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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,145

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,857

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,366
    welshowl said:

    So five years on from my last posts what do I think?

    Starmer: playing a blinder on foreign policy, must’ve bitten his lip through so many times, but good for him. Like the rest of the sane world I suspect he’s keeping his head down and hoping for a Republican catastrophe in November.

    Reeves: rather clueless. The lead up to the budget was a masterclass in how to create uncertainty. She’s been dealt a bad had but is playing it badly.

    Ed Milliband: look I’m 100% behind getting us off fossil fuel , go for it. But as we’ve got go use it anyway for decades I simply do not get this hair shirtism of not drilling and using the N Sea if it’s viable. It’s nuts.

    Badanoch. I try to like her but she could probably pick a fight in a phone box and her take at the start of the Iran war was awful, really really poor.

    The Greens: student trots: completely clueless politics on envy seem to hate anyone over 45 that’s done ok.

    Reform: Putin and Trump sympathisers and a load of other unacceptable and unworkable stuff. Wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.

    Lib Dem’s. Stoke me as catholics in about 1580 hankering after the old religion over the water rather than looking forward ( I might be being harsh there to be fair but a bit less droning on about Customs Unions wouldn’t goamiss).

    Trump: words fail me. There’s just no language left. In addition I think the entire US constitution has been shown up, as has the US press for the lack of scrutiny on Biden ( was obvious he couldn’t hack it) and clearly also with the present admin.

    Putin’s Saturday morning bots. Always a laugh, but how Moscow thought they were going to be any use or not instantly weeded out is beyond me. Great compliment to PB that they tried.

    Sennedd: God knows : I’m probably spoil my paper in despair. The local Tories are worse than the national ones, Labour, despite Eluned Morgan being ok herself are clapped out and idealess after way too long in power, and Plaid are being all moderate with a good leader but their ultimate aim would lead to complete meltdown so again it’s barge pole time.

    Anyone I’ve got a good word for ? Yes Alexander Stubb: he's got a lot about him and it’s a pity he’s not from a bigger country.

    There: five years off my chest 😁

    Any predictions for how bad the few years before your next emergence will be?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,569
    edited April 10
    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    I had this discussion a while back and I think Boris Johnson counts with his stint as editor of The Spectator.

    Edit this discussion was in relation to Mark Carney.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133
    edited April 10

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.

    It’s not saying anything. It’s not an editorial piece. It’s reporting how the decision to go to war took place based on discussions with people involved.

    The authors are two journalists who are writing a book about Trump II, this came about as part of it.

    John Kerry has pretty much corroborated this was Israel’s approach with prior Presidents.

    You are free not to believe it. Because it’s convenient.

    I’ll leave it here for people to read.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-war.html

    Oh, and you swerved the reasonable request for proof about the claim Hezbollah use ambulances ?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,519

    welshowl said:

    So five years on from my last posts what do I think?

    Starmer: playing a blinder on foreign policy, must’ve bitten his lip through so many times, but good for him. Like the rest of the sane world I suspect he’s keeping his head down and hoping for a Republican catastrophe in November.

    Reeves: rather clueless. The lead up to the budget was a masterclass in how to create uncertainty. She’s been dealt a bad had but is playing it badly.

    Ed Milliband: look I’m 100% behind getting us off fossil fuel , go for it. But as we’ve got go use it anyway for decades I simply do not get this hair shirtism of not drilling and using the N Sea if it’s viable. It’s nuts.

    Badanoch. I try to like her but she could probably pick a fight in a phone box and her take at the start of the Iran war was awful, really really poor.

    The Greens: student trots: completely clueless politics on envy seem to hate anyone over 45 that’s done ok.

    Reform: Putin and Trump sympathisers and a load of other unacceptable and unworkable stuff. Wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.

    Lib Dem’s. Stoke me as catholics in about 1580 hankering after the old religion over the water rather than looking forward ( I might be being harsh there to be fair but a bit less droning on about Customs Unions wouldn’t goamiss).

    Trump: words fail me. There’s just no language left. In addition I think the entire US constitution has been shown up, as has the US press for the lack of scrutiny on Biden ( was obvious he couldn’t hack it) and clearly also with the present admin.

    Putin’s Saturday morning bots. Always a laugh, but how Moscow thought they were going to be any use or not instantly weeded out is beyond me. Great compliment to PB that they tried.

    Sennedd: God knows : I’m probably spoil my paper in despair. The local Tories are worse than the national ones, Labour, despite Eluned Morgan being ok herself are clapped out and idealess after way too long in power, and Plaid are being all moderate with a good leader but their ultimate aim would lead to complete meltdown so again it’s barge pole time.

    Anyone I’ve got a good word for ? Yes Alexander Stubb: he's got a lot about him and it’s a pity he’s not from a bigger country.

    There: five years off my chest 😁

    Any predictions for how bad the few years before your next emergence will be?
    Maybe it was my losing my password that’s created the past five years (!)
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.
    Just because Netanyahu says something doesn't make it true either!
    That NYT article is from two journalists writing a book on Trump II interviewing people involved as part of it.

    It’s not been disputed either.

    I suspect it’s pretty factual.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 1,139

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    I had this discussion a while back and I think Boris Johnson counts with his stint as editor of The Spectator.

    Edit this discussion was in relation to Mark Carney.
    Wellington, surely?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,569
    PJH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    I had this discussion a while back and I think Boris Johnson counts with his stint as editor of The Spectator.

    Edit this discussion was in relation to Mark Carney.
    Wellington, surely?
    Doesn’t count, he was a mere Field-Marshal, top of the tree would be Marshal, like Philippe Pétain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,569
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.

    It’s not saying anything. It’s not an editorial piece. It’s reporting how the decision to go to war took place based on discussions with people involved.

    The authors are two journalists who are writing a book about Trump II, this came about as part of it.

