Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If it helps I'm a Labour member and if/when the vote comes I'll be judging 2 things:
Who would be the better PM? Who would more likely beat Reform?
Assuming a Streeting v Rayner choice, I'm clear on the answer to the 1st. Streeting. But on the 2nd I'm not sure at all. And if I end up concluding it's Rayner I can see myself (reluctantly) prioritising that and voting for her.
Nothing (for me) is more important than preventing Farage and his gang getting their filthy mitts on this country.
Far be it from me to suggest solutions to Labours quandary but Rayner is so far from your desire to beat Reform as you can get. Honestly - Labour supporters and members need to read the fucking room. Your only hope is a Cooper ticket with Streeting as Chancellor maybe. This fascination and love for Rayner is perplexing. She’s clearly thick as shit. And a proven tax dodger.
Ok, coming from you that's convinced me. It has to be Rayner. Sorry Wes.
Ginger space between the ears as Prime Minister?
Fucking hell...
We are desperate
LOL at the idea of Rayner or Cooper turning up to meet Trump, Xi, Putin…
That’s not sexist by the way, look at Kaja Kallas, Ursula VdL, Meloni, all clearly top class stateswomen. I just don’t think any of the current UK Labour group of women could do it.
Kaja Kallas seems to be a bit of a liability.
What makes you say that?
She’s been been brilliant on Ukraine as far as I can tell, pushing hard for more aid and more sanctions on the enemy.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Always good to see history re-written
In what way? Mandelson was never popular inside Labour, hence the Blair quote: My project will be complete when the Labour party learns to love Peter Mandelson.
This has little to do with Mandelson and more to do with Rogers memory./ Im worried about his mental recall
Another day of medium-level drama at Westminster as Mandelson continues his descent into the darkness from whence (some might suggest) he came.
The notion of discrete back channels whereby sensitive information is disseminated to those who "need to know" is as old as the hills. It's not so much what you know or who you know but when you know it and particularly if there is market advantage to be had. As an unsuccessful horse race punter of many years sitting, I'm well aware information from certain stables about certain horses is spread to key players who are able to play the markets.
That doesn't make it right but to assume it began with Mandelson...well, let's just ask who knew when the 2024 GE was going to take place and when did they know and what did they do with that advanced information or knowledge?
Is Starmer under threat? It's hard to see how - the appointment of Mandelson to the Court of King Donald was made in knowledge (though perhaps not full knowledge) of a relationship with Epstein and we know, as a well connected person, a lot of powerful people "knew" Epstein or had dealings - are they all to be condemned? We know of past associations here between senior political figures and individuals whose reputations have suffered with revelation.
As for pictures being worth a thousand words....well, in this case, I'm less certain.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Always good to see history re-written
In what way? Mandelson was never popular inside Labour, hence the Blair quote: My project will be complete when the Labour party learns to love Peter Mandelson.
Mandelson was also absolutely central to the reinvention of Labour as a party of centrist managerialism, hence the Blair quote.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Badenoch now trying to tie the very recent 3m x 2 mail drops on Starmer claiming he may have known about them when he appointed Mandelson and should be interviewed by Police.
She has got a serious personality disorder.
The motion is panicked and too narrow. Now she's making fairy stories up in her head.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
I was prepared to accept it was a good appointment on the basis of set a thief. It was Mr Trump's administration he'd be dealing with, after all. My unrecognised assumption was that all the negative stuff was already out in the open. Silly me.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If Labour had any sense of survival and/or common sense they’d pick…hmmm…Cooper or Streeting. Although she’s like a headmistress and perpetually looks like Dot Cotton licking piss off a nettle (not my words)…Cooper should win. If common sense was something applicable to politicians I’d bet on her.
If it was this year I'd say Douglas Alexander.
Very impressive and highly respected in NATO.
If Labour feel a female is needed, Emma Reynolds, very impressive before losing her seat on 2010 has quickly returned to a top role,would be an interesting long shot.
Are you deranged, he is a useless empty headed twat of a donkey's arse
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Badenoch now trying to tie the very recent 3m x 2 mail drops on Starmer claiming he may have known about them when he appointed Mandelson and should be interviewed by Police.
