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Polymarket traders were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if

SystemSystem Posts: 13,038
edited April 4 in General
Polymarket traders were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should– politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,637
    The Knights who say "NEE THREAD".
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,709
    So with Sir Keir safe for the rest of the year, what is Pb thinking for the next year or so polling?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,795
    Fpt.

    I probably also would stick with Labour purely because of the War, despite everything else.
    Unfortunately, I'm at very clear and present danger of having a Council run by people who want to deport my housemate, colleagues and friends.
    So it'll be LibDem for me as their bar chart is sadly accurate for once.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,039
    I had toast and marmalade for breakfast.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,901
    BatteryCorrectHorse said:

    So with Sir Keir safe for the rest of the year, what is Pb thinking for the next year or so polling?

    I am convinced that Reform are on the slide. So two obvious ones:
    1) when do Labour regain their lead
    2) when do the Tories overtake Reform
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,525
    No scope for GOP insider trading. Shame on Polymarkets. (Presumably this is about betting on the US airman downed in Iran; the header is unclear.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,106
    edited April 4
    dixiedean said:

    Fpt.

    I probably also would stick with Labour purely because of the War, despite everything else.
    Unfortunately, I'm at very clear and present danger of having a Council run by people who want to deport my housemate, colleagues and friends.
    So it'll be LibDem for me as their bar chart is sadly accurate for once.

    Big danger in my ward is Con and LD split the non Ref vote and they come through the middle. And they both have a point. Half pf the Tory 2021 vote puts them adjacent to LD with enough left for Ref to squeak it
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,309
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,525
    Happy boat race day everyone. Cambridge 1/8 favourites but I'm too lazy to ask ChatGPT for a walkover on water joke.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    Given the markets Polymarket do allow, it's interesting to see where it does draw the line. Actually that it does draw a line at all.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,309
    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    MelonB said:

    I had toast and marmalade for breakfast.

    But was it citrus marmalade?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,022
    FF43 said:

    Given the markets Polymarket do allow, it's interesting to see where it does draw the line. Actually that it does draw a line at all.

    Indeed, I'm not sure that this action will have made things clearer, or just more arbitrary, in terms of standards.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    dixiedean said:

    So it's OK to wager on foreign countries' being bombed and their leaders kidnapped?
    But utterly immoral when it's a sainted US serviceman's fate?

    Could we compromise with a market on whether the IRGC will kidnap Trump?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,022
    dixiedean said:

    So it's OK to wager on foreign countries' being bombed and their leaders kidnapped?
    But utterly immoral when it's a sainted US serviceman's fate?

    Sure, but are foreign people actually people though?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,022
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    So it's OK to wager on foreign countries' being bombed and their leaders kidnapped?
    But utterly immoral when it's a sainted US serviceman's fate?

    Could we compromise with a market on whether the IRGC will kidnap Trump?
    I suspect if they could they'd have other actions in mind.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,039
    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    I had toast and marmalade for breakfast.

    But was it citrus marmalade?
    It was lady marmalade.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,525
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,237
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    It's not a royal tradition, his mother only ever issued one Easter message throughout her reign and that was during the pandemic, the focus has always been Christmas.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-will-not-overcome-us-says-the-queen-in-first-ever-recorded-easter-message-11972053
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,785
    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,525
    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Wigan 1.02 according to the Betfair rugby forum.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,815
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Wigan 1.02 according to the Betfair rugby forum.
    Someone lost their shirt on that!

    How many people programme bots to trade at 1.02 and 1.03 in sports events?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,785
    Sandpit said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Wigan 1.02 according to the Betfair rugby forum.
    Someone lost their shirt on that!

    How many people programme bots to trade at 1.02 and 1.03 in sports events?
    Its worth looking at the highlights. Just amazing 4 tries in 10.mins
  • StarryStarry Posts: 164
    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    I had toast and marmalade for breakfast.

    But was it citrus marmalade?
    ...on grilled sliced flour products which may or may not contain sprouted seed additions.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,180
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    Yes it is the certainty of being caught, not the severity of punishment, that has the deterrent effect, as most crime is impulsive.

    That's why politicians or journalists asking for yet heavier sentences for crimes are only clogging up our prison system.

