Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
The Israeli entity has been racist since the beginning. Maybe start by looking at the naqba, then at the Law of Return, and then at how Arabs who managed not to be expelled from the territories forcefully occupied in 1948 were under military occupation until 1966.
I think there’s a difference between racism and discrimination. “Go live elsewhere, this place is now for the jews” is different to “fuck off and die”, for example.
Ethnic Germans were expelled from many parts of Europe after the wars but I don’t think we generally call that racism.
I wouldn't argue so much about the words. The expulsions of 1948 and 1967 could accurately be characterised as telling hundreds of thousands of people of an unwanted ethnic group to "fuck off and die".
The expulsion of Germans from territories after 1945 was unjustifiable too.
Er, what?
After the way the Germans treated the "subhuman" Slavs to their east, throughout World War 2, the Germans were lucky they weren't slaughtered en masse in 1945
Expulsion was a decent compromise, quite frankly
There’s an irreconcilable clash of value systems here. If you believe in collective punishment, fine. But be consistent about it. There’s enough in English/British history (and that of many other countries) that would, by the same logic, warrant it. If it’s done for the Germans it’s fine for us, the Belgians, the Yanks, the French etc etc etc
I don't "believe in collective punishment"
I accept that on some lofty philosophical level one *could* argue that the expulsion of Germans from Poland and Czechia etc was "unjustifiable"
But it's absurd. It ignores human reality: the desire for deadly revenge amongst the Poles, vis a vis the Germans, must have been intense (and entirely understandable). Moving the Germans away from their wrath was a sensible option
You said Germans were lucky “they weren’t slaughtered en masse” because of what Germans did to the Slavs. I think I can be forgiven for thinking your linkage of two events referred to collective punishment, a cause and its repercussions. Like I say such a clash of value systems one can’t reconcile. A utilitarian, for example, might say it’s justified to torture a child to save a million lives. Others would disagree vehemently. You’ll never reconcile those two viewpoints. You just have to learn to live together.
Well, the Poles could rightly argue in 1945 that the Germans deserved to suffer en masse because, after all, the Germans VOTED for Hitler, in their millions. He wasn’t some horror imposed on them against their will
They read Mein Kampf, and they still voted for him
I’d dispute that. Yes, a large number did, a plurality. But never a majority in a free election. The Nazis only received about 43.9% of the vote in 1933. This was the last multi-party election before Hitler consolidated power, and it was held under conditions of significant intimidation and violence against opposition parties. After the the Reichstag Fire Decree and the banning of all other parties, the Nazis ran essentially unopposed and claimed 92.2% of the vote. This was not a free election in any meaningful sense.
I'm not sure why you are still struggling to make a point here
I've agreed that there IS a rarefied philosophical argument that cogently says "collective punishment is wrong, the Germans should not have been expelled from eastern Europe"
I just think it's airyfairy nonsense in the emotional context of 1945. The Poles would have enacted mass reprisals on German communities in their midst, for the next 100 years, probably with great help from the Red Army, who also had a score to settle
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
The Israeli entity has been racist since the beginning. Maybe start by looking at the naqba, then at the Law of Return, and then at how Arabs who managed not to be expelled from the territories forcefully occupied in 1948 were under military occupation until 1966.
I think there’s a difference between racism and discrimination. “Go live elsewhere, this place is now for the jews” is different to “fuck off and die”, for example.
Ethnic Germans were expelled from many parts of Europe after the wars but I don’t think we generally call that racism.
I wouldn't argue so much about the words. The expulsions of 1948 and 1967 could accurately be characterised as telling hundreds of thousands of people of an unwanted ethnic group to "fuck off and die".
The expulsion of Germans from territories after 1945 was unjustifiable too.
Er, what?
After the way the Germans treated the "subhuman" Slavs to their east, throughout World War 2, the Germans were lucky they weren't slaughtered en masse in 1945
Expulsion was a decent compromise, quite frankly
There’s an irreconcilable clash of value systems here. If you believe in collective punishment, fine. But be consistent about it. There’s enough in English/British history (and that of many other countries) that would, by the same logic, warrant it. If it’s done for the Germans it’s fine for us, the Belgians, the Yanks, the French etc etc etc
I don't "believe in collective punishment"
I accept that on some lofty philosophical level one *could* argue that the expulsion of Germans from Poland and Czechia etc was "unjustifiable"
But it's absurd. It ignores human reality: the desire for deadly revenge amongst the Poles, vis a vis the Germans, must have been intense (and entirely understandable). Moving the Germans away from their wrath was a sensible option
You said Germans were lucky “they weren’t slaughtered en masse” because of what Germans did to the Slavs. I think I can be forgiven for thinking your linkage of two events referred to collective punishment, a cause and its repercussions. Like I say such a clash of value systems one can’t reconcile. A utilitarian, for example, might say it’s justified to torture a child to save a million lives. Others would disagree vehemently. You’ll never reconcile those two viewpoints. You just have to learn to live together.
Well, the Poles could rightly argue in 1945 that the Germans deserved to suffer en masse because, after all, the Germans VOTED for Hitler, in their millions. He wasn’t some horror imposed on them against their will
They read Mein Kampf, and they still voted for him
Estimates range between 6 million and 8.7 million Germans died during ze War.
