Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
Stupid Covid laws, though.
No one outside of the NU10K actually considers them crimes.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Good grief not Ed Miliband . He failed once and would be a gift to the opposition.
Labour's done whenever the general election happens. It's really who is best placed to manage the defeat. I think the PLP will go for Ed Miliband in the hope that he will at least shore up the core, which is drifting away to the Greens at quite an alarming rate!
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
Lying about legal advice and lawyers I think is a bigger problem. And she did it over the course of weeks. Getting your taxes wrong in a very complicated scenario you can get past. There was also a bit of a stink about valuation of houses, etc, not just was the right tax paid.
There's every reason for Sarwar to call now for Starmer to go, if he's concluded that Starmer is going to go sometime in 2026 anyway, which just about everyone has.
Things are so bad that whoever is seen as wielding the knife is going to be thanked for it, especially by the Scottish electorate.
And Sarwar needs Starmer to go now, the last thing he needs is for the departure to be postponed until after a meltdown in the Scottish Parliament elections in May.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Why are you Tories so desperate for Milliband to become leader AGAIN?
I suspect you all underestimate Rayner. Remember Truss did the "what not to do" recce for her in 2022.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Why are you Tories so desperate for Milliband to become leader AGAIN?
I suspect you all underestimate Rayner. Remember Truss did the "what not to do" recce for her in 2022.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Why are you Tories so desperate for Milliband to become leader AGAIN?
I suspect you all underestimate Rayner. Remember Truss did the "what not to do" recce for her in 2022.
I don't WANT Miliband to become leader but I think he's best placed out of all the runners and riders.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Good grief not Ed Miliband . He failed once and would be a gift to the opposition.
Labour's done whenever the general election happens. It's really who is best placed to manage the defeat. I think the PLP will go for Ed Miliband in the hope that he will at least shore up the core, which is drifting away to the Greens at quite an alarming rate!
One Keir starts the Labour Party, the other Keir kills it.
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
Stupid Covid laws, though.
No one outside of the NU10K actually considers them crimes.
That was only one of Sunak’s, and polling suggests the general public were very concerned by Johnson's behaviour in lockdown.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Why are you Tories so desperate for Milliband to become leader AGAIN?
I suspect you all underestimate Rayner. Remember Truss did the "what not to do" recce for her in 2022.
Who thought it was a good idea to describe Starmer as "upbeat"? Its one of these bizarre words that gets trotted out on these occasions. And it sounds ridiculous. It makes him sound delusional or on drugs or both.
If Boris crime had been a slice of cake and Sunak in the corner with a glass of coke, they would have been fine. It was of course the lying and cover up and the fact Boris obviously gave all the staffers the "if the ball came out the back of the scrum and there was a case of booze lying around on a Friday evening and I happened not to be here, things do go missing you know..."
@Steven_Swinford There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
I rate Swinford but like a lot of political journos caught up in the 24 hour rolling news cycle I suspect he is justifying his wage.
Epstein has barely harmed Trump and he is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the bible.
Cabinet Ministers are doing what Cabinet Minister should be doing.
WORKING
Cooper and Mahmood have made statements this morning
Not everyone works 3 days a week and a staffer on X the other 4 days like Kemi (and an ex Tory MP very well known told me that)
Who thought it was a good idea to describe Starmer as "upbeat"? Its one of these bizarre words that gets trotted out on these occasions. And it sounds ridiculous. It makes him sound delusional or on drugs or both.
@Steven_Swinford There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
I rate Swinford but like a lot of political journos caught up in the 24 hour rolling news cycle I suspect he is justifying his wage.
Epstein has barely harmed Trump and he is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the bible.
Cabinet Ministers are doing what Cabinet Minister should be doing.
WORKING
Cooper and Mahmood have made statements this morning
Not everyone works 3 days a week and a staffer on X the other 4 days like Kemi (and an ex Tory MP very well known told me that)
If Starmer goes and Rayner can’t take the job because of her tax affairs then they should get Al Carns in .
He scrubs up well. Looks good in his military gear and could tell Farage to go fxck himself with his plastic patriotism .
