Money is also one reason why Farage will find it difficult to break with Trump. There's so much money available for a pro-Trump British politician that's it's in Farage's financial self-interest to be pro-Trump. And we see from the Cameo videos how Farage is extraordinarily motivated by relatively small sums of money.
To Rubio. To not be in the room when the fuck up happens. Nor even to be in the same continent.
There was a story somewhere about the decision making for the Iran war
- Hegseth was in favour - Vance opposed - Rubio sat on the fence
I mean, how does the *Secretary of State* not have a definitive position on something that could upend his country’s global foreign policy?
The article was in the NYT last week.
It’s quite tough on Vance that’s he’s getting some of the blame for a stupid war he opposed. I know most of us on PB are big Vance fans, so it hardly needs saying, but if he’s going to win big in 2028 he needs to somehow distance himself from Trump without getting destroyed as a contender
Vance went to Pakistan and failed to get anything so the whole next stage of the war has Vance's name all over it.
Which means Trump has once again won by destroying slowly destroying his No 2...
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals" Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
To Rubio. To not be in the room when the fuck up happens. Nor even to be in the same continent.
There was a story somewhere about the decision making for the Iran war
- Hegseth was in favour - Vance opposed - Rubio sat on the fence
I mean, how does the *Secretary of State* not have a definitive position on something that could upend his country’s global foreign policy?
The article was in the NYT last week.
It’s quite tough on Vance that’s he’s getting some of the blame for a stupid war he opposed. I know most of us on PB are big Vance fans, so it hardly needs saying, but if he’s going to win big in 2028 he needs to somehow distance himself from Trump without getting destroyed as a contender
Vance went to Pakistan and failed to get anything so the whole next stage of the war has Vance's name all over it.
Which means Trump has once again won by destroying slowly destroying his No 2...
To Rubio. To not be in the room when the fuck up happens. Nor even to be in the same continent.
There was a story somewhere about the decision making for the Iran war
- Hegseth was in favour - Vance opposed - Rubio sat on the fence
I mean, how does the *Secretary of State* not have a definitive position on something that could upend his country’s global foreign policy?
The article was in the NYT last week.
It’s quite tough on Vance that’s he’s getting some of the blame for a stupid war he opposed. I know most of us on PB are big Vance fans, so it hardly needs saying, but if he’s going to win big in 2028 he needs to somehow distance himself from Trump without getting destroyed as a contender
Vance went to Pakistan and failed to get anything so the whole next stage of the war has Vance's name all over it.
Which means Trump has once again won by destroying slowly destroying his No 2...
Perhaps deliberately.
Perhaps?
Trump has declined so far cognitively that it's hard to say whether anything he does is backed by reasoning.
Can anyone explain where the new Hungarian President sits politically? He repulsion was aiui from Orban's corrupt state.
Where is he on the right spectrum - would be be say a Christian Democrat, a Free Democrat, a Wet Tory, a Dry Tory, an old style Ukipper, closer to Meloni, or something else?
Is the party really pronounced as some US commentators are doing as the "Tizer Party" ! ?
Meloni is perhaps the closest parallel - right-wing but not obviously bonkers or corrupt.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It is true that remuneration in the public sector has increased - at the high levels. Once, a few senior Civil Servants were paid well. Now we have a whole raft of people, often "consultants", who earn very, very well.
I would argue the issue goes back further. Especially post 1945, we were supposed to sweep away deference to the Old Order ( Old10K ). The assumption was that, freed from bowing to the Nobility, the common man (and woman) would rise to better things. And they did.
The issue governments now find, is that the common people have been told that their views matter. That government is not something to be done to them. That they are consumers and have rights.
Meanwhile, the governmental system has continued in the producer interest mentality - the people should *defer* to the decisions of their betters. And they are their betters - are they not height of the meritocracy?
They say that the monkeys at the top of the tree look down and see smiling faces. The monkeys at the bottom look up and see...
The gap is the lack of persuasion. Of advocating. Of argument.. Even interest in persuading people of policies. Policies are just dumped into the discourse.
Which is why alternatives, who do actually make a pitch for a new program, are making the running now.
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals" Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
Buckle up. Peruvian politics is *fun*.
Are these the policy positions of Peruvian presidential candidates on crime?