Many as a result of (Western) Allied bombing raids. Eg Hamburg, Dresden.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
We both share our mobility problems though mine are not as acute as yours, but I cannot help you with the Sun as I can honestly say I have never read it
I confess I have only once before felt such dire, inescapable foreboding. And that was in February 2020
If we are really lucky, and the war ends tonight and the Straits reopen tomorrow, we face severe economic dislocation. And the Iranian regime will stay in place, and the Israelis will carry on their smiting
More likely is that the war will continue, and maybe worsen, and the "dislocation" will turn into catastrophe
On the other hand, I did buy my sourdough
It certainly has scope to be far, far worse than many people have remotely considered. A recession is probably the best we can hope for out of the current set of circumstances. A depression is quite possible if Trump goes all fire and brimstone. I doubt many people have sufficiently strong personal finances to endure that.
Buddy, can you spare a dime?
Yes, I keep trying to rationalise myself to a more hopeful position. "It won't be that bad", "we are more resilient than we think", "the Chinese will put a stop to it", and so forth
But it really could be that bad, very easily, partly because it's a horrific combination of dangers - a war that could go nuclear AND an economic rupture, quickly becoming inevitable, that could lead to famine and revolution
*insert joke here*
But he's rolled back Woke a bit. Not so much DEI now. It's DIE instead.
I see Barty’s adopted the “in order to save the Iranian people we must destroy them” principle.
Destroy the regime, not the people.
Which is why I propose the destruction of military targets: military facilities, petrochemical industry, energy etc
Not the mass bombings of civilian housing etc as Iran themselves, Hamas, Hezbollah, Russia etc do.
That's what differentiates good from evil.
What are they going to do with these houses if not blow them up? This is as evil as any of the evil perpetrated by those you lost. The only difference is your personal preference. And don’t give me fucking platitudes about “democracy”. The Lebanese didn’t vote him in.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
The Israeli entity has been racist since the beginning. Maybe start by looking at the naqba, then at the Law of Return, and then at how Arabs who managed not to be expelled from the territories forcefully occupied in 1948 were under military occupation until 1966.
I think there’s a difference between racism and discrimination. “Go live elsewhere, this place is now for the jews” is different to “fuck off and die”, for example.
Ethnic Germans were expelled from many parts of Europe after the wars but I don’t think we generally call that racism.
I wouldn't argue so much about the words. The expulsions of 1948 and 1967 could accurately be characterised as telling hundreds of thousands of people of an unwanted ethnic group to "fuck off and die".
The expulsion of Germans from territories after 1945 was unjustifiable too.
Er, what?
After the way the Germans treated the "subhuman" Slavs to their east, throughout World War 2, the Germans were lucky they weren't slaughtered en masse in 1945
Expulsion was a decent compromise, quite frankly
There’s an irreconcilable clash of value systems here. If you believe in collective punishment, fine. But be consistent about it. There’s enough in English/British history (and that of many other countries) that would, by the same logic, warrant it. If it’s done for the Germans it’s fine for us, the Belgians, the Yanks, the French etc etc etc
I don't "believe in collective punishment"
I accept that on some lofty philosophical level one *could* argue that the expulsion of Germans from Poland and Czechia etc was "unjustifiable"
But it's absurd. It ignores human reality: the desire for deadly revenge amongst the Poles, vis a vis the Germans, must have been intense (and entirely understandable). Moving the Germans away from their wrath was a sensible option
You said Germans were lucky “they weren’t slaughtered en masse” because of what Germans did to the Slavs. I think I can be forgiven for thinking your linkage of two events referred to collective punishment, a cause and its repercussions. Like I say such a clash of value systems one can’t reconcile. A utilitarian, for example, might say it’s justified to torture a child to save a million lives. Others would disagree vehemently. You’ll never reconcile those two viewpoints. You just have to learn to live together.
Well, the Poles could rightly argue in 1945 that the Germans deserved to suffer en masse because, after all, the Germans VOTED for Hitler, in their millions. He wasn’t some horror imposed on them against their will
They read Mein Kampf, and they still voted for him
Estimates range between 6 million and 8.7 million Germans died during ze War.
Many as a result of (Western) Allied bombing raids. Eg Hamburg, Dresden.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Trump assessed Iran’s latest proposal for reporters: “It’s a significant proposal. It’s a significant step. It’s not good enough. But it’s a very significant step.”
NY Times
Sounds like another pause on the bomb all the bridges deadline is incoming.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Rather poor, I'd have thought. Although I think their 'Templeton' racing pundit used to just about hold his own.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Actually, it's quite easy not to say "well done them" to the Iranian regime
I see Barty’s adopted the “in order to save the Iranian people we must destroy them” principle.
Destroy the regime, not the people.
Which is why I propose the destruction of military targets: military facilities, petrochemical industry, energy etc
Not the mass bombings of civilian housing etc as Iran themselves, Hamas, Hezbollah, Russia, ISRAEL (Bibi) etc do.
That's what differentiates good from evil.
FTFY
In Bartworld it’s okay when Israel does it because my side right or wrong they blow up apartment blocs and simply claim a Hezbollah member lived there so it’s all good.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Rather poor, I'd have thought. Although I think their 'Templeton' racing pundit used to just about hold his own.
