In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
All good stuff.
For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.
It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
Because they've redacted him out of it. That's why "don't" - don t - is repeatedly blanked out.
The "liberal elite" line is desperate stuff tbh. The difficulty for MAGA is the actual, ordinary left gives zero fucks about the likes of Gates and Clinton going down.
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
Months of squeaky bum time for Starmer 2026 exit date backers.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
That was supposed to be run by Hillary, you plonker. So no, they haven't.
The whole "why are we spending £x on y when we could be spending on z" is the epitome of fatuous zero-sum thinking that plagues political discourse.
£40b is too much, there are cheaper options, but Parliament is emblematic not only of London, but of the whole country. What would be the total cost, reputationally as well as financially, of watching it burn down? Basically says to the world that we couldn't be bothered looking after our own UNESCO World Heritage Site.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Marco Rubio warned Labour over the appointment of Lord Mandelson as ambassador to the United States.
In comments understood to have been relayed to Downing Street, the US secretary of state is believed to have expressed deep unease about the peer’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and links to China.
One well-placed source told The Telegraph there was a unanimous view of “what are you doing?” in the White House.
With every day that passes the Chagos Surrender becomes murkier yet more grimly explicable
I thought it was Russia everyone was worried about. Now Epstein was working with the Chinese?
It just gets worse and worse for Starmer.
No, there's very little on that score. In contrast, Russia, Russia money, Russian intelligence individuals, Russian trafficked women and Russian influence efforts are all over the Epstein files.
It seems pretty likely that Epstein worked for Russian intelligence, one way or another.
It's a point made very openly and succinctly by Frank Gardner:
Maxwell Snr was double / triple agent, definitely Mossad, highly likely Russian asset. Chances his daughter got into the same game?
I'd guess once you get involved in that world at that level you probably do some favours for all the agencies, whether Mossad, Russia, Chinese or indeed US and UK.
Nobody gets what amounted to a state funeral in Israel without having done _something_.
I find it hard to believe his daughter didn't know / wasn't involved.
How often did Epstein visit Israel ?
Based on passport photos and paperwork, Jeffrey Epstein appears to have been issued Russian visas in (at minimum) 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2015, and 2018 (this one valid till 2021)... https://x.com/eyepatch_man/status/2019224780931752306
How else does one procure teenage Russian girls for prostitution?
I suspect the link to Barak and Mossad are more sinister from a political perspective. Although wasn't Cap'n Bob a double agent?
Barak seems to have been quite interested in Epstein's Russian connections. For example: https://www.jpost.com/international/article-885544 Former prime minister Ehud Barak told Jeffrey Epstein that Israel could “easily absorb another million” immigrants from Russian-speaking countries, according to an undated recording of a conversation released as part of the latest wave of Epstein files documents that were released...
IIRC Russian is the third-most spoken language in Israel, after Hebrew and Arabic.
Don't immigrants have to have at least one Jewish great-grandmother?
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
Absolutely ludicrous. Spend it on something productive.
£800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.
London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
They have to decant, it makes it so much harder and more expensive otherwise.
I get genuinely furious how parliamentarians have pissed about with such a globally iconic building and made it so much more torturous.
It'll never be popular to spend money on it, so delaying helped no-one.
I don't think anything deserves a blank cheque, so the decant option is best, but those advocating doing nothing or making it a museum (which would still cost plenty) can go hang.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
What's your point? Does that detract from the fact that for decades these liberal elites that people like you worship and help to shout down any opposing voices were guilty of mass rape and sexual abuse of children from across the world.
Once again in attempting to get a gotcha you've put yourself on the wrong side of the argument.
Oh come, come Max. Half of Team Trump are in the frame, Lutnick, Bannon, Beavis and Butthead Trump and Trump himself.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.
It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
Because they've redacted him out of it. That's why "don't" - don t - is repeatedly blanked out.
Indeed, the extra time they're taking to redact everything is to protect Trump. I think his only defence is that he never went to the island but that seems completely hollow now that we've seen the emails. The nonsense accusations aren't enough to hang him but I do think there is substance to the emails where he has been mentioned and everything we haven't been allowed to see because of the careful redaction job to protect him.
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
Months of squeaky bum time for Starmer 2026 exit date backers.
I'm on permanent replacement 1st April, so it's only days
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
All good stuff.
For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
Im just waiting till Blair appears.
If he doesn't you are making an assertion which puts the site in legal jeopardy.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Slow acting poison. Delightful
Aren't there some privacy issues with all that information?
Presumably it's government related contact only, not personal messages, so anything on govt email, WhatsApp etc
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
Absolutely ludicrous. Spend it on something productive.
£800m for the current version of "levelling up"; fifty times that amount for a single historic building restoration.
London vs the regions perfectly illustrated.
It's like a one off tax of £750 on every adult in the UK. For one building. To be 'restored'
Trump is demolishing and rebuilding in the image of Trump Tower, both the Whitehouse and what used to be the Kennedy Centre for considerably less.