If so, it sounds like they are all learning from Bukele in El Salvador. And why not. Because he’s an outstanding success, he’s turned his entire country around, he’s reduced crime by orders of magnitude and his popularity is off the dial
Yes, probably some innocent people have gone to jail, infringing their human rights, but as he says: at the same time hundreds of people have not been murdered, thousands of women have not been raped. Etc
I predict Bukele style politics will migrate to Europe in time, also up to the USA
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
I think you are on the right track here. I think that people have cause and effect the wrong way around on the Brexit referendum.
I think that the Brexit referendum did not reveal a fundamental divide in our country - it caused it!
Referendums force people to pick a side in a binary question in the place of more vague and nuanced opinion. This then becomes a large part of their political identity.
Pretty much the same seems to be true of the Sindy referendum for Scots. Feelings of scottish patriotism crystalised around that vote when they were more shades of grey previously. Which is why the SNP are on the verge of another majority government despite a track record of incompetence and failure in government.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
On the other side of the coin Brexit also moved some white working class voters to the right who had always voted Labour before, Boris was the first Conservative leader ever to win DEs and also won C2s massively in 2019. Though many of those voters have now gone Reform
Can anyone explain where the new Hungarian President sits politically? He repulsion was aiui from Orban's corrupt state.
Where is he on the right spectrum - would be be say a Christian Democrat, a Free Democrat, a Wet Tory, a Dry Tory, an old style Ukipper, closer to Meloni, or something else?
Is the party really pronounced as some US commentators are doing as the "Tizer Party" ! ?
I suspect no one really knows - he seems to have spent the past 2 years positioning himself in a way that wouldn’t scare any potential voter. So I suspect his real views will only appear later
OK - so to estimate an answer to my own question:
I put them as somewhere in the dry Tory camp from before the Tories went into their current Reform-tracking loop, small Government and sceptical of Euro-centralisation, with an updated recognition of how the institutions have changed.
But they are not out to be institution-wreckers.
With some awareness of which side their bread is buttered because the EU hold the purse strings and a sum around ~7-8% of their GDP as paused funding, being on the Menu for Moscow, and the current international situation.
IMO he will rapidly reform corrupt institutions to free up funds, but the EU will be cautious to make sure reform flows through, and Magyar will rapidly unblock Ukraine funding as one of his first steps.
To Rubio. To not be in the room when the fuck up happens. Nor even to be in the same continent.
There was a story somewhere about the decision making for the Iran war
- Hegseth was in favour - Vance opposed - Rubio sat on the fence
I mean, how does the *Secretary of State* not have a definitive position on something that could upend his country’s global foreign policy?
The article was in the NYT last week.
It’s quite tough on Vance that’s he’s getting some of the blame for a stupid war he opposed. I know most of us on PB are big Vance fans, so it hardly needs saying, but if he’s going to win big in 2028 he needs to somehow distance himself from Trump without getting destroyed as a contender
Vance went to Pakistan and failed to get anything so the whole next stage of the war has Vance's name all over it.
Which means Trump has once again won by destroying slowly destroying his No 2...
Vance has had an absolutely dreadful few days in terms of his ambitions to succeed Trump, which is an endeavour where he'd looked to be pretty much nailed on. Not just Iran but also his doomed mission to get Orban over the line. And I suspect Trump has indeed deliberately given him those poisoned chalices.
He needs to go back to the drawing board, and potentially back to the sofa.
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals" Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
Buckle up. Peruvian politics is *fun*.
Are these the policy positions of Peruvian presidential candidates on crime?
If so, it sounds like they are all learning from Bukele in El Salvador. And why not. Because he’s an outstanding success, he’s turned his entire country around, he’s reduced crime by orders of magnitude and his popularity is off the dial
Yes, probably some innocent people have gone to jail, infringing their human rights, but as he says: at the same time hundreds of people have not been murdered, thousands of women have not been raped. Etc
I predict Bukele style politics will migrate to Europe in time, also up to the USA
Yes. Another authoritarian clown show. The corruption will be epic. But the corruption is always epic in Peruvian politics,
Peru oscillates between liberalism and authoritarian crackdowns.
Keiko has won the first round on the basis of her dad's memory.
Who, faced by the Shining Path, got Vladimiro Lenin Ilich Montesinos Torres (love that name) to start a counter-revolution, based on Mao's Little Red Book, *against* the Maoists.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals" Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
Buckle up. Peruvian politics is *fun*.
Are these the policy positions of Peruvian presidential candidates on crime?