    John Kerry has pretty much corroborated this was Israel’s approach with prior Presidents.

    You are free not to believe it. Because it’s convenient.

    I’ll leave it here for people to read.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-war.html

    Oh, and you swerved the reasonable request for proof about the claim Hezbollah use ambulances ?
    Lest we forget Israel has a history about lying about ambulances

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/06/israeli-military-admits-initial-account-of-palestinian-medics-killing-was-mistaken
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,208

    Comments are working again !!!

    Has anyone else not been able to see comments for a few days ?

    Yes, me.

    If it helps for future reference, I got them back yesterday, by copying the link to Vanilla on the error message and posting to google, after which they appeared and then when I logged in to PB normally they were then there too.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949

    Nigelb said:

    I hadn't realised former Senator Ben Sasse was dying.
    He has done an interview with the NYT about his cancer - stage 4 pancreatic, multiply metastasised.

    How Ben Sasse Is Living Now That He Is Dying
    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/09/opinion/ben-sasse-death-pancreatic-cancer.html
    ..Sasse: There’s a company in Silicon Valley called Revolution Medicines, and they have a drug called daraxonrasib, and that’s my drug. I’m able to take it orally, as of now. So, I don’t have an infusion port right now.
    I take it orally, but it’s a nasty drug. It causes crazy stuff like my body can’t grow skin and so I bleed all out of a whole bunch of parts of me that shouldn’t be bleeding.

    Douthat: Yeah. You look terrible.

    Sasse: Thank you.

    Douthat: How do you feel?

    Sasse: I feel better than I deserve...

    Pancreatic cancer is very, very nasty. And frequently quickly fatal. Sympathies.
    5 year survival rate less than 5% iirc
    Most pancreatic cancer is very nasty, although a small subset are neuroendocrine tumours, like Steve Jobs had, and these are much more treatable (unless you ignore all your doctors’ advice, as Steve Jobs did).
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,813

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Isle of Thanet.

    Pretty core area for Reform I would have thought given Farage's links to Kent.

    I would appear that "Stop Reform" is a pretty compelling message even here, certainly more than "Stop the Greens". I believe Polanski had a rally there and imagine that must have given them momentum.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Clearly wisdom doesn't always come with age.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949
    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    Eisenhower in the US?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,867

    PJH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    I had this discussion a while back and I think Boris Johnson counts with his stint as editor of The Spectator.

    Edit this discussion was in relation to Mark Carney.
    Wellington, surely?
    Doesn’t count, he was a mere Field-Marshal, top of the tree would be Marshal, like Philippe Pétain.
    WIlson's academic career might be the closest- but again, not quite close enough.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.
    Just because Netanyahu says something doesn't make it true either!
    Yes, that’s what I said.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.

    It’s not saying anything. It’s not an editorial piece. It’s reporting how the decision to go to war took place based on discussions with people involved.

    The authors are two journalists who are writing a book about Trump II, this came about as part of it.

    John Kerry has pretty much corroborated this was Israel’s approach with prior Presidents.

    You are free not to believe it. Because it’s convenient.

    I’ll leave it here for people to read.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-war.html

    Oh, and you swerved the reasonable request for proof about the claim Hezbollah use ambulances ?
    It’s not my job to provide proof. I already used the term “allegedly”. That’s a level of nuance which is missing most of the time from those who do nothing but criticise Israel.

    In relation to the NYT, the decision to go to war has nothing to do with whether Hezbollah or Hamas also commit war crimes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223
    I think a pre-election pact and a 'joint ticket' would be foolish. The Tories and Reform need to be rivals, then if they have the numbers for a parliamentary majority, form some kind of coaliton. Do do so before the election would be seen as opportunistic electioneering, to do so afterwards will be seen as absolutely necessary by all right-thinking people, to prevent the complete economic and social breakdown that a progressive coalition would bring.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,145

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Clearly wisdom doesn't always come with age.
    It does and why I am implacably opposed to any deal with the obnoxious little englander
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775

    PJH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    I had this discussion a while back and I think Boris Johnson counts with his stint as editor of The Spectator.

    Edit this discussion was in relation to Mark Carney.
    Wellington, surely?
    Doesn’t count, he was a mere Field-Marshal, top of the tree would be Marshal, like Philippe Pétain.
    Marshal is the French rank.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Yeah, a party of anti-Semitic Trots supporting a wealth tax, reparations, rent caps, open borders no person is illegal and other crackpot policies.

    You people need to be careful what you wish for.

    The Greens are to the left what Reform are to the right.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775
    edited April 10

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Clearly wisdom doesn't always come with age.
    Yep, Nigel's getting older, isn't he?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,569

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    Eisenhower in the US?
    Ulysses S. Grant too.

    You could add Ronald Reagan as President of the Screen Actors Guild.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.

    It’s not saying anything. It’s not an editorial piece. It’s reporting how the decision to go to war took place based on discussions with people involved.

    The authors are two journalists who are writing a book about Trump II, this came about as part of it.

    John Kerry has pretty much corroborated this was Israel’s approach with prior Presidents.

    You are free not to believe it. Because it’s convenient.

    I’ll leave it here for people to read.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-war.html

    Oh, and you swerved the reasonable request for proof about the claim Hezbollah use ambulances ?
    It’s not my job to provide proof. I already used the term “allegedly”. That’s a level of nuance which is missing most of the time from those who do nothing but criticise Israel.

    In relation to the NYT, the decision to go to war has nothing to do with whether Hezbollah or Hamas also commit war crimes.
    No, it was raised in relation to Trusting what the Israeli regime said or taking what they say at face value.

    Trump did, he’s now fucked as a consequence. Only pity is so are the rest of us.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Isle of Thanet.

    Pretty core area for Reform I would have thought given Farage's links to Kent.

    I would appear that "Stop Reform" is a pretty compelling message even here, certainly more than "Stop the Greens". I believe Polanski had a rally there and imagine that must have given them momentum.

