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Is this confidence or hubris from Starmer? – politicalbetting.com

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  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,566
    Brixian59 said:

    https://x.com/i/status/2024794378544242735

    Mandelson Scandal was already by far the most negative factor on Labour (albeit fractionally behind Winter Fuel in cut through)

    I'm sure it'll be fine guys ;)

    It's factored in duffer

    It's now sub judice

    Likely Andrew Mount batten Windsor and Mandelson investigations will be linked and run similar course.

    It's clear Andrew told Epstein, Epstein is the key global figure with Andrew.

    Mandelson is a pawn to the 2 main players.
    It will be harder for the Americans to hide the evidence if it in the hands of the UK legal system.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,246
    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Thats a bit daft. If they win in G and D they will have 5 MP's, so decriminalisation along Portuguese lines as the Greens propose is not going to happen.

    I am no fan of legalisation, but decriminalisation and a public health approach is probably better than the status quo.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,276
    Brixian59 said:

    https://x.com/i/status/2024794378544242735

    Mandelson Scandal was already by far the most negative factor on Labour (albeit fractionally behind Winter Fuel in cut through)

    I'm sure it'll be fine guys ;)

    It's factored in duffer

    It's now sub judice

    Likely Andrew Mount batten Windsor and Mandelson investigations will be linked and run similar course.

    It's clear Andrew told Epstein, Epstein is the key global figure with Andrew.

    Mandelson is a pawn to the 2 main players.
    There are plenty of wealthy people in the Epstein files who were likely even more involved than Andrew and Mandelson, especially in the USA
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,276

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    ny
    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Hoping Mandy sings like a canary, and then Blair is in the nick in short order.
    Is Blair even in the Epstein files? Trump and Clinton definitely are but no evidence he is
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 874
    So that is 3 Brits arrested over Epstein - Randy, Andy & Mandy... and no Americans...
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,471
    "We don’t do open days around the trident warhead or open house for the SAS either"

    BUT...they totally should. Imagine at parliamentary recess, the whole lot just decamps to a random military base for a tour or an inspection or such-like, with the press tagging along. Hilarity ensues!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531

    At least Starmer didnt do something really stupid like tie himself to a by election result the day a central figure in the Labour movenent was arrested

    Calm down, have you forgotten the Eastleigh by-election of 2013 or my all time favourite one, the 2006 Dunfermline and West Fife by-election which the the Lib Dems won despite their leader having to resign for being an alcoholic, one contender had to quit after he admitted to shitting on rent boys, another Simon Hughes, the straight choice chap, came out as bi.
    Alright Michael Winner, spoiling my fun
    Imagine the scenes if Labour do win on Thursday.
    If they do, I'm going to the poor house.

    Got a horrible sinking feeling the Greens could just miss out.
    If the Greens prove unable to win a by-election (albeit not in the most ideal territory for them, but still) then you'd have to question whether they'll make it into double figures in terms of MPs at the next election.

    It would show that their potential voters are too easily persuaded to vote tactically for Labour, and lack confidence in the Greens breaking through.

    It would be a massive boost for Labour to stop the Greens from winning.
  • I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,118
    Brixian59 said:

    Former UK Ambassador to the US and Donald Trump arrested

    Just think what this says for our international relationships

    Sam Coates on Sky reporting there will be dozens of labour mps again with their head in their hands asking why Keir Starmer ignored all of the warning signals, whether or not there is one rule for some and another for others when it comes to appointing Mandelson, also when it comes to his judgement and how he didn't spot the pitfalls of the Mandelson appointment when he made it, despite all the warnings in December 2024

    Anything to deflect from an outstanding performance from Bridget Phillipson today.

    Seeking to resolve the Tory SEND mess
    :lol:
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,566
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    ny
    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Hoping Mandy sings like a canary, and then Blair is in the nick in short order.
    Is Blair even in the Epstein files? Trump and Clinton definitely are but no evidence he is
    Blair is more likely to be implicated in shenanigans relating to the Middle East, which Mandelson is also likely to be involved in.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746
    Aside from the person and people involved, it is an unusual time to make an arrest.

    One can only assume it's been prearranged possibly at the request if his legal team to ensure they were available to him.

    The Police will want maximum time and not wait from 9 or 10an for 8 or 9 hours for his representatives to arrive.

    Expect him to be driven away at around this time tomorrow bailed pending further investigations.

    Then it goes on and on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,276

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    ny
    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Hoping Mandy sings like a canary, and then Blair is in the nick in short order.
    Is Blair even in the Epstein files? Trump and Clinton definitely are but no evidence he is
    Blair is more likely to be implicated in shenanigans relating to the Middle East, which Mandelson is also likely to be involved in.
    Well he has pretty much got through all that, unless Epstein was also involved not really relevant to these investigations
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,567
    I doubt he has the powers to do this, but if the King could send Mandy and Andy off to the Tower and let them consider their future it'd be better than the plod working their way through things.

    (Does anyone know what powers and jurisdiction KC3 might still have? I don't imagine he'd actually want to use it if he had such powers, but arguably it might not be so bad)
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,797
    edited February 23
    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    I'm not a Green supporter but it's the right policy. Criminalisation creates more harm than good.