If so, it sounds like they are all learning from Bukele in El Salvador. And why not. Because he’s an outstanding success, he’s turned his entire country around, he’s reduced crime by orders of magnitude and his popularity is off the dial
Yes, probably some innocent people have gone to jail, infringing their human rights, but as he says: at the same time hundreds of people have not been murdered, thousands of women have not been raped. Etc
I predict Bukele style politics will migrate to Europe in time, also up to the USA
Once we have reimagined Terminator we (or they?) shall do the same with Minority Report. We will be assessed for crime risk based on brain scans and past history (fully tracked in real time) and disposed of if we fail to meet safe criteria. Good luck!
To Rubio. To not be in the room when the fuck up happens. Nor even to be in the same continent.
There was a story somewhere about the decision making for the Iran war
- Hegseth was in favour - Vance opposed - Rubio sat on the fence
I mean, how does the *Secretary of State* not have a definitive position on something that could upend his country’s global foreign policy?
The article was in the NYT last week.
It’s quite tough on Vance that’s he’s getting some of the blame for a stupid war he opposed. I know most of us on PB are big Vance fans, so it hardly needs saying, but if he’s going to win big in 2028 he needs to somehow distance himself from Trump without getting destroyed as a contender
Vance went to Pakistan and failed to get anything so the whole next stage of the war has Vance's name all over it.
Which means Trump has once again won by destroying slowly destroying his No 2...
Vance has had an absolutely dreadful few days in terms of his ambitions to succeed Trump, which is an endeavour where he'd looked to be pretty much nailed on. Not just Iran but also his doomed mission to get Orban over the line. And I suspect Trump has indeed deliberately given him those poisoned chalices.
He needs to go back to the drawing board, and potentially back to the sofa.
Trump's voters will probably end up with one of his son's next rather than the latest hired sycophants.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Cohort effects in political opinion and voting behaviour are under appreciated, because they take so long to play out. Those of us young under Mrs T have struggled with the concept of voting Tory ever since.
That isn't really true, under Mrs T the Conservative vote amongst 18-24s surged from just 24% under Heath in October 1974 to 42% in 1979 and 1983 (the only 2 general elections in the last 50 years the Conservatives have beaten Labour amongst the youngest voters). Even in 1987 the Conservatives got 37% with 18 to 24s, slightly higher than the 35% Major got in 1992. From 1997-2005 the Conservative vote amongst the youngest voters fell back under 30% and has been at that level ever since, only scraping 30% even in 2010 with Cameron which was still less than Maggie got with the young
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
Why is Brexit not in favour of free economics? Customs unions are protectionist
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals" Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
Buckle up. Peruvian politics is *fun*.
Are these the policy positions of Peruvian presidential candidates on crime?
If so, it sounds like they are all learning from Bukele in El Salvador. And why not. Because he’s an outstanding success, he’s turned his entire country around, he’s reduced crime by orders of magnitude and his popularity is off the dial
Yes, probably some innocent people have gone to jail, infringing their human rights, but as he says: at the same time hundreds of people have not been murdered, thousands of women have not been raped. Etc
I predict Bukele style politics will migrate to Europe in time, also up to the USA
Yes. Another authoritarian clown show. The corruption will be epic. But the corruption is always epic in Peruvian politics,
Peru oscillates between liberalism and authoritarian crackdowns.
Keiko has won the first round on the basis of her dad's memory.
Who, faced by the Shining Path, got Vladimiro Lenin Ilich Montesinos Torres (love that name) to start a counter-revolution, based on Mao's Little Red Book, *against* the Maoists.
But Bukele has made this WORK in El Salvador
The key seems to be: really follow through. Build enormous prisons. Don’t be deterred by human rights lawyers. Lock em all up and don’t be shy about it
Also, be relatively uncorrupt yourself. May be an issue in Peru I grant you
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
But also, changing attitudes in those public sector professions. Go back to Before Maggie and your typical GP, Headmaster etc would have been solidly conservative and Conservative. There's a passage in Alan Clark's The Tories lamenting the party's loosening grip on people like that. Brexit, and the Red Wall Theory of becoming the party of retired homeowners accelerated the process, but it's been building a long time.
Another tentative theory posing as a question: is there a distinction between the Very Comfortable Thankyou who do seem to have drifted left, and the Mega Mega Rich (the Musks, Thiels and Marshalls) who seem to be more right wing than ever?