    An apt choice of last word.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    Because they've murdered so many thousands of people over the decades.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,655

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    Well, yes. But if Israel hadn't done the invasion thing, Hezbollah wouldn't have needed to hide behind ambulances. Carelessly killing Lebanese civilians is also a war crime and Israel is doing a lot more of it, however bad Hezbollah might be.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,223

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Clearly wisdom doesn't always come with age.
    It does and why I am implacably opposed to any deal with the obnoxious little englander
    The Greens have a policy of legalising all hard drugs, completely open borders, and leaving NATO. That's before you even start on their economic policies.

    Any right-thinking person, even a very strong centrist, would conclude that a bloody nose for Farage, whilst enjoyable, isn't worth the complete economic and social destruction that would ensue if the Greens' policies were enacted.

    I would hope that in the sanctity of the polling booth, better instincts would prevail.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,145
    Taz said:

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Yeah, a party of anti-Semitic Trots supporting a wealth tax, reparations, rent caps, open borders no person is illegal and other crackpot policies.

    You people need to be careful what you wish for.

    The Greens are to the left what Reform are to the right.
    Greens will not be in government - Farage may well be so tactical voting is good
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,449

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Two cheeks of the same arse.

    May's results are going to be unprecedented.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    FF43 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    Well, yes. But if Israel hadn't done the invasion thing, Hezbollah wouldn't have needed to hide behind ambulances. Carelessly killing Lebanese civilians is also a war crime and Israel is doing a lot more of it, however bad Hezbollah might be.
    The whataboutism is off the charts
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    Because they've murdered so many thousands of people over the decades.
    As would Hezbollah if they had the chance.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,951

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    Eisenhower in the US?
    Ulysses S. Grant too.

    You could add Ronald Reagan as President of the Screen Actors Guild.
    If we are going international Berlusconi as Bond baddie media mogul, and Zelensky not just as favourite sitcom actor but also Strictly dance champ too.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,145

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Clearly wisdom doesn't always come with age.
    It does and why I am implacably opposed to any deal with the obnoxious little englander
    The Greens have a policy of legalising all hard drugs, completely open borders, and leaving NATO. That's before you even start on their economic policies.

    Any right-thinking person, even a very strong centrist, would conclude that a bloody nose for Farage, whilst enjoyable, isn't worth the complete economic and social destruction that would ensue if the Greens' policies were enacted.

    I would hope that in the sanctity of the polling booth, better instincts would prevail.
    Farage and Polanski are equally obnoxious but as I have said, the greens will not be in government, Farage could be so the more he loses and the narrative changes the better
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775

    FF43 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    Well, yes. But if Israel hadn't done the invasion thing, Hezbollah wouldn't have needed to hide behind ambulances. Carelessly killing Lebanese civilians is also a war crime and Israel is doing a lot more of it, however bad Hezbollah might be.
    The whataboutism is off the charts
    .
    Israel has murdered far more people than Hezbollah.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    There is absolutely no independent validation for this accusation. Can't believe a word from Israel sadly.
    You guys are so far down the rabbit hole it’s ridiculous. Anti-Israeli propaganda is now ubiquitous in western media and is simply swallowed without critical thought. That doesn’t mean it’s all wrong but good grief.
    So where is the proof ? Brixian has said no proof. If there is evidence of this it must exist. Just taking Bibi at his word is not something a rational person would do. Especially after the NYT piece this week.
    Just because the NYT says something doesn’t mean it’s true either.

    It’s not saying anything. It’s not an editorial piece. It’s reporting how the decision to go to war took place based on discussions with people involved.

    The authors are two journalists who are writing a book about Trump II, this came about as part of it.

    John Kerry has pretty much corroborated this was Israel’s approach with prior Presidents.

    You are free not to believe it. Because it’s convenient.

    I’ll leave it here for people to read.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/07/us/politics/trump-iran-war.html

    Oh, and you swerved the reasonable request for proof about the claim Hezbollah use ambulances ?
    It’s not my job to provide proof. I already used the term “allegedly”. That’s a level of nuance which is missing most of the time from those who do nothing but criticise Israel.

    In relation to the NYT, the decision to go to war has nothing to do with whether Hezbollah or Hamas also commit war crimes.
    No, it was raised in relation to Trusting what the Israeli regime said or taking what they say at face value.

    Trump did, he’s now fucked as a consequence. Only pity is so are the rest of us.
    Yeah, agreed, but that doesn’t mean everything is a lie. It’s an objective fact that Hezbollah attacks Israel with rockets. Nobody seems to be able to coherently explain how Israel is supposed to deal with that without the guise of “well they shouldn’t be there in the first place” which is basically a Hamas and Hezbollah talking point - that the killing will only stop when Israel is wiped off the map.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,208
    Nigelb said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    You just do't get it do you Bart.

    As I said the other day, you have had your regime change. You replaced a hardline theocratic regime that was willing to negitiate with a hardline military regime that isn't.

    The US were very unlikely to achieve their war aims without actually putting people on the ground in Iran and they don't have the support in Congress or in the wider public to do that. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see this was the most likely outcome of this little US/Israeli adventure which is why anyone with any sense opposed it from the start.
    We may not always agree Richard but we’ve been lock-step in opposing this stupid war ever since day one. It was OBVIOUS to anyone with a pulse it was going to be a disaster.

    Anyone who couldn’t see that needs their judgment seriously called into question. Forget that Iran is a stupid country to get involved in, forget all the mistakes in Iraq and Afghanistan, it was led by TRUMP.
    Technically, it was led by Netanyahu who persuaded Trump to act to his will. The distinction matters because it is Netanyahu who is now actively trying to prolong the war by frustrating Trump's attempt to get out of the hole he was persuaded to dig.