Honestly everyone is so dreary. The Houses of Parliament are one of the glories of 19th century neo gothic architecture. Do you really want it to burn down or fall into the river? Have you seen how bad the new East Wing of the White House looks in plans? We've had decades of councils and government departments moving out of magnificent historic buildings and all that happens is they become fancy hotels and apartments. There's a puritanism in the UK that seems to only be happy if anything involving government or politics happens in the dreariest buildings possible. Churchill's words about rebuilding the HoP after WW2 spring to mind "We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us,"
Yeah, but £40bn? "We were going to give you Northern Powerhouse Rail, but these buildings in London need doing up."
The whole "why are we spending £x on y when we could be spending on z" is the epitome of fatuous zero-sum thinking that plagues political discourse.
£40b is too much, there are cheaper options, but Parliament is emblematic not only of London, but of the whole country. What would be the total cost, reputationally as well as financially, of watching it burn down? Basically says to the world that we couldn't be bothered looking after our own UNESCO World Heritage Site.
Exactly. What a dreary signal.
If it were to burn down we'd never rebuild.
It may happen, as MPs are not going to approve 40bn or 15bn. They'll find a reason for more reviewing and patching.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
That was supposed to be run by Hillary, you plonker. So no, they haven't.
Her campaign manager actually, who has been implicated and used exactly the same language as these emails when talking about paedophilia and sexual abuse of children.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.
It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
Because they've redacted him out of it. That's why "don't" - don t - is repeatedly blanked out.
Of course thats possible. But then who else will be trawled up in the Democrat net when more is released. And since Trump ostensibly has had little to do with Epstein in recent years, it will be Trump the Democrat who did any crimes. Your conviction that Trump is being sheltered may be correct, on the other hand it might just be what you want to believe and we'll find a few more senior politicians from the Clinton or Obama years.
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
Shouldn't you have mentioned me by name? 1/10
Anyhow if we are talking treason "what about KGB parties?"
Peter Mandelson moaned about the “ocean of questions” asked about his “former life” during the vetting process for his ambassadorial gig, just as he was preparing to jet off to Washington. Signing off from the podcast he used to host, Times Radio’s How to Win an Election, Mandelson bade farewell to his fawning co-hosts with a tale of how “extraordinary” the checks were:
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?
Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph
But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
lol
“Darling, I’m going to write about boiling my wooden spoons again”
“Oh Adrian, that’s inspired, I am lucky to be both your editor and your wife”
I can’t think of an article more banal than boiling wooden spoons. Except perhaps, weather in February tends to be a bit over cast and dull.
Is Adrian the sort to go “half four. And dark already”
Oh yes. Its an art form in itself. Short form opinion pieces on trivia. He's made a go of it, and there should be no suggestion at all that his marriage to the editor plays a roll. None at all.
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, where do we bury the survivors?
Since most of the problems of the UK are the result of electing politicians, how can we get a House of Commons that
a) has the least effective/least involved MP's and b) save on the cost of rebuilding it and c) costs little to run?
Step forward Sinn Féin. Since Sinn Féin MPs do not take their seats in the UK House of Commons because they refuse to swear an oath of allegiance to the British monarch they have a policy of abstentionism. They also do not receive a parliamentary salary. And then there is the saving on all the flunkies, SPADs, support staff, heating etc. A completely empty chamber.
The HoL would be nobbled too as they will have nothing to revise ...
All we have to do is encourage Sinn Féin to put up 650 candidates. What could possibly be better?
Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?
Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph
But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
Adrian Chiles seems to manage it with consummate ease.
lol
“Darling, I’m going to write about boiling my wooden spoons again”
“Oh Adrian, that’s inspired, I am lucky to be both your editor and your wife”
I can’t think of an article more banal than boiling wooden spoons. Except perhaps, weather in February tends to be a bit over cast and dull.
Is Adrian the sort to go “half four. And dark already”
What is truly nauseating about that example of Guardian nepotism is that he doesn't need the gig, he's taking food from the mouths of less fortunate untalented relatives of senior Guardian executives.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.
It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
Because they've redacted him out of it. That's why "don't" - don t - is repeatedly blanked out.
Of course thats possible. But then who else will be trawled up in the Democrat net when more is released. And since Trump ostensibly has had little to do with Epstein in recent years, it will be Trump the Democrat who did any crimes. Your conviction that Trump is being sheltered may be correct, on the other hand it might just be what you want to believe and we'll find a few more senior politicians from the Clinton or Obama years.
The fact the DoJ have managed to do that kind of redaction while leaving actual uncensored naked photos of underage girls in basically tells you everything.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Peter Mandelson moaned about the “ocean of questions” asked about his “former life” during the vetting process for his ambassadorial gig, just as he was preparing to jet off to Washington. Signing off from the podcast he used to host, Times Radio’s How to Win an Election, Mandelson bade farewell to his fawning co-hosts with a tale of how “extraordinary” the checks were:
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
Since most of the problems of the UK are the result of electing politicians, how can we get a House of Commons that
a) has the least effective/least involved MP's and b) save on the cost of rebuilding it and c) costs little to run?
