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Rage against the machine – charting the rise of outsider parties – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,138

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Even as an operative hostile to this Government you would probably still run an operation more positive to this Government than SweeneyMcSweeneyface.
    A competent government helps us all, I am not one of those traitors who wants to see the UK struggle.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,400
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,226
    Rishi is still 40 days ahead of Starmer in terms of length of stay in No 10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,095
    Hungary's impending change of leader is likely to be of more geopolitical significance than is ours.

    The obese Russian-backed kleptocrat Victor Orban blanketed Hungary with Russian propaganda billboards going into the April election. Now Hungarians are tearing them down.
    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/2019150067152945452
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,138

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Unfortunately you got blackballed by Larry the cat.
    I love cats and cats love me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.

    In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.

    One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/02/05/marco-rubio-raised-alarm-with-labour-over-mandelson/

    “Links to China”

    With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
    I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?

    It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
    No, there's very little on that score.
    In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.

    It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
    It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t?page=4
    Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
    I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
    Nobody gets what amounted to a state funeral in Israel without having done _something_.

    I find it hard to believe his daughter didn't know / wasn't involved.
    How often did Epstein visit Israel ?

    Based on passport photos and paperwork, Jeffrey Epstein appears to have been issued Russian visas in (at minimum) 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2018 (this one valid till 2021)...
    https://x.com/eyepatch_man/status/2019224780931752306
    How else does one procure teenage Russian girls for prostitution?

    I suspect the link to Barak and Mossad are more sinister from a political perspective. Although wasn't Cap'n Bob a double agent?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi is still 40 days ahead of Starmer in terms of length of stay in No 10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure

    A Labour leadership contest will take 6 weeks or more. If Starmer announces he's going right now, he'll remain in post until a new leader is picked, so he'll overtake Rishi's tenure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,095
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.

    In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.

    One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/02/05/marco-rubio-raised-alarm-with-labour-over-mandelson/

    “Links to China”

    With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
    I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?

    It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
    No, there's very little on that score.
    In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.

    It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
    It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t?page=4
    Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
    I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
    Nobody gets what amounted to a state funeral in Israel without having done _something_.

    I find it hard to believe his daughter didn't know / wasn't involved.
    How often did Epstein visit Israel ?

    Based on passport photos and paperwork, Jeffrey Epstein appears to have been issued Russian visas in (at minimum) 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2018 (this one valid till 2021)...
    https://x.com/eyepatch_man/status/2019224780931752306
    Epstein received a Russian visa at the invitation of FSB veterans.

    In 2011, Jeffrey Epstein listed the Vympel public organization as the inviting organization in his Russian visa application.

    Vympel is the name of the FSB special forces unit that conducts counterterrorism operations.

    Sergey Belyakov, a graduate of the FSB Academy, helped Epstein obtain the invitation letter from the Vympel veterans. He also provided Epstein with an invitation letter to Russia from the Alliance of Pension Funds in 2018.

    https://x.com/SavchenkoReview/status/2019379389952143601
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,041

    It's worth remembering that if the Epstein affair hadn't involved young girls, but women over the age of consent, we still wouldn't know very much about Mandelson's return to power and influence.

    But the Epstein affair involved him being imprisoned for trafficking young girls more than fifteen years ago. That was known long before Starmer brought Mandy back in the fold
    Yes indeed - but if Epstein et al had been trafficking women over the age of consent, we wouldn't know about it. We jolly well should know about it, but it's only the understandable public anger and disgust about paedophilia that has brought this to light.
    It mainly did, sort of. For instance, Virginia Giuffre was 17 when Andrew put his arm round her. The underage business comes partly from American states having different ages of consent between 16 and 18, and partly from trafficking (across US states) laws, although of course there were younger girls too.

