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It’s a bold strategy, let’s see if it pays off for Angela Rayner – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740
    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    So long as the war continues, the Epstein files are off the news and some of the stuff that has dropped in the last fortnight has been particularly damning for Trump.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2036096164198551945

    Keir Starmer accepts the UK is not on a war footing at the moment

    JENKIN: Why is (the UK) not on a war footing now?
    STARMER: Because the strategic review commits us to a war footing, and we now need to put the funding in place in order to get there.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Mediators are trying to convene talks in Islamabad later this week, with Mohammad-Bagher Ghalibaf, the parliamentary speaker, leading Iran’s delegation and Witkoff, Kushner, and possibly JD Vance representing the US, Axios reports.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,649
    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    I doubt Trump justifies the war even to himself as a distraction from Epstein but it's the thing leaders looking for distraction do.

    I don't know the history but I suspect Galtieri didn't justify the operation against the Falklands as a distraction from his internal woes.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,186

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    The last Tory economic fuel crisis package was an object lasso in how to panic and piss billions up a wall.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086
    Wow !!

    ‘ ISRAELI OFFICIALS BELIEVE THE US AND IRAN COULD HOLD TALKS IN ISLAMABAD AS SOON AS THIS WEEK - REUTERS SOURCES’


    https://x.com/wallstengine/status/2036101427861594225?s=61
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,649

    nico67 said:

    We went through all this drama because Trump didn’t like Obamas name on a deal !

    Trump can spin this but he capitulated and the Iranian regime remains .

    Good afternoon

    I would caution against thinking this is over

    An utterly untrustworthy Trump and a volatile Netanyahu does not give me confidence that this ends quickly
    I am sure you're right to lack confidence. The slightly hopeful sign is that Iran and the US seem somewhat interested in negotiation.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,186

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2036096164198551945

    Keir Starmer accepts the UK is not on a war footing at the moment

    JENKIN: Why is (the UK) not on a war footing now?
    STARMER: Because the strategic review commits us to a war footing, and we now need to put the funding in place in order to get there.

    Jenkins accuses Starmer if being Party Political after he and Deshi show utter contempt for common sense in complete denial of 14 years of gross Tory cuts and underfunding in defence.

    They seriously do need sectioning under the mental health act if they are suggesting we should have declared war on Iran and joined illegal action with the paucity of operational equipment and man power the Tories left behind.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086
    Brixian59 said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    The last Tory economic fuel crisis package was an object lasso in how to panic and piss billions up a wall.
    As well as help spike inflation
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,506
    FF43 said:

    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    I doubt Trump justifies the war even to himself as a distraction from Epstein but it's the thing leaders looking for distraction do.

    I don't know the history but I suspect Galtieri didn't justify the operation against the Falklands as a distraction from his internal woes.
    Internally, within the regime, he did acknowledge that it was a distraction. It was a desperate last throw of the dice by the Junta.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,086

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Pensioners, benefits claimants and public sector workers have already enjoyed their generosity
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Looking at YouGovs latest leadership figures from this morning, Farage still has more 'strong support' gross than Badenoch but their gross 'all support' are now identical and she has fewer negatives. If this persists then the VI should start narrowing further between Con and Ref unless Con brand is a significant drag and/or Reform brand a significsnt boost on party polling.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Truss gave everyone free money too. It crashed the economy.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,959
    edited March 23
    You couldn't make it up
    HS2 the superfast. Railway is likely to run at reduced speed to save money


    Billions wasted.

    HS2 trains could run slower than planned to save money - BBC News https://share.google/JEjub8jHZo6jL2h3I
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,489
    edited March 23
    Taz said:

    Wow !!

    ‘ ISRAELI OFFICIALS BELIEVE THE US AND IRAN COULD HOLD TALKS IN ISLAMABAD AS SOON AS THIS WEEK - REUTERS SOURCES’


    https://x.com/wallstengine/status/2036101427861594225?s=61

    Iran promises not to build the bomb.
    The US and Israel promise not to try and overthrow the Iranian government.
    Iran opens the Straits of Hormuz.

