politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on tax planning
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If something is legal, it's legal. It's up to Government to close down the opportunities by changing the law. Granted this government hasn't, but then neither did the last one.Smarmeron said:@Anorak
In your case, it would appear you are getting government sanctioned tax relief.
There are others who decide to create such relief themselves. I know it is hard to distinguish between the two for some, but it is not all that difficult really.
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The closing two paragraphs in particular.FrancisUrquhart said:The trouble with Kids Company - It’s a favourite charity of David Cameron and many celebrities. But does it do what it claims to do?
It has received more than £25 million from the government, and another £4.25 million has just been agreed.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9437932/the-trouble-with-kids-company/
Worth a read, some rather troubling accusations in the article.The Spectator said:Charm is no substitute for transparency. Or at least it ought not to be. Officials in the Department for Education, for instance, were so unimpressed by Kids Company’s financial management that they persuaded ministers to stop millions in funding. Ms Batmanghelidhjh’s response was to contact the Prime Minister, who personally intervened with the Department for Education to make sure Kids Company got its cash. Not a word of the argument leaked.
Who can blame Camila for fighting for her charity? But this sequence of events exemplifies the problem: if you’re too well connected for anyone to criticise you, if you’re always pulling strings, you risk losing transparency and therefore accountability — however well intentioned you are.0 -
This whole tax thing is one of those irregular verbs isn't it?
It's
"legitimate tax planning" when Miliband does it.
"Tax avoidance" when a Labour MP flips principal private residence multiple times and
"Tax evasion" when a Tory, a Tory donor, or someone who ever met a Tory does it....
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"Only if there is a Lab Govt and then unlikely." True, but not for the reason you think.bigjohnowls said:
Only if there is a Lab Govt and then unlikely.nigel4england said:
He might even have to go back to work!TheWatcher said:
I think that if EICIPM doesn't come off, you're going to lose a shedload of money.bigjohnowls said:
What do you think will be GE2015 result?TheWatcher said:
We know, since you tell us every single day, normally after working up a sweat over Baxter. Retirement must be terribly dull.bigjohnowls said:
What is you GE2015 forecast mine is EICIPMTheWatcher said:
Labour are playing the Dirty Joker card, as they're a bit screwed on policy.MarqueeMark said:
It's all shadow boxing. The economy hasn't stepped in the ring yet.Yorkcity said:BenM said:
And Ipsos Mori came out showing Labour's share remaining more than solid.Speedy said:Summary of the day:
Ed Miliband chose to fight publicly a Tory donor over alleged tax evasion in the middle of a big tax evasion scandal, and won!
It might make an effect on the left (SNP, GRN wise), but it surely will make an impression in the media world who until now they have branded him a loser.
The Tories are damaged.
A good day all round for Ed.
After all the speculation last night regarding a corker of a poll been bad for Labour.
Then a threat of libel action.
It seems Labour have come out on top on both counts.
In boxing terms a technical knockout.
And Labour are going to need a cuts man in their corner when it does....
I wonder why N4E and The Watcher are not able to tell us their GE2015 forecasts?0 -
Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards0 -
Incomes aren't falling. We've had a one-off windfall drop in a major component of the price of nearly everything [once you take into account transport costs].bigjohnowls said:One reason is the effect on debtors. Prices and perhaps incomes may fall, but debts do not. If you are a business with falling revenue, or a household with a declining income, debt payments become more of a burden.
North Sea revenues will fall. And there may be less VAT etc. received from e.g. petrol. But that money can now be spent elsewhere and cycle through the economy. Estimates of about 1% of GDP abound.bigjohnowls said:Governments can be caught in the same trap, because if prices and incomes fall, so does tax revenue.
Persistent deflation, sure. But that's not what we're talking about. Households in particular will be more able to repay their debts will less money going on fuel.bigjohnowls said:And to state the obvious, there is an awful lot of debt floating around - money owed by governments, households and banks. Deflation could aggravate that problem.
The fall's already happened; the fact that it will show up in the figures for the next year isn't relevant.bigjohnowls said:Spending also delayed leading to not easy to get out of
The Bank of England seem to be doing fine.bigjohnowls said:Another issue is the effectiveness of central bank policy at a time of economic weakness. The key point here is the level of central bank' real interest rates
Why would it set in at this time? It's a one-off fall in a commodity price, not a persistent stagnation. It should be a boost. Longer-term we may need to be mindful of the Japanese experience as our society ages.bigjohnowls said:
If deflation sets in, it could hurt retailers' prospects
There have been many episodes in the past when real rates have been below zero. That is impossible to do when there's deflation, as you can't get interest rates much below zero. So it makes it much harder for the central bank to do anything to stimulate a flagging economy.
You've said that already.bigjohnowls said:Then there is the incentive to delay spending that can come with deflation. If something will be cheaper next year, some people might delay buying it.
Con Minority. DIGIPM.bigjohnowls said:Why arent you worried
And whats your GE2015 forecast mine is EICIPM0 -
bigjohnowls said:
Economy heading for deflation
Explain how negative inflation over the next few months on the back of falling oil prices is a bad thing.
The floor is yours BJO.
One reason is the effect on debtors. Prices and perhaps incomes may fall, but debts do not. If you are a business with falling revenue, or a household with a declining income, debt payments become more of a burden.
Governments can be caught in the same trap, because if prices and incomes fall, so does tax revenue.
And to state the obvious, there is an awful lot of debt floating around - money owed by governments, households and banks. Deflation could aggravate that problem.
Spending also delayed leading to not easy to get out of
Another issue is the effectiveness of central bank policy at a time of economic weakness. The key point here is the level of central bank' real interest rates
If deflation sets in, it could hurt retailers' prospects
There have been many episodes in the past when real rates have been below zero. That is impossible to do when there's deflation, as you can't get interest rates much below zero. So it makes it much harder for the central bank to do anything to stimulate a flagging economy.
Then there is the incentive to delay spending that can come with deflation. If something will be cheaper next year, some people might delay buying it.
Why arent you worried
And whats your GE2015 forecast mine is EICIPM
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TO Big John (from Little John):
Deflation with falling prices chasing falling wages in a vicious cycle would unquestionably be extremely harmful.
But that's not is going to happen now or in the immediate future. Wages are rising and will continue to do so while inflation is going to be negative for a short few months leaving to a modest but real cost of living benefit.
Which simply reaffirms my prediction for May 7th (as it has for all this Parliament) that DCRPM.0 -
That seems to be advising people not to use schemes that are actually illegal.Stereotomy said:
Psst that's why it's not tax avoidance.Anorak said:Weirdly my tax-avoiding behaviour is encouraged (would you believe!) by the government.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/372502/Tempted_by_Tax_Avoidance.pdf
hth
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@JohnLilburne
It never seems to be a priority to governments except at election time.