    But you are right and it is this public disgust which the Prime Minister appears not to recognise. Starmer is still talking about vetting, lies and leaks while the public instinctively recoils from the paedo angle.
  • kenoughkenough Posts: 4

    This has only one ending and that is Starmer's premiership

    How and when is the question but every day he remains in office his government is paralyzed

    The press are not going to let up and whenever he speaks he will face a torrent of hostile questions

    Labour mps need to find a way to end this and quickly



    I sense it’s already blowing over. We’ve seen before, to be continuously newsworthy things need “new legs”. I can’t see how new legs can be invented for this, other than another tranche of emails with some new or more shocking angle in it. It’s pretty obvious the Snoopy Services didn’t tell him any more than already publicly known. Which is interesting, I don’t see it as failure of Snoopy Services. It might be CIA knew but didn’t tell the British. Or Vice Versa. Or MI6 not telling MI5. They are a funny lot, Secret Services, give me impression they keep secrets, which I think they should share more.

    Bang an audience over and over with same thing and they get bored and cheesed off with it. We know exactly this from Currygate for example - huge news for a day or so, forcing Labour and Deputy into quit threats, real jeopardy for them. Today it’s like “what?” We can’t actually mention Currygate now without being ridiculed for pushing it too far.

    This is very different of course. Starmer has definitely taken a huge hit - how can he say “for me it’s about the victims first” when he knowingly hired someone who went back being friends AFTER a conviction.

    Politically, in a strange sort of way politics works, in his moment of honesty at PMQs, Starmer actually helped himself a bit. Imagine if he actually tried taking the opposite route, and lying for short term game - then he really would be in deeper trouble today, and tomorrow.

    Some other news stories don’t deserve to get buried too. This “should play” in the by election imo

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15530651/Fury-Green-leader-celebrating-Palestine-Action-sledgehammer-attack.html

    I can’t believe anyone votes green.

    The best way of as many Labour MP's saving their seats is to let Starmer limp on and at the very least take all the flak for the May elections.

    They can't go into the next election with him as leader though.

    Probably best chance of keeping seats is Angela Rayner as she can at least try and claim she's not part of the establishment.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,323
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    The Telegraph has banned articles about Iran?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935
    “Fury at Green leader for celebrating policewoman with 'shattered spine' from sledgehammer attack”

    BJO - please explain.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,001

    https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/2019214882420195345

    NBC: "You talked about the weapon, the 'discombobulator'..."

    @POTUS: "Well, I'm not allowed to talk about it... Let me just tell you, you know what it does? None of their equipment works... Everything was discombobulated... We lost no men, and we lost no equipment."

    Let me tell you, they tested it on my speech, and now I have the greatest, most, bestest discombobulated speech in the history of the world.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Even as an operative hostile to this Government you would probably still run an operation more positive to this Government than SweeneyMcSweeneyface.
    A competent government helps us all, I am not one of those traitors who wants to see the UK struggle.

    I was going to be a grammatical smart arse ( as is the way on PB) and suggest what kind of traitor then? And suddenly my mind has automatically defaulted to Boris Johnson, Brexit and KGB parties in Italy.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164

    “Fury at Green leader for celebrating policewoman with 'shattered spine' from sledgehammer attack”

    BJO - please explain.

    Citation?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,363
    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Even as an operative hostile to this Government you would probably still run an operation more positive to this Government than SweeneyMcSweeneyface.
    A competent government helps us all, I am not one of those traitors who wants to see the UK struggle.
    Wait. What did you do to kittens?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,964
    edited 2:17PM

    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi is still 40 days ahead of Starmer in terms of length of stay in No 10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure

    A Labour leadership contest will take 6 weeks or more. If Starmer announces he's going right now, he'll remain in post until a new leader is picked, so he'll overtake Rishi's tenure.
    You can get 1.5 Starmer to still be there on 1st April. Takes nerve and a decent stake to make it worthwhile but I'd say that's value. It settles on the date that a new permanent leader of the party is announced.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,256
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935

    “Fury at Green leader for celebrating policewoman with 'shattered spine' from sledgehammer attack”

    BJO - please explain.

    Citation?
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15530651/Fury-Green-leader-celebrating-Palestine-Action-sledgehammer-attack.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,095

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.

    In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.

    One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/02/05/marco-rubio-raised-alarm-with-labour-over-mandelson/

    “Links to China”

    With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
    I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?

    It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
    No, there's very little on that score.
    In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.

    It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
    It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t?page=4
    Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
    I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
    Nobody gets what amounted to a state funeral in Israel without having done _something_.

    I find it hard to believe his daughter didn't know / wasn't involved.
    How often did Epstein visit Israel ?

