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  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183

    Brixian59 said:

    On Badenoch,
    Her net favourability is now around or better than Farages generally but with more 'DKs' and therefore fewer of both positive 'favourable' and negative 'unfavourable'.
    If she can get her positive 'favourable' above Farages that is when id expect Tory polling to approach Reforms (although the party lag her a bit)

    Oh dear god
    What do you disagree with? (The post is an analysis not a prediction)
    See my later pist

    She won't stand up to scrutiny

    She is fundamentally dishonest
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891

    I wonder why Blair And Campbell have been silent.

    Bad Al has his own legal and financial problems.
    Given they are making squillions from centrist dad podcast he can't be sort of a bob or two?
    From late last year.

    Police make arrest over collapse of Alastair Campbell son’s football betting fund

    Rory Campbell launched the fund in 2017, vowing to beat the bookies with bets on games around Europe


    Campbell’s father and mother Fiona Millar were reported to be facing losses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds relating to the alleged £5 million Ponzi-style pyramid scheme.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-man-arrested-alastair-campbell-son-football-betting-fund-b1253057.html
    Oh yes I forgot about how his son thought / claimed he could beat Tony Bloom and his team of 100 math PhDs....and I presume because his fund was "public" he also can't pull the sort of moves Tony Bloom associates do by betting in Asian markets via "interesting" go-betweens.
    IIRC at one point the Campbell syndicate team was two people, both with other jobs.
    Oxford graduate thinking he knew better than people who actually did things?

    Or am I being unfair?
    There’s a whole raft of people out there who fuck up in business, on that exact plan.

    This one was more stupid than most. The smart ones exit the business before the smash.
    I am never convinced by Ewan Blair's business when he explains it. It seems like its a good job he gets loads of money from government contracts.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,240
    Cyclefree said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:
    Interesting the ladies on the Trevor Phillips programme are incandescent that this is all about men acting as if they are the victims from Mandelson, to Blair, Brown, Starmer and in the US

    They reminded viewers it is the female victims who are wronged not an international mans club


    Ahem ...... as I have been saying.

    "Phallic drift": The powerful tendency for public discussion of female issues to drift, inexorably, back to the male point of view.

    If we really want serious change, instead of focusing on yet another process of what it means for the future career of this or that politician, perhaps the Gordon Browns of this world (especially the Gordon Brown who brought Mandelson back into government, who employed the McBride who decided to spin luridly sexual lies about Tory women) and other commentators could just this once - and for a change - stop giving us their views and learn to listen to women, really listen. They could accept that they have been wrong to ignore what women have been saying for YEARS. They could discuss - just for once - what should be done now for women rather than simply trotting out the same old empty cliches about strategies against VAWG while promulgating policies which make this more likely or do damn all about it. They might also think about what this case, the Pelicot one, the Joanne Young one, grooming gangs, the consistent murder rate of women by men, the language used to describe women if they so much as complain about any of this, and many many other examples say about male behaviour and society's tolerance of it.

    Women don't need talking heads. What we want and need are politicians - male or female - who show some genuine interest in improving matters for women, have effective plans to make this happen and the courage and determination to see these through. We've been waiting long enough. And we are both unsurprised by any of this and utterly bloody furious.

    Why attack Brown, someone who made ending child poverty his policy goal.
    Where's the vitriol for Cameron and Clegg, who destroyed the criminal justice system, or May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak who did nothing about VAWG in power and have done nothing since?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891
    England making a right hash of the T20.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183

    Brixian59 said:

    Couple of interesting takes from Mcfadden on LK

    Accepting he's a high competent politician, well respected and a good communicator.

    Accepting too he's worked for and with Mandelson pre 2010.

    Noticable the time and care and diligence he took to answer questions re recent contact with Mandelson
    Clearly everyone is going to be very careful to be accurate.

    It also struck me that this purge of information and data gathering may actually have the side effect of trawling up some potentially damaging detail on a completely different hot topic

    A topic that has the propensity to deeply embarrass the main Opposition Party and Reform.

    As a passionate pro Zionist, Friend of Israel and apologist of Netanyahu, Mandelson will no doubt have friends and confidants accross that Spectrum too and links to similar in Israel and the Trump administration

    This investigation could snowball in to deep uncharted waters.

    I thought you were one of our Saturday morning 'regulars', but are you actually @Roger in disguise?

    Its not about paedophilia and the sexual abuse and trafficking of girls and women, no, its actually 'Zionists' that are the issue. 🤮
    If you are investigating all communications you will find other issues

    Money Laundering
    Financial criminality

    If the Zionist cabal are implicated they have to be held accountable and not excused because they think they are untouchable
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562
    stodge said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:
    Interesting the ladies on the Trevor Phillips programme are incandescent that this is all about men acting as if they are the victims from Mandelson, to Blair, Brown, Starmer and in the US

    They reminded viewers it is the female victims who are wronged not an international mans club


    Ahem ...... as I have been saying.

    "Phallic drift": The powerful tendency for public discussion of female issues to drift, inexorably, back to the male point of view.

    If we really want serious change, instead of focusing on yet another process of what it means for the future career of this or that politician, perhaps the Gordon Browns of this world (especially the Gordon Brown who brought Mandelson back into government, who employed the McBride who decided to spin luridly sexual lies about Tory women) and other commentators could just this once - and for a change - stop giving us their views and learn to listen to women, really listen. They could accept that they have been wrong to ignore what women have been saying for YEARS. They could discuss - just for once - what should be done now for women rather than simply trotting out the same old empty cliches about strategies against VAWG while promulgating policies which make this more likely or do damn all about it. They might also think about what this case, the Pelicot one, the Joanne Young one, grooming gangs, the consistent murder rate of women by men, the language used to describe women if they so much as complain about any of this, and many many other examples say about male behaviour and society's tolerance of it.

    Women don't need talking heads. What we want and need are politicians - male or female - who show some genuine interest in improving matters for women, have effective plans to make this happen and the courage and determination to see these through. We've been waiting long enough. And we are both unsurprised by any of this and utterly bloody furious.

    As you have often said, this forum has so little women representation and maybe we should ask why

    You and @fitalass have a real case, and I have an instinct that the 'mans club' in politics is about to see a women's movement even similar to the suffragettes rising up and saying enough

    We see it on here with men pilling into Kemi Badenoch, one of only 2 high profile women in politics at present

    Mandelson's outrage must lead to the end of the mans club both here and abroad
    I fundamentally disagree. The notion Badenoch is somehow not to be criticised because of her gender is as absurd as claiming she is being criticised because of her gender.

    She is an elected MP and the Leader of His Majesty's Opposition - she could be Prime Minister one day. What she says matters and has to be scrutinised as much as anyone else.

    If I'm being honest, I detect a fraility among Conservatives like yourself - she is your party's last hope (arguably) and IF the party drops below Reform in terms of votes and seats at the next election, people will ask the same question as they asked of Liberals for decades in terms of relevance.

    She is being lauded and elevated by Conservatives for that reason - it remains to be seen if the broader electorate see her in the terms you do.
    It's quite obvious that Badenoch herself has no truck with people hiding behind identity politics
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,093

    I wonder why Blair And Campbell have been silent.

    Bad Al has his own legal and financial problems.
    Given they are making squillions from centrist dad podcast he can't be sort of a bob or two?
    From late last year.

    Police make arrest over collapse of Alastair Campbell son’s football betting fund

    Rory Campbell launched the fund in 2017, vowing to beat the bookies with bets on games around Europe


    Campbell’s father and mother Fiona Millar were reported to be facing losses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds relating to the alleged £5 million Ponzi-style pyramid scheme.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-man-arrested-alastair-campbell-son-football-betting-fund-b1253057.html
    Oh yes I forgot about how his son thought / claimed he could beat Tony Bloom and his team of 100 math PhDs....and I presume because his fund was "public" he also can't pull the sort of moves Tony Bloom associates do by betting in Asian markets via "interesting" go-betweens.
    IIRC at one point the Campbell syndicate team was two people, both with other jobs.
    Oxford graduate thinking he knew better than people who actually did things?