But there are some distinct problems that they face in trying to get a grip on it, one of which being that the people who frame the original law, then tend to be recruited by those who wish to limit their clients liability.0 -
BJO worried that citizens will have more money to spend as they please - without the state telling them how to use it.bigjohnowls said:Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards
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Tissue Price = Top Poster0
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Never bought Duty Free?bigjohnowls said:tax avoidance is what everybody does
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Richard personal events are a strong factor.richardDodd said:York City..And as I started my working life as a coal miner It must be a unique stance..Having lived most of my formative years under a Labour dominated regime I decided there was only one way out of the dreadful depression they brought to my home town .. Leave..and never vote for them ever.
I was made redundant 3 times, once in the early 80s and twice in the early 90s from those recessions when working in the construction industry.
I had to work abroad away from the family, but was glad to return to the UK.
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I concede on the "imbecile" but for sure Ed knew what he was talking about , Fink's wobbling is concerningCarlottaVance said:
Ed is the one making sweeping statements about tax avoidance - I think "imbecile" a tad harsh...malcolmg said:
Pathetic , same old parrot quote from the Tories , LOL only an imbecile would equate the two.CarlottaVance said:Mr Miliband reacted to Lord Fink's comments by saying: "I think this is a defining moment in David Cameron's leadership of the Conservative Party because it is now revealed that he appointed a treasurer of the Conservative Party who says everyone engages in tax avoidance. I don't think that is the view of most people,
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31438865
That would explain the empty duty free shops at Heathrow then, and the billions not invested in Isas.....0 -
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I think the other problem is that politicians earn quite a lot, and look forward to making a lot of money after retirement. Hardly in their interests to close down schemes that allow wealthy people to avoid paying tax.Smarmeron said:@JohnLilburne
It never seems to be a priority to governments except at election time.
But there are some distinct problems that they face in trying to get a grip on it, one of which being that the people who frame the original law, then tend to be recruited by those who wish to limit their clients liability.
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Rule 1 never threaten to sue for Libel unless you're prepared to go ahead. Lord Fink with all his millions is now damaged goods. In fact it isn't overstating it to say his affairs are going to become an open book.
I can understand why Cameron was never attracted to go into recruitment.
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Peter the Punter has opened his chequebook. Pigs fly etc. etc.
William Hill @sharpeangle
London-based Wm Hill client stakes largest ever General Election wager-£200,000 on Hung Parliament at 2/9- to win £44,444. #GeneralElection0 -
York City..My subsequent career change to being a film cameraman took me away from home for nine months a year for forty years..It allowed me to witness the dead hand of socialism..Labour.from a distance .. sad to say it is still the same..Making everyone equal by whatever means..will not work..simply because we are not..helping out those in need is possible only when the country has a strong economy..simple.0
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Well when i did Economics deflation was a bad thing.TGOHF said:
BJO worried that citizens will have more money to spend as they please - without the state telling them how to use it.bigjohnowls said:Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards
Tory PBers think its great they must be right
As the are about everything.
Especially EICIPM (not)
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BJO seems to think a VAT cut would be terrible as it would cause deflation. Similarly, cheaper oil is apparently a bad thing due to the 1 year impact on inflation figures. When he did Economics, he didn't think about it very seriously it seems.0
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No, Rule 1 is never threaten to sue for Libel unless you can afford to lose an awful lot of money. And then some.Roger said:Rule 1 never threaten to sue for Libel unless you're prepared to go ahead. Lord Fink with all his millions is now damaged goods. In fact it isn't overstating it to say his affairs are going to become an open book.
I can understand why Cameron was never attracted to go into recruitment.
If you can't say 'Yes' to that, or have a wealthy angel to help out or a CFA agreement, all other rules are irrelevant.0 -
When governments of both colours charge up to 20% VAT on a piddling little extension or a repair, but charge no VAT on new housing they encourage tax evasion.CarlottaVance said:This whole tax thing is one of those irregular verbs isn't it?
It's
"legitimate tax planning" when Miliband does it.
"Tax avoidance" when a Labour MP flips principal private residence multiple times and
"Tax evasion" when a Tory, a Tory donor, or someone who ever met a Tory does it....0 -
Deflationary expectations are a bad thing. Windfall falls in price are not. The issue is that the inflation figures are backwards-looking rather than projections.bigjohnowls said:
Well when i did Economics deflation was a bad thing.TGOHF said:
BJO worried that citizens will have more money to spend as they please - without the state telling them how to use it.bigjohnowls said:Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards
Tory PBers think its great they must be right
As the are about everything.
Especially EICIPM (not)
Persistent deflation (for whatever reason) can of course lead to deflationary expectations and then we get an unhelpful spiral (same as with inflation leading to wage demands leading to price increases etc. etc.).
But I don't think we have persistent deflation.0 -
Evening Standard front page is far worse for Tories than anything Ed smeared Tories / Fink with originally. Cameron is currently smashing his head into the nearest brick wall.
Rule in these things, keep your statements concise and clear, and don't go giving wide ranging interviews.
If Fink had just stuck to his I had a Swiss account because I worked in Switzerland, maybe you should ask also Labour donors why they had theirs, thank you and good night, would be a totally different outcome.0 -
Wow! It really is starting to hot up. Out of my league.Tissue_Price said:Peter the Punter has opened his chequebook. Pigs fly etc. etc.
William Hill @sharpeangle
London-based Wm Hill client stakes largest ever General Election wager-£200,000 on Hung Parliament at 2/9- to win £44,444. #GeneralElection
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And yet yesterday the PB Tories were full of sanctimony.OllyT said:I think that for the the Tories to have a Treasurer who says on the record that "we are all tax avoiders" will return to haunt them. Can't see how Labour has come out of this as the loser to be honest.
Ordinary people - the PAYE slaves have had it up to here with tax avoidance; they can see how it's translating into cuts to things they use, like libraries, transport, public toilets, parks and playing fields. Putting across the impression that taxpaying is for the little people is toxic. Anyway, lol at how quickly Fink's bluster was exposed as hot air.0 -
It depends on the reason for deflation. If deflation is driven by collapsing demand, then that's bad news.bigjohnowls said:
Well when i did Economics deflation was a bad thing.TGOHF said:
BJO worried that citizens will have more money to spend as they please - without the state telling them how to use it.bigjohnowls said:Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards
Tory PBers think its great they must be right
As the are about everything.
Especially EICIPM (not)
If it's driven by falling commodity prices, it's good news (in a country that's a net importer of commodities)
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You know best deflation is apparently a wonderful side effect of austerity.maaarsh said:BJO seems to think a VAT cut would be terrible as it would cause deflation. Similarly, cheaper oil is apparently a bad thing due to the 1 year impact on inflation figures. When he did Economics, he didn't think about it very seriously it seems.
Apparently economists still think deflation is bad though.
BOE having to turn on QE tap again.