I suppose I'm in the VeryComfortable group, and politics has never been much about money for me, though I'm opposed to bonkers government that actually reduces income. Politics is about fairness for me, and our system seems to me transparently unfair, to the point that if you're born in the wrong circles the dice are massively stacked against you. If I was struggling desperately then perhaps economics would become the key issue, but the Right doesn't seem all that interested these days in economic growth benefiting everyone. Thatcher's policy on selling council housing probably filled that gap for a lot of ambitious working-class people,.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
Why is Brexit not in favour of free economics? Customs unions are protectionist
Because the net real world impact is clearly a reduction in trade?
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Cohort effects in political opinion and voting behaviour are under appreciated, because they take so long to play out. Those of us young under Mrs T have struggled with the concept of voting Tory ever since.
That isn't really true, under Mrs T the Conservative vote amongst 18-24s surged from just 24% under Heath in October 1974 to 42% in 1979 and 1983 (the only 2 general elections in the last 50 years the Conservatives have beaten Labour amongst the youngest voters). Even in 1987 the Conservatives got 37% with 18 to 24s, slightly higher than the 35% Major got in 1992. From 1997-2005 the Conservative vote amongst the youngest voters fell back under 30% and has been at that level ever since, only scraping 30% even in 2010 with Cameron which was still less than Maggie got with the young
Maggie had an extremely strong retail offer with the young: buy your own home, start your own business, take your own money aboard, free to decide what to do not your Union etc.
The Conservatives seem to have forgotten that since.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
Free trade is liberal but not especially rightwing, plenty of rightwingers from Derby and Disraeli and Joseph Chamberlain, to Baldwin, Enoch Powell and Warren G Harding and now Trump have been protectionist.
The likes of Powell even opposed our joining the EEC in the first place, it was more the liberal centrist establishment most in favour
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Davey is anything but centre right, but I must admit he's pretty good at suggesting he might be.
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
Free trade is liberal but not especially rightwing, plenty of rightwingers from Derby and Disraeli and Joseph Chamberlain, to Baldwin, Enoch Powell and Warren G Harding and now Trump have been protectionist.
The likes of Powell even opposed our joining the EEC in the first place, it was more the liberal centrist establishment most in favour
Nationalist autocrats not centre right conservatives.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
Why is Brexit not in favour of free economics? Customs unions are protectionist
Because the net real world impact is clearly a reduction in trade?
There are two ideologies to European integration, somewhat in contradiction with each other although no more in contradiction than the ideologies of all other geopolitical movements.
One is that of free trade, free movement, market liberalism combined with consumer protection and a social safety net. The stuff that centrist voters in the UK were most committed to when they voted remain.
The other is perhaps the emerging force, articulated by Europe’s closest thing to an EU patriot, Guy Verhofstadt. That is that we live in an age of empires, and for small states to survive the EU must have enough weight to punch back, economically and politically.
The empires narrative allows for protectionism and even fortress-Europe. But Trump, Putin and Xi are making the case for it. As did Carney, with his if you’re not at the table you’re lunch speech.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
No they are not. But I am comfortable with your advice for the slightly right of centre to vote Davey.
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
You think there's any rational thought going into this?
US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
Brexit is neither conservative nor in favour of free economics so in what sense is it right wing?
Why is Brexit not in favour of free economics? Customs unions are protectionist
Because the net real world impact is clearly a reduction in trade?
I'm not sure freedom of trade arguments are based purely on volume. The EU is protectionist and isolationist, unless you join the club, and has a democratic defecit.
Plenty of people would have been happy to be in a different EU, but the EU has no mechanism for making it different.
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals" Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
Buckle up. Peruvian politics is *fun*.
Are these the policy positions of Peruvian presidential candidates on crime?
If so, it sounds like they are all learning from Bukele in El Salvador. And why not. Because he’s an outstanding success, he’s turned his entire country around, he’s reduced crime by orders of magnitude and his popularity is off the dial
Yes, probably some innocent people have gone to jail, infringing their human rights, but as he says: at the same time hundreds of people have not been murdered, thousands of women have not been raped. Etc
I predict Bukele style politics will migrate to Europe in time, also up to the USA
Once we have reimagined Terminator we (or they?) shall do the same with Minority Report. We will be assessed for crime risk based on brain scans and past history (fully tracked in real time) and disposed of if we fail to meet safe criteria. Good luck!
