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Is this confidence or hubris from Starmer? – politicalbetting.com

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  • isamisam Posts: 43,691
    edited February 23
    Good Morning Britain viewers have enjoyed many a storm-off over the years, but on Monday morning they were treated to what must surely have been the show’s first storm-in. When you’re watching Kemi Badenoch doing her best to launch her new student debt policy with Ed Balls and Susanna Reid, you just don’t expect human voucher code Martin Lewis to explode in from the locker room area like Ric Flair at Wrestlemania VIII.

    It was so sudden there wasn’t even time to play his entrance music (Price Tag by Jessie J, obviously). He just appeared, apparently midway through one of his own sentences, like a man sitting at home shouting at the TV had somehow suddenly appeared on it.

    […]

    When the two of them were out of the ring, they were straight on their phones. After the broadcast, Lewis went on social media to apologise to Badenoch for, he said, “gate-crashing your interview”, before, in his next sentence, reverting to his trademark certainty that he was right. There’s already talk of a rematch, with Badenoch having invited herself on to Lewis’s show to discuss the subject further.

    Beneath the shock of the moment, a valuable piece of public service broadcasting had taken place by accident. In an increasingly secular country, the idea that Martin Lewis might be wrong is as close as it gets to heresy. The nation’s most perfectly self-polished halo has lost just a fraction of its lustre.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/0788fc52-82f6-47d7-ba02-5ce53399fd13?shareToken=a76a56a8bf9c3a042b0452418c81de6a
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746
    Taz said:

    isam said:

    We must be mad

    This is diabolical

    Valdo Calocane was not sectioned following a violent psychotic attack because mental health workers had considered the “over representation of young black men in custody.”

    He went on to kill three people

    Decisions should NEVER be made on this basis



    https://x.com/cphilpofficial/status/2025909993015308594?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    You’re right.

    He’s right. But he was in the govt when this happened. These decisions and these mindsets were prevalent under Tory rule.
    Chris Philp

    The gaffe that keeps giving.

  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,797

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2026046644890771573

    Trump says reports that the Pentagon is warning him against attacking Iran are "100% incorrect," and if the U.S. military goes to war with Iran "it will be something easily won."

    So what is the coward waiting for then?
    Presumably Trump has tasked the Pentagon with a copycat operation to capture Khamenei and they in turn have tasked a poor sap to explain to him in capitalised monosyllables that Venezuela and Eye-Rann are different places.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,389
    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Boom

    ‘ BREAKING: IBM stock, $IBM, falls over -10% after Anthropic announces that Claude can streamline COBOL code.

    It’s becoming increasingly clear how pivotal the times we are in right now truly are.’

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2026018343833026834?s=61

    What does "streamline" mean?
    Convert it to something readable by programmers aged under 60, I'm assuming. I'm sure Anthropic is correct and Claude can convert the code, but the reason old COBOL programmers get paid big bucks is because the systems using that code are critical systems dating back to the 60s that nobody messes with - bank transaction processing, health records, airline bookings, etc. They can't be permitted to fail and are full of quirks and legacy architectures that trip up anyone who isn't experienced with them.

    Nobody with a brain cell is letting an AI loose on stuff like that. At the very least you still need experienced COBOL programmers to validate the output, set up testbenches and run isolated functional tests.
    The difficult part of software engineering has never been programming. That's the bit people are actually good at and enjoy doing. Requirements analysis, specification, documentation, testing, and maintenance are the killers.

    I've got this horrible feeling that it's only a matter of time until something really important is vibe coded into something that no person understands, with disasterous conseqeunces in the long term.
    The willingness to break things and mess up can be useful sometimes, but the people keenest to do that sort of thing don't seem to have any consideration of certain things being too important to break.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,784

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2026046644890771573

    Trump says reports that the Pentagon is warning him against attacking Iran are "100% incorrect," and if the U.S. military goes to war with Iran "it will be something easily won."

    They easily won in Iraq...
  • Taz said:

    isam said:

    We must be mad

    This is diabolical

    Valdo Calocane was not sectioned following a violent psychotic attack because mental health workers had considered the “over representation of young black men in custody.”