    Based on passport photos and paperwork, Jeffrey Epstein appears to have been issued Russian visas in (at minimum) 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2018 (this one valid till 2021)...
    https://x.com/eyepatch_man/status/2019224780931752306
    How else does one procure teenage Russian girls for prostitution?

    I suspect the link to Barak and Mossad are more sinister from a political perspective. Although wasn't Cap'n Bob a double agent?
    Barak seems to have been quite interested in Epstein's Russian connections.
    For example:
    https://www.jpost.com/international/article-885544
    Former prime minister Ehud Barak told Jeffrey Epstein that Israel could “easily absorb another million” immigrants from Russian-speaking countries, according to an undated recording of a conversation released as part of the latest wave of Epstein files documents that were released...
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 392

    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi is still 40 days ahead of Starmer in terms of length of stay in No 10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure

    A Labour leadership contest will take 6 weeks or more. If Starmer announces he's going right now, he'll remain in post until a new leader is picked, so he'll overtake Rishi's tenure.
    How pathetic to be making that calculation.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,256
    Nigelb said:

    Hungary's impending change of leader is likely to be of more geopolitical significance than is ours.

    The obese Russian-backed kleptocrat Victor Orban blanketed Hungary with Russian propaganda billboards going into the April election. Now Hungarians are tearing them down.
    https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/2019150067152945452

    Things aren't going smoothly for obese Russian-backed kleptocrats anywhere.
    Maybe it's a novel virus?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    It would be cheaper just to move it to an industrial estate near Walsall.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,363

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    It would be cheaper just to move it to an industrial estate near Walsall.
    I cannot think how on earth it could cost anywhere near that
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,138

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Even as an operative hostile to this Government you would probably still run an operation more positive to this Government than SweeneyMcSweeneyface.
    A competent government helps us all, I am not one of those traitors who wants to see the UK struggle.
    Wait. What did you do to kittens?
    Metaphorical kittens.

    I am good at doing the unpleasant stuff that other people struggle to do on ethical/moral/squeamish grounds.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,256

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    It would be cheaper just to move it to an industrial estate near Walsall.
    I cannot think how on earth it could cost anywhere near that
    Surely you could burn it down and replace it with an exact replica for a fraction of the cost?
    Like Notre Dame.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,468

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    It would be cheaper just to move it to an industrial estate near Walsall.
    I cannot think how on earth it could cost anywhere near that
    Insisting on not moving out while the work is being done adds a lot of billions to the bill
  • kenoughkenough Posts: 4
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    Must be another Sean Thomas artlessly recycling your dreary Spectator ramblings then.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,651

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Even as an operative hostile to this Government you would probably still run an operation more positive to this Government than SweeneyMcSweeneyface.
    A competent government helps us all, I am not one of those traitors who wants to see the UK struggle.
    Wait. What did you do to kittens?
    Metaphorical kittens.

    I am good at doing the unpleasant stuff that other people struggle to do on ethical/moral/squeamish grounds.
    Dial down the hyperbole, please :lol:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164
    edited 2:28PM

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    It would be cheaper just to move it to an industrial estate near Walsall.
    The Walsall Pact.
    Living in the West Midlands as a child I always assumed Walsall was geopolitically more important than Warsaw.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,651
    edited 2:25PM
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.

    In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.

    One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/02/05/marco-rubio-raised-alarm-with-labour-over-mandelson/

    “Links to China”

    With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
    I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?

    It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
    No, there's very little on that score.
    In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.

    It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
    It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t?page=4
    Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
    I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
    Nobody gets what amounted to a state funeral in Israel without having done _something_.

    I find it hard to believe his daughter didn't know / wasn't involved.
    How often did Epstein visit Israel ?

    Based on passport photos and paperwork, Jeffrey Epstein appears to have been issued Russian visas in (at minimum) 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2018 (this one valid till 2021)...
    https://x.com/eyepatch_man/status/2019224780931752306
    How else does one procure teenage Russian girls for prostitution?