Bud from Diamond Age has reached the end of the pier....
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
You think there's any rational thought going into this?
US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
It's vibe war - you keep doing stuff until victory happens.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
But also, changing attitudes in those public sector professions. Go back to Before Maggie and your typical GP, Headmaster etc would have been solidly conservative and Conservative. There's a passage in Alan Clark's The Tories lamenting the party's loosening grip on people like that. Brexit, and the Red Wall Theory of becoming the party of retired homeowners accelerated the process, but it's been building a long time.
Another tentative theory posing as a question: is there a distinction between the Very Comfortable Thankyou who do seem to have drifted left, and the Mega Mega Rich (the Musks, Thiels and Marshalls) who seem to be more right wing than ever?
I suppose I'm in the VeryComfortable group, and politics has never been much about money for me, though I'm opposed to bonkers government that actually reduces income. Politics is about fairness for me, and our system seems to me transparently unfair, to the point that if you're born in the wrong circles the dice are massively stacked against you. If I was struggling desperately then perhaps economics would become the key issue, but the Right doesn't seem all that interested these days in economic growth benefiting everyone. Thatcher's policy on selling council housing probably filled that gap for a lot of ambitious working-class people,.
"And, for an instant, she stared directly into those soft blue eyes and knew, with an instinctive mammalian certainty, that the exceedingly rich were no longer even remotely human.”
Posted as an example of why no-one gets any work done and why people complain about woke...
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival . They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
It’s been going on a lot longer than just since Brexit.
If you look at the voting shifts for the AB socioeconomic classifications there is a marked change to the left (largely explained by the cohort effect but also because of the increasing number of highly paid sector jobs in those categories).
The Conservatives stopped being the sensible party with Brexit, but they were also the only recipient of right of centre votes. If you are a sensible right of centre person, you no longer have a home. It doesn't mean you are an actual leftist.
Kemi's Tories are perfectly sensible now, even Davey's LDs are arguably centre right but anti Brexit
No they are not. But I am comfortable with your advice for the slightly right of centre to vote Davey.
Something is changing when @HYUFD is praising Kemi
Davey is not right of centre right and frankly would do better to stand up to Starmer more
Posted as an example of why no-one gets any work done and why people complain about woke...
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival . They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
What a waste time...
Says someone with over 22,000 posts on one social media site alone...
Posted as an example of why no-one gets any work done and why people complain about woke...
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival . They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
What a waste time...
Whereas 20 minutes bantering about the weekend’s footie, a staple of Monday workplaces since time immemorial, is by contrast a productive pastime and great for morale?
Posted as an example of why no-one gets any work done and why people complain about woke...
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival . They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
What a waste time...
Says someone with over 22,000 posts on one social media site alone...
Posted as an example of why no-one gets any work done and why people complain about woke...
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival . They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
What a waste time...
Says someone with over 22,000 posts on one social media site alone...
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
You think there's any rational thought going into this?
US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
Thank God we have a leader of great Global stature. He has put UK back on the Global Map at the top table after Brexit turned us on to a 3rd world nobody.
The guts to stand up to Trump, Putin, Netanyahu through diplomacy and not tantrums.
Not up the ass hole of demented Trump whims like Farage and Badenoch
Not hell bent on destroying NATO or what it may become like Polanski and Farage.
A serious political leader who seeks conciliation and reconciliation.
A Leader respected in Europe, Middle East, Asia, old Commonwealth and after the disaster of Brexit one who has carved a niche as de factor European Leader accepted by EU and who can forge closer ties to massive benefit of UK trade and business, ease leisure and trade movements without excesses of worst bits of complete freedom of movement.
History may well show him as one of the great internationally respected UK leaders in war time scenarios.
Can anyone explain where the new Hungarian President sits politically? He repulsion was aiui from Orban's corrupt state.
Where is he on the right spectrum - would be be say a Christian Democrat, a Free Democrat, a Wet Tory, a Dry Tory, an old style Ukipper, closer to Meloni, or something else?
Is the party really pronounced as some US commentators are doing as the "Tizer Party" ! ?
He's part of the same EU party political grouping as the Tories used to be, back when Casino was happier with them.
What matters more than his left/right orientation is the strength of his commitments to tackling corruption and restoring a full democracy including a genuinely free press and the like. Only time will tell; remember that Orban started out as a liberal reformer...
