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Trump still retains the support of MAGA but the trend is not his friend – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,034
edited 2:58PM in General
Trump still retains the support of MAGA but the trend is not his friend – politicalbetting.com

My expectation is that if troops are sent to Iran they MAGA will be revolting at a previously unknown level.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,989
    1st. Unlike Vance after all this is over.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,751

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ed Conway
    @EdConwaySky

    The problem with casting a closer relationship with Europe as the solution to the world's current economic malaise is that it kind of misses the point.
    The key problem at present is a shortage of ENERGY.
    Europe has an energy deficit.
    Up until 2022 it filled that gap with gas from Russia.
    Now it fills that gap with gas (and oil) from the US and Middle East.
    It swapped one dependency for another.
    We can debate whether that dependency is inevitable, the extent to which it's a function of geology and/or political decisions taken years ago.
    Regardless, right now Europe is highly exposed to the problems in the Gulf. And without US energy imports it is in BIG trouble.
    A closer relationship between the UK and the EU does not solve this conundrum.

    https://x.com/EdConwaySky/status/2039301881613218107

    I think renewables as a share of energy production in Europe is up 6 percentage points between 2022 and 2025. That’s the other side of this equation. If Europe, including the UK, can keep pushing that number up, and accelerate the increase, then we solve the problem. Big international cooperative projects, like the one to support offshore wind power in the North Sea, are part of that and are helped by that closer relationships between the UK and EU. The unreliable nature of much renewable power is also helped by pan-European cooperation.
    Bollocks. Doing that only bakes in higher energy costs. There is no country with a high level of penetration of wind and solar in its energy mix that does not have higher than average energy costs. If I'm lying, find one.

    Spain is 60% renewables, and has some of the lowest prices in the EU.

    I'm curious what your alternative would be for Europe ?
    The lowest prices 'in the EU'. I really don't care what Europe does, I just don't want us to be pulled down with them.
    Right now, the higher ther proportion of renewables in your electricity generation mix (Spain, Portugal, Switzerland and Norway being the top), the lower the electricity price.

    Now that's not always going to be the case, but -at the same time- if the Straits of Hormuz remain closed to LNG traffic for a sustained period of time, you are really, really, really going to want non-hydrocarbon generation in the mix. (There is no chance of meaningful quantities of new UK natural gas coming on stream on five year view. Nor is HPC likely to go live on that time horizon.)
    Now with a nice chart:


    How are Spain pulling that off?
    Not much connection across the Pyrenees, so Iberia is closeish to a closed system.
    Exactly right.

    Plus: Iberia is fortunate to be blessed with lots of sun and wind, as well as cheap land.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,083
    Nominations have closed for Holyrood
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,728
    As long as Trump is annoying the 'Libtards', Maga will support him
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,989
    edited 3:07PM
    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,703
    I'd be quite surprised if Trump really does leave NATO.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,203

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,445

    Nominations have closed for Holyrood

    Hey, you missed this.

    ‘ NEW: SNP chief in North Lanarkshire Tracy Carragher suspended and axed as Holyrood candidate over handling of scandal surrounding former SNP council boss Jordan Linden, who is now a convicted serial sex offender. ’

    https://x.com/connorgillies/status/2039322076255821970?s=61

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,052
    I wander over to a space related blog that’s owned by someone who fell down the MAGA hole, long time back.

    He and the other MAGA types are busy convincing themselves of Trump’s genius and how everything that has happened justifies all of Trumps other efforts - such as the Greenland thing.

    There’s aways to go before that layer of the onion cracks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,052
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be quite surprised if Trump really does leave NATO.

    It’s the most stupid option. So bet accordingly.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,830

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    I misread that I thought he'd threatened to nuke Bristol
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,989

    I wander over to a space related blog that’s owned by someone who fell down the MAGA hole, long time back.

    He and the other MAGA types are busy convincing themselves of Trump’s genius and how everything that has happened justifies all of Trumps other efforts - such as the Greenland thing.

    There’s aways to go before that layer of the onion cracks.

    It's the indies that matter for 2026 though. The Dems are going to come out and walk over acid tipped glass shards to vote Dem in the mid-terms but what of the indies?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,989

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,083
    Taz said:

    Nominations have closed for Holyrood

    Hey, you missed this.