    Crisis over.

    (Fingers crossed.)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082

    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    So long as the war continues, the Epstein files are off the news and some of the stuff that has dropped in the last fortnight has been particularly damning for Trump.
    You all misunderstand Trump. He’s merely trying to sort out the mess left by Barak Biden.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,842
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Wow !!

    ‘ ISRAELI OFFICIALS BELIEVE THE US AND IRAN COULD HOLD TALKS IN ISLAMABAD AS SOON AS THIS WEEK - REUTERS SOURCES’


    https://x.com/wallstengine/status/2036101427861594225?s=61

    Iran promises not to build the bomb.
    The US and Israel promise not to try and overthrow the Iranian government.
    Iran opens the Straits of Hormuz.

    Crisis over.

    (Fingers crossed.)
    Fingers crossed as in everyone around the table will have their fingers crossed because they won't telling the truth?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,082

    You couldn't make it up
    HS2 the superfast. Railway is likely to run at reduced speed to save money


    Billions wasted.

    HS2 trains could run slower than planned to save money - BBC News https://share.google/JEjub8jHZo6jL2h3I

    It will give the bats time to fly out of the tunnels.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Brixian59 said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    The last Tory economic fuel crisis package was an object lasso in how to panic and piss billions up a wall.
    Yes, thars the last economic support package i am referring to.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    edited March 23

    You couldn't make it up
    HS2 the superfast. Railway is likely to run at reduced speed to save money


    Billions wasted.

    HS2 trains could run slower than planned to save money - BBC News https://share.google/JEjub8jHZo6jL2h3I

    It will give the bats time to fly out of the tunnels.
    You don’t need to make it up - it’s a set of know nothing idiots trying to save money.

    Slower trains won’t save money when we need 4 more trains to create a regular timetable but no-one involved in the decision will have ever thought about that type of slightly secondary issue.

  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,372
    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Pensioners, benefits claimants and public sector workers have already enjoyed their generosity
    I'm struggling to think what free money I've received from my public sector employer.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,027
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Wow !!

    ‘ ISRAELI OFFICIALS BELIEVE THE US AND IRAN COULD HOLD TALKS IN ISLAMABAD AS SOON AS THIS WEEK - REUTERS SOURCES’


    https://x.com/wallstengine/status/2036101427861594225?s=61

    Iran promises not to build the bomb.
    The US and Israel promise not to try and overthrow the Iranian government.
    Iran opens the Straits of Hormuz.

    Crisis over.

    (Fingers crossed.)
    Plausible given:
    - Iran in no place to build the bomb while being bombarded daily
    - The US and Israel have plainly failed to overthrow the Iranian government, despite their efforts. And they don't have the appetite for a land war that would be needed to make it happen.
    - Iran knows the Strait is a bargaining chip that has worked well and do so again in the future if the US or Israel renege.

    My concern is one side holds out for too much. Such as no Uranium at all or full sanction relief. Or the IRGC just refuse to stop firing missiles.

    But the potential for the deal is there. In game theory, the status quo (or escalation) results in a loss for both parties. De-escalation gets no one their optimal result but better than they are right now.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,891
    And she's not even one of the totally mental ones.
    (I know it's a referendum on legal reforms but Meloni did tie herself to its success)

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    🚨BREAKING: ITALIAN EXIT POLL SHOWS MELONI LOSS

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/2036083622638145566?s=20
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,376
    Some reports emerging on X that US bases in Kuwait have just been hit
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Truss gave everyone free money too. It crashed the economy.
    Nigel Farage told us that Truss's budget was the "most Conservative budget since 1986". Both of you can't be right.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,842

    You couldn't make it up
    HS2 the superfast. Railway is likely to run at reduced speed to save money


    Billions wasted.

    HS2 trains could run slower than planned to save money - BBC News https://share.google/JEjub8jHZo6jL2h3I

    It's right to say that building it for more than 300kmh was a ridiculous decision but I doubt changing the specification now would save that much money.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited March 23
    "14.23 GMT
    Exit polls suggest Meloni narrowly lost contentious referendum — snap analysis
    Angela Giuffrida in Rome

    Exit polls on Monday appeared to suggest Italy’s prime minister has narrowly lost a contentious referendum on judicial reform."

