"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
So it’s just the BBC webpage but nothing about Timothy. Suggests it’s a rather trivial thing.
I have no issue with people having faith. I personally am an atheist. I do find aspects of the link in Islam to identity and mysogeny to be chaallenging in a western liberal context. A strongly patriarchal society does not sit easily in the world of eqquaal rights, equality and diversity etc. There is also no doubt that some Muslims do wish to see Islam take over the world. And at the moment a terrorist a attack is most likely to be inspired by a perverted creed of Islam, so people are naturally afraid.
You are more likely to get killed in the accidental spillover from a gang war than by a terrorist attack. You are much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver.
There have been 7 deaths in Great Britain from terrorist attacks since 1 Jan 2020, so about 1 a year. About 4-5 people are killed by cows each year. Don’t be afraid of terrorists, of any sort. Be afraid of cows.
There were about 20 in the Manchester Arena bomb alone.
nice in American English (naɪs) adjective Word forms: nicer, nicest Origin: ME, strange, lazy, foolish < OFr nice, nisce, stupid, foolish < L nescius, ignorant, not knowing < nescire, to be ignorant < ne-, not (see no1) + scire, to know: see science 1. obsolete (I don't care, it's still there) a. ignorant; foolish
So it’s just the BBC webpage but nothing about Timothy. Suggests it’s a rather trivial thing.
I have no issue with people having faith. I personally am an atheist. I do find aspects of the link in Islam to identity and mysogeny to be chaallenging in a western liberal context. A strongly patriarchal society does not sit easily in the world of eqquaal rights, equality and diversity etc. There is also no doubt that some Muslims do wish to see Islam take over the world. And at the moment a terrorist a attack is most likely to be inspired by a perverted creed of Islam, so people are naturally afraid.
You are more likely to get killed in the accidental spillover from a gang war than by a terrorist attack. You are much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver.
There have been 7 deaths in Great Britain from terrorist attacks since 1 Jan 2020, so about 1 a year. About 4-5 people are killed by cows each year. Don’t be afraid of terrorists, of any sort. Be afraid of cows.
There were about 20 in the Manchester Arena bomb alone.
Yep. This is what the future looks like if Farage gets in.
Some of us care about this country's liberal traditions. If you don't then you may well get what you deserve.
I care about this country’s liberal traditions. Which is why I don’t want bigots in charge.
And many people see parts of Islam as bigoted, such as the treatment of women.
Some expressions of Islam, as some expressions of Judaism and Christianity, are sexist and misogynistic. Liberals have spent centuries countering religious oppression and clericalism (usually Christian) to get us where we are today in the UK. We have also worked hard to instil the principle that we don’t judge a category of people by the actions of some in that group. To do that is bigotry.
So it’s just the BBC webpage but nothing about Timothy. Suggests it’s a rather trivial thing.
I have no issue with people having faith. I personally am an atheist. I do find aspects of the link in Islam to identity and mysogeny to be chaallenging in a western liberal context. A strongly patriarchal society does not sit easily in the world of eqquaal rights, equality and diversity etc. There is also no doubt that some Muslims do wish to see Islam take over the world. And at the moment a terrorist a attack is most likely to be inspired by a perverted creed of Islam, so people are naturally afraid.
You are more likely to get killed in the accidental spillover from a gang war than by a terrorist attack. You are much more likely to be killed by a drunk driver.
There have been 7 deaths in Great Britain from terrorist attacks since 1 Jan 2020, so about 1 a year. About 4-5 people are killed by cows each year. Don’t be afraid of terrorists, of any sort. Be afraid of cows.
There were about 20 in the Manchester Arena bomb alone.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
It depends how you define bigotry.
I am quite fine with disliking fascists because of the actions of fascists down the years.
Religion is a philosophy, no better or worse than any other by mere virtue or vice of being a religion.
Yep. This is what the future looks like if Farage gets in.
Some of us care about this country's liberal traditions. If you don't then you may well get what you deserve.