She has got a serious personality disorder.
The motion is panicked and too narrow. Now she's making fairy stories up in her head.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
What was known about Mandelson by the general public on the day of his appointment was enough to disqualify him from any important government position
He had been fired twice for impropriety
Then we knew he was friends with a paedo billionaire crook
Then the Prime Minister appointed him
The default assumption must be that 'due diligence' over the Mandelson appointment with security services and secret information gatherers would have to be exceptionally thorough given his past and his known connections.
The other default assumption must be that between them MI5, MI5, Special Branch, GCHQ and the overseas intelligence agencies with whom we had a good relationship will have known quite a lot of what we now know, and, safe to say, quite a lot more that we don't. Human nature is what it is.
Which is the bit or bits in the process which have gone wrong and why is a central question. There seem to me no possibilities that are not quite disconcerting.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
They’re actually going to turn up in Congress in person? 🎇
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Badenoch now trying to tie the very recent 3m x 2 mail drops on Starmer claiming he may have known about them when he appointed Mandelson and should be interviewed by Police.
She has got a serious personality disorder.
The motion is panicked and too narrow. Now she's making fairy stories up in her head.
Which Labour MP do you work for?
Sounds more like he works for CCHQ - they're fond of amateur mental illness diagnoses.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
What was known about Mandelson by the general public on the day of his appointment was enough to disqualify him from any important government position
He had been fired twice for impropriety
Then we knew he was friends with a paedo billionaire crook
Then the Prime Minister appointed him
The default assumption must be that 'due diligence' over the Mandelson appointment with security services and secret information gatherers would have to be exceptionally thorough given his past and his known connections.
The other default assumption must be that between them MI5, MI5, Special Branch, GCHQ and the overseas intelligence agencies with whom we had a good relationship will have known quite a lot of what we now know, and, safe to say, quite a lot more that we don't. Human nature is what it is.
Which is the bit or bits in the process which have gone wrong and why is a central question. There seem to me no possibilities that are not quite disconcerting.
It’s possible that the intelligence services told the Cabinet Secretary, who withheld information from Starmer. That would be interesting, if true.
I presume that we can assume that the intelligence services knew more about Mandelson than the general public knew when he was appointed Ambassador
What information was given to the Prime Minister that he forensically ignored?
What information was withheld from Starmer by the intelligence services?
Presumably none, because the security services didn't know the really juicy stuff.
(At least I hope they didn't know. If the spooks knew this for the last fifteen years and told nobody, that's even worse than them not knowing.)
Their whole job is to know stuff the rest of us don’t.
Surely they put everything in the vetting file on Mandy that went to the PM? Otherwise, the PM is going to say that the security services failed to vet him properly, to the point that the head of MI5’s job could be on the line.
they are all useless arse licking parasites at the public teat
Confirmed the conservatives will use their opposition day debate tomorrow to call on the government to publically release evidence of the papar trail documents relevant to Mandelson
PMQs and this tomorrow will be quite a day in the HOC
Very narrow target
Won't be anything to see
Kemi will miss 6 open goals and then another open goal
Kemi will be gone well before Starmer
She really hasn't thought this through...
Labour will commit to releasing the documents ar 12 noon.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If it helps I'm a Labour member and if/when the vote comes I'll be judging 2 things:
Who would be the better PM? Who would more likely beat Reform?
Assuming a Streeting v Rayner choice, I'm clear on the answer to the 1st. Streeting. But on the 2nd I'm not sure at all. And if I end up concluding it's Rayner I can see myself (reluctantly) prioritising that and voting for her.
Nothing (for me) is more important than preventing Farage and his gang getting their filthy mitts on this country.
Far be it from me to suggest solutions to Labours quandary but Rayner is so far from your desire to beat Reform as you can get. Honestly - Labour supporters and members need to read the fucking room. Your only hope is a Cooper ticket with Streeting as Chancellor maybe. This fascination and love for Rayner is perplexing. She’s clearly thick as shit. And a proven tax dodger.