Tories clearly fixed the economy with their LTEP0 -
You "did Economics", AND the press has been discussing since the oil price collapsed 4 months ago the benign effects of a bit of imported disinflation/deflation, and you still think it's as simple as that?bigjohnowls said:
Well when i did Economics deflation was a bad thing.TGOHF said:
BJO worried that citizens will have more money to spend as they please - without the state telling them how to use it.bigjohnowls said:Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards
Tory PBers think its great they must be right
As the are about everything.
Especially EICIPM (not)
Let me guess: your pension is RPI-linked.
I feel your pain.0 -
Labour are clearly not regarded as whiter than white on issues of sleaze, but this isn't a story that helps the Conservatives.0 -
Personally, I cannot think of a single service that I and my family use that is markedly different from 5 years ago, in either of the 2 places in which we've lived. That includes schools, hospitals, libraries, playgrounds, street cleaning, lighting and maintenance. It must be all happening elsewhere.Monksfield said:
And yet yesterday the PB Tories were full of sanctimony.OllyT said:I think that for the the Tories to have a Treasurer who says on the record that "we are all tax avoiders" will return to haunt them. Can't see how Labour has come out of this as the loser to be honest.
Ordinary people - the PAYE slaves have had it up to here with tax avoidance; they can see how it's translating into cuts to things they use, like libraries, transport, public toilets, parks and playing fields. Putting across the impression that taxpaying is for the little people is toxic. Anyway, lol at how quickly Fink's bluster was exposed as hot air.0 -
So the question I have is: why isn't Labour declaring a policy of changing the law to make these trusts illegal, instead of running a bizarre campaign of branding anyone, however tenuously connected to them, as morally dubious?Anorak said:
Setting up a family trust (per Fisk) is sactioned. 'Government sanctioned' is the same as 'legal', to me at least.Smarmeron said:@Anorak
In your case, it would appear you are getting government sanctioned tax relief.
There are others who decide to create such relief themselves. I know it is hard to distinguish between the two for some, but it is not all that difficult really.
It's not that difficult really, and your attempt at sophistry isn't necessary.
It would be like William Wilberforce naming and shaming those who were friends with those who profited from the slave trade, without once suggesting that the law should be amended to make it illegal.0 -
In theory, I would love to place that bet at those odds. In practice:rottenborough said:
Wow! It really is starting to hot up. Out of my league.Tissue_Price said:Peter the Punter has opened his chequebook. Pigs fly etc. etc.
William Hill @sharpeangle
London-based Wm Hill client stakes largest ever General Election wager-£200,000 on Hung Parliament at 2/9- to win £44,444. #GeneralElection
a) I don't have the balls.
b) My other half would kill me.0 -
Has anyone measured the popularity of European leaders? I'd be very surprised if anyone comes close to Angela Merkel. What wouldn't we give for someone with her quiet assurance and authority in the UK.
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Richard I think you are stretching it a bit to say 1997 to 2007 under Blair was socialism.richardDodd said:York City..My subsequent career change to being a film cameraman took me away from home for nine months a year for forty years..It allowed me to witness the dead hand of socialism..Labour.from a distance .. sad to say it is still the same..Making everyone equal by whatever means..will not work..simply because we are not..helping out those in need is possible only when the country has a strong economy..simple.
That is why I think you are to black and white regarding your comments.
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@antifrank
The even worse outcome might be that your partner has your balls?
(and possibly a blunt rust penknife) ;-)0 -
As ever, people calling the result before the half-time whistle has blown. Miliband has undoubtedly had the better of the exchanges today, principally because of the careless "everybody does it" line by Fink but also because Miliband has been ably assisted by the media choosing to put more emphasis on Fink's apparent u-turn than Miliband's arguably more significant one. But that could change in one interview, if the right journalist is prepared to push the point. Or if a journalist uncovers the various forms of lawful tax avoidance senior Labour ministers, MPs and donors have no doubt engaged in. Or if Cameron comes out and publicly disagrees with Fink, acknowledging that not everybody does it and explaining to people how this all works, like a proper grown up.
But as it stands, advantage Labour. And they may extend their advantage if they can keep this topic live for the next few days. I rather suspect Greece will knock it off the airwaves, but let's see. At any rate I suspect it has energised the Labour base and maybe rallied a few of the soft Lib Dems/Greens.
At least we are not talking about that pink bus...
IPSOS-Mori poll unexciting. Fundamental issues still the same. The big question is to what extent dislike of a Tory government will drive left-leaning voters to Labour irrespective of Miliband's manifest inadequacy.0 -
Like the failing economy or the failing NHS or rising Immigration.JohnO said:
Yes, no doubt about that. Time to try and shift the 'narrative' to stronger ground.Sean_F said:
Labour are clearly not regarded as whiter than white on issues of sleaze, but this isn't a story that helps the Conservatives.
There is no strong ground its made of quicksand
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Reality check time for the PB Tories. Outfoxed, outmanoeuvred, out thought.
Move on.0 -
Should have paid more attention then. See Sean_F below....bigjohnowls said:
Well when i did Economics deflation was a bad thing.TGOHF said:
BJO worried that citizens will have more money to spend as they please - without the state telling them how to use it.bigjohnowls said:Really tonights deflation is good and tax avoidance is what everybody does
No wonder EICIPM is on the cards0 -
Just read the Standard's coverage on the way home. It is simply embarrassing for Fink0
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Indeed but at least latest polls looking good.TheLastBobaFett said:Reality check time for the PB Tories. Outfoxed, outmanoeuvred, out thought.
Move on.
What was latest Ipsos Mori
And where is Audreys amazing findings0 -
Clearly you don't live in Shropshire. Our library, public toilet, park, youth service and playing fields are all being got rid of by Shropshire Council. The parish is expected to take them on (minus any proper funding as they're all going to be delivered by volunteer fairies) at the same time the Tory council is withholding the council tax support grant (despite crocodile tears from the Tory minister). Meanwhile our parish can't even get answers to basic questions about the running costs associated with the transfer of these 'assets'. It's called the big society. I call it a wrecking agenda being driven by fantasists with rank incompetence.TheWatcher said:
Personally, I cannot think of a single service that I and my family use that is markedly different from 5 years ago, in either of the 2 places in which we've lived. That includes schools, hospitals, libraries, playgrounds, street cleaning, lighting and maintenance. It must be all happening elsewhere.Monksfield said:
And yet yesterday the PB Tories were full of sanctimony.OllyT said:I think that for the the Tories to have a Treasurer who says on the record that "we are all tax avoiders" will return to haunt them. Can't see how Labour has come out of this as the loser to be honest.
Ordinary people - the PAYE slaves have had it up to here with tax avoidance; they can see how it's translating into cuts to things they use, like libraries, transport, public toilets, parks and playing fields. Putting across the impression that taxpaying is for the little people is toxic. Anyway, lol at how quickly Fink's bluster was exposed as hot air.0 -
More silliness from youbigjohnowls said:
You know best deflation is apparently a wonderful side effect of austerity.maaarsh said:BJO seems to think a VAT cut would be terrible as it would cause deflation. Similarly, cheaper oil is apparently a bad thing due to the 1 year impact on inflation figures. When he did Economics, he didn't think about it very seriously it seems.