    He went on to kill three people

    Decisions should NEVER be made on this basis



    https://x.com/cphilpofficial/status/2025909993015308594?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    You’re right.

    He’s right. But he was in the govt when this happened. These decisions and these mindsets were prevalent under Tory rule.

    Decisions that do not reference systemic racism issues are systemically racist.

    You can’t always win. Awful for the decision makers and utterly catastrophic for the families.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,086
    ydoethur said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2026046644890771573

    Trump says reports that the Pentagon is warning him against attacking Iran are "100% incorrect," and if the U.S. military goes to war with Iran "it will be something easily won."

    They easily won in Iraq...
    Now where did I put that "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner.....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,731
    edited February 23
    AnneJGP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ohnotnow said:

    AnneJGP said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Boom

    ‘ BREAKING: IBM stock, $IBM, falls over -10% after Anthropic announces that Claude can streamline COBOL code.

    It’s becoming increasingly clear how pivotal the times we are in right now truly are.’

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2026018343833026834?s=61

    What does "streamline" mean?
    I assume it means "convert it to another programming language"
    Hmm. If it can convert, say, Cobol code on an IBM3090 or VAX straight to, say, C++ on a mini or Python on a server in the cloud, then all the old mainframes go overnight. Yay!...

    ...but. Are there really any of those old big white/blue boxes left? Y2K was a quarter of a century ago, and COVID was six years ago, and everybody who knows how to run them are retired. IBM hasn't done mainframes for decades. Yes I know about legacy systems and old infrastructure bods and life insurers with century-long databases and drug cartels running old unhackable boxes in the jungle, but it's industrial archaeology at this point. What's the market?

    Am I being stupid? I'd love a convert-cobol-to-python contract - six figures here I come - but it's not going to happen.
    I retired nearly 20 years ago, I was never a high-flying software engineer compared to many, but when I had my first brush with maintaining Cobol having only 4 or 5 other languages and no previous encounter with Cobol, it was a doddle to debug (where the Cobol people couldn't). That wouldn't always be the case of course but it does show that converting a coder to Cobol isn't necessarily a big challenge.
    I quite liked reading Cobol - but hated writing it. Almost the direct opposite to my time as a Perl programmer.
    Perl has been described, in a parody of a famous remark about lex(1), as the Swiss-Army chainsaw of Unix programming. Though Perl is very useful, it would be a stretch to describe it as pretty or elegant;

    http://catb.org/jargon/html/P/Perl.html

    I saw a post recently that more or less described the death of programming as an art to the fact that almost nobody uses LISP anymore
    Outsider question:

    How much of the problem is that there's less need to be artful now, because it's easier to brute force things with more cheap memory and cheap/fast processing?

    (I've got to work out how to teach numerical integration to some engineering students soon, and I've concluded that there's no point going beyond the trapezium rule. Sure, there are more elegant things, but if they want better results, it's easier to just add more rows to the spreadsheet.)
    Good code is reusable, modular and maintainable. 99% of code doesn't need bleeding edge optimisation in performance, memory usage or the rest.
    Thanks to everyone for the nostalgic trip down memory lane.
    We haven't talked about JCL decks yet! 😄
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    May we live in interesting times.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,086
    So are the cartel wars in Mexico going to prevent them from hosting World Cup games?

    Just bring it back to Europe this year, eh?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,730

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2026046644890771573

    Trump says reports that the Pentagon is warning him against attacking Iran are "100% incorrect," and if the U.S. military goes to war with Iran "it will be something easily won."

    So what is the coward waiting for then?
    Presumably Trump has tasked the Pentagon with a copycat operation to capture Khamenei and they in turn have tasked a poor sap to explain to him in capitalised monosyllables that Venezuela and Eye-Rann are different places.
    I think it’s more so that if it goes badly, he can say, “We should have never been in Iran. The Department of War is incompetent. Who put the idiot Hegseth in charge?”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,549
    Trump was recorded on a phone call to the winning US men's ice hockey team saying he would also need to invite the winning US women's team to the Whitehouse

    The women have told him to fuck off

    Now Flavor Flav (who was in Cortina) has invited the women to Vegas instead
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,792
    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Boom

    ‘ BREAKING: IBM stock, $IBM, falls over -10% after Anthropic announces that Claude can streamline COBOL code.