Northern accent = thick as shit
Thank goodness none of my university exams were orals, or it would have been an instant fail.
Nope. You’re making that stretch, not me. JRM Is as thick as shit. As is Jenrick. Hague wasn’t. Neither is Burnham. She’s objectively as thick as shit. You just like her because she’s northern. And in your mind that means she’s beyond criticism.
If not thick as shit then she would make a great actress
Because it would stop Republicans voting eight times each?
71% of Democrat voters, 0% of Democrat lawmakers.
Voter ID is one of those things that sounds sensible if you don't know anything about it. But isn't.
The reality is that it is very easy to do post election checks on voting.
Take mail in voting: the envelope is sealed with the voter's signature. Take a sample of 500 envelopes (you don't need the actual ballot paper), and go visit those 500 people, and confirm (a) they are citizens, (b) they did vote by mail and (c) that is their signature.
Likewise, every single person who voted in the US - well, that they voted in recorded. Like in the UK, electoral rolls, and whether people voted, are public information. You can't put extra votes in, because then there'd be a mismatch between the number of people on the rolls who'd voted. (It is possible, of course, with electronic voting. which is why it's imperative to have a paper backup that can also be spot checked.)
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
What was known about Mandelson by the general public on the day of his appointment was enough to disqualify him from any important government position
He had been fired twice for impropriety
Then we knew he was friends with a paedo billionaire crook
Then the Prime Minister appointed him
No. That he stayed after Epstein conviction and community service for the crime wasn’t known at time of appointment. That only came out in last release and got him the sack. This release is adding true depth to the closeness before conviction.
You have proved me right, havn’t you. You are trying to rewrite true history arn’t you?
Here’s a tip. On this one you don’t need to reinvent the timeline of who knew what when. It’s bad enough for PantyPete and Starmer and Labour, just playing it straight with the truth. All their trust and faith in this money mad arrogant greedy dog for 40 years is shredding them. All of them.
Good from Nigey. Nigey maintains Mandelson has broken the Official Secrets Act. Nigel agrees that he was only mentioned 37 times in the Epstein files, which I think we agree is pretty close to zero. And like with Nathan Gill, he never met him.
Good from Davy. He wants a ten year Public Inquiry.
Nonetheless Starmer needs to go.
I can't see a reason for Starmer to go. He appointed him in good faith. There was no reason to think he was traitor. Watching Kemi after the event looks so opportunistic. She's worked with some appaling shits in her time. Wasn't she appointed a Minister by Boris Johnson? When the Tories get on their high horse you know it's time for the sick bag.
You don’t understand something.
Mandy used email. Personal, public email. Email is sent from server to server all over the world until it gets to its destination. Imagine postcard being sent around the world until they happen to end up in the right place.
It’s the least secure method of sending a message ever created.
The FBI got Epstein’s emails from server logs.
The U.K. intelligence services have them - they snaffle up all the email they can into a searchable database.
As part of serious vetting, which should have happened for Mandelson -
- his previous resignation incidents should have been reviewed. - various public allegations, previously made about him passing sensitive material to people, should have been reviewed. - his contacts should have been reviewed.
Cross linking with the email database would have found all of this.
- was it done? - was it hidden? - was it known but ignored?
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
If the Tories replaced Badenoch with Cleverly Labour might be in trouble though he's still a 'Leaver' and wants to get out of the EHRC
I should think you probs meant the ECHR. These initials are confusing. Anyway, the ECHR is like the EU. There is a formidable case for being in it, and ditto for out of it, and whichever one you are, you feel doubt about it. ECHR and EU share the quality that they really ought to be a no-brainer, and all right thinking people would want to be in it, but both suffer from overreaching themselves and achieving more and worse than is good for them, or us.
So, as with the EU, I would leave but only on condition that before I do so I know what is going to replace it.
Philp on LBC on Sunday was quite clear that he thought the ECHR should be replaced by a UK contempt for the rule of law and the partial abolition of the separation of powers. So, No.
Because it would stop Republicans voting eight times each?
71% of Democrat voters, 0% of Democrat lawmakers.