Can anyone explain where the new Hungarian President sits politically? He repulsion was aiui from Orban's corrupt state.
Where is he on the right spectrum - would be be say a Christian Democrat, a Free Democrat, a Wet Tory, a Dry Tory, an old style Ukipper, closer to Meloni, or something else?
Is the party really pronounced as some US commentators are doing as the "Tizer Party" ! ?
He's part of the same EU party political grouping as the Tories used to be, back when Casino was happier with them.
Yes, he seems bog standard EPP to me. Some of his nationalist statements have been used to warn people he’s not a cuddly liberal, but you could say the same of plenty of EPP members.
In any case his precise position on the left-right spectrum is largely irrelevant to the rest of us, it’s his non alignment with Putin or Trump that’s the good news.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
So people who thought they would always be on the winning side became radicalised by defeat.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Cohort effects in political opinion and voting behaviour are under appreciated, because they take so long to play out. Those of us young under Mrs T have struggled with the concept of voting Tory ever since.
That isn't really true, under Mrs T the Conservative vote amongst 18-24s surged from just 24% under Heath in October 1974 to 42% in 1979 and 1983 (the only 2 general elections in the last 50 years the Conservatives have beaten Labour amongst the youngest voters). Even in 1987 the Conservatives got 37% with 18 to 24s, slightly higher than the 35% Major got in 1992. From 1997-2005 the Conservative vote amongst the youngest voters fell back under 30% and has been at that level ever since, only scraping 30% even in 2010 with Cameron which was still less than Maggie got with the young
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
You think there's any rational thought going into this?
US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
And Trump wonders why he is getting so few takers for everyone else's tactical priority of getting Hormuz open and the tankers moving, without a very large amount of errming.
Truth is, considering what Iran might do makes it a difficult and dangerous mission with the distinct possibility of significant losses.
What Israel might do in terms of bombing Iran or Lebanon has some influence on the extent of the Iranian risk.
What America is doing in terms of threats, what it might be asked to do in terms of naval activity in the straights would be threatening to turn any already dangerous allied mission that were running alongside into a clusterfuck on stilts. Why on earth would you just jump in rather than plan (and we may end up having to be involved in this anyway!) with the US as such an utterly reckless and mercurial "ally".
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
Because nobody believed Trump last week whereas it would be easy for Trump to blockade Iran's ports.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Let me weigh in on this as a wealthy left winger! I don't rate your first two arguments, they certainly don't apply in my case. Your third point applies to me although it was growing up under Thatcher not Major that made me loathe the Tories. I think the main reason is something you haven't mentioned. The meaning of left/right has changed, it is less about economics than it was and more about social and cultural issues. Many wealthy people have tended to be socially liberal and as the meaning of left/right has changed so more rich people have been pulled into the "left wing" definition, even while their fundamental views haven't changed. Brexit was a defining moment in this process. I know a lot of wealthy people for whom Brexit was a kind of radicalising event, or at least one that made them realise their world view and that of the "right" were no longer in alignment. It wasn't such a big deal for me because I was already in the other camp.
So people who thought they would always be on the winning side became radicalised by defeat.
Rather reminiscent of much of MAGA.
Might be an element of that. Like I say, I'm not in this camp myself, being always on the left and hence well acquainted with being on the losing side.
Posted as an example of why no-one gets any work done and why people complain about woke...
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival . They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
What a waste time...
It's an important holiday in Thailand...... known as Songkran ...... and great fun too. A great deal of water is thrown about, although it's only supposed to be be a little, gently poured over the fingers, similar to Anglican baptism. Pretty girls wander about in soaked and therefore almost see-through dresses.
The political question I'd most like to know the answer to is: why have wealthy people become more left-wing over recent decades?
Three reasons (in the UK)
- the relative rise of high paid public sector roles - The increased importance of government funding for private business (eg that green energy chap) - The cohort effect for people in the late 40s/early 50s who became political aware under Major’s government and have had a sustained anti-Tory lean for all their lives but are now approaching peak wealth
Cohort effects in political opinion and voting behaviour are under appreciated, because they take so long to play out. Those of us young under Mrs T have struggled with the concept of voting Tory ever since.