    It’s becoming increasingly clear how pivotal the times we are in right now truly are.’

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2026018343833026834?s=61

    What does "streamline" mean?
    Convert it to something readable by programmers aged under 60, I'm assuming. I'm sure Anthropic is correct and Claude can convert the code, but the reason old COBOL programmers get paid big bucks is because the systems using that code are critical systems dating back to the 60s that nobody messes with - bank transaction processing, health records, airline bookings, etc. They can't be permitted to fail and are full of quirks and legacy architectures that trip up anyone who isn't experienced with them.

    Nobody with a brain cell is letting an AI loose on stuff like that. At the very least you still need experienced COBOL programmers to validate the output, set up testbenches and run isolated functional tests.
    The difficult part of software engineering has never been programming. That's the bit people are actually good at and enjoy doing. Requirements analysis, specification, documentation, testing, and maintenance are the killers.

    I've got this horrible feeling that it's only a matter of time until something really important is vibe coded into something that no person understands, with disasterous conseqeunces in the long term.
    In my experience, it was the developmental programming part that was most highly valued, however.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,691
    edited February 23
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    We must be mad

    This is diabolical

    Valdo Calocane was not sectioned following a violent psychotic attack because mental health workers had considered the “over representation of young black men in custody.”

    He went on to kill three people

    Decisions should NEVER be made on this basis



    https://x.com/cphilpofficial/status/2025909993015308594?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    You’re right.

    He’s right. But he was in the govt when this happened. These decisions and these mindsets were prevalent under Tory rule.
    Chris Philp

    The gaffe that keeps giving.

    The gaffe is creating an environment where severely mentally ill people are not sectioned due to sensitivities about their race, in this case allowing one of them to murder three people

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    We must be mad

    This is diabolical

    Valdo Calocane was not sectioned following a violent psychotic attack because mental health workers had considered the “over representation of young black men in custody.”

    He went on to kill three people

    Decisions should NEVER be made on this basis



    https://x.com/cphilpofficial/status/2025909993015308594?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    You’re right.

    He’s right. But he was in the govt when this happened. These decisions and these mindsets were prevalent under Tory rule.
    Chris Philp

    The gaffe that keeps giving.

    Why is this a gaffe?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,427
    Just discovered Mat Sadler is manager of Walsall aka the Saddlers.
    I know Wolfgang Wolf once managed Wolfsburg.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,691
    edited February 23
    Kemi is trying to show the Conservatives are a team rather than just a leader with no one backing them up. She increasingly shares the spotlight and mentions her collesgues. This must be to draw a line in the sand with Reform I think

    It was refreshing on GMB to see her accept Lewis May have a point and offer to discuss it with him, rather than trot out rehearsed line in order to block him out. I hope she does well. Good to see her sticking to her guns on the two child cap

    Lifting the two-child benefit cap is as unfair as it is unaffordable.
     
    @Helen_Whately is leading the fight for the @Conservatives against Labour on this.

    We back work, responsibility and a welfare system that’s a safety net, not a way of life.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2026047987059740712?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • glwglw Posts: 10,760
    AnneJGP said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Boom

    ‘ BREAKING: IBM stock, $IBM, falls over -10% after Anthropic announces that Claude can streamline COBOL code.

    It’s becoming increasingly clear how pivotal the times we are in right now truly are.’

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2026018343833026834?s=61

    What does "streamline" mean?
    Convert it to something readable by programmers aged under 60, I'm assuming. I'm sure Anthropic is correct and Claude can convert the code, but the reason old COBOL programmers get paid big bucks is because the systems using that code are critical systems dating back to the 60s that nobody messes with - bank transaction processing, health records, airline bookings, etc. They can't be permitted to fail and are full of quirks and legacy architectures that trip up anyone who isn't experienced with them.