    If fifth parties can't be a bit brave on social policy, even when there is a strong argument for it, then our politics just becomes one big mush of the lowest common denominator.

    I understand it is an easy policy to attack superficially, so may backfire for them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,731

    At least Starmer didnt do something really stupid like tie himself to a by election result the day a central figure in the Labour movenent was arrested

    Calm down, have you forgotten the Eastleigh by-election of 2013 or my all time favourite one, the 2006 Dunfermline and West Fife by-election which the the Lib Dems won despite their leader having to resign for being an alcoholic, one contender had to quit after he admitted to shitting on rent boys, another Simon Hughes, the straight choice chap, came out as bi.
    Who was shitting on rent boys ?
    TSE may have misspoken here: The Lib Dem Mark Oaten had to resign after paying an male prostitute to shit on him, not to shit on the prostitute. I'm sure that distinction makes all the difference.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,757
    edited February 23
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    ny
    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Hoping Mandy sings like a canary, and then Blair is in the nick in short order.
    Is Blair even in the Epstein files? Trump and Clinton definitely are but no evidence he is
    His name occurs in them, he met Epstein in Downing Street in 2002 thanks to arrest boy and Epstein boasted he wss close to him
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,942

    Brixian59 said:

    Former UK Ambassador to the US and Donald Trump arrested

    Just think what this says for our international relationships

    Sam Coates on Sky reporting there will be dozens of labour mps again with their head in their hands asking why Keir Starmer ignored all of the warning signals, whether or not there is one rule for some and another for others when it comes to appointing Mandelson, also when it comes to his judgement and how he didn't spot the pitfalls of the Mandelson appointment when he made it, despite all the warnings in December 2024

    Anything to deflect from an outstanding performance from Bridget Phillipson today.

    Seeking to resolve the Tory SEND mess
    Thank fuck Mandy’s been arrested; now we can draw attention away from what everyone was talking about.. Bridget bloody Phillipson

    Do you realise how mental you sound?
    The continual attempts at astroturfing remind me of @tim

    But @Brixian59, I knew Farmer Tupac. And you are no Farmer Tupac.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,522
    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    You could pay for a couple of carbon capture projects with that sort of money instead of pissing it away on SEND.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,567
    edited February 23

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    You could pay for a couple of carbon capture projects with that sort of money instead of pissing it away on SEND.
    The day they come to arrest EdM will be a champagne day for me.

    (Edit: I don't think he's committed any crimes, but he's just wasting money and strangling industry. And looking bloody smug)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,942
    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,246

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    that is what was done back in the 1950's. the so called British approach.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC539406/#:~:text=Over the twentieth century, treatment,treatment from primary care and

    so back to those halcyon days that Refukkers so want to return us to.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,691
    Taz said:

    Mandelson arrested but not handcuffed when he gets into the back of the car.

    Bet he's gutted!

    Imagine Labour win G&D in the week their US Ambassador is nicked, that would be quite something
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,587
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    You could pay for a couple of carbon capture projects with that sort of money instead of pissing it away on SEND.
    The day they come to arrest EdM will be a champagne day for me.

    (Edit: I don't think he's committed any crimes, but he's just wasting money and strangling industry. And looking bloody smug)
    Glass of v expensive Margaux 4 me
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,567

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,942

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    Proper chemists and drug companies can make a far better product, far cheaper than any illegal lab.

    Why would you buy some dodgy crap off Danny The Drug dealer if you could get medical grade Diamorphine at Boots? For less money.
  • nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    So are we "Centrists" or "Radical Left Lunatics"??

    I is confused!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,942
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    Ah yes, the head shrinkers study for a fair old chunk of their lives. The best and brightest in the class. And we are to believe that they hand out diagnoses like smarties?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,118

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    I would imagine that's a feature not a bug. Labour wants kids to be diagnosed with special needs and to become recipients of state 'support'. It wants everyone to be that way - powerless dependents of the state's largesse. Starmer dreams of a country where the idea of feeding breakfast to your own child provokes riots.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,210
    edited February 23

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Very unkind. A relative of mine was at University with GB and hasn't a bad word for him. Honest genuine and the least crooked person you could meet apparently

    Not Flash Just Gordon. (The one that got away)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,147
    Evening all :)

    Of more interest than Mandelson is the change in direction on SEND announced by Bridget Phillipson today.

    It looks as though the thrust of the policy will be on the infrastructure with money allocated both to the provision of SEN accommodation within schools and to the recruitment of qualified teachers to ensure assessments and reviews are promptly carried out. Given we are likely to see declining school numbers in the next decade, we might end up with unused accommodation and a surfeit of qualified staff with little to do.

    Nonetheless, it's probably the best approach alongside with a tightening of the rules related to EHCPs and those in turn to be replaced by ISPs for all but the most complex cases.

