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London 2028: Reform v Green? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,978
edited 8:33AM in General
London 2028: Reform v Green? – politicalbetting.com

In the 2024 London Mayoral election Zoë Garbett of the Greens finished fourth with 5.8% of the vote (albeit under the hugely flawed first past the post system) and in 2028 we should be back to supplementary vote system so I’d expect the Greens to do a lot better.

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Comments

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,561
    edited 8:35AM
    What a choice.

    Has got pretty nasty in past London elections, i expect that to increase.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,693
    edited 8:35AM
    Edit second as Zoe will be
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,561

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    It may be a simple translation error relating to the incident we've seen, but the Kuwaiti military are reporting multiple US jets have crashed within its territory this morning, though all crews are reportedly accounted for.

    Option 1 - find someone who speaks the language and get them to at least verify the translation if not the report.
    Option 2 - regurgitate a report you don't know if it is true based on a google translation you suspect is incorrect but makes a sensational headline that will get clicks.
    Journalistic integrity demands the latter!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,674
    Has Rachel Reeves resigned yet?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,735
    Ratters said:

    I see that this morning it is Cooper's turn to come out with the 'how dare they shoot back' nonsense.

    Well, they could have stuck to US and Israeli targets. You normally defend yourselves against the countries attacking, not lash out at anyone nearby
    When at war, countries are inclined to do war-like things.

    I don't think anyone can reasonably blame Iran for its response. The US and Israel need to have a plan to finish what they started.

    Chopping a few heads off a hydra won't count as victory unless it is at least partly tamed going forward. These attacks are designed to demonstrate it is not yet tamed.
    International law, FWIW, says that you can.
    And in practical terms, it means that the last decade of Iran's attempted rapprochement with a number of its regional neighbours is in the dustbin.

    (Also, Starmer' change in position is a small but prompt illustration of the costs of shooting back at countries which weren't involved in the original attack.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037
    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,946

    PB world exclusive

    I am hearing that Ayatollah Samail Alladani has been appointed caretaker Supreme Leader of Iran until the end of the season.


    Lucky for the US and Israel it's not Michael Carrick!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,325
    edited 8:43AM
    OT I think......

    Half the BBC are now comfortably ensconced on the fairly empty beaches of Tel Aviv. Waitress service in action. Happily none in Tehran where I'm told the hospitality is -and I quote-'Shit'. Keep the chat coming Anna. It might not be informative but it's always nice to hear stories from the front line.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,811
    If Khan were stepping down I think this would be a no brainer, but as it stands I think he has managed to successfully carve out an independent following for himself and he will likely minimise the anti-Labour effect, on the left at least.

    I do expect him to tack fairly sharply leftward though. Certainly he can’t afford to be outflanked too much by someone going full Mamdani-style economic populist.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,738

    IanB2 said:

    From the ABC News Chief Washington correspondent: .

    Pres Trump told me tonight the US had identified possible candidates to take over Iran, but they were killed in the initial attack.

    "The attack was so successful it knocked out most of the candidates," Trump told me. "It's not going to be anybody that we were thinking of because they are all dead. Second or third place is dead."

    I feel like Israel might be responsible for that, with its intelligence. Trump might have wanted a nice speedy takeover with most of the state aparatus intact, Israel might have a very different vision.
    Same with Gaza. Hard for America to negotiate if everyone they talk to is killed.
    You don't need much in the way of negotiations to say "we surrender".

    Gaza did it. Iran should too. Even if it takes Gaza style destruction in Iran, whatever it takes.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,800
    edited 8:48AM
    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per therm, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually unchanged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.
  • AnthonyTAnthonyT Posts: 235
    If that's likely to be the choice, best sell London property well before then.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774

    If Khan were stepping down I think this would be a no brainer, but as it stands I think he has managed to successfully carve out an independent following for himself and he will likely minimise the anti-Labour effect, on the left at least.

    I do expect him to tack fairly sharply leftward though. Certainly he can’t afford to be outflanked too much by someone going full Mamdani-style economic populist.

    Build more houses! (Well, realistically flats seeing as its London).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,674
    @typesfast

    18% of global air freight capacity has been taken out of the market by conflict in the Middle East this weekend.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    I see that this morning it is Cooper's turn to come out with the 'how dare they shoot back' nonsense.

    Well, they could have stuck to US and Israeli targets. You normally defend yourselves against the countries attacking, not lash out at anyone nearby
    When at war, countries are inclined to do war-like things.

    I don't think anyone can reasonably blame Iran for its response. The US and Israel need to have a plan to finish what they started.