    I suspect the link to Barak and Mossad are more sinister from a political perspective. Although wasn't Cap'n Bob a double agent?
    Barak seems to have been quite interested in Epstein's Russian connections.
    For example:
    https://www.jpost.com/international/article-885544
    Former prime minister Ehud Barak told Jeffrey Epstein that Israel could “easily absorb another million” immigrants from Russian-speaking countries, according to an undated recording of a conversation released as part of the latest wave of Epstein files documents that were released...
    IIRC Russian is the third-most spoken language in Israel, after Hebrew and Arabic.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    Even as an operative hostile to this Government you would probably still run an operation more positive to this Government than SweeneyMcSweeneyface.
    A competent government helps us all, I am not one of those traitors who wants to see the UK struggle.
    Wait. What did you do to kittens?
    Metaphorical kittens.

    I am good at doing the unpleasant stuff that other people struggle to do on ethical/moral/squeamish grounds.
    "What breed is your new kitten? Is it an Abyssinian? Burmese? Scottish fold? Maine Coon?"

    "No, it's a metaphorical."
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578
    dixiedean said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    It would be cheaper just to move it to an industrial estate near Walsall.
    I cannot think how on earth it could cost anywhere near that
    Surely you could burn it down and replace it with an exact replica for a fraction of the cost?
    Like Notre Dame.
    Notre Dame = 4,800 square metres

    Palace of Westminster = 112,476 square metres
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,095

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,138
    edited 2:28PM

    So we're all agreed on Mandelson as next Lab leader then?

    That’s the afternoon thread.

    It was raised in 2009/10 during the dark days of the Brown premiership, regularly on PB.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164

    So we're all agreed on Mandelson as next Lab leader then?

    Well he's retired from the Lords and relinquished his title. It was a path trodden (ultimately to no avail) by Tony Benn, so why not?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578
    edited 2:30PM

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.

    In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.

    One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/02/05/marco-rubio-raised-alarm-with-labour-over-mandelson/

    “Links to China”

    With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
    I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?

    It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
    No, there's very little on that score.
    In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.

    It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
    It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t?page=4
    Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
    I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
    Nobody gets what amounted to a state funeral in Israel without having done _something_.

    I find it hard to believe his daughter didn't know / wasn't involved.
    How often did Epstein visit Israel ?

    Based on passport photos and paperwork, Jeffrey Epstein appears to have been issued Russian visas in (at minimum) 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2018 (this one valid till 2021)...
    https://x.com/eyepatch_man/status/2019224780931752306
    How else does one procure teenage Russian girls for prostitution?

    I suspect the link to Barak and Mossad are more sinister from a political perspective. Although wasn't Cap'n Bob a double agent?
    Barak seems to have been quite interested in Epstein's Russian connections.
    For example:
    https://www.jpost.com/international/article-885544
    Former prime minister Ehud Barak told Jeffrey Epstein that Israel could “easily absorb another million” immigrants from Russian-speaking countries, according to an undated recording of a conversation released as part of the latest wave of Epstein files documents that were released...
    IIRC Russian is the third-most spoken language in Israel, after Hebrew and Arabic.
    Russian might be the third-commonest first language, but English is very widely spoken. I'd guess more people speak English.

    But, yes, lots of Russian spoken, because lots of Russians immigrated in recent decades.

    EDIT: Yes, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Israel

    It is estimated that over 85% of Israelis can speak English to some extent.[2] Russian is spoken by about 20% of the Israeli population, mainly due to the large immigrant population from the former Soviet Union. In addition, the 19th edition of Ethnologue lists 36 languages and dialects spoken through Israel.[3]

    According to a 2011 Government Social Survey of Israelis over 20 years of age, 49% report Hebrew as their native language, Arabic 18%, Russian 15%, Yiddish 2%, French 2%, English 2%, Spanish 1.6%, and 10% other languages (including Romanian, and Amharic, which were not offered as answers by the survey). This study also noted that 90% of Israeli Jews and over 60% of Israeli Arabs have a good understanding of Hebrew.[4]
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,252

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Don't know where that figure comes from. The two options that have just been recommended will be between 8.4 to 12.5 billion for the full decant and 11.8 to 18.7 billion for the partial decant option. You can see the report herw:

    https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/616/restoration-and-renewal-client-board/publications/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,910
    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,226
    edited 2:30PM
    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    Move parliament to Barnsley and use the current building for historical tours. The cost for restoration probably won't be as high if it's not being used all the time.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,823
    edited 2:31PM