    As always, you can ask from where the money will come and £4 billion isn't an insignificant sum for all it is spread over three years. The accommodation changes will likely be funded from capital budgets leaving the £1.8 billion for SALTs, STIPs and Education Psychologists to be the more immediate manifestation of the "new" money.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,587
    edited February 23
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Very unkind. A relative of mine was at University with GB and hasn't a bad word for him. Honest genuine and the least crooked person you could meet apparently
    Not the sort of person who would turn up at a party with a bag of bricks then to dupe fellow students that he was briniing booze.... would never throw things at his colleagues or just be a nasty shit as a last act as PM to reduce the incoming Prime Minister's remuneration...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,730

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    ny
    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Hoping Mandy sings like a canary, and then Blair is in the nick in short order.
    Is Blair even in the Epstein files? Trump and Clinton definitely are but no evidence he is
    His name occurs in them, he met Epstein in Downing Street in 2002 thanks to arrest boy and Epstein boasted he wss close to him
    Epstein also discusses Blair in a conversation with Ehud Barak where Epstein seems incredulous about the amount of money Blair was making.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,567

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    Ah yes, the head shrinkers study for a fair old chunk of their lives. The best and brightest in the class. And we are to believe that they hand out diagnoses like smarties?
    Being diagnosed with a wonky nose doesn't mean you need support. And when you have an industry associated with the diagnosis and treatment of wonky noses then you're making a problem.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    edited February 23

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    So are we "Centrists" or "Radical Left Lunatics"??

    I is confused!
    I am a Radical Leftist in the Anti-Bamboo Faction.

    Christ that stuff wants to grow back fast, and there's still almost four weeks until the spring equinox.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,797
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    My observation as a parent that additional support for those who have more needs will help everyone:
    1) Child in question helped achieve their potential. That could be the difference between ending up a productive member of society or not - saving the state for decades.
    2) Every other child in the class are helped via reduced disruption and a teacher that can give the other 28 or so children some attention.

    And if one school has twice as many children that need additional support, their funding and staffing should be higher than one with less.

    Education spending is an investment in the future of our country. And the sums here are tiny compared to what is spent on welfare or rising health costs.

    Penny pinching will make us all poorer.
  • HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    ny
    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Hoping Mandy sings like a canary, and then Blair is in the nick in short order.
    Is Blair even in the Epstein files? Trump and Clinton definitely are but no evidence he is
    His name occurs in them, he met Epstein in Downing Street in 2002 thanks to arrest boy and Epstein boasted he wss close to him
    Epstein also discusses Blair in a conversation with Ehud Barak where Epstein seems incredulous about the amount of money Blair was making.
    And suggests he's in the pay of the Kazakhs.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,147

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    I don't wholly agree - you could argue when Corbyn was Labour leader, he advocated strongly for contentious policies but was vilified in the media in a way the remigration policy for example hasn't.

    Labour discovered in 2019, as they had in 1983, there's no point being socialist in Britain - it's not 1945. Social Democracy, on the other hand, which you can argue has been the default political policy for much of the post war period, can be sold time and again whether you call it Butskellism, the Third Way. Thatcherism with a Human Face, liberal conservatism or whatever.

    Truss's attempt to break the social democratic mould failed because it didn't meet the "fairness" test.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,522

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    Proper chemists and drug companies can make a far better product, far cheaper than any illegal lab.

    Why would you buy some dodgy crap off Danny The Drug dealer if you could get medical grade Diamorphine at Boots? For less money.
    People buy fake fags from dodgy geezers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,942
    edited February 23
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    Ah yes, the head shrinkers study for a fair old chunk of their lives. The best and brightest in the class. And we are to believe that they hand out diagnoses like smarties?
    Being diagnosed with a wonky nose doesn't mean you need support. And when you have an industry associated with the diagnosis and treatment of wonky noses then you're making a problem.
    Ah, so full on denial.

    Perhaps you think a spot if caning will fix them right up?

    I suggest you talk to some actual teachers.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,670

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    If drugs being illegal worked, I would support it. I don't think it works. I think decriminalisation does the least harm for the greatest number.

    It is futile to pretend it would not be complicated. Just thinking about protection of children would be a big subject. There are lots motre.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    edited February 23
    Ratters said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    My observation as a parent that additional support for those who have more needs will help everyone:
    1) Child in question helped achieve their potential. That could be the difference between ending up a productive member of society or not - saving the state for decades.
    2) Every other child in the class are helped via reduced disruption and a teacher that can give the other 28 or so children some attention.

    And if one school has twice as many children that need additional support, their funding and staffing should be higher than one with less.

    Education spending is an investment in the future of our country. And the sums here are tiny compared to what is spent on welfare or rising health costs.

    Penny pinching will make us all poorer.
    The thing is, if the majority (or even a large minority) have Special Educational Needs, then they're no longer Special Educational Needs. They're normal everyday educational needs.

    We should ask what is so wrong with the education system that it can't accommodate normal everyday educational needs.

    Perhaps the whole education system needs redesigning so that we don't have to apply a plaster of special educational needs provision to such a large proportion of children.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,567
    Ratters said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    My observation as a parent that additional support for those who have more needs will help everyone:
    1) Child in question helped achieve their potential. That could be the difference between ending up a productive member of society or not - saving the state for decades.
    2) Every other child in the class are helped via reduced disruption and a teacher that can give the other 28 or so children some attention.