    Better policing and focusing on repeat offenders, on the other hand, really does cut crime.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,614
    Why are we even considering this marmalade nonsense - I mean wtf?

    And does Sir Bubblehead have any idea how this looks - we're not members, we haven't even signed his 'deal' and they're already telling us what to put on a twatting jar of marmalade? The PR for his deal could really not be much worse.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 856
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    So it's OK to wager on foreign countries' being bombed and their leaders kidnapped?
    But utterly immoral when it's a sainted US serviceman's fate?

    Could we compromise with a market on whether the IRGC will kidnap Trump?
    I suspect if they could they'd have other actions in mind.
    Get their MAGA hats signed?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,742
    Sandpit said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Wigan 1.02 according to the Betfair rugby forum.
    Someone lost their shirt on that!

    How many people programme bots to trade at 1.02 and 1.03 in sports events?
    My dad mentioned that turn-around to me. I forget the odds, but I think it was even longer for Liverpool to win the Champions League in Istanbul at half-time about two decades ago.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,096
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
    It seems a dispersal order was issued and they didn't disperse. Is that an order with no teeth? I know nothing about them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,065
    56% of the way to the Moon!

    It looks like it's easier to send people to the moon than for Gloucestershire to win promotion to Division 1.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,096
    squareroot2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Wigan 1.02 according to the Betfair rugby forum.
    Someone lost their shirt on that!

    How many people programme bots to trade at 1.02 and 1.03 in sports events?
    Its worth looking at the highlights. Just amazing 4 tries in 10.mins
    Sounds as though the final 10 minutes was the highlight.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,148
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
    Law 237 for my UnDictatorship - Being A Bit Of A Tosser In A Public Place.

    Sentence - 10 years selling marmalade from a stall on the high street.
  • CarrCarr Posts: 45
    edited April 4
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
    1. Walking into a shop without a licence from Daily Mail readers.

    2. Giving Daily Mail readers the combination of pleasure and pain they enjoy so much, but for which they haven't got the manners to say "Thank you".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,547
    It’s OK. I got this
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,148
    LostPassword said:

    56% of the way to the Moon!

    It looks like it's easier to send people to the moon than for Gloucestershire to win promotion to Division 1.

    Fun record. Artemis II is the furthest from Earth a piece of exercise equipment has ever gone.

    A rowing erg, basically.




    Note the appalling technique in the diagram, though
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 71,070

    Javier Blas
    @JavierBlas
    According to Iranian media, the US and Israel have attacked several large petrochemical sites in the Khuzestan province near the border with Iraq.

    The area between Mahshahr and Bandar Imam Khomeini are home to some of the Iranian largest petrochemical complexes.

    https://x.com/JavierBlas/status/2040372287849865356
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    Non Christians presumably include Robert Jenrick who complained about a lack of a royal message for Psalm Sunday
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,148
    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    The entire purpose of the modern CoE is to prevent religion getting into the public discourse.

    Vague niceness, steam trains and tea, instead.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    LostPassword said:

    56% of the way to the Moon!

    It looks like it's easier to send people to the moon than for Gloucestershire to win promotion to Division 1.

    Gloucestershire were promoted in 2019 and would have stayed up in 2020.

    Indeed, they might have stayed up in 2022 had some wanker not appointed Dale Benkenstein as coach instead of confirming the excellent Ian Harvey in position.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,114
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    woke wishy washy liberals gone mad
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    Malmesbury said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    The entire purpose of the modern CoE is to prevent religion getting into the public discourse.

    Vague niceness, steam trains and tea, instead.

    Which Labour MP was it opposed disestablishment on the grounds the Church Of England was all that stood between the nation and Christianity?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,114
    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    poor excuse , two tier religon now as well as with all the other ones, scared to upset anyone but Christians. What a bunch of wimps.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,065
    edited April 4
    Malmesbury said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    The entire purpose of the modern CoE is to prevent religion getting into the public discourse.

    Vague niceness, steam trains and tea, instead.
    My daughter brought marble cake to church for her birthday. A risk of taking things a bit far compared to custard cream biscuits?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,114
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
    two months compusory litter collecting from 7am to 6pm , that would sort the dozy bunch of halfwits out. These are the future clowns that will whine they cannot buy a house as they are on dole or minimum wage and want pensioners robbed to give them more benefits.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    Malmesbury said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    The entire purpose of the modern CoE is to prevent religion getting into the public discourse.