    Or am I being unfair?
    When it comes to football, the market is very very efficient and even if you do have an edge, trying to actually get the serious money on to make decent returns is another incredibly difficult task. The second part often requires some extremely dodgy manoeuvres.

    I still find it quite amazing that the EPL have given Bloom and Benham special allowances to carry on their betting operations (although I think Benham isn't as active as he was).
    Historically the football betting markets were very inefficient and it might be this that first attracted the likes of Bloom. As you intimate, half of Bloom's advantage are his number-crunchers, carefully isolated from each other, but the other half is his little black book of far eastern bookmakers and syndicates to bet against. (Which might become illegal if some have their way.) In America, his type would have long since moved on from betting markets to "the markets".

    As for Rory Campbell, my guess would be he started out legitimately after identifying a statistical quirk of some kind but his edge disappeared as either the market adjusted or on-field tactics evolved.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,660

    stodge said:

    WTAF is 'AI-mentum'?

    As you well know, it's the idea a political unknown like Al Carns could be the next Prime Minister.

    He ticks a couple of boxes - reasonably photogenic, military background but it's a real leap in the dark to imagine him as PM. Could he move up the Cabinet? Yes, certainly and in time he could well be a serious contender.

    It looks desperate - it could work and redefine politics for the next two decades or he could be Labour's Liz Truss, who knows?

    My current view, and this won't surprise, is Starmer is going nowhere unless he wants to go somewhere. I've been disappointed by him but not surprised - it's not the timidity or the caution that's the problem but the lack of any policy which could be called "radical". Where is the response to child poverty, homelessness, addiction problems etc, etc? If a majority of 170 doesn't give you a mandate to do something, we might as well end elections.

    It's not as though the "Right" (whatever that means) has anything to offer either which is the tragedy of all this.

    It's left to Reform or the Greens or groups like the Newham Independents to make big policy pronouncements and promise the Sun, the Moon and the stars but you and I both know they are all fiscally incoherent in extremis but desperate, disillusioned people will once again sign up to the nonsense.
    Re: “radical” I think the issue is that none of the things you mention are Starmer’s passion. Of course he supports them, like any bien pessant member of the Hampstead set but he’s not motivated to make them his legacy. He’s an international human rights lawyer - what he cares about is things like Chagos and cleaning up the loose ends of Empire. But those aren’t exactly popular… I reckon if he thought he could get away with it he’d give up Gib and the Falklands too…
    Then what is he doing at the top of the Labour Party? Surely that exists primarily for the benefit of working people in the UK!
    Because it was the logical next step in his career
    I could see that, because of the bog left by Corbyn (who I rather liked, btw) someone else was needed but surely someone who was, effectively, an innocent abroad in politics wasn't the right choice.
    And no, I don't think its was his next logical step. Candidate for Home Secretary maybe, but not PM.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183
    Very sad scenes in the Lady Downhill Skiing.

    Linddey Vonn on agony screaming in pain.

    Too brave for her own good

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,587
    boulay said:

    Oh Lindsey Vonn. Brave but maybe foolish decision to race.

    It looks like the latter
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071
    edited 11:11AM
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    On Badenoch,
    Her net favourability is now around or better than Farages generally but with more 'DKs' and therefore fewer of both positive 'favourable' and negative 'unfavourable'.
    If she can get her positive 'favourable' above Farages that is when id expect Tory polling to approach Reforms (although the party lag her a bit)

    Oh dear god
    What do you disagree with? (The post is an analysis not a prediction)
    See my later pist

    She won't stand up to scrutiny

    She is fundamentally dishonest
    None of which is relevant to what i said which was just analysis, not prediction of things that will happen for certain.
    You dont think her ratings will match Farages for gross positive. Thats a valid opinion. Others may disagree
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562
    edited 11:13AM

    On Badenoch,
    Her net favourability is now around or better than Farages generally but with more 'DKs' and therefore fewer of both positive 'favourable' and negative 'unfavourable'.
    If she can get her positive 'favourable' above Farages that is when id expect Tory polling to approach Reforms (although the party lag her a bit)

    It's a 3 year project and time will tell

    The point I make is she should be given the time and not a new leadership crisis
    Naturally, yes.
    40 points ahead Labour were.
    An opinion poll on a random Sunday 18 months in is not a GE
    MRPs are not crystal balls.
    May will provide actual regional analysis and data to enjoy
    Exactly.

    Holding up an opinion poll as gospel, after Labour were polling 45-50% in the last parliament and got 33% of a low turnout, shows it's folly. The actual results from by-elections hinted at Labour's real depth of support
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    It is remarkable that the women on the media this morning across the political divide are on the same page attacking the boys club in politics
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891

    I wonder why Blair And Campbell have been silent.

    Bad Al has his own legal and financial problems.
    Given they are making squillions from centrist dad podcast he can't be sort of a bob or two?
    From late last year.

    Police make arrest over collapse of Alastair Campbell son’s football betting fund

    Rory Campbell launched the fund in 2017, vowing to beat the bookies with bets on games around Europe


    Campbell’s father and mother Fiona Millar were reported to be facing losses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds relating to the alleged £5 million Ponzi-style pyramid scheme.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-man-arrested-alastair-campbell-son-football-betting-fund-b1253057.html
    Oh yes I forgot about how his son thought / claimed he could beat Tony Bloom and his team of 100 math PhDs....and I presume because his fund was "public" he also can't pull the sort of moves Tony Bloom associates do by betting in Asian markets via "interesting" go-betweens.
    IIRC at one point the Campbell syndicate team was two people, both with other jobs.
    Oxford graduate thinking he knew better than people who actually did things?

    Or am I being unfair?
    When it comes to football, the market is very very efficient and even if you do have an edge, trying to actually get the serious money on to make decent returns is another incredibly difficult task. The second part often requires some extremely dodgy manoeuvres.

    I still find it quite amazing that the EPL have given Bloom and Benham special allowances to carry on their betting operations (although I think Benham isn't as active as he was).
    Historically the football betting markets were very inefficient and it might be this that first attracted the likes of Bloom. As you intimate, half of Bloom's advantage are his number-crunchers, carefully isolated from each other, but the other half is his little black book of far eastern bookmakers and syndicates to bet against. (Which might become illegal if some have their way.) In America, his type would have long since moved on from betting markets to "the markets".

    As for Rory Campbell, my guess would be he started out legitimately after identifying a statistical quirk of some kind but his edge disappeared as either the market adjusted or on-field tactics evolved.
    Now FBRef have had their ability to release data revoked, it is an even more closed shop.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,587

    stodge said:

    WTAF is 'AI-mentum'?

    As you well know, it's the idea a political unknown like Al Carns could be the next Prime Minister.

    He ticks a couple of boxes - reasonably photogenic, military background but it's a real leap in the dark to imagine him as PM. Could he move up the Cabinet? Yes, certainly and in time he could well be a serious contender.

    It looks desperate - it could work and redefine politics for the next two decades or he could be Labour's Liz Truss, who knows?

    My current view, and this won't surprise, is Starmer is going nowhere unless he wants to go somewhere. I've been disappointed by him but not surprised - it's not the timidity or the caution that's the problem but the lack of any policy which could be called "radical". Where is the response to child poverty, homelessness, addiction problems etc, etc? If a majority of 170 doesn't give you a mandate to do something, we might as well end elections.

    It's not as though the "Right" (whatever that means) has anything to offer either which is the tragedy of all this.