    ‘ NEW: SNP chief in North Lanarkshire Tracy Carragher suspended and axed as Holyrood candidate over handling of scandal surrounding former SNP council boss Jordan Linden, who is now a convicted serial sex offender. ’

    https://x.com/connorgillies/status/2039322076255821970?s=61

    It was posted in the previous thread by DoctorG
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,771

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,703
    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,081
    It sounds like in the SCOTUS hearing POTUS is not doing well...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,989
    I have won a TOTAL and HISTORIC victory in Iran achieving EVERY SINGLE one of the many DIFFICULT mission goals. No one has seen anything like this EVER before.

    To CELEBRATE this HUGE achievement I am LEAVING NATO tonight. We NO LONGER need this woke alliance who DO NOT respect Vladimar Putin CORRECTLY. We have shown we can WIN without NATO.

    Thank you for your attention.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 476
    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401
    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    One hopes that is related to today's date, but in today's America who knows?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,909
    edited 3:27PM
    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    Those 30+ strategic bombers currently operating from the UK? The U2/drone flights from Cyprus? Refuelling flights from DG? UK air space?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741
    We are due a backlash. It is as clear as night follows day. We are not the only people who are seeing Trump as an out of control buffoon. Literature is paved with 'Trumps'. We're just waiting for it to happen and it's not going to be long. Why is he honing in on Starmer? Because he's weak and pathetic. He knows that Macron and Merz are far too smart. This is how you deal with Trump.......in weeks we'll all be laughing

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=mm.+malheuret#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:17157640,vid:FXPD6bjrlXg,st:0
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be quite surprised if Trump really does leave NATO.

    He's welcome to do so.
    As for the US, it will have to ask Congress.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,771
    edited 3:27PM
    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    With that which we have.
    Bases for starters.
    And a Royal visit.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,771
    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    Much iron oxide round there?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,565
    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    If they'd done it with the Iranians carving Trump's face into the mountains on Kharg Island, they might have been able to get him to retweet it himself.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741
    Roger said:

    We are due a backlash. It is as clear as night follows day. We are not the only people who are seeing Trump as an out of control buffoon. Literature is paved with 'Trumps'. We're just waiting for it to happen and it's not going to be long. Why is he honing in on Starmer? Because he's weak and pathetic. He knows that Macron and Merz are far too smart. This is how you deal with Trump.......in weeks we'll all be laughing

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=mm.+malheuret#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:17157640,vid:FXPD6bjrlXg,st:0

    (Shorter version)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXPD6bjrlXg
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,590
    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    Checks date, checks time, shakes head with a sigh.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,474
    The best news for those pro EU would be for Trump to announce he wants to leave NATO .

    What more would he have to do to highlight that the US is no longer an ally .

    Farage and Badenoch can they try and explain why we shouldn’t get closer to the EU .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,751
    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401
    nico67 said:

    The best news for those pro EU would be for Trump to announce he wants to leave NATO .

    What more would he have to do to highlight that the US is no longer an ally .

    Farage and Badenoch can they try and explain why we shouldn’t get closer to the EU .

    Because swapping one unreliable entity for another is not an improvement.

    We need to work independently, with like-minded allies.

    We should NEVER be in a position where a single foreign individual can wreck our defences. Whether that be someone in America, or someone in Europe.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We carry on, for now, and react to the facts on the ground.
    If the US starts to pull out of NATO command structures, replace those personnel with Europeans, Brits and Canadians.

    It's not valid, and the US, notionally at least, remains a member and an ally.

    It won't be easy, but it's probably easier to manage that a hard exit rubber stamped by Congress (unlikely). And the process of managing is preparation/insurance for that.

    As someone else mentioned on the last thread, we'd better start preparation for redrafting the charter and sounding out members - and France - about that.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,771

    nico67 said:

    The best news for those pro EU would be for Trump to announce he wants to leave NATO .

    What more would he have to do to highlight that the US is no longer an ally .

    Farage and Badenoch can they try and explain why we shouldn’t get closer to the EU .

    Because swapping one unreliable entity for another is not an improvement.

    We need to work independently, with like-minded allies.

