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All right stop, collaborate and listen, ICE is back with my brand new invention

SystemSystem Posts: 12,965
edited 8:07AM in General
All right stop, collaborate and listen, ICE is back with my brand new invention– politicalbetting.com

63% of Britons have a negative view of the United States' ICE agency, as Reform UK announces it would create a British equivalent to carry out proposals to deport hundreds of thousands migrants per yearNegative: 63%Neither: 8%Positive: 11%yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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Comments

  • occasionalranteroccasionalranter Posts: 835
    * is seen as very negative
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,092
    Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,320
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

    OMG, Reform have lost you now !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,492
    occasionalranter said:

    * is seen as very negative

    Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

    Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,789
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    occasionalranter said:

    * is seen as very negative

    Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

    Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.
    What subtle 90s pop reference?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,282
    edited 8:15AM
    I am not a fan of ICE but on the Yougov poll more Reform voters have a positive view of ICE than negative and more therefore back deporting migrants than oppose it so Farage and Yusuf are proposing what their base wants.

    A majority of Labour, LD, Green and even Tory voters though have a negative view of ICE and deporting migrants so that could also lead to increased tactical voting against Reform
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Vanilla ICE bollox
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,092
    edited 8:15AM
    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,795
    Sounds very dubious. Will UK-ICE be armed? Where are they going to get the recruits from? Their vetting process for candidates in elections seems to leave quite a bit to be desired.

    Good morning, everybody.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    edited 8:16AM
    wooliedyed said:

    Vanilla ICE bollox

    Is the very unsubtle 90s reference.
    Hip hop for pussies
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,795
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

    Rupert Lowe seems - seems - to have a wedge of thought-through policies complete with how-we'd-set-about-it. That may be what has thrown Reform into a tailspin, because Nigel Farage has never been much of a one for the How part.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,220
    AnneJGP said:

    Sounds very dubious. Will UK-ICE be armed? Where are they going to get the recruits from? Their vetting process for candidates in elections seems to leave quite a bit to be desired.

    Recruits will be the least of their problems. There are plenty of white trash chavs who would do it for free.

    The bigger issues will be the media piss storm when they detain the wrong person, injure/kill somebody or when a community inevitably and justifiably fights back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,789
    wooliedyed said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Vanilla ICE bollox

    Is the very unsubtle 90s reference.
    Hip hop for pussies
    I was wondering if there was a subtle one somewhere that had been obscured by the incredibly unsubtle one. Classic distraction therapy.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,005
    HYUFD said:

    I am not a fan of ICE but on the Yougov poll more Reform voters have a positive view of ICE than negative and more therefore back deporting migrants than oppose it so Farage and Yusuf are proposing what their base wants.

    A majority of Labour, LD, Green and even Tory voters though have a negative view of ICE and deporting migrants so that could also lead to increased tactical voting against Reform

    Reform may need to go beyond their base to win a general election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,492
    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    occasionalranter said:

    * is seen as very negative

    Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

    Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.
    What subtle 90s pop reference?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE&list=RDrog8ou-ZepE&start_radio=1
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,789
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    occasionalranter said:

    * is seen as very negative

    Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

    Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.
    What subtle 90s pop reference?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE&list=RDrog8ou-ZepE&start_radio=1
    To rephrase my question:

    What *subtle* 90s pop reference?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,697
    bondegezou said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

    They long have.

    What Reform haven’t been able to do, I suggest, is create a vision for populist right government that is distinct from the increasingly discredited approach of Trump/Vance/Miller/Thiel/Musk.
    Dangers of a shared language and social media that knows no borders.

    On sites like X, Britons and Americans are indistinguishable. So the British right get drowned in American culture war nonsense and there's little way for them to tell that that stuff doesn't really fly in the UK.

    I'm not sure that the politics is working that well stateside, but here there's a much wider realisation that ICE isn't nice.

    It's a problem for Farage, but also for Badenoch.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,213
    edited 8:27AM
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

    It is interesting how quickly they look passe. The zeitgeist has moved on. I can't think of anything they could now do that would make them look attractive to anyone but the 20% of uneducated quasi racists who will in any event move on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,622
    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Would they really ?

    Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
    It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
    There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

    Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,556
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Would they really ?

    Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
    It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
    There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

    Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.
    The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

    There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,622
    bondegezou said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am not a fan of ICE but on the Yougov poll more Reform voters have a positive view of ICE than negative and more therefore back deporting migrants than oppose it so Farage and Yusuf are proposing what their base wants.

    A majority of Labour, LD, Green and even Tory voters though have a negative view of ICE and deporting migrants so that could also lead to increased tactical voting against Reform

    Reform may need to go beyond their base to win a general election.
    That would mean abandoning some of their base, though.

    Trump hijacked an existing party, which had the semi-automatic vote of around 40% of the electorate.
    Reform are starting from scratch, and are merely picking up the retreads from the GOP equivalent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    I read this thread, and something grabs a hold of me tightly
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,489
    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,098
    Advice to Farage: ice ICE, baby...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,710
    edited 8:42AM
    Sandpit said:

    Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

    The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

    On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,098
    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,127
    The UK needs to decide if we want to be Trump's golf colony or an independent nation.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Selebian said:

    ...Check out the crooks while DJT absolves it...

    I like this.
    But ive long believed anything less than the best is a felony
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,199
    edited 8:53AM
    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    Yeah and there are no laws that can stop any of this right now.... You'd really prefer a pogrom wouldn't you?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,540
    edited 8:50AM
    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    You can do all of that as part of establishing a "Mosque of England" and send KCIII into paroxysms of joy by making him the head of another religion, while marching under the banner of inclusivity.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,489
    edited 8:51AM
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,492
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

    The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

    On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?
    Nah, it was God Save The Queen, the other clip that brought a tear to my eye was a Ukrainian army tank commander in 2023 saying how fitting it was that 80 years on British tanks were once again beating Nazis in Kursk.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,928
    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc :lol:
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,676
    There are three issues, to be sharply delineated and distinguished.

    1) WRT migration/remigration/boats and everything else, what is the election winning, therefore simplistic, public face of Reform and other parties. Is it possible to discern a systematic and feasible policy from the rhetoric, hints and contradictions?

    2) WRT ditto, what is the detailed election manifesto policy alongside the latest policy documents

    3) What will any winning party forming a government actually do, and how will they do it.

    The first of these issues is only interesting electorally. It bears no relation to what will actually occur. The second is a mixture of confusion and unknowable. The third waits for us in 2029.

    If I had to guess on one factor, a Reform government will not forcibly repatriate a single person who has ILR at the time their government starts, and who does not have a significant criminal history.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    Yeah and there are no laws that can stop any of this right now.... You'd really prefer a pogrom wouldn't you.
    What are you on about? I can’t work out if you’re objecting to my ideas because I’m saying them or refusing to believe that I’m saying them

    Talk sense, man
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,959
    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals is one thing.

    A bunch of racist assholes, masked up, dressed as Meal Team Six ninjas, beating people up, detaining them for months for no reason and shooting people for existing, is another.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Selebian said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc :lol:
    Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
    Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,710
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

    The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

    On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?
    Nah, it was God Save The Queen, the other clip that brought a tear to my eye was a Ukrainian army tank commander in 2023 saying how fitting it was that 80 years on British tanks were once again beating Nazis in Kursk.
    To be brutally honest the British supplied tanks at Kursk were unlikely to be taking out many Nazi tanks, much like the 14 Challengers.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,968
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks
    You hardly spend any time in Blighty!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,282
    edited 9:03AM
    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    On the other hand 38% don't view ICE negatively which would be enough for a clear Reform majority if they squeezed DKs and undecideds about ICE. Albeit anti Reform tactical votes could still stop them
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks
    You hardly spend any time in Blighty!
    Certainly not in winter, no

    What sane person would?!
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 762
    It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

    This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

    6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,005
    Casino_Royale said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Would they really ?

    Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
    It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
    There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

    Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.
    The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

    There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.
    36607 people were deported in 2025. It would be odd if not a single person were to be deported under a Reform govt! Get real.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,730
    Malmesbury said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals is one thing.

    A bunch of racist assholes, masked up, dressed as Meal Team Six ninjas, beating people up, detaining them for months for no reason and shooting people for existing, is another.
    Over the course of a parliament all our recent governments, Tory, Labour and Coalition have deported tens of thousands of foreign criminals.