    It's left to Reform or the Greens or groups like the Newham Independents to make big policy pronouncements and promise the Sun, the Moon and the stars but you and I both know they are all fiscally incoherent in extremis but desperate, disillusioned people will once again sign up to the nonsense.
    Re: “radical” I think the issue is that none of the things you mention are Starmer’s passion. Of course he supports them, like any bien pessant member of the Hampstead set but he’s not motivated to make them his legacy. He’s an international human rights lawyer - what he cares about is things like Chagos and cleaning up the loose ends of Empire. But those aren’t exactly popular… I reckon if he thought he could get away with it he’d give up Gib and the Falklands too…
    Then what is he doing at the top of the Labour Party? Surely that exists primarily for the benefit of working people in the UK!
    Because it was the logical next step in his career
    I could see that, because of the bog left by Corbyn (who I rather liked, btw) someone else was needed but surely someone who was, effectively, an innocent abroad in politics wasn't the right choice.
    And no, I don't think its was his next logical step. Candidate for Home Secretary maybe, but not PM.
    The story was he wanted to be AG, which makes plenty of sense. That’s why he was fine being in Corbyn’s shadow cabinet - he say himself as an advisor not a principal.

    And that may be why he never takes responsibility for anything
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,660

    England making a right hash of the T20.

    Jacks seems to have batted well. Or, at least, productively.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,226
    On Topic.

    Could a Benn or Healey finally lead Labour?

    Don't be a Silly Billy
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183

    Cyclefree said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:
    Interesting the ladies on the Trevor Phillips programme are incandescent that this is all about men acting as if they are the victims from Mandelson, to Blair, Brown, Starmer and in the US

    They reminded viewers it is the female victims who are wronged not an international mans club


    Ahem ...... as I have been saying.

    "Phallic drift": The powerful tendency for public discussion of female issues to drift, inexorably, back to the male point of view.

    If we really want serious change, instead of focusing on yet another process of what it means for the future career of this or that politician, perhaps the Gordon Browns of this world (especially the Gordon Brown who brought Mandelson back into government, who employed the McBride who decided to spin luridly sexual lies about Tory women) and other commentators could just this once - and for a change - stop giving us their views and learn to listen to women, really listen. They could accept that they have been wrong to ignore what women have been saying for YEARS. They could discuss - just for once - what should be done now for women rather than simply trotting out the same old empty cliches about strategies against VAWG while promulgating policies which make this more likely or do damn all about it. They might also think about what this case, the Pelicot one, the Joanne Young one, grooming gangs, the consistent murder rate of women by men, the language used to describe women if they so much as complain about any of this, and many many other examples say about male behaviour and society's tolerance of it.

    Women don't need talking heads. What we want and need are politicians - male or female - who show some genuine interest in improving matters for women, have effective plans to make this happen and the courage and determination to see these through. We've been waiting long enough. And we are both unsurprised by any of this and utterly bloody furious.

    As you have often said, this forum has so little women representation and maybe we should ask why

    You and @fitalass have a real case, and I have an instinct that the 'mans club' in politics is about to see a women's movement even similar to the suffragettes rising up and saying enough

    We see it on here with men pilling into Kemi Badenoch, one of only 2 high profile women in politics at present

    Mandelson's outrage must lead to the end of the mans club both here and abroad
    Don't be so precious, Badenoch is Tory leader.

    In the entire history of this site, name me any Tory leader ever that has not had men piling in to criticise them.

    It goes with the territory.
    Badenoch can have no pity

    She is happy to question the mental health of a former female colleague

    She is happy to verbally abuse other women politicians..

    She has a reputation as a hot headed and aggressive personalty.

    She has built the image of a hard nosed opportunistic bully.

    That needs calling out irrespective of her gender.



  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071
    edited 11:14AM
    isam said:

    On Badenoch,
    Her net favourability is now around or better than Farages generally but with more 'DKs' and therefore fewer of both positive 'favourable' and negative 'unfavourable'.
    If she can get her positive 'favourable' above Farages that is when id expect Tory polling to approach Reforms (although the party lag her a bit)

    It's a 3 year project and time will tell

    The point I make is she should be given the time and not a new leadership crisis
    Naturally, yes.
    40 points ahead Labour were.
    An opinion poll on a random Sunday 18 months in is not a GE
    MRPs are not crystal balls.
    May will provide actual regional analysis and data to enjoy
    Exactly.

    Holding up an opinion poll as gospel, after Labour were polling 45-50% in the last parliament and got 33% of a low turnout, shows it's folly.
    Even more so when we consider Labours lead shrank from 25 with YG the day before dissolution to 10 on polling day despite betting gate, d day, Farage etc etc etc
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,900
    Fishing said:

    maxh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:
    Interesting the ladies on the Trevor Phillips programme are incandescent that this is all about men acting as if they are the victims from Mandelson, to Blair, Brown, Starmer and in the US

    They reminded viewers it is the female victims who are wronged not an international mans club


    Ahem ...... as I have been saying.

    "Phallic drift": The powerful tendency for public discussion of female issues to drift, inexorably, back to the male point of view.

    If we really want serious change, instead of focusing on yet another process of what it means for the future career of this or that politician, perhaps the Gordon Browns of this world (especially the Gordon Brown who brought Mandelson back into government, who employed the McBride who decided to spin luridly sexual lies about Tory women) and other commentators could just this once - and for a change - stop giving us their views and learn to listen to women, really listen. They could accept that they have been wrong to ignore what women have been saying for YEARS. They could discuss - just for once - what should be done now for women rather than simply trotting out the same old empty cliches about strategies against VAWG while promulgating policies which make this more likely or do damn all about it. They might also think about what this case, the Pelicot one, the Joanne Young one, grooming gangs, the consistent murder rate of women by men, the language used to describe women if they so much as complain about any of this, and many many other examples say about male behaviour and society's tolerance of it.

    Women don't need talking heads. What we want and need are politicians - male or female - who show some genuine interest in improving matters for women, have effective plans to make this happen and the courage and determination to see these through. We've been waiting long enough. And we are both unsurprised by any of this and utterly bloody furious.

    As you have often said, this forum has so little women representation and maybe we should ask why

    You and @fitalass have a real case, and I have an instinct that the 'mans club' in politics is about to see a women's movement even similar to the suffragettes rising up and saying enough

    We see it on here with men pilling into Kemi Badenoch, one of only 2 high profile women in politics at present

    Mandelson's outrage must lead to the end of the mans club both here and abroad
    Don't be so precious, Badenoch is Tory leader.

    In the entire history of this site, name me any Tory leader ever that has not had men piling in to criticise them.

    It goes with the territory.
    Both things can be true. Any leader of any political party will get piled into on here, with good cause. And on this site and elsewhere that will be mostly men, because this site is dominated by men.

    But it is also true that women are not heard in politics in the same way as men are, whether the woman is a leader, pundit or nerd on a political site. Politics is fascinating (partly) because it is about power, and men and women hold power in different (not so say unequal) ways.

    Cyclefree's point about cliches and strategies about combatting violence against women and girls whilst promulgating a society that engenders exactly this violence rings particularly true for me.
    But men are almost twice as likely to be victims of violent crime than women - about 1.8% of men, compared to 1.1% of women in 22/23, despite there being more women than men in the population, and about 72% of homicide victims are male, for instance. As this Home Office document says (section 3): "Excluding fraud and computer misuse, females were significantly less likely of being a victim of personal crime than males."

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2023/statistics-on-women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2023-html#victims

    Actually, far from society engendering violence against women and girls, I've noticed significant social taboos against it.

    Of course any violence is wrong, except to defend oneself or others. And women's general physical weakness compared to men makes them much easier targets. But the notion that society somehow engenders it more than it does violence against men just doesn't stack up.

    Rather than focusing unnecessarily and divisively on who the victims are, we should perhaps be concentrating on why (from memory) about 85% of the perpetrators of violent crime are male, and how to reduce that.
    Thanks, good challenge, I would be interested to hear more informed (than mine) responses to it.

    Having digested your link, my only response would be to say that my understanding of Cyclefree's point was relating to violence that is not necessarily recorded as a crime. However I am not aware of stats on this and am aware the discussion can then fall back into opinion and prejudice so I shall shut up.