    Vague niceness, steam trains and tea, instead.

    A highly attractive political manifesto from where I stand.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,114
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Why are we even considering this marmalade nonsense - I mean wtf?

    And does Sir Bubblehead have any idea how this looks - we're not members, we haven't even signed his 'deal' and they're already telling us what to put on a twatting jar of marmalade? The PR for his deal could really not be much worse.

    if you want to sell it , if not be a twat
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,039
    rottenborough said:


    Javier Blas
    @JavierBlas
    According to Iranian media, the US and Israel have attacked several large petrochemical sites in the Khuzestan province near the border with Iraq.

    The area between Mahshahr and Bandar Imam Khomeini are home to some of the Iranian largest petrochemical complexes.

    https://x.com/JavierBlas/status/2040372287849865356

    Hard to avoid the conclusion the US escalates and does naughty WTI-boosting things at the weekend when markets are closed, and then does a minor TACO on Monday. TACO Tuesday seems to have been brought forward a day in this war.

    See also the rumours of troop movements and ground war: always a weekend markets-closed story.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,148
    LostPassword said:

    Malmesbury said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    The entire purpose of the modern CoE is to prevent religion getting into the public discourse.

    Vague niceness, steam trains and tea, instead.
    My daughter brought marble cake to church for her birthday. A risk of taking things a bit far compared to custard cream biscuits?
    Marble cake leads to thinking, thinking leads to emotion. Emotion leads to anger…

    Before you know it, red light sabres.

    Watch out.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    malcolmg said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    poor excuse , two tier religon now as well as with all the other ones, scared to upset anyone but Christians. What a bunch of wimps.
    You didn't actually read what I wrote, did you? Guilty of that myself, of course.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 841
    Sorry but I'm not familiar with the tradition of taking a cake to Church on your birthday. I presume it was to coffee in the Church hall afterwards rather than the actual service?
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,709
    The media in this country are just awful at understanding Labour politics.

    Patrick Maguire and co were adamant Sir Keir was off post the local elections. They wrote articles for months saying this.

    Many of us kept asking “why”.

    They’ve all now changes their minds and he’s safe for as long as he wants the job. Either their sources are terrible or they are wishcasting.

    I maintain strongly Sir Keir will NOT fight any future election. But he’ll stay as long as he wants to up until then. This seems incredibly obvious but apparently not to our journalists.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    SandraMc said:

    Sorry but I'm not familiar with the tradition of taking a cake to Church on your birthday. I presume it was to coffee in the Church hall afterwards rather than the actual service?

    It was for Marie Antoinette's version of Holy Communion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,917
    Finally got around to listening to In Our Time to see if the new host was any good at it (he's fine).
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,039
    edited April 4
    AnneJGP said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
    It seems a dispersal order was issued and they didn't disperse. Is that an order with no teeth? I know nothing about them.
    The point about most of them hanging around being dickheads is an important one. To what extent should the police intervene in rude or antisocial behaviour?

    We’ve just seen a reversal of policy on this relating to non-crime hate incidents. There are some parallels - there are often actual crimes being committed by others in the same context at the same time, but how far do you go towards collective responsibility?

    So if people want greater rather than less intervention in non-crime dickheadedness like Clapham, what does that mean for other non-crime dickheadedness?

    My view is there should be some ability to intervene. But it should be limited, otherwise it starts to rest on one person’s view of what’s uncouth and what’s acceptable (as is the case for NCHIs).
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,709
    Clapham is an extremely odd place in many ways. It’s in all honesty extremely middle/upper class and very safe. Yet has had many gun incidents and gang/mob activity. I’m not sure exactly where these people are coming from.

    In any case, this is just yet another example of the actions of Cameron and co coming home to roost a decade later. I wonder how much of Pb cheered on cutting police and other things at the time. I suspect a lot of it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,865
    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    I don't find that convincing. Charles III issued an Easter message in 2025, and it combined a fairly statement of traditional Christian doctrine, with a nod to other religions.
    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2025-04-17/a-message-from-the-king-to-mark-easter

    If I am searching for a reason, I think it would perhaps be because the USA, and Hegseth in particular, are going full on 'God's war on Islam, and God is on our side' in style, and Charles wants to stand aside from that.