Step forward Sinn Féin. Since Sinn Féin MPs do not take their seats in the UK House of Commons because they refuse to swear an oath of allegiance to the British monarch they have a policy of abstentionism. They also do not receive a parliamentary salary. And then there is the saving on all the flunkies, SPADs, support staff, heating etc. A completely empty chamber.
The HoL would be nobbled too as they will have nothing to revise ...
All we have to do is encourage Sinn Féin to put up 650 candidates. What could possibly be better?
Or we could just get all the main parties to agree on mutual abstentionism in the national interest. Of coure it could all go wrong if an independent gets elected and ends up running the government single-handed.
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, where do we bury the survivors?
Behave, that post never loses saliency even after the millionth time of posting!
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
All good stuff.
For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
Im just waiting till Blair appears.
If he doesn't you are making an assertion which puts the site in legal jeopardy.
The Telegraph had picked up on a 2009 court application by Epstein to be released from house arrest so he could meet a senior British government figure in New York.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Hold on. The Met have asked that nothing be disclosed until their investigation is complete. This could run and run.
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, where do we bury the survivors?
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
All good stuff.
For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
Im just waiting till Blair appears.
If he doesn't you are making an assertion which puts the site in legal jeopardy.
Adrian Chiles the man who victim blamed a Jewish bloke for wearing his kippah while walking around Paris resulting him getting spat on and terrible abuse, asking what did you expect when you went to certain parts of the city. Those were the days.
Peter Mandelson moaned about the “ocean of questions” asked about his “former life” during the vetting process for his ambassadorial gig, just as he was preparing to jet off to Washington. Signing off from the podcast he used to host, Times Radio’s How to Win an Election, Mandelson bade farewell to his fawning co-hosts with a tale of how “extraordinary” the checks were:
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
The Telegraph had picked up on a 2009 court application by Epstein to be released from house arrest so he could meet a senior British government figure in New York.
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
All good stuff.
For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
Im just waiting till Blair appears.
If he doesn't you are making an assertion which puts the site in legal jeopardy.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Surely no politicians, no matter how stupid, are still using WhatsApp without having disappearing messages set?
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
It rather makes Crossrail's 19bn price tag look like a bargain.
Turn the place in to a museum.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, where do we bury the survivors?
Peter Mandelson moaned about the “ocean of questions” asked about his “former life” during the vetting process for his ambassadorial gig, just as he was preparing to jet off to Washington. Signing off from the podcast he used to host, Times Radio’s How to Win an Election, Mandelson bade farewell to his fawning co-hosts with a tale of how “extraordinary” the checks were:
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
Bemused by the money is not object (so long as we are talking about London) brigade arguing "what if Parliament burns down" as justification for spending £40bn on it, which will no doubt become £100bn all-in once done.
What if it does?
Notre Dame burnt down, and the French rebuilt it. At a tiny fraction of the cost per square metre.
Decant Parliament elsewhere, do the maintenance properly and affordably, but there should not be a blank cheque for anyone, including Parliament.
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Months of entertainment.
All good stuff.
For balance could you please summarise Trump jeopardy after the recent Epstein drop?
Im just waiting till Blair appears.
If he doesn't you are making an assertion which puts the site in legal jeopardy.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Surely no politicians, no matter how stupid, are still using WhatsApp without having disappearing messages set?
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
Shouldn't you have mentioned me by name? 1/10
Anyhow if we are talking treason "what about KGB parties?"
And what about if Kemi was better prepared?
I was commenting on style and flair. Merely reciting rival talking points isn’t quality WhatAboutery.
A good WhatAbout is like a fine rum. Lots of depth, flavour and nuance. A good Venezuelan, cask aged, perhaps.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Surely no politicians, no matter how stupid, are still using WhatsApp without having disappearing messages set?
Betting on stupid, with politicians, is like being allowed to bet on 7/8ths of a roulette wheel at favourable odds.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Surely no politicians, no matter how stupid, are still using WhatsApp without having disappearing messages set?
We are about to find out....
Anything interesting will be being deleted as we speak surely
Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?
If the Epstein stuff hadn't been released Mandelson would still be doing a good job as US ambassador (whilst no doubt breaking laws, making money for his connections and himself, and showing complete disregard for the vulnerable).
It is a rare occurrence in an almost unique situation, where I think holding our noses was potentially worthwhile. The public disclosures, which perhaps should have been foreseen, obviously made it untenable but it was a reasonable appointment at the time.
Yeah. In all honesty I knew he was a slime ball but I was foolish enough think he was our slime ball.
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, where do we bury the survivors?
Have you ever sifted sand through a screen?
Google AI just now:
"You don't bury survivors!
"Also, a bit of a geographical snag: Ukraine and the Republic of China (Taiwan) are about 8,000 kilometres apart, so that would be one heck of a long-distance crash.
"Would you like to explore some actual geography or perhaps some more classic brain teasers?
Question for Leon - which well known contributor to the Spectator published an article titled "Why Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump" ?