    Nobody with a brain cell is letting an AI loose on stuff like that. At the very least you still need experienced COBOL programmers to validate the output, set up testbenches and run isolated functional tests.
    The difficult part of software engineering has never been programming. That's the bit people are actually good at and enjoy doing. Requirements analysis, specification, documentation, testing, and maintenance are the killers.

    I've got this horrible feeling that it's only a matter of time until something really important is vibe coded into something that no person understands, with disasterous conseqeunces in the long term.
    In my experience, it was the developmental programming part that was most highly valued, however.
    Yes, businesses value making something more than they do designing it, or making sure that it works correctly, or maintaining it. That's probably similary true for a whole lot of different fields. The programming is seen as creating value, and all that other stuff is cost that is best minimised.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,691
    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered Mat Sadler is manager of Walsall aka the Saddlers.
    I know Wolfgang Wolf once managed Wolfsburg.

    I loved that. It must have subconsciously helped him get the job

    Not enough made of Arsene at Arsenal or Mancini at Man City for me
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,549
    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,210
    DavidL said:

    A really difficult day. Got a copy of a Victim Impact Statement by a 17 year old who was raped at 14 by a fucking monster. Her life has been destroyed by something so horrific it is hard to come to come to terms with. The statement said nice things about me and my contributions to the conviction but FFS, the evidence is that this 14 year old child had almost no help whatsoever.

    I honestly feel sick, Our society is sick. We have really weird priorities. WFA or care for children like this? I mean, how do we even have to ask the question? Some more wine is called for.

    A powerful post. I came across this by an American commentator on why the Democrats lost and will probably lose again because they can't see the immorality of one of their leading lights signing bombs aimed at Gaza whatever the race of the children being bombed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn7BItMVBFk
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    When's the last time anyone was charged with treason in the UK? Lord Haw-Haw maybe.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,427
    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
  • dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Reform in freefall - see graph I posted upthread.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,287
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Hodges says Farage is simply making mistakes one after the other at the moment.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,118

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Hodges says Farage is simply making mistakes one after the other at the moment.

    Well, if Hodge says it.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,797
    A modest contribution to the events of the day:


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,570
    edited February 23
    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I don't think any of this old shite will register until the NHS is sold to Cedars Sinae Healthcare for a dollar and all employments rights and Trade Unions are swept away. Proof turkeys vote for Christmas. Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone, they paved paradise, and put up a parking lot.

    Still, it's probably all worth it to demonstrate some performative cruelty to darker toned people than me. Today's exclusive that ICE is coming to Blighty should do the trick.

    P.S. The Chagos stunt went well I see.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 177
    A Labour win in Gorton and Denton is of course the best possible result for Labour, though the caveat would be that that those who think Starmer is a barrier to electoral success will have a slightly harder time making their case - so potentially bad news for those in the cabinet who want rid of him.

    A Reform win would be the next best result for Labour - it would reinforce Reform's self-declared status as 'actual opposition', and Farage, Goodwin et al are much more compelling bogeymen for your average Labour activist/voter than the likes of Badenoch, Stride and Cleverly. If the next general election is between Labour and Reform, then Labour will probably remain in government.

    A Green win would be the worst possible result (of the three plausible outcomes) for Labour as it would paint the Greens as a viable alternative, a Reform of the left. Labour may feel, in response, that the key to success is to behave more like the Greens - and this would make Labour less likely to win the plurality of the vote in the next general election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,389

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Hodges says Farage is simply making mistakes one after the other at the moment.

    Well, if Hodge says it.
    He said Ed M was crap every day for five years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,389
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    I guess it was felt they were at a tipping point where they were almost ready to replace the Tories in the public mind, and so the benefits of having 'experienced' people on board (plus just the benefit of having known individuals defect from the Tories, making them look weak) outweighed the risk of it making them look, well, just like every one else.

    They are still going to easily beat the Tories at the next set of elections, so I guess it makes sense, but it still feels a bit unnecessary.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,389
    LDLF said:

    A Labour win in Gorton and Denton is of course the best possible result for Labour, though the caveat would be that that those who think Starmer is a barrier to electoral success will have a slightly harder time making their case - so potentially bad news for those in the cabinet who want rid of him.