    Chopping a few heads off a hydra won't count as victory unless it is at least partly tamed going forward. These attacks are designed to demonstrate it is not yet tamed.
    International law, FWIW, says that you can.
    And in practical terms, it means that the last decade of Iran's attempted rapprochement with a number of its regional neighbours is in the dustbin.

    (Also, Starmer' change in position is a small but prompt illustration of the costs of shooting back at countries which weren't involved in the original attack.)
    Saudi and UAE are really not happy. They’ve gone from being neutral to being very much in favour of helping the Americans and Israelis deal with the problem.

    Qatar and Oman are really pissed off, the former is a longstanding Iranian ally and the latter was recently mediating the talks aimed at avoiding war.

    GCC statement was pretty unequivocal, that the Gulf countries will defend themselves.
    https://www.bna.bh/en/Statementissuedby50thextraordinarymeetingofGCCMinisterialCouncilregardingIranianaggressionagainstGCC.aspx?cms=q8FmFJgiscL2fwIzON1+DmEhn68EQ9/3znkw5qBy+ZE=
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,631

    PB world exclusive

    I am hearing that Ayatollah Samail Alladani has been appointed caretaker Supreme Leader of Iran until the end of the season.


    Maybe they should appoint Jeremy Corbyn.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,811
    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per therm, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually unchanged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    FTSE100 up about 25% over the last year! I always said we should trust the wise Trump Starmer combo!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,631

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Reform might well get more votes than the Conservatives, even if they win fewer wards.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,849
    edited 8:53AM
    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

  • TazTaz Posts: 25,571
    Scott_xP said:

    Has Rachel Reeves resigned yet?

    What was the big announcement. I had more important things to do. Sending an EVRI parcel
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037
    Scott_xP said:

    Has Rachel Reeves resigned yet?

    Jenricks next shocking expose on her is so shocking he's scheduled it for release on New Years Day 2028
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Has Rachel Reeves resigned yet?

    What was the big announcement. I had more important things to do. Sending an EVRI parcel
    She had lunch with a Muslim (literally)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,413

    PB world exclusive

    I am hearing that Ayatollah Samail Alladani has been appointed caretaker Supreme Leader of Iran until the end of the season.


    So it is route one?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    From the ABC News Chief Washington correspondent: .

    Pres Trump told me tonight the US had identified possible candidates to take over Iran, but they were killed in the initial attack.

    "The attack was so successful it knocked out most of the candidates," Trump told me. "It's not going to be anybody that we were thinking of because they are all dead. Second or third place is dead."

    I feel like Israel might be responsible for that, with its intelligence. Trump might have wanted a nice speedy takeover with most of the state aparatus intact, Israel might have a very different vision.
    Same with Gaza. Hard for America to negotiate if everyone they talk to is killed.
    You don't need much in the way of negotiations to say "we surrender".

    Gaza did it. Iran should too. Even if it takes Gaza style destruction in Iran, whatever it takes.
    Iran and Gaza are orders of magnitude apart. The scale of what you suggest is insane, when you consider what level of commitment it took in Gaza.
    That's a bit harsh, Gaza style destruction would only be killing about 5 million people. Surely worth it to look hard and resolute on the internet?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,816
    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    edited 8:57AM

    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
    Yes there will be some oil price volatility, until we know exactly what’s going on and how long any disruption might last, but other markets had a conflict pretty much priced in already.

    Not sure that Iran bombing most of the GCC was on anyone’s immediate radar though.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037
    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,757
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Has Rachel Reeves resigned yet?

    What was the big announcement. I had more important things to do. Sending an EVRI parcel
    Thoughts and prayers at this difficult time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,594
    edited 9:02AM
    Not that well-versed on London politics, but surely the Greens stand a better chance than Reform?

    Edited extra bit: btw, agree with your line of reasoning and have backed her accordingly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,849

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037

    Not that well-versed on London politics, but surely the Greens stand a better chance than Reform?

    Labour, the Greens snd the Tories all stand a better chance
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,133

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    Rudy Kurniawan has quite a following in China...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,325
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    From the ABC News Chief Washington correspondent: .

    Pres Trump told me tonight the US had identified possible candidates to take over Iran, but they were killed in the initial attack.

    "The attack was so successful it knocked out most of the candidates," Trump told me. "It's not going to be anybody that we were thinking of because they are all dead. Second or third place is dead."

    I feel like Israel might be responsible for that, with its intelligence. Trump might have wanted a nice speedy takeover with most of the state aparatus intact, Israel might have a very different vision.
    Same with Gaza. Hard for America to negotiate if everyone they talk to is killed.
    You don't need much in the way of negotiations to say "we surrender".