Also interested in why in 20+ articles in the Telegraph, the same contributor has made zero references to the massacres in Iran? Instead "suicidal penguins" and "I wet myself in a phone box".
lol, I’m but a humble contributor to the Knapper’s Gazette, so I can only dream of writing for the Telegraph
But how do you think journalism works, you dribbly, pungent cretin? Do you think columnists just say “OK, this week I’m writing about badgers” and the editors just say “oh OK, thanks so much”, or maybe - do you think - the editors say “No, we want you to write about THIS instead”
So, the Editor instructed you to write that Peter Mandelson is the best choice to handle Trump? You didn’t actually believe such twaddle?
But it was known to you both, Mandy climbed back in bed AFTER his friends conviction. 🤷♀️
Does publishing that mean you and your editor cannot, for fear of hypocrisy, say anything now - even with so much fun to be had? For all we know, reading an article like that from such distinguished and reliable source, may well have been the factor deciding what to do in the Prime Ministers mind.
It’s bad enough - the last thing we need is hypocritical journalists and newspapers! That would leave our country broken, rather than just in need of repair.
You’re just laughably stupid
Get your basic facts right, first.. Then comes the invective
On the subject of the Houses of Parliament, I understand the Chinese were willing to do the work for just $1bn, so long as they were allowed to fly in their own peple to do all the work.
Sadly, our elected representatives chose to waste taxpayer money, and now we're going to pay 50x that amount.
It reminds me a little like the aftermath of the EU vote here today. Gallows humour from those not on the winning team and grumpy vitriol from today's winners.
To steal a line from the Italian Job, "Look happy you b******, we won didn't we?"
It reminds me a little like the aftermath of the EU vote here today. Gallows humour from those not on the winning team and grumpy vitriol from today's winners.
To steal a line from the Italian Job, "Look happy you b******, we won didn't we?"
Must make a further complaint. About the state of the WhatAboutery here.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10 - Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
Shouldn't you have mentioned me by name? 1/10
Anyhow if we are talking treason "what about KGB parties?"
And what about if Kemi was better prepared?
I was commenting on style and flair. Merely reciting rival talking points isn’t quality WhatAboutery.
A good WhatAbout is like a fine rum. Lots of depth, flavour and nuance. A good Venezuelan, cask aged, perhaps.
When have I claimed to have style and flair?
Anyway, have you heard the one about Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary, tired, emotional and asleep on a Lombardi railway station bench?
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.
It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
You can tell there's been "little to nail Trump" by the calm way he responds to questions about it.
Or, in other words, pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Surely no politicians, no matter how stupid, are still using WhatsApp without having disappearing messages set?
Surely no parliament would permit proceedings not to be properly recorded and archived?
Shouldn't McSweeney simply do the decent thing and resign? No one thinks he's particularly good at what he does, and his continuing presence is killing his boss, his party and the government he serves. What's the point in sticking around? The media will give him a good job as a commentator and political seer; they always do.
Thing is he’s incredibly low profile, much more so than any recent equivalent. He might have the voice of a Scotch Frank Spencer with charisma to match, so who knows re media.
Slightly connectedly I heard Epstein speaking lat week for the first time, surprisingly milquetoast.
Peter Mandelson moaned about the “ocean of questions” asked about his “former life” during the vetting process for his ambassadorial gig, just as he was preparing to jet off to Washington. Signing off from the podcast he used to host, Times Radio’s How to Win an Election, Mandelson bade farewell to his fawning co-hosts with a tale of how “extraordinary” the checks were:
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
Standard person in power finding any rules burdensome.
He's right though about the process. All that time, effort and money spent on the vetting process and he still got the job, suggesting it was both burdensome and ineffective.
Bemused by the money is not object (so long as we are talking about London) brigade arguing "what if Parliament burns down" as justification for spending £40bn on it, which will no doubt become £100bn all-in once done.
What if it does?
Notre Dame burnt down, and the French rebuilt it. At a tiny fraction of the cost per square metre.
Decant Parliament elsewhere, do the maintenance properly and affordably, but there should not be a blank cheque for anyone, including Parliament.
It's not projected to cost 40 billion. It's projected to cost 8.4 to 12.5 billion if MPs pick the full decant option.
On the subject of the Houses of Parliament, I understand the Chinese were willing to do the work for just $1bn, so long as they were allowed to fly in their own peple to do all the work.
Sadly, our elected representatives chose to waste taxpayer money, and now we're going to pay 50x that amount.
Complete with a free recording system for everything done in the building?
It’s a deal, it’s as a steal. It’s the same of the fucking century.
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
It rather makes Crossrail's 19bn price tag look like a bargain.
Turn the place in to a museum.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Lots of land there. Brownfield sites.
Turning it into a museum would also cost a fortune.
Selling off the land for flats, by contrast, would be a net positive for the taxpayer, and would lower the cost of all housing.