That isn't really true, under Mrs T the Conservative vote amongst 18-24s surged from just 24% under Heath in October 1974 to 42% in 1979 and 1983 (the only 2 general elections in the last 50 years the Conservatives have beaten Labour amongst the youngest voters). Even in 1987 the Conservatives got 37% with 18 to 24s, slightly higher than the 35% Major got in 1992. From 1997-2005 the Conservative vote amongst the youngest voters fell back under 30% and has been at that level ever since, only scraping 30% even in 2010 with Cameron which was still less than Maggie got with the young
Can anyone explain where the new Hungarian President sits politically? He repulsion was aiui from Orban's corrupt state.
Where is he on the right spectrum - would be be say a Christian Democrat, a Free Democrat, a Wet Tory, a Dry Tory, an old style Ukipper, closer to Meloni, or something else?
Is the party really pronounced as some US commentators are doing as the "Tizer Party" ! ?
He's part of the same EU party political grouping as the Tories used to be, back when Casino was happier with them.
What matters more than his left/right orientation is the strength of his commitments to tackling corruption and restoring a full democracy including a genuinely free press and the like. Only time will tell; remember that Orban started out as a liberal reformer...
If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?
You think there's any rational thought going into this?
US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
Thank God we have a leader of great Global stature. He has put UK back on the Global Map at the top table after Brexit turned us on to a 3rd world nobody.
The guts to stand up to Trump, Putin, Netanyahu through diplomacy and not tantrums.
Not up the ass hole of demented Trump whims like Farage and Badenoch
Not hell bent on destroying NATO or what it may become like Polanski and Farage.
A serious political leader who seeks conciliation and reconciliation.
A Leader respected in Europe, Middle East, Asia, old Commonwealth and after the disaster of Brexit one who has carved a niche as de factor European Leader accepted by EU and who can forge closer ties to massive benefit of UK trade and business, ease leisure and trade movements without excesses of worst bits of complete freedom of movement.
History may well show him as one of the great internationally respected UK leaders in war time scenarios.
Comments
Keiko Fujimori - prisoners must work to eat
Carlos Alvarez - designate all criminals as military targets subject to death if they did not surrender, saying "to hell with the human rights of criminals"
Rafael Lopez Aliaga - prisons in Amazon rainforest, surrounded by South American bushmaster vipers.
Buckle up. Peruvian politics is *fun*.
I would argue the issue goes back further. Especially post 1945, we were supposed to sweep away deference to the Old Order ( Old10K ). The assumption was that, freed from bowing to the Nobility, the common man (and woman) would rise to better things. And they did.
The issue governments now find, is that the common people have been told that their views matter. That government is not something to be done to them. That they are consumers and have rights.
Meanwhile, the governmental system has continued in the producer interest mentality - the people should *defer* to the decisions of their betters. And they are their betters - are they not height of the meritocracy?
They say that the monkeys at the top of the tree look down and see smiling faces. The monkeys at the bottom look up and see...
The gap is the lack of persuasion. Of advocating. Of argument.. Even interest in persuading people of policies. Policies are just dumped into the discourse.
Which is why alternatives, who do actually make a pitch for a new program, are making the running now.
If so, it sounds like they are all learning from Bukele in El Salvador. And why not. Because he’s an outstanding success, he’s turned his entire country around, he’s reduced crime by orders of magnitude and his popularity is off the dial
Yes, probably some innocent people have gone to jail, infringing their human rights, but as he says: at the same time hundreds of people have not been murdered, thousands of women have not been raped. Etc
I predict Bukele style politics will migrate to Europe in time, also up to the USA
Trump Approval Among White Non-College Voters:
🔴 Disapprove: 52% (+20)
🟢 Approve: 48% (-20)
YouGov / April 2026
https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/2043384966772388235
Goes to Islamabad and fails to deliver deal with Iran!
Goes to Hungary and fails to convince Hungarians to re-elect Orban!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq69q36gpg8o
Fidesz Castro!
I put them as somewhere in the dry Tory camp from before the Tories went into their current Reform-tracking loop, small Government and sceptical of Euro-centralisation, with an updated recognition of how the institutions have changed.
But they are not out to be institution-wreckers.
With some awareness of which side their bread is buttered because the EU hold the purse strings and a sum around ~7-8% of their GDP as paused funding, being on the Menu for Moscow, and the current international situation.
IMO he will rapidly reform corrupt institutions to free up funds, but the EU will be cautious to make sure reform flows through, and Magyar will rapidly unblock Ukraine funding as one of his first steps.