Voter ID is one of those things that sounds sensible if you don't know anything about it. But isn't.
The reality is that it is very easy to do post election checks on voting.
Take mail in voting: the envelope is sealed with the voter's signature. Take a sample of 500 envelopes (you don't need the actual ballot paper), and go visit those 500 people, and confirm (a) they are citizens, (b) they did vote by mail and (c) that is their signature.
Likewise, every single person who voted in the US - well, that they voted in recorded. Like in the UK, electoral rolls, and whether people voted, are public information. You can't put extra votes in, because then there'd be a mismatch between the number of people on the rolls who'd voted. (It is possible, of course, with electronic voting. which is why it's imperative to have a paper backup that can also be spot checked.)
Isn't that what Trump is doing in Georgia and finding out that he won bigly?
I am pleased the latest Epstein dump has, like he says, exonerated Trump.
In an interview with NPR, Melinda French Gates confirmed that she ended her marriage with Bill Gates because of allegations contained in the Epstein files.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
Random rep: 'Is that taking the fifth, Mr President?'
Clinton: 'it depends on what the definition of the word 'is' is.'
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
To freak him out, they should have had a dog for scale
Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
Seems to be regional Malc.
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
I was prepared to accept it was a good appointment on the basis of set a thief. It was Mr Trump's administration he'd be dealing with, after all. My unrecognised assumption was that all the negative stuff was already out in the open. Silly me.
It’s not the first time is it, people have been dazzled by someone’s skills - even today on news people still saying he done a good job greasing Trump in UK interest - and truth of all their hideous crimes emerge. How many books and films, and true life documentary just like this.
I’m with those then and now who think more than enough was known about him not to appoint him. I don’t like idea of celebrity ambassadors, stick to the professionals.
Fair play to you for posting. A lot of PBers won’t admit to the error after such hideous details now emerged.
Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
Seems to be regional Malc.
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
dry at least just now but pretty cold to say the least, boiler working overtime
Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
Seems to be regional Malc.
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
dry at least just now but pretty cold to say the least, boiler working overtime
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
Because it would stop Republicans voting eight times each?
71% of Democrat voters, 0% of Democrat lawmakers.
Voter ID is one of those things that sounds sensible if you don't know anything about it. But isn't.
The reality is that it is very easy to do post election checks on voting.
Take mail in voting: the envelope is sealed with the voter's signature. Take a sample of 500 envelopes (you don't need the actual ballot paper), and go visit those 500 people, and confirm (a) they are citizens, (b) they did vote by mail and (c) that is their signature.
Likewise, every single person who voted in the US - well, that they voted in recorded. Like in the UK, electoral rolls, and whether people voted, are public information. You can't put extra votes in, because then there'd be a mismatch between the number of people on the rolls who'd voted. (It is possible, of course, with electronic voting. which is why it's imperative to have a paper backup that can also be spot checked.)
Isn't that what Trump is doing in Georgia and finding out that he won bigly?
I am pleased the latest Epstein dump has, like he says, exonerated Trump.
Remains to be seen of course, but so far I havent seen anything Trump related post 2012 in the Epstein papers.
All those photos etc, date from when Trump was a fully paid up Democrat, Which sort of implies his political colleagues said nothing.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
This has cut through to the public and no matter how many excuses Starmer and his supporters make, as our PM and the person who appointed him they will deliver their verdict in due course
Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
Seems to be regional Malc.
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
dry at least just now but pretty cold to say the least, boiler working overtime
Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
Seems to be regional Malc.
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
dry at least just now but pretty cold to say the least, boiler working overtime
We had a nice afternoon in the toon and lunch. It was bitingly cold and very dark too early afternoon.
Now I’m retired the boiler stays on all day at the moment.
@chrisshipitv BREAKING: New statement from @ThamesVP on Andrew claims: “We are aware of reports about a woman said to have been taken to an address in Windsor in 2010 for sexual purposes. “We are assessing the information in line with our established procedures. "We take any reports of sexual crimes extremely seriously and encourage anyone with information to come forward. At this time, these allegations have not been reported to Thames Valley Police by either the lawyer or their client.”