Sir Keir Starmer, his ministers and advisers will be forced to disclose all their communications with Lord Mandelson - including WhatsApp messages and emails - as part of a mass disclosure of evidence
The Conservative party's "humble address" - a parliamentary mechanism used to force the publication of files and evidence - was deliberately broadly worded
It requires the disclosure of all "electronic communications and minutes of all meetings" between Mandelson and "ministers, government officials and special advisers" in the seven months he served as ambassador
The scope of the humble address means that messages that are nothing to do with Mandelson's appointment - including personal exchanges - will have to be published
Officials say that gathering the information will be a "huge" exercise that is likely to take months and has the potential to be politically explosive. Mandelson was close to most senior figures in Starmer's government
A revolt by Labour MPs on Wednesday also means the government will have no control over what is released. The Intelligence and Security Committee, a body of MPs and peers, will determine what is published
In Whitehall they are only beginning to wake up to the scale of this - ministers will be required to hand over all their messages. There will be thousands of them. The process will take **months**
Slow acting poison. Delightful
Aren't there some privacy issues with all that information?
Presumably it's government related contact only, not personal messages, so anything on govt email, WhatsApp etc
It does sound very much like kicked into the long grass and soon off the news, doesn’t it. And based on that dossier Number 10 got to the police on Tuesday, police soon silencing everyone from saying this and that whilst enquiries going on. Team Boris managed to shut down Partygate for a while with this same tactic.
We don’t know anything about what’s in that dossier, but Number ten produced it very quick and conveniently.
Shouldn't McSweeney simply do the decent thing and resign? No one thinks he's particularly good at what he does, and his continuing presence is killing his boss, his party and the government he serves. What's the point in sticking around? The media will give him a good job as a commentator and political seer; they always do.
Thing is he’s incredibly low profile, much more so than any recent equivalent. He might have the voice of a Scotch Frank Spencer with charisma to match, so who knows re media.
Slightly connectedly I heard Epstein speaking lat week for the first time, surprisingly milquetoast.
Admittedly, I've never heard him speak, but I had understood he was from County Cork?
Bemused by the money is not object (so long as we are talking about London) brigade arguing "what if Parliament burns down" as justification for spending £40bn on it, which will no doubt become £100bn all-in once done.
What if it does?
Notre Dame burnt down, and the French rebuilt it. At a tiny fraction of the cost per square metre.
Decant Parliament elsewhere, do the maintenance properly and affordably, but there should not be a blank cheque for anyone, including Parliament.
It's not projected to cost 40 billion. It's projected to cost 8.4 to 12.5 billion if MPs pick the full decant option.
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
What's your point? Does that detract from the fact that for decades these liberal elites that people like you worship and help to shout down any opposing voices were guilty of mass rape and sexual abuse of children from across the world.
Once again in attempting to get a gotcha you've put yourself on the wrong side of the argument.
Which liberal elites? Bannon, Musk, Thiel, Chomsky, Trump, Barak, Lutnick, Ratner? Those liberal elites? I've never worshipped them.
Bemused by the money is not object (so long as we are talking about London) brigade arguing "what if Parliament burns down" as justification for spending £40bn on it, which will no doubt become £100bn all-in once done.
What if it does?
Notre Dame burnt down, and the French rebuilt it. At a tiny fraction of the cost per square metre.
Decant Parliament elsewhere, do the maintenance properly and affordably, but there should not be a blank cheque for anyone, including Parliament.
It's not projected to cost 40 billion. It's projected to cost 8.4 to 12.5 billion if MPs pick the full decant option.
Notre Dame for all of its beauty is not a working building which houses the national Parliament.
30 billion politicians vanity headroom....
So 8.4 to 12.5 billion is everyone moves out so the work can be done sensibly
40bn if they try and continue working while the building work is being done as that reduces it down into a start / stop project where work can only be done at weekends and Parliamentary holidays - so it takes 4 times as long..
Bemused by the money is not object (so long as we are talking about London) brigade arguing "what if Parliament burns down" as justification for spending £40bn on it, which will no doubt become £100bn all-in once done.
What if it does?
Notre Dame burnt down, and the French rebuilt it. At a tiny fraction of the cost per square metre.
Decant Parliament elsewhere, do the maintenance properly and affordably, but there should not be a blank cheque for anyone, including Parliament.
It's not projected to cost 40 billion. It's projected to cost 8.4 to 12.5 billion if MPs pick the full decant option.
If the quote is £40bn, but the time Trev and Barry have been bodging it for a few years, it will all of a sudden be behind schedule and now budget is ballooning to a predicted £180bn, something about having to built bat tunnels....
Are there any cases that Starmer dealt with while head of the CPS where his limitless credulity might have affected his judgement?
Like what ?
Boris Johnson tried the Jimmy Savile / Starmer conspiracy theory and couldn't even get any traction from his own MP's
I don't imagine it will stop the lunatic fringe having another go though.
And yet in the last few days people who were dismissed by these liberal elites as conspiracy theorists have been proven right. There was/is a paedophile ring that trafficked young children from all over the world so that they could be raped, sexully abused and murdered by them.