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2026/mar/23/local-eu-elections-slovenia-italy-france-latest-updates-news
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,932
    Scott_xP said:

    News networks just interviewed a rambling old man on TV. He's delusional. Thinks he's the President.

    Actually, he thinks Gavin Newsom is President!
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133
    Stereodog said:

    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Pensioners, benefits claimants and public sector workers have already enjoyed their generosity
    I'm struggling to think what free money I've received from my public sector employer.
    Reform candidates on the other hand seem to well-represented amongst the COVID free money recipients
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    So long as the war continues, the Epstein files are off the news and some of the stuff that has dropped in the last fortnight has been particularly damning for Trump.
    You all misunderstand Trump. He’s merely trying to sort out the mess left by Barak Biden.
    He is currently not very impressed with "dumb" "President Gavin Newscum". Maybe Newsom dropped this particularly b******.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,375
    edited March 23
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Wow !!

    ‘ ISRAELI OFFICIALS BELIEVE THE US AND IRAN COULD HOLD TALKS IN ISLAMABAD AS SOON AS THIS WEEK - REUTERS SOURCES’


    https://x.com/wallstengine/status/2036101427861594225?s=61

    Iran promises not to build the bomb.
    The US and Israel promise not to try and overthrow the Iranian government.
    Iran opens the Straits of Hormuz.

    Crisis over.

    (Fingers crossed.)
    Iran promises not to build the bomb.

    Hmmm.

    Need some heft behind it if they do.

    A ) The US and Israel will bomb the shit out of Iran again.

    B ) Meanwhile, the GCC spends an insane amount on missile defence. From Ukraine.

    C ) Oh, and America and Pakistan will give the Saudis 10 nukes. Pick your 10 Iranian cities to wave goodbye.

    D ) And for good measure, the US will mine the Straits of Hormuz. They won't become live until codes are entered. Or somebody tries to move them.

    Assume the Iranians will try to cheat - and build that into the peace deal.

    (And at some point, very soon, Putin has to pay a very high price for siding with Iran at the deadly risk to American servicemen and women.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,891
    𝐃𝐈𝐆𝐁
    @_DIGB
    3h
    Iran down the pub on Friday after Trump backed down

    https://x.com/_DIGB/status/2036051464645157181?s=20
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    You couldn't make it up
    HS2 the superfast. Railway is likely to run at reduced speed to save money


    Billions wasted.

    HS2 trains could run slower than planned to save money - BBC News https://share.google/JEjub8jHZo6jL2h3I

    There's still the increased capacity which is very much needed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    So long as the war continues, the Epstein files are off the news and some of the stuff that has dropped in the last fortnight has been particularly damning for Trump.
    You all misunderstand Trump. He’s merely trying to sort out the mess left by Barak Biden.
    Barrack Hussain O'Biden please.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,649
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Wow !!

    ‘ ISRAELI OFFICIALS BELIEVE THE US AND IRAN COULD HOLD TALKS IN ISLAMABAD AS SOON AS THIS WEEK - REUTERS SOURCES’


    https://x.com/wallstengine/status/2036101427861594225?s=61

    Iran promises not to build the bomb.
    The US and Israel promise not to try and overthrow the Iranian government.
    Iran opens the Straits of Hormuz.

    Crisis over.

    (Fingers crossed.)
    Yes, but the first protects against the second happening and vice versa. So I think the subtext is that an agreement will be in place for just long enough for Iran to rebuild and improve on its weapons arsenal while Israel in particular will be keen to get back to bombing Iran very quickly to forestall that.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,172
    Stereodog said:

    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Pensioners, benefits claimants and public sector workers have already enjoyed their generosity
    I'm struggling to think what free money I've received from my public sector employer.
    Some (e.g. medics) have had huge pay rises. Others, he might be referring to the generosity of pensions in the public sector.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,891

    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    So long as the war continues, the Epstein files are off the news and some of the stuff that has dropped in the last fortnight has been particularly damning for Trump.
    You all misunderstand Trump. He’s merely trying to sort out the mess left by Barak Biden.
    Barrack Hussain O'Biden please.
    'Sleepy Joe has shit in my pants again!'
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,334

    OT - Times sets a new record for use of the word 'may' in a heading. Another benefit of just making your stories up I suppose...