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    I have a vision of a bloke, fag hanging out of his mouth, sharp intake of breath, tricky one, gonna cost you, what you reckon Barry, yeah, that big clock thing needing doing too Mr....whoever did it last, made a right balls up.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,910

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    I have a vision of a bloke, fag hanging out of his mouth, sharp intake of breath, tricky one, gonna cost you, what you reckon Barry, yeah, that big clock thing needing doing too Mr....whoever did it last, made a right balls up.
    Thats a Quote you give when you look at the job and think 'fuck that'
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    Move parliament to Barnsley and use the current building for historical tours. The cost for restoration probably won't be as high if it's not being used all the time.
    Good call. Half the anticipated Reform MPs could commute and save on expenses.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,764
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    Move parliament to Barnsley and use the current building for historical tours. The cost for restoration probably won't be as high if it's not being used all the time.
    They could use Wentworth Woodhouse in Rotherham for a bit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 987

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    I suspect there may be secret tunnels etc etc cunningly hidden in that budget
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164
    kenough said:

    Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?

    Like what ?

    Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's

    I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
    Now then, now then.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935
    edited 2:40PM
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?

    But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷‍♀️

    Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.

    It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164
    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi is still 40 days ahead of Starmer in terms of length of stay in No 10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure

    40 days is a long time in politics.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,383
    Parliament rebuild cost. Is it a dead cat on the table and how many dead cats will be offered up.?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578

    Parliament rebuild cost. Is it a dead cat on the table and how many dead cats will be offered up.?

    @TheScreamingEagles apparently has a large supply of them...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,525
    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    Kemi up to give Starmer a kicking. She actually nailed it, Starmer is trying to play the victim. Now calling out Powell and Hermer.

    I thought she did well yesterday. She seems to be gaining in confidence and competence, I personally think whatever happens in May the Tories should stick with her. But then I’m not a Tory and not likely to vote for them. But she has (PB klaxon time) surprised on the upside.
    What?

    Sky showed her 6 minute scripted speech retrospectively after Starmer finished.

    A 2 minute rehash of what she said yesterday
    A 2 minute attack on Farage and Reform
    A 2 minute repeat of the old were rebuilding, we're different my party script.

    Lots of sips of water and paper shuffling

    On to questions from a z list of journos as the big hitters are with Starmer or Farage

    Distinctly c grade
    Sums up Kemi and the Tories right now

    They are talking to themselves, no one outside the room is listening.
    You seem disproportionately furious at Kemi. Are you a spurned ex-boyfriend?
    A bit unkind - there seems a general view she's improved but she's hardly setting the world on fire either.
    Well no. But nor does she seem the major focus of all this. Of Brixian's 59 posts, a good half seem to have been furious denunciations of Kemi.
    I take back my barb about being a spurned ex-boyfriend: on reflection that was a bit nasty. But I'm baffled by the way Kemi seems to be the target of our new poster's ire.
    It’s about creating a narrative. In the narrative, Starmer is all good and opposition all bad.

    Presumably the poster believes that politicians and journalists still read PB en mass.

    I remember when Farmer Tupac did this 24/7
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,221
    scampi25 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi is still 40 days ahead of Starmer in terms of length of stay in No 10.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure

    A Labour leadership contest will take 6 weeks or more. If Starmer announces he's going right now, he'll remain in post until a new leader is picked, so he'll overtake Rishi's tenure.
    How pathetic to be making that calculation.
    It's a betting site, Betfair market is new permanent leader in place by 1st April. So he'd have to go now. Penny has dropped and NO's gone from 1.4 to 1.06 before I could top up my balance.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,252

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,536
    Come on, we all know it's going to be waaay more than £40 Bn. Anyone involved in this will be subbing it out plenty of times, with someone tootling about on their phone at £5,000 an hour once their overheads are taken into consideration.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,468

    Parliament rebuild cost. Is it a dead cat on the table and how many dead cats will be offered up.?