We are living in a reality where nothing those liberal elites tell us should be trusted.
Those conspiracy theorists also said that Trump would clean it all up, when it turns out that Trump is up to his neck in it.
So far there has been very little to nail Trump, the irony is the more the Left has demanded release of Epstein documents the more of their own have been implicated.
It may well be something on Trump turns up but the chances are it will be pre 2012 at which time he was a Democrat mixing with other Democrats.
You can tell there's been "little to nail Trump" by the calm way he responds to questions about it.
Or, in other words, pull the other one, it's got bells on.
He only gets a mention 38,000 times. If you round it up or down to the nearest 100,000 it's 0.
If the quote is £40bn, but the time Trev and Barry have been bodging it for a few years, it will all of a sudden be behind schedule and now budget is ballooning to a predicted £180bn, something about having to built bat tunnels....
There are big questions about how long it will take (literally a human lifetime, apparently), and what is included in the costs.
The building work itself will probably not be more than 15bn or so, but the cost of an alternative for 60-odd years, plus contingencies, etc., means it could add up to 40bn.
I would like to propose an alternative to renovating the Houses of Parliament.
Knock it down. Sell the land off for apartments.
Use some existing facilities to house MPs and Lords. There's the QE2 Conference Center around the corner. That would work.
There's barely more than a thousand of the buggers in total. So some hotel ballrooms are going to be big enough.
A few years of slumming it, and they might be able to come up with a proposal that costs -say- 1bn, rather than 40bn.
And then we might be able to actually finish some proper infrastructure projects.
Its a historic building and we should try to preserve/conserve it. It doesn't need to be the parliament for the UK, which could be in a purpose built new building with associated offices and flats/hotel style rooms for those MP's who cannot get home each night.
I would like to propose an alternative to renovating the Houses of Parliament.
Knock it down. Sell the land off for apartments.
Use some existing facilities to house MPs and Lords. There's the QE2 Conference Center around the corner. That would work.
There's barely more than a thousand of the buggers in total. So some hotel ballrooms are going to be big enough.
A few years of slumming it, and they might be able to come up with a proposal that costs -say- 1bn, rather than 40bn.
And then we might be able to actually finish some proper infrastructure projects.
Don't make the same mistake as we did with HS2, and keep it in London. If MPs and Lords are forced to work in Teesside it will be done in half the time.
(Teesside is roughly the same driving time from the population centre as Westminster, though double the public transport time).
If the quote is £40bn, but the time Trev and Barry have been bodging it for a few years, it will all of a sudden be behind schedule and now budget is ballooning to a predicted £180bn, something about having to built bat tunnels....
Trev and Barry are quite content to chip £10b off the bill for cash in hand.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
It rather makes Crossrail's 19bn price tag look like a bargain.
Turn the place in to a museum.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Lots of land there. Brownfield sites.
Turning it into a museum would also cost a fortune.
Selling off the land for flats, by contrast, would be a net positive for the taxpayer, and would lower the cost of all housing.
I'd much rather have a piece of glorious architecture used for it's intended purpose than a train line to cut 20 minutes off a load of people's commute.
The whole "why are we spending £x on y when we could be spending on z" is the epitome of fatuous zero-sum thinking that plagues political discourse.
£40b is too much, there are cheaper options, but Parliament is emblematic not only of London, but of the whole country. What would be the total cost, reputationally as well as financially, of watching it burn down? Basically says to the world that we couldn't be bothered looking after our own UNESCO World Heritage Site.
Exactly. What a dreary signal.
If it were to burn down we'd never rebuild.
It may happen, as MPs are not going to approve 40bn or 15bn. They'll find a reason for more reviewing and patching.
PJH's Rule of Management Decision Making - If there is an option to defer a decision, that is the decision management will take. Especially if the due date for a decision has already passed.
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
It rather makes Crossrail's 19bn price tag look like a bargain.
Turn the place in to a museum.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Lots of land there. Brownfield sites.
Turning it into a museum would also cost a fortune.
Selling off the land for flats, by contrast, would be a net positive for the taxpayer, and would lower the cost of all housing.
This is the approach I've advocated for years.
And I also agree that we should move parliament and government to a big brownfield site in some cheaper city. Obviously I had thought of Manchester (my plan had been the Strangeways area - accesible and cheap) though most core cities have equivalent areas and I could happily get behind Birningham. It even has a fast train to London being built.
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
It rather makes Crossrail's 19bn price tag look like a bargain.
Turn the place in to a museum.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Lots of land there. Brownfield sites.
Turning it into a museum would also cost a fortune.
Selling off the land for flats, by contrast, would be a net positive for the taxpayer, and would lower the cost of all housing.
I'd much rather have a piece of glorious architecture used for it's intended purpose than a train line to cut 20 minutes off a load of people's commute.
Shouldn't McSweeney simply do the decent thing and resign? No one thinks he's particularly good at what he does, and his continuing presence is killing his boss, his party and the government he serves. What's the point in sticking around? The media will give him a good job as a commentator and political seer; they always do.