Apparently economists still think deflation is bad though.
BOE having to turn on QE tap again.
Tories clearly fixed the economy with their LTEP
This economist
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002074.html#more
says
''Did the deflation of the 19th century inhibit economic growth? I only have numbers going back to 1830 – the Bank of England’s “three centuries of data” series - but they show that real gross domestic product in 1900 was more than four times its level 70 years earlier. Mostly it was good deflation.''
''Good deflation arises from a favourable international price shock, the kind we are seeing with the sharp fall in the price of oil and other commodities. Bad deflation arises from weak demand.''
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Tory lead, every age group from 35+, every socio-economic group except DE.Flockers_pb said:IPSOS-Mori poll unexciting.
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York City..There were some bright periods over that time..particularly when Maggie came in and started to sort out the stupid Marxists..and as a shop steward for some of that time..I could only agree with what she was attempting to do..Now I live abroad..make my money where I can and am relieved that I will not have to live in the UK under a Miliband regime. I hope it works out for you.0
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That's not tax avoidance, that's tax planning.Anorak said:I am a tax avoider.
I get childcare vouchers, paid for by a deduction from my salary before it's taxed. This is not a trivial matter of avoiding duty on a bottle of gin, this is thousands of pounds. It is not like a pension, which I'd say is deferred taxation, not avoided taxation.
Is that wrong? Is it moral? Weirdly my tax-avoiding behaviour is encouraged (would you believe!) by the government.0 -
Only if you lost.antifrank said:
In theory, I would love to place that bet at those odds. In practice:rottenborough said:
Wow! It really is starting to hot up. Out of my league.Tissue_Price said:Peter the Punter has opened his chequebook. Pigs fly etc. etc.
William Hill @sharpeangle
London-based Wm Hill client stakes largest ever General Election wager-£200,000 on Hung Parliament at 2/9- to win £44,444. #GeneralElection
a) I don't have the balls.
b) My other half would kill me.0 -
"good deflation good tax avoidance good nhs waiting times good immigration figuresFlightpath said:
More silliness from youbigjohnowls said:
You know best deflation is apparently a wonderful side effect of austerity.maaarsh said:BJO seems to think a VAT cut would be terrible as it would cause deflation. Similarly, cheaper oil is apparently a bad thing due to the 1 year impact on inflation figures. When he did Economics, he didn't think about it very seriously it seems.
Apparently economists still think deflation is bad though.
BOE having to turn on QE tap again.
Tories clearly fixed the economy with their LTEP
This economist
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002074.html#more
says
''Did the deflation of the 19th century inhibit economic growth? I only have numbers going back to 1830 – the Bank of England’s “three centuries of data” series - but they show that real gross domestic product in 1900 was more than four times its level 70 years earlier. Mostly it was good deflation.''
''Good deflation arises from a favourable international price shock, the kind we are seeing with the sharp fall in the price of oil and other commodities. Bad deflation arises from weak demand.''
Only in PB Tory dreamland
Less than 12 weeks to go to see if electorate agree
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Murdoch is a busted flush in terms of having any political credibility in this countrynigel4england said:
Murdoch has an sharp axe to grind with Ed, I find it difficult to believe he will pass up an opportunity to make life difficult for him. To begin with get Hodge and Stemcor's arrangements into the spotlight.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am afraid I don't agree. Across the media industry, they are up to their necks in "tax efficiency planning", so it is like phone hacking, nobody is going to rock the boat.nigel4england said:
That'll be the same Guardian that are based in the Cayman Islands, the ones who rely on hedge funds to keep afloat. And the same BBC that encouraged their stars and employees to be self employed to avoid the poor old BBC having to pay NI etcFrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure the Guardian / BBC have plenty more helpful stuff ready when we get closer to election time. Even on the swiss tax dodging, 1100+ high value individuals on the list, we have only seen a few names released so far....TheWatcher said:
Oh dear, they're playing by the same rules? What a shame.Richard_Nabavi said:
Presumably all those Labour supporters who told us it was OK for Ed to smear Lord Fink by association will be happy that the Mail is doing the same to Ed, albeit in the Mail's case based on believing what a respected BBC reporter reported.Pulpstar said:This Nick Robinson/Milly Dowler thing is interesting...
Nick Robinson's blog:
"The Labour leader's aides say that he sees this as another Milly Dowler moment"
Nick Robinson's clarification:
Calm down Twitter. I did not quote anyone re Ed M & Milly Dowler. Said his aides saw this as moment like that ie to stand up to powerful
This appears to be a misunderstanding. No-one in Labour used the phrase ‘Milly Dowler moment’.
Now the Daily Mail is running with:
"Ed Miliband believes his row over 'dodgy' Tory donors avoiding tax is a 'Millie Dowler moment' where he can stand up for the public against the rich and powerful, his aides have revealed."
We were always in for a very dirty election campaign; even more so now.
It will get dirty but I have a feeling that this time the unbelievably hypocritical Left will come unstuck.0 -
O have we not had Audrey's algorithms yet? How disappointing.bigjohnowls said:
Indeed but at least latest polls looking good.TheLastBobaFett said:Reality check time for the PB Tories. Outfoxed, outmanoeuvred, out thought.
Move on.
What was latest Ipsos Mori
And where is Audreys amazing findings
While we are waiting, that pension - RPI-linked - yes/no?0 -
Interesting article,
It isn't directly about the bank scandal, but about Le Monde who are also publishing the stories.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/12/hsbc-tax-le-monde-publish-names-wealthy-clients-tax0 -
No and NoIshmael_X said:
O have we not had Audrey's algorithms yet? How disappointing.bigjohnowls said:
Indeed but at least latest polls looking good.TheLastBobaFett said:Reality check time for the PB Tories. Outfoxed, outmanoeuvred, out thought.
Move on.
What was latest Ipsos Mori
And where is Audreys amazing findings
While we are waiting, that pension - RPI-linked - yes/no?
0 -
The Labour leader also defended his own tax arrangements concerning his house, referring to a deed of variation, a tax efficient arrangement that allowed him and his brother, David, to take a share of their family home in Primrose Hill, north London after his father’s death in 1994.
He said: “This is something my mother did 20 years ago - a decision she made. I pay tax as a result on that transaction and I have avoided paying no tax. No doubt the Conservative party wants to smear mud but frankly it is not going to work. The story has been written before and I pay tax on that money.”