    Gaza did it. Iran should too. Even if it takes Gaza style destruction in Iran, whatever it takes.
    Iran and Gaza are orders of magnitude apart. The scale of what you suggest is insane, when you consider what level of commitment it took in Gaza.
    Bartholomew is the most ill informed poster on here. The number of his posts are in inverse proportion to his knowledge. Iran is twice the area of Pakistan It's population is 50x that of Gaza.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,816
    edited 9:05AM
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
    Isn't there a nearby street urchin you could bribe to go in for you? A pleasing reversal of roles from off licences round my bit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,235
    edited 9:06AM
    Foxy said:

    PB world exclusive

    I am hearing that Ayatollah Samail Alladani has been appointed caretaker Supreme Leader of Iran until the end of the season.


    So it is route one?
    "Want yer to go out and get all Norman Hunter on their oil facilities. Might lose a couple of you to red cards, but you've got mi blessin'. They'll think twice about tacklin' us again..."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,615
    Round here we'll be losing some wards to Green (or other Gazaphiles) and others to Reform.

    Labour getting it from both ends, so to speak.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,235
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
    Go for a discount for bulk...

    It's what they'd expect.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,908
    Leon said:

    they would do one Google and realise their error

    The Cyberspace Administration of China has got your back on that one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,120

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,849

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
    Isn't there a nearby street urchin you could bribe to go in for you? A pleasing reversal of roles from off licences round my bit.
    What if I go back and they've realised their mistake ALREADY and they're really angry?!

    EEEEK
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,610
    How on earth did you get £100 on, do you have a problem with the horses :p ?

    Restricted to £1.50 here.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,594
    Pulpstar said:

    How on earth did you get £100 on, do you have a problem with the horses :p ?

    Restricted to £1.50 here.

    Some say Mr. Eagles has a secret network and got his friends Mr. Sparrow, Mr. Hawk, and Mr. Wren to put the money on for him ;)
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,937
    edited 9:12AM
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
    I love moments like that. And Barolo is my favourite wine, I'm very envious.

    But you've got all the benefit from it. You've got two bottles of vintage Barolo. Why not give the shopkeeper a bit of a windfall now and be honest about the quality of the wine. I bet they'd happily sell you the other two bottles for £20 a pop. That way both of you get an absolute bargain.

    ETA: buying the other two for pittance won't feel nearly as good, you know that.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    Pulpstar said:

    How on earth did you get £100 on, do you have a problem with the horses :p ?

    Restricted to £1.50 here.

    Clue is in the login to place a bet message.....
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,323

    IanB2 said:

    From the ABC News Chief Washington correspondent: .

    Pres Trump told me tonight the US had identified possible candidates to take over Iran, but they were killed in the initial attack.

    "The attack was so successful it knocked out most of the candidates," Trump told me. "It's not going to be anybody that we were thinking of because they are all dead. Second or third place is dead."

    I feel like Israel might be responsible for that, with its intelligence. Trump might have wanted a nice speedy takeover with most of the state aparatus intact, Israel might have a very different vision.
    Same with Gaza. Hard for America to negotiate if everyone they talk to is killed.
    You don't need much in the way of negotiations to say "we surrender".

    Gaza did it. Iran should too. Even if it takes Gaza style destruction in Iran, whatever it takes.
    That is what people are getting at when they say neither side wants peace but both sides want victory.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,644
    Has jenrick made his statement about Reeves?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    edited 9:18AM
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
    Go back tomorrow, say that you and your friends liked them, and take the two more. Give them a note too many but don’t ask for the change. Google’s blocked in China anyway!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,631

    Has jenrick made his statement about Reeves?

    He called her the incarnation of Beelzebub.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037
    Another attack on RAF Akrotiri intercepted.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,693
    Sandpit said:

    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
    Yes there will be some oil price volatility, until we know exactly what’s going on and how long any disruption might last, but other markets had a conflict pretty much priced in already.

    Not sure that Iran bombing most of the GCC was on anyone’s immediate radar though.
    It was a likely outcome.

    As was killing off the next 2 levels of Iran’s leadership which is the obvious outcome when you bomb the meeting everyone is attending
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,594

    Another attack on RAF Akrotiri intercepted.

    Hopefully we've been learning from Ukraine when it comes to modern air defences.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037

    Has jenrick made his statement about Reeves?

    Yes.
    https://x.com/i/status/2028387011137089598

    Embarassing stuff from Bobbins
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,735
    edited 9:24AM
    Sandpit said:

    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
    Yes there will be some oil price volatility, until we know exactly what’s going on and how long any disruption might last, but other markets had a conflict pretty much priced in already.

    Not sure that Iran bombing most of the GCC was on anyone’s immediate radar though.
    This, though, is why there's some urgent in going after Iranian launch sites.