    In other media watch snippets - The Telegraph has managed make a story out of John Terry putting some approving emojis under a Rupert Lowe tweet. That's it, the whole story.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2026/03/22/john-terry-appears-to-back-rupert-lowe-call-for-burqa-ban/?recomm_id=02251515-b15c-434a-a91e-709d821f0d17
    The Daily Express YouTube channel clips up every Rupert Lowe session on the Public Accounts Committee.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740
    DoctorG said:

    Full figures from the poll mentioned earlier

    Lord ashcroft poll for Scottish parliament

    Constituency:

    SNP - 39%
    Ref - 14%
    Lab - 12%
    Grn - 11%
    LD - 10%
    Con - 9%

    Regional

    SNP - 31%
    Grn - 17%
    Ref - 15%
    Lab - 12%
    Con - 10%
    LD - 9%
    Other - 1%

    theres no way Greens are getting 11% on the constituency vote - they've only declared they are standing in approx 5 seats so far

    Aren't we allowed to slag off non-BPC Ashcroft polls because they are often inaccurate based on often absurd application of data from other polls?
  • 𝐃𝐈𝐆𝐁
    @_DIGB
    3h
    Iran down the pub on Friday after Trump backed down

    https://x.com/_DIGB/status/2036051464645157181?s=20

    Trump is absolutely shi'ite.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,372

    Stereodog said:

    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Pensioners, benefits claimants and public sector workers have already enjoyed their generosity
    I'm struggling to think what free money I've received from my public sector employer.
    Some (e.g. medics) have had huge pay rises. Others, he might be referring to the generosity of pensions in the public sector.
    Well I've never had a huge pay rise and I suspect my pension is a lot less ample than many on this site. However that is beside the point because none of that is free money as it's still a wage for services rendered. You might think the wage is too generous but it's hardly free money.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    DougSeal said:

    So the point in this war, was…

    To smokescreen the Epstein files and it has worked like a Swiss watch.
    I don't understand this. The whole point of a historic allegation is that it's not current. It could re-emerge at any time.
    So long as the war continues, the Epstein files are off the news and some of the stuff that has dropped in the last fortnight has been particularly damning for Trump.
    You all misunderstand Trump. He’s merely trying to sort out the mess left by Barak Biden.
    Barrack Hussain O'Biden please.
    'Sleepy Joe has shit in my pants again!'
    Trump probably believes Joe Biden stinks when he is in Trump's orbit. Although the uncanny bit is everyone else smells of wet turd in Trump's orbit too. Funny that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 23,257
    Trumps going into business to run Hormuz with the Ayatollah now?

    Can things get any crazier? With Trump at the helm. Yes,. Of course they can! 😂🤣
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 23,257

    DoctorG said:

    Full figures from the poll mentioned earlier

    Lord ashcroft poll for Scottish parliament

    Constituency:

    SNP - 39%
    Ref - 14%
    Lab - 12%
    Grn - 11%
    LD - 10%
    Con - 9%

    Regional

    SNP - 31%
    Grn - 17%
    Ref - 15%
    Lab - 12%
    Con - 10%
    LD - 9%
    Other - 1%

    theres no way Greens are getting 11% on the constituency vote - they've only declared they are standing in approx 5 seats so far

    Aren't we allowed to slag off non-BPC Ashcroft polls because they are often inaccurate based on often absurd application of data from other polls?
    The Good Lord wasn't wildly different from all other pollsters with his final poll before the 2024 general election. Lab and Ref were overstated, Con understated, which was the case with most of them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566

    NEW THREAD

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740

    Taz said:

    😳

    Journalist:

    "Who is Steve Witkoff speaking with in Iran?"