You can’t have an unelected PM that even political junkies hadn’t heard of last week.
Why not ?
A clean slate with a good back story and certainly would be better placed to take on Reform. We’ve tried the so called experienced cabinet members as PM over recent years and they’ve all failed miserably.
@Steven_Swinford There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
I rate Swinford but like a lot of political journos caught up in the 24 hour rolling news cycle I suspect he is justifying his wage.
Epstein has barely harmed Trump and he is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the bible.
Cabinet Ministers are doing what Cabinet Minister should be doing.
WORKING
Cooper and Mahmood have made statements this morning
Not everyone works 3 days a week and a staffer on X the other 4 days like Kemi (and an ex Tory MP very well known told me that)
They are down the pit face, their screams of support cannot be heard by us surface folk They are just getting on with the job If anything they love Keir too much
If Starmer goes, it is surely not inconceivable that there is a general election in 2026 or 2027.
Yes, there would need to be a decent leader bounce etc but a new leader might fancy their chances against Farage if he is caught on the hop and not prepared for a campaign, and the Labour Party will otherwise face a very challenging narrative which haunted the Tories in the 2019 Parliament that the new leaders simply don’t have a mandate.
If Starmer goes, it is surely not inconceivable that there is a general election in 2026 or 2027.
Yes, there would need to be a decent leader bounce etc but a new leader might fancy their chances against Farage if he is caught on the hop and not prepared for a campaign, and the Labour Party will otherwise face a very challenging narrative which haunted the Tories in the 2019 Parliament that the new leaders simply don’t have a mandate.
Yes, we could find ourselves going to the polls way sooner than 2029...
If Starmer goes and Rayner can’t take the job because of her tax affairs then they should get Al Carns in .
He scrubs up well. Looks good in his military gear and could tell Farage to go fxck himself with his plastic patriotism .
You can’t have an unelected PM that even political junkies hadn’t heard of last week.
Spell me out the rules that say that?
There's of course no rule, but HMK might raise an eyebrow that 'some bloke' has the confidence of the house above a member of his privy council and cabinet Stranger things have happened of course
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
If Starmer goes, it is surely not inconceivable that there is a general election in 2026 or 2027.
Yes, there would need to be a decent leader bounce etc but a new leader might fancy their chances against Farage if he is caught on the hop and not prepared for a campaign, and the Labour Party will otherwise face a very challenging narrative which haunted the Tories in the 2019 Parliament that the new leaders simply don’t have a mandate.
Rayner demanded a GE when Sunak took over, claiming he had no mandate from the public. You’d like to think she would want to distance herself from Reform, who refuse to hold by-elections when MPs defect. Farage used to criticise MPs who did so
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Why are you Tories so desperate for Milliband to become leader AGAIN?
I suspect you all underestimate Rayner. Remember Truss did the "what not to do" recce for her in 2022.
Because we all have bets on him!
Fair point.
In all seriousness, everyone is commenting with different lenses on, and you never know which they are using. For example: - who wins me most money? - who do I think will win? - who do I think will be best placed for Labour? - who do I think will be best placed for the country? And in some cases, who do I really wish Labour would elect for their own disadvantage?
And it's not always 100% clear what individuals are talking about in any given situation.
For me, it's 1: Ed Miliband (though for very small stakes!) 2: Angela Rayner 3: Dunno. Maybe Ed Miliband, actually. Reasonably respected within the party, I think, and can at least do a Michael Howard. Or maybe Bridget Phillipson, though I think her strengths are maybe overstated. 4: Oooh, dunno, let's say - John Healey? Though there may be an element of projecting hoped-for characteristics onto an unknown entity there.
(And for clarity: 5: not applicable, in my case: I may not much like the Labour Party, but I can't see any plausible way in which the demise of the Labour Party doesn't result in its replacement by something far less palatable.)
Mischievously it must now be time to switch tack to pointing out Labour are desperately trying to stop Sir Keirs crusade against corruption by ousting him
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
Sarwar really has nothing to lose, makes sense for him to go in first.
He's looking at having to resign himself if the May results are anything like as bad as the polling currently indicates. This gets his excuses in early. I would never suggest that Sarwar was sharp but its not completely stupid.
