Contrary to reports from Axios, U.S. President Donald J. Trump states that the United States “knew nothing” about Wednesday’s attack by Israel against Iran’s South Pars Gas Field, adding that “Qatar was in no way, shape, or form, involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. Unfortunately, Iran did not know this, or any of the pertinent facts pertaining to the South Pars attack, and unjustifiably and unfairly attacked a portion of Qatar's LNG Gas facility.”
President Trump states following today’s attack by Israel and retaliatory strikes by Iran, “NO MORE ATTACKS WILL BE MADE BY ISRAEL pertaining to this extremely important and valuable South Pars Field unless Iran unwisely decides to attack a very innocent, in this case, Qatar - In which instance the United States of America, with or without the help or consent of Israel, will massively blow up the entirety of the South Pars Gas Field at an amount of strength and power that Iran has never seen or witnessed before.”
Trump still believes he's in control of events. When you go to war you're in control only of your own forces.
He's paranoid of not even that. Hence the over-reaction to those reminding troops they mustn't obey illegal orders.
Trump has been mugged off by the Israeli regime.
He’s probably just realising it.
Hook Line Sinker
Bibi has played him for a complete fool.
Regime change in Israel is the quickest way for peace in the region.
The irony is that the Conman-in-Chief seems to have fallen for the sort of chicanery that has been a hallmark of his entire career.
Maybe he's losing his touch as his mind turns to tapioca.
Beautiful morning here today and a world away from the horrors of the middle east and Ukraine
I woke with this 'just make it stop' and despair that it is not going to
Madmen, and they are all men, Trump, Netanyahu, Irans regime, Hamas, Hizbollah, Putin are all malign dangerous fanatics and it is the innocents who pay the price
Contrary to reports from Axios, U.S. President Donald J. Trump states that the United States “knew nothing” about Wednesday’s attack by Israel against Iran’s South Pars Gas Field, adding that “Qatar was in no way, shape, or form, involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. Unfortunately, Iran did not know this, or any of the pertinent facts pertaining to the South Pars attack, and unjustifiably and unfairly attacked a portion of Qatar's LNG Gas facility.”
President Trump states following today’s attack by Israel and retaliatory strikes by Iran, “NO MORE ATTACKS WILL BE MADE BY ISRAEL pertaining to this extremely important and valuable South Pars Field unless Iran unwisely decides to attack a very innocent, in this case, Qatar - In which instance the United States of America, with or without the help or consent of Israel, will massively blow up the entirety of the South Pars Gas Field at an amount of strength and power that Iran has never seen or witnessed before.”
Trump still believes he's in control of events. When you go to war you're in control only of your own forces.
Yes. It is not looking great for this intervention.
I don't see what can now be achieved for it, other than an embarassing cessation of hostilities. Which is very sad for Iran's people.
What you really want is for the army to go over to the Shah, turn on the IRGC, and then it's game over for the regime. But I feel the attacks have united the two.
A more thoughtful US might have considered all the historical precedents there are for people rallying to their governments, even unpleasant or evil ones, once under attack from an enemy, and the lack of examples of where dropping bombs on people has led to fruitful political change.
There have certainly been big pro-regime protests, but I'm not sure they're indicative of a rally - I would imagine the attendees already had a firm view.
However, the regime remains very intact, and very in control of the streets.
To negotiate from a strong position, Trump must stop the flow of Iranian oil and gas to Iran-sympathetic powers, and re-start the flow of Gulf oil to the West.
I think I would probably just non-violently comandeer the tankers currently being sent to China, pay off the crews, and either keep them anchored somewhere or re-route them West. That way Iran is getting no oil out, and China won't pay for oil and gas it's not getting.
So widening the war and involving other great powers in the conflict?
She has a valid point in terms of that traditional British value of "keeping our word". Migrants came here on the basis of being able to build a new life and get permanant residance after 5 years.
Boo hoo sob, the reason the country is in such a state is bleeding heart liberals happy to give anybody but their own people oodles of largesse. Charity should start at home.
Absolutely.
This is purely about restricting access to benefits. Quite right too.
What Rayner doesn’t say is where the money will come from if we stick to 5 years. Changjng the rules retrospectively. So what. Happens all the time.
It is not just the workers who came under the Boriswave but they brought plenty of economically inactive dependents too. In some cases several of them.
We have to start paying for them when they’ve contributed sod all. The vast majority of Boriswavers will never contribute more than they take out. We must have been crazy. The telegraph did a good series of articles on it.
