All right stop, collaborate and listen, ICE is back with my brand new invention

System

All right stop, collaborate and listen, ICE is back with my brand new invention– politicalbetting.com

63% of Britons have a negative view of the United States' ICE agency, as Reform UK announces it would create a British equivalent to carry out proposals to deport hundreds of thousands migrants per yearNegative: 63%Neither: 8%Positive: 11%yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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OnlyLivingBoy

Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

occasionalranter

* is seen as very negative

Sandpit

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

bondegezou

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

They long have.

What Reform haven’t been able to do, I suggest, is create a vision for populist right government that is distinct from the increasingly discredited approach of Trump/Vance/Miller/Thiel/Musk.

Taz

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

OMG, Reform have lost you now !

TheScreamingEagles

occasionalranter said:

* is seen as very negative

Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

occasionalranter said:

* is seen as very negative

Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.

What subtle 90s pop reference?

HYUFD

I am not a fan of ICE but on the Yougov poll more Reform voters have a positive view of ICE than negative and more therefore back deporting migrants than oppose it so Farage and Yusuf are proposing what their base wants.

A majority of Labour, LD, Green and even Tory voters though have a negative view of ICE and deporting migrants so that could also lead to increased tactical voting against Reform

wooliedyed

Vanilla ICE bollox

Sandpit

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

AnneJGP

Sounds very dubious. Will UK-ICE be armed? Where are they going to get the recruits from? Their vetting process for candidates in elections seems to leave quite a bit to be desired.

Good morning, everybody.

wooliedyed

wooliedyed said:

Vanilla ICE bollox

Is the very unsubtle 90s reference.
Hip hop for pussies

AnneJGP

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

Rupert Lowe seems - seems - to have a wedge of thought-through policies complete with how-we'd-set-about-it. That may be what has thrown Reform into a tailspin, because Nigel Farage has never been much of a one for the How part.

Dura_Ace

AnneJGP said:

Sounds very dubious. Will UK-ICE be armed? Where are they going to get the recruits from? Their vetting process for candidates in elections seems to leave quite a bit to be desired.

Recruits will be the least of their problems. There are plenty of white trash chavs who would do it for free.

The bigger issues will be the media piss storm when they detain the wrong person, injure/kill somebody or when a community inevitably and justifiably fights back.

ydoethur

wooliedyed said:

wooliedyed said:

Vanilla ICE bollox

Is the very unsubtle 90s reference.
Hip hop for pussies

I was wondering if there was a subtle one somewhere that had been obscured by the incredibly unsubtle one. Classic distraction therapy.

bondegezou

HYUFD said:

I am not a fan of ICE but on the Yougov poll more Reform voters have a positive view of ICE than negative and more therefore back deporting migrants than oppose it so Farage and Yusuf are proposing what their base wants.

A majority of Labour, LD, Green and even Tory voters though have a negative view of ICE and deporting migrants so that could also lead to increased tactical voting against Reform

Reform may need to go beyond their base to win a general election.

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

occasionalranter said:

* is seen as very negative

Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.

What subtle 90s pop reference?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE&list=RDrog8ou-ZepE&start_radio=1

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

occasionalranter said:

* is seen as very negative

Yes, well done for spotting my deliberate mistake.

Question is will anyone spot my subtle 90s pop music reference.

What subtle 90s pop reference?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE&list=RDrog8ou-ZepE&start_radio=1

To rephrase my question:

What *subtle* 90s pop reference?

Stuartinromford

bondegezou said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

They long have.

What Reform haven’t been able to do, I suggest, is create a vision for populist right government that is distinct from the increasingly discredited approach of Trump/Vance/Miller/Thiel/Musk.

Dangers of a shared language and social media that knows no borders.

On sites like X, Britons and Americans are indistinguishable. So the British right get drowned in American culture war nonsense and there's little way for them to tell that that stuff doesn't really fly in the UK.

I'm not sure that the politics is working that well stateside, but here there's a much wider realisation that ICE isn't nice.

It's a problem for Farage, but also for Badenoch.