    We should NEVER be in a position where a single foreign individual can wreck our defences. Whether that be someone in America, or someone in Europe.
    How do you work independently with like minded allies?
    That's an oxymoron.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,565
    https://x.com/ashcowburn/status/2039304366377545941

    Rachel Reeves hits out at Donald Trump - saying she's angry he chose to go to war with Iran.

    "I'm angry that Donald Trump has chosen to go to war in the Middle East - a war that there's not a clear plan of how to get out of. It's why we didn't want to enter this.

    "Yes it will have implications for our economy, I get that. We are monitoring very closely what's happening - trying to bring the oil and gas into the UK so that those supplies are there and get the prices down. We are monitoring the situation very carefully."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,019
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    We hope!
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,445

    Taz said:

    Nominations have closed for Holyrood

    Hey, you missed this.

    ‘ NEW: SNP chief in North Lanarkshire Tracy Carragher suspended and axed as Holyrood candidate over handling of scandal surrounding former SNP council boss Jordan Linden, who is now a convicted serial sex offender. ’

    https://x.com/connorgillies/status/2039322076255821970?s=61

    It was posted in the previous thread by DoctorG
    Yes, I said ‘you’ not DoctorG

    You just seem obsessed when it is one party and never comment when it is others.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    Not 100%.
    MAGA are genuinely making plans - though he'll be long gone before any serious work could start, so absent the new dictatorship after 2028, it won't happen.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,154
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    It's not an April Fool however that he's named an airport in Florida after himself. That's not quite as vainglorious, but definitely in the same ballpark. And it's strange how used to this sort of thing we've become. We hardly batted an eyelid. Yet you couldn't imagine any previous president doing it while they were still president (though I do recall an aircraft carrier being named Ronald Reagan possibly when he was still alive). And you couldn't imagine any British politician doing it.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,590
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ed Conway
    @EdConwaySky

    The problem with casting a closer relationship with Europe as the solution to the world's current economic malaise is that it kind of misses the point.
    The key problem at present is a shortage of ENERGY.
    Europe has an energy deficit.
    Up until 2022 it filled that gap with gas from Russia.
    Now it fills that gap with gas (and oil) from the US and Middle East.
    It swapped one dependency for another.
    We can debate whether that dependency is inevitable, the extent to which it's a function of geology and/or political decisions taken years ago.
    Regardless, right now Europe is highly exposed to the problems in the Gulf. And without US energy imports it is in BIG trouble.
    A closer relationship between the UK and the EU does not solve this conundrum.

    https://x.com/EdConwaySky/status/2039301881613218107

    I think renewables as a share of energy production in Europe is up 6 percentage points between 2022 and 2025. That’s the other side of this equation. If Europe, including the UK, can keep pushing that number up, and accelerate the increase, then we solve the problem. Big international cooperative projects, like the one to support offshore wind power in the North Sea, are part of that and are helped by that closer relationships between the UK and EU. The unreliable nature of much renewable power is also helped by pan-European cooperation.
    Bollocks. Doing that only bakes in higher energy costs. There is no country with a high level of penetration of wind and solar in its energy mix that does not have higher than average energy costs. If I'm lying, find one.

    Spain is 60% renewables, and has some of the lowest prices in the EU.

    I'm curious what your alternative would be for Europe ?
    The lowest prices 'in the EU'. I really don't care what Europe does, I just don't want us to be pulled down with them.
    Right now, the higher ther proportion of renewables in your electricity generation mix (Spain, Portugal, Switzerland and Norway being the top), the lower the electricity price.

    Now that's not always going to be the case, but -at the same time- if the Straits of Hormuz remain closed to LNG traffic for a sustained period of time, you are really, really, really going to want non-hydrocarbon generation in the mix. (There is no chance of meaningful quantities of new UK natural gas coming on stream on five year view. Nor is HPC likely to go live on that time horizon.)
    Now with a nice chart:


    How are Spain pulling that off?
    Not much connection across the Pyrenees, so Iberia is closeish to a closed system.
    Exactly right.