I care about this country’s liberal traditions. Which is why I don’t want bigots in charge.
And many people see parts of Islam as bigoted, such as the treatment of women.
Disliking the demonisation of a quarter of the world's population doesn't equal support for the reactionary beliefs or practices that some of them have.
Yep. This is what the future looks like if Farage gets in.
Some of us care about this country's liberal traditions. If you don't then you may well get what you deserve.
I care about this country’s liberal traditions. Which is why I don’t want bigots in charge.
If you won't confront the Islamic issue, that's what you'll probably get. Don't complain that you weren't warned.
The mayor of the capital for the last 10 years is a practicing muslim, I haven't noticed any attempts to introduce sharia law or restrict people's activities in line with the teaching of the Quran, unless it has something to say on diesels and SUVs. He's also notably less bigoted than either of the two previous mayors.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
One bit of the immigration debate is that nearly everyone has a group* they don't want.
Some years ago, I pranked a bunch of students with a tale of USA'ian rednecks coming to Cornwall to re-open the tin mines. By the time I'd finished with the usual anti-immigrant tales, they were all for throwing them into the sea, in the very spirit of that sea captain in the time of Edward I
Some of this parish got very upset by the idea of Zimbabwean farmers coming here.
Probably, being anti-immigrant is one of those irregular verbs.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
By Israel attacking South Pars (Iran's gas refinery port) Iran has retaliated by attack Ras Laffan in Qatar. This is the worlds largest gas producing complex.
Direct hits reported on Shell's Pearl GTL (Gas to Liquids) plant and Qatar Energy's Laffan refinery (condensate refinery) - both full of very flammable msterial.
Pearl in particular seems to be badly hit. This is a huge and unneccesary escalation. It is almost as if Israel is trying to drag more countries into the conflict.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
You what? The Shah was gouging oil prices. How it finished was most likely an accident, but Zack and Corbyn had nothing to do with the Islamic Revolution.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
If you’ve decided everyone you disagree with is just nasty that must be a comforting line.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
You what? The Shah was gouging oil prices. How it finished was most likely an accident, but Zack and Corbyn had nothing to do with the Islamic Revolution.
The left, in Iran and in the West, enthusiastically embraced the revolution in Iran. To the point of trying to prevent the Shah, who was dying and seeking cancer treatment, asylum in just about any country.
I guess he was the Wrong Kind of Immigrant.
Meanwhile, in Iran, the religious comedians turned against their left wing chums, in the usual fashion of escalating revolutions. Quite bloodily.
As often happens, My Enemy's Enemy turned out to be Just Another Enemy.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
If you’ve decided everyone you disagree with is just nasty that must be a comforting line.
Criticism of the religion, the book, or the prophet is worthy of a death sentence, according to the book
Is any of that criticism not Islamophobic?
Try reading the Bible, particularly the Old Testament.
In the case of the Bible, you need to read both Testaments. Because Christianity is supposed to be Judaism 2.0 - a lot of revisions and deprecated code.
Essentially, God had a midlife crisis, an affair with a married woman, the child.... stuff went sideways. The usual story. Anyway, God mellowed a lot after that - probably spent some time surfing and smoking blunts.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
If you’ve decided everyone you disagree with is just nasty that must be a comforting line.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
One particular agent provocateur kicks this one off and before you know it one or two others have been triggered. It happens every time. Sometimes I wonder whether the agent provocateur even believes what he says, I suspect he just lights the touch paper and watches the inferno.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
If you’ve decided everyone you disagree with is just nasty that must be a comforting line.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
If you’ve decided everyone you disagree with is just nasty that must be a comforting line.
The good news is I haven't.
Oh what a riposte! it’s a triumph dahling!
You're sounding a bit jumpy. Hope all is well.
Spare me the fake concern, it just makes you look even more pompous
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
You what? The Shah was gouging oil prices. How it finished was most likely an accident, but Zack and Corbyn had nothing to do with the Islamic Revolution.