    And if one school has twice as many children that need additional support, their funding and staffing should be higher than one with less.

    Education spending is an investment in the future of our country. And the sums here are tiny compared to what is spent on welfare or rising health costs.

    Penny pinching will make us all poorer.
    I distrust this whole drama around kids. Children are incredibly robust. Stick cotton wool on the sharpest of edges, but I genuinely believe that making them a special case is counter-productive.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,942

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    Proper chemists and drug companies can make a far better product, far cheaper than any illegal lab.

    Why would you buy some dodgy crap off Danny The Drug dealer if you could get medical grade Diamorphine at Boots? For less money.
    People buy fake fags from dodgy geezers.
    Because they cost a fraction of real cigs.
  • novanova Posts: 936

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    stodge said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    I don't wholly agree - you could argue when Corbyn was Labour leader, he advocated strongly for contentious policies but was vilified in the media in a way the remigration policy for example hasn't.

    Labour discovered in 2019, as they had in 1983, there's no point being socialist in Britain - it's not 1945. Social Democracy, on the other hand, which you can argue has been the default political policy for much of the post war period, can be sold time and again whether you call it Butskellism, the Third Way. Thatcherism with a Human Face, liberal conservatism or whatever.

    Truss's attempt to break the social democratic mould failed because it didn't meet the "fairness" test.
    You can try to change people's views and whether you fail or succeed depends on how good you are at it. Corbyn failed, not because he was wrong to try, but because he wasn't good at it.

    Truss failed because she completely misunderstood realities of the government bond market.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    I would imagine that's a feature not a bug. Labour wants kids to be diagnosed with special needs and to become recipients of state 'support'. It wants everyone to be that way - powerless dependents of the state's largesse. Starmer dreams of a country where the idea of feeding breakfast to your own child provokes riots.
    Just look at the increase in SEND

    Just look at the increase on NEETS

    2020 to 2024

    Your Tory Government created the shit show

    Typical Tory

    No contrition
    No humility
    No apology
    Just lies and distorted denial

    Beneath contempt
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    Proper chemists and drug companies can make a far better product, far cheaper than any illegal lab.

    Why would you buy some dodgy crap off Danny The Drug dealer if you could get medical grade Diamorphine at Boots? For less money.
    People buy fake fags from dodgy geezers.
    Given the prohibitive pricing they certainly do.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,522

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    Proper chemists and drug companies can make a far better product, far cheaper than any illegal lab.

    Why would you buy some dodgy crap off Danny The Drug dealer if you could get medical grade Diamorphine at Boots? For less money.
    People buy fake fags from dodgy geezers.
    Because they cost a fraction of real cigs.
    And the same will apply to other drugs, once the Chancellor gets the chance to tax the pukka stuff.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,797

    Ratters said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    Its simply a nonsense. Kids come in all shapes and forms. Subsidising a wonky nose isn't the way.
    My observation as a parent that additional support for those who have more needs will help everyone:
    1) Child in question helped achieve their potential. That could be the difference between ending up a productive member of society or not - saving the state for decades.
    2) Every other child in the class are helped via reduced disruption and a teacher that can give the other 28 or so children some attention.

    And if one school has twice as many children that need additional support, their funding and staffing should be higher than one with less.

    Education spending is an investment in the future of our country. And the sums here are tiny compared to what is spent on welfare or rising health costs.

    Penny pinching will make us all poorer.
    The thing is, if the majority (or even a large minority) have Special Educational Needs, then they're no longer Special Educational Needs. They're normal everyday educational needs.

    We should ask what is so wrong with the education system that it can't accommodate normal everyday educational needs.

    Perhaps the whole education system needs redesigning so that we don't have to apply a plaster of special educational needs provision to such a large proportion of children.
    Perhaps the student to teachers ratio simply only works for the median child with the amount we're willing to spend on education.

    Teachers don't have the time to support those who are struggling, not do they have the time to stretch those who could go at a much quicker pace.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,210

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Very unkind. A relative of mine was at University with GB and hasn't a bad word for him. Honest genuine and the least crooked person you could meet apparently
    Not the sort of person who would turn up at a party with a bag of bricks then to dupe fellow students that he was briniing booze.... would never throw things at his colleagues or just be a nasty shit as a last act as PM to reduce the incoming Prime Minister's remuneration...
    It was his lack of interest in personal aggrandisement that of the stories she told were to me the most impressive. A politician who was not in it for their greater glory........

    But other opinions are available I'm sure
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302

    Omnium said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Impressed Philipson has got some positive reviews of her reforms to SEND from relevant charities. Quite a turnaround from tbe mood music before.

    Personally relevant for me so will be watching this closely

    Amazing what a £4bn bung can do.
    The plan, by the way, is lots of reassessments.

    The government seems to believe that this will result in less diagnoses.

    Except, if you listen to people who work in the area, there are vast numbers who can’t get assessments. For years.