    I think that is a misjudgement, and he should assert that Christ's salvific work is inclusive and applies to society and the world as well as the individual, and mention Christ's title as "Prince of Peace". That could then draw into similar notes in all religions as Charles would wish to think of all the countries and people for whom he is monarch.

    His speech to both houses in the USA will be one to watch.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,788
    FPT…
    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    edited April 4
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Why are we even considering this marmalade nonsense - I mean wtf?

    And does Sir Bubblehead have any idea how this looks - we're not members, we haven't even signed his 'deal' and they're already telling us what to put on a twatting jar of marmalade? The PR for his deal could really not be much worse.

    Starmer is doing it to limit Brexit damage. Leavers didn't vote for damage requiring limitation, obviously. That's the political quandary we are in.

    * Actually neither Leavers nor Remainers voted for damage requiring limitation, which is the political quandary.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,148
    bondegezou said:

    FPT…

    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
    Really?

    This is the country where great angst was expressed about people rolling cheese down a hill.

    I guarantee that a piss ant with a clipboard will appear to a village fete and try and enforce an entirely imaginary interpretation of these rules.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,788
    FPT…
    AnneJGP said:

    bondegezou said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I've missed out on this marmalade thing. Could someone (e) recap?

    But I only like the cheapest most rubbishy stuff. Homemade is lost on me, rather not have any.

    Different countries have a word like “marmalade”, but mean somewhat different things by it. To ensure free trade, the EU, when the UK was in it, agreed some standards around what the word “marmalade” on a label should mean. These standards aligned with the British usage of the word.

    We then left the EU. Without having to accommodate us, the EU then changed its marmalade labelling rules to suit other countries’ usages.

    The UK wants to continue trading with the EU, so we’ve signed up to a bunch of food trade rules, including this new marmalade one. That means that we now have to adjust our labelling to match the EU’s new rules. This will mean that what used to be labelled as “marmalade” in the UK will now have to be labelled “citrus marmalade” or similar.

    This, some suggest, is emblematic of the problem of Brexit. In the EU, we got to influence the rules. Outside the EU, we still need to trade, but just have to accept the EU’s rules.
    Fair enough. Otherwise it would be like expecting the EU to retain English as an official language when the UK isn't a member.
    The EU has retained English as one of its 24 official languages, but then it is the main language of one member state (Ireland). In practice, most work in Brussels is still done in French or English.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,709
    MelonB said:

    AnneJGP said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    williamglenn said:

    This is probably the most significant domestic news of the day. An overtly political intervention on law and order from M&S.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk16j2j1ygo

    Maybe Sadiq Khan will finally listen this time.
    And do what exactly?

    There are dozens of High Streets in London and nowhere near enough Police to adequately patrol them all to the satisfaction of M&S it would seem.

    It's little coincidence this has started with the Easter school holidays in London and I imagine social media played a part.

    The alternative is to empower store security in some way - should we allow them to carry Tasers for instance or would we go further? I know store and shopping centre security staff do liaise with Police and have combined training so everyone knows what they can and cannot and should and should not do.

    How far should we go to allow stores to secure themselves? What powers should we grant store security personnel to detain or to use force to detain shoplifters for example? How do we ensure such powers aren't used inappropriately?
    We do hamstring shops. My wife is a baker and shop assistant for a national chain and the rules on what she can and cannot do regarding shoplifters are ridiculous.

    She cannot confront them, cannot stop them leaving the shop, cannot try to get goods back, cannot take images of them, cannot use images from store cameras for anything other than showing to the police, cannot identify and ban shoplifters or prevent them from entering the shop and cannot put up or circulate photos of them either in public or private (such as in the staff room) so that other shop assistants know who they are.

    Doing any of these will get her a range of punishments from a formal reprimand to dismissal.
    How much of than is actually mandated by law, and how much by her employer's desire to avoid litigation ?
    I think most of it is from the employer. But the fact they are so worried about litigation is enough to make the situation untenable.