Thing is he’s incredibly low profile, much more so than any recent equivalent. He might have the voice of a Scotch Frank Spencer with charisma to match, so who knows re media.
Slightly connectedly I heard Epstein speaking lat week for the first time, surprisingly milquetoast.
Admittedly, I've never heard him speak, but I had understood he was from County Cork?
So I see from Wiki. Co Cork + London + Israel + Middlesex + S. Lanarkshire would provide an interesting twang. He definitely looks like a Scotch Frank Spencer.
Peter Mandelson moaned about the “ocean of questions” asked about his “former life” during the vetting process for his ambassadorial gig, just as he was preparing to jet off to Washington. Signing off from the podcast he used to host, Times Radio’s How to Win an Election, Mandelson bade farewell to his fawning co-hosts with a tale of how “extraordinary” the checks were:
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
No. I don’t believe this at all. They didn’t bother to ask questions is what happened, they were far too convinced already, sending a weirdo to manage a weirdo was a great idea.
Labour had far too much encouragement from the right wing media that going for a celebrity spin doctor ambassador was the right thing to do.
And even now there’s people saying “but he was doing a good job over there.” Really. I’m calling it out. Post examples of the good job that was down to Mandelson?
We currently have little idea how hard he was working or how crap many of his decisions were.
But I suspect it will be proved Ambassador Mandelson had “gone native” very quickly, and delivering poorly for our National Interest all along.
40 billion for restoration of Houses of Parliament
It rather makes Crossrail's 19bn price tag look like a bargain.
Turn the place in to a museum.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Lots of land there. Brownfield sites.
Turning it into a museum would also cost a fortune.
Selling off the land for flats, by contrast, would be a net positive for the taxpayer, and would lower the cost of all housing.
I'd much rather have a piece of glorious architecture used for it's intended purpose than a train line to cut 20 minutes off a load of people's commute.
I take the opposite view.
As is your right of course. All I'd say is that you can always build infrastructure at some point but you can never replace heritage once it's lost.
"When asked if Starmer should resign, MP for Brent West Barry Gardiner said he thinks Starmer "needs to think very hard about what is in the country's best interest".
Rachael Maskell, who represents York Central, said she thinks it's "inevitable that the prime minister is going to have to step down".
Meanwhile, Rebecca Long-Bailey, who challenged Starmer in the 2020 Labour leadership race, described how appointing Mandelson was a “catastrophic misjudgement” and that Starmer had “huge questions” to answer."
The problem with asking “the usual suspects” - and those names certainly are - is it doesn’t tell us anything new.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
Correct. I listened to BBC News and it was simply a rollcall of 'Starmer outs' which would have been exactly the same people if it was taken anytime during the last 18 months. A chronic lack of imagination on the part of their researchers.
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
Comments
The "liberal elite" line is desperate stuff tbh. The difficulty for MAGA is the actual, ordinary left gives zero fucks about the likes of Gates and Clinton going down.
So no, they haven't.
The whole "why are we spending £x on y when we could be spending on z" is the epitome of fatuous zero-sum thinking that plagues political discourse.
£40b is too much, there are cheaper options, but Parliament is emblematic not only of London, but of the whole country. What would be the total cost, reputationally as well as financially, of watching it burn down? Basically says to the world that we couldn't be bothered looking after our own UNESCO World Heritage Site.
Those people would have told you they are willing to vote against Starmer in a confidence vote on every Thursday of the Parliament, not just this one. Just two weeks into his Premiership, about 25 or so of Starmer’s MPs - Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet - would have voted against him in a confidence vote to oust him.
- saying “Boris Johnson, KGB, party” in every comment is just persistence without style or flair 3/10
- Saying “Kemi is rubbish” in every comment is barely WhatAboutery 1/10
Get with the program. Farmer Tupac would do so much better.
I get genuinely furious how parliamentarians have pissed about with such a globally iconic building and made it so much more torturous.
It'll never be popular to spend money on it, so delaying helped no-one.
I don't think anything deserves a blank cheque, so the decant option is best, but those advocating doing nothing or making it a museum (which would still cost plenty) can go hang.
https://x.com/headquarters_67/status/2019404025507225735
If it were to burn down we'd never rebuild.
It may happen, as MPs are not going to approve 40bn or 15bn. They'll find a reason for more reviewing and patching.
There are none so blind...
Anyhow if we are talking treason "what about KGB parties?"
And what about if Kemi was better prepared?
“There is so much organisation to be done. I mean, it is unbelievable. I never realised that joining the ranks of the civil service would involve quite so much, so many bureaucratic hurdles and challenges. It’s like emptying an ocean of questions, whether it be for my security vetting or the endless health checks and questions, just about every aspect of my former life. I have to answer all these questionnaires and empty this great ocean of bureaucracy before I do so. But I guess it will be towards the end of this month. I can’t show my face over there until all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed. Both this side of the Atlantic and their side. But it is extraordinary.”
https://order-order.com/2026/02/05/mandelson-moaned-that-ambassador-vetting-process-covered-every-aspect-of-my-former-life/
a) has the least effective/least involved MP's and
b) save on the cost of rebuilding it and
c) costs little to run?