0 -
really ? so why do lefties spend so much time on him ?OllyT said:
Murdoch is a busted flush in terms of having any political credibility in this countrynigel4england said:
Murdoch has an sharp axe to grind with Ed, I find it difficult to believe he will pass up an opportunity to make life difficult for him. To begin with get Hodge and Stemcor's arrangements into the spotlight.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am afraid I don't agree. Across the media industry, they are up to their necks in "tax efficiency planning", so it is like phone hacking, nobody is going to rock the boat.nigel4england said:
That'll be the same Guardian that are based in the Cayman Islands, the ones who rely on hedge funds to keep afloat. And the same BBC that encouraged their stars and employees to be self employed to avoid the poor old BBC having to pay NI etcFrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure the Guardian / BBC have plenty more helpful stuff ready when we get closer to election time. Even on the swiss tax dodging, 1100+ high value individuals on the list, we have only seen a few names released so far....TheWatcher said:
Oh dear, they're playing by the same rules? What a shame.Richard_Nabavi said:
Presumably all those Labour supporters who told us it was OK for Ed to smear Lord Fink by association will be happy that the Mail is doing the same to Ed, albeit in the Mail's case based on believing what a respected BBC reporter reported.Pulpstar said:This Nick Robinson/Milly Dowler thing is interesting...
Nick Robinson's blog:
"The Labour leader's aides say that he sees this as another Milly Dowler moment"
Nick Robinson's clarification:
Calm down Twitter. I did not quote anyone re Ed M & Milly Dowler. Said his aides saw this as moment like that ie to stand up to powerful
This appears to be a misunderstanding. No-one in Labour used the phrase ‘Milly Dowler moment’.
Now the Daily Mail is running with:
"Ed Miliband believes his row over 'dodgy' Tory donors avoiding tax is a 'Millie Dowler moment' where he can stand up for the public against the rich and powerful, his aides have revealed."
We were always in for a very dirty election campaign; even more so now.
It will get dirty but I have a feeling that this time the unbelievably hypocritical Left will come unstuck.0 -
Fair enough except we all know that the Tories need a good lead to come out ahead on seats never mind win a majority and with about 12 weeks to go there is not much sign of it happening. I accept it might happen, but equally it might not.rottenborough said:
I think Tory strategists will be reasonable calm with these figures. Three months out and the opposition can only pull a point or two ahead.OllyT said:
Quite amusing watching the Tory PBers getting in a lather about the upcoming "corker" of a poll only to find it has Labour ahead on 36%. Funny how now they seem to want to talk about something else (in fact anything else, except perhaps Lord Fink and HSBC!).BenM said:
And Ipsos Mori came out showing Labour's share remaining more than solid.Speedy said:Summary of the day:
Ed Miliband chose to fight publicly a Tory donor over alleged tax evasion in the middle of a big tax evasion scandal, and won!
It might make an effect on the left (SNP, GRN wise), but it surely will make an impression in the media world who until now they have branded him a loser.
The Tories are damaged.
A good day all round for Ed.0 -
At the moment, falling prices are caused by a big drop in oil prices. That's very good news for anyone who buys petrol. Effectively, that's putting more money into their pockets, which boosts demand in turn.bigjohnowls said:
"good deflation good tax avoidance good nhs waiting times good immigration figuresFlightpath said:
More silliness from youbigjohnowls said:
You know best deflation is apparently a wonderful side effect of austerity.maaarsh said:BJO seems to think a VAT cut would be terrible as it would cause deflation. Similarly, cheaper oil is apparently a bad thing due to the 1 year impact on inflation figures. When he did Economics, he didn't think about it very seriously it seems.
Apparently economists still think deflation is bad though.
BOE having to turn on QE tap again.
Tories clearly fixed the economy with their LTEP
This economist
http://www.economicsuk.com/blog/002074.html#more
says
''Did the deflation of the 19th century inhibit economic growth? I only have numbers going back to 1830 – the Bank of England’s “three centuries of data” series - but they show that real gross domestic product in 1900 was more than four times its level 70 years earlier. Mostly it was good deflation.''
''Good deflation arises from a favourable international price shock, the kind we are seeing with the sharp fall in the price of oil and other commodities. Bad deflation arises from weak demand.''
Only in PB Tory dreamland
Less than 12 weeks to go to see if electorate agree
The economy is the big issue that Labour have to steer clear of, because people think that this government's record is better than Labour's.
0 -
If you want to persist with propaganda fine, but Miliband has withdrawn his comment saying Fink was dodgy. The Labour party up to their smeary tricks again.Roger said:Rule 1 never threaten to sue for Libel unless you're prepared to go ahead. Lord Fink with all his millions is now damaged goods. In fact it isn't overstating it to say his affairs are going to become an open book.
I can understand why Cameron was never attracted to go into recruitment.
0 -
Its payback time!Alanbrooke said:
really ? so why do lefties spend so much time on him ?OllyT said:
Murdoch is a busted flush in terms of having any political credibility in this countrynigel4england said:
Murdoch has an sharp axe to grind with Ed, I find it difficult to believe he will pass up an opportunity to make life difficult for him. To begin with get Hodge and Stemcor's arrangements into the spotlight.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am afraid I don't agree. Across the media industry, they are up to their necks in "tax efficiency planning", so it is like phone hacking, nobody is going to rock the boat.nigel4england said:
That'll be the same Guardian that are based in the Cayman Islands, the ones who rely on hedge funds to keep afloat. And the same BBC that encouraged their stars and employees to be self employed to avoid the poor old BBC having to pay NI etcFrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure the Guardian / BBC have plenty more helpful stuff ready when we get closer to election time. Even on the swiss tax dodging, 1100+ high value individuals on the list, we have only seen a few names released so far....TheWatcher said:
Oh dear, they're playing by the same rules? What a shame.Richard_Nabavi said:
Presumably all those Labour supporters who told us it was OK for Ed to smear Lord Fink by association will be happy that the Mail is doing the same to Ed, albeit in the Mail's case based on believing what a respected BBC reporter reported.Pulpstar said:This Nick Robinson/Milly Dowler thing is interesting...
Nick Robinson's blog:
"The Labour leader's aides say that he sees this as another Milly Dowler moment"
Nick Robinson's clarification:
Calm down Twitter. I did not quote anyone re Ed M & Milly Dowler. Said his aides saw this as moment like that ie to stand up to powerful
This appears to be a misunderstanding. No-one in Labour used the phrase ‘Milly Dowler moment’.
Now the Daily Mail is running with:
"Ed Miliband believes his row over 'dodgy' Tory donors avoiding tax is a 'Millie Dowler moment' where he can stand up for the public against the rich and powerful, his aides have revealed."
We were always in for a very dirty election campaign; even more so now.
It will get dirty but I have a feeling that this time the unbelievably hypocritical Left will come unstuck.0 -
He avoided a very large future Inheritance Tax charge, albeit in a manner that is legitimate.chestnut said:The Labour leader also defended his own tax arrangements concerning his house, referring to a deed of variation, a tax efficient arrangement that allowed him and his brother, David, to take a share of their family home in Primrose Hill, north London after his father’s death in 1994.
He said: “This is something my mother did 20 years ago - a decision she made. I pay tax as a result on that transaction and I have avoided paying no tax. No doubt the Conservative party wants to smear mud but frankly it is not going to work. The story has been written before and I pay tax on that money.”