No one is saying they are not welcome or cannot stay. They are saying you have to wait a little longer to get your grubby paws on taxpayers cash.
Is the translation of Islam too subtle for the left?
It means submission
You don’t get to guide Islam in your whimsical ways; you submit, or else
Oh my God, how much bullshit can one person post? “Islam” derives from the word for peace, and submission here means submitting oneself to God’s will, i.e. being a good Muslim by practising the five pillars, prayer, charity, fasting during Ramadan etc. The Quran explicitly says that there is no compulsion in religion. It is up to the individual to choose their own path.
you are having a giraffe now, anybody knows it is used by "SOME PEOPLE" as an excuse to do what they want to do , bit like Christianity many many moons ago used that to justify their twisted minds and actions. Trying to pretend otherwise is pretty pathetic and usual for the wishy washy liberal cowardy custards in this country.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
What are your Iranian friends’ opinions of the son of the Shah? From a distance he seems excessively dim to carry all the expectations of many of those who want regime change. Not the least part of his dimness is thinking Trump is going to give any real help to his cause.
Dimness is not necessarily a bad thing in a constitutional monarch (which would be the plan). You want a uniting figurehead, not necessarily a genius of statecraft.
Contrary to reports from Axios, U.S. President Donald J. Trump states that the United States “knew nothing” about Wednesday’s attack by Israel against Iran’s South Pars Gas Field, adding that “Qatar was in no way, shape, or form, involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. Unfortunately, Iran did not know this, or any of the pertinent facts pertaining to the South Pars attack, and unjustifiably and unfairly attacked a portion of Qatar's LNG Gas facility.”
President Trump states following today’s attack by Israel and retaliatory strikes by Iran, “NO MORE ATTACKS WILL BE MADE BY ISRAEL pertaining to this extremely important and valuable South Pars Field unless Iran unwisely decides to attack a very innocent, in this case, Qatar - In which instance the United States of America, with or without the help or consent of Israel, will massively blow up the entirety of the South Pars Gas Field at an amount of strength and power that Iran has never seen or witnessed before.”
Trump still believes he's in control of events. When you go to war you're in control only of your own forces.
Yes. It is not looking great for this intervention.
I don't see what can now be achieved for it, other than an embarassing cessation of hostilities. Which is very sad for Iran's people.
What you really want is for the army to go over to the Shah, turn on the IRGC, and then it's game over for the regime. But I feel the attacks have united the two.
A more thoughtful US might have considered all the historical precedents there are for people rallying to their governments, even unpleasant or evil ones, once under attack from an enemy, and the lack of examples of where dropping bombs on people has led to fruitful political change.
There have certainly been big pro-regime protests, but I'm not sure they're indicative of a rally - I would imagine the attendees already had a firm view.
However, the regime remains very intact, and very in control of the streets.
To negotiate from a strong position, Trump must stop the flow of Iranian oil and gas to Iran-sympathetic powers, and re-start the flow of Gulf oil to the West.
I think I would probably just non-violently comandeer the tankers currently being sent to China, pay off the crews, and either keep them anchored somewhere or re-route them West. That way Iran is getting no oil out, and China won't pay for oil and gas it's not getting.
So widening the war and involving other great powers in the conflict?
Yep, that has never gone wrong before.
I would not have got into the war in the first place. However, now that Trump is in it, the situation whereby Gulf oil exports are effectively stopped and Iranian ones may continue unhindered isn't really viable if there is to be a successful negotiated peace.
Contrary to reports from Axios, U.S. President Donald J. Trump states that the United States “knew nothing” about Wednesday’s attack by Israel against Iran’s South Pars Gas Field, adding that “Qatar was in no way, shape, or form, involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. Unfortunately, Iran did not know this, or any of the pertinent facts pertaining to the South Pars attack, and unjustifiably and unfairly attacked a portion of Qatar's LNG Gas facility.”
President Trump states following today’s attack by Israel and retaliatory strikes by Iran, “NO MORE ATTACKS WILL BE MADE BY ISRAEL pertaining to this extremely important and valuable South Pars Field unless Iran unwisely decides to attack a very innocent, in this case, Qatar - In which instance the United States of America, with or without the help or consent of Israel, will massively blow up the entirety of the South Pars Gas Field at an amount of strength and power that Iran has never seen or witnessed before.”
Trump still believes he's in control of events. When you go to war you're in control only of your own forces.
He's paranoid of not even that. Hence the over-reaction to those reminding troops they mustn't obey illegal orders.
Trump has been mugged off by the Israeli regime.
He’s probably just realising it.