    Aside from the minor point about paying for and staffing the assessment process, i will bet that the result will be a massive increase in diagnosis.
    I would imagine that's a feature not a bug. Labour wants kids to be diagnosed with special needs and to become recipients of state 'support'. It wants everyone to be that way - powerless dependents of the state's largesse. Starmer dreams of a country where the idea of feeding breakfast to your own child provokes riots.
    It’s labours way. This was something Brown pioneered with tax credits. He wanted a group of voters reliant on the state for its income and not,likely to vote for anyone likely to reduce it, they’ve not changed.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,424
    It strikes me that the difference in opinion on here (and elsewhere) on Labour's SEND proposals can be entirely explained by reference to those who have read the proposals properly and those who haven't.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,937
    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    I would go further - I don't think Reform are close to their own voters on this. I suspect while most Reform voters are genuinely furious about the small boats immigrants, the criminals who can't be deported and abiut the scandal which must not be named, they are also, if they think about it, relaxed about most of the immigrants who are here, and probably meet often or know or are friends with immigrants or their children and would not welcome those 'good' immigrants' lives being made harder.
    Reform have incorrectly concluded that because some opposition to immigration has gone down well with some voters, those voters want more and more and more of it.
    Fortunately for Reform most voters' attention is quite light.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    I'd love to know on what basis Epstein maanged to get a meeting in Number 10 with Blair in 2002, according to reports.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,522

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    When 'the left' comes out with shite like claiming that a bloke in a frock is a woman, then there are areas where they need to be in retreat.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,937
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people right now are probably wishing they'd never met and become friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

    Or Peter Mandelson
    I don’t suppose it will happen, but if son of the manse Gordon Brown is somehow implicated, I will drown in popcorn.
    Very unkind. A relative of mine was at University with GB and hasn't a bad word for him. Honest genuine and the least crooked person you could meet apparently
    Not the sort of person who would turn up at a party with a bag of bricks then to dupe fellow students that he was briniing booze.... would never throw things at his colleagues or just be a nasty shit as a last act as PM to reduce the incoming Prime Minister's remuneration...
    It was his lack of interest in personal aggrandisement that of the stories she told were to me the most impressive. A politician who was not in it for their greater glory........

    But other opinions are available I'm sure
    I have many objections to Gordon Brown, but he certainly doesn't appear to have been in politics for a love of money and for the luxuries it offered him.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    Cookie said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    I would go further - I don't think Reform are close to their own voters on this. I suspect while most Reform voters are genuinely furious about the small boats immigrants, the criminals who can't be deported and abiut the scandal which must not be named, they are also, if they think about it, relaxed about most of the immigrants who are here, and probably meet often or know or are friends with immigrants or their children and would not welcome those 'good' immigrants' lives being made harder.
    Reform have incorrectly concluded that because some opposition to immigration has gone down well with some voters, those voters want more and more and more of it.
    Fortunately for Reform most voters' attention is quite light.
    I think people who support Reform draw a distinction between the "good" immigrants - who they know - and the large numbers of bad immigrants that they read about in the papers - who they want to send home - and they don't realise that Reform's policies will affect the former as much as the latter.

    My immigrant friends have lots of stories of work colleagues, other bus passengers, etc, ranting at them about sending immigrants home, but with the caveat of, "not you, all the other ones."

    A lot of people don't see the immigrants they know positively as being representative of immigrants in general.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,797

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    I'm inclined to agree, but then do you include all prescription drugs in that? What about any old - untested - drug developed by some dodgy chemist in their garage?

    I think there's a distinction between decriminalise and legalise that's probably important.
    Proper chemists and drug companies can make a far better product, far cheaper than any illegal lab.

    Why would you buy some dodgy crap off Danny The Drug dealer if you could get medical grade Diamorphine at Boots? For less money.
    People buy fake fags from dodgy geezers.
    Because they cost a fraction of real cigs.
    And the same will apply to other drugs, once the Chancellor gets the chance to tax the pukka stuff.
    Back in the 60s a Registered Drug Addict could get a daily prescription on the NHS from a chemist, and there were all-night pharmacies in central London catering for those who couldn't wait until morning. There was a scene in Sunday, Bloody Sunday (1971) depicting this (featuring a future Labour MP, incidentally). In retrospect this seems like a more humane policy than the current one but, of course, it was abandoned in favour of an all-out War On Drugs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302
    Is our Brixian friend Jacqui Smith in disguise ?

    Here she is on SKY being interviewed whining at being asked about Mandelson when she wants to sound off with happy clappy stuff about SEND.

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2025991166504636817?s=61
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,757
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd love to know on what basis Epstein maanged to get a meeting in Number 10 with Blair in 2002, according to reports.

    Mandelson recommended him to Blair as someone eith his finger on the pulse of markets etc
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,356

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd love to know on what basis Epstein maanged to get a meeting in Number 10 with Blair in 2002, according to reports.

    Mandelson recommended him to Blair as someone eith his finger on the pulse of markets etc
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yk16gpxj0o
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,937
    Taz said:

    Is our Brixian friend Jacqui Smith in disguise ?