    The UAE has now burned through a significant chunk of an interceptor stockpile that took years to build — in 48 hours.
    https://x.com/ka_grieco/status/2028198688250536223

    Aside from the cost ratio (the defending systems, unless they're using lasers, cost at least 10x what they're shooting down), you simply can't build interceptor missiles as quickly as you can Shahed type drones.
    And none of the gulf states yet have the more cost effective Ukrainian systems.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    Emirates airline has postponed resumption of operations by another 24 hours, until 15:00L tomorrow.

    https://x.com/emiratessupport/status/2028364767929532708

    That will be 96 hours of shutdown.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,970

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,970
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    As the world seems a bit grim and depressing, here's something more cheering

    I did a tour of some Shanghai sites today, including the remarkable 1933 Slaughterhouse (thanks for the tip @edmundintokyo)

    I spent most of the afternoon in the brilliant Yuyuan Market, then on the way out I thought "ah, better buy some red wine for the evening, to chill out with Netflix" (wine can be a pain to find in Shanghai)

    As I walked along I saw an old cigarette shop and thought Hey, maybe - sometimes they also stock booze. So I went in and they had literally 14 bottles in a dusty corner, but amongst the 14 were 4 bottles of 2008 Vintage Barolo. Price? £9

    2008 Barolo for £9??? i decided they were either counterfeit or presumably corked but on the off chance they might be the real deal, and drinkable, I bought two

    I've just got them back to the hotel, opened one, and OMG, it is superb. And I checked the REAL price on Vivino - around £100 a bottle

    Basically this little shop has no idea what it is selling. But now I have a dilemma. They have two bottles left, and of course I HAVE to go and buy them, but I've got to do it in a way that doesn't arouse *suspicion*. The exact same guy coming right back to buy the last two bottles two hours later? - maybe they will realise they've underpriced it by a billion times. But I reckon I can finesse it

    When I said this was a cheering story, I meant cheering for ME, obvs

    You could always play the white man (ho ho) and tell him the wine is so good that you want pay double for the remaining two.
    I actually thought of doing something like that, but then I figured it would just make them suspicious and they would do one Google and realise their error. Indeed, even as I left just now I think my evident enthusiasm for the purchase made the nice lady, at the till, a little pensive
    Go back tomorrow, say that you and your friends liked them, and take the two more. Give them a note too many but don’t ask for the change. Google’s blocked in China anyway!
    He's too late, someone on X has just bought two bottles
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,120

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    In the mayoral election, possibly, but we're talking about this year's council elections and whether they provide a springboard for the mayoral vote in two years time. Reform are going to make gains in parts of outer London. They may do enough to give the impression that Reform are winning here, which looks good for Cunningham, which gives her campaign a boost.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
    Yes there will be some oil price volatility, until we know exactly what’s going on and how long any disruption might last, but other markets had a conflict pretty much priced in already.

    Not sure that Iran bombing most of the GCC was on anyone’s immediate radar though.
    This, though, is why there's some urgent in going after Iranian launch sites.

    The UAE has now burned through a significant chunk of an interceptor stockpile that took years to build — in 48 hours.
    https://x.com/ka_grieco/status/2028198688250536223

    Aside from the cost ratio (the defending systems, unless they're using lasers, cost at least 10x what they're shooting down), you simply can't build interceptor missiles as quickly as you can Shahed type drones.
    And none of the gulf states yet have the more cost effective Ukrainian systems.
    Indeed. I’m expecting a concerted effort in the next 24-48 hours to take out launch sites, warehouses, and obliterating that big drone factory (and its shadow in Russia). There’s not a lot of Iranian air defences left.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,134
    edited 9:28AM
    That video on the BBC news site of a US jet fighter crashing looks quite odd. The plane appears to be just falling pancake style to the ground with no obvious signs of damage, fire, etc. Is it real? What is likely to have happened to it? @Sandpit ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy0dp1l57nxt
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Yes, im working on the assumption they dont select Christopher Chope etc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,561

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,148
    Sandpit said:

    Emirates airline has postponed resumption of operations by another 24 hours, until 15:00L tomorrow.

    https://x.com/emiratessupport/status/2028364767929532708

    That will be 96 hours of shutdown.

    Next door Abu Dhabi seems to have at least a few flights.

    https://www.flightradar24.com/25.75,53.45/7
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,037
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Coe or Cleverly in front seat
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,970

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Londoners have shown tbey will vote for independents, the personality not the party. Even Boris is an example in a not normally tory city. So building up Laila C and giving her publicity is probably the right thing to do, people may vote for her in spite of the party label
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,883
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    You've obviously never met any Tories...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,148

    Has jenrick made his statement about Reeves?