    Agreed on understanding how to reduce the prevalence of violent crime amongst male perpetrators.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,240

    I wonder why Blair And Campbell have been silent.

    Bad Al has his own legal and financial problems.
    Given they are making squillions from centrist dad podcast he can't be sort of a bob or two?
    From late last year.

    Police make arrest over collapse of Alastair Campbell son’s football betting fund

    Rory Campbell launched the fund in 2017, vowing to beat the bookies with bets on games around Europe


    Campbell’s father and mother Fiona Millar were reported to be facing losses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds relating to the alleged £5 million Ponzi-style pyramid scheme.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-man-arrested-alastair-campbell-son-football-betting-fund-b1253057.html
    Oh yes I forgot about how his son thought / claimed he could beat Tony Bloom and his team of 100 math PhDs....and I presume because his fund was "public" he also can't pull the sort of moves Tony Bloom associates do by betting in Asian markets via "interesting" go-betweens.
    IIRC at one point the Campbell syndicate team was two people, both with other jobs.
    Oxford graduate thinking he knew better than people who actually did things?

    Or am I being unfair?
    There’s a whole raft of people out there who fuck up in business, on that exact plan.

    This one was more stupid than most. The smart ones exit the business before the smash.
    I am never convinced by Ewan Blair's business when he explains it. It seems like its a good job he gets loads of money from government contracts.
    Iirc Blair's business partner is even better connected than him, the business itself seemed massively overvalued for an apprentice training business.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,525

    Visual metaphor with many applications. Notable that even with much prodding and stick waving, the Lagomorph still wasn't at the races.
    Ed Is Tortoise Is PM?

    This Account Makes You Happy
    @FeelYouHappy
    The fable of the rabbit and the tortoise has been tested in real life. 😂

    https://x.com/FeelYouHappy/status/2020160372364451856?s=20

    The pedant in me has to point out is that it is fable of the tortoise and hare.
    Lagomorph schmagomorph.

    Hares being pretty untameable, it would have been off like shit off a shovel in the opposite direction.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891
    Dopermean said:

    I wonder why Blair And Campbell have been silent.

    Bad Al has his own legal and financial problems.
    Given they are making squillions from centrist dad podcast he can't be sort of a bob or two?
    From late last year.

    Police make arrest over collapse of Alastair Campbell son’s football betting fund

    Rory Campbell launched the fund in 2017, vowing to beat the bookies with bets on games around Europe


    Campbell’s father and mother Fiona Millar were reported to be facing losses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds relating to the alleged £5 million Ponzi-style pyramid scheme.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-man-arrested-alastair-campbell-son-football-betting-fund-b1253057.html
    Oh yes I forgot about how his son thought / claimed he could beat Tony Bloom and his team of 100 math PhDs....and I presume because his fund was "public" he also can't pull the sort of moves Tony Bloom associates do by betting in Asian markets via "interesting" go-betweens.
    IIRC at one point the Campbell syndicate team was two people, both with other jobs.
    Oxford graduate thinking he knew better than people who actually did things?

    Or am I being unfair?
    There’s a whole raft of people out there who fuck up in business, on that exact plan.

    This one was more stupid than most. The smart ones exit the business before the smash.
    I am never convinced by Ewan Blair's business when he explains it. It seems like its a good job he gets loads of money from government contracts.
    Iirc Blair's business partner is even better connected than him, the business itself seemed massively overvalued for an apprentice training business.
    The last interview I saw with him he just kept saying AI....I am surprised he wasn't the one given the contract for the shit show that is the AI Skills Hub.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    edited 11:22AM
    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    And yet nobody seems to have known what he was really like, in fact many seem to claim they barely knew him at all.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,240

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity


    Glasman, Blair or Mandelson?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    Dopermean said:

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity


    Glasman, Blair or Mandelson?
    Which do you think ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    The workers party betrayal of the working class has been much more than a one man project
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,501
    Sadly no deliveries for the Pants Peer, or in his village, today

    But I did get a cracking Mandy anecdote from one of my colleagues

    He had an early Special Delivery for him about five years ago. The door was answered by a young black man wearing just a towel, who refused to sign for the delivery. My mate reckons his accent was African

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,289

    Dopermean said:

    I wonder why Blair And Campbell have been silent.

    Bad Al has his own legal and financial problems.
    Given they are making squillions from centrist dad podcast he can't be sort of a bob or two?
    From late last year.

    Police make arrest over collapse of Alastair Campbell son’s football betting fund

    Rory Campbell launched the fund in 2017, vowing to beat the bookies with bets on games around Europe


    Campbell’s father and mother Fiona Millar were reported to be facing losses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds relating to the alleged £5 million Ponzi-style pyramid scheme.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-police-man-arrested-alastair-campbell-son-football-betting-fund-b1253057.html
    Oh yes I forgot about how his son thought / claimed he could beat Tony Bloom and his team of 100 math PhDs....and I presume because his fund was "public" he also can't pull the sort of moves Tony Bloom associates do by betting in Asian markets via "interesting" go-betweens.
    IIRC at one point the Campbell syndicate team was two people, both with other jobs.
    Oxford graduate thinking he knew better than people who actually did things?

    Or am I being unfair?
    There’s a whole raft of people out there who fuck up in business, on that exact plan.

    This one was more stupid than most. The smart ones exit the business before the smash.
    I am never convinced by Ewan Blair's business when he explains it. It seems like its a good job he gets loads of money from government contracts.
    Iirc Blair's business partner is even better connected than him, the business itself seemed massively overvalued for an apprentice training business.
    The last interview I saw with him he just kept saying AI....I am surprised he wasn't the one given the contract for the shit show that is the AI Skills Hub.
    These sorts of businesses are sales operations with product as an afterthough. Not that there's anything wrong with that, in theory.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,959

    Visual metaphor with many applications. Notable that even with much prodding and stick waving, the Lagomorph still wasn't at the races.
    Ed Is Tortoise Is PM?

    This Account Makes You Happy
    @FeelYouHappy
    The fable of the rabbit and the tortoise has been tested in real life. 😂

    https://x.com/FeelYouHappy/status/2020160372364451856?s=20

    The pedant in me has to point out is that it is fable of the tortoise and hare.
    Lagomorph schmagomorph.

    Hares being pretty untameable, it would have been off like shit off a shovel in the opposite direction.
    Did you know that boxing hares are actually a female and a male, her fighting off his tiresome advances? I didn't. Seems appropriate to today's PB discussion.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,525
    Dopermean said:

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity


    Glasman, Blair or Mandelson?
    Let's not ignore the woman factor ie Big Mags.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,393
    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,232

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    It happens in politics, look at Jeffrey Archer, had a strong influence on three consecutive Tory leaders over a quarter of a century despite everybody knowing he was dodgy as hell.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891
    New combat sport league where heavyweights just sprint full speed into each other
    https://x.com/HappyPunch/status/2020239661051125915?s=20

    Anybody fancy a go?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,053

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    Do you mean Mandelson? I don't think infiltrate is the right word in that case.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562
    edited 11:25AM

    Sadly no deliveries for the Pants Peer, or in his village, today

    But I did get a cracking Mandy anecdote from one of my colleagues

    He had an early Special Delivery for him about five years ago. The door was answered by a young black man wearing just a towel, who refused to sign for the delivery. My mate reckons his accent was African

    It's that Nigerian Prince!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,289
    carnforth said:

    Japanese prime minister's gamble has paid off. With almost half of results in, she is projected to win 274-328 seats out of 465, up from 199. Turnout somewhat down.

    Sorry, Nikkei exit poll not results. Mea Culpa. I am getting this from Japanese TV and I don't speak the language.