    Plus: Iberia is fortunate to be blessed with lots of sun and wind, as well as cheap land.
    What's Latvia getting wrong?
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,445
    ‘ State of Scottish politics:

    - Labour candidate dropped b/c of alleged fraud
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged sexual offences
    - SNP candidate dropped after defending sex offender
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged benefit fraud
    - Reform candidate dropped over Covid loan

    - Two Reform candidates quit over anti-Muslim tweets
    - Two Reform candidates quit after being nominated by mistake
    - Green candidate blocked over Maggie Chapman complaint
    - Sarwar stroke comments
    - Offord George Michael joke‘


    https://x.com/joshpizpom/status/2039338041395863706?s=61
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,565
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    It's not an April Fool however that he's named an airport in Florida after himself. That's not quite as vainglorious, but definitely in the same ballpark. And it's strange how used to this sort of thing we've become. We hardly batted an eyelid. Yet you couldn't imagine any previous president doing it while they were still president (though I do recall an aircraft carrier being named Ronald Reagan possibly when he was still alive). And you couldn't imagine any British politician doing it.
    Boris showed how it's done by getting an island that doesn't exist named after himself.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,587

    https://x.com/ashcowburn/status/2039304366377545941

    Rachel Reeves hits out at Donald Trump - saying she's angry he chose to go to war with Iran.

    "I'm angry that Donald Trump has chosen to go to war in the Middle East - a war that there's not a clear plan of how to get out of. It's why we didn't want to enter this.

    "Yes it will have implications for our economy, I get that. We are monitoring very closely what's happening - trying to bring the oil and gas into the UK so that those supplies are there and get the prices down. We are monitoring the situation very carefully."

    Not produce it here though.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,083
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Nominations have closed for Holyrood

    Hey, you missed this.

    ‘ NEW: SNP chief in North Lanarkshire Tracy Carragher suspended and axed as Holyrood candidate over handling of scandal surrounding former SNP council boss Jordan Linden, who is now a convicted serial sex offender. ’

    https://x.com/connorgillies/status/2039322076255821970?s=61

    It was posted in the previous thread by DoctorG
    Yes, I said ‘you’ not DoctorG

    You just seem obsessed when it is one party and never comment when it is others.
    Yeah, i dislike some parties more than others.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,445

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Nominations have closed for Holyrood

    Hey, you missed this.

    ‘ NEW: SNP chief in North Lanarkshire Tracy Carragher suspended and axed as Holyrood candidate over handling of scandal surrounding former SNP council boss Jordan Linden, who is now a convicted serial sex offender. ’

    https://x.com/connorgillies/status/2039322076255821970?s=61

    It was posted in the previous thread by DoctorG
    Yes, I said ‘you’ not DoctorG

    You just seem obsessed when it is one party and never comment when it is others.
    Yeah, i dislike some parties more than others.
    Which doesn’t really explain why, when you try to position yourself as some self appointed expert here on local govt usually wise after the event, only comment on one or two and ignore others.

    But if it gets you through the day, crack on.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,019
    Assuming Trump doesn't change his mind (again?) and restart the war with Iran, where does that leave Israel? I've seen no suggestion that Netanyahu is going top call off his bombers, or, come to that, that Iran is going to stop attacking Israel?
    Or that the IDF are going to cease their genocidal activities in Lebanon.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,980
    dixiedean said:

    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    With that which we have.
    Bases for starters.
    And a Royal visit.
    Yes the question of the future of US bases is quite a significant lever. How could the US claim to be entitled to maintain bases on European territory if it is not prepared to use those bases to (convincingly) help guarantee European security?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,075
    How many wars have ended because the aggressor got bored and did the country attacked just shrug & return to the status quo ante?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,587

    dixiedean said:

    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    With that which we have.
    Bases for starters.
    And a Royal visit.
    Yes the question of the future of US bases is quite a significant lever. How could the US claim to be entitled to maintain bases on European territory if it is not prepared to use those bases to (convincingly) help guarantee European security?
    I am not a fan of massive US bases on our soil. However, being familiar with a few places that have lost military bases, I think we should be conscious of what we're wishing for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    It's not an April Fool however that he's named an airport in Florida after himself. That's not quite as vainglorious, but definitely in the same ballpark. And it's strange how used to this sort of thing we've become. We hardly batted an eyelid. Yet you couldn't imagine any previous president doing it while they were still president (though I do recall an aircraft carrier being named Ronald Reagan possibly when he was still alive). And you couldn't imagine any British politician doing it.
    London Blairport ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,071
    MAGA are indeed revolting but its not got much to do with this.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401
    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    The best news for those pro EU would be for Trump to announce he wants to leave NATO .