I’ve been watching some Carry on films this Easter. That gag would be perfect for them.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
Yes, he's been pretty obvious about not wanting an extended entanglement, and he's reknowned for shifting his stated objectives, so as long as he can sell an outcome to his base - who like him a lot even now, so it shouldn't be hard - he may be inclined to take something quickly, so lingering effects have time to dissipate.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
Ins'allah
I also noticed, today, that the Iranians are claiming the US pilot rescue was actually a decoy and a cover for US special forces purloining Iran's enriched uranium (which is or was located in roughly the same region the pilot went down)
There is room there for a face saving deal. Trump can claim he got the uranium, the Iranians can say "we survived America's might" and everyone gets a kind of win, and the Straits reopen, and the world survives
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
We can only hope that the killing stops. And then we can all laugh at him. Again.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Trump is a contemptible bigot and misogynist? Perish the thought!
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
Ins'allah
I also noticed, today, that the Iranians are claiming the US pilot rescue was actually a decoy and a cover for US special forces purloining Iran's enriched uranium (which is or was located in roughly the same region the pilot went down)
There is room there for a face saving deal. Trump can claim he got the uranium, the Iranians can say "we survived America's might" and everyone gets a kind of win, and the Straits reopen, and the world survives
Please God
I doubt the Straits are reopening again in the sense they were before all this for a very long time.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Actually, it's quite easy not to say "well done them" to the Iranian regime
Well they are contemptible, I have no argument with that. But this war is frankly insane. Despite their evil killing of 30k+ protestors earlier this year Trump has made them the victims. It is an astonishing achievement. And Trump needs some serious humiliation. Bigly. America really needs to get rid. Now.
In the California governor’s race, Steve Hilton lands the endorsement of Donald Trump
I should think that's the kiss of absolute death in California?
There are so many Democrats running it is possible Hilton just faces another Republican in the runoff and Trump’s endorsement edges it for him. He probably will keep quiet about an endorsement from his old boss David Cameron apart from in the posher parts of Beverley Hills and Malibu
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
So anyway, let's assume no nukes (one has to for sanity) but if it were to happen (which to repeat we're assuming not) then it would have to go down as just about the most simultaneously evil and cowardly and pathetic act in history. Start a war, unprovoked, with a much smaller weaker country. Use planes and missiles because there's hardly any air defences and you can kill and destroy with impunity that way. When the hoped for surrender doesn't come chicken out of fighting on the ground, because you're scared of that, and instead drop a nuclear bomb on them. Can't see that storyline inspiring too many Hollywood hero flicks.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Actually, it's quite easy not to say "well done them" to the Iranian regime
Trump has made the mad Ayatollahs seem relatively reasonable, that's how shite your former hero is.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Actually, it's quite easy not to say "well done them" to the Iranian regime
Yes, they don't get a pass for mass murder - or join ing Trump in holding the world to ransom - just because they stood up to Trump.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Of course it does. But most of the people horrified by Israel's excesses are not antisemitic. Furthermore it's not that hard imo to spot those who are.
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
That's the goldilocks scenario right now. It still leaves energy prices elevated for a year, which will do no good at all to consumers in Europe, the UK or the US.
"Charles Moore Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
That's the best outcome and one I'm strongly rooting for (but stopping short of predicting because I think predicting on this one is a slightly yucky activity).
It wouldn't be TACO either. Because escalating from his sheltered position takes no courage whatsoever.
"Charles Moore Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Rather poor, I'd have thought. Although I think their 'Templeton' racing pundit used to just about hold his own.
I’ve been watching some Carry on films this Easter. That gag would be perfect for them.
"Charles Moore Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
If only our government were that decisive or competent.
In fact, MTD has all the hallmarks of a classic public sector project - uncertain in purpose, incompetent in execution, expensive in delivery and counter-productive in effects.
"Charles Moore Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Of course it does. But most of the people horrified by Israel's excesses are not antisemitic. Furthermore it's not that hard imo to spot those who are.
There are people horrified by Israel's excesses and there are people horrified by Israel's existence.
What I was suggesting in my initial comment that the potential number of people in the second group has grown and that this is something that Israel does not realise.
The 'goodwill' that Israel had from the Holocaust and then its achievements in 1967 and 1973 is long in the past and literally dying off.
Whereas the 'bad will' that Israel is creating from its excesses is fresher and will be around long after the good will has gone.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Of course it does. But most of the people horrified by Israel's excesses are not antisemitic. Furthermore it's not that hard imo to spot those who are.
There are people horrified by Israel's excesses and there are people horrified by Israel's existence.
What I was suggesting in my initial comment that the potential number of people in the second group has grown and that this is something that Israel does not realise.
The 'goodwill' that Israel had from the Holocaust and then its achievements in 1967 and 1973 is long in the past and literally dying off.
Whereas the 'bad will' that Israel is creating from its excesses is fresher and will be around long after the good will has gone.
I fear this is true. A secure and prosperous future for Israel is not achieved this way.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Um...wasn't it good? I assume The Racing Post or Sporting Life was the best back in the day? Are you talking about the past (50s/60s/70s/80s/90s) or the present?