    Here she is on SKY being interviewed whining at being asked about Mandelson when she wants to sound off with happy clappy stuff about SEND.

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2025991166504636817?s=61

    She sounds mental too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    It didn't work out too well in Oregon and Washington. The policy seemed to encourage people to try drugs who wouldn't otherwise have done so.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302
    Meanwhile SEND transport costs spiral.

    https://x.com/elliotkeck/status/2025923452117369121?s=61

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,670

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    I don't feel clear that remigration, in any compulsory sense, of legal residents is actually a Reform policy. Is it? And is in in their policy documents or election material?

    Last year Reform suggested amending ILR, though I have not heard this outrageous policy mentioned recently. Is it still their policy? That seems to me as close as they have got to remigration, but I may have missed something.

  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    Is our Brixian friend Jacqui Smith in disguise ?

    Here she is on SKY being interviewed whining at being asked about Mandelson when she wants to sound off with happy clappy stuff about SEND.

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2025991166504636817?s=61

    She sounds mental too.
    Brixian can’t be mental. They’re a Birmingham City fan.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,730
    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/2025977397162508680

    We need a full, independent, public inquiry into the sinister operations of Labour Together.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746
    Taz said:

    Is our Brixian friend Jacqui Smith in disguise ?

    Here she is on SKY being interviewed whining at being asked about Mandelson when she wants to sound off with happy clappy stuff about SEND.

    https://x.com/guidofawkes/status/2025991166504636817?s=61

    Oh no

    Outed

    Doh
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746

    Cookie said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    I would go further - I don't think Reform are close to their own voters on this. I suspect while most Reform voters are genuinely furious about the small boats immigrants, the criminals who can't be deported and abiut the scandal which must not be named, they are also, if they think about it, relaxed about most of the immigrants who are here, and probably meet often or know or are friends with immigrants or their children and would not welcome those 'good' immigrants' lives being made harder.
    Reform have incorrectly concluded that because some opposition to immigration has gone down well with some voters, those voters want more and more and more of it.
    Fortunately for Reform most voters' attention is quite light.
    I think people who support Reform draw a distinction between the "good" immigrants - who they know - and the large numbers of bad immigrants that they read about in the papers - who they want to send home - and they don't realise that Reform's policies will affect the former as much as the latter.

    My immigrant friends have lots of stories of work colleagues, other bus passengers, etc, ranting at them about sending immigrants home, but with the caveat of, "not you, all the other ones."

    A lot of people don't see the immigrants they know positively as being representative of immigrants in general.
    I wonder what decent Tory voters think about it being Tory policy too.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,670
    Andy_JS said:

    I would totally legalise all drugs.

    Sell smack to junkies via a clinic. Cut crime - petty stealing to pay for drugs and the OCG trafficking.

    It didn't work out too well in Oregon and Washington. The policy seemed to encourage people to try drugs who wouldn't otherwise have done so.
    There aren't any good drugs policies, only bad and worse ones. I support decriminalisation, which would be hard to achieve, very complicated, and would have bad consequences.

    If the current policy worked I would support it. I don't know anyone who thinks it does.

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 746

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    When 'the left' comes out with shite like claiming that a bloke in a frock is a woman, then there are areas where they need to be in retreat.
    Remigration is now Tory policy too.

    In fact the Tories claim Reform stole the idea from them.

    Disgraceful.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,424
    algarkirk said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    I don't feel clear that remigration, in any compulsory sense, of legal residents is actually a Reform policy. Is it? And is in in their policy documents or election material?

    Last year Reform suggested amending ILR, though I have not heard this outrageous policy mentioned recently. Is it still their policy? That seems to me as close as they have got to remigration, but I may have missed something.

    Zia Yusuf today confirmed that ILR would be scrapped, replaced by a 5-year work visa with a high salary threshold. He also announced the formation of UK Deportation Command, with capacity to deport up to 288,000 a year.
    Think he's trying to out-Rupert Rupert.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,961
    edited February 23
    Hello again, PB ers.

    Rupert Lowe is an even bigger worry for our democratic system than Farage, thrown out even of Reform partly for his threatening behaviour. A genuine public schoolboy thug.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302
    algarkirk said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    I don't feel clear that remigration, in any compulsory sense, of legal residents is actually a Reform policy. Is it? And is in in their policy documents or election material?

    Last year Reform suggested amending ILR, though I have not heard this outrageous policy mentioned recently. Is it still their policy? That seems to me as close as they have got to remigration, but I may have missed something.

    Re migration isn’t a Reform policy, it is a Restore Policy.

    Farage called Restore out for it at his press conference last week.

    Their deportation stuff applies to irregular/illegals and they propose changes to ILR, as does Labour.

    Quite frankly it needs it as the Boriswave saw nearly a million dependents come (CPS data) and, even if half get ILR, that’s a huge burden on the state as has been reported quite a bit last year prior to labours conversion to doing something about it,
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,730
    Brixian59 said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    When 'the left' comes out with shite like claiming that a bloke in a frock is a woman, then there are areas where they need to be in retreat.
    Remigration is now Tory policy too.