    Exit poll:

    LDP 274-328
    Centrist Reform Alliance 37-91
    Japan Innovation Party 28-38
    Democratic Party For the People 18-35
    Japan Communist Party 3-8
    Reiwa Shinsengumi 0-2
    Yuukoku Union 0-3
    Sanseito 5-14
    Conservative Party 0-1
    Social Democratic Party 0
    Team Mirai 7-13
    Others 3-8

    A rout.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    It happens in politics, look at Jeffrey Archer, had a strong influence on three consecutive Tory leaders over a quarter of a century despite everybody knowing he was dodgy as hell.
    Indeed

    Many years ago I had to host Archer at an event on behalf of the organisations President and he was an engaging person

    This before his fall in grace but he had energy and personality
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071
    isam said:

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
    And set against Nige, replete with pencil 'tache and suit and a load of knock off nylons for the hardworking patriotic housewives of England
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,716
    Brixian59 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:
    Interesting the ladies on the Trevor Phillips programme are incandescent that this is all about men acting as if they are the victims from Mandelson, to Blair, Brown, Starmer and in the US

    They reminded viewers it is the female victims who are wronged not an international mans club


    Ahem ...... as I have been saying.

    "Phallic drift": The powerful tendency for public discussion of female issues to drift, inexorably, back to the male point of view.

    If we really want serious change, instead of focusing on yet another process of what it means for the future career of this or that politician, perhaps the Gordon Browns of this world (especially the Gordon Brown who brought Mandelson back into government, who employed the McBride who decided to spin luridly sexual lies about Tory women) and other commentators could just this once - and for a change - stop giving us their views and learn to listen to women, really listen. They could accept that they have been wrong to ignore what women have been saying for YEARS. They could discuss - just for once - what should be done now for women rather than simply trotting out the same old empty cliches about strategies against VAWG while promulgating policies which make this more likely or do damn all about it. They might also think about what this case, the Pelicot one, the Joanne Young one, grooming gangs, the consistent murder rate of women by men, the language used to describe women if they so much as complain about any of this, and many many other examples say about male behaviour and society's tolerance of it.

    Women don't need talking heads. What we want and need are politicians - male or female - who show some genuine interest in improving matters for women, have effective plans to make this happen and the courage and determination to see these through. We've been waiting long enough. And we are both unsurprised by any of this and utterly bloody furious.

    As you have often said, this forum has so little women representation and maybe we should ask why

    You and @fitalass have a real case, and I have an instinct that the 'mans club' in politics is about to see a women's movement even similar to the suffragettes rising up and saying enough

    We see it on here with men pilling into Kemi Badenoch, one of only 2 high profile women in politics at present

    Mandelson's outrage must lead to the end of the mans club both here and abroad
    Don't be so precious, Badenoch is Tory leader.

    In the entire history of this site, name me any Tory leader ever that has not had men piling in to criticise them.

    It goes with the territory.
    Badenoch can have no pity

    She is happy to question the mental health of a former female colleague

    She is happy to verbally abuse other women politicians..

    She has a reputation as a hot headed and aggressive personalty.

    She has built the image of a hard nosed opportunistic bully.

    That needs calling out irrespective of her gender.



    Kemi Derangement Syndrome!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183
    isam said:

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
    Indeed and she has a fraction of the ability of RR

    A Degree in Engineering she tells us.

    I'm an Engineer

    No job experience it seems oh, hang on.

    She's a Computer Engineer.

    "Hello Client can I suggest you switch your computer off at the mains, count to 30 and switch back on. I'll close the issue if it reoccurs please call back"

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183
    isam said:

    Sadly no deliveries for the Pants Peer, or in his village, today

    But I did get a cracking Mandy anecdote from one of my colleagues

    He had an early Special Delivery for him about five years ago. The door was answered by a young black man wearing just a towel, who refused to sign for the delivery. My mate reckons his accent was African

    It's that Nigerian Prince!
    Kwasi Kwarteng
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    Do you mean Mandelson? I don't think infiltrate is the right word in that case.
    His family are Labour back generations.

    All perfectly well behaved before him.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,393

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
    I was actually being sarcastic. Reeves has been subject to much more misogynistic abuse on here and elsewhere than Badenoch.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
    I was actually being sarcastic. Reeves has been subject to much more misogynistic abuse on here and elsewhere than Badenoch.
    I agree on that

    And on Kemi, rising to PM would be the perfect antidote to Farage and Reform
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,627
    Brixian59 said:

    isam said:

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
    Indeed and she has a fraction of the ability of RR

    A Degree in Engineering she tells us.

    I'm an Engineer

    No job experience it seems oh, hang on.

    She's a Computer Engineer.

    "Hello Client can I suggest you switch your computer off at the mains, count to 30 and switch back on. I'll close the issue if it reoccurs please call back"

    Nothing quite like a good sneer at IT.

    Then a good whine as to why this country just has shit property companies and a lack of IT giants.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,434
    Who is so stupid they don’t have all their most precious photos backed up in multiple locations both real and cloudy?

    “Asked Cowork to organise my wife’s desktop, it stated doing it, asked for a permission to delete temp office files, I granted it, and then it goes “ooops”.
    Turns out it tried renaming and accidentally deleted a folder with all of the photos my wife made on her camera for the last 15 years. All photos of kids, their illustrations, friends’ weddings, travel, everything.
    It’s not in trash, it was done via terminal
    It’s not in iCloud, it already synced the new file structure.
    She didn’t have Time Machine.
    Disc recovery tools can’t see anything.
    I called Apple and they pointed me to a feature in iCloud allowing to retrieve files that were saved before but are no longer on iCloud Drive (they keep them for 30 days).
    I’m now watching it load tens of thousands of files. I nearly had a heart attack.”


    https://x.com/nick_davidov/status/2019982510478995782?s=46
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,335

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
    I was actually being sarcastic. Reeves has been subject to much more misogynistic abuse on here and elsewhere than Badenoch.
    I agree on that

    And on Kemi, rising to PM would be the perfect antidote to Farage and Reform
    Not whilst she's still promoting the same old rhetoric as Farage, for example the policy on ECHR. That's just one example, there are lots more.

    This is why HYUFD has a point.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,411

    Brixian59 said:

    isam said:

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
    Indeed and she has a fraction of the ability of RR

    A Degree in Engineering she tells us.

    I'm an Engineer

    No job experience it seems oh, hang on.

    She's a Computer Engineer.

    "Hello Client can I suggest you switch your computer off at the mains, count to 30 and switch back on. I'll close the issue if it reoccurs please call back"

    Nothing quite like a good sneer at IT.

    Then a good whine as to why this country just has shit property companies and a lack of IT giants.
    IT wonks are not engineers.

    Neither are the folk who fix gas boilers.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891
    Claude Code now in Powerpoint....10 start-ups just died.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,959
    Brixian59 said:

    isam said:

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
    Indeed and she has a fraction of the ability of RR

    A Degree in Engineering she tells us.

    I'm an Engineer

    No job experience it seems oh, hang on.

    She's a Computer Engineer.

    "Hello Client can I suggest you switch your computer off at the mains, count to 30 and switch back on. I'll close the issue if it reoccurs please call back"

    Your first line was a genuine puzzler to me for a good minute. Rolls Royce? Robert Robinson? Royal Rumble?

    Then it dawned on me you meant Rachel Reeves. :lol:

    But even then couldn't quite bring yourself to type the actual words. :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071
    edited 11:52AM
    Just looking at Prosper and the alleged 'wet' Tory movement - most of them are dry as dust economic thatcherites.
    I think the media etc have forgotten what 'wets' are
    Theyll work well with what Badenoch/Stride/Cleverley want to do.
    The ECHR/Immigration stuff where there are differences is nothing to do with 'wets'. Ultimately the socially leftward/thatcherite economically lot will just go with the ECHR stuff because the economy is what really matters to them

    In my opinion of course
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,946
    https://www.ft.com/content/2b030926-2012-4446-b22d-e549e10e7086

    Article arguing that one day - maybe soon - Bitcoin is going to end in a big fat 🫟
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    So if, for example, Tuesdays YG has Con +1 Lab -1 and Con back in 2nd will she be making progress?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
    I was actually being sarcastic. Reeves has been subject to much more misogynistic abuse on here and elsewhere than Badenoch.
    I agree on that

    And on Kemi, rising to PM would be the perfect antidote to Farage and Reform
    Not whilst she's still promoting the same old rhetoric as Farage, for example the policy on ECHR. That's just one example, there are lots more.