    A Reform win would be the next best result for Labour - it would reinforce Reform's self-declared status as 'actual opposition', and Farage, Goodwin et al are much more compelling bogeymen for your average Labour activist/voter than the likes of Badenoch, Stride and Cleverly. If the next general election is between Labour and Reform, then Labour will probably remain in government.

    A Green win would be the worst possible result (of the three plausible outcomes) for Labour as it would paint the Greens as a viable alternative, a Reform of the left. Labour may feel, in response, that the key to success is to behave more like the Greens - and this would make Labour less likely to win the plurality of the vote in the next general election.

    Agreed, they'd much rather lose to Reform.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,570

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Hodges says Farage is simply making mistakes one after the other at the moment.

    Well, if Hodge says it.
    "Hodges". Like ARP Warden Hodges in Dad's Army.

    We were all eulogising his transformation from New Labour fanboi to Daily Mail truthsayer yesterday and trying to get one of our lefty number booted off site (we'll get rid of them all one day!) for an unfortunate comment on Hodges longstanding eye injury.
  • dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Possibility one: Becoming a Thatcherite tribute act has always been the plan, and Red Wallers who hoped for a stern nanny state party have been bamboozled.

    Possibly two: We're at the "Springtime for Hitler" stage of The Producers, with Nigel trying increasingly desperately to not be top of the polls.

    Possibility three: Zia, Robert, Suella and the rest of them aren't as good at the populism/opposition game as Nigel. They think they should be launching loads of policies, even though they're stupid and unworkable.

    Yes, his opponents and enemies have been asking him for ages- what are your actual policies, Nigel? But that doesn't mean he should give them what they want. If anything, he should do the opposite.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,570
    edited February 23
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Hodges says Farage is simply making mistakes one after the other at the moment.

    Well, if Hodge says it.
    He said Ed M was crap every day for five years.
    The notion of a stopped clock applies (twice every day for five years).
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,007
    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,570
    Andy_JS said:

    When's the last time anyone was charged with treason in the UK? Lord Haw-Haw maybe.

    That fellow that tried to shoot the Queen with a crossbow on the instruction of his AI girlfriend in 2021. There was a programme with Hannah Fry on about him earlier this evening on BBC2.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,570
    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 26,038
    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    It's the Equality Act - not Equalities. No wonder there's been so much misinformation about it when people can't even get its name right.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,007

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,427
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    And a golliwog on every jam jar.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,007
    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    And a golliwog on every jam jar.
    Soon women will get sectioned for not obeying their husbands or popping out enough white babies ! Talking out of turn at dinner parties will also be frowned upon !

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 26,038
    edited February 23
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,034

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    I really can't understand the strategy.
    Things were going swimmingly well for Farage. A massive poll lead just by carping on about stuff.
    Suddenly, he decides he needs lots of Tory retreads a shadow Cabinet and policies. Why?
    He's never needed any of that before.
    Possibility one: Becoming a Thatcherite tribute act has always been the plan, and Red Wallers who hoped for a stern nanny state party have been bamboozled.

    Possibly two: We're at the "Springtime for Hitler" stage of The Producers, with Nigel trying increasingly desperately to not be top of the polls.

    Possibility three: Zia, Robert, Suella and the rest of them aren't as good at the populism/opposition game as Nigel. They think they should be launching loads of policies, even though they're stupid and unworkable.

    Yes, his opponents and enemies have been asking him for ages- what are your actual policies, Nigel? But that doesn't mean he should give them what they want. If anything, he should do the opposite.
    Not giving policies should have a good British name when Reform are doing it.

    I suggest the Armitage Shanks Sanitary Ware strategy, don't break it, keep the shit inside.

    None of that poncey foreign Ming Vase muck for Reform.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,832
    nico67 said:

    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    And a golliwog on every jam jar.
    Soon women will get sectioned for not obeying their husbands or popping out enough white babies ! Talking out of turn at dinner parties will also be frowned upon !

    My father in law worked at (insert dinosaur business here) and when they had a round of redundancies they got rid of all the married women first.

    After all, surely their husbands would provide for them...