    But some of that also stems from the fact they know that even if they detain the shoplifter and hand the over to the police, the chance of any meaningful prosecution is zero. Why risk your employees catching the criminals when the police or courts will just let them go?
    That isn't really true, most shoplifters will get community service or a fine at least. Though they are only likely to get jail time if the value of the goods stolen is £1,000 or more and there was use of coercion or force

    https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/theft-from-a-shop-or-stall/
    That would be great if it wasn't for the fact that 80% of shoplifting cases do not lead to prosecution even though in the vast majority of cases the police know who the criminal was.
    On the recent panic in South London, most of the shoplifters are not actually shoplifting; they just form an intimidating mob. What would they be charged with? Is being a complete dickhead a crime? And a lot of them are young lady dickheads who the government wants kept out of prison anyway; they look too young to have jobs so what's the point in fining them?

    Hold on, they're filming it. Let's blame Elon Musk and TikTok and algorithms. Digital ID. That'll fix it.
    It seems a dispersal order was issued and they didn't disperse. Is that an order with no teeth? I know nothing about them.
    The point about most of them hanging around being dickheads is an important one. To what extent should the police intervene in rude or antisocial behaviour?

    We’ve just seen a reversal of policy on this relating to non-crime hate incidents. There are some parallels - there are often actual crimes being committed by others in the same context at the same time, but how far do you go towards collective responsibility?

    So if people want greater rather than less intervention in non-crime dickheadedness like Clapham, what does that mean for other non-crime dickheadedness?

    My view is there should be some ability to intervene. But it should be limited, otherwise it starts to rest on one person’s view of what’s uncouth and what’s acceptable (as is the case for NCHIs).
    I was in Woking train station yesterday just after Woking had finished playing at home. It seemed to be very well policed. I never felt unsafe but it certainly could have been perceived as “intimidating behaviour”. To what extent should the Police get involved in this?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,827
    bondegezou said:

    FPT…

    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
    Why isn't orange jam just called jam? Think of all the ink wasted over centuries printing nine letters when three would do. Whatever happened to the Utilitarian Party? This is not just about citrus preserves, it's about our indolent attitude to waste and inefficiency.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,106
    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    I don't find that convincing. Charles III issued an Easter message in 2025, and it combined a fairly statement of traditional Christian doctrine, with a nod to other religions.
    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2025-04-17/a-message-from-the-king-to-mark-easter

    If I am searching for a reason, I think it would perhaps be because the USA, and Hegseth in particular, are going full on 'God's war on Islam, and God is on our side' in style, and Charles wants to stand aside from that.

    I think that is a misjudgement, and he should assert that Christ's salvific work is inclusive and applies to society and the world as well as the individual, and mention Christ's title as "Prince of Peace". That could then draw into similar notes in all religions as Charles would wish to think of all the countries and people for whom he is monarch.

    His speech to both houses in the USA will be one to watch.
    Also, the CofE was an Archbishop down at Easter 2025, which was a reasonable reason for the Supreme Governor to chip in.

    As for his speech in America, Charles is an Englishman and a Cambridge graduate. I'm sure he won't cause offence by accident.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,324
    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    I don't find that convincing. Charles III issued an Easter message in 2025, and it combined a fairly statement of traditional Christian doctrine, with a nod to other religions.
    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2025-04-17/a-message-from-the-king-to-mark-easter

    If I am searching for a reason, I think it would perhaps be because the USA, and Hegseth in particular, are going full on 'God's war on Islam, and God is on our side' in style, and Charles wants to stand aside from that.

    I think that is a misjudgement, and he should assert that Christ's salvific work is inclusive and applies to society and the world as well as the individual, and mention Christ's title as "Prince of Peace". That could then draw into similar notes in all religions as Charles would wish to think of all the countries and people for whom he is monarch.

    His speech to both houses in the USA will be one to watch.
    I accept it's arguable whether he should do an Easter message and I think based on your contributions on this site, your opinion is better qualified than mine on this.

    Unarguable, I think, is King Charles' Christian faith and willingness to talk it about on his social media.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,436
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Why are we even considering this marmalade nonsense - I mean wtf?

    And does Sir Bubblehead have any idea how this looks - we're not members, we haven't even signed his 'deal' and they're already telling us what to put on a twatting jar of marmalade? The PR for his deal could really not be much worse.

    Of course, this is emblematic of the entire problem of bureaucracy that the NU10K acolytes LOVE.

    Why should marmalade producers be put out because of pen pushers - largely unelected - trying to standardise, adoring regulations.