0 -
Fink has not covered DC in glory as I'm sure he's probably being informed by Tory HQ but the sanctimony about tax avoidance from some quarters is amazing.
Duty free, ISA's, Premium Bonds, putting money in a pension (what utter sociopathic rotters they are!) choosing a company car with lower CO2 emissions, giving the grand kids some gifts before you pop your clogs: all tax avoidance. So is buying a house at exactly £250,000 as opposed to £250,001 ( pre budget)
Depending on where you feel like drawing the line is not smoking tax avoidance? Or drinking cider not beer as it's got lesser duty? Checked the window cleaner's tax return since you and everyone else who is sane pays him in cash?
So yes just about everyone does it.0 -
Oh, well something to look forward to thenbigjohnowls said:
No and NoIshmael_X said:
O have we not had Audrey's algorithms yet? How disappointing.bigjohnowls said:
Indeed but at least latest polls looking good.TheLastBobaFett said:Reality check time for the PB Tories. Outfoxed, outmanoeuvred, out thought.
Move on.
What was latest Ipsos Mori
And where is Audreys amazing findings
While we are waiting, that pension - RPI-linked - yes/no?
CPI-linked?
0 -
Thanks Richard
I will be staying in the UK whoever wins.
To be honest it will not matter to me either way, as I do not rate any of the current leaders of the main parties.
None of them are being honest regarding how to deal with the deficit.
I imagine that is the same where you live .0 -
@Sean_F
While I agree that the inflation figures are down because of the falling oil price, it may not give the usual "kick" to an economy coming out of recession.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-314084490 -
If ever that theory was going to be tested to destruction, then it will be the next 12 weeks.OllyT said:
Murdoch is a busted flush in terms of having any political credibility in this countrynigel4england said:
Murdoch has an sharp axe to grind with Ed, I find it difficult to believe he will pass up an opportunity to make life difficult for him. To begin with get Hodge and Stemcor's arrangements into the spotlight.FrancisUrquhart said:
I am afraid I don't agree. Across the media industry, they are up to their necks in "tax efficiency planning", so it is like phone hacking, nobody is going to rock the boat.nigel4england said:
That'll be the same Guardian that are based in the Cayman Islands, the ones who rely on hedge funds to keep afloat. And the same BBC that encouraged their stars and employees to be self employed to avoid the poor old BBC having to pay NI etcFrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure the Guardian / BBC have plenty more helpful stuff ready when we get closer to election time. Even on the swiss tax dodging, 1100+ high value individuals on the list, we have only seen a few names released so far....TheWatcher said:
Oh dear, they're playing by the same rules? What a shame.Richard_Nabavi said:
Presumably all those Labour supporters who told us it was OK for Ed to smear Lord Fink by association will be happy that the Mail is doing the same to Ed, albeit in the Mail's case based on believing what a respected BBC reporter reported.Pulpstar said:This Nick Robinson/Milly Dowler thing is interesting...
Nick Robinson's blog:
"The Labour leader's aides say that he sees this as another Milly Dowler moment"
Nick Robinson's clarification:
Calm down Twitter. I did not quote anyone re Ed M & Milly Dowler. Said his aides saw this as moment like that ie to stand up to powerful
This appears to be a misunderstanding. No-one in Labour used the phrase ‘Milly Dowler moment’.
Now the Daily Mail is running with:
"Ed Miliband believes his row over 'dodgy' Tory donors avoiding tax is a 'Millie Dowler moment' where he can stand up for the public against the rich and powerful, his aides have revealed."
We were always in for a very dirty election campaign; even more so now.
It will get dirty but I have a feeling that this time the unbelievably hypocritical Left will come unstuck.
You better hope you're right. Because if not, a shit-storm of truly Biblical proportions is heading Ed's way....
0 -
Everyone does it, but it still doesn't sound good, coming from a multi-millionaire.welshowl said:Fink has not covered DC in glory as I'm sure he's probably being informed by Tory HQ but the sanctimony about tax avoidance from some quarters is amazing.
Duty free, ISA's, Premium Bonds, putting money in a pension (what utter sociopathic rotters they are!) choosing a company car with lower CO2 emissions, giving the grand kids some gifts before you pop your clogs: all tax avoidance. So is buying a house at exactly £250,000 as opposed to £250,001 ( pre budget)
Depending on where you feel like drawing the line is not smoking tax avoidance? Or drinking cider not beer as it's got lesser duty? Checked the window cleaner's tax return since you and everyone else who is sane pays him in cash?
So yes just about everyone does it.
0 -
You've clearly not had too many dealings with Ulstermen.rottenborough said:
Only if you lost.antifrank said:
In theory, I would love to place that bet at those odds. In practice:rottenborough said:
Wow! It really is starting to hot up. Out of my league.Tissue_Price said:Peter the Punter has opened his chequebook. Pigs fly etc. etc.
William Hill @sharpeangle
London-based Wm Hill client stakes largest ever General Election wager-£200,000 on Hung Parliament at 2/9- to win £44,444. #GeneralElection
a) I don't have the balls.
b) My other half would kill me.0 -
Careful, you'll get Rod back effing and blinding at anyone who can't accept they made a deed of variation for no other reason than that they enjoy spending time with lawyersSean_F said:
He avoided a very large future Inheritance Tax charge, albeit in a manner that is legitimate.chestnut said:The Labour leader also defended his own tax arrangements concerning his house, referring to a deed of variation, a tax efficient arrangement that allowed him and his brother, David, to take a share of their family home in Primrose Hill, north London after his father’s death in 1994.
He said: “This is something my mother did 20 years ago - a decision she made. I pay tax as a result on that transaction and I have avoided paying no tax. No doubt the Conservative party wants to smear mud but frankly it is not going to work. The story has been written before and I pay tax on that money.”
0 -
Quite. He's right but he's not the person to have said it.Sean_F said:
Everyone does it, but it still doesn't sound good, coming from a multi-millionaire.welshowl said:Fink has not covered DC in glory as I'm sure he's probably being informed by Tory HQ but the sanctimony about tax avoidance from some quarters is amazing.
Duty free, ISA's, Premium Bonds, putting money in a pension (what utter sociopathic rotters they are!) choosing a company car with lower CO2 emissions, giving the grand kids some gifts before you pop your clogs: all tax avoidance. So is buying a house at exactly £250,000 as opposed to £250,001 ( pre budget)
Depending on where you feel like drawing the line is not smoking tax avoidance? Or drinking cider not beer as it's got lesser duty? Checked the window cleaner's tax return since you and everyone else who is sane pays him in cash?
So yes just about everyone does it.0 -
But it is linked to CPI.bigjohnowls said:
No and NoIshmael_X said:
O have we not had Audrey's algorithms yet? How disappointing.bigjohnowls said:
Indeed but at least latest polls looking good.TheLastBobaFett said:Reality check time for the PB Tories. Outfoxed, outmanoeuvred, out thought.