    What more would he have to do to highlight that the US is no longer an ally .

    Farage and Badenoch can they try and explain why we shouldn’t get closer to the EU .

    Because swapping one unreliable entity for another is not an improvement.

    We need to work independently, with like-minded allies.

    We should NEVER be in a position where a single foreign individual can wreck our defences. Whether that be someone in America, or someone in Europe.
    How do you work independently with like minded allies?
    That's an oxymoron.
    By keeping operational independence and the ability to work with allies.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,587
    Good April fool from the Sunday Sport, via Guido Fawkes:

    https://x.com/i/status/2039225914848854058

  • TazTaz Posts: 26,445
    So is it a ground war or peace. .

    ‘ 🚨 NEW: The U.S. and Iran are discussing a potential deal that would involve a ceasefire in exchange for Iran reopening the Strait of Hormuz, three U.S. officials tell Axios.’

    https://x.com/axios/status/2039359620477485281?s=61
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,083
    edited 4:01PM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Nominations have closed for Holyrood

    Hey, you missed this.

    ‘ NEW: SNP chief in North Lanarkshire Tracy Carragher suspended and axed as Holyrood candidate over handling of scandal surrounding former SNP council boss Jordan Linden, who is now a convicted serial sex offender. ’

    https://x.com/connorgillies/status/2039322076255821970?s=61

    It was posted in the previous thread by DoctorG
    Yes, I said ‘you’ not DoctorG

    You just seem obsessed when it is one party and never comment when it is others.
    Yeah, i dislike some parties more than others.
    Which doesn’t really explain why, when you try to position yourself as some self appointed expert here on local govt usually wise after the event, only comment on one or two and ignore others.

    But if it gets you through the day, crack on.
    I don't try and position myself as a self appointed expert, i talk about things i'm interested in which anyone else is welcome to argue with or ignore.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 135,202
    Trump will retain the support of MAGA regardless, as I posted on the last thread they even support deploying ground troops in Iran
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741

    Good April fool from the Sunday Sport, via Guido Fawkes:

    https://x.com/i/status/2039225914848854058

    What you thought that was clever or funny?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741
    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,728
    Back from panic buying fuel in Swansea. Couldn't see any problems (although yesterday I read one of Tesco's petrol station was shut).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765
    Mark Elias is as relentless as the Terminator (and a far better lawyer).

    I am listening to Ron Desantis talk about elections as he is about to sign a new voter suppression law. He is every bit as unhinged as Trump. Amazingly unhinged.

    As soon as he stops rambling and signs this bill, Florida will be sued. Stand by....

    https://x.com/marceelias/status/2039348685574660414
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,980

    dixiedean said:

    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    With that which we have.
    Bases for starters.
    And a Royal visit.
    Yes the question of the future of US bases is quite a significant lever. How could the US claim to be entitled to maintain bases on European territory if it is not prepared to use those bases to (convincingly) help guarantee European security?
    I am not a fan of massive US bases on our soil. However, being familiar with a few places that have lost military bases, I think we should be conscious of what we're wishing for.
    A prolonged construction boom in East Anglia with the population of Mildenhall-Lakenheath exploding as the area turns into the largest New Town seen in the UK for many decades, even if not quite on the scale of Milton Keynes?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,820
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    Not 100%.
    MAGA are genuinely making plans - though he'll be long gone before any serious work could start, so absent the new dictatorship after 2028, it won't happen.
    Stone Mountain would be more suitable.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 610
    edited 4:18PM
    Taz said:

    ‘ State of Scottish politics:

    - Labour candidate dropped b/c of alleged fraud
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged sexual offences
    - SNP candidate dropped after defending sex offender
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged benefit fraud
    - Reform candidate dropped over Covid loan

    - Two Reform candidates quit over anti-Muslim tweets
    - Two Reform candidates quit after being nominated by mistake
    - Green candidate blocked over Maggie Chapman complaint
    - Sarwar stroke comments
    - Offord George Michael joke‘


    https://x.com/joshpizpom/status/2039338041395863706?s=61

    Must also mention that Tim Eagle MSPs office employee Amanda Hampsey is standing for Reform in the Highland and Islands list, where she is in position 3. Nothing unusual in that, but Mr Eagle is a Tory MSP seeking re election. As far as I am aware, her employment ended today.