Roger

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Reform increasingly look like a sad Trump tribute act.

It is interesting how quickly they look passe. The zeitgeist has moved on. I can't think of anything they could now do that would make them look attractive to anyone but the 20% of uneducated quasi racists who will in any event move on.

Nigelb

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Would they really ?

Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.

bondegezou

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Obama deported more foreign criminals than Trump. ICE under Trump are not efficiently deporting criminals. What they’re doing is mass detaining brown people.

Casino_Royale

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Would they really ?

Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.

The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.

Nigelb

bondegezou said:

HYUFD said:

I am not a fan of ICE but on the Yougov poll more Reform voters have a positive view of ICE than negative and more therefore back deporting migrants than oppose it so Farage and Yusuf are proposing what their base wants.

A majority of Labour, LD, Green and even Tory voters though have a negative view of ICE and deporting migrants so that could also lead to increased tactical voting against Reform

Reform may need to go beyond their base to win a general election.

That would mean abandoning some of their base, though.

Trump hijacked an existing party, which had the semi-automatic vote of around 40% of the electorate.
Reform are starting from scratch, and are merely picking up the retreads from the GOP equivalent.

Leon

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

wooliedyed

I read this thread, and something grabs a hold of me tightly

Eabhal

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

MarqueeMark

Advice to Farage: ice ICE, baby...

Leon

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

Theuniondivvie

Sandpit said:

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?

MarqueeMark

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Selebian

...Check out the crooks while DJT absolves it...

rkrkrk

The UK needs to decide if we want to be Trump's golf colony or an independent nation.

wooliedyed

Selebian said:

...Check out the crooks while DJT absolves it...

I like this.
But ive long believed anything less than the best is a felony

Cicero

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

Yeah and there are no laws that can stop any of this right now.... You'd really prefer a pogrom wouldn't you?

LostPassword

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

You can do all of that as part of establishing a "Mosque of England" and send KCIII into paroxysms of joy by making him the head of another religion, while marching under the banner of inclusivity.

wooliedyed

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Eabhal

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

TheScreamingEagles

Theuniondivvie said:

Sandpit said:

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?

Nah, it was God Save The Queen, the other clip that brought a tear to my eye was a Ukrainian army tank commander in 2023 saying how fitting it was that 80 years on British tanks were once again beating Nazis in Kursk.

Selebian

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc

algarkirk

There are three issues, to be sharply delineated and distinguished.

1) WRT migration/remigration/boats and everything else, what is the election winning, therefore simplistic, public face of Reform and other parties. Is it possible to discern a systematic and feasible policy from the rhetoric, hints and contradictions?

2) WRT ditto, what is the detailed election manifesto policy alongside the latest policy documents

3) What will any winning party forming a government actually do, and how will they do it.

The first of these issues is only interesting electorally. It bears no relation to what will actually occur. The second is a mixture of confusion and unknowable. The third waits for us in 2029.

If I had to guess on one factor, a Reform government will not forcibly repatriate a single person who has ILR at the time their government starts, and who does not have a significant criminal history.

Cicero

Sandpit said:

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

Just back from the Flag Raising for Estonian Independence Day. Biggest crowds I have ever seen, and plenty of Ukrainian colours still in evidence- the war is not forgotten. Head Vabariigi Aastapaeva! Elagu Eesti, Slava Ukraini!

Leon

Cicero said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

Yeah and there are no laws that can stop any of this right now.... You'd really prefer a pogrom wouldn't you.

What are you on about? I can’t work out if you’re objecting to my ideas because I’m saying them or refusing to believe that I’m saying them

Talk sense, man

Malmesbury

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals is one thing.

A bunch of racist assholes, masked up, dressed as Meal Team Six ninjas, beating people up, detaining them for months for no reason and shooting people for existing, is another.

wooliedyed

Selebian said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc

Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately

Leon

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks

Theuniondivvie

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Sandpit said:

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?