The left, in Iran and in the West, enthusiastically embraced the revolution in Iran. To the point of trying to prevent the Shah, who was dying and seeking cancer treatment, asylum in just about any country.
I guess he was the Wrong Kind of Immigrant.
Meanwhile, in Iran, the religious comedians turned against their left wing chums, in the usual fashion of escalating revolutions. Quite bloodily.
As often happens, My Enemy's Enemy turned out to be Just Another Enemy.
That is a potted history of the fall of the Shah with the accuracy of a Caroline Leavitt press conference.
The Shah was a ruthless US backed Dictator who creamed off oil revenues for himself. He was dying of cancer and he left for treatment in if I remember correctly North Africa.
The Shah was a bad man, only not as bad as Khomeini turned out to be.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
One particular agent provocateur kicks this one off and before you know it one or two others have been triggered. It happens every time. Sometimes I wonder whether the agent provocateur even believes what he says, I suspect he just lights the touch paper and watches the inferno.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
One particular agent provocateur kicks this one off and before you know it one or two others have been triggered. It happens every time. Sometimes I wonder whether the agent provocateur even believes what he says, I suspect he just lights the touch paper and watches the inferno.
SCOOP!!! Trump administration considering deploying thousands of additional troops to the Middle East as the military prepares options for the possible next phase of the Iran war. One option for securing the Strait of Hormuz includes deploying troops to Iranian shores. w/ @idreesali114
SCOOP!!! Trump administration considering deploying thousands of additional troops to the Middle East as the military prepares options for the possible next phase of the Iran war. One option for securing the Strait of Hormuz includes deploying troops to Iranian shores. w/ @idreesali114
'kin hell. I hope you haven't got a bridge to sell me.
SCOOP!!! Trump administration considering deploying thousands of additional troops to the Middle East as the military prepares options for the possible next phase of the Iran war. One option for securing the Strait of Hormuz includes deploying troops to Iranian shores. w/ @idreesali114
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
The important bit is not disliking *groups*.
There are arseholes in all groups.
Yep. Like I know approx one third of Reform voters are racist. But if I meet one, a Reform voter, I'm not going to just assume they are that way inclined. I'll wait until they've said something dodgy before I make that call. And I won't just drop the hammer I'll give them a chance to explain first. Because I might have misconstrued them. It could be me at fault.
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Phobia has a clinical definition
Homophobia often conceals homosexuality
It’s an irrational fear, like the clinical definition of phobia
Xenophobia, fear literally of barbarians, but fear of foreigners, is largely irrational, but can be otherwise in some circumstances
Fear of submission is entirely irrational and should be illegal
Phobia has a clinical definition, but neither homophobia or Islamophobia are clinical diagnoses. They ain’t in the DSM.
We’ve ended up with words of a confusing etymology to mean bigotry against particular groups. Trying to interpret these words based on their etymology is about as stupid as the people who say that Palestinians can’t be anti-Semitic because they’re Semites too.
Are you successfully arguing that fear of Islam isn’t Islamophobia?
Islamophobia is not a phobia. The Government is not intending to ban people from being afraid of Muslims. “Islamophobia” is the word (with a somewhat confusing etymology) that refers to bigotry towards Muslims. What part of this do you not understand?
In case you missed the distinction; I said fear of Islam, you said fear of Muslims
Not the same thing
You know that thing whereby closet antisemites religiously stick to slagging off "Israel" when inside their own head they mean Jews?
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
The fun bit is when people don't realise what is going on inside their own heads. The number of people who quite genuinely believe that "because a mate at work is X, I can't be anti-X".
A minefield topic too. As we see tonight. The biggest tell for me of somebody fallen down the prejudice hole on muslims is 'they shouldn't be here fouling up the place and taking over' type sentiments.
The important bit is not disliking *groups*.
There are arseholes in all groups.