    So Israel is now acting as the catalyst threatening the UK's economic security, together with that of most of the rest of the world. It's no longer a question of just judging Israel in moral terms by its utterly vile conduct in Gaza. Now thanks to a war which Israel led and seeks to perpetuate every UK motorist is paying £20 more at the pump every time they fill up. Real and massive economic consequences for the UK. This all thanks to a nation to which the UK continues to grant most favourable trading nation status.

    The UK Government's response to date? Still tut-tutting, expressing opinions that Israel really should be desisting, totally ignored as usual. Actions, not words are what matters, Israel knows that and almost treats words of condemnation alone as a green light to carry on regardless because it knows that words are an alternative to doing anything else.

    With even Trump reportedly losing patience with Netanyahu, Starmer doesn't even have the excuse that a change from UK inaction would threaten UK-US relations.
    What did you expect either the UK or Europe to do yesterday, in this context ?
    Both our government, and EU leaders condemned Netenyahu's massive bombing of Beirut, and said quite clearly that it was sabotaging the ceasefire. In practical terms, there is little either can do to intervene directly.
    Specifically, in response to the threat to the UK's economic security:
    1. There is a trade agreement in place between the UK and Israel which should be suspended immediately.
    2. Arms exports to Israel should be suspended, and activities of Israeli owned arms firms in the UK (i.e. Elbit) should be halted.
    3. The UK does its best to publically encourage other countries to take similar action.
    Initially all short term measures, capable of being quickly reversed should Israel's actions change convincingly.
    But
    4. Also make the public threat of a further step should Netanyahu continue regardless, namely to impose full blown economic sanctions on Israel on a par with those in place on Russia.

    The economic impact of the UK acting alone would be limited, but we could act as a catalyst for other countries to follow suit. The real leverage is the impact on Israeli public opinion of seeing their country becoming increasingly isolated as former allies abandon it, even temporarily. That would be what would give Netanyahu pause for thought, not any minor economic impact arising from the UK's actions alone.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,523
    edited April 10

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Isle of Thanet.

    Pretty core area for Reform I would have thought given Farage's links to Kent.

    I would appear that "Stop Reform" is a pretty compelling message even here, certainly more than "Stop the Greens". I believe Polanski had a rally there and imagine that must have given them momentum.

    Deleted wrong comment
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    edited April 10

    FF43 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    Well, yes. But if Israel hadn't done the invasion thing, Hezbollah wouldn't have needed to hide behind ambulances. Carelessly killing Lebanese civilians is also a war crime and Israel is doing a lot more of it, however bad Hezbollah might be.
    The whataboutism is off the charts
    .
    Israel has murdered far more people than Hezbollah.
    That is of no relevance to whether Hezbollah are also committed war crimes. People die in war. If a terror group was lobbing rockets at the UK we would kill people in response to.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    Eisenhower in the US?
    Ulysses S. Grant too.

    You could add Ronald Reagan as President of the Screen Actors Guild.
    FAKE NEWS! Everyone knows it's the Film Actors' Guild! (Hat-tip Team America)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,086
    edited April 10
    Taz said:

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Yeah, a party of anti-Semitic Trots supporting a wealth tax, reparations, rent caps, open borders no person is illegal and other crackpot policies.

    You people need to be careful what you wish for.

    The Greens are to the left what Reform are to the right.
    I agree, and I’m depressed by Green popular support.

    But Reform are Putin-loving, Trump-sucking arseholes, so when push comes to shove, one would prefer Green.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    Eisenhower in the US?
    Ulysses S. Grant too.

    You could add Ronald Reagan as President of the Screen Actors Guild.
    Grant was also reputed the finest horseman of his generation. And wrote his own biography while dying of cancer.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,687
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    So five years on from my last posts what do I think?

    Starmer: playing a blinder on foreign policy, must’ve bitten his lip through so many times, but good for him. Like the rest of the sane world I suspect he’s keeping his head down and hoping for a Republican catastrophe in November.

    Reeves: rather clueless. The lead up to the budget was a masterclass in how to create uncertainty. She’s been dealt a bad had but is playing it badly.

    Ed Milliband: look I’m 100% behind getting us off fossil fuel , go for it. But as we’ve got go use it anyway for decades I simply do not get this hair shirtism of not drilling and using the N Sea if it’s viable. It’s nuts.

    Badanoch. I try to like her but she could probably pick a fight in a phone box and her take at the start of the Iran war was awful, really really poor.

    The Greens: student trots: completely clueless politics on envy seem to hate anyone over 45 that’s done ok.

    Reform: Putin and Trump sympathisers and a load of other unacceptable and unworkable stuff. Wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.

    Lib Dem’s. Stoke me as catholics in about 1580 hankering after the old religion over the water rather than looking forward ( I might be being harsh there to be fair but a bit less droning on about Customs Unions wouldn’t goamiss).

    Trump: words fail me. There’s just no language left. In addition I think the entire US constitution has been shown up, as has the US press for the lack of scrutiny on Biden ( was obvious he couldn’t hack it) and clearly also with the present admin.

    Putin’s Saturday morning bots. Always a laugh, but how Moscow thought they were going to be any use or not instantly weeded out is beyond me. Great compliment to PB that they tried.

    Sennedd: God knows : I’m probably spoil my paper in despair. The local Tories are worse than the national ones, Labour, despite Eluned Morgan being ok herself are clapped out and idealess after way too long in power, and Plaid are being all moderate with a good leader but their ultimate aim would lead to complete meltdown so again it’s barge pole time.

    Anyone I’ve got a good word for ? Yes Alexander Stubb: he's got a lot about him and it’s a pity he’s not from a bigger country.

    There: five years off my chest 😁

    Any predictions for how bad the few years before your next emergence will be?
    Maybe it was my losing my password that’s created the past five years (!)
    Welcome back!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,523

    Comments are working again !!!