    Yes.
    https://x.com/i/status/2028387011137089598

    Embarassing stuff from Bobbins

    Lucy Connolly
    @LucyTCWife
    ·
    32m
    Wow, not shocked though.
    Labour and Greens seem desperate to get the Muslim vote.
    It’s becoming quite sinister.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,183
    Morning all 🙂

    With the not insignificant caveat we are still two years from the London Mayoral election, which is an eternity in politics, my immediate thought reading this was if this is the level of Tryl’s analysis, we probably shouldn’t take his polling too seriously.

    I suspect the 2028 London Mayoral runoff will be between the Labour candidate (probably Khan) and the Conservative candidate (Seb Coe, James Cleverly or A.N Other). The question will then be whether the anti-Khan vote (which exists) will overcome any distaste for the opposing candidate.

    Unless current events trigger a schism or a bulk defection from Labour to the Greens and assuming Badenoch can keep going, it’s hard to see either Laila Cunningham or the Green candidate making the top two.

    Yes, either or both could finish first or second in particular Boroughs but neither has at this time significant London wide support to break the duopoly.

    The locals in May will have some significance but with two years before the Mayoral contest, it would be unwise to make betting assumptions for London on whether Labour holds on in Newham.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266

    Sandpit said:

    Emirates airline has postponed resumption of operations by another 24 hours, until 15:00L tomorrow.

    https://x.com/emiratessupport/status/2028364767929532708

    That will be 96 hours of shutdown.

    Next door Abu Dhabi seems to have at least a few flights.

    https://www.flightradar24.com/25.75,53.45/7
    I can only see one Lufthansa A380, taking a very weird route towards Munich, most likely empty of passengers as it wasn’t on the departures board.

    https://www.abu-dhabi-airport.com/departures.php

    Etihad do appear to be trying to get a few planes out this afternoon though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,133

    That video on the BBC news site of a US jet fighter crashing looks quite odd. The plane appears to be just falling pancake style to the ground with no obvious signs of damage, fire, etc. Is it real? What is likely to have happened to it? @Sandpit ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy0dp1l57nxt

    Quite a few videos (over the years) of modern fighter jets falling in a flat spin like that, after the pilot has ejected
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,148
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Emirates airline has postponed resumption of operations by another 24 hours, until 15:00L tomorrow.

    https://x.com/emiratessupport/status/2028364767929532708

    That will be 96 hours of shutdown.

    Next door Abu Dhabi seems to have at least a few flights.

    https://www.flightradar24.com/25.75,53.45/7
    I can only see one Lufthansa A380, taking a very weird route towards Munich, most likely empty of passengers as it wasn’t on the departures board.

    https://www.abu-dhabi-airport.com/departures.php

    Etihad do appear to be trying to get a few planes out this afternoon though.
    Lufthansa 380 just departed AUH for Munich.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,735
    .

    That video on the BBC news site of a US jet fighter crashing looks quite odd. The plane appears to be just falling pancake style to the ground with no obvious signs of damage, fire, etc. Is it real? What is likely to have happened to it? @Sandpit ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy0dp1l57nxt

    Who knows ?
    Its engines are out, anyway.

    Friendly fire a possibility:
    ..Some breaking news from Kuwait - a (sic) "several American fighter aircraft came down this morning", says Kuwait's Ministry of Defence.
    The crews "survived unscathed", and were evacuated and transferred to hospitals for health checks, it adds, and confirms the conditions of the crews as "stable".
    The Ministry of Defence adds that it is coordinating with its US ally regarding the "circumstances of the incident", and is continuing investigations into the "causes of the incident"...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,183

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    To be fair, according to some, Susan Hall won the 2024 election. She was apparently leading right up to the point they started counting the votes.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,245

    That video on the BBC news site of a US jet fighter crashing looks quite odd. The plane appears to be just falling pancake style to the ground with no obvious signs of damage, fire, etc. Is it real? What is likely to have happened to it? @Sandpit ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy0dp1l57nxt

    Flat spin with no thrust - could be anything. Deep stall. Uncontained engine failure that takes out the other one. Contained engine failure but the crew run restart procedure on the good engine (seen that done more than once). Near miss from a blue-on-blue. Basically, if anybody says they know, they are a bullshitter.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    edited 9:37AM

    That video on the BBC news site of a US jet fighter crashing looks quite odd. The plane appears to be just falling pancake style to the ground with no obvious signs of damage, fire, etc. Is it real? What is likely to have happened to it? @Sandpit ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy0dp1l57nxt

    Looks like it either got hit by something or manourved to avoid something, and is coming down in what’s known as a flat spin, a pretty much unrecoverable situation. Both pilots ejected and are said to have landed alive in Kuwait. The rumour is that they were engaged by Kuwaiti (friendly!) air defences, but no confirmation on that yet.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,822
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Emirates airline has postponed resumption of operations by another 24 hours, until 15:00L tomorrow.

    https://x.com/emiratessupport/status/2028364767929532708

    That will be 96 hours of shutdown.