    It's a project where I dread to think how much has been spent trying to work out what the cost is. I knew people working on the IT side of Parliament's rebuilding project 12 years ago.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,816

    Starmer is doomed.
    Big G has got the bit between his teeth, and his relentless posts saying "Go Now!" will wear Starmer down sooner rather than later.

    To be fair we used to have a poster who posted "general election now" and "lockdown now" all day, every day.

    With Starmer lots posted that he was done, its over etc. Well it might be, but he's still there and showing no obvious signs of budging. A hammering in May is baked in. Will that be the trigger?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,323
    edited 2:45PM

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?

    But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷‍♀️

    Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.

    It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
    I think it was Gove with the Mandelson article, to be fair.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    I can’t see it on sky yet.

    Are you sure Sky reported it?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,770
    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 859
    Re Parliament - i am sick of Gammons complsing about cost of Senedd expansion..while pissing away this obscene sum ...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?

    But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷‍♀️

    Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.

    It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
    I think it was Gove with the Mandelson article, to be fair.
    Oh. That’s perfectly alright then. We don’t expect any better from Gove.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,172
    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    Oh do sod off.

    This is great news. My daughter is the project manager for a large chunk of this

    Trebles all round.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,252
    Cookie said:

    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
    The report published a few hours ago says it will cost between 8.4 to 12.5 billion
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,816
    Stereodog said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Don't know where that figure comes from. The two options that have just been recommended will be between 8.4 to 12.5 billion for the full decant and 11.8 to 18.7 billion for the partial decant option. You can see the report herw:

    https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/616/restoration-and-renewal-client-board/publications/
    Would you have that much faith in those numbers given how almost all projects in the UK end up costing far more than the initial suggested figure?
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 470

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    If the Epstein stuff hadn't been released Mandelson would still be doing a good job as US ambassador (whilst no doubt breaking laws, making money for his connections and himself, and showing complete disregard for the vulnerable).

    It is a rare occurrence in an almost unique situation, where I think holding our noses was potentially worthwhile. The public disclosures, which perhaps should have been foreseen, obviously made it untenable but it was a reasonable appointment at the time.
    Yeah. In all honesty I knew he was a slime ball but I was foolish enough think he was our slime ball.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,400

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?

    But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷‍♀️

    Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.

    It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
    You’re just laughably stupid

    Get your basic facts right, first.. Then comes the invective

    DERRR
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,226
    "Spain announces plans to ban social media for under-16s"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y2nddvmryo
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,267
    @Steven_Swinford
    BREAKING:

    Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence

    The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded

    It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador

    The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published

    Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government

    A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published

    In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578
    Cookie said:

    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
    The £40 billion figures is actually for only one plan, a phased approach taking 38–61 years! So, that's less than £1 billion per year, but over a long time. Other approaches, like a full decant, cost much less, £15 billion. See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-parliament-palace-of-westminster-houses-b1269773.html
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,887
    >

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    What would it take to restore its reputation?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,400
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
    lol

    “Darling, I’m going to write about boiling my wooden spoons again”

    “Oh Adrian, that’s inspired, I am lucky to be both your editor and your wife”
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935

    Starmer is doomed.
    Big G has got the bit between his teeth, and his relentless posts saying "Go Now!" will wear Starmer down sooner rather than later.

    To be fair we used to have a poster who posted "general election now" and "lockdown now" all day, every day.

    With Starmer lots posted that he was done, its over etc. Well it might be, but he's still there and showing no obvious signs of budging. A hammering in May is baked in. Will that be the trigger?
    To be honest, the government couldn’t have got a better BoE forecast today. Inflation down to 2% by summer, and then stuck there at 2% dragging interest rates down. And 2% growth in 2028. Someone in charge of Labour will get the benefit of all that come May 3rd 2029.

    I’ve read a lot of political history - economy in sweet spot just at time for elections, regardless everything that’s gone on earlier in Parliament, does tend to make a difference.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,525

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.

    In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.

    One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2026/02/05/marco-rubio-raised-alarm-with-labour-over-mandelson/

    “Links to China”

    With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
    I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?

    It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
    No, there's very little on that score.
    In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.