    The difference in approach seems to be that under Reform the definition of foreign and criminal is left to the Daily Mail rather than the courts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,320
    HYUFD said:


    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    On the other hand 38% don't view ICE negatively which would be enough for a clear Reform majority if they squeezed DKs and undecideds about ICE. Albeit anti Reform tactical votes could still stop them
    Reform have the branding wrong.

    I’d wager a whole five pound note if the question was phrased differently and ICE not mentioned the numbers would be more in Reforms favour.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,320
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks
    Eabhal is very good as misrepresenting people’s views.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,320
    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,928
    wooliedyed said:

    Selebian said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc :lol:
    Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
    Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately
    A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    That’s an astute observation - I suspect it’s true
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,939
    Leon said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks
    You hardly spend any time in Blighty!
    Certainly not in winter, no

    What sane person would?!
    I checked my solar stats this morning. Production for this February has been around half that of last year (though still five days left!). Last February was worth being in Britain for, but this February has been almost relentlessly dreary.
    The blossom's out on my tree in the back garden though. So that's nice.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,710
    War is shit, part 500263.

    https://x.com/davegreenidge57/status/2025932573965168686?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,968
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks
    You hardly spend any time in Blighty!
    Certainly not in winter, no

    What sane person would?!
    I checked my solar stats this morning. Production for this February has been around half that of last year (though still five days left!). Last February was worth being in Britain for, but this February has been almost relentlessly dreary.
    The blossom's out on my tree in the back garden though. So that's nice.
    17 degrees in London tomorrow :sunglasses:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Selebian said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Selebian said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc :lol:
    Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
    Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately
    A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.
    Cant see Bravermam moving though. Jenrick will sell his soul anywhere he can get nominated. Rosindell is obsessed with Margaret Thatcher House, Romford. Kruger? Who knows, hes not exactly a draw anywhere, hes just an identikit MP
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,213
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.
    I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”
    A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

    If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.
    Colour swatches are an interesting idea. I couldn't help but wonder whether the Zia Yusuf photo on the Guardian atop the header was a bit of old fashioned mischief for Farage's Racebaiter General
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,127
    Casino_Royale said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Would they really ?

    Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
    It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
    There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

    Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.
    The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

    There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.
    They'll just ignore the law.
    That's also part of the Trump approach.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,282
    wooliedyed said:

    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
    Reform will be third in Gorton but first in Denton, the former is full of students and has lots of Muslims, the latter is mainly white working class. So overall it will likely be very close between Reform, Labour and the Greens
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,245
    edited 9:18AM
    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    Much of that is startlingly similar to Turkey.

    And there are a couple of red herrings that would have no practical effect.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,928
    wooliedyed said:

    Selebian said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Selebian said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc :lol:
    Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
    Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately
    A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.
    Cant see Bravermam moving though. Jenrick will sell his soul anywhere he can get nominated. Rosindell is obsessed with Margaret Thatcher House, Romford. Kruger? Who knows, hes not exactly a draw anywhere, hes just an identikit MP
    Yeah, Jenrick was who I was realy thinking of, maybe Braverman. For all that he's an unpleasant little shit, Jenrick is the one (other than Farage) with some actual political skill. Rosindell and Kruger are going to draw blank looks from most people.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,928
    Theuniondivvie said:

    War is shit, part 500263.

    https://x.com/davegreenidge57/status/2025932573965168686?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Liking the ambiguity of the typo 'moral'. The crew have such bad morals that they are sabotaging the system?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,012
    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
    Reform will be third in Gorton but first in Denton, the former is full of students and has lots of Muslims, the latter is mainly white working class. So overall it will likely be very close between Reform, Labour and the Greens
    Apparently the Omnisis poll undersampled in Denton but over sampled in more Green friendly areas . It was also a mix of phone and online so there might have been a degree of the shy Reform voter because of the former .