    And of course, such 'regulations' mean close to naught anyway. Remember the horsemeat scandal....
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,583
    edited April 4
    Malmesbury said:

    A moments silence. In memory of the Saturday Russian Trolls.

    Sadly, they are all now pushing up poppies. In a cemetery on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, probably.

    That is a shame. I, for one, miss the relaying of the latest thinking from the 'lads down the gym' on the obsolescence of western democracy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,917
    edited April 4
    Alphabet_Soup said:

    bondegezou said:

    FPT…

    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
    Why isn't orange jam just called jam? Think of all the ink wasted over centuries printing nine letters when three would do. Whatever happened to the Utilitarian Party? This is not just about citrus preserves, it's about our indolent attitude to waste and inefficiency.
    If you'd read the last thread, you'd be aware of the extensive research conducted into this (me opening a link).
    It is truly irrelevant to most manufacturers.
    https://www.theguardian.com/thefilter/2026/jan/10/best-uk-supermarket-marmalade-tasted-rated

    (And I never fancied that Tiptree stuff.)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,436
    Did anyone see Michael Gove's comments on Mahmood. Pretty much ensures they she has no chance of winning the leadership now...

    Very clever from Govey; she was the one danger to a Right Wing party winning the next election imo....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    ThomasNashe said:

    Malmesbury said:

    A moments silence. In memory of the Saturday Russian Trolls.

    Sadly, they are all now pushing up poppies. In a cemetery on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, probably.

    That is a shame. I, for one, miss the relaying of the latest thinking from the 'lads down the gym' on the obsolescence of western democracy.
    It was always fun trolling them.

    Although I think most of them were actually Iranians?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,937
    I see Jimmy has taken 4 wickets for nothing at Northampton.

    Remind me again why he stopped playing for England?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,795
    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Absolute despair for me.
    Glad I wasn't there.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,788
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    OT

    I am a staunch atheist but it does seem strange to me that the head of the Church of England should be happy to release messages for Eid and Ramadan but not for Easter.

    Counterintuitively it's mainly non Christians, and I regret to say those interested in creating division and trouble, who are exercised by the lack of an Easter message from the King.

    He released a bland message about Ramadan on his Instagram channel, which is surely appropriate for a major religion amongst his subjects. He talks quite a lot about his Christian faith on social media and there were several posts about the traditional royal activities for Maundy Thursday. He gives an address to the nation at Christmas.

    I suspect his Christian faith is the main reason for him not traditionally giving an Easter message. Easter is the most solemn festival in the Christian calender, so he should let it speak for itself.
    I don't find that convincing. Charles III issued an Easter message in 2025, and it combined a fairly statement of traditional Christian doctrine, with a nod to other religions.
    https://www.royal.uk/news-and-activity/2025-04-17/a-message-from-the-king-to-mark-easter

    If I am searching for a reason, I think it would perhaps be because the USA, and Hegseth in particular, are going full on 'God's war on Islam, and God is on our side' in style, and Charles wants to stand aside from that.

    I think that is a misjudgement, and he should assert that Christ's salvific work is inclusive and applies to society and the world as well as the individual, and mention Christ's title as "Prince of Peace". That could then draw into similar notes in all religions as Charles would wish to think of all the countries and people for whom he is monarch.

    His speech to both houses in the USA will be one to watch.
    I accept it's arguable whether he should do an Easter message and I think based on your contributions on this site, your opinion is better qualified than mine on this.

    Unarguable, I think, is King Charles' Christian faith and willingness to talk it about on his social media.
    A like for like comparison is not being made here. I might even suspect that certain commentators are trying to create a fuss out of nothing. The monarch sometimes does a long Easter message and sometimes (as this year) doesn’t. I understand it’s not a consistent thing.

    There were brief messages on social media for the start and end of Ramadan, but then there were multiple (and longer) messages on social media about Maundy Thursday. So, he’s still tweeting more about Christian festivals than Muslim ones.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    Flatlander said:

    I see Jimmy has taken 4 wickets for nothing at Northampton.

    Remind me again why he stopped playing for England?

    Because he wasn't Rob Key's mate.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,795
    squareroot2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    squareroot2 said:

    I'd love to.know what the odds were yesterday when Wigan were 10 24 up at St Helens with 9 mins to go and lost 34 24. Its one of THE great comebacks in R League history.