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
I was prepared to accept it was a good appointment on the basis of set a thief. It was Mr Trump's administration he'd be dealing with, after all. My unrecognised assumption was that all the negative stuff was already out in the open. Silly me.
It’s not the first time is it, people have been dazzled by someone’s skills - even today on news people still saying he done a good job greasing Trump in UK interest - and truth of all their hideous crimes emerge. How many books and films, and true life documentary just like this.
I’m with those then and now who think more than enough was known about him not to appoint him. I don’t like idea of celebrity ambassadors, stick to the professionals.
Fair play to you for posting. A lot of PBers won’t admit to the error after such hideous details now emerged.
A blind deaf man/woman would have known he was as dodgy as a three bob bit and should not have been trusted to clean a toilet. Something far wrong with Starmer for sure, you wonder what Mandelson has.
Smarkets is a betting exchange like Betfair. They are not pollsters. Greens at 50 per cent is another way of saying 2.0 in Betfair terms or even money in a traditional betting shop.
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
This has cut through to the public and no matter how many excuses Starmer and his supporters make, as our PM and the person who appointed him they will deliver their verdict in due course
Allegations from 2010,only in the public domain last Friday.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Always good to see history re-written
In what way? Mandelson was never popular inside Labour, hence the Blair quote: My project will be complete when the Labour party learns to love Peter Mandelson.
Mandelson was also absolutely central to the reinvention of Labour as a party of centrist managerialism, hence the Blair quote.
But it's also true he was always hated by the left. That's why the only people salivating more than the right and tory partisans over this are the left. They share a deep antipathy to the New Labour project.
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
This has cut through to the public and no matter how many excuses Starmer and his supporters make, as our PM and the person who appointed him they will deliver their verdict in due course
Allegations from 2010,only in the public domain last Friday.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
They’re actually going to turn up in Congress in person? 🎇
Yes:
The more interesting testimony, I suspect, will be Ms Clinton's. Bill will take the Fifth, because he has to. But Ms Clinton...
And fwiw, I suspect that quite a lot of people (of every political hue) will be nervous about those two testifying.
In an interview with NPR, Melinda French Gates confirmed that she ended her marriage with Bill Gates because of allegations contained in the Epstein files.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Good joke, but not as good as his Diana joke:
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If it helps I'm a Labour member and if/when the vote comes I'll be judging 2 things:
Who would be the better PM? Who would more likely beat Reform?
Assuming a Streeting v Rayner choice, I'm clear on the answer to the 1st. Streeting. But on the 2nd I'm not sure at all. And if I end up concluding it's Rayner I can see myself (reluctantly) prioritising that and voting for her.
Nothing (for me) is more important than preventing Farage and his gang getting their filthy mitts on this country.
Far be it from me to suggest solutions to Labours quandary but Rayner is so far from your desire to beat Reform as you can get. Honestly - Labour supporters and members need to read the fucking room. Your only hope is a Cooper ticket with Streeting as Chancellor maybe. This fascination and love for Rayner is perplexing. She’s clearly thick as shit. And a proven tax dodger.
Northern accent = thick as shit
Thank goodness none of my university exams were orals, or it would have been an instant fail.
Nope. You’re making that stretch, not me. JRM Is as thick as shit. As is Jenrick. Hague wasn’t. Neither is Burnham. She’s objectively as thick as shit. You just like her because she’s northern. And in your mind that means she’s beyond criticism.
It does depend on what sort of PM we want, though. Since Thatcher and Blair, the UK model has centralised power in its leader such that it is often called ‘presidential’ - yet ironically, until Trump showed what is possible by stretching the boundaries, our PMs have had more power than any US president. Reagan was also thick as **** yet ran a decent presidency by picking people be trusted and letting them make most of the decisions, content just to be the front man. There’s no theoretical reason why a British government couldn’t run like that - it’s just that we’ve forgotten, not having been alive back in the day, how collective cabinet government actually might work.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Always good to see history re-written
In what way? Mandelson was never popular inside Labour, hence the Blair quote: My project will be complete when the Labour party learns to love Peter Mandelson.