    She was elected as a Conservative councillor for Oban south and the isles, but is standing to become a Reform UK MSP. Looks like Argyll and Bute Council still have her listed as a Conservative on their website.

    https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/reform-candidate-standing-against-tory-msp-boss-after-refusi-431315/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,019
    edited 4:19PM
    HYUFD said:

    Trump will retain the support of MAGA regardless, as I posted on the last thread they even support deploying ground troops in Iran

    Not for nothing is the rhyming slang term for Americans the Septics. (Septic tanks=Yanks).
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 610
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    ‘ State of Scottish politics:

    - Labour candidate dropped b/c of alleged fraud
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged sexual offences
    - SNP candidate dropped after defending sex offender
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged benefit fraud
    - Reform candidate dropped over Covid loan

    - Two Reform candidates quit over anti-Muslim tweets
    - Two Reform candidates quit after being nominated by mistake
    - Green candidate blocked over Maggie Chapman complaint
    - Sarwar stroke comments
    - Offord George Michael joke‘


    https://x.com/joshpizpom/status/2039338041395863706?s=61

    Can I just say that when asked if I wanted a Scottish Parliament I voted no. I'll leave it there.
    No to Scottish parliament and yes to tax raising powers would have been the ultimate April fools vote (not sure if that combination was possible)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401
    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    That is offensive to pirates.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 476
    dixiedean said:

    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    With that which we have.
    Bases for starters.
    And a Royal visit.
    Utterly deluded.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,063

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    That is offensive to pirates.
    You know all those guidelines?

    Trump treats them as things he can just ignore.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,071
    DoctorG said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    ‘ State of Scottish politics:

    - Labour candidate dropped b/c of alleged fraud
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged sexual offences
    - SNP candidate dropped after defending sex offender
    - SNP candidate quit over alleged benefit fraud
    - Reform candidate dropped over Covid loan

    - Two Reform candidates quit over anti-Muslim tweets
    - Two Reform candidates quit after being nominated by mistake
    - Green candidate blocked over Maggie Chapman complaint
    - Sarwar stroke comments
    - Offord George Michael joke‘


    https://x.com/joshpizpom/status/2039338041395863706?s=61

    Can I just say that when asked if I wanted a Scottish Parliament I voted no. I'll leave it there.
    No to Scottish parliament and yes to tax raising powers would have been the ultimate April fools vote (not sure if that combination was possible)
    I could go on and on about my thoughts about the wisdom of that choice and its consequences but then I am not a remainer.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    That is offensive to pirates.
    You know all those guidelines?

    Trump treats them as things he can just ignore.
    Worse, he seems to take great delight in deliberately going against guidelines.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741
    HYUFD said:

    Trump will retain the support of MAGA regardless, as I posted on the last thread they even support deploying ground troops in Iran

    Am I right in thinking MAGA makes up less than 30% of the US population?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,830

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    That is offensive to pirates.
    Spot on Roger

    Who fears China the most?

    Trump
    Putin
    Netanyahu

    We have nothing to fear from China, everything to gain.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401
    Brixian59 said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    That is offensive to pirates.
    Spot on Roger

    Who fears China the most?

    Trump
    Putin
    Netanyahu

    We have nothing to fear from China, everything to gain.
    Utterly delusional.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,830
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    Sinophobia

    Sad
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,830
    Roger said:

    Good April fool from the Sunday Sport, via Guido Fawkes:

    https://x.com/i/status/2039225914848854058

    What you thought that was clever or funny?
    When's Paul Staines going to be linked to Epstein??
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,001
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Mail has a report today on how work has started at Mount Rushmore to add Trump's face.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15696415/Taking-shape-new-face-Mount-Rushmore.html

    April fool.
    Not 100%.
    MAGA are genuinely making plans - though he'll be long gone before any serious work could start, so absent the new dictatorship after 2028, it won't happen.
    Stone Mountain would be more suitable.
    Isn’t the MAGA aesthetic more Stone Island?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,830

    nico67 said:

    The best news for those pro EU would be for Trump to announce he wants to leave NATO .