Yep. Like I know approx one third of Reform voters are racist. But if I meet one, a Reform voter, I'm not going to just assume they are that way inclined. I'll wait until they've said something dodgy before I make that call. And I won't just drop the hammer I'll give them a chance to explain first. Because I might have misconstrued them. It could be me at fault.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
"When a Jewish News journalist pointed out that similarly large single sex prayer events are also held by Orthodox Jews in London, Badenoch’s representative replied that the Iftar event was “different”, without explaining how."
Well that's ok then!
Timothy must go?
If she fails to answer the question fully if put to her, she should consider her position too?
Kudos to the Jewish News journalist who skewers the hypocrisy in Nick Timothy's bleatings.
There's a notion out there Muslims are somehow given "special treatment" and other religions are ignored or disadvantaged. Certainly, in my part of the world, Hindu, Sikh, Orthodox and Christian religious events are observed,
Diwali and especially Onam (Keralan) are observed in East Ham as is the birthday of Guru Nanak when there is a Sikh parade down the High Street.
Why does nobody need to be ordered not to fear Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Christians?
My Dad moved to the US. He worked on abortion policy. His friends, who actually did abortions, had been shot at by Christians.
A member of our local congregation survived the 1982 Hyde Park bombing by the IRA, part of a sectarian conflict between two groups of Christians.
That doesn't explain why we need to be obligated to not fear Islam
That’s just you getting hung up on etymology. “Islamophobia” has the root -phobia in it, but like homophobia, it’s not a real phobia. It’s about bigotry towards a group. Against Jews, we call it anti-Semitism; against Muslims, we call it Islamophobia.
Our special treatment of anti-semitism stems from the holocaust. Labour's proposed special treatment of islamaphobia stems from what? We got too grumpy and over-reacted when they blew up our tube trains?
I kinda think it shouldn’t take a genocide for us to stop being bigoted against a group.
Why might we need the government to take some sort of action around Islamophobia? Well, look at this thread and the half a dozen people being very bigoted against Muslims, making up nonsense about Muslims, declaring Islam a unique threat. Two of the commonest bigotries in our country today are anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. (Ziganophobia is up there too.)
Some British muslims blow stuff up. Some gypies living in Britain steal. What bad thing do you think some British Jews do? Do enlighten us.
What’s that got to do with the price of fish? Bigotry is not justified by the actions of a few individuals. Do you really think it’s fine for people to be bigoted against a group because a few individuals in that group have behaved poorly?
A lot of people have come to the conclusion that the downsides of Islamic immigration outweigh the good. It’s not bigoted to think that, it’s a reasonable opinion, backed by some high profile incidents. We are westerners, they are not, and the hassle of trying and failing to integrate them is not worth it.
It's quite rare for somebody to accept they're being bigoted. They'll tend to genuinely believe their opinion is reasonable and evidence based.
If you’ve decided everyone you disagree with is just nasty that must be a comforting line.
The good news is I haven't.
Oh what a riposte! it’s a triumph dahling!
You're sounding a bit jumpy. Hope all is well.
Spare me the fake concern, it just makes you look even more pompous
No, seriously. That was an odd tone of comment. Like you were upset about something. But this one is fine. More than fine.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
The impression I get is that the Shah's regime was pretty bad but not quite as bad as the current one.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
Would it have happened without the non-Islamist leftists working with the Islamists?
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
The impression I get is that the Shah's regime was pretty bad but not quite as bad as the current one.
As far as wicked Dictatorships go the Shah was probably rated a 5 or 6/10. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps ratcheted theirs to 11.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
Would it have happened without the non-Islamist leftists working with the Islamists?
I think Robert has clearly stated it wasn't a binary left or right issue. Jimmy Carter, who in the current left-right narrative in American political discourse would according to the Trump regime be far left, would have been content to prop up the Shah.
Iran is how it is because the leftists helped the Islamists to power
Ascribing single causes to an event like the Iranian revolution is, at the very least, extremely lazy.
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
Would it have happened without the non-Islamist leftists working with the Islamists?