    Has anyone else not been able to see comments for a few days ?

    Yes, me.

    If it helps for future reference, I got them back yesterday, by copying the link to Vanilla on the error message and posting to google, after which they appeared and then when I logged in to PB normally they were then there too.

    I had the same issue and the same solution.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,086

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,655

    FF43 said:

    It is absolutely criminally insane that there is a "ceasefire" that has left Hormuz closed.

    What is the frigging point?

    Unless Hormuz is reopened in full, there should be no ceasefire and Iranian regime and military targets like IRGC facilities, petrochemical industry and energy targets should be wiped out, until there is regime change and the new regime reopens Hormuz.

    Israel is still murdering Lebanese civilians, hence no ceasefire.
    Civilians and/or Hezbollah operatives. Hezbollah is allegedly using ambulances as military vehicles which is, you guessed it, a war crime.
    Well, yes. But if Israel hadn't done the invasion thing, Hezbollah wouldn't have needed to hide behind ambulances. Carelessly killing Lebanese civilians is also a war crime and Israel is doing a lot more of it, however bad Hezbollah might be.
    The whataboutism is off the charts
    I challenge that. If invaders are where they shouldn't be, doing stuff they shouldn't be doing, that is a context for the bad stuff the other lot are doing, it doesn't justify it but the invaders have a responsibility. I mean just look at the aerial pictures of villages in South Lebanon. Completely flattened. Even worse than Ukraine actually.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,951

    Taz said:

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Yeah, a party of anti-Semitic Trots supporting a wealth tax, reparations, rent caps, open borders no person is illegal and other crackpot policies.

    You people need to be careful what you wish for.

    The Greens are to the left what Reform are to the right.
    I agree, and I’m depressed by Green popular support.

    But Reform are Putin-loving, Trump-sucking arseholes, so when push comes to shove, one would prefer Green.
    Some say the Greens are no longer green enough but I do expect they will live up to their name with a mix of naivety, freshness, inexperience and immaturity.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    Well, it should stop killing people by the thousand. Seems you are almost as much of a racist as young Barty Roberts!
  • OT - Nostalgia for the 2019 pact? Except that wasn't a pact - one party withdrew from the majority of seats. Which of the two parties does anyone think will agree to that? Even if Reform folded up their tents (and it would have to be them) hiow many of their voters would vote for the Cons rather than Rupert?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631
    SE Asia will probably own the next generation of computing manufacturing, too.

    https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/48b-market-for-photonic-integrated-circuit-based-transceivers-by-2036/34583
    ..The photonic revolution in datacom is spurring the development of an entirely new ecosystem. For optical transceivers, this shift has been driven by an insatiable demand for volume and lower margins. Chinese players, such as Eoptolink, adopt a strategy of buying components (such as lasers) from leading global suppliers and integrating and packaging the transceivers at very low margin but enormous volume.

    By contrast, American companies like Lumentum and Coherent are much more vertically integrated, controlling the supply chain from Indium Phosphide (InP) epitaxy to final product assembly. However, all of these companies have identified Southeast Asia as a key manufacturing hub, with Chinese players seeking to avoid potential American tariffs and US players seeking lower manufacturing costs. IDTechEx's report contains extensive supply chain analysis, from raw materials all the way through to finished devices..

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    The IRA killed plenty of people, but the UK never bombed Dublin or invaded the Republic. We’re using the same standards that we applied ourselves.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,516
    Sandpit said:

    The data centre would have been built, and eventually operated by someone.

    Fujitsu ended up with a huge data centre that was built by somebody else at the height of the dot com bubble, and they got it for sweeties
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    The IRA killed plenty of people, but the UK never bombed Dublin or invaded the Republic. We’re using the same standards that we applied ourselves.
    Well that comment shows a complete ignorance of history. Ask the Northern Irish whether the British response to republican terrorism was “proportionate”. Good grief.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631
    edited April 10

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Netenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    edited April 10

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    The IRA killed plenty of people, but the UK never bombed Dublin or invaded the Republic. We’re using the same standards that we applied ourselves.
    Well that comment shows a complete ignorance of history. Ask the Northern Irish whether the British response to republican terrorism was “proportionate”. Good grief.
    So, are you arguing that British actions were disproportionate? Yet Israel is doing far more, so are you conceding that Israel is definitely acting disproportionately?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775
    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    Former PMs Menachim Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were definitely terrorists.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    The IRA killed plenty of people, but the UK never bombed Dublin or invaded the Republic. We’re using the same standards that we applied ourselves.
    Well that comment shows a complete ignorance of history. Ask the Northern Irish whether the British response to republican terrorism was “proportionate”. Good grief.
    So, are you arguing that British actions were disproportionate? Yet Israel is doing far more, so are you conceding that Israel is definitely acting disproportionately?
    I never claimed they weren’t acting disproportionately, I just find it laughable that it matters. Nation states have never acted “proportionally” in security matters because it’s not politically acceptable.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,949

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
    Correct, Sunil simply posts Hezbollah talking points without source.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    You can be put in jail for wearing a t-shirt supporting Hamas, do the same for Israel or the IDF and you’ll be put on a Labour candidate list.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Indeed.
    https://www.972mag.com/israelis-war-crimes-gaza-taboo/
    ..Last week, Israeli opposition leader Yair Golan made international headlines when he declared in an interview on Israeli public radio that “a sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not aim to expel a population.”..
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,199
    Looks like the Irish government is going to cave to the fuel protesters in Ireland and cut taxes on fuel again. I'd guess there's going to have to be some direct subsidy for farmers, because they don't pay tax on their fuel anyway.

    It's completely pointless, and I don't see how it's going to get the price of diesel back below €2, so you'd expect the protests will restart in a week or two when it's become obvious the prices are still high.

    Both sides are a complete bunch of eejits.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,086

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    I’ve stopped following this board as closely as I once did, but I don’t really recognise that portrait.