    🇺🇸🇮🇷 Trump:

    "A top person"

    Journalist:

    "Who is it?"

    Trump:

    "I can't.

    I don't [want] them to be killed.

    https://x.com/marionawfal/status/2036082375944212773?s=61

    He’s worried about the Israeli veto.
    "I have no control over my own foreign policy"
    "...nor my own anal sphincter".
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,134

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Truss gave everyone free money too. It crashed the economy.
    Nigel Farage told us that Truss's budget was the "most Conservative budget since 1986". Both of you can't be right.
    Well Farage is a cock and I am a legend. This is not advanced calculus
    I can never read the word 'legend' without thinking of feet.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,133

    Stereodog said:

    Taz said:

    Afternoon all.
    Batshit crazy times
    Wonder what Reeves will wheel out tomorrow and if it will have the same impact as the lasy ecomonic support package

    During COVID, Boris gave everyone free money. That sounds more like the sort of progress we want to see.

    If Starmer wants to be more popular, free money is the answer. It worked for Boris.
    Pensioners, benefits claimants and public sector workers have already enjoyed their generosity
    I'm struggling to think what free money I've received from my public sector employer.
    Some (e.g. medics) have had huge pay rises. Others, he might be referring to the generosity of pensions in the public sector.
    Contributory pensions, all mainly now average salary since a few years ago and as per their employment Ts and Cs?

    Disclaimer, never been public sector and barring 4 years as an employee, entirely responsible for my pension, health, life and employment insurances.

    Just get pissed off with the "beggar thy neighbour" attacks on public sector employees, how would the attackers feel if their employer took back their contributions to employees' pensions?
    A la Maxwell and others.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,740
    Leon said:

    Fuel shortages in Australia


    “The Australian government acknowledges that six oil tankers from Malaysia, Singapore, and South Korea, expected to arrive next month, have been canceled.

    Today, 147 petrol stations ran out of petrol or diesel”

    https://x.com/sprinterpress/status/2035720933881602385?s=46

    Jeezo. This really is happening, isn’t it? How long before the great British driving public starts to panic and we see long queues at petrol stations?

    A Daily Telegraph journalist hostile to the government of the day sets off the fuel crisis hare...
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    tlg86 said:

    You couldn't make it up
    HS2 the superfast. Railway is likely to run at reduced speed to save money


    Billions wasted.

    HS2 trains could run slower than planned to save money - BBC News https://share.google/JEjub8jHZo6jL2h3I

    It's right to say that building it for more than 300kmh was a ridiculous decision but I doubt changing the specification now would save that much money.
    Well it will save a tiny bit of track maintenance costs but supposedly it adds £150-200m as 3 extra trains will be required..
  • Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Eabhal said:

    MikeL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    scampi25 said:

    NAE but is not the government gaining a big tax windfall right now on fuel taxes? Why then not cut the tax rate and reduce pump costs as has happened already in Spain for example?

    For every 6 penny increase the Gov't gains 1p. So on diesel the gov't is pretty much getting the full tax hike pencilled in already
    Yes, that's right.

    But for anyone who doesn't know, the Govt only gains VAT. Fuel duty is a fixed number of pence per litre so no gain in Fuel duty.

    So if net price up 5p, VAT up 1p (ie 20% of 5p) - so total price up 6p.

    However the point is if the public is spending more on petrol they will be spending less on other things, so the VAT take on everything else will go down.

    Now some things are zero rated but big picture is Govt may actually gain very little overall.
    Given that so many of the basics are zero rated and that fuel is an essential for the majority of people, I think you are wrong that the Govt will gain little overall.
    Depends on just how severe the depression is.

    I think there is an argument for a reduced tax on fuel but the consensus is it’s one of the “best” taxes to levy - unavoidable, simple, inelastic, and on personal transport highly progressive. The only better alternative is probably income tax.