Nah, it was God Save The Queen, the other clip that brought a tear to my eye was a Ukrainian army tank commander in 2023 saying how fitting it was that 80 years on British tanks were once again beating Nazis in Kursk.

To be brutally honest the British supplied tanks at Kursk were unlikely to be taking out many Nazi tanks, much like the 14 Challengers.

Sunil_Prasannan

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks

You hardly spend any time in Blighty!

HYUFD

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

On the other hand 38% don't view ICE negatively which would be enough for a clear Reform majority if they squeezed DKs and undecideds about ICE. Albeit anti Reform tactical votes could still stop them

Leon

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks

You hardly spend any time in Blighty!

Certainly not in winter, no

What sane person would?!

Brixian59

It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

bondegezou

Casino_Royale said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Would they really ?

Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.

The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.

36607 people were deported in 2025. It would be odd if not a single person were to be deported under a Reform govt! Get real.

noneoftheabove

Malmesbury said:

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals is one thing.

A bunch of racist assholes, masked up, dressed as Meal Team Six ninjas, beating people up, detaining them for months for no reason and shooting people for existing, is another.

Over the course of a parliament all our recent governments, Tory, Labour and Coalition have deported tens of thousands of foreign criminals.

The difference in approach seems to be that under Reform the definition of foreign and criminal is left to the Daily Mail rather than the courts.

Taz

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

On the other hand 38% don't view ICE negatively which would be enough for a clear Reform majority if they squeezed DKs and undecideds about ICE. Albeit anti Reform tactical votes could still stop them

Reform have the branding wrong.

I’d wager a whole five pound note if the question was phrased differently and ICE not mentioned the numbers would be more in Reforms favour.

Taz

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks

Eabhal is very good as misrepresenting people’s views.

Taz

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

Selebian

wooliedyed said:

Selebian said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc

Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately

A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.

Leon

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

That’s an astute observation - I suspect it’s true

Cookie

Leon said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks

You hardly spend any time in Blighty!

Certainly not in winter, no

What sane person would?!

I checked my solar stats this morning. Production for this February has been around half that of last year (though still five days left!). Last February was worth being in Britain for, but this February has been almost relentlessly dreary.
The blossom's out on my tree in the back garden though. So that's nice.

Theuniondivvie

War is shit, part 500263.

https://x.com/davegreenidge57/status/2025932573965168686?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

wooliedyed

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Sunil_Prasannan

Cookie said:

Leon said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

You’ll have to remind of the moment I was “shaking with excitement” at the idea of a British ICE. And also maybe elaborate on how you could sense this vibration in Scotland given that I am in Southeast Asia and have been for many weeks

You hardly spend any time in Blighty!

Certainly not in winter, no

What sane person would?!

I checked my solar stats this morning. Production for this February has been around half that of last year (though still five days left!). Last February was worth being in Britain for, but this February has been almost relentlessly dreary.
The blossom's out on my tree in the back garden though. So that's nice.

17 degrees in London tomorrow

wooliedyed

Selebian said:

wooliedyed said:

Selebian said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc

Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately

A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.

Cant see Bravermam moving though. Jenrick will sell his soul anywhere he can get nominated. Rosindell is obsessed with Margaret Thatcher House, Romford. Kruger? Who knows, hes not exactly a draw anywhere, hes just an identikit MP

Roger

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

What kind of woke nonsense is this? It's forcible "re-migration" or you're a snowflake.

I must be having a weird spasm of “being nice and sensible”

A few days ago you were delighting in British people feeling so scared that they were considering emigrating. People who live, work and raise kids here (and likely hold the kind of secular views you want) - and you were shaking with excitement at the prospect.

If even people from Camden have instincts like that, the kind of limited approach you suggest isn't going to suffice - and nor is a British passport. We've going to have Brit-ICE patrolling the streets with colour swatches.

Colour swatches are an interesting idea. I couldn't help but wonder whether the Zia Yusuf photo on the Guardian atop the header was a bit of old fashioned mischief for Farage's Racebaiter General

rkrkrk

Casino_Royale said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Would they really ?

Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.

The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.

They'll just ignore the law.
That's also part of the Trump approach.

HYUFD

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Reform will be third in Gorton but first in Denton, the former is full of students and has lots of Muslims, the latter is mainly white working class. So overall it will likely be very close between Reform, Labour and the Greens

MattW

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

Much of that is startlingly similar to Turkey.

And there are a couple of red herrings that would have no practical effect.

Selebian

wooliedyed said:

Selebian said:

wooliedyed said:

Selebian said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc

Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately

A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.

Cant see Bravermam moving though. Jenrick will sell his soul anywhere he can get nominated. Rosindell is obsessed with Margaret Thatcher House, Romford. Kruger? Who knows, hes not exactly a draw anywhere, hes just an identikit MP

Yeah, Jenrick was who I was realy thinking of, maybe Braverman. For all that he's an unpleasant little shit, Jenrick is the one (other than Farage) with some actual political skill. Rosindell and Kruger are going to draw blank looks from most people.

Selebian

Theuniondivvie said:

War is shit, part 500263.

https://x.com/davegreenidge57/status/2025932573965168686?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

Liking the ambiguity of the typo 'moral'. The crew have such bad morals that they are sabotaging the system?

nico67

HYUFD said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Reform will be third in Gorton but first in Denton, the former is full of students and has lots of Muslims, the latter is mainly white working class. So overall it will likely be very close between Reform, Labour and the Greens

Apparently the Omnisis poll undersampled in Denton but over sampled in more Green friendly areas . It was also a mix of phone and online so there might have been a degree of the shy Reform voter because of the former .

It’s still possible Reform could win if the progressive vote remains more split .

Dopermean

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?

Ratters

Like the Greens with their drug policy (which I support), Reform's policy platform is creating future attack lines against them. Most notable hostages to fortune I can think of are:
1) Attack on worker's rights
2) ICE-style thugs on our streets

With five parties between say ~12% and ~28% (on average), being the most popular party isn't going to be sufficient if you're also the most unpopular party. As I suspect we'll see on Thursday night.

Cyclefree

@rcs1000 (fpt) - "when I read her, I don't get the feeling that there are any safeguards that would satisfy her. Her opposition to any form of legal assisted dying feels absolute."

Incorrect. The current bill is a disaster, a scandal in the making.

The Swiss option is the only sensible route ie decriminalisation of assisting someone who genuinely wants to end their life & not making a medical treatment ie it is completely decoupled from the health service. Plus proper safeguards around sign off & making all such deaths subject to the normal scrutiny given to all deaths.

I am surprised that no-one from Switzerland was called to give evidence on how they do it.

What we have instead is a Labour politician, Lord Falconer, saying openly in Parliament that it is ok for the state to help someone commit suicide because of that person's poverty. That is grotesque. There was a time when Labour thought its mission was to alleviate poverty not use it as a justification for killing.

As for living wills, yes I have made clear to my doctors that on no account are they to suggest suicide to me. They are not qualified to tell me my life is not worth living. I consider it both a gross breach of medical ethics for a doctor to do so & a breakdown in the trust there ought to be between doctor and patient.

But this misses the point. When the state-run health service has a financial interest in my early death because it is cheaper than treating me, then it has created a conflict of interest which means that I can never be confident that when I am told there is nothing more that can be done for me that is based purely on a medical assessment, not driven by financial considerations. People are naive if they think the latter won't happen. Not only will it happen - as we have seen elsewhere - but I believe it is the point of the legislation & the reason why even the limited safeguards contained in it & voted through by the Commons Falconer is now trying to water down in the Lords.

One final point: my son suffered serious mental illness at one point. The psychiatrists treating him saved him & I spent a great deal of money & effort getting him the help he needed. I did it out of love because when someone you care for is in despair you try to help. And then I hear Leadbetter say that helping someone not to commit suicide is a form of coercion. A parent's love and care are coercion, now are they? This is the voice of evil speaking. What are psychiatrists supposed to do with an ill patient - pass the poison across the table? It is evil.