    At least women were allowed to work, which might still be too much for some.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,731
    Bobby Davro on Prince Andrew: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SzybD0sbwnY
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,427
    You've got to hand it to Galloway.
    He does invective like no other. Such elan.

    https://www.facebook.com/100044531825467/posts/1450143323146715/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,529
    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    Because one is about free choice and the other is state compulsion.

    If granny chooses to end her own life, then that is her choice. You don't like it, clearly, but you should show her some respect and let her make her own choice.

    The state killing people against their will is an entirely different kettle of fish.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    Ever heard of the Reform UK Curry Club of Kettering?

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/1716303/thread
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,210
    dixiedean said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    And a golliwog on every jam jar.
    I think Farage has reached his peak which is three years too early. It feels like he's deflating in front of our eyes. The most interesting question is who will be Labour's opposition at the next election. Could it be the Tories again?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,832
    edited 12:18AM

    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    Because one is about free choice and the other is state compulsion.

    If granny chooses to end her own life, then that is her choice. You don't like it, clearly, but you should show her some respect and let her make her own choice.

    The state killing people against their will is an entirely different kettle of fish.
    In principle it is granny's choice. In practice? I'm not convinced every family out there will be acting in her best interests.

    I'm not keen on prolonging agony either but a lot of people are (in general) not great.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746
    isam said:

    Kemi is trying to show the Conservatives are a team rather than just a leader with no one backing them up. She increasingly shares the spotlight and mentions her collesgues. This must be to draw a line in the sand with Reform I think

    It was refreshing on GMB to see her accept Lewis May have a point and offer to discuss it with him, rather than trot out rehearsed line in order to block him out. I hope she does well. Good to see her sticking to her guns on the two child cap

    Lifting the two-child benefit cap is as unfair as it is unaffordable.
     
    @Helen_Whately is leading the fight for the @Conservatives against Labour on this.

    We back work, responsibility and a welfare system that’s a safety net, not a way of life.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2026047987059740712?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If the answer is Helen Whataley you really are in deep deep shit
  • isamisam Posts: 43,691
    Brixian59 said:

    isam said:

    Kemi is trying to show the Conservatives are a team rather than just a leader with no one backing them up. She increasingly shares the spotlight and mentions her collesgues. This must be to draw a line in the sand with Reform I think

    It was refreshing on GMB to see her accept Lewis May have a point and offer to discuss it with him, rather than trot out rehearsed line in order to block him out. I hope she does well. Good to see her sticking to her guns on the two child cap

    Lifting the two-child benefit cap is as unfair as it is unaffordable.
     
    @Helen_Whately is leading the fight for the @Conservatives against Labour on this.

    We back work, responsibility and a welfare system that’s a safety net, not a way of life.

    https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/2026047987059740712?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    If the answer is Helen Whataley you really are in deep deep shit
    tim o’clock!
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746
    dixiedean said:

    Just discovered Mat Sadler is manager of Walsall aka the Saddlers.
    I know Wolfgang Wolf once managed Wolfsburg.

    Mat Sandler was something of a teenage prodigy.

    Captain of various England age group teams up to 18 and made fistvteam debut at 16.

    A succession of injuries ruined his senior playing career but he had thrived as a Coach
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,427
    edited 12:25AM

    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    Because one is about free choice and the other is state compulsion.

    If granny chooses to end her own life, then that is her choice. You don't like it, clearly, but you should show her some respect and let her make her own choice.

    The state killing people against their will is an entirely different kettle of fish.
    In principle it is granny's choice. In practice? I'm not convinced every family out there will be acting in her best interests.

    I'm not keen on prolonging agony either but a lot of people are (in general) not great.
    Which is why we need compulsory living wills.
    Personally I'd like to be euthanised if I lose my mind to dementia.
    I'm not sure quite why other people's Catholicism, feelz or opinion ought to carry any weight whatsoever on that.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,007
    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    These really are two separate issues and I think it’s wrong to conflate them .

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,832
    edited 12:43AM
    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    Because one is about free choice and the other is state compulsion.

    If granny chooses to end her own life, then that is her choice. You don't like it, clearly, but you should show her some respect and let her make her own choice.