    There’s one or two extremists on here - but so far as I can tell they are like Bart, who seems to see the world in absurd binaries where it’s Israel who can do no wrong.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Indeed.
    https://www.972mag.com/israelis-war-crimes-gaza-taboo/
    ..Last week, Israeli opposition leader Yair Golan made international headlines when he declared in an interview on Israeli public radio that “a sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not aim to expel a population.”..
    Well he’s not wrong, is he? But his party is nowhere in the polls which demonstrates that proportion responses to violence are not politically viable.

    It’s so easy to criticise from the safety of the UK but if we were all living under threat of rocket attacks from a terror organisation you can be certain that the jingoism would start and we’d elect a hardline government promising to respond hard.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
    Correct, Sunil simply posts Hezbollah talking points without source.
    What Hezbollah talking points?

    You deny Israel has murdered thousands in Gaza, the West Bank, and now in Lebanon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,526

    PJH said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the Reform header:


    Glen O'Hara‬
    @gsoh31.bsky.social‬

    Reform UK is a one shot. They'll either fall short in 2029 and Farage will do something else, or they'll get into office (maybe way short of a majority), smash everything, have their own civil war and collapse. The next step would likely be parties emerging to their Right getting more powerful.

    https://bsky.app/profile/gsoh31.bsky.social/post/3mj4yus5mk22b

    Not sure that is correct. They could come up short in 2029 and succeed 2033. If they get into power they will collapse but we could end up with greens or the centrists back rather than extreme right.
    The elephant in the room is that Nigel's not getting any younger, and this isn't America.

    He's 62 now, older than Cameron, only a year younger than Starmer. He'll be 65 in 2029- that's how old Maggie was when she left office. Does he really want to spend his late sixties being PM? I'm sure he likes it as an abstract concept, but does he really want all that work (harder work than he has done in his life) at that age?

    (It's the same reason that I'm sure that, although he can't say it, SKS has pencilled in a 2027/8 retirement. In indelible pencil.)
    Interesting that PMs in the first half of the 20th century were significantly older when they came to power than since then.

    The oldest of course was Churchill in his second term at almost 77.

    Average age of PM on assuming office (including second stints)


    Balfour - Churchill 2 : 62
    Eden - Thatcher : 57
    Major - Starmer : 50

    Starmer is the oldest PM at time of first assuming office since Callaghan
    Is Starmer the first PM to have made it to the top of two professions? (top of the legal profession debatable, but DPP is the top of that bit of it).
    I had this discussion a while back and I think Boris Johnson counts with his stint as editor of The Spectator.

    Edit this discussion was in relation to Mark Carney.
    Wellington, surely?
    Doesn’t count, he was a mere Field-Marshal, top of the tree would be Marshal, like Philippe Pétain.
    Top of the U.K. military. Also, top of the non-Royal U.K. aristocracy.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,032

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
    Correct, Sunil simply posts Hezbollah talking points without source.
    What Hezbollah talking points?

    You deny Israel has murdered thousands in Gaza, the West Bank, and now in Lebanon?
    To be frank I have no idea how many are civilians and how many are combatants and I am pretty sure you don’t know either.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,526

    Looks like the Irish government is going to cave to the fuel protesters in Ireland and cut taxes on fuel again. I'd guess there's going to have to be some direct subsidy for farmers, because they don't pay tax on their fuel anyway.

    It's completely pointless, and I don't see how it's going to get the price of diesel back below €2, so you'd expect the protests will restart in a week or two when it's become obvious the prices are still high.

    Both sides are a complete bunch of eejits.

    Looks like the Irish government is going to cave to the fuel protesters in Ireland and cut taxes on fuel again. I'd guess there's going to have to be some direct subsidy for farmers, because they don't pay tax on their fuel anyway.

    It's completely pointless, and I don't see how it's going to get the price of diesel back below €2, so you'd expect the protests will restart in a week or two when it's become obvious the prices are still high.

    Both sides are a complete bunch of eejits.

    In a number of poorer countries, fuel is actively subsidised.

    Because fuel = food prices, quite often. And when the food prices rise, the riots begin. Then the starving.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775
    edited April 10

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    The IRA killed plenty of people, but the UK never bombed Dublin or invaded the Republic. We’re using the same standards that we applied ourselves.
    Well that comment shows a complete ignorance of history. Ask the Northern Irish whether the British response to republican terrorism was “proportionate”. Good grief.
    So, are you arguing that British actions were disproportionate? Yet Israel is doing far more, so are you conceding that Israel is definitely acting disproportionately?
    If Gallowgate were in charge of the response to PIRA, he would flattened all ofDerry and West Belfast!
  • Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
    Correct, Sunil simply posts Hezbollah talking points without source.
    What Hezbollah talking points?

    You deny Israel has murdered thousands in Gaza, the West Bank, and now in Lebanon?
    Yes.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 23,086

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Indeed.
    https://www.972mag.com/israelis-war-crimes-gaza-taboo/
    ..Last week, Israeli opposition leader Yair Golan made international headlines when he declared in an interview on Israeli public radio that “a sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not aim to expel a population.”..
    Well he’s not wrong, is he? But his party is nowhere in the polls which demonstrates that proportion responses to violence are not politically viable.

    It’s so easy to criticise from the safety of the UK but if we were all living under threat of rocket attacks from a terror organisation you can be certain that the jingoism would start and we’d elect a hardline government promising to respond hard.
    This is true.

    But at core, Western opinion is that Israel no longer has justice on its side. If Israel would stop rolling out apartheid like policy internally and stop settling the West Bank aggressively, then it would garner more sympathy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Green gain from Reform in Yesterdays Kent CC by election in Cliftonville

    Grn 2,068 (39%) (+28)
    Ref 1,767 (33%) (-7)
    Con 811 (15%) (-5)
    Lab 557 (10%) (-12)
    Ind 68 (1%)
    LD 63 (1%) (-2)

    Good

    Anybody but Farage
    Clearly wisdom doesn't always come with age.
    It does and why I am implacably opposed to any deal with the obnoxious little englander
    The Greens have a policy of legalising all hard drugs, completely open borders, and leaving NATO. That's before you even start on their economic policies.