Being a burden, having someone you care for is part of what it means to love and be loved. A state which views the vulnerable as useless mouths to feed, to be coerced because of poverty, because of a lack of palliative care into ending their lives, which views a parent's care as coercion, as something to be stopped, is one which is on a path to evil. Who will protect my son when I am gone?

Battlebus

HYUFD said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Reform will be third in Gorton but first in Denton, the former is full of students and has lots of Muslims, the latter is mainly white working class. So overall it will likely be very close between Reform, Labour and the Greens

I’m off to Seville for my OH’s birthday. Depending on Thursday we’ll either dine in the Alfonso XIII or McDonalds

wooliedyed

Selebian said:

wooliedyed said:

Selebian said:

wooliedyed said:

Selebian said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

The gradual decline of Reform , and one Bobby J losing his seat... Would take a heart of stone etc etc

Bobby J and Kruger will lose theirs i think (as we stand) and Braverman and Rosindell would be marginal
Anderson will waltz back in unfortunately

A little bit of candidate shuffling would seem likely, I guess, if Reform were not looking like making big gains. They would really need to be keeping their high profile figures as much as possible.

Cant see Bravermam moving though. Jenrick will sell his soul anywhere he can get nominated. Rosindell is obsessed with Margaret Thatcher House, Romford. Kruger? Who knows, hes not exactly a draw anywhere, hes just an identikit MP

Yeah, Jenrick was who I was realy thinking of, maybe Braverman. For all that he's an unpleasant little shit, Jenrick is the one (other than Farage) with some actual political skill. Rosindell and Kruger are going to draw blank looks from most people.

Skill, and all the morals of a twix bar. Braverman is no better but i think is wedded to Fareham.
Rosindell and Kruger are A.N.Others as you say

Leon

MattW said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

Much of that is startlingly similar to Turkey.

And there are a couple of red herrings that would have no practical effect.

Also Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, etc. These are Muslim countries and they have deep, unhappy knowledge of the horrors associated with Islamic extremism, and virtually all of the laws or policies I've suggested above are policies in those countries. They also manage to combine this with widespread religiosity of a moderate kind, and big happy families (healthy birthrates) and obvious gender equality

You see far more hijabs in a British city than in Almaty or Bishkek

We should learn from The Stans

MattW

A very clear and direct Court ruling against ICE discussed by Glen Kirschner, 11 minutes.

"An Anonymous Government is No Government At All"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn43KhmLlLU

Brixian59

The Tory ICE plans could be existential forva Party already clinging on.

They can't be erased now, not only has the Tory ICE plan been announced, as recently as yesterday, the Tory Leader was castigating Farage and Yusuf for nicking Tory Policy.

This will be the SCHISM issue that sees the honourable One Nation wing revolt and enforce leadership change.

Badenoch might be applauding losing MPs to Reform but they were the very MPs that would have supported Tory ICE, I'm not sure there is a majority for it now.

Brexit like divisions and fissures on plain sight.

Malmesbury

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Sandpit said:

Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

The corollary to that presumably being short lives to Trump, Vance and all the other Putin appeasers ☠️

On a mildly related note I recall there was unseemly self-pleasuring over the idea that Ukes were shouting God Save the Queen as they fired off their NLAWS, I wonder if it was a mishearing of Slava Ukraini?

Nah, it was God Save The Queen, the other clip that brought a tear to my eye was a Ukrainian army tank commander in 2023 saying how fitting it was that 80 years on British tanks were once again beating Nazis in Kursk.

To be brutally honest the British supplied tanks at Kursk were unlikely to be taking out many Nazi tanks, much like the 14 Challengers.

Don’t buy into the myth of Nazi uber-tanks.

The super heavy stuff was extremely rare and broke down all the time.

And not a few got killed anyway. The first Tiger lost in North Africa was taken out by a British… drum roll.. 6lbr.

williamglenn

MattW said:

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

Much of that is startlingly similar to Turkey.

And there are a couple of red herrings that would have no practical effect.

