.
    Both OGH and myself have heard independently from people at the top of Labour that this is what happened.

    June 2009 - David Miliband was about to resign and challenge Gordon Brown, Ed persuaded him not to, and told him, I will make sure you succeed Brown after the election.

    May 2010 Ed Miliband decides to run as Labour leader, not to become leader, but to do well and get a senior shadow cabinet job without it looking as nepotism

    Summer of 2010 - Ed decides to run a strong campaign as not to finish second from last.

    September 2010 - Wins

    David Miliband felt betrayed.

    If that is the whole truth then Ed was in the wrong imo.
    Both were, if that is correct.
    What did David do wrong? Betrayal is perhaps too strong and charged, let down is more balanced, but the definition of betrayal includes let down and people feel what they feel.
    Betrayal presumes David was entitled to the leadership and Ed wasn't. Actually Ed is the more competent one.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,188
    Robbins update
    Thornberry has opened with a bouncer "started by saying that Robbins did not tell the whole truth about this process when he gave evidence to it in November"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,382
    ydoethur said:

    One thing to pick up on from the last thread about fuel shortages - is it just my imagination, or are the roads a lot quieter in the last couple of weeks?

    I've heard similar from other people, though I haven't been on the roads enough to judge. I can tell that people are driving more slowly though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,964
    edited April 21
    Classic Sir Humphrey, I won't tell you which other civil servant called daily....I didn't come in to the civil service to name people....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,147
    Dopermean said:

    viewcode said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    As various commentators have pointed out, the Iran war is a catastrofuck for the global economy, and we are in a worse place than most developed countries.

    If the war ended definitively tomorrow the disruption would last well into the summer - but with an upward slope to offset the low stocks and high prices. But it rumbles on and the stand off continues to get worse. So the disruption will turn into outright shortages with all that entails.

    Chatting with my brother last night about this and he said "you're driving to Spain [this summer] aren't you?" True - but taking the ship on the way south. Already contemplating a late switch to driving due to a lack of fuel...
    Ship to Santander?
    Santander bars and restaurants are good and very good value compared to San Sebastian, it also has lovely swimming beaches inside the inlet and surfing on the ocean beaches.
    Brittany Ferries run sleeper ferry routes to Santander and Bilbao. Which would you say is the nicer town for a week's holiday

    https://www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/ferry-routes/ferries-spain
    https://images.ctfassets.net/zmjc9gr9hbbf/44qQSxEhvmMpe8MYpyb5Gl/8a5cf7fe0f311c0d8ad2a8c3bfa61263/Portsmouth_Spain_EN.png
    I've only stayed in Santander, it has nice beaches and good food, there are cultural sites nearby but the caves need to be booked well in advance as visitor numbers are very limited.
    Is there a Santander there though ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,509
    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Ed M on Mandelson "we believe in dignity in retirement"

    He's up vs Robinson.
    We'll see what Robbins says / implies this morning.
    Robinson has moved on to attack net zero.

    Some analysts are predicting that Trump's war may result in an acceleration of the green transition.

    If my prognostications (and those of many others) come to pass, the big pressures (in the U.K. and Europe) will be on aviation kerosene, diesel and fertiliser.

    Running nitrogen fixing off pure ‘leccy is possible - but expensive. Guano makes a comeback?

    Manufacturing aviation fuel from non fossil fuel is being experimented with.

    Big electric trucks (semis) exist but haven’t been rolled out in a big way. Range, charging and upfront cost, plus a conservative industry with a big investment in existing vehicles. This could be where the war gives a big shove.

    Small delivery is going electric at a rate of knots, now.
    That sounds about right, with the addition that the SMR nuclear needs to be done as quickly as possible.

    The first big problem is likely to be fertiliser for farming, which is needed soon and is unlikely to turn up.

    Aviation fuel can be tankered on the plane in extremis, so for example Emirates can fly an A380 from Dubai to London, and back to Dubai without refuelling. Not all routes and planes can do that though, and it adds a fair bit of cost to the trip.

    Diesel shortages are the big one as so much logistics relies on it, apart from a few electric vans doing the last mile. A fleet of Tesla Semi trucks pretty much needs its own power station to charge at night.
    "the SMR nuclear needs to be done as quickly as possible"

    Cutting corners on nuclear to get them onstream? That's going to go well...

    It just means we will be expected to pay through the nose even more than we do now. How is that going to stack up with South Korea's nuclear power being 1/5th the cost of ours? We are simply not competitive on energy against competitors.
This discussion has been closed.