Step forward Sinn Féin. Since Sinn Féin MPs do not take their seats in the UK House of Commons because they refuse to swear an oath of allegiance to the British monarch they have a policy of abstentionism. They also do not receive a parliamentary salary. And then there is the saving on all the flunkies, SPADs, support staff, heating etc. A completely empty chamber.
The HoL would be nobbled too as they will have nothing to revise ...
All we have to do is encourage Sinn Féin to put up 650 candidates. What could possibly be better?
The fact the DoJ have managed to do that kind of redaction while leaving actual uncensored naked photos of underage girls in basically tells you everything.
and
OUST STARMER
https://saxavord.com/
The Telegraph had picked up on a 2009 court application by Epstein to be released from house arrest so he could meet a senior British government figure in New York.
Purchase land adjacent to the new Sports Quarter facility in Birmingham that would effectively link up to the NEC and Airport and build a State of the Art secure modern facility with Media Centres for a fraction of the cost, outside of London in the centre of the Country
Lots of land there. Brownfield sites.
His reputation is so indelibly mired in sleaze that he has just been offered a position at FIFA
What if it does?
Notre Dame burnt down, and the French rebuilt it. At a tiny fraction of the cost per square metre.
Decant Parliament elsewhere, do the maintenance properly and affordably, but there should not be a blank cheque for anyone, including Parliament.
A good WhatAbout is like a fine rum. Lots of depth, flavour and nuance. A good Venezuelan, cask aged, perhaps.
"You don't bury survivors!
"Also, a bit of a geographical snag: Ukraine and the Republic of China (Taiwan) are about 8,000 kilometres apart, so that would be one heck of a long-distance crash.
"Would you like to explore some actual geography or perhaps some more classic brain teasers?
"AI responses may include mistakes."
@Polymarket
BREAKING: More than $1,000,000,000,000.00 has been erased from crypto market cap since January 14th.
$45,000,000,000.00 lost per day.
Sadly, our elected representatives chose to waste taxpayer money, and now we're going to pay 50x that amount.
To steal a line from the Italian Job, "Look happy you b******, we won didn't we?"
Anyway, have you heard the one about Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary, tired, emotional and asleep on a Lombardi railway station bench?
Or, in other words, pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Slightly connectedly I heard Epstein speaking lat week for the first time, surprisingly milquetoast.
Knock it down. Sell the land off for apartments.
Use some existing facilities to house MPs and Lords. There's the QE2 Conference Center around the corner. That would work.
There's barely more than a thousand of the buggers in total. So some hotel ballrooms are going to be big enough.
A few years of slumming it, and they might be able to come up with a proposal that costs -say- 1bn, rather than 40bn.
And then we might be able to actually finish some proper infrastructure projects.
https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/616/restoration-and-renewal-client-board/publications/
Notre Dame for all of its beauty is not a working building which houses the national Parliament.
It’s a deal, it’s as a steal. It’s the same of the fucking century.
650 MPs
1500 as near as
Selling off the land for flats, by contrast, would be a net positive for the taxpayer, and would lower the cost of all housing.
We don’t know anything about what’s in that dossier, but Number ten produced it very quick and conveniently.
(Also, they can share a chamber. There's no reason at all why they have to meet at the same time.)
40bn if they try and continue working while the building work is being done as that reduces it down into a start / stop project where work can only be done at weekends and Parliamentary holidays - so it takes 4 times as long..
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgp2pzqr84o
The building work itself will probably not be more than 15bn or so, but the cost of an alternative for 60-odd years, plus contingencies, etc., means it could add up to 40bn.
NEW THREAD
(Teesside is roughly the same driving time from the population centre as Westminster, though double the public transport time).
I thought Starmers apology was fulsome and there's no reason for him to go. He's a hell of a lot more honourable than several calling for him to go. Particularly those who owe him their seats which is most of them.
Labour were dead in the water before he came along
And I also agree that we should move parliament and government to a big brownfield site in some cheaper city.
Obviously I had thought of Manchester (my plan had been the Strangeways area - accesible and cheap) though most core cities have equivalent areas and I could happily get behind Birningham. It even has a fast train to London being built.
Leeds is a shit hole
Co Cork + London + Israel + Middlesex + S. Lanarkshire would provide an interesting twang. He definitely looks like a Scotch Frank Spencer.
Labour had far too much encouragement from the right wing media that going for a celebrity spin doctor ambassador was the right thing to do.
And even now there’s people saying “but he was doing a good job over there.” Really. I’m calling it out. Post examples of the good job that was down to Mandelson?
We currently have little idea how hard he was working or how crap many of his decisions were.
But I suspect it will be proved Ambassador Mandelson had “gone native” very quickly, and delivering poorly for our National Interest all along.
https://spectator.com/article/europe-needs-to-get-on-board-with-trumps-plans-for-greenland/
Let this be the end of “Celebrity Ambassadors.”