Hook Line Sinker
Bibi has played him for a complete fool.
Regime change in Israel is the quickest way for peace in the region.
The irony is that the Conman-in-Chief seems to have fallen for the sort of chicanery that has been a hallmark of his entire career.
Maybe he's losing his touch as his mind turns to tapioca.
The Queens simpleton couldn't even make money from casinos. Watching him walk into the quagmire has been not so much predictable as inevitable. There have been several vulgar oafs in the White House, there have been several hapless fools. I think no single President has combined vulgarity, arrogance and foolishness to anything like the same degree. Still at least the old dotard can be assured that his place in history is undoubted: the worst man to hold the office, and the single most incompetent President in American history.
Yep. This is what the future looks like if Farage gets in.
Some of us care about this country's liberal traditions. If you don't then you may well get what you deserve.
I care about this country’s liberal traditions. Which is why I don’t want bigots in charge.
If you won't confront the Islamic issue, that's what you'll probably get. Don't complain that you weren't warned.
It is pathetic, it is bigots who pretend all is well that are causing the unrest, supporting the bigots we have allowed into the country who want to recreate the shithole society they came from. People who do not want to assimilate into the country that takes them in should be assisted to go back to the life/country they really want.
Contrary to reports from Axios, U.S. President Donald J. Trump states that the United States “knew nothing” about Wednesday’s attack by Israel against Iran’s South Pars Gas Field, adding that “Qatar was in no way, shape, or form, involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. Unfortunately, Iran did not know this, or any of the pertinent facts pertaining to the South Pars attack, and unjustifiably and unfairly attacked a portion of Qatar's LNG Gas facility.”
President Trump states following today’s attack by Israel and retaliatory strikes by Iran, “NO MORE ATTACKS WILL BE MADE BY ISRAEL pertaining to this extremely important and valuable South Pars Field unless Iran unwisely decides to attack a very innocent, in this case, Qatar - In which instance the United States of America, with or without the help or consent of Israel, will massively blow up the entirety of the South Pars Gas Field at an amount of strength and power that Iran has never seen or witnessed before.”
Israel knows what it is doing - by attacking South Pars it guranteed a response against Ras Laffan - dragging a neutrally inclined Qatar into the war - and piling the pressure on reluctant Europeans to get involved.
And Trump (or at least his advisors) are fully aware of this. The bastards are desparate to achieve WW3.
Another day
Another unilateral attack from Netanyahu
Another example of who is THE ISSUE here!
Not Iran Not Trump Netanyahu
Take him out!
As we see in Iran 'taking out' the head just strengthens the resolve of the regime and does not result in the end of the conflict, indeed could prolong it
Nobody knows how this ends and all sides in this conflict have questions to answer
There is a massive difference between the evil regime in Iran and a few dozen rabid zealots who back Bibi and hold the Knesset to ransom.
Israel at its best is very democratic
From the minute Netanyahu deliberately ignored multiple warnings of a Hamas attack to now, he has pulled the strings and the wool over the eyes of his own people.
He needs ear, the minute there is no war he is on jail for mass corruption.
Doesn’t polling in Israel suggest that substantial majorities support the aktion in Gaza, the barbarities in the West Bank, the war with Iran and various collective retributions against Palestinians? Bibi seems to have pulled the wool over a lot of eyes in a ‘democratic’ country.
She has a valid point in terms of that traditional British value of "keeping our word". Migrants came here on the basis of being able to build a new life and get permanant residance after 5 years.
Boo hoo sob, the reason the country is in such a state is bleeding heart liberals happy to give anybody but their own people oodles of largesse. Charity should start at home.
Absolutely.
This is purely about restricting access to benefits. Quite right too.
What Rayner doesn’t say is where the money will come from if we stick to 5 years. Changjng the rules retrospectively. So what. Happens all the time.
It is not just the workers who came under the Boriswave but they brought plenty of economically inactive dependents too. In some cases several of them.
We have to start paying for them when they’ve contributed sod all. The vast majority of Boriswavers will never contribute more than they take out. We must have been crazy. The telegraph did a good series of articles on it.
No one is saying they are not welcome or cannot stay. They are saying you have to wait a little longer to get your grubby paws on taxpayers cash.
Rayner can Fuck off.
Exactly , she is thicker than a a pound of mince, she will want to extract all the benefits from the "rich" ie us mugs that have worked all our life.
Ismaili Muslims interpret much of the Koran allegorically rather than literally, much as Christians do with the Bible.