    Next door Abu Dhabi seems to have at least a few flights.

    https://www.flightradar24.com/25.75,53.45/7
    I can only see one Lufthansa A380, taking a very weird route towards Munich, most likely empty of passengers as it wasn’t on the departures board.

    https://www.abu-dhabi-airport.com/departures.php

    Etihad do appear to be trying to get a few planes out this afternoon though.
    Probably been asked before, but do you and yours, AToW, seem safe enough?

    Best wishes.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,970
    Scott_xP said:

    @typesfast

    18% of global air freight capacity has been taken out of the market by conflict in the Middle East this weekend.

    And international passenger flights. An awful lot of long haul goes through the ME hubs which are now shut down. If this goes on for 3-4 weeks it is going to cause chaos. I looked at rebooking mine but there are no direct flights, there's some via China but with stupid flight times and long layovers. And I won't get my money back unless and until Qatar decide to cancel. Even if the Qatari airspace is reopened, Qatar is now orange with the FCDO which presumably means my travel insurance will be void if I fly through there.

    Of course I may be able to claim on the insurance *because* Qatar is orange, but then it's due to an act of war which is supposedly excluded. But then it usually is, so I don't know how that works.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    Foxy said:

    PB world exclusive

    I am hearing that Ayatollah Samail Alladani has been appointed caretaker Supreme Leader of Iran until the end of the season.


    So it is route one?
    I'd expect a focus on aerial supremacy and set pieces.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    edited 9:39AM

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Emirates airline has postponed resumption of operations by another 24 hours, until 15:00L tomorrow.

    https://x.com/emiratessupport/status/2028364767929532708

    That will be 96 hours of shutdown.

    Next door Abu Dhabi seems to have at least a few flights.

    https://www.flightradar24.com/25.75,53.45/7
    I can only see one Lufthansa A380, taking a very weird route towards Munich, most likely empty of passengers as it wasn’t on the departures board.

    https://www.abu-dhabi-airport.com/departures.php

    Etihad do appear to be trying to get a few planes out this afternoon though.
    Probably been asked before, but do you and yours, AToW, seem safe enough?

    Best wishes.
    Yeah we’re good thanks. Dubai itself appears pretty safe, there’s been a handful of minor incidents of falling debris. Most of the targets have been military or O&G facilities. Pubs are still open!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,323

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Coe or Cleverly in front seat
    Seb Coe is a lot older IRL than in most people's memories of him winning gold medals or even opening the Olympics, and in two years' time, he will be two years older.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,970
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
    Yes there will be some oil price volatility, until we know exactly what’s going on and how long any disruption might last, but other markets had a conflict pretty much priced in already.

    Not sure that Iran bombing most of the GCC was on anyone’s immediate radar though.
    This, though, is why there's some urgent in going after Iranian launch sites.

    The UAE has now burned through a significant chunk of an interceptor stockpile that took years to build — in 48 hours.
    https://x.com/ka_grieco/status/2028198688250536223

    Aside from the cost ratio (the defending systems, unless they're using lasers, cost at least 10x what they're shooting down), you simply can't build interceptor missiles as quickly as you can Shahed type drones.
    And none of the gulf states yet have the more cost effective Ukrainian systems.
    Indeed. I’m expecting a concerted effort in the next 24-48 hours to take out launch sites, warehouses, and obliterating that big drone factory (and its shadow in Russia). There’s not a lot of Iranian air defences left.
    I am surprised Yelabuga hasn't received more attention. However it is very big, will burn less well than a hydrocarbon plant, and will have very good AD. It probably needs a big drone swarm to occupy the AD and a *lot* of Flamingos
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    Dura_Ace said:

    That video on the BBC news site of a US jet fighter crashing looks quite odd. The plane appears to be just falling pancake style to the ground with no obvious signs of damage, fire, etc. Is it real? What is likely to have happened to it? @Sandpit ?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy0dp1l57nxt

    Flat spin with no thrust - could be anything. Deep stall. Uncontained engine failure that takes out the other one. Contained engine failure but the crew run restart procedure on the good engine (seen that done more than once). Near miss from a blue-on-blue. Basically, if anybody says they know, they are a bullshitter.
    Said to be a video of the actual incident:

    https://x.com/amk_mapping_/status/2028345253405872170

    Engine failure, or engaged by something? Can’t obviously see a missile on the video.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,120
    stodge said:

    Morning all 🙂

    With the not insignificant caveat we are still two years from the London Mayoral election, which is an eternity in politics, my immediate thought reading this was if this is the level of Tryl’s analysis, we probably shouldn’t take his polling too seriously.