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
He was talking about bringing Americans home earlier today. Maybe he will concede a closed American base in the region to get the Strait reopened. That would actually be quite popular with the America First lot, and he could follow it up with closing some European bases so that it looked less like something Iran had forced him into and more like something he wanted to do himself.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Um...wasn't it good? I assume The Racing Post or Sporting Life was the best back in the day? Are you talking about the past (50s/60s/70s/80s/90s) or the present?
Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.
That shows a level of ignorance so profound that it is astonishing that the author thinks their views on anything are worth sharing with the world. Stalin, Mao and Hitler, probably in that order, are the greatest mass murderers the world has ever seen. Trump is an ignorant, greedy, dishonest buffoon who has no problem killing people if he thinks it helps him make an extra buck or two but he is strictly amateur hour.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
Unfortunately, some people who weren’t previously antisemitic will become antisemitic because of Israel’s actions.
Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.
William: So what first attracted you to the billionaire Donald Trump?*
* Channelling my inner Mrs Merton.
I'm not Melania.
@Williamglenn suffers from TDS - Trump Denial Syndrome.
Trump Denial Syndrome (TDS) - n.
"Trump Denial Syndrome is an affliction where the poor, misguided victim denies that Donald J. Trump is the worst U.S. President in history. In particular, the victim denies that Trump is completely unfit to hold the Office of POTUS by his temperament, actions, and language, denies that the Trump is a racist and misogynist, and denies that he is self-confessed "pussy-grabber". The victim will also deny that Trump is steadily going senile and is increasingly unhinged to put it politely. Moreover, the victim will deny that Trump's opponent Joe Biden won the 2020 Presidential Election fair and square."
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Rather poor, I'd have thought. Although I think their 'Templeton' racing pundit used to just about hold his own.
I’ve been watching some Carry on films this Easter. That gag would be perfect for them.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
Unfortunately, some people who weren’t previously antisemitic will become antisemitic because of Israel’s actions.
Plenty will be accused of anti semitism just for criticism of the current Israeli regime.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Um...wasn't it good? I assume The Racing Post or Sporting Life was the best back in the day? Are you talking about the past (50s/60s/70s/80s/90s) or the present?
Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.
Don't think "Trump Derangement Syndrome" a sensible turn of phrase given how depraved the guy is. Was there a "Caligula Derangement Syndrome", an "Idi Amin Derangement Syndrome" ?
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
Unfortunately, some people who weren’t previously antisemitic will become antisemitic because of Israel’s actions.
Plenty will be accused of anti semitism just for criticism of the current Israeli regime.
That happens, but it doesn't mean the genuinely anti-semitic are not amongst them.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
Unfortunately, some people who weren’t previously antisemitic will become antisemitic because of Israel’s actions.
You don't become anti semitic.
You become anti zionist
The appeasers of Israel want to label you anti semitic, knowing full well that you are not and that you are anti Zionist.
Let's be crystal clear.
Anti Semirism is evil and wrong.
Anti Zionism is a badge anyone should be proud to wear with honour.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Um...wasn't it good? I assume The Racing Post or Sporting Life was the best back in the day? Are you talking about the past (50s/60s/70s/80s/90s) or the present?
So Iran tells Trump to go forth and multiply. Its really hard not to say well done them even if they are contemptible bigots and misogynists. Where the hell does he go now and how many more have to die because of his imbecility?
Don says it is "significant" progress.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
Ins'allah
I also noticed, today, that the Iranians are claiming the US pilot rescue was actually a decoy and a cover for US special forces purloining Iran's enriched uranium (which is or was located in roughly the same region the pilot went down)
There is room there for a face saving deal. Trump can claim he got the uranium, the Iranians can say "we survived America's might" and everyone gets a kind of win, and the Straits reopen, and the world survives
Please God
I doubt the Straits are reopening again in the sense they were before all this for a very long time.
They will, but what will happen now is lots of gas and oil pipelines will be built across the peninsula to derisk this ever happening again.
Puts the visit in a completely different context...
Trump weighed annexing parts of Canada near the U.S. border but backed off after learning King Charles is Canada’s head of state, a new royal book says, citing the president’s deference to the monarch — CBC News https://x.com/TrendPolCa/status/2040954145394286830
(And perhaps also the efforts on the right to pretend that Charles is Muslim.)
Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.
That shows a level of ignorance so profound that it is astonishing that the author thinks their views on anything are worth sharing with the world. Stalin, Mao and Hitler, probably in that order, are the greatest mass murderers the world has ever seen. Trump is an ignorant, greedy, dishonest buffoon who has no problem killing people if he thinks it helps him make an extra buck or two but he is strictly amateur hour.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
The Israeli entity has been racist since the beginning. Maybe start by looking at the naqba, then at the Law of Return, and then at how Arabs who managed not to be expelled from the territories forcefully occupied in 1948 were under military occupation until 1966.
I think there’s a difference between racism and discrimination. “Go live elsewhere, this place is now for the jews” is different to “fuck off and die”, for example.
Ethnic Germans were expelled from many parts of Europe after the wars but I don’t think we generally call that racism.
I wouldn't argue so much about the words. The expulsions of 1948 and 1967 could accurately be characterised as telling hundreds of thousands of people of an unwanted ethnic group to "fuck off and die".