Move on.
What was latest Ipsos Mori
And where is Audreys amazing findings
While we are waiting, that pension - RPI-linked - yes/no?0 -
Very true but the PB Tories are desperately trying to equate having an ISA with squirrelling millions away in unnumbered Swiss bank accounts, nobody is really buying it but they have been banging the same drum all dayAlistair said:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/364009/4382_Measuring_Tax_Gaps_2014_IW_v4B_accessible_20141014.pdf
Tax avoidance is not the same as legitimate tax planning. Legitimate tax planning involves
using tax reliefs for the purpose for which they were intended. For example, claiming
tax relief on capital investment, saving in a tax-exempt ISA or saving for retirement by
making contributions to a pension scheme are all legitimate forms of tax planning0 -
Fink's letter to Milipede was very clear. He had a job in Switzerland and needed a local account to pay for his groceries. He should have stopped there.FrancisUrquhart said:Evening Standard front page is far worse for Tories than anything Ed smeared Tories / Fink with originally. Cameron is currently smashing his head into the nearest brick wall.
Rule in these things, keep your statements concise and clear, and don't go giving wide ranging interviews.
If Fink had just stuck to his I had a Swiss account because I worked in Switzerland, maybe you should ask also Labour donors why they had theirs, thank you and good night, would be a totally different outcome.
0 -
Apologies if posted before.
I warn you not to click on this link, I'm going to need years of therapy, I shall spend the rest of my life, writing on walls with my feet.
13 Terrible Bits Of Writing In “Fifty Shades Of Grey” Illustrated with pictures of politicians, obviously.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/13-powerfully-erotic-lines-from-50-shades-of-grey#.pqRn2JxVk0 -
Utter drivel !welshowl said:Fink has not covered DC in glory as I'm sure he's probably being informed by Tory HQ but the sanctimony about tax avoidance from some quarters is amazing.
Duty free, ISA's, Premium Bonds, putting money in a pension (what utter sociopathic rotters they are!) choosing a company car with lower CO2 emissions, giving the grand kids some gifts before you pop your clogs: all tax avoidance. So is buying a house at exactly £250,000 as opposed to £250,001 ( pre budget)
Depending on where you feel like drawing the line is not smoking tax avoidance? Or drinking cider not beer as it's got lesser duty? Checked the window cleaner's tax return since you and everyone else who is sane pays him in cash?
So yes just about everyone does it.
Anything which Parliament intended, right or wrong, is NOT tax avoidance. Using your tax allowance, using ISA, putting money in your own pension, using various allowances including husbands and wives maximising allowances , even using certain trusts which Parliament specifically created.
Tax avoidance is making use of "constructions" which Parliament did not intend [ nobody intended until some Accountant came up with it ].0 -
It is something that has been routinely recommended by the Consumers Association now Which? in their various handbooks and articles - which is why I happen to know about deeds of variation. IT is also something any decent lawyer would recommend to a bereaved family.TheWatcher said:
I think that unless they had prior knowledge, most would put Deed of Family Arrangement in the latter category. How many people know about them? I didn't until the Miliband story broke, and Old Man Watcher was a lawyer who probably drew them up.Sean_F said:Ed Milliband v Lord Fink is not a big political issue, and won't switch many votes one way or the other, but I think it's pointless to argue that rows about tax avoidance are ever going to be good for the Conservatives
It may be hypocritical, but most people draw a very clear distinction between ISA's, booze cruises, Deeds of Family Arrangement, etc. and the more complicated forms of tax planning.
Changing the terms of a will after someone's death would sound very fishy to your average Joe, regardless of it's legality.
Just because many people can't be bothered to put professional subscriptions down on their tax returns doesn't make it tax evasion for those who can be ersed to spend a few moments to fill in the form.
0 -
That is darkly brilliant. I shudder at the mind which would think to put those two things together, and then did so.TheScreamingEagles said:Apologies if posted before.
I warn you not to click on this link, I'm going to need years of therapy, I shall spend the rest of my life, writing on walls with my feet.
13 Terrible Bits Of Writing In “Fifty Shades Of Grey” Illustrated with pictures of politicians, obviously.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/13-powerfully-erotic-lines-from-50-shades-of-grey#.pqRn2JxVk
0 -
Doubtless you are right but I doubt the average Joe on the street sees it like that. To me tax "avoidance" is things like ISA's ( however wrong I in fact am!) That said the Tories cannot win this one and Ed is winning here.surbiton said:
Utter drivel !welshowl said:Fink has not covered DC in glory as I'm sure he's probably being informed by Tory HQ but the sanctimony about tax avoidance from some quarters is amazing.
Duty free, ISA's, Premium Bonds, putting money in a pension (what utter sociopathic rotters they are!) choosing a company car with lower CO2 emissions, giving the grand kids some gifts before you pop your clogs: all tax avoidance. So is buying a house at exactly £250,000 as opposed to £250,001 ( pre budget)
Depending on where you feel like drawing the line is not smoking tax avoidance? Or drinking cider not beer as it's got lesser duty? Checked the window cleaner's tax return since you and everyone else who is sane pays him in cash?
So yes just about everyone does it.
Anything which Parliament intended, right or wrong, is NOT tax avoidance. Using your tax allowance, using ISA, putting money in your own pension, using various allowances including husbands and wives maximising allowances , even using certain trusts which Parliament specifically created.
Tax avoidance is making use of "constructions" which Parliament did not intend [ nobody intended until some Accountant came up with it ].0 -
I don't think that distinction is so clear cut.surbiton said:
Utter drivel !welshowl said:Fink has not covered DC in glory as I'm sure he's probably being informed by Tory HQ but the sanctimony about tax avoidance from some quarters is amazing.
Duty free, ISA's, Premium Bonds, putting money in a pension (what utter sociopathic rotters they are!) choosing a company car with lower CO2 emissions, giving the grand kids some gifts before you pop your clogs: all tax avoidance. So is buying a house at exactly £250,000 as opposed to £250,001 ( pre budget)
Depending on where you feel like drawing the line is not smoking tax avoidance? Or drinking cider not beer as it's got lesser duty? Checked the window cleaner's tax return since you and everyone else who is sane pays him in cash?
So yes just about everyone does it.
Anything which Parliament intended, right or wrong, is NOT tax avoidance. Using your tax allowance, using ISA, putting money in your own pension, using various allowances including husbands and wives maximising allowances , even using certain trusts which Parliament specifically created.
Tax avoidance is making use of "constructions" which Parliament did not intend [ nobody intended until some Accountant came up with it ].
It is possible for a lot of people to reduce their tax bills hugely, by taking advantage of all sorts of pieces of legislation which Parliament intended to be taken advantage of.
I'll give you some examples:-
1. If you run a business from home, you can claim a proportion of all the expenses of running that home (eg mortgage, utilities, ) as allowable business expenses. If you purchase your car through that business, you can depreciate it each year, and claim repairs, road tax, etc. as business expenses.