People spend lifetimes trying to jump through all these intellectual hoops to reconcile these old texts with the world as it is now, when recognising that all of them were simply made up in their time and are effectively nonsense in terms of any contemporary relevance is so much easier.
Yes, to a degree that is true, but to do so is to lose out on the philosophical understanding of much or most world cultures, their art, their literature, and current affairs.
Even athiests should be familiar with the foundations of our world. Like is so much poorer without.
Mildly amused at the 'even atheists' line, given very few monotheists recognise their origin story (literally, in Genesis) is a less reasonable retelling of Zeus bollocking Prometheus for being too helpful to mankind.
I've met plenty of atheists who are far more dogmatic and irrational than religious people !
It is very arguable that fundamentalism is an attempt to impose modernistic literalism (eg obsession with "facts") back onto the Biblical documents. The modern world made them so nervous about the religious nature of their own religion that Genesis had to be seen as a "Penguin History Series" style history book, the Books in the Bible *had to* be written by the person it was named for, salvation through Christ was like an accounting transaction, and so on. There are diverse understandings - Celtic, Orthodox, Contemplative etc are all varied.
These are all earlier ideas, from for example the 16C Westminster Confession, but it is all very aggressively asserted in the last 100 years in the USA.
I was looking at an account of the development of the USA Religious Right and it suggested that one factor behind the movement leading to the commitment to certain dogmas as literally true, and "if you question something in this "Basis of Faith" as a Preacher you will be sacked", was the humiliation from the ""Scopes Monkey Trial" * in 1925. It is a credible theory.
Contrary to reports from Axios, U.S. President Donald J. Trump states that the United States “knew nothing” about Wednesday’s attack by Israel against Iran’s South Pars Gas Field, adding that “Qatar was in no way, shape, or form, involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. Unfortunately, Iran did not know this, or any of the pertinent facts pertaining to the South Pars attack, and unjustifiably and unfairly attacked a portion of Qatar's LNG Gas facility.”
President Trump states following today’s attack by Israel and retaliatory strikes by Iran, “NO MORE ATTACKS WILL BE MADE BY ISRAEL pertaining to this extremely important and valuable South Pars Field unless Iran unwisely decides to attack a very innocent, in this case, Qatar - In which instance the United States of America, with or without the help or consent of Israel, will massively blow up the entirety of the South Pars Gas Field at an amount of strength and power that Iran has never seen or witnessed before.”
Trump still believes he's in control of events. When you go to war you're in control only of your own forces.
Yes. It is not looking great for this intervention.
I don't see what can now be achieved for it, other than an embarassing cessation of hostilities. Which is very sad for Iran's people.
What you really want is for the army to go over to the Shah, turn on the IRGC, and then it's game over for the regime. But I feel the attacks have united the two.
A more thoughtful US might have considered all the historical precedents there are for people rallying to their governments, even unpleasant or evil ones, once under attack from an enemy, and the lack of examples of where dropping bombs on people has led to fruitful political change.
There have certainly been big pro-regime protests, but I'm not sure they're indicative of a rally - I would imagine the attendees already had a firm view.
However, the regime remains very intact, and very in control of the streets.
To negotiate from a strong position, Trump must stop the flow of Iranian oil and gas to Iran-sympathetic powers, and re-start the flow of Gulf oil to the West.
I think I would probably just non-violently comandeer the tankers currently being sent to China, pay off the crews, and either keep them anchored somewhere or re-route them West. That way Iran is getting no oil out, and China won't pay for oil and gas it's not getting.
So widening the war and involving other great powers in the conflict?
Yep, that has never gone wrong before.
I would not have got into the war in the first place. However, now that Trump is in it, the situation whereby Gulf oil exports are effectively stopped and Iranian ones may continue unhindered isn't really viable if there is to be a successful negotiated peace.
Why could Trump not use his really really good best in the world military to stop Iran exporting any oil. They are supposedly very very great at pinpoint targetting and hav ethe best bombs and missiles etc etc , should be easy peasy given the war is already won a week ago.
Ismaili Muslims interpret much of the Koran allegorically rather than literally, much as Christians do with the Bible.
People spend lifetimes trying to jump through all these intellectual hoops to reconcile these old texts with the world as it is now, when recognising that all of them were simply made up in their time and are effectively nonsense in terms of any contemporary relevance is so much easier.
Yes, to a degree that is true, but to do so is to lose out on the philosophical understanding of much or most world cultures, their art, their literature, and current affairs.
Even athiests should be familiar with the foundations of our world. Like is so much poorer without.