The expulsion of Germans from territories after 1945 was unjustifiable too.
Er, what?
After the way the Germans treated the "subhuman" Slavs to their east, throughout World War 2, the Germans were lucky they weren't slaughtered en masse in 1945
Expulsion was a decent compromise, quite frankly
There’s an irreconcilable clash of value systems here. If you believe in collective punishment, fine. But be consistent about it. There’s enough in English/British history (and that of many other countries) that would, by the same logic, warrant it. If it’s done for the Germans it’s fine for us, the Belgians, the Yanks, the French etc etc etc
I don't "believe in collective punishment"
I accept that on some lofty philosophical level one *could* argue that the expulsion of Germans from Poland and Czechia etc was "unjustifiable"
But it's absurd. It ignores human reality: the desire for deadly revenge amongst the Poles, vis a vis the Germans, must have been intense (and entirely understandable). Moving the Germans away from their wrath was a sensible option
Wrocław is essentially Breslau, ethically cleansed. But by treks and carts, not elimination.
I confess I have only once before felt such dire, inescapable foreboding. And that was in February 2020
If we are really lucky, and the war ends tonight and the Straits reopen tomorrow, we face severe economic dislocation. And the Iranian regime will stay in place, and the Israelis will carry on their smiting
More likely is that the war will continue, and maybe worsen, and the "dislocation" will turn into catastrophe
On the other hand, I did buy my sourdough
It certainly has scope to be far, far worse than many people have remotely considered. A recession is probably the best we can hope for out of the current set of circumstances. A depression is quite possible if Trump goes all fire and brimstone. I doubt many people have sufficiently strong personal finances to endure that.
Buddy, can you spare a dime?
I'm actually fairly relaxed.
I think it's just a highly disruptive regional conflict, and will stay that way.
Trump will want it wrapped up by the midterms. And the Iranians absolutely know this.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
The Israeli entity has been racist since the beginning. Maybe start by looking at the naqba, then at the Law of Return, and then at how Arabs who managed not to be expelled from the territories forcefully occupied in 1948 were under military occupation until 1966.
I think there’s a difference between racism and discrimination. “Go live elsewhere, this place is now for the jews” is different to “fuck off and die”, for example.
Ethnic Germans were expelled from many parts of Europe after the wars but I don’t think we generally call that racism.
I wouldn't argue so much about the words. The expulsions of 1948 and 1967 could accurately be characterised as telling hundreds of thousands of people of an unwanted ethnic group to "fuck off and die".
The expulsion of Germans from territories after 1945 was unjustifiable too.
Er, what?
After the way the Germans treated the "subhuman" Slavs to their east, throughout World War 2, the Germans were lucky they weren't slaughtered en masse in 1945
Expulsion was a decent compromise, quite frankly
There’s an irreconcilable clash of value systems here. If you believe in collective punishment, fine. But be consistent about it. There’s enough in English/British history (and that of many other countries) that would, by the same logic, warrant it. If it’s done for the Germans it’s fine for us, the Belgians, the Yanks, the French etc etc etc
I don't "believe in collective punishment"
I accept that on some lofty philosophical level one *could* argue that the expulsion of Germans from Poland and Czechia etc was "unjustifiable"
But it's absurd. It ignores human reality: the desire for deadly revenge amongst the Poles, vis a vis the Germans, must have been intense (and entirely understandable). Moving the Germans away from their wrath was a sensible option
Wrocław is essentially Breslau, ethically cleansed. But by treks and carts, not elimination.
One of my best mates has just spent Easter there.
German place names in Poland are much easier to spell and pronounce IMHO.
On top of all the sins attributed to Trump, fairly, I'd like to emphasise the extent to which he has demeaned the office of POTUS. If you'd asked me years ago if the President of the USA would ever write 'fuckin'' and 'bastards' in a tweet, or refer to Newsom as 'Newscum', I'd have laughed with disbelief. But here we are, along with lots of other examples.
He has not a shred of dignity or decency, both of which should be essential attributes for any POTUS.
I confess I have only once before felt such dire, inescapable foreboding. And that was in February 2020
If we are really lucky, and the war ends tonight and the Straits reopen tomorrow, we face severe economic dislocation. And the Iranian regime will stay in place, and the Israelis will carry on their smiting
More likely is that the war will continue, and maybe worsen, and the "dislocation" will turn into catastrophe
On the other hand, I did buy my sourdough
I bought 8 weeks of supplies then, including clean water, camping gas, baby milk, candles and tinned food etc.
I could have cocooned and lasted for 2-3 months at home. But it subsequently occurred to me how pointless it would have been if I'd actually had recourse to all that.
I've spent most of the afternoon being bollocked by my wife for various things, and I'm not sure why.
How's your Easter Monday going?
Is that a euphemism???
Sunil - if you had a wife you’d understand. Sometimes ‘everything’ is wrong and it’s all your fault.
I might be oversharing here but fuck it..
I just lightly whipped her on her ass with my belt from my trousers in a jokey way, and she both played along with it and has subsequently massively cheered up.
I am in the process of writing a short story for a Creative Writing Group to which I belong. I'm not saying exactly what the subject is, but I'd appreciate opinion from an educated community on the following: What is The Sun (newspaper) like as a source of good betting advice?"