    Any right-thinking person, even a very strong centrist, would conclude that a bloody nose for Farage, whilst enjoyable, isn't worth the complete economic and social destruction that would ensue if the Greens' policies were enacted.

    I would hope that in the sanctity of the polling booth, better instincts would prevail.
    I find it mad that, purely to ‘own’ Reform supporters of the three mainstream parties would coalesce around them and even support them.

    The Labour party spent years trying to purge these people from the Party only to jump back into bed with them. Tacitly.

    The Lib Dem’s are unprincipled cynical opportunists so you’d expect no more.

    The Greens could very easily end up in a coalition with Lab and the Lib Dem’s at the next election.

    Heaven help us.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,463

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
    Correct, Sunil simply posts Hezbollah talking points without source.
    What Hezbollah talking points?

    You deny Israel has murdered thousands in Gaza, the West Bank, and now in Lebanon?
    To be frank I have no idea how many are civilians and how many are combatants and I am pretty sure you don’t know either.
    We have a decent idea how many are women and children.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,526

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    The IRA killed plenty of people, but the UK never bombed Dublin or invaded the Republic. We’re using the same standards that we applied ourselves.
    Well that comment shows a complete ignorance of history. Ask the Northern Irish whether the British response to republican terrorism was “proportionate”. Good grief.
    So, are you arguing that British actions were disproportionate? Yet Israel is doing far more, so are you conceding that Israel is definitely acting disproportionately?
    There’s an ongoing debate and legal actions about the Troubles.

    The UK government treated the Men Of Violence as sub-national armed groups, some of the time, rather than a purely civilian law enforcement problem.

    So the infiltrated, ran agents, even used those agents to violently shape policy.

    The Peace Process was as much because the opposition to it died as anything else. Died as in literally died. Often killed by their own side. Because they were claimed to be British Agents. Accused by people who turned out to be British Agents themselves.

    All arguably legal in an armed conflict. Or illegal.

    But there wasn’t a wholesale disregard for the civilian population. Or social norms. Hell, convicted PIRA terrorists continued to receive unemployment benefit from the U.K. government.
  • Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    No it isn’t because my point is that Israel gets criticised but nobody else does. Everything Israel says is a lie and everything Hamas or Hezbollah says is true. The hypocrisy stinks.
    Show me a comment where someone has uncritically quoted something Hezbollah said. I don’t think anyone here is claiming that Hezbollah, or Hamas, are reliable sources.
    Read this thread. I share evidence of Hezbollah war crimes and @Sunil_Prasannan et al respond with “well they shouldn’t kill so many people”

    In fact a lot of evidence of Israel war crimes are just from random people tweeting and they are taken as read.
    Sunil was not saying Hezbollah are a reliable source.

    Random people tweeting are often unreliable, but again that doesn’t show anyone claiming Hezbollah are a reliable source.
    Correct, Sunil simply posts Hezbollah talking points without source.
    What Hezbollah talking points?

    You deny Israel has murdered thousands in Gaza, the West Bank, and now in Lebanon?
    To be frank I have no idea how many are civilians and how many are combatants and I am pretty sure you don’t know either.
    We have a decent idea how many are women and children.
    Women can be combatants and collateral damage is not murder.

    There is a difference between deaths and murder.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Also worth bearing in mind Iran, as I did comment the other day, are also clearly committing war crimes in their actions.

    They get less condemnation but that’s probably as an antidote here to Barts continual spamming of the group with endless pro-Israel happy clappy guff mitigating any acts against them.

    You cannot justify attacking Dubai or Doha airport. Desalination plants, energy infrastructure or civilian buildings.
  • The net migration figures are released soon
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775



    Both sides are a complete bunch of eejits.

    Are we talking about Israel and Hezbollah? 🤣
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Indeed.
    https://www.972mag.com/israelis-war-crimes-gaza-taboo/
    ..Last week, Israeli opposition leader Yair Golan made international headlines when he declared in an interview on Israeli public radio that “a sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not aim to expel a population.”..
    Well he’s not wrong, is he? But his party is nowhere in the polls which demonstrates that proportion responses to violence are not politically viable.

    It’s so easy to criticise from the safety of the UK but if we were all living under threat of rocket attacks from a terror organisation you can be certain that the jingoism would start and we’d elect a hardline government promising to respond hard.
    This is true.

    But at core, Western opinion is that Israel no longer has justice on its side. If Israel would stop rolling out apartheid like policy internally and stop settling the West Bank aggressively, then it would garner more sympathy.
    With even more settlements announced this week.

    They may as well just go,the whole hog and annexe the West Bank and get it over and done with. They’re doing it by stealth anyway.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,579

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    That absolutely isn't true. The issue is Islamists and their fellow travellers in the west who want to wipe Israel off the map.
  • Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Also worth bearing in mind Iran, as I did comment the other day, are also clearly committing war crimes in their actions.

    They get less condemnation but that’s probably as an antidote here to Barts continual spamming of the group with endless pro-Israel happy clappy guff mitigating any acts against them.

    You cannot justify attacking Dubai or Doha airport. Desalination plants, energy infrastructure or civilian buildings.
    Continual spamming? I have made about 3 or 4 posts in past 72 hours on the topic.