If someone predicted this peerless and constant parade of chaos, ineptitude, idiocy, treachery, clumsiness and grisly national humiliation then I salute a Seer for the Ages
If someone predicted this peerless and constant parade of chaos, ineptitude, idiocy, treachery, clumsiness and grisly national humiliation then I salute a Seer for the Ages
Some PB Tories did and unfortunately on this occasion they were right.
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
If someone predicted this peerless and constant parade of chaos, ineptitude, idiocy, treachery, clumsiness and grisly national humiliation then I salute a Seer for the Ages
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
If Starmer goes, it is surely not inconceivable that there is a general election in 2026 or 2027.
Yes, there would need to be a decent leader bounce etc but a new leader might fancy their chances against Farage if he is caught on the hop and not prepared for a campaign, and the Labour Party will otherwise face a very challenging narrative which haunted the Tories in the 2019 Parliament that the new leaders simply don’t have a mandate.
I would be very surprised if we ever had a GE earlier than the fifth year of a Parliament ever again, except in the circumstance when the PM lacked a majority for their central policy.
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
I really like Angela Rayner but I don’t think she can become leader and then get a penalty .
Disappointing to hear reports that a now-resigned Norwegian ambassador apparently accepted $10 million from Epstein. What on earth were they thinking at the time?
The dilemma of “he who wields the sword never wears the crown”, which has kept Starmer in power in recent weeks, has an answer this afternoon. The sword is wielded by someone who wants a different crown.
If someone predicted this peerless and constant parade of chaos, ineptitude, idiocy, treachery, clumsiness and grisly national humiliation then I salute a Seer for the Ages
Some PB Tories did and unfortunately on this occasion they were right.
We did try to tell you. "He is Gordon Brittas, with a side order of Arnold Rimmer."
The dilemma of “he who wields the sword never wears the crown”, which has kept Starmer in power in recent weeks, has an answer this afternoon. The sword is wielded by someone who wants a different crown.
Fitting for New Labour’s coup de grace to come because of devolution.
One thing you can say, if that if they'd stuck with Jezza (or someone from Labours far left) - Mandelson would have been nowhere near government and this scandal would never have happened. 💪
If someone predicted this peerless and constant parade of chaos, ineptitude, idiocy, treachery, clumsiness and grisly national humiliation then I salute a Seer for the Ages
I have long held the view that Starmer is a technocrat not a politician or a leader of people.
What the last 18 months have shown is how little preparation Labour did in opposition to get ready for government.
But I hadn't anticipated this level of incompetence, chaos and bad politics.
One of the biggest majorities in history and they can't govern. It is beyond belief.
I know if only I hadnt held my council about SKS, Mandelson, Austerity Reeves and the whole shitshow
BTW I remember when i called Mandelson a friend of Epstein and the site owners Brother told me there was no evidence of that and I must not repeat it!! Oh well
Starmer would never have appointed Mandelson if Harris had won the election . Starmers desperation to suck up to Trump and find someone sleazy enough to deal with him will cost him his job .
He should have left Karen Pierce in the job who was very well regarded and wasn’t a sleaze bucket .
Sponsored by Man Utd shareholders looking for someone else to foot the bill for their stadium rebuild?
The North of England may well be usurped by a City that put in what was universally credited to be an outstanding bid for 1984, one that never stood a chance as President Sammaranch of the IOC wanted his home City Barcelona
Birmingham has already got ICC NIA NEC proximity to water sport in Nottingham and Equestrian at Stoneleigh
New Sports Quarter which will dwarf Etihadd site in Manchester.
3 billion of American Funding and spades in ground imminently completion date 2032
Comments
No one outside of the NU10K actually considers them crimes.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeffrey-epstein-norwegian-foreign-ministry-palestinian-israeli-b2916575.html
Things are so bad that whoever is seen as wielding the knife is going to be thanked for it, especially by the Scottish electorate.
And Sarwar needs Starmer to go now, the last thing he needs is for the departure to be postponed until after a meltdown in the Scottish Parliament elections in May.