    It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
    It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t?page=4
    Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
    I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
    There are still loads of questions. You don't have to go full tin foil to think he might have been up to more than noncing.
    It certainly doesn’t take much to imagine that Epstein passed information on U.K. government policy to various rich chums. They rewarded him with “investments” in his “fund”

    Said rich chums not only used the info for insider trading, but passed it on to their national intelligence agencies.

    For a Russian oligarch, providing the FSB with accurate intel on the U.K. would put a gold star in their file. Make their windows safer, if nothing else.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,437
    If Starmer’s got it as cheap as £40bn, who’s he giving parliament away to?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,240
    kenough said:

    Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?

    Like what ?

    Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's

    I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
    And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.

    We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,910
    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    BREAKING:

    Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence

    The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded

    It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador

    The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published

    Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government

    A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published

    In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**

    Slow acting poison. Delightful
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,651

    >

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    What would it take to restore its reputation?

    Westminster Spaceport. Never will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,256
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
    lol

    “Darling, I’m going to write about boiling my wooden spoons again”

    “Oh Adrian, that’s inspired, I am lucky to be both your editor and your wife”
    That's where you're going wrong then.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,578
    MaxPB said:


    kenough said:

    Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?

    Like what ?

    Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's

    I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
    And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.

    We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
    Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,226
    "When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".

    Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".

    Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czx3lq460n6t
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,352
    edited 3:00PM
    Scott_xP said:

    In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**

    Months of entertainment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,787

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/india/uk-asks-air-india-explain-boeing-dreamliner-fuel-switch-incident-2026-02-04/

    Bit of background - after the Air India crash, the apparent cause was one of the pilots shutting the engines down, using the main fuel switches. There was evidence there were manually operated.

    The family of the pilot and the pilots union in India tried to find a way that it could be a technical fault.

    Then, the above - an Air India pilot, about to fly out of LHR logged an apparent fault with the fuel switches. Then flew the flight anyway.

    The U.K. authorities are now demanding to know the details of the failure*, since flying with a non 100% functional fuel switch would be a massive breach of U.K. safety rules.

    So either it was someone smashing the safety rules (Airline could get in serious trouble) or they are telling pork pies.

    *if it actually happened.

    The amazing thing is that, having allegedly found an issue with the switch, they decided to carry out a nine-hour flight with it. Remember that they have had one plane crash already with this issue, and a genuinely faulty switch could potentially shut down an engine in flight.

    They should of course have had the switch replaced at Heathrow, but that would have meant the old one ended up either back at Boeing or in the hands of the AAIB. Neither of which suit Air India’s narrative of faulty switches.

    So the CAA has asked Air India to explain themselves, with a thinly veiled threat to ban them from the UK if they can’t adequately respond. That’s not an idle threat either, there’s a long list of banned airlines with poor safety records. EU and US would likely copy any UK ban as well, until the issue is resolved.
    Isn't that quite routine, primarily because they have to burn fuel off. As long as they are within ETOPS/EROPS of course.
    Is what routine, shutting down an engine in flight? No, definitely not. ETOPS rules plan for safety margins if it happens, but it’s never done on purpose.
    NImrods routinely did it but those crews would have welcomed a crash to get away from the Honkers.
    Guys in blue do lots of silly things that civvy aviation definitely don’t. Reversers in flight is a good one, or tactical approaches. Most airlines use derated takeoffs as well, because they have to pay for their own engine maintenance. Look up “balanced field” or “assumed temperature”.
    I have a wealth of experience of investigating air crashes. (OK, that amounts to me being an avid viewer of "Air Crash Investigation" on repeat, one of the best things to come out of Canada.) That experience tells me that very many of the incidents reported come about when a vastly experienced former air force pilot is flying a civilian airliner. Some just can't seem to get rid of an ingrained trained instinct to take risks in order to complete the mission, come what may.
    Yes it was a big problem a few decades ago, and the Western airlines spent a lot of time and effort on what’s called Crew Resource Management. The wake-up call was the Teneriffe crash in 1977.

    Some other cultures, especially in Asia, still find this very difficult, although most are making steady progress.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,935
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
    lol

    “Darling, I’m going to write about boiling my wooden spoons again”

    “Oh Adrian, that’s inspired, I am lucky to be both your editor and your wife”
    I can’t think of an article more banal than boiling wooden spoons. Except perhaps, weather in February tends to be a bit over cast and dull.