    Doing it in a fuel crisis makes sense short term but in the long term it’s a disaster - this sense that the government will always come to the rescue is why we are so vulnerable to crises, and why our debt is so high. £50 billion in 2022 and wr haven’t learnt the lesson.
    It is very regressive on personal transport. Always has been, but today when new vehicles are either hybrids or electric it is more so.

    Someone going to a minimum wage job in a 10 year old banger is paying a far higher percentage of their income in fuel duty than someone going to work in their new Tesla.

    By decile of income, the poorest pay far, far, far more as a percentage of income on fuel duty. The richest pay far less as a percentage of income. Which is how progressive or regressive taxation is measured.
    But it’s the wrong measure. Fuel duty is related to consumption of fuel not the income of the user
    Oh absolutely you can debate whether progressive taxation is a good idea or not, but the word has a meaning. It means that the proportion of tax paid goes up as income goes up, versus regressive taxation which is the proportion of tax paid goes up as income goes down.

    Fuel duty is exceptionally regressive. It is one of the most regressive taxes we have. VAT, especially since most essentials (besides fuel) are zero-rated tends to scale with income. Fuel duty does not. The poorest pay considerably more proportionately out of their income than the richer deciles do.

    There are not many major taxes we have that are as regressive as fuel duty. Yet Eabhal falsely calls it progressive - that is simply wrong as a matter of fact, setting aside any debate as to whether progressive taxation is a good or bad idea.
    You have a completely perverted understanding of what a low-income household looks like. 40% of the bottom quintile income households don’t have a car at all.
    Because they’re mostly not working.

    Look at those working minimum wage in F&B or doing shifts in hospitals or factories…
    They don’t drive anywhere near as much on higher salaries, even after accounting for the fact car ownership is lower.

    I think you can make an argument for cutting fuel duty but the progressive one is nonsense. It would much better to take £50 billion off NICs, or council tax for low band households.
    In major cities, with widespread, *frequent* public transport, the poor(er) often don’t drive

    Though many, in parts of London (for example) have to, due to poor transport links locally.

    Outside the cities it is a very different story - if you don’t drive, you often can’t work.
    Agree with that entirely - it’s a bit of a strawman response though. As I said, a progressive tax cut that doesn’t discriminate against those in work but don’t use a car much would be a NICs cut. Or £50 billion investment in public transport which everyone benefits from.

    If you cut fuel duty, the vast majority of the saving is hoovered up by the richest households.
    But that is changing as EVs grow in market share. If you drive around the Cotswolds (or West London), every other expensive house has a fast charger in the drive way. So they are fuel duty immune and paying domestic rate for their ‘leccy.

    EV take up is much higher among the richer income groups.
    Yes the top 10% all now have an EV that they pay almost nothing to charge, even if it’s a second or 3rd car.

    Fuel duty becomes more regressive every day.
    It will take some time for that to happen given that car ownership and usage is still skewed to the better off.
    Fuel usage, rather than car usage, is however skewed to the lower incomes. The second and third deciles rely on old cars to get to work, and are massively affected by increases in the petrol price.
    That’s not true. Car ownership is pretty high on middling incomes but mileage is much lower than those on top incomes.
    It’s not to do with mileage, it’s to do with proportion of salary required to run a car that’s a requirement to work.
    It’s a tax cut which reduces costs for the top quintile twice as much as it does the second quintile. It’s absolutely crap as something to help the kind of household you’re talking about - particularly if it’s funded by income tax/NICs.

    (I say this with a top 5% income driving 17,000 miles a year - it would be brilliant news for me)
    The top quintile provide considerably more than twice as much income tax/NICs than the second quintile do, so you've proven how regressive it is with your own data.

    Progressive/regressive is as a proportion of income.

    That's before considering the top quintile are most likely to own an EV and spend £0 on fuel duty.
    I think it’s…

    First year £20 then £640 per year for five years before the expensive car supplement ends and VED drops to £195 per annum.

    Assuming the better off spend over £50k on an EV.
    I’ve been looking to dump the diesel.
    EVs ain’t the deal you were expecting.
    :(
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