    And I am outnumbered here about 20:1. My posts are very much a minority, with some here seeming to think minority viewpoints are illegitimate or verboten.
  • Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    Former PMs Menachim Begin and Yitzhak Shamir were definitely terrorists.
    Just reminded me of this gem in a recent LRB re Yitzhak Shamir: “When Shamir met the UN official Brian Urquhart for the first time [as foreign minister], he greeted him warmly. ‘I am so happy to meet you,’ he said. ‘I have never dealt with the UN before.’ ‘Oh, but you have, foreign minister,’ Urquhart replied. ‘You dealt with Count Bernadotte, did you not?’

    The Count was a Swede who when working for the UN penned a peace plan that the organisation that Shamir was involved in did not like. Shamir ordered the Count dead and he was shot in 48.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,463
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Also worth bearing in mind Iran, as I did comment the other day, are also clearly committing war crimes in their actions.

    They get less condemnation but that’s probably as an antidote here to Barts continual spamming of the group with endless pro-Israel happy clappy guff mitigating any acts against them.

    You cannot justify attacking Dubai or Doha airport. Desalination plants, energy infrastructure or civilian buildings.
    Of course, the regime are utter scumbags. But this is a site for arguing with people and who is going to take the pro-Tehran line?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,775
    MaxPB said:

    Here’s a video of Hezbollah allegedly firing rockets from a school: https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/2042578503057408124?s=46

    Now maybe it’s fake. Maybe it’s not a school. But it’s also possible it is true. What is Israel supposed to do about that? Nothing? Ignoring rocket fire wouldn’t be politically acceptable in the UK nor is it in Israel.

    As usual, Israel is held to a standard far higher than any other nation on earth.

    2 civilians have been killed in Israel by Hezbollah. The Israeli response could be proportional to the threat rather than displacing over a million people.
    That is western liberal privilege talking. Iran doesn’t care how “proportionate” their response is when they try to fly drones into Tel Aviv apartment blocks following Israeli attacks. The same is true of every nation at war.

    As per, Israel are held to a far higher standard.
    This is, essentially, whataboutery.
    The issue is Israel, not anyone else.
    That absolutely isn't true. The issue is Islamists and their fellow travellers in the west who want to wipe Israel off the map.
    Zionists have believed in ethnic cleansing (or "transfer" as they euphemistically call it) since the 19th century.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,133

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Also worth bearing in mind Iran, as I did comment the other day, are also clearly committing war crimes in their actions.

    They get less condemnation but that’s probably as an antidote here to Barts continual spamming of the group with endless pro-Israel happy clappy guff mitigating any acts against them.

    You cannot justify attacking Dubai or Doha airport. Desalination plants, energy infrastructure or civilian buildings.
    Continual spamming? I have made about 3 or 4 posts in past 72 hours on the topic.

    And I am outnumbered here about 20:1. My posts are very much a minority, with some here seeming to think minority viewpoints are illegitimate or verboten.
    You’ve made 4 posts on it today 😂
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Indeed.
    https://www.972mag.com/israelis-war-crimes-gaza-taboo/
    ..Last week, Israeli opposition leader Yair Golan made international headlines when he declared in an interview on Israeli public radio that “a sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not aim to expel a population.”..
    Well he’s not wrong, is he? But his party is nowhere in the polls which demonstrates that proportion responses to violence are not politically viable.

    It’s so easy to criticise from the safety of the UK but if we were all living under threat of rocket attacks from a terror organisation you can be certain that the jingoism would start and we’d elect a hardline government promising to respond hard.
    This is true.

    But at core, Western opinion is that Israel no longer has justice on its side. If Israel would stop rolling out apartheid like policy internally and stop settling the West Bank aggressively, then it would garner more sympathy.
    One example of that is the collapse of public support for Israel in the US, with 60% of those polled viewing Israel unfavourably.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/insight/pew-poll-shows-u-s-support-for-israel-hits-record-ulow/gm-GM0A3F80C4

    That's a reversal almost unthinkable even a decade back.

    Netenyahu and Trump have been disastrous for the nation, IMO.
    In some respects Israel is more powerful than it has ever been, but I don't think its future existence has been more precarious since at least the 1970s.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Are Israel committing war crimes? Almost certainly yes. Are the other actors also committing war crimes? Again, almost certainly yes.

    But Israel gets criticised and Hamas and Hezbollah get excused and twas forever thus.

    Islamism anti-semitism has swamped western media.

    Israel is a nation state; Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation.

    Are you saying that Neyenyahu's government should now be judged as a terrorist organisation ?
    I’m saying they should be judged in the context of the wider middle east and not of an impossibly privileged western european liberal standard
    Indeed.
    https://www.972mag.com/israelis-war-crimes-gaza-taboo/
    ..Last week, Israeli opposition leader Yair Golan made international headlines when he declared in an interview on Israeli public radio that “a sane country does not wage war against civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not aim to expel a population.”..
    Well he’s not wrong, is he? But his party is nowhere in the polls which demonstrates that proportion responses to violence are not politically viable.

    It’s so easy to criticise from the safety of the UK but if we were all living under threat of rocket attacks from a terror organisation you can be certain that the jingoism would start and we’d elect a hardline government promising to respond hard.
    This is true.

    But at core, Western opinion is that Israel no longer has justice on its side. If Israel would stop rolling out apartheid like policy internally and stop settling the West Bank aggressively, then it would garner more sympathy.
    Funny, I seem to recall in 2000 when Israel accepted Clinton's peace proposals and Arafat rejected them that many in the West, especially on the Left, deplored Israel even then.

    And elements have only become more antisemitic since then.

    Israel could lay down its arms and many in the West would say or do nothing as its enemies slaughtered them.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,335
    So the Reform UK winners of the "Nigel Cut My Bills" competition are party activists!

    What a shocking coincidence!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,631
    Oh dear, how sad.

    Orbán's last campaign rally ended in a disaster in Debrecen. People showed up not to support him, but to take a last glimpse of the fallen autocratic leader and to say one last time: ORBÁN F*** OFF!
    https://x.com/SzabadonMagyar/status/2042566531607908768
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