(No way would I use it as source of political opinion!)
Rather poor, I'd have thought. Although I think their 'Templeton' racing pundit used to just about hold his own.
I’ve been watching some Carry on films this Easter. That gag would be perfect for them.
Still raise a chuckle, don't they.
Indeed they do.
Convenience is a favourite of mine.
It's been ages but Up The Khyber I recall had merit.
I've spent most of the afternoon being bollocked by my wife for various things, and I'm not sure why.
How's your Easter Monday going?
Is that a euphemism???
Sunil - if you had a wife you’d understand. Sometimes ‘everything’ is wrong and it’s all your fault.
I might be oversharing here but fuck it..
I just lightly whipped her on her ass with my belt from my trousers in a jokey way, and she both played along with it and has subsequently massively cheered up.
Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.
Don't think "Trump Derangement Syndrome" a sensible turn of phrase given how depraved the guy is. Was there a "Caligula Derangement Syndrome", an "Idi Amin Derangement Syndrome" ?
It isn't. Not least because the very people first accused of it (the early adopters if we like) have simply been shown as clear-eyed assessors of the man.
Israel has just attacked the largest petrochemical facility in Iran, located in Asaluyeh.
According to the defense minister, two facilities responsible for about 85% of Iran’s petrochemical exports have been put out of operation.
Does that mean it’s no longer necessary to capture Kharg Island?
It means, alarmingly, that the Iranians have no reason at all to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, as they would not benefit from it (unless of course their toll systems can be put into operation).
It's also going to *seriously* piss off the Chinese.
The Iranians have no reason to open it anyway. It’s their leverage. If I was them I’d keep it closed and just allow some ships out after a tariff is paid.
Maximum leverage on trump
It has been said that the IRGC is missing payroll, though. Not surprising since Iranian banking has been cut off by their neighbours, and they are not receiving oil revenue.
Don't pay your troops (or don't feed them), and turns out even fanatics have limits.
Agreed.
Israel and the US should go full scorched earth on Iranian petrochemicals and energy and IRGC and military until the Iranian soldiers cave and surrender and oust the regime.
That might have been a tactic - if they could protect water, power, hydrocarbons across the Gulf.
But they can't.
A few weeks back, Barty was arguing gulf war in the basis of liberating Iran's populace. Now he's advocating for the deliberate wreaking of mass destruction on civilians.
For regime change, yes.
If it liberates the civilians then it is a price worth paying.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
You'd have an aneurysm if anyone applied that logic to the October 7th attacks.
Absolutely, because they are completely different.
Nope, both are the deliberate targetting of civilians.
You're on the side of the country who will execute Palestinian terrorists but not Israeli terrorists, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
I oppose the death penalty unconditionally. Always have, always will.
Targeting military, petrochemicals or energy is not targeting civilians. It absolutely could have impacts upon civilians, which all wars can, but they are legitimate military targets.
It is completely different to the deliberate targeting of civilians.
So why have we not heard a peep out of you about the new Israeli law then?
It negates Israel being a democracy when the state murders one group, fun fact these trials will be conducted by IDF military tribubals, who have a 96% conviction rate, and death penalty is carried out within 90 days.
Fun fact a lot of the defence lawyers are IDF personnel who have in the past described Palestinians as a plague to be wiped out.
The evidentiary rules are much more lax, the 'defence' aren't allowed to cross examine if the IDF says this relates to national security.
I have barely been online the past couple of weeks, but for the record I oppose this law as I oppose all forms of the death penalty.
I always form my own opinions and never agree with anyone unconditionally. Israel and America each have plenty of flaws I dislike, and I have said (repeatedly) I want to see both of their leaders defeated democratically.
Indeed I supported the (now) opposition in both countries at the last election in each.
So I hope that makes my position clear. The death penalty should not be the law.
You’re deliberately missing the point.
It’s not about the death penalty it’s about the one sided nature.
It applies to Palestinians but not Israelis.
This is a racist law, this is not the behaviour of a true democracy but a country that doesn’t value life.
I am more forgiving of Israel than most, but this race-based death penalty is like an Adolf Hitler fever dream. Incredible. For once the Nazi/genocide comparisons are entirely justified
What saddens me is how Israel has let itself sink to this level of depraved bigotry. Didn't have to happen
There was so much to admire about Israel. It is horrific what has become of them. They have become the archetypal abusive husband, "Look what you made me do!"
There are genuine "Nazis" in the Israeli government. They reallly think Palestinians are subhuman. AIUI there is a chance this appalling law will be struck down by the Supreme Court in Israel, let's hope that happens
The Israelis are whipping up a worldwide storm of hatred against themselves which will one day break over their heads. It is suicidal, apart from anything else
I think this is key: the Netanyahu government has, I suspect, sown the seeds of Israel's destruction. Should that happen, I will weep for the millions of Jews who did not support his government and who protested it.
I wonder if Israelis have misjudged things on a more fundamental basis.
I think Israel received much sympathy in the western world because of the Holocaust and respect for the way it won wars against multiple larger countries.
But both of those factors have been in decline for years, perhaps since the 1980s, and replacing them is the traditional/ancestral distrust/dislike of Jews.