    I suspect the 2028 London Mayoral runoff will be between the Labour candidate (probably Khan) and the Conservative candidate (Seb Coe, James Cleverly or A.N Other). The question will then be whether the anti-Khan vote (which exists) will overcome any distaste for the opposing candidate.

    Unless current events trigger a schism or a bulk defection from Labour to the Greens and assuming Badenoch can keep going, it’s hard to see either Laila Cunningham or the Green candidate making the top two.

    Yes, either or both could finish first or second in particular Boroughs but neither has at this time significant London wide support to break the duopoly.

    The locals in May will have some significance but with two years before the Mayoral contest, it would be unwise to make betting assumptions for London on whether Labour holds on in Newham.

    Seb Coe will be 71. I don't see him being the candidate. If he had any ambition for the role, he would have run previously. Cleverly may decide he doesn't want to make the same mistake as Burnham.

    It is a long time until the mayoral vote, but trading bets could still make money in the shorter term. I imagine the odds on the Greens and Reform winning will shorten following the London borough elections. Where we will actually be, politically speaking, in 2028 is hard to know! It's possible that Reform will have completely eclipsed the Tories, so they will be seen as the obvious choice on the right. But then it's possible that Reform will have imploded, so 🤷‍♂️.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,363
    On topic - I would see Sadiq Khan doing OK with the Muslim vote because the gibber-loons of the Right keep gabbling away to themselves about Londonistan and how he is inclined to impose Sharia Law and jabber jabber jabber ...

    It's all bollocks, as we know, but it will help him.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Only time the Tories got a million votes for London Mayor was Boris 2008, and that was 1.04m.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Coe or Cleverly in front seat
    Seb Coe is a lot older IRL than in most people's memories of him winning gold medals or even opening the Olympics, and in two years' time, he will be two years older.
    Seb Coe is nearly 70, but would have been a great choice a decade ago. Ditto Charlie Mullins.

    They need to find someone similar though, someone ‘famous’ not as a politician, but with some serious administive experience behind them.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,183

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Coe or Cleverly in front seat
    Seb Coe is a lot older IRL than in most people's memories of him winning gold medals or even opening the Olympics, and in two years' time, he will be two years older.
    I doubt Seb Coe would be the ideal candidate now and Cleverly may have loftier ambitions.

    There aren’t many well known Conservatives in London currently - could IDS be persuaded? I suspect not. In any case, it’s a choice of London Conservative members and as we saw last time, that doesn’t turn out as you might hope or expect.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,410
    edited 9:53AM
    Reform still poll much worse in London than the rest of the UK so I would say a Tory v Green or Labour Mayoral election in 2028 is more likely than Reform v Green.

    For example, the latest Yougov has Reform on 24% UK wide but just 14% in London. The Tories meanwhile are on 18% in London, the same as the 18% the Tories are on UK wide now.

    The Greens by contrast are on 24% in London which is above the 17% Yougov has the Greens on UK wide. Labour are on 30% in London compared to just 18% UK wide so you could even get a Labour v Green final 2 in 2028 in which you would get the astonishing site of many Tory and Reform voters having to hold their nose and vote for Khan or another Labour candidate on preferences if the Mayoral election returns to STV to beat the even more woke leftist Green candidate!
    https://yougov.com/en-gb/trackers/voting-intention
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    edited 9:51AM

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Coe or Cleverly in front seat
    Seb Coe is a lot older IRL than in most people's memories of him winning gold medals or even opening the Olympics, and in two years' time, he will be two years older.
    Don't see a problem with someone clearly still fit in their seventies doing the London mayor role. We have too many young and naive politicians (led astray by even younger and less worldly advisers).

    I would consider voting for him.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,266
    Etihad Airways also just announced suspension of all services until tomorrow.

    https://x.com/etihad/status/2028406045983531081

    There were apparently a couple of flights boarding.

    Those leaving so far have been only cargo and positioning flights.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,363
    Roger said:

    OT I think......

    Half the BBC are now comfortably ensconced on the fairly empty beaches of Tel Aviv. Waitress service in action. Happily none in Tehran where I'm told the hospitality is -and I quote-'Shit'. Keep the chat coming Anna. It might not be informative but it's always nice to hear stories from the front line.