I think Robert has clearly stated it wasn't a binary left or right issue. Jimmy Carter, who in the current left-right narrative in American political discourse would according to the Trump regime be far left, would have been content to prop up the Shah.
The US left was to the right of the Iranian centre?! Never..
Comments
in American English
(naɪs)
adjective
Word forms: nicer, nicest
Origin: ME, strange, lazy, foolish < OFr nice, nisce, stupid, foolish < L nescius, ignorant, not knowing < nescire, to be ignorant < ne-, not (see no1) + scire, to know: see science
1. obsolete (I don't care, it's still there)
a. ignorant; foolish
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/nice
I am quite fine with disliking fascists because of the actions of fascists down the years.
Religion is a philosophy, no better or worse than any other by mere virtue or vice of being a religion.
Pick your poison, eh?
Some years ago, I pranked a bunch of students with a tale of USA'ian rednecks coming to Cornwall to re-open the tin mines. By the time I'd finished with the usual anti-immigrant tales, they were all for throwing them into the sea, in the very spirit of that sea captain in the time of Edward I
Some of this parish got very upset by the idea of Zimbabwean farmers coming here.
Probably, being anti-immigrant is one of those irregular verbs.
*A group. Think about that for a minute.
It's possible to pull off that exact same trick with "Muslims" and "Islam". And people do.
By Israel attacking South Pars (Iran's gas refinery port) Iran has retaliated by attack Ras Laffan in Qatar. This is the worlds largest gas producing complex.
Direct hits reported on Shell's Pearl GTL (Gas to Liquids) plant and Qatar Energy's Laffan refinery (condensate refinery) - both full of very flammable msterial.
Pearl in particular seems to be badly hit. This is a huge and unneccesary escalation. It is almost as if Israel is trying to drag more countries into the conflict.
https://www.npr.org/2008/10/18/95867912/report-u-s-missteps-led-to-shahs-overthrow
I guess he was the Wrong Kind of Immigrant.
Meanwhile, in Iran, the religious comedians turned against their left wing chums, in the usual fashion of escalating revolutions. Quite bloodily.
As often happens, My Enemy's Enemy turned out to be Just Another Enemy.
Essentially, God had a midlife crisis, an affair with a married woman, the child.... stuff went sideways. The usual story. Anyway, God mellowed a lot after that - probably spent some time surfing and smoking blunts.
There are arseholes in all groups.
The Shah was a ruthless US backed Dictator who creamed off oil revenues for himself. He was dying of cancer and he left for treatment in if I remember correctly North Africa.
The Shah was a bad man, only not as bad as Khomeini turned out to be.
https://x.com/phildstewart/status/2034416323808399440
SCOOP!!! Trump administration considering deploying thousands of additional troops to the Middle East as the military prepares options for the possible next phase of the Iran war. One option for securing the Strait of Hormuz includes deploying troops to Iranian shores. w/
@idreesali114
I have plenty of Persian friends here in LA: mostly Jewish, but a fair number of Muslims too. A lot of them fled because their families were too close to the Shah.
Very few of them are particularly kind about him. They think that his brutal repression via SAVAK was entirely counter-productive, as was his insane celebration as the King of Kings at a time when large parts of the country were starving helped turn people against him.
They hate what Persia has become, and they hate the Mullahs, but if you ask them if they blame the Shah more or leftists from the around the world, they would look at you like you were completely bonkers.
It is also worth noting that the Shah was one of the leading proponents of OPEC's price assertiveness, which -of course- was triggered by the West's support of Israel. (And which, in turn, meant the Shah didn't have as many friends in the West -on either side of the political aisle- when the revolution came.)
New - California governor primary
🔴 Hilton 17%
🔴 Bianco 16%
🔵 Swalwell 13%
🔵 Porter 13%
🔵 Steyer 10%
🔵 Becerra 5%
🔴 Top 2 go for a runoff
Barkley #B - RV - 3/14