You’re saying that today is the final death of New Labourism?
I presume that we can assume that the intelligence services knew more about Mandelson than the general public knew when he was appointed Ambassador
What information was given to the Prime Minister that he forensically ignored?
What information was withheld from Starmer by the intelligence services?
Presumably none, because the security services didn't know the really juicy stuff.
(At least I hope they didn't know. If the spooks knew this for the last fifteen years and told nobody, that's even worse than them not knowing.)
Their whole job is to know stuff the rest of us don’t.
Surely they put everything in the vetting file on Mandy that went to the PM? Otherwise, the PM is going to say that the security services failed to vet him properly, to the point that the head of MI5’s job could be on the line.
I think you are overestimating the competence and reach of the UK security services.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
They’re actually going to turn up in Congress in person? 🎇
Yes:
The more interesting testimony, I suspect, will be Ms Clinton's. Bill will take the Fifth, because he has to. But Ms Clinton...
And fwiw, I suspect that quite a lot of people (of every political hue) will be nervous about those two testifying.
What is Bill's definition of safe sex?
When Hilary is out of town.
Perhaps this will be her chance to put his lifetime of philandering, or worse, to bed (in a manner of speaking)?
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Good joke, but not as good as his Diana joke:
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
The follow up was funnier.
While Dara O'Briain was still staring with a shocked look on his face, Boyle turned to him with an engaging smile and said 'be interesting to see if that makes it in, to be honest.'
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Badenoch now trying to tie the very recent 3m x 2 mail drops on Starmer claiming he may have known about them when he appointed Mandelson and should be interviewed by Police.
She has got a serious personality disorder.
The motion is panicked and too narrow. Now she's making fairy stories up in her head.
Which Labour MP do you work for?
If it is a Government Minister you might have rubbed shoulders in your role as Caroline Leavitt.
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
This has cut through to the public and no matter how many excuses Starmer and his supporters make, as our PM and the person who appointed him they will deliver their verdict in due course
Well, yes, but it's three years to a General Election and we'll see how much "cut through" it has then.
For those opposed to Starmer and Labour, it re-enforces a view and there seems very little possible defence for Mandelson and his actions both past and more recent but the extent to which Mandelson matters very much in today's politics set against all the other issues and crises, it's harder to say.
I wouldn't want to be pounding the streets canvassing for Labour currently....
Because it would stop Republicans voting eight times each?
71% of Democrat voters, 0% of Democrat lawmakers.
Voter ID is one of those things that sounds sensible if you don't know anything about it. But isn't.
The reality is that it is very easy to do post election checks on voting.
Take mail in voting: the envelope is sealed with the voter's signature. Take a sample of 500 envelopes (you don't need the actual ballot paper), and go visit those 500 people, and confirm (a) they are citizens, (b) they did vote by mail and (c) that is their signature.
Likewise, every single person who voted in the US - well, that they voted in recorded. Like in the UK, electoral rolls, and whether people voted, are public information. You can't put extra votes in, because then there'd be a mismatch between the number of people on the rolls who'd voted. (It is possible, of course, with electronic voting. which is why it's imperative to have a paper backup that can also be spot checked.)
Isn't that what Trump is doing in Georgia and finding out that he won bigly?
I am pleased the latest Epstein dump has, like he says, exonerated Trump.
Remains to be seen of course, but so far I havent seen anything Trump related post 2012 in the Epstein papers.
All those photos etc, date from when Trump was a fully paid up Democrat, Which sort of implies his political colleagues said nothing.
Why is that ?
Trump was not a politician. All Americans register as Democrat, Republican or Independent for reasons that are beyond me. In some states it comes with a vote in that party's primaries to choose candidates. It is just the way their system works. Trump was a property developer and television personality. He was not a politician so had no political colleagues.
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Always good to see history re-written
In what way? Mandelson was never popular inside Labour, hence the Blair quote: My project will be complete when the Labour party learns to love Peter Mandelson.
Mandelson was also absolutely central to the reinvention of Labour as a party of centrist managerialism, hence the Blair quote.