2. If you're a higher rate taxpayer with your own business, with a spouse who pays the basic rate, then employ that spouse and pay him/her a salary. That reduces the amount of your own income that's taxed at the higher rate.
3. If you own a company, and have a house, borrow against your house to purchase premises for your company. Those premises will attract 100% business property relief for IHT purposes, and the net value of your home will be reduced for IHT purposes.
0 -
Very true but the PB Tories are desperately trying to equate having an ISA with squirrelling millions away in unnumbered Swiss bank accounts,
The left's allegations are based on emotion and not fact and use language littered with imprecise idioms like 'dodgy' and 'squirrelling away'
0 -
Unlike the line peddled by Roger, Fink has admitted nothing. It's Miliband who refused to repeat what he said in the commons and he has admitted that Fink is not 'dodgy'. It's Miliband whose aids admit he wants to equate the issue to the Millie Dowler affair. You would have thought that trying to weaponise the NHS would have been low enough for them, but no.Yorkcity said:
Roger to be fair to Jimmy Carr he took a lot of stick on 8 out of 10 cats on channel 4 week in week out.Roger said:Oh dear! Fink admits everything. It was quite inevitable. Vanilla avoidance indeed. If the Mail and The Times can humiliate Jimmy Carr and Gary Barlow they can do the same to Cameron's advisers. It's time for Ed to let them have both barrels. Vanilla barrels of course....
0 -
If, if, if Ed Miliband manages to claw himself over the finishing line and becomes Prime Minister, this sycophantic nonsense from Peter Oborne will be well worth re-visiting;
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9438172/ed-milibands-biggest-critics-dont-hate-him-for-how-hes-failed-they-hate-him-for-how-hes-succeeded/
Reminds me of the weird Brown-love we saw from the like's of Oborne and Heffer in 2007.
0 -
York City..Personally I do not give a shit..at my age I certainly live for the day..always have really..and I treat every day with the same enthusiasm..I see no reason why a human being should have to work all of his,her life and just give taxes to the government of the day..what is the point.
It is time people took responsibility for their own lives and expectations..this is probably an alien concept to you and your socialist buddies.... but it actually represents a form of freedom.0 -
OllyT said:
Very true but the PB Tories are desperately trying to equate having an ISA with squirrelling millions away in unnumbered Swiss bank accounts, nobody is really buying it but they have been banging the same drum all dayAlistair said:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/364009/4382_Measuring_Tax_Gaps_2014_IW_v4B_accessible_20141014.pdf
Tax avoidance is not the same as legitimate tax planning. Legitimate tax planning involves
using tax reliefs for the purpose for which they were intended. For example, claiming
tax relief on capital investment, saving in a tax-exempt ISA or saving for retirement by
making contributions to a pension scheme are all legitimate forms of tax planning
LOL. What is an unnumbered Swiss bank account?
0 -
Flightpath
"If you want to persist with propaganda fine, but Miliband has withdrawn his comment saying Fink was dodgy. The Labour party up to their smeary tricks again."
Actually Ed's being far too kind to Lord Fink. I read the article in the Standard. I was taken by his organizing his family trusts from a Swiss bank account which he described as being at the mild end. You really couldn't make these people up could you?0 -
A Swiss bank manager's nightmare?MarkHopkins said:OllyT said:
Very true but the PB Tories are desperately trying to equate having an ISA with squirrelling millions away in unnumbered Swiss bank accounts, nobody is really buying it but they have been banging the same drum all dayAlistair said:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/364009/4382_Measuring_Tax_Gaps_2014_IW_v4B_accessible_20141014.pdf
Tax avoidance is not the same as legitimate tax planning. Legitimate tax planning involves
using tax reliefs for the purpose for which they were intended. For example, claiming
tax relief on capital investment, saving in a tax-exempt ISA or saving for retirement by
making contributions to a pension scheme are all legitimate forms of tax planning
LOL. What is an unnumbered Swiss bank account?0 -
Tim Montgomerie on the shifting mood away from austerity
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4351748.ece0 -
Unnumbered bank accounts are for the sole use of the lizards (they mark them by scent)
0 -
Remember, Oborne is consumed by a pathological hatred of Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell. Everything he writes must be seen in that context. Miliband has vaguely distanced himself from New Labour and was once an underling of Gordon Brown, Blair's sworn enemy. In Oborne's eyes, that alone is enough for canonization.GIN1138 said:If, if, if Ed Miliband manages to claw himself over the finishing line and becomes Prime Minister, this sycophantic nonsense from Peter Oborne will be well worth re-visiting;
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9438172/ed-milibands-biggest-critics-dont-hate-him-for-how-hes-failed-they-hate-him-for-how-hes-succeeded/
Reminds me of the weird Brown-love we saw from the like's of Oborne and Heffer in 2007.0 -
Tim Montgomerie on the shifting mood away from austerity
Negotiating with the economic terrorists of Greece is a huge error. And the longer it goes on, the worse it will be
The people of Greece have voted to move away from austerity. Fine. Here's your own currency, now get on with it.
You will quickly see that for you,austerity hasn't ended.
It has just begun.0 -
Well a numbered Swiss Bank account is one with a number but no name, so only the bank and the client know whose it is.RobD said:
A Swiss bank manager's nightmare?MarkHopkins said:OllyT said:
Very true but the PB Tories are desperately trying to equate having an ISA with squirrelling millions away in unnumbered Swiss bank accounts, nobody is really buying it but they have been banging the same drum all dayAlistair said:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/364009/4382_Measuring_Tax_Gaps_2014_IW_v4B_accessible_20141014.pdf
Tax avoidance is not the same as legitimate tax planning. Legitimate tax planning involves
using tax reliefs for the purpose for which they were intended. For example, claiming
tax relief on capital investment, saving in a tax-exempt ISA or saving for retirement by
making contributions to a pension scheme are all legitimate forms of tax planning
LOL. What is an unnumbered Swiss bank account?
I guess an unnumbered one must therefore be one without even a number, so nobody knows whose it is.
Cunning.0 -
Absurd hyperbole from Labour supportersCarlottaVance said:Mr Miliband reacted to Lord Fink's comments by saying: "I think this is a defining moment in David Cameron's leadership of the Conservative Party because it is now revealed that he appointed a treasurer of the Conservative Party who says everyone engages in tax avoidance. I don't think that is the view of most people,
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31438865
That would explain the empty duty free shops at Heathrow then, and the billions not invested in Isas.....
Even the Independent despite its perjorative headline quotes
'Lord Fink said his tax planning had been at the “vanilla” or “mild” end of the spectrum and he had rejected advice to take more “aggressive” action to cut his tax bill.
“I chose the mildest end of the spectrum that I was advised on,” '
Still I suppose the headline, ''Lord Fink not an aggressive tax avoider'' does not have the same cachet for Russian owned Labour supporting press.
0