He needs to go back to the drawing board, and potentially back to the sofa.
Peru oscillates between liberalism and authoritarian crackdowns.
Keiko has won the first round on the basis of her dad's memory.
Who, faced by the Shining Path, got Vladimiro Lenin Ilich Montesinos Torres (love that name) to start a counter-revolution, based on Mao's Little Red Book, *against* the Maoists.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/how-britain-voted-october-1974
The key seems to be: really follow through. Build enormous prisons. Don’t be deterred by human rights lawyers. Lock em all up and don’t be shy about it
Also, be relatively uncorrupt yourself. May be an issue in Peru I grant you
The Conservatives seem to have forgotten that since.
The likes of Powell even opposed our joining the EEC in the first place, it was more the liberal centrist establishment most in favour
One is that of free trade, free movement, market liberalism combined with consumer protection and a social safety net. The stuff that centrist voters in the UK were most committed to when they voted remain.
The other is perhaps the emerging force, articulated by Europe’s closest thing to an EU patriot, Guy Verhofstadt. That is that we live in an age of empires, and for small states to survive the EU must have enough weight to punch back, economically and politically.
The empires narrative allows for protectionism and even fortress-Europe. But Trump, Putin and Xi are making the case for it. As did Carney, with his if you’re not at the table you’re lunch speech.
US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
Plenty of people would have been happy to be in a different EU, but the EU has no mechanism for making it different.
First email
"Hi Everyone, Today is Vaisakhi, an important Sikh festival. The event marks the birth of the Khalsa and celebrates service, equality and community. We wish a happy Vaisakhi to all staff and students who are observing this occasion."
The reply
"Vaiskahi is not just a Sikh festival, For a significant part of India it is start of the New year (13th, 14th and 15th April) and is celebrated as Vaisahki in North and Central India, Vishu in the southern state of Kerala , Bihu in Assam, Puthandu in TamilNadu , Pohela Boishakh in Bengal and Maha Bishuba Sankranti in Orissa. It also marks the start of the New Yar for the states of Jharkand and Tripura, So it is an important Hindu festival .
They are all part of the New year festivals in South and Southeast Asian solar New Year as observed by Hindus and Buddhists and it is a festival based on the spring harvest."
What a waste time...
Davey is not right of centre right and frankly would do better to stand up to Starmer more
Or more likely, truck drivers.
At what point does Republican incumbent fear of voters exceed that of Trump? It has to be soon you'd think.
The guts to stand up to Trump, Putin, Netanyahu through diplomacy and not tantrums.
Not up the ass hole of demented Trump whims like Farage and Badenoch
Not hell bent on destroying NATO or what it may become like Polanski and Farage.
A serious political leader who seeks conciliation and reconciliation.
A Leader respected in Europe, Middle East, Asia, old Commonwealth and after the disaster of Brexit one who has carved a niche as de factor European Leader accepted by EU and who can forge closer ties to massive benefit of UK trade and business, ease leisure and trade movements without excesses of worst bits of complete freedom of movement.
History may well show him as one of the great internationally respected UK leaders in war time scenarios.
What matters more than his left/right orientation is the strength of his commitments to tackling corruption and restoring a full democracy including a genuinely free press and the like. Only time will tell; remember that Orban started out as a liberal reformer...
In any case his precise position on the left-right spectrum is largely irrelevant to the rest of us, it’s his non alignment with Putin or Trump that’s the good news.
https://msn.com/en-gb/money/other/100k-salary-but-still-struggling-the-reality-behind-the-high-earning-dream/ar-AA20K26n?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=69dcac6fd895465c8207b3b03e25988d&ei=20
Rather reminiscent of much of MAGA.
NEW THREAD.
Truth is, considering what Iran might do makes it a difficult and dangerous mission with the distinct possibility of significant losses.
What Israel might do in terms of bombing Iran or Lebanon has some influence on the extent of the Iranian risk.
What America is doing in terms of threats, what it might be asked to do in terms of naval activity in the straights would be threatening to turn any already dangerous allied mission that were running alongside into a clusterfuck on stilts. Why on earth would you just jump in rather than plan (and we may end up having to be involved in this anyway!) with the US as such an utterly reckless and mercurial "ally".
How the hell do you plan around Trump?
A right wing political chancer.
A reforming progressive he most certainly isn't.
Not bad, if so.