    What more would he have to do to highlight that the US is no longer an ally .

    Farage and Badenoch can they try and explain why we shouldn’t get closer to the EU .

    Because swapping one unreliable entity for another is not an improvement.

    We need to work independently, with like-minded allies.

    We should NEVER be in a position where a single foreign individual can wreck our defences. Whether that be someone in America, or someone in Europe.
    Kemis too busy filling potholes with her new JCB toy.

    Hope she declares the gift

    Better still if the rancid family and Company started paying their due taxes
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 988
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be quite surprised if Trump really does leave NATO.

    Happy to have a bet with you if you like. What odds would you offer?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,019

    The UK should have nothing to do with China until China honours its agreement with the UK to maintain democracy and civil liberties in Hong Kong.

    China can not be trusted. It has demonstrated that with its own actions.

    China is at least consistent. Unlike Trump's America.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,703
    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    Close to China? What are you thinking.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765

    dixiedean said:

    scampi25 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bill Kristol thinks leaving NATO will be announced tonight to distract the media as he also announces TACO and leaving the war in Iran with fuck all to show for it.



    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol

    I assume that tonight Trump will head for the exits in Iran. He may try to disguise the retreat by announcing the U.S. is leaving NATO, which Trump will present as a liberation from ungrateful allies and a victory for America First.

    So he'll make a bad outcome far worse.

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2039319726954832002

    Constitutionally he doesn’t have the power to withdraw from NATO but he’ll do it via executive order then wait for the Supreme Court to rule in 2028.
    Total nightmare for the rest of NATO especially Brits. Do we continue working with US military because the exec order to leave is illegal and not backed by Congress or do we withdraw all co-operation assuming it is valid?
    We need to start playing hardball.
    With what?????
    With that which we have.
    Bases for starters.
    And a Royal visit.
    Yes the question of the future of US bases is quite a significant lever. How could the US claim to be entitled to maintain bases on European territory if it is not prepared to use those bases to (convincingly) help guarantee European security?
    I am not a fan of massive US bases on our soil. However, being familiar with a few places that have lost military bases, I think we should be conscious of what we're wishing for.
    A prolonged construction boom in East Anglia with the population of Mildenhall-Lakenheath exploding as the area turns into the largest New Town seen in the UK for many decades, even if not quite on the scale of Milton Keynes?
    It could have its own airport...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741
    Brixian59 said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    Sinophobia

    Sad
    I have three good friends one French and two English who were all living the good life in England and France and all three absolutely love it there. They are all in media one way or another so they are far from simpletons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,765
    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    Sinophobia

    Sad
    I have three good friends one French and two English who were all living the good life in England and France and all three absolutely love it there. They are all in media one way or another so they are far from simpletons.
    Non sequitur there, Roger.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,401

    The UK should have nothing to do with China until China honours its agreement with the UK to maintain democracy and civil liberties in Hong Kong.

    China can not be trusted. It has demonstrated that with its own actions.

    China is at least consistent. Unlike Trump's America.
    That is not a good thing.

    Consistently evil is worse than chaotically evil.

    One thing that makes Trump less awful than some of the worst of his possible successors, like Vance or Fucker Carlson, is that he is inconsistent.

    He is like an easily distracted child, moving on to the next thing that catches his eye.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,021
    edited 4:41PM

    The UK should have nothing to do with China until China honours its agreement with the UK to maintain democracy and civil liberties in Hong Kong.

    China can not be trusted. It has demonstrated that with its own actions.

    China is at least consistent. Unlike Trump's America.
    What is consistent about China signing up to "one country two systems" and then going back on their word less than thirty years on?

    It's comforting to think that we can deal with Trump by swapping a close relationship with one large country for another, but life isn't that simple. We need to distance ourselves from China too, because they are willing to use our trade dependence against us.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,071
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    Indeed.