    It’s still possible Reform could win if the progressive vote remains more split .
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,362
    wooliedyed said:

    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
    Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,798
    Like the Greens with their drug policy (which I support), Reform's policy platform is creating future attack lines against them. Most notable hostages to fortune I can think of are:
    1) Attack on worker's rights
    2) ICE-style thugs on our streets

    With five parties between say ~12% and ~28% (on average), being the most popular party isn't going to be sufficient if you're also the most unpopular party. As I suspect we'll see on Thursday night.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Selebian said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Selebian said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Selebian said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc :lol:
    Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
    Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately
    A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.
    Cant see Bravermam moving though. Jenrick will sell his soul anywhere he can get nominated. Rosindell is obsessed with Margaret Thatcher House, Romford. Kruger? Who knows, hes not exactly a draw anywhere, hes just an identikit MP
    Yeah, Jenrick was who I was realy thinking of, maybe Braverman. For all that he's an unpleasant little shit, Jenrick is the one (other than Farage) with some actual political skill. Rosindell and Kruger are going to draw blank looks from most people.
    Skill, and all the morals of a twix bar. Braverman is no better but i think is wedded to Fareham.
    Rosindell and Kruger are A.N.Others as you say
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,676
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    Much of that is startlingly similar to Turkey.

    And there are a couple of red herrings that would have no practical effect.
    Also Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. These are Muslim countries and they have deep, unhappy knowledge of the horrors associated with Islamic extremism, and virtually all of the laws or policies I've suggested above are policies in those countries. They also manage to combine this with widespread religiosity of a moderate kind, and big happy families (healthy birthrates) and obvious gender equality

    You see far more hijabs in a British city than in Almaty or Bishkek

    We should learn from The Stans
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,245
    A very clear and direct Court ruling against ICE discussed by Glen Kirschner, 11 minutes.

    "An Anonymous Government is No Government At All"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn43KhmLlLU
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 762
    The Tory ICE plans could be existential forva Party already clinging on.

    They can't be erased now, not only has the Tory ICE plan been announced, as recently as yesterday, the Tory Leader was castigating Farage and Yusuf for nicking Tory Policy.

    This will be the SCHISM issue that sees the honourable One Nation wing revolt and enforce leadership change.

    Badenoch might be applauding losing MPs to Reform but they were the very MPs that would have supported Tory ICE, I'm not sure there is a majority for it now.

    Brexit like divisions and fissures on plain sight.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,959
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

    The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

    On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?
    Nah, it was God Save The Queen, the other clip that brought a tear to my eye was a Ukrainian army tank commander in 2023 saying how fitting it was that 80 years on British tanks were once again beating Nazis in Kursk.
    To be brutally honest the British supplied tanks at Kursk were unlikely to be taking out many Nazi tanks, much like the 14 Challengers.
    Don’t buy into the myth of Nazi uber-tanks.

    The super heavy stuff was extremely rare and broke down all the time.

    And not a few got killed anyway. The first Tiger lost in North Africa was taken out by a British… drum roll.. 6lbr.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,737
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    Much of that is startlingly similar to Turkey.

    And there are a couple of red herrings that would have no practical effect.
    Simply reducing the opportunities for extracting money from the state would do a lot to change the economic incentives.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,737
    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

    Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

    It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

    That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

    The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Talking of Fareham, the locals in May might be an interesting test of Suellas appeal there. Its half up and the Tories need to hold 6 of the 13 wards they are defending (or 6 combining with gains from the 3 LD wards) to retain majority control.
    Britain Votes site has a projection of exactly 6 holds, conveniently.
    Whilst a hold will be a hold 'with losses' (should it occur), it will be a weapon to deploy against Suella going forward.
    Hold 7/8 and they probably outpoll Reform there too........

    I think they might end up just short and in minority control though
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,695
    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

    Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

    It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

    That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

    The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

    How very convenient for Starmer
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    Dopermean said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
    Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?
    Thats possible, but why select him?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,540
    bondegezou said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Would they really ?

    Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
    It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
    There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

    Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.
    The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

    There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.
    36607 people were deported in 2025. It would be odd if not a single person were to be deported under a Reform govt! Get real.
    So Reform would only need three doublings to reach their annual target. Maybe it wouldn't require ICE-style brutality to achieve, and Reform are leaning into the ICE-style propaganda merely to keep their base happy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,320
    Ratters said:

    Like the Greens with their drug policy (which I support), Reform's policy platform is creating future attack lines against them. Most notable hostages to fortune I can think of are:
    1) Attack on worker's rights
    2) ICE-style thugs on our streets

    With five parties between say ~12% and ~28% (on average), being the most popular party isn't going to be sufficient if you're also the most unpopular party. As I suspect we'll see on Thursday night.