But it's also true he was always hated by the left. That's why the only people salivating more than the right and tory partisans over this are the left. They share a deep antipathy to the New Labour project.
First to say I can't see Starmer resigning over this.
An atomic bomb wouldn't remove Starmer
What about a redhead?
I think this all increases the chances of Ange being next.
It makes her financial arrangements seem a bit meh, and allows her to say we've had enough of the old boy's club.
Rayner is now best-placed
As I posted as the old thread was closing.
The obvious one is Angela.
She has behaved dutifully and perfectly since resignation.
Labour has a number of very competent ministers in place she would be well advised to keep
Cooper Mahmood Healy McFadden Both Alexanders Nandy Phillipson Ed M Emma Reynolds Jarvis
Some of the new intake.
Likes of Haigh and Thornbury return.
Compares very well with threadbare Shadow Cabinet of failures like Philp, Patel Stride, Atkins, Couthino.
Badenoch probably be gone before Starmer coronation for Cleverly.
Labour edge left. Tories edge centre.
“dutifully and perfectly since resignation”.
Has she paid her tax due?
If Angela Rayner is the answer, the wrong question is definitely being asked.
She’s no Mandelson, who can keep coming back again until yet another scandal finally kills her off almost three decades later.
Angela Rayner is not the answer to any question relating to the government of this country. Maybe “how can we fuck things up more”.
The question is, who do we put our money on? Not who would be best, or who would we like, but who will win?
If it helps I'm a Labour member and if/when the vote comes I'll be judging 2 things:
Who would be the better PM? Who would more likely beat Reform?
Assuming a Streeting v Rayner choice, I'm clear on the answer to the 1st. Streeting. But on the 2nd I'm not sure at all. And if I end up concluding it's Rayner I can see myself (reluctantly) prioritising that and voting for her.
Nothing (for me) is more important than preventing Farage and his gang getting their filthy mitts on this country.
Far be it from me to suggest solutions to Labours quandary but Rayner is so far from your desire to beat Reform as you can get. Honestly - Labour supporters and members need to read the fucking room. Your only hope is a Cooper ticket with Streeting as Chancellor maybe. This fascination and love for Rayner is perplexing. She’s clearly thick as shit. And a proven tax dodger.
Ok, coming from you that's convinced me. It has to be Rayner. Sorry Wes.
The irony is, if this is what *finally* ends Starmer's premiership (as the historically low polls, constant u-turns, economy, anger of his own MPs, etc don't seem to have), Kingmaker Mandelson's long-term protege will ascend straight to No 10.
That just shows how cunning and clever Mandleson really is, coming up with this devious plot to deliver the UK our first gay PM. And such selflessness, willing to sacrifice his peerage, title and reputation in order to bring it about?
Confirmed the conservatives will use their opposition day debate tomorrow to call on the government to publically release evidence of the papar trail documents relevant to Mandelson
PMQs and this tomorrow will be quite a day in the HOC
Very narrow target
Won't be anything to see
Kemi will miss 6 open goals and then another open goal
Kemi will be gone well before Starmer
She really hasn't thought this through...
Labour will commit to releasing the documents ar 12 noon.
Check mate
You are so funny
A lot of frit blues are desperately trying to re write history here.
What's been released this week to great shock was apparently known by SKS when he appointed N Mandelson.
Thats the crux of Kemi attempt to smear.
It's just a surprise she didn't slip it on Hatties website on 2007
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
They’re actually going to turn up in Congress in person? 🎇
Yes:
The more interesting testimony, I suspect, will be Ms Clinton's. Bill will take the Fifth, because he has to. But Ms Clinton...
And fwiw, I suspect that quite a lot of people (of every political hue) will be nervous about those two testifying.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Good joke, but not as good as his Diana joke:
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
The follow up was funnier.
While Dara O'Briain was still staring with a shocked look on his face, Boyle turned to him with an engaging smile and said 'be interesting to see if that makes it in, to be honest.'
Funnily enough it didn’t make it into the TV show, and appeared in an outtakes DVD some years later.
A mate went to a recording of MtW around that time, and said they filmed for almost