That is exactly Netanyahu's shtick. All of the shock horror about Israel's barbaric behaviour is apparently an expression of latent antisemitism. It's a self-serving nonsense designed to allow them to act with impunity.
Latent antisemitism does exist though alongside more open varieties.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
Unfortunately, some people who weren’t previously antisemitic will become antisemitic because of Israel’s actions.
Plenty will be accused of anti semitism just for criticism of the current Israeli regime.
That happens, but it doesn't mean the genuinely anti-semitic are not amongst them.
No, but it also doesn’t mean criticism of Israel isn’t justified or anti-Semitic or motivated by Jew hatred.
I've spent most of the afternoon being bollocked by my wife for various things, and I'm not sure why.
How's your Easter Monday going?
Is that a euphemism???
Sunil - if you had a wife you’d understand. Sometimes ‘everything’ is wrong and it’s all your fault.
I might be oversharing here but fuck it..
I just lightly whipped her on her ass with my belt from my trousers in a jokey way, and she both played along with it and has subsequently massively cheered up.
"Charles Moore Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
If only our government were that decisive or competent.
In fact, MTD has all the hallmarks of a classic public sector project - uncertain in purpose, incompetent in execution, expensive in delivery and counter-productive in effects.
Oh no, the purpose is there. Make running a non-VAT business almost as hard as running a VAT business, paving the way for a future government to reduce the VAT limit to zero.
On top of all the sins attributed to Trump, fairly, I'd like to emphasise the extent to which he has demeaned the office of POTUS. If you'd asked me years ago if the President of the USA would ever write 'fuckin'' and 'bastards' in a tweet, or refer to Newsom as 'Newscum', I'd have laughed with disbelief. But here we are, along with lots of other examples.
He has not a shred of dignity or decency, both of which should be essential attributes for any POTUS.
The UK equivalent would have been if Andrew M-W had been King Andrew I.
On top of all the sins attributed to Trump, fairly, I'd like to emphasise the extent to which he has demeaned the office of POTUS. If you'd asked me years ago if the President of the USA would ever write 'fuckin'' and 'bastards' in a tweet, or refer to Newsom as 'Newscum', I'd have laughed with disbelief. But here we are, along with lots of other examples.
He has not a shred of dignity or decency, both of which should be essential attributes for any POTUS.
Didn't they give Obama shit for wearing a tan suit?
I confess I have only once before felt such dire, inescapable foreboding. And that was in February 2020
If we are really lucky, and the war ends tonight and the Straits reopen tomorrow, we face severe economic dislocation. And the Iranian regime will stay in place, and the Israelis will carry on their smiting
More likely is that the war will continue, and maybe worsen, and the "dislocation" will turn into catastrophe
On the other hand, I did buy my sourdough
It certainly has scope to be far, far worse than many people have remotely considered. A recession is probably the best we can hope for out of the current set of circumstances. A depression is quite possible if Trump goes all fire and brimstone. I doubt many people have sufficiently strong personal finances to endure that.
Buddy, can you spare a dime?
I'm actually fairly relaxed.
I think it's just a highly disruptive regional conflict, and will stay that way.
Trump will want it wrapped up by the midterms. And the Iranians absolutely know this.
Well before that, I think, as regards US involvement. November is an eternity away in Trumptime. His attention span is microshort.
"Charles Moore Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
If only our government were that decisive or competent.
In fact, MTD has all the hallmarks of a classic public sector project - uncertain in purpose, incompetent in execution, expensive in delivery and counter-productive in effects.
Oh no, the purpose is there. Make running a non-VAT business almost as hard as running a VAT business, paving the way for a future government to reduce the VAT limit to zero.
Also to minimise the number of self-employed. PAYE suits HMRC better.
On top of all the sins attributed to Trump, fairly, I'd like to emphasise the extent to which he has demeaned the office of POTUS. If you'd asked me years ago if the President of the USA would ever write 'fuckin'' and 'bastards' in a tweet, or refer to Newsom as 'Newscum', I'd have laughed with disbelief. But here we are, along with lots of other examples.
He has not a shred of dignity or decency, both of which should be essential attributes for any POTUS.
The UK equivalent would have been if Andrew M-W had been King Andrew I.
Perish the thought.
Of course, some say that with monarchy you cannot choose in such situations, except of course you can and we have forced out the 'real' monarch for being unacceptable in some fashion.
Puts the visit in a completely different context...
Trump weighed annexing parts of Canada near the U.S. border but backed off after learning King Charles is Canada’s head of state, a new royal book says, citing the president’s deference to the monarch — CBC News https://x.com/TrendPolCa/status/2040954145394286830
(And perhaps also the efforts on the right to pretend that Charles is Muslim.)
How stupid do you have to be, as Head of State, to not know the name of the head of state of your neighbour?
Comments
I've agreed that there IS a rarefied philosophical argument that cogently says "collective punishment is wrong, the Germans should not have been expelled from eastern Europe"
I just think it's airyfairy nonsense in the emotional context of 1945. The Poles would have enacted mass reprisals on German communities in their midst, for the next 100 years, probably with great help from the Red Army, who also had a score to settle
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/katz-says-israel-will-demolish-lebanon-border-villages-create-gaza-style-buffer-zone/
"You can't have nuclear weapons in the hands of lunatics"
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/2041188347507286239
NY Times
Sounds like another pause on the bomb all the bridges deadline is incoming.