    Wigan 1.02 according to the Betfair rugby forum.
    Someone lost their shirt on that!

    How many people programme bots to trade at 1.02 and 1.03 in sports events?
    Its worth looking at the highlights. Just amazing 4 tries in 10.mins
    I'll pass thank you.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,583
    ydoethur said:

    ThomasNashe said:

    Malmesbury said:

    A moments silence. In memory of the Saturday Russian Trolls.

    Sadly, they are all now pushing up poppies. In a cemetery on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, probably.

    That is a shame. I, for one, miss the relaying of the latest thinking from the 'lads down the gym' on the obsolescence of western democracy.
    It was always fun trolling them.

    Although I think most of them were actually Iranians?
    That might also account for their quietude.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 5,709
    I think we should legalise security guards having pepper spray.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,891
    BatteryCorrectHorse said:

    The media in this country are just awful at understanding Labour politics.

    Patrick Maguire and co were adamant Sir Keir was off post the local elections. They wrote articles for months saying this.

    Many of us kept asking “why”.

    They’ve all now changes their minds and he’s safe for as long as he wants the job. Either their sources are terrible or they are wishcasting.

    I maintain strongly Sir Keir will NOT fight any future election. But he’ll stay as long as he wants to up until then. This seems incredibly obvious but apparently not to our journalists.

    I also think he'll survive this year but the market still doesn't. His exit price has drifted but remains odds on at 1.66.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,079
    edited April 4
    Nigelb said:

    Alphabet_Soup said:

    bondegezou said:

    FPT…

    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
    Why isn't orange jam just called jam? Think of all the ink wasted over centuries printing nine letters when three would do. Whatever happened to the Utilitarian Party? This is not just about citrus preserves, it's about our indolent attitude to waste and inefficiency.
    If you'd read the last thread, you'd be aware of the extensive research conducted into this (me opening a link).
    It is truly irrelevant to most manufacturers.
    https://www.theguardian.com/thefilter/2026/jan/10/best-uk-supermarket-marmalade-tasted-rated

    (And I never fancied that Tiptree stuff.)
    Although we could just tell the EU that Tiptree is just the name for a mix of oranges and lemons
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,614
    FF43 said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Why are we even considering this marmalade nonsense - I mean wtf?

    And does Sir Bubblehead have any idea how this looks - we're not members, we haven't even signed his 'deal' and they're already telling us what to put on a twatting jar of marmalade? The PR for his deal could really not be much worse.

    Starmer is doing it to limit Brexit damage. Leavers didn't vote for damage requiring limitation, obviously. That's the political quandary we are in.

    * Actually neither Leavers nor Remainers voted for damage requiring limitation, which is the political quandary.
    No he isn't. There is nothing 'damage limiting' about giving away 12 years of fishing rights for literally nothing. I wasn't a supporter of Sunak's Windsor Framework Agreement, but that could be argued to 'limit Brexit damage'. Starmer's actions aren't limiting any damage, they are pure politics.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,788
    LostPassword said:

    56% of the way to the Moon!

    It looks like it's easier to send people to the moon than for Gloucestershire to win promotion to Division 1.

    I suspect different sized budgets have been involved.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,148
    ydoethur said:

    ThomasNashe said:

    Malmesbury said:

    A moments silence. In memory of the Saturday Russian Trolls.

    Sadly, they are all now pushing up poppies. In a cemetery on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, probably.

    That is a shame. I, for one, miss the relaying of the latest thinking from the 'lads down the gym' on the obsolescence of western democracy.
    It was always fun trolling them.

    Although I think most of them were actually Iranians?
    Apparently, numbers of the more absurd Scottish Nationalists online turned out to be Iranian.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,065
    Flatlander said:

    I see Jimmy has taken 4 wickets for nothing at Northampton.

    Remind me again why he stopped playing for England?

    Ageism.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,130
    Malmesbury said:

    Note the appalling technique in the diagram, though

    I'm gonna guess microgravity plays havoc with technique...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,130
    Meanwhile it seems the US has lost yet another aircraft in the 'war' it won a month ago

    Chinook on the ground in Kuwait
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,637
    bondegezou said:

    FPT…

    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
    From the BBC article:

    "In 2004, the EU agreed to relax the rule for producers selling fruity wares at farmers' markets in Austria and Germany."