    In fact the Tories claim Reform stole the idea from them.

    Disgraceful.
    I believe it's Labour policy too after Starmer's landmark speech condeming the "one-nation experiment in open borders" and promising to remove people with no right to be here.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,568
    stodge said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    I don't wholly agree - you could argue when Corbyn was Labour leader, he advocated strongly for contentious policies but was vilified in the media in a way the remigration policy for example hasn't.

    Labour discovered in 2019, as they had in 1983, there's no point being socialist in Britain - it's not 1945. Social Democracy, on the other hand, which you can argue has been the default political policy for much of the post war period, can be sold time and again whether you call it Butskellism, the Third Way. Thatcherism with a Human Face, liberal conservatism or whatever.

    Truss's attempt to break the social democratic mould failed because it didn't meet the "fairness" test.
    The "fairness" test? Surely it failed because the markets were spooked. Since when have the markets been concerned about "fairness"?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302

    Hello again, PB ers.

    Rupert Lowe is an even bigger worry for our democratic system than Farage, thrown out even of Reform partly for his threatening behaviour. A genuine public schoolboy thug.

    Maybe I’m complacent here. I see him as little more than an obscure fringe character who most people haven’t heard of.
  • Is this really the Green Party's Urdu message?

    “Assalam Alaikum.

    Welcome to Gorton and Denton.

    On 26th February, remember to vote for Hannah Spencer, the Green Party MP candidate. Wherever you go, vote in support of Hannah Spencer and the Green Party.

    We are the workers, cleaners, drivers, and mothers who keep this area running. Giving thanks to Allah, we work hard every day. But the politicians are not working for us.

    The Labour Party is the one giving indefinite leave to remain (ILR) to illegal immigrants. The Conservatives’ agenda is the same. Reform UK’s agenda will bring third-class people to our country and allow more than 600,000 illegal immigrants into our area.

    They will bring friends of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi here.

    A cruel politician can win if we don’t vote Green to stop the Reforms… They want to break up our communities.

    They want to deport families who have lived here for years, and they want to tax people born abroad even more.

    They fuel Islamophobia, and they put our safety and dignity at risk.

    But there is another way. I know who I represent & how to hold power accountable. I know what it means to work hard to earn a living, and I also know how to hold power and greed accountable.

    On February 26th, let’s unite our vote behind the Greens.

    Vote Green Party.

    Ramadan Mubarak from your Green MP candidate, Hannah Spencer.”
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,007

    Cookie said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    I would go further - I don't think Reform are close to their own voters on this. I suspect while most Reform voters are genuinely furious about the small boats immigrants, the criminals who can't be deported and abiut the scandal which must not be named, they are also, if they think about it, relaxed about most of the immigrants who are here, and probably meet often or know or are friends with immigrants or their children and would not welcome those 'good' immigrants' lives being made harder.
    Reform have incorrectly concluded that because some opposition to immigration has gone down well with some voters, those voters want more and more and more of it.
    Fortunately for Reform most voters' attention is quite light.
    I think people who support Reform draw a distinction between the "good" immigrants - who they know - and the large numbers of bad immigrants that they read about in the papers - who they want to send home - and they don't realise that Reform's policies will affect the former as much as the latter.

    My immigrant friends have lots of stories of work colleagues, other bus passengers, etc, ranting at them about sending immigrants home, but with the caveat of, "not you, all the other ones."

    A lot of people don't see the immigrants they know positively as being representative of immigrants in general.
    And when Reform start deporting their friends and work colleagues they’ll say they didn’t vote for that ! Just like in the USA .

    The Reform policy is despicable and cruel. The fact we’ve now got a party advocating this and there’s little media blowback shows we’re living in dark times .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,730
    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2026005609745650169

    Keir Starmer took his family to Poland over the weekend to find the home where his wife's Jewish grandparents fled to England from in WW1

    He wanted his kids to "fully appreciate the roots of their mother's Jewish heritage"
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,709
    The Greens should really walk this. Failing to stand Polanski was a huge mistake but even so, they should walk this. My guess is Reform second and Labour third. The rest nowhere.
  • Taz said:

    Hello again, PB ers.

    Rupert Lowe is an even bigger worry for our democratic system than Farage, thrown out even of Reform partly for his threatening behaviour. A genuine public schoolboy thug.

    Maybe I’m complacent here. I see him as little more than an obscure fringe character who most people haven’t heard of.
    I'm afraid I would see that as complacent, yes ; his party is already on 10% in its first week.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2026005609745650169

    Keir Starmer took his family to Poland over the weekend to find the home where his wife's Jewish grandparents fled to England from in WW1

    He wanted his kids to "fully appreciate the roots of their mother's Jewish heritage"

    Good for him. I’d say that reflects well on him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,237
    algarkirk said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    I don't feel clear that remigration, in any compulsory sense, of legal residents is actually a Reform policy. Is it? And is in in their policy documents or election material?