Mildly amused at the 'even atheists' line, given very few monotheists recognise their origin story (literally, in Genesis) is a less reasonable retelling of Zeus bollocking Prometheus for being too helpful to mankind.
I've met plenty of atheists who are far more dogmatic and irrational than religious people !
It is very arguable that fundamentalism is an attempt to impose modernistic literalism (eg obsession with "facts") back onto the Biblical documents. The modern world made them so nervous about the religious nature of their own religion that Genesis had to be seen as a "Penguin History Series" style history book, the Books in the Bible *had to* be written by the person it was named for, salvation through Christ was like an accounting transaction, and so on. There are diverse understandings - Celtic, Orthodox, Contemplative etc are all varied.
These are all earlier ideas, from for example the 16C Westminster Confession, but it is all very aggressively asserted in the last 100 years in the USA.
I was looking at an account of the development of the USA Religious Right and it suggested that one factor behind the movement leading to the commitment to certain dogmas as literally true, and "if you question something in this "Basis of Faith" as a Preacher you will be sacked", was the humiliation from the ""Scopes Monkey Trial" * in 1925. It is a credible theory.
Very similar situation these days regarding the causes of climate change.
Ismaili Muslims interpret much of the Koran allegorically rather than literally, much as Christians do with the Bible.
People spend lifetimes trying to jump through all these intellectual hoops to reconcile these old texts with the world as it is now, when recognising that all of them were simply made up in their time and are effectively nonsense in terms of any contemporary relevance is so much easier.
Yes, to a degree that is true, but to do so is to lose out on the philosophical understanding of much or most world cultures, their art, their literature, and current affairs.
Even athiests should be familiar with the foundations of our world. Like is so much poorer without.
Mildly amused at the 'even atheists' line, given very few monotheists recognise their origin story (literally, in Genesis) is a less reasonable retelling of Zeus bollocking Prometheus for being too helpful to mankind.
I've met plenty of atheists who are far more dogmatic and irrational than religious people !
It is very arguable that fundamentalism is an attempt to impose modernistic literalism (eg obsession with "facts") back onto the Biblical documents. The modern world made them so nervous about the religious nature of their own religion that Genesis had to be seen as a "Penguin History Series" style history book, the Books in the Bible *had to* be written by the person it was named for, salvation through Christ was like an accounting transaction, and so on. There are diverse understandings - Celtic, Orthodox, Contemplative etc are all varied.
These are all earlier ideas, from for example the 16C Westminster Confession, but it is all very aggressively asserted in the last 100 years in the USA.
I was looking at an account of the development of the USA Religious Right and it suggested that one factor behind the movement leading to the commitment to certain dogmas as literally true, and "if you question something in this "Basis of Faith" as a Preacher you will be sacked", was the humiliation from the ""Scopes Monkey Trial" * in 1925. It is a credible theory.
Very similar situation these days regarding the causes of climate change.
I'd say it's a faitly standard human characteristic, with variations.
Comments
Maybe he's losing his touch as his mind turns to tapioca.
Yep, that has never gone wrong before.
This is purely about restricting access to benefits. Quite right too.
What Rayner doesn’t say is where the money will come from if we stick to 5 years. Changjng the rules retrospectively. So what. Happens all the time.
It is not just the workers who came under the Boriswave but they brought plenty of economically inactive dependents too. In some cases several of them.
We have to start paying for them when they’ve contributed sod all. The vast majority of Boriswavers will never contribute more than they take out. We must have been crazy. The telegraph did a good series of articles on it.
No one is saying they are not welcome or cannot stay. They are saying you have to wait a little longer to get your grubby paws on taxpayers cash.
Rayner can Fuck off.
NEW THREAD
It is very arguable that fundamentalism is an attempt to impose modernistic literalism (eg obsession with "facts") back onto the Biblical documents. The modern world made them so nervous about the religious nature of their own religion that Genesis had to be seen as a "Penguin History Series" style history book, the Books in the Bible *had to* be written by the person it was named for, salvation through Christ was like an accounting transaction, and so on. There are diverse understandings - Celtic, Orthodox, Contemplative etc are all varied.
These are all earlier ideas, from for example the 16C Westminster Confession, but it is all very aggressively asserted in the last 100 years in the USA.
I was looking at an account of the development of the USA Religious Right and it suggested that one factor behind the movement leading to the commitment to certain dogmas as literally true, and "if you question something in this "Basis of Faith" as a Preacher you will be sacked", was the humiliation from the ""Scopes Monkey Trial" * in 1925. It is a credible theory.