    The state killing people against their will is an entirely different kettle of fish.
    In principle it is granny's choice. In practice? I'm not convinced every family out there will be acting in her best interests.

    I'm not keen on prolonging agony either but a lot of people are (in general) not great.
    Which is why we need compulsory living wills.
    Personally I'd like to be euthanised if I lose my mind to dementia.
    I'm not sure quite why other people's Catholicism, feelz or opinion ought to carry any weight whatsoever on that.
    My mother in law told us as much when she was able but continues to suffer and is no longer able to communicate except in the style of a 1 year old.

    It is tempting to put her in a home as they'd probably kill her off quite quickly but deliberate maltreatment doesn't really seem like the humane option.

    So I'm all for it in principle.

    But I do think Cyclefree has a point, unfortunately.

    The question is I suppose what we are prepared to accept as collateral damage, either way.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    "AI will not save us
    In fact, it’s probably going to make our lives much, much worse

    By Séamas O'Reilly"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2026/02/ai-will-not-save-us
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,730
    Is Mandelson being held overnight?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,356
    edited 1:04AM

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    Because one is about free choice and the other is state compulsion.

    If granny chooses to end her own life, then that is her choice. You don't like it, clearly, but you should show her some respect and let her make her own choice.

    The state killing people against their will is an entirely different kettle of fish.
    In principle it is granny's choice. In practice? I'm not convinced every family out there will be acting in her best interests.

    I'm not keen on prolonging agony either but a lot of people are (in general) not great.
    Which is why we need compulsory living wills.
    Personally I'd like to be euthanised if I lose my mind to dementia.
    I'm not sure quite why other people's Catholicism, feelz or opinion ought to carry any weight whatsoever on that.
    My mother in law told us as much when she was able but continues to suffer and is no longer able to communicate except in the style of a 1 year old.

    It is tempting to put her in a home as they'd probably kill her off quite quickly but deliberate maltreatment doesn't really seem like the humane option.

    So I'm all for it in principle.

    But I do think Cyclefree has a point, unfortunately.

    The question is I suppose what we are prepared to accept as collateral damage, either way.
    I had a grandparent who spent their last years bedridden with dementia and osteoporosis, incommunicative, in pain and desperate for death, on the other side a grandparents' sibling, a brilliant intellect lost to dementia, and now a parent, who'd clearly expressed a wish for euthanasia, who cannot hold a conversation, read a book or follow a story, sleeping 14-16 hours a day, pacing the corridors at night, physically fit but their brain slowly dying, living out their last years anxious, frightened and in utter boredom.
    If it happens to me I'd like to end it while I can still bid my farewells to friends and family.
    Why should someone else's personal religious or misplaced morality deny me, or have denied them, that choice and dignity?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,613
    DavidL said:

    A really difficult day. Got a copy of a Victim Impact Statement by a 17 year old who was raped at 14 by a fucking monster. Her life has been destroyed by something so horrific it is hard to come to come to terms with. The statement said nice things about me and my contributions to the conviction but FFS, the evidence is that this 14 year old child had almost no help whatsoever.

    I honestly feel sick, Our society is sick. We have really weird priorities. WFA or care for children like this? I mean, how do we even have to ask the question? Some more wine is called for.

    On that score, this article will not improve your mood.

    I am a 15-year-old girl. Let me show you the vile misogyny that confronts me on social media every day
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/23/15-year-old-girl-misogyny-social-media-online-abuse

    If that is at all representative of girls' experience, then we have an even bigger problem with social media (and growing misogyny) than we thought.



  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,728
    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    That's because that little lot between it is:
    - making it impossible to do anything that will actually let us stop the boats
    - about to destroy the entire rental market, and make obtaining a new tenancy completely impossible
    - about to destroy the job market, particularly for people with dubious employment histories
    - allowing virtually anything to be delayed indefinitely by judicial review, thus making doing almost anything of any value impossible.

    It's all got lofty sounding titles and good intentions, but the harsh reality is that it all needs to go for the country to become governable again. Reform are bang on the money here, it's all got to go.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,529
    Dopermean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @politicsuk.com‬

    🚨 NEW: Richard Tice will announce Reform UK's plans to introduce a "Great Repeal Bill" tomorrow that will scrap Labour's Employment Rights' Act and rent reforms

    @jamesrball.com‬

    This is the single best piece of news Keir Starmer has had since July 2024.