I suspect you all underestimate Rayner. Remember Truss did the "what not to do" recce for her in 2022.
He scrubs up well. Looks good in his military gear and could tell Farage to go fxck himself with his plastic patriotism .
Poetic, in an odd sort of way?
WORKING
Cooper and Mahmood have made statements this morning
Not everyone works 3 days a week and a staffer on X the other 4 days like Kemi (and an ex Tory MP very well known told me that)
Actually, for shitz n gigglez.....
A clean slate with a good back story and certainly would be better placed to take on Reform. We’ve tried the so called experienced cabinet members as PM over recent years and they’ve all failed miserably.
They are just getting on with the job
If anything they love Keir too much
Not a comment or tweet in support
R.A.Y.N.E.R would be my personal choice as it would be a real shake up and a lot of fun but I don't think the PLP will go for her.
Has Birnam Wood come to Dunsinane yet?
Yes, there would need to be a decent leader bounce etc but a new leader might fancy their chances against Farage if he is caught on the hop and not prepared for a campaign, and the Labour Party will otherwise face a very challenging narrative which haunted the Tories in the 2019 Parliament that the new leaders simply don’t have a mandate.
Stranger things have happened of course
For example:
- who wins me most money?
- who do I think will win?
- who do I think will be best placed for Labour?
- who do I think will be best placed for the country?
And in some cases, who do I really wish Labour would elect for their own disadvantage?
And it's not always 100% clear what individuals are talking about in any given situation.
For me, it's
1: Ed Miliband (though for very small stakes!)
2: Angela Rayner
3: Dunno. Maybe Ed Miliband, actually. Reasonably respected within the party, I think, and can at least do a Michael Howard. Or maybe Bridget Phillipson, though I think her strengths are maybe overstated.
4: Oooh, dunno, let's say - John Healey? Though there may be an element of projecting hoped-for characteristics onto an unknown entity there.
(And for clarity: 5: not applicable, in my case: I may not much like the Labour Party, but I can't see any plausible way in which the demise of the Labour Party doesn't result in its replacement by something far less palatable.)
Sarwar is that Kerplunk straw which when extracted brings forth an avalanche of falling objects..
BREAKING: Welsh Labour First Minister Eluned Morgan is set to follow Anas Sarwar in calling for Keir Starmer to resign
lololol Morgan as well as Sarwar
I challenge the forum, and the world beyond
If someone predicted this peerless and constant parade of chaos, ineptitude, idiocy, treachery, clumsiness and grisly national humiliation then I salute a Seer for the Ages
I hoped for better. Not actually good but with the damage being at the margins. Its not really worked out like that.
After 2017 it is inconceivable.
No Deputy Editor worth their salt could possibly go away just as the worst LAB PM ever is toppled
Because if he survives he will have to sack his Welsh and Scottish leaders, guaranteeing even worse defeats in May
It’s done
The dilemma of “he who wields the sword never wears the crown”, which has kept Starmer in power in recent weeks, has an answer this afternoon. The sword is wielded by someone who wants a different crown.
It’s “Paul Richards”
He’s now claiming that flocks of people are “joining Labour in the last 48 hours just to show their support for Sir Keir”
NEW THREAD
What the last 18 months have shown is how little preparation Labour did in opposition to get ready for government.
But I hadn't anticipated this level of incompetence, chaos and bad politics.
One of the biggest majorities in history and they can't govern. It is beyond belief.
BTW I remember when i called Mandelson a friend of Epstein and the site owners Brother told me there was no evidence of that and I must not repeat it!! Oh well
Starmer would never have appointed Mandelson if Harris had won the election . Starmers desperation to suck up to Trump and find someone sleazy enough to deal with him will cost him his job .
He should have left Karen Pierce in the job who was very well regarded and wasn’t a sleaze bucket .
Birmingham has already got ICC NIA NEC proximity to water sport in Nottingham and Equestrian at Stoneleigh
New Sports Quarter which will dwarf Etihadd site in Manchester.
3 billion of American Funding and spades in ground imminently completion date 2032
The problem with Miliband is that the above would apply ... and some - because he was leader when rejected in a past GE.