They will do the same in Iran.
Despite all the talk of Iran being turned to molten glass it's still more likely that Trump just takes some shoddy deal which is no better than the situation before he started bombing and claims it the greatest victory in history and walks.
In the California governor’s race, Steve Hilton lands the endorsement of Donald Trump
I also noticed, today, that the Iranians are claiming the US pilot rescue was actually a decoy and a cover for US special forces purloining Iran's enriched uranium (which is or was located in roughly the same region the pilot went down)
There is room there for a face saving deal. Trump can claim he got the uranium, the Iranians can say "we survived America's might" and everyone gets a kind of win, and the Straits reopen, and the world survives
Please God
Didn't qualify to be in Europe.
'To whom do you refer?' would have been ok but 'Who are the sensible ones?' is the obvious question.
One of Israel's problems is that its actions are encouraging latent antisemitism to become more active.
But it's the best we can realistically hope for.
"Charles Moore
Making Tax Digital is a miserable example of creeping state control
In the hands of an incompetent authority, computer software can become a tool of persecution" (£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/06/making-tax-digital-miserable-state-control
It wouldn't be TACO either. Because escalating from his sheltered position takes no courage whatsoever.
https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/2041199604339708090
Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.
In fact, MTD has all the hallmarks of a classic public sector project - uncertain in purpose, incompetent in execution, expensive in delivery and counter-productive in effects.
Gonna be one or two refugees coming across the border in that case.
What I was suggesting in my initial comment that the potential number of people in the second group has grown and that this is something that Israel does not realise.
The 'goodwill' that Israel had from the Holocaust and then its achievements in 1967 and 1973 is long in the past and literally dying off.
Whereas the 'bad will' that Israel is creating from its excesses is fresher and will be around long after the good will has gone.
* Channelling my inner Mrs Merton.
Good job there are no animals in the Republican Party.
Bastani has recently been saying several things I agree with.
Normal service resumed; not really Trump derangement.
https://www.google.com/search?q=betting+using+the+Sun+as+an+information+source
https://www.google.com/search?q=betting+squares+and+sharps+uk
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2026/04/06/professional-sport-gamblers-closed-down-bookmakers-sharps/
https://www.theoldie.co.uk/blog/britains-oddest-odds-graham-sharpe
Trump Denial Syndrome (TDS) - n.
"Trump Denial Syndrome is an affliction where the poor, misguided victim denies that Donald J. Trump is the worst U.S. President in history. In particular, the victim denies that Trump is completely unfit to hold the Office of POTUS by his temperament, actions, and language, denies that the Trump is a racist and misogynist, and denies that he is self-confessed "pussy-grabber". The victim will also deny that Trump is steadily going senile and is increasingly unhinged to put it politely. Moreover, the victim will deny that Trump's opponent Joe Biden won the 2020 Presidential Election fair and square."
TRUMP: Who are you with?
Q: PBS
TRUMP: That's a radical left group of lunatics
https://x.com/atrupar/status/2041175248100331599
Trump pretending he gives a flying fxck about the pilot . With the military on show taking turns to blow him .
Now Hegseth is droning on about God .
Convenience is a favourite of mine.
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/05/10/archives/britains-no-1-book-ladbrokes-will-take-bets-on-almost-anything-even.html
https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/long-history-betting-on-british-politics
https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/12/01/history-of-the-political-punter-always-expect-the-unexpected/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11719070/Ron-Pollard-odds-maker-obituary.html
You become anti zionist
The appeasers of Israel want to label you anti semitic, knowing full well that you are not and that you are anti Zionist.
Let's be crystal clear.
Anti Semirism is evil and wrong.
Anti Zionism is a badge anyone should be proud to wear with honour.
Zionism is a cancer on the Jewish faith.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Punter-money-betting-politics/dp/1905641095
https://www.markpack.org.uk/49450/which-political-blogs-do-mps-read/
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/
Trump weighed annexing parts of Canada near the U.S. border but backed off after learning King Charles is Canada’s head of state, a new royal book says, citing the president’s deference to the monarch — CBC News
https://x.com/TrendPolCa/status/2040954145394286830
(And perhaps also the efforts on the right to pretend that Charles is Muslim.)
How's your Easter Monday going?
One of my best mates has just spent Easter there.
I think it's just a highly disruptive regional conflict, and will stay that way.
Trump will want it wrapped up by the midterms. And the Iranians absolutely know this.
He has not a shred of dignity or decency, both of which should be essential attributes for any POTUS.
I could have cocooned and lasted for 2-3 months at home. But it subsequently occurred to me how pointless it would have been if I'd actually had recourse to all that.
In reality, I binned most of it 4 years later.
Edit: although now they've switched to their computer model visualisation, which is a bit less inspiring.
I just lightly whipped her on her ass with my belt from my trousers in a jokey way, and she both played along with it and has subsequently massively cheered up.
Humans are fucking weird, man.
Of course, some say that with monarchy you cannot choose in such situations, except of course you can and we have forced out the 'real' monarch for being unacceptable in some fashion.