    They have also been relentless in spying on British politicians.

    So, let's not pretend they are in any way 'good guys'. On the other hand, they exist and we will be trading with them. And they haven't actually threatened us lately, so that's a positive.
    Well, apart from the persistent spying of course. But yeah, we will be trading with them (or at least buying their goods which is their version of trade). I have no problem with that. But for goodness sake, lets not be delusional about who we are dealing with.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,760
    One of the less well-known poll findings during the Vietnam War: If asked an open-ended question on American strategy, a fairly large number said we should win, or get out. (It's been a while, but as I recall, something like 20 percent came up with that answer.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,405

    The UK should have nothing to do with China until China honours its agreement with the UK to maintain democracy and civil liberties in Hong Kong.

    China can not be trusted. It has demonstrated that with its own actions.

    China is at least consistent. Unlike Trump's America.
    Consistently criminal scum, in their current incarnation.

    At least America is only inconsistently criminal scum.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,741
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    I wonder how many of the six people who liked David's post have even been to China let alone have spent a serious amount of time there. One of the three I know was my producer and I know no one who is better travelled than him and he likes everything about it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,405
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    I wonder how many of the six people who liked David's post have even been to China let alone have spent a serious amount of time there. One of the three I know was my producer and I know no one who is better travelled than him and he likes everything about it
    I work for Chinese companies, and have for many years on and off, and had a Chinese grandmother.

    I flatter myself I know a fair amount about China. I haven't been there but that's because I'd get into trouble by saying things Winnie would disapprove of.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,090
    Brixian59 said:

    nico67 said:

    The best news for those pro EU would be for Trump to announce he wants to leave NATO .

    What more would he have to do to highlight that the US is no longer an ally .

    Farage and Badenoch can they try and explain why we shouldn’t get closer to the EU .

    Because swapping one unreliable entity for another is not an improvement.

    We need to work independently, with like-minded allies.

    We should NEVER be in a position where a single foreign individual can wreck our defences. Whether that be someone in America, or someone in Europe.
    Kemis too busy filling potholes with her new JCB toy.

    Hope she declares the gift

    Better still if the rancid family and Company started paying their due taxes
    For all your allegations, slurs, and personal attacks on Kemi she remains the leader in approval ratings at -9, ahead of all the rest with Starmer underwater at -42

    Also your anti NATO stance pro China is music to Putin's ears, as well as the toxic Iranian regime and their proxies

    No matter how much you post your anti west drivel, the UK will continue it's relationship with the US due to the value of trade and its arms supplies

    Trump will be gone before we know it, and long before we have any hope of replacing the US as a friend and ally

    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/voting-intention-trackers/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,090
    Roger said:

    Brixian59 said:

    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    The UK need to get close to China. They value stability above all else. Hopefully from a leading position in the EU. The US are a pirate state and we must cut ties.

    The Chinese regime are genocidal, big brother maniacs who have destroyed our industrial base by stealing IP and undercutting our producers, who have no interest whatsoever in any of the principles that we stand for and, for good measure, have the biggest bubble in the history of the world.

    I will give you that they are pretty consistent in all of these points but consistency can be overrated, even in the time of the Donald.
    Sinophobia

    Sad
    I have three good friends one French and two English who were all living the good life in England and France and all three absolutely love it there. They are all in media one way or another so they are far from simpletons.
    You need to get out of your bubble
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 476

    The UK should have nothing to do with China until China honours its agreement with the UK to maintain democracy and civil liberties in Hong Kong.

    China can not be trusted. It has demonstrated that with its own actions.

    China is at least consistent. Unlike Trump's America.
    What is consistent about China signing up to "one country two systems" and then going back on their word less than thirty years on?

    It's comforting to think that we can deal with Trump by swapping a close relationship with one large country for another, but life isn't that simple. We need to distance ourselves from China too, because they are willing to use our trade dependence against us.
    It's the same with the EU. I speak with sadness but they're not especially reliable allies and some don't even pay a fair share to NATO. Living without the US alliance may well be necessary but it won't be cheap and we're years from being ready as is most of Europe. It means some seriously hard choices on both tax and welfare for a long time -I doubt very much if the will is there on the part of the politicians or the people
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