    So it has been a problem before...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,130
    @newrepublic.com‬

    Three weeks into the conflict—in mid-March—White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles forced a meeting of the president’s inner circle urging them to stop feeding him a rose-tinted interpretation of the conflict.

    https://bsky.app/profile/newrepublic.com/post/3mine6j67rl2n
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    Donald Trump appears to be thinking of a coastal property as his retirement home:

    Trump seeks $152m to reopen notorious Alcatraz prison
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dlpk0zzy1o

    Announcing his plans on Truth Social last year, Trump said was directing "the Bureau of Prisons, together with the Department of Justice, FBI, and Homeland Security, to reopen a substantially enlarged and rebuilt ALCATRAZ".
    The prison would "house America's most ruthless and violent offenders".
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,788
    Malmesbury said:

    bondegezou said:

    FPT…

    SandyRentool said:

    I am looking forward to the Brussels Stasi hauling off Mrs Smith from the WI for selling jars labelled "Marmalade" at the village fete.

    The rules are British rules (made to follow EU rules) and are enforced by UK authorities, who, generally speaking, are not jobsworths who have any interest in going after people selling homemade jars at fetes.
    Really?

    This is the country where great angst was expressed about people rolling cheese down a hill.

    I guarantee that a piss ant with a clipboard will appear to a village fete and try and enforce an entirely imaginary interpretation of these rules.
    I work with a major national regulator. Their ethos is guidance rather than punishment. They’re not chasing prosecutions. Broadly speaking, the government is not interested in chasing such matters. Whether someone local with a clipboard misbehaves is another matter.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,130
    ydoethur said:

    Donald Trump appears to be thinking of a coastal property as his retirement home:

    Trump seeks $152m to reopen notorious Alcatraz prison
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dlpk0zzy1o

    Announcing his plans on Truth Social last year, Trump said was directing "the Bureau of Prisons, together with the Department of Justice, FBI, and Homeland Security, to reopen a substantially enlarged and rebuilt ALCATRAZ".
    The prison would "house America's most ruthless and violent offenders".

    Yup, this is the dumbest idea ever, and also possibly the funniest thing he will ever do
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 71,070
    As I watch this war, my mind goes to an old proverb: A fool may throw a stone in a well, but 100 wise men cannot remove it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/04/opinion/trump-iran-war-power.html
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,039
    BatteryCorrectHorse said:

    I think we should legalise security guards having pepper spray.

    Or stinkbombs, if pepper spray is too extreme. Or just get security guards with a flatulence problem.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,637
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    FF43 said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Why are we even considering this marmalade nonsense - I mean wtf?

    And does Sir Bubblehead have any idea how this looks - we're not members, we haven't even signed his 'deal' and they're already telling us what to put on a twatting jar of marmalade? The PR for his deal could really not be much worse.

    Starmer is doing it to limit Brexit damage. Leavers didn't vote for damage requiring limitation, obviously. That's the political quandary we are in.

    * Actually neither Leavers nor Remainers voted for damage requiring limitation, which is the political quandary.
    No he isn't. There is nothing 'damage limiting' about giving away 12 years of fishing rights for literally nothing. I wasn't a supporter of Sunak's Windsor Framework Agreement, but that could be argued to 'limit Brexit damage'. Starmer's actions aren't limiting any damage, they are pure politics.
    The 12 years was given away in exchange for it being formally un-linked from other concerns so that, in 12 years, we can become an independent coastal state without endangering any other part of the agreement. Allegedly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,505
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Donald Trump appears to be thinking of a coastal property as his retirement home:

    Trump seeks $152m to reopen notorious Alcatraz prison
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3dlpk0zzy1o

    Announcing his plans on Truth Social last year, Trump said was directing "the Bureau of Prisons, together with the Department of Justice, FBI, and Homeland Security, to reopen a substantially enlarged and rebuilt ALCATRAZ".
    The prison would "house America's most ruthless and violent offenders".

    Yup, this is the dumbest idea ever, and also possibly the funniest thing he will ever do
    I was thinking more, if we look at America's most ruthless criminals, well, all of them are bungling amateurs compared to him.
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