Simply reducing the opportunities for extracting money from the state would do a lot to change the economic incentives.

williamglenn

https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

wooliedyed

Talking of Fareham, the locals in May might be an interesting test of Suellas appeal there. Its half up and the Tories need to hold 6 of the 13 wards they are defending (or 6 combining with gains from the 3 LD wards) to retain majority control.
Britain Votes site has a projection of exactly 6 holds, conveniently.
Whilst a hold will be a hold 'with losses' (should it occur), it will be a weapon to deploy against Suella going forward.
Hold 7/8 and they probably outpoll Reform there too........

I think they might end up just short and in minority control though

StillWaters

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

How very convenient for Starmer

wooliedyed

Dopermean said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?

Thats possible, but why select him?

LostPassword

bondegezou said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Would they really ?

Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.

The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.

36607 people were deported in 2025. It would be odd if not a single person were to be deported under a Reform govt! Get real.

So Reform would only need three doublings to reach their annual target. Maybe it wouldn't require ICE-style brutality to achieve, and Reform are leaning into the ICE-style propaganda merely to keep their base happy.

Taz

Ratters said:

Like the Greens with their drug policy (which I support), Reform's policy platform is creating future attack lines against them. Most notable hostages to fortune I can think of are:
1) Attack on worker's rights
2) ICE-style thugs on our streets

With five parties between say ~12% and ~28% (on average), being the most popular party isn't going to be sufficient if you're also the most unpopular party. As I suspect we'll see on Thursday night.

Workers already have rights. They will still have rights if they repeal labours bill.

I think they are right to do it. I believe it counterproductive

What I disagree with is the ban on WFH. Let the market decide, let the employer and employee decide. If it’s private sector.

Reform of public sector pensions is overdue and welcome.

DecrepiterJohnL

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

As predicted by pb but apparently not by Opposition politicians calling for both publication and prosecution.

Taz

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

Most convenient for SKS.

MattW

wooliedyed said:

Dopermean said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?

Thats possible, but why select him?

(conspiracy)

Perhaps it's a la Trump and he wants a rival to lose.

(/conspiracy)

Dopermean

MattW said:

wooliedyed said:

Dopermean said:

wooliedyed said:

Taz said:

wooliedyed said:

MarqueeMark said:

Looking like Reform is testing a floor of 11% for its vote.

At that rate they would be 5th come the next election.

And there would be much embarrassed gazing at expensive shoes about the wibble over Nigel Farage, Prime MInister.

Maybe Farages absence from the by election snd the 'beauty parade' of polished turds is a sign hes bored already and skipping town soon

Or he realises he is an electoral liability in G&D

If the one man band guy is a liablity there they are coming third

Perhaps Farage doesn't want to be too closely associated to Goodwin?

Thats possible, but why select him?

(conspiracy)

Perhaps it's a la Trump and he wants a rival to lose.

(/conspiracy)

Or the vetting was poor, they hadn't picked up the extent of the eugenics stuff, and his eyes are swiveling more by the day?

isam

Brixian59 said:

It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

It shouldn't really be a choice between relentless miserable weather and a conveyer belt of pretend asylum seekers.

If only there were another way

squareroot2

StillWaters said:

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

How very convenient for Starmer

Coukd it be challenged in Court

wooliedyed

For projecting the next GE fans, Baxter has updated the model to the latest MRPs, its producing slightly different type results now (less apocalyptic for Tories notably)

DecrepiterJohnL

Russia buys ‘Trojan horse’ homes near military bases across Europe
Kremlin spies acquiring network of sites designed to launch sabotage campaigns
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/02/23/russian-spies-buy-homes-close-military-sites-europe-kremlin/ (£££)

Selebian

LostPassword said:

bondegezou said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

On topic: many people might like the idea of deporting tens of thousands of foreign criminals, but aren’t so much in favour of what that actually looks like in practice.

Although the practicalities would be easier in the UK than in the in parts of the US, as there’s competing governments with different views on the subject.

Would they really ?