    Last year Reform suggested amending ILR, though I have not heard this outrageous policy mentioned recently. Is it still their policy? That seems to me as close as they have got to remigration, but I may have missed something.

    The ILR move was mentioned in the Standard today:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/knife-crime-london-reform-zia-yusuf-visas-migrants-pakistan-britain-b1272018.html
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,531
    algarkirk said:

    nova said:

    nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Reform and the fascists on the Right have managed to shift public debate so that "remigrating" hundreds of thousands of people who are living and working perfectly legally in Britain is now policy for a party with ~30% of the vote.

    If you want to change the country you don't shy away from policies that might be contentious, you work out ways to advocate for them and to change people's minds.

    One of the reasons the Left is in such a dire place right now is that it has spent decades not advocating for its point of view, not taking on hard arguments, and so it has only been the Right that has had the ambition to change people's opinions. And so the centre ground has moved to the Right.
    But aren't the kind of racist policies that Reform are coming out with in contrast to changes over the last fifty years?

    I agree that more recently many on the centre and left have tried to fence sit when it comes to arguments around immigration. However, in terms of tolerance to different races, and general liberal attitudes around homosexuality and women's rights, the centre ground has shifted hugely to the left in the last few decades.

    Reform have clearly emboldened a large section of society that still holds these views, but I don't think they're anywhere close to the centre ground.
    Remigration was a BNP policy in around 2008 when Nick Griffin made it onto Question Time, and that was then the end of the BNP in electoral politics.

    Now it's policy of a party on ~30% of the vote. Of course there's been a shift.

    It's not just about immigration, either. There's a whole heap of policy areas where the left-wing has been in retreat.
    I don't feel clear that remigration, in any compulsory sense, of legal residents is actually a Reform policy. Is it? And is in in their policy documents or election material?

    Last year Reform suggested amending ILR, though I have not heard this outrageous policy mentioned recently. Is it still their policy? That seems to me as close as they have got to remigration, but I may have missed something.
    You have missed today's policy announcement.

    "A brief policy document states that a government led by Nigel Farage would seek to deport more than 600,000 people in its first parliament. This could include a large number of individuals holding indefinite leave to remain, which would be retrospectively revoked if they failed to qualify for the proposed time-limited visas."
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302

    Taz said:

    Hello again, PB ers.

    Rupert Lowe is an even bigger worry for our democratic system than Farage, thrown out even of Reform partly for his threatening behaviour. A genuine public schoolboy thug.

    Maybe I’m complacent here. I see him as little more than an obscure fringe character who most people haven’t heard of.
    I'm afraid I would see that as complacent, yes ; his party is already on 10% in its first week.
    Is it. I thought that poll had been debunked due to the questioning.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302
    Boom

    ‘ BREAKING: IBM stock, $IBM, falls over -10% after Anthropic announces that Claude can streamline COBOL code.

    It’s becoming increasingly clear how pivotal the times we are in right now truly are.’

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2026018343833026834?s=61
  • nico67 said:

    I think the Greens will come to regret their drug policy .

    They’re still favourites for the by-election but the policy really will harm them in the long run .

    The argument for legalising cannabis is less toxic and I’d fully support that but not drugs like heroin and crack .


    Its the one sensible policy of theirs.

    I think that crack and heroin are terrible things and crack especially makes anyone who takes it not an obnoxious arsehole. The world would be a better place without it.

    However I still think it should be legal. Regulated but legal, sold to known quantities, to known strengths, and with duties paid rather than going to criminals.

    It should be treated as a health problem, which it is, not a crime one.

    Prohibition does not work.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,587

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2026005609745650169

    Keir Starmer took his family to Poland over the weekend to find the home where his wife's Jewish grandparents fled to England from in WW1

    He wanted his kids to "fully appreciate the roots of their mother's Jewish heritage"

    I hope paid for it...
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,602
    edited February 23
    Is a Party campaigning in Urdu a new thing for the UK?

    And is it a welcome thing?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,961
    edited February 23
    Musk's algorithms are disproportionately ramping Lowe's press releases for disparate users again, and he's the talk of the Right on twitter.
    Farage is already hovering about even further right to attract his supporters.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,302
    This is a genuine tweet from the White House !!

    ‘ Can’t stop winning.’

    https://x.com/whitehouse/status/2025764238577295863?s=61
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,366
    How right this is.

    "Everyone wants to live in the 90s

    We have to get serious about rebuilding British culture
    Sebastian Milbank"

    https://thecritic.co.uk/everyone-wants-to-live-in-the-90s/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,757
    edited February 23
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Hello again, PB ers.

    Rupert Lowe is an even bigger worry for our democratic system than Farage, thrown out even of Reform partly for his threatening behaviour. A genuine public schoolboy thug.

    Maybe I’m complacent here. I see him as little more than an obscure fringe character who most people haven’t heard of.
    I'm afraid I would see that as complacent, yes ; his party is already on 10% in its first week.
    Is it. I thought that poll had been debunked due to the questioning.
    Find Out Now debunk it themselvrs in the write up 'non standard questions, no squeeze or turnout filters, not to be compared with regular VI polling'
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