    This is why HYUFD has a point.
    The ECHR is being questioned across Europe and here by Mahmood on variations to enable control of our borders

    I hope the ECHR does change its policy but if we still have an immigration crisis in 3 years then exciting the ECHR will be the result

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,335

    Just looking at Prosper and the alleged 'wet' Tory movement - most of them are dry as dust economic thatcherites.
    I think the media etc have forgotten what 'wets' are
    Theyll work well with what Badenoch/Stride/Cleverley want to do.
    The ECHR/Immigration stuff where there are differences is nothing to do with 'wets'. Ultimately the socially leftward/thatcherite economically lot will just go with the ECHR stuff because the economy is what really matters to them

    In my opinion of course

    The lack of capitalisation for proper nouns and a scant regard for punctuation in that post suggests to me that Leon wrote it for you.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562
    edited 11:58AM
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    edited 11:57AM
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,335

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
    I was actually being sarcastic. Reeves has been subject to much more misogynistic abuse on here and elsewhere than Badenoch.
    I agree on that

    And on Kemi, rising to PM would be the perfect antidote to Farage and Reform
    Not whilst she's still promoting the same old rhetoric as Farage, for example the policy on ECHR. That's just one example, there are lots more.

    This is why HYUFD has a point.
    The ECHR is being questioned across Europe and here by Mahmood on variations to enable control of our borders

    I hope the ECHR does change its policy but if we still have an immigration crisis in 3 years then exciting the ECHR will be the result

    And the ECHR certainly needs some excitement!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071

    Just looking at Prosper and the alleged 'wet' Tory movement - most of them are dry as dust economic thatcherites.
    I think the media etc have forgotten what 'wets' are
    Theyll work well with what Badenoch/Stride/Cleverley want to do.
    The ECHR/Immigration stuff where there are differences is nothing to do with 'wets'. Ultimately the socially leftward/thatcherite economically lot will just go with the ECHR stuff because the economy is what really matters to them

    In my opinion of course

    The lack of capitalisation for proper nouns and a scant regard for punctuation in that post suggests to me that Leon wrote it for you.
    Sadly i write all my own stuff, so theres only me to blame
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,544
    edited 12:01PM

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    It happens in politics, look at Jeffrey Archer, had a strong influence on three consecutive Tory leaders over a quarter of a century despite everybody knowing he was dodgy as hell.
    Indeed

    Many years ago I had to host Archer at an event on behalf of the organisations President and he was an engaging person

    This before his fall in grace but he had energy and personality
    But that's the point.

    Archer was known to be extremely dodgy from very early in his career. His stint fundraising for the United Nations Association, where he made some controversial expenses claims, was in the 1960s.

    But because he is engaging and has energy and personality (and he does- I've been in the room post-Daily Star, pre-Anglia), he got away with far too much for far too long.

    The question isn't 'why did Labour fall for a charismatic chancer', because everyone falls for them. It's not even 'why do people fall for charismatic chancers', because that what charisma is. It's 'what, if anything, can us normies do to move the odds?'
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891
    Squeak bum time for England in the T20.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,335

    Just looking at Prosper and the alleged 'wet' Tory movement - most of them are dry as dust economic thatcherites.
    I think the media etc have forgotten what 'wets' are
    Theyll work well with what Badenoch/Stride/Cleverley want to do.
    The ECHR/Immigration stuff where there are differences is nothing to do with 'wets'. Ultimately the socially leftward/thatcherite economically lot will just go with the ECHR stuff because the economy is what really matters to them

    In my opinion of course

    The lack of capitalisation for proper nouns and a scant regard for punctuation in that post suggests to me that Leon wrote it for you.
    Sadly i write all my own stuff, so theres only me to blame
    I am not sure I believe you. Unless of course you are Leon.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    I agree and I am not suggesting she is not open to criticism

    The point this morning was about the mens club in politics and how angry women are about them

    Nothing would please me more for Kemi to rise above and become our country's first black PM and as a conservative
    I was actually being sarcastic. Reeves has been subject to much more misogynistic abuse on here and elsewhere than Badenoch.
    I agree on that

    And on Kemi, rising to PM would be the perfect antidote to Farage and Reform
    Not whilst she's still promoting the same old rhetoric as Farage, for example the policy on ECHR. That's just one example, there are lots more.

    This is why HYUFD has a point.
    The ECHR is being questioned across Europe and here by Mahmood on variations to enable control of our borders

    I hope the ECHR does change its policy but if we still have an immigration crisis in 3 years then exciting the ECHR will be the result

    And the ECHR certainly needs some excitement!
    Well spotted
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    It happens in politics, look at Jeffrey Archer, had a strong influence on three consecutive Tory leaders over a quarter of a century despite everybody knowing he was dodgy as hell.
    Indeed

    Many years ago I had to host Archer at an event on behalf of the organisations President and he was an engaging person

    This before his fall in grace but he had energy and personality
    But that's the point.

    Archer was known to be extremely dodgy from very early in his career. His stint fundraising for the United Nations Association, where he made some controversial expenses claims, was in the 1960s.

    But because he is engaging and has energy and personality (and he does- I've been in the room post-Daily Star, pre-Anglia), he got away with far too much for far too long.

    The question isn't 'why did Labour fall for a charismatic chancer', because everyone falls for them. It's not even 'why do people fall for charismatic chancers', because that what charisma is. It's 'what, if anything, can us normies do to move the odds?'
    The problem is the normies thought the answer was Sir Keir, but he was a chancer too, just an uncharismatic one
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071

    Just looking at Prosper and the alleged 'wet' Tory movement - most of them are dry as dust economic thatcherites.
    I think the media etc have forgotten what 'wets' are
    Theyll work well with what Badenoch/Stride/Cleverley want to do.
    The ECHR/Immigration stuff where there are differences is nothing to do with 'wets'. Ultimately the socially leftward/thatcherite economically lot will just go with the ECHR stuff because the economy is what really matters to them

    In my opinion of course

    The lack of capitalisation for proper nouns and a scant regard for punctuation in that post suggests to me that Leon wrote it for you.
    Sadly i write all my own stuff, so theres only me to blame
    I am not sure I believe you. Unless of course you are Leon.
    Lol. As if.
    I've been here for 20 years and thats the first time anyone has suggested i might be a Leon sock puppet!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    So if, for example, Tuesdays YG has Con +1 Lab -1 and Con back in 2nd will she be making progress?
    At minimum the Conservatives should be second to Reform and consistently ahead of this deeply unpopular Labour government
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    Kemi knows Pritti was recommended by the One pendent Assessor to be removed from Boris Cabinet.

    He didn't have the balls to sack her

    She appointed to the role of Shadow Foreign Secretary a person who turned up as a Minister of State in Tel Aviv without authorisation passing on State information.

    She chose not to care.

    I'd argue the latter a far bigger threat to State security not withstanding the sexual devient that was Epstein
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    It happens in politics, look at Jeffrey Archer, had a strong influence on three consecutive Tory leaders over a quarter of a century despite everybody knowing he was dodgy as hell.
    Indeed

    Many years ago I had to host Archer at an event on behalf of the organisations President and he was an engaging person

    This before his fall in grace but he had energy and personality
    He was also a bestselling novelist and athlete
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,335

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    I am not here to defend Starmer but unless she has evidence to back that up I suspect Badenoch's loose tongue is getting the better of her AGAIN.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    And? Half the media and Farage and even some in Labour have said that too
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,959
    isam said:

    I think PBers should treat Kemi Badenoch with the same courtesy and respect that they extend to Rachel Reeves.

    My prediction is a big glow up for Kemi before the election campaign. Invisalign maybe
    Kemi's teeth aren't uneven, they're just widely spaced.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,071
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    So if, for example, Tuesdays YG has Con +1 Lab -1 and Con back in 2nd will she be making progress?
    At minimum the Conservatives should be second to Reform and consistently ahead of this deeply unpopular Labour government
    Then look at the polling averages over a month or two, not one in isolation. Poll outliers and house effects exist. The overall picture is a little more nuanced.
    Anyway im off to enjoy Old Pa Woolie's company for the afternoon
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 183
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    So if, for example, Tuesdays YG has Con +1 Lab -1 and Con back in 2nd will she be making progress?
    At minimum the Conservatives should be second to Reform and consistently ahead of this deeply unpopular Labour government
    She will be making progress in the eyes of any sensible person when the Tories are over 20% in 8 out of 10 Polls consistently.

    Then regularly around 22 to 23%

    Thats where Labour have begun to place in around half of the Polls in the past month 20 to 22.

    Tories 17 to 19.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    So if, for example, Tuesdays YG has Con +1 Lab -1 and Con back in 2nd will she be making progress?
    At minimum the Conservatives should be second to Reform and consistently ahead of this deeply unpopular Labour government
    Did you read todays telegraph article I just posted for you

    You are not reflecting current conservative mps or supporters views
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,959

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    I am not here to defend Starmer but unless she has evidence to back that up I suspect Badenoch's loose tongue is getting the better of her AGAIN.

    Eh? He did know - he has admitted it. And he did appoint him regardless 'chose not to care' - she's not making any sort of new claim.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851
    edited 12:12PM
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
    She has been, she is into her second year in the job and the Tories are polling even worse than they did at the 2024 general election.

    She was elected to unite the right and push back Reform, she failed to do that and has lost Jenrick, Kruger, Braverman, Rosindell etc to Reform and just boosted Farage further.

    She also has trashed centrists in her party and has less appeal to swing voters than Cleverly. Tory MPs have given her plenty of chances but if the Tories bomb in May Kemi will be gone
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,660
    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    Kemi knows Pritti was recommended by the One pendent Assessor to be removed from Boris Cabinet.

    He didn't have the balls to sack her

    She appointed to the role of Shadow Foreign Secretary a person who turned up as a Minister of State in Tel Aviv without authorisation passing on State information.

    She chose not to care.

    I'd argue the latter a far bigger threat to State security not withstanding the sexual devient that was Epstein
    I'd argue that Starmer knew something about Mandelson and Epstein but felt that, in the circumstances, Mandelson's possible relationship with Trump 'trumped' it.
    As argued persuasively by others on pb over the past few says.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    And? Half the media and Farage and even some in Labour have said that too
    The headline is not the story

    Read it all and learn
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,818

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    Kemi knows Pritti was recommended by the One pendent Assessor to be removed from Boris Cabinet.

    He didn't have the balls to sack her

    She appointed to the role of Shadow Foreign Secretary a person who turned up as a Minister of State in Tel Aviv without authorisation passing on State information.

    She chose not to care.

    I'd argue the latter a far bigger threat to State security not withstanding the sexual devient that was Epstein
    I'd argue that Starmer knew something about Mandelson and Epstein but felt that, in the circumstances, Mandelson's possible relationship with Trump 'trumped' it.
    As argued persuasively by others on pb over the past few says.
    Old saying OKC, if you lie with dog's you catch fleas. Starmer proves again he is tin eared and has no clue on judgement and consequences, his arrogance has him hoist by his own petard.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,811
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
    She has been, she is into her second year in the job and the Tories are polling even worse than they did at the 2024 general election.

    She was elected to unite the right and push back Reform, she failed to do that and has lost Jenrick, Kruger, Braverman, Rosindell etc to Reform and just boosted Farage further.

    She also has trashed centrists in her party and has less appeal to swing voters than Cleverly. Tory MPs have given her plenty of chances but if the Tories bomb in May Kemi will be gone
    Personally, I rate Kemi considerably higher than any alternative.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,521
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
    She has been, she is into her second year in the job and the Tories are polling even worse than they did at the 2024 general election.

    She was elected to unite the right and push back Reform, she failed to do that and has lost Jenrick, Kruger, Braverman, Rosindell etc to Reform and just boosted Farage further.

    She also has trashed centrists in her party and has less appeal to swing voters than Cleverly. Tory MPs have given her plenty of chances but if the Tories bomb in May Kemi will be gone
    In January the conservatives led labour in 14 polls - level in 2 - within 1% in 4 and you use one 16% poll to talk about Kemi defenestration

    I do not understand your agenda nor would Cleverly
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,959
    Brown's 'independent anti-corruption commission' is a classic Brown move - like when he left office and put Ministerial pay down as one of his last acts. You put a quango in place, with all the requisite biases of such organisations - Margaret Hodge is the suggested leader - give it lots of powers, just in time for a new right wing Government to come in, whereupon the anti-corruption commission will be declaring everything and everyone corrupt within five minutes of them getting them keys to Number 10. Then that new Government has yet another limit on its room for manoeuvre, and has to 'abolish the independent anti-corruption commission' and face those headlines if it wants to do anything.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
    She has been, she is into her second year in the job and the Tories are polling even worse than they did at the 2024 general election.

    She was elected to unite the right and push back Reform, she failed to do that and has lost Jenrick, Kruger, Braverman, Rosindell etc to Reform and just boosted Farage further.

    She also has trashed centrists in her party and has less appeal to swing voters than Cleverly. Tory MPs have given her plenty of chances but if the Tories bomb in May Kemi will be gone
    Personally, I rate Kemi considerably higher than any alternative.
    So are you voting Conservative then under Kemi, if not, who cares?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891
    edited 12:24PM

    Brown's 'independent anti-corruption commission' is a classic Brown move - like when he left office and put Ministerial pay down as one of his last acts. You put a quango in place, with all the requisite biases of such organisations - Margaret Hodge is the suggested leader - give it lots of powers, just in time for a new right wing Government to come in, whereupon the anti-corruption commission will be declaring everything and everyone corrupt within five minutes of them getting them keys to Number 10. Then that new Government has yet another limit on its room for manoeuvre, and has to 'abolish the independent anti-corruption commission' and face those headlines if it wants to do anything.

    There isn't a problem Gordo hasn't seen where the solution isn't another mega Quango funded by a tax on some "sin". And within 5 years their budgets and remit has ballooned. Everything is a nail where the hammer is a new Quango to Gordo.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,051

    Brown's 'independent anti-corruption commission' is a classic Brown move - like when he left office and put Ministerial pay down as one of his last acts. You put a quango in place, with all the requisite biases of such organisations - Margaret Hodge is the suggested leader - give it lots of powers, just in time for a new right wing Government to come in, whereupon the anti-corruption commission will be declaring everything and everyone corrupt within five minutes of them getting them keys to Number 10. Then that new Government has yet another limit on its room for manoeuvre, and has to 'abolish the independent anti-corruption commission' and face those headlines if it wants to do anything.

    I'd not heard of that, but it would be a savvy if crapy political tactic indeed.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,660
    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    Kemi knows Pritti was recommended by the One pendent Assessor to be removed from Boris Cabinet.

    He didn't have the balls to sack her

    She appointed to the role of Shadow Foreign Secretary a person who turned up as a Minister of State in Tel Aviv without authorisation passing on State information.

    She chose not to care.

    I'd argue the latter a far bigger threat to State security not withstanding the sexual devient that was Epstein
    I'd argue that Starmer knew something about Mandelson and Epstein but felt that, in the circumstances, Mandelson's possible relationship with Trump 'trumped' it.
    As argued persuasively by others on pb over the past few says.
    Old saying OKC, if you lie with dog's you catch fleas. Starmer proves again he is tin eared and has no clue on judgement and consequences, his arrogance has him hoist by his own petard.
    Agree that Starmer's judgement in this case proved faulty, but if Mandelson has been less of a nasty piece of work, sex-wise, it might well turned out differently.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,891

    malcolmg said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    Kemi knows Pritti was recommended by the One pendent Assessor to be removed from Boris Cabinet.

    He didn't have the balls to sack her

    She appointed to the role of Shadow Foreign Secretary a person who turned up as a Minister of State in Tel Aviv without authorisation passing on State information.

    She chose not to care.

    I'd argue the latter a far bigger threat to State security not withstanding the sexual devient that was Epstein
    I'd argue that Starmer knew something about Mandelson and Epstein but felt that, in the circumstances, Mandelson's possible relationship with Trump 'trumped' it.
    As argued persuasively by others on pb over the past few says.
    Old saying OKC, if you lie with dog's you catch fleas. Starmer proves again he is tin eared and has no clue on judgement and consequences, his arrogance has him hoist by his own petard.
    Agree that Starmer's judgement in this case proved faulty, but if Mandelson has been less of a nasty piece of work, sex-wise, it might well turned out differently.
    Previous evidence suggests otherwise, just a matter of time until he did something dodgy or exposed as having done something dodgy. But nobody was quite expecting this. Its like putting Boris in charge of any organisation and being shocked he has been bonking the secretary...again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,175
    .
    Dopermean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:
    Interesting the ladies on the Trevor Phillips programme are incandescent that this is all about men acting as if they are the victims from Mandelson, to Blair, Brown, Starmer and in the US

    They reminded viewers it is the female victims who are wronged not an international mans club


    Ahem ...... as I have been saying.

    "Phallic drift": The powerful tendency for public discussion of female issues to drift, inexorably, back to the male point of view.

    If we really want serious change, instead of focusing on yet another process of what it means for the future career of this or that politician, perhaps the Gordon Browns of this world (especially the Gordon Brown who brought Mandelson back into government, who employed the McBride who decided to spin luridly sexual lies about Tory women) and other commentators could just this once - and for a change - stop giving us their views and learn to listen to women, really listen. They could accept that they have been wrong to ignore what women have been saying for YEARS. They could discuss - just for once - what should be done now for women rather than simply trotting out the same old empty cliches about strategies against VAWG while promulgating policies which make this more likely or do damn all about it. They might also think about what this case, the Pelicot one, the Joanne Young one, grooming gangs, the consistent murder rate of women by men, the language used to describe women if they so much as complain about any of this, and many many other examples say about male behaviour and society's tolerance of it.

    Women don't need talking heads. What we want and need are politicians - male or female - who show some genuine interest in improving matters for women, have effective plans to make this happen and the courage and determination to see these through. We've been waiting long enough. And we are both unsurprised by any of this and utterly bloody furious.

    Why attack Brown, someone who made ending child poverty his policy goal.
    Where's the vitriol for Cameron and Clegg, who destroyed the criminal justice system, or May, Johnson, Truss and Sunak who did nothing about VAWG in power and have done nothing since?
    Possibly prompted by this, which for all its good intentions, is a classic of the genre.

    In Jeffrey Epstein’s wider circle, women and girls were treated as less than human by powerful men acting far beyond the law. The sexual trafficking plotted by him and his fellow criminals is the most egregious example of a global network of wealthy and powerful men that thinks it can act with impunity. Nothing less than a century-defining rebalancing of power and accountability is equal to this moment and the trauma of the victims. This scandal is primarily about them and their pain.

    But..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,851

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
    She has been, she is into her second year in the job and the Tories are polling even worse than they did at the 2024 general election.

    She was elected to unite the right and push back Reform, she failed to do that and has lost Jenrick, Kruger, Braverman, Rosindell etc to Reform and just boosted Farage further.

    She also has trashed centrists in her party and has less appeal to swing voters than Cleverly. Tory MPs have given her plenty of chances but if the Tories bomb in May Kemi will be gone
    In January the conservatives led labour in 14 polls - level in 2 - within 1% in 4 and you use one 16% poll to talk about Kemi defenestration

    I do not understand your agenda nor would Cleverly
    Latest Nowcast poll average is Reform 29.9%, Labour 20%, Conservatives 18.6%, Greens 13.3%, LDs 12.4%
    https://electionmaps.uk/polling/vi

    Its seat forecast is Reform 345, Labour 94, LDs 77, SNP 44, Conservatives 39, Greens 18

    So Tories 3rd on votes and 5th on seats

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,051
    HYUFD said:

    It is remarkable how one man has been able to infiltrate the labour party over decades with an influence that borders on insanity

    It happens in politics, look at Jeffrey Archer, had a strong influence on three consecutive Tory leaders over a quarter of a century despite everybody knowing he was dodgy as hell.
    Indeed

    Many years ago I had to host Archer at an event on behalf of the organisations President and he was an engaging person

    This before his fall in grace but he had energy and personality
    He was also a bestselling novelist and athlete
    Frankly, being in politics seems to have been a complete waste and distraction for him given his success as a novelist.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,232

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Things take time. If a leader can't be given the space to develop their ideas at the start of opposition after fourteen years in power and a diabolical defeat, when can they?

    Mikel Arteta took Arsenal to consecutive eighth place finishes in his first two seasons in charge, but the board believed in him, gave him time, and he has transformed the club to the point where they are regarded as one of the top three sides in the world. Other clubs roll the dice and make the situation worse.

    Kemi has a unique opportunity, her personal ratings are improving fast and, if that continues, the Tories polling will surely follow
    She has been, she is into her second year in the job and the Tories are polling even worse than they did at the 2024 general election.

    She was elected to unite the right and push back Reform, she failed to do that and has lost Jenrick, Kruger, Braverman, Rosindell etc to Reform and just boosted Farage further.

    She also has trashed centrists in her party and has less appeal to swing voters than Cleverly. Tory MPs have given her plenty of chances but if the Tories bomb in May Kemi will be gone
    In January the conservatives led labour in 14 polls - level in 2 - within 1% in 4 and you use one 16% poll to talk about Kemi defenestration

    I do not understand your agenda nor would Cleverly
    But you're missing the point, which is focussing the minds of Tory MPs.

    Not a single poll in January had the Tories polling above their 2024 general election score.

    14 out of 24 polls had the Tory VI in the teens.

    The Tories have gone backwards under Kemi.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,562

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Starmer resigned then yes a Healey or Benn could replace Sir Keir. Yet there is no sign Starmer will resign and after last night’s Opinium poll putting Labour 7% ahead of the Tories and Reform
    unchanged despite Mandelson, why would he? Rayner would also need 81 MPs to challenge Starmer and no sign of that at present.

    Indeed unless Kemi improves the Tory voteshare and manages to see the Conservatives beat Labour on the NEV after the May local and devolved elections it will likely be her going not Starmer. Not least as Tory MPs have no mercy historically for leaders clearly failing to perform electorally unlike Labour MPs

    The ladies on the panel on Trevor Phillips furiously attacked the man's club in politics which you certainly qualify for with your relentless anti Kemi propaganda

    The Telegraph does not agree with you

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/
    I am not anti Kemi because she is a woman, the Japanese PM is female and has won a landslide re election victory today.

    If Kemi was making progress in the polls she would be fine but she isn’t, the Tories are now trailing even a deeply unpopular Labour government let alone Reform. She has to improve that to survive
    Didnt you read the telegraph this morning ?

    Kemi Badenoch: ‘Starmer knew Mandelson was still friends with Epstein. He chose not to care’


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/02/07/kemi-badenoch-interview-starmer-mandelson-epstein/

    I am not here to defend Starmer but unless she has evidence to back that up I suspect Badenoch's loose tongue is getting the better of her AGAIN.

    Eh? He did know - he has admitted it. And he did appoint him regardless 'chose not to care' - she's not making any sort of new claim.
    Starmer was pressed on the issue in January 20024 by Jim Pickard of the FT and said "I know as much as you"

    https://x.com/timmyvoe/status/2018310521460514896?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,051
    Feels like HYUFD has really gone off Kemi in the last couple of weeks, which feels significant to me as a weathervane .
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