    Workers already have rights. They will still have rights if they repeal labours bill.

    I think they are right to do it. I believe it counterproductive

    What I disagree with is the ban on WFH. Let the market decide, let the employer and employee decide. If it’s private sector.

    Reform of public sector pensions is overdue and welcome.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,256
    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

    Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

    It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

    That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

    The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

    As predicted by pb but apparently not by Opposition politicians calling for both publication and prosecution.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,320
    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

    Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

    It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

    That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

    The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

    Most convenient for SKS.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,245
    wooliedyed said:

    Dopermean said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
    Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?
    Thats possible, but why select him?
    (conspiracy)

    Perhaps it's a la Trump and he wants a rival to lose.

    (/conspiracy)
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,362
    MattW said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Dopermean said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Taz said:

    wooliedyed said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

    At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

    And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

    Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon
    Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D
    If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third
    Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?
    Thats possible, but why select him?
    (conspiracy)

    Perhaps it's a la Trump and he wants a rival to lose.

    (/conspiracy)
    Or the vetting was poor, they hadn't picked up the extent of the eugenics stuff, and his eyes are swiveling more by the day?
  • isamisam Posts: 43,694
    Brixian59 said:

    It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

    This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

    6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

    It shouldn't really be a choice between relentless miserable weather and a conveyer belt of pretend asylum seekers.

    If only there were another way
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,592
    StillWaters said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

    Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

    It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

    That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

    The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

    How very convenient for Starmer
    Coukd it be challenged in Court
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,786
    For projecting the next GE fans, Baxter has updated the model to the latest MRPs, its producing slightly different type results now (less apocalyptic for Tories notably)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,256
    Russia buys ‘Trojan horse’ homes near military bases across Europe
    Kremlin spies acquiring network of sites designed to launch sabotage campaigns
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/02/23/russian-spies-buy-homes-close-military-sites-europe-kremlin/ (£££)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,928
    LostPassword said:

    bondegezou said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

    Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

    Would they really ?

    Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
    It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
    There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

    Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.
    The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

    There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.
    36607 people were deported in 2025. It would be odd if not a single person were to be deported under a Reform govt! Get real.
    So Reform would only need three doublings to reach their annual target. Maybe it wouldn't require ICE-style brutality to achieve, and Reform are leaning into the ICE-style propaganda merely to keep their base happy.
    Can be done far easier than that. Give the deportees a plane ticket back to UK and a nice wedge of cash (payable on third deportation) and you can triple the numbers in no time :smiley:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,540
    isam said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

    This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

    6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

    It shouldn't really be a choice between relentless miserable weather and a conveyer belt of pretend asylum seekers.

    If only there were another way
    If Starmer turned out to be a techno-wizard genius with the power to control the weather, such that when he said he was going to, "smash the gangs," the unspoken part was that he was going to, "smash the gangs with my awesome control of Atlantic depressions," it would be kinda ironic if he lost the next general election anyway because of the feel-bad factor of relentless bad weather.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,098
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Russia buys ‘Trojan horse’ homes near military bases across Europe
    Kremlin spies acquiring network of sites designed to launch sabotage campaigns
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/02/23/russian-spies-buy-homes-close-military-sites-europe-kremlin/ (£££)

    Be a shame if there were a series of "gas explosions" in those properties...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,695
    edited 9:50AM
    squareroot2 said:

    StillWaters said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

    Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

    It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

    That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

    The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

    How very convenient for Starmer
    Coukd it be challenged in Court
    Doubt it. I don’t think a Humble Address has legal force
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,928
    isam said:

    Brixian59 said:

    It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

    This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

    6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

    It shouldn't really be a choice between relentless miserable weather and a conveyer belt of pretend asylum seekers.

    If only there were another way
    We only need shirty weather in the south (indeed, really only on the french north coast).

    Fog in the channel, continent cut off...
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,124
    edited 9:55AM
    Leon said:

    There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

    You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

    Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

    These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

    Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

    If halal slaughter is to be banned, then kosher slaughter should should certainly also be banned. They are both cruel methods, but kosher slaughter is distinctly worse since it forbids stunning before the animal's throat is cut whereas halal slaughter usually permits stunning.
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