    Too late to effect the by-election but seriously they want to get rid of the Equalities Act , remove us from the ECHR and now rip up the Employment Rights Act together with the rent reforms .

    One wonders what will be next .
    Hanging, flogging and the revival of half-timbered cars.
    I expect capital punishment to make an entrance soon . The next lever to pull to appease the baying mob.
    With those pushing Assisted Dying having undermined the arguments against capital punishment. After all, if a few grannies coerced into killing themselves is a price worth paying to give others choice, why should society worry about innocent people being hanged if that's what's needed to punish the guilty?
    Because one is about free choice and the other is state compulsion.

    If granny chooses to end her own life, then that is her choice. You don't like it, clearly, but you should show her some respect and let her make her own choice.

    The state killing people against their will is an entirely different kettle of fish.
    In principle it is granny's choice. In practice? I'm not convinced every family out there will be acting in her best interests.

    I'm not keen on prolonging agony either but a lot of people are (in general) not great.
    Which is why we need compulsory living wills.
    Personally I'd like to be euthanised if I lose my mind to dementia.
    I'm not sure quite why other people's Catholicism, feelz or opinion ought to carry any weight whatsoever on that.
    My mother in law told us as much when she was able but continues to suffer and is no longer able to communicate except in the style of a 1 year old.

    It is tempting to put her in a home as they'd probably kill her off quite quickly but deliberate maltreatment doesn't really seem like the humane option.

    So I'm all for it in principle.

    But I do think Cyclefree has a point, unfortunately.

    The question is I suppose what we are prepared to accept as collateral damage, either way.
    I had a grandparent who spent their last years bedridden with dementia and osteoporosis, incommunicative, in pain and desperate for death, on the other side a grandparents' sibling, a brilliant intellect lost to dementia, and now a parent, who'd clearly expressed a wish for euthanasia, who cannot hold a conversation, read a book or follow a story, sleeping 14-16 hours a day, pacing the corridors at night, physically fit but their brain slowly dying, living out their last years anxious, frightened and in utter boredom.
    If it happens to me I'd like to end it while I can still bid my farewells to friends and family.
    Why should someone else's personal religious or misplaced morality deny me, or have denied them, that choice and dignity?
    Bingo.

    Dementia is a rotten, wretched disease and it robs people of agency and ability to make decisions once they have it.

    Which is why we should absolutely have living wills which are respected.

    If Cyclefree wants to sign a living will saying that she opposes assisted dying and would not want it under any circumstances, that should be her prerogative and it should be respected.

    If you or I want to sign a living will saying we would rather die than live bedridden with dementia, then if the worst should happen we should have our choices respected.

    Death is not the worst that can happen.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,328
    Assisted dying is a little bit like drugs, prostitution, abortion, and gambling.

    It's something that it would probably be best if it didn't exist. But given it's going to exist -in one way or another- is it better to have it legal and regulated, or is it better to go down the moral route, and simply ban it?

    Right now, like with much 'soft' drugs, we settle for this pseduo decriminalisation - we basically don't enforce the law as far as assisted dying. No one is prosecuted for helping a friend head of to Switzerland for a one way trip to Dignitas. There is a blind eye turned to allowing morphine doses to euthanize those in severe pain and near end of life.

    We would be much better being honest: is this something we find acceptable, and we seek to mitigate risks as much as possible? Or is it so morally repugnant that it should be illegal. And if it is illegal, we need to enforce the law.

    I am in the former camp. Having seen my mother struggle terribly with dementia, I would never want to go through that. She is unhappier than she has ever been in her life. But she is also way beyond a point where she could make a decision about ending it. I would rather leave life on my own terms than be reduced to the shell she is.

    Other people may have different views, of course.

    But right now, the reality is that assisted dying is legal for me. Because I have the means to head to Switzerland should I desire it. It is grossly unfair that we allow the well off to make these decisions for themselves, and not those of lesser means.
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