    Shades of CNN reporting live from Saudi Arabia?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWtwjDhgN3Q
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWY14eyMFg&t=98s

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,745
    Do these odds take into account the possibility that Trump might decide that Khan is overdue for the Maduro/Khamenei treatment? He's been very critical of him before.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,984
    edited 9:54AM
    Sandpit said:

    MelonB said:

    So far this morning as markets reopen:

    - Brent crude: $79.92, up 9.67%
    - UK wholesale natural gas: $102.74 per thermal, highest since the January cold snap
    - FTSE 100: 10,807, down 1%
    - GBP:USD 1.33, down 1 cent since the start of strikes
    - UK 10-year gilt: 4.262%. Virtually uncharged from Friday lows

    As of this morning, a fairly muted reaction.

    Depressingly, I think ME wars are pretty much priced into the markets now, to some extent (the oil prices aside where there is an acute impact).
    Yes there will be some oil price volatility, until we know exactly what’s going on and how long any disruption might last, but other markets had a conflict pretty much priced in already.

    Not sure that Iran bombing most of the GCC was on anyone’s immediate radar though.
    Interesting article from last year about lessons (not) learnt from Britain's disastrous WW1 campaign in the Dardanelles against the Ottomans

    https://warontherocks.com/2025/06/a-strait-comparison-lessons-from-the-dardanelles-for-a-strait-of-hormuz-closure/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,774
    HYUFD said:

    Reform still poll much worse in London than the rest of the UK so I would say a Tory v Green or Labour Mayoral election in 2028 is more likely than Reform v Green.

    For example, the latest Yougov has Reform on 24% UK wide but just 14% in London. The Tories meanwhile are on 18% in London, the same as the 18% the Tories are on UK wide now.

    The Greens by contrast are on 24% in London which is above the 17% Yougov has the Greens on UK wide. Labour are on 30% in London compared to just 18% UK wide so you could even get a Labour v Green final 2 in 2028 in which you would get the astonishing site of many Tory and Reform voters having to hold their nose and vote for Khan or another Labour candidate on preferences if the Mayoral election returns to STV to beat the even more woke leftist Green candidate!
    https://yougov.com/en-gb/trackers/voting-intention

    Has is it been confirmed that they are moving away from FPTP again?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,183
    HYUFD said:

    Reform still poll much worse in London than the rest of the UK so I would say a Tory v Green Mayoral election in 2028 is more likely than Reform v Green.

    For example, the latest Yougov has Reform on 24% UK wide but just 14% in London. The Tories meanwhile are on 18% in London, the same as the 18% the Tories are on UK wide now.

    The Greens by contrast are on 24% in London which is above the 17% Yougov has the Greens on UK wide. Labour are on 30% in London compared to just 18% UK wide so you could even get a Labour v Green final 2 in 2028 in which you would get the astonishing site of many Tory and Reform voters having to hold their nose and vote for Khan on preferences if the Mayoral election returns to STV to beat the even more woke leftist Green candidate!
    https://yougov.com/en-gb/trackers/voting-intention

    Come on, this is a tiny sub sample and I didn’t think we played those games!

    The last Savanta London poll (for a Westminster, not London Mayoral election) from December had Labour on 30%, Reform on 21% and both Green and Conservatives on 17% so you could argue on those numbers a Labour vs Reform runoff is more likely.

    Presumably, will we see Conservatives holding their noses and voting for Khan to beat the Reform candidate?

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,517
    stodge said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not sure it will be Reform vs Geeen. Reform likely to come fourth in wards in London in May and I've not seen any polling or evidence that suggests Laila Cunningham is surging as a candidate beyond her just being on the telly all the time.

    Have the Tories even found a candidate yet? They risk getting lift behind in this race.

    Reform have played a blinder by appointing Laila early and getting her lots of press. She presents well on TV, unlike many others in her party.
    Tories haven't selected yet but its two years off.
    Cunninghams (unwarrented imo) shine will fade after May as she's "leading' what will be a poor result compared to the rest of England
    Reform will still be making gains. That they aren't as good as elsewhere may not matter. She'll still be able to look like a winner enough.
    I think right of centre Londoners will still gravitate to the Con candidate. Time will tell.
    Depends on who it is, the last one was an idiot
    Millions of Tories in London, there have to be some good ones?
    Coe or Cleverly in front seat
    Seb Coe is a lot older IRL than in most people's memories of him winning gold medals or even opening the Olympics, and in two years' time, he will be two years older.
    I doubt Seb Coe would be the ideal candidate now and Cleverly may have loftier ambitions.

    There aren’t many well known Conservatives in London currently - could IDS be persuaded? I suspect not. In any case, it’s a choice of London Conservative members and as we saw last time, that doesn’t turn out as you might hope or expect.
    Coe will be 71 and IDS 74 by the election.
    The Conservatives already are seen as the Pensioners Trade Union.
    Haven't they anyone of working age?
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