Reform are proposing detention camps for 20,000 plus people, and the deportation of hundreds of thousands every year.
It's a mad policy which is likely to cause as much conflict as in the US. The "practicalities" would be different, but are unlikely to be much easier.
There's a lot less money to chuck at the problem, for a start.

Still, at least they aren't as likely to shoot people.

The practicalities will be different because I doubt a single person will be deported.

There is an entire web of rights, laws and treaties standing in the way and most of those who oversee and adjudicate those will (unwisely for our democracy, in my view) do everything they can to block it.

36607 people were deported in 2025. It would be odd if not a single person were to be deported under a Reform govt! Get real.

So Reform would only need three doublings to reach their annual target. Maybe it wouldn't require ICE-style brutality to achieve, and Reform are leaning into the ICE-style propaganda merely to keep their base happy.

Can be done far easier than that. Give the deportees a plane ticket back to UK and a nice wedge of cash (payable on third deportation) and you can triple the numbers in no time

LostPassword

isam said:

Brixian59 said:

It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

It shouldn't really be a choice between relentless miserable weather and a conveyer belt of pretend asylum seekers.

If only there were another way

If Starmer turned out to be a techno-wizard genius with the power to control the weather, such that when he said he was going to, "smash the gangs," the unspoken part was that he was going to, "smash the gangs with my awesome control of Atlantic depressions," it would be kinda ironic if he lost the next general election anyway because of the feel-bad factor of relentless bad weather.

MarqueeMark

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Russia buys ‘Trojan horse’ homes near military bases across Europe
Kremlin spies acquiring network of sites designed to launch sabotage campaigns
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/02/23/russian-spies-buy-homes-close-military-sites-europe-kremlin/ (£££)

Be a shame if there were a series of "gas explosions" in those properties...

StillWaters

squareroot2 said:

StillWaters said:

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/Steven_Swinford/status/2026208884981969046

Two of the key documents held by the government on Lord Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador will not be made public until after the police investigation and any criminal trial has concluded

It means it will be months or even possibly years before they see the light of day

That includes the Cabinet Office due diligence report given to Keir Starmer prior to Mandelson’s appointment as US ambassador

The three questions Starmer put to Mandelson and his responses will also be withheld. Starmer told the Commons that these provide evidence that Mandelson misled him

How very convenient for Starmer

Coukd it be challenged in Court

Doubt it. I don’t think a Humble Address has legal force

Selebian

isam said:

Brixian59 said:

It strikes me that Reform and their propaganda wings at GB News, Mail, Express are utterly desperate for a week of calm weather so that their live cameras in France and Dover can spread the news of INVASION and whip the delinquent bone heads in to a renewed state of frenzy

This bad weather that is after all by far the biggest factor in figures must be so fucking annoying for them

6 more months of force 5 and above would be brilliant news.

It shouldn't really be a choice between relentless miserable weather and a conveyer belt of pretend asylum seekers.

If only there were another way

We only need shirty weather in the south (indeed, really only on the french north coast).

Fog in the channel, continent cut off...

FeersumEnjineeya

Leon said:

There’s a much cleverer, more humane way of doing all this, without creating a British ICE, throwing grannies over the cliffs of Dover

You just make cultural changes. Let’s say you wanted to limit the number of very conservative Muslims living or arriving in Britain (a position likely supported by the majority of Brits)

Ban halal slaughter. Prohibit sharia courts. Ban cousin marriage. Ban the burqa and niqab. License all imams and mosques. Fiercely prosecute FGM. Likewise honour crimes. Close down madrasas. And so on and so forth

These are all morally defensible positions - indeed many of them are already law in many countries. If you do all that the most conservative Muslims will emigrate leaving behind the nice secular ones more amenable to western ways of living

Job done. No guns needed. No distressing scenes of forced deportation

If halal slaughter is to be banned, then kosher slaughter should should certainly also be banned. They are both cruel methods, but kosher slaughter is distinctly worse since it forbids stunning before the animal's throat is cut whereas halal slaughter usually permits stunning.