    Is Adrian the sort to go “half four. And dark already”
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164
    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    I was being very impish. I have been to Trump Tower and it is a blight on 5th Avenue.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?

    But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷‍♀️

    Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.

    It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
    You’re just laughably stupid

    Get your basic facts right, first.. Then comes the invective

    DERRR
    Know when you've been banged to rights.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,400

    Been out - has McSweeney resigned yet?

    I’ve had some bloke on the phone offering me the job of the PM’s Chief of Staff.
    You'd be great with all that free advice from the PB glitterati. What could possibly go wrong?
    I was told about a decade ago there were two jobs that were perfect for me (well three).

    1) Government Chief Whip, my mixture of humour and threats would be brilliant for the role, plus I am very good at drowning kittens as a former boss observed

    2) PM’s Chief of Staff for the same reasons as 1)

    3) Press Secretary, every press conference would be box office with erm my memorable phrasing.
    This comment is so CRINGE it is way off the Cringe Dial and needs a new Ultra Cringe Dial made of Resist-o-Cringe Cringeium from the anti-Cringe-mine-fields of Scrotum-Tightening-Shire, NoCringeLand
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,983

    Cookie said:

    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
    The £40 billion figures is actually for only one plan, a phased approach taking 38–61 years! So, that's less than £1 billion per year, but over a long time. Other approaches, like a full decant, cost much less, £15 billion. See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-parliament-palace-of-westminster-houses-b1269773.html
    They have to decant, it makes it so much harder and more expensive otherwise.

    I get genuinely furious how parliamentarians have pissed about with such a globally iconic building and made it so much more torturous.

    It'll never be popular to spend money on it, so delaying helped no-one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,987

    Scott_xP said:

    @Steven_Swinford
    BREAKING:

    Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence

    The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded

    It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador

    The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published

    Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government

    A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published

    In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**

    Slow acting poison. Delightful
    Aren't there some privacy issues with all that information?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,172

    MaxPB said:


    kenough said:

    Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?

    Like what ?

    Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's

    I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
    And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.

    We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
    Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
    So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.

    It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,368
    edited 3:05PM
    Andy_JS said:

    "Spain announces plans to ban social media for under-16s"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y2nddvmryo

    A couple more of those and it'll be bad for Irish GDP.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,095

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?

    But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷‍♀️

    Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.

    It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
    It was written by the editor.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,164

    Scott_xP said:

    In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**

    Months of entertainment.
    All good stuff.

    For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,240
    edited 3:04PM

    MaxPB said:


    kenough said:

    Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?

    Like what ?

    Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's

    I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
    And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.

    We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
    Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
    What's your point? Does that detract from the fact that for decades these liberal elites that people like you worship and help to shout down any opposing voices were guilty of mass rape and sexual abuse of children from across the world.

    Once again in attempting to get a gotcha you've put yourself on the wrong side of the argument.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,525

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?

    Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
    lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph

    But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
    Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
    lol

    “Darling, I’m going to write about boiling my wooden spoons again”

    “Oh Adrian, that’s inspired, I am lucky to be both your editor and your wife”
    I can’t think of an article more banal than boiling wooden spoons. Except perhaps, weather in February tends to be a bit over cast and dull.

    Is Adrian the sort to go “half four. And dark already”
    https://barnthespoon.com/courses-books-gifts/spoon-carving-day-class

    Just in case anyone needs this….
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,676
    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    They could turn part of the HoP into a golden ballroom.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,095
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Stereodog said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky

    40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament

    Absolutely ludicrous.
    Spend it on something productive.

    £800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.

    London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
    It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
    Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
    Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
    Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
    The £40 billion figures is actually for only one plan, a phased approach taking 38–61 years! So, that's less than £1 billion per year, but over a long time. Other approaches, like a full decant, cost much less, £15 billion. See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mps-parliament-palace-of-westminster-houses-b1269773.html
    They have to decant, it makes it so much harder and more expensive otherwise.

    I get genuinely furious how parliamentarians have pissed about with such a globally iconic building and made it so much more torturous.

    It'll never be popular to spend money on it, so delaying helped no-one.
    I'd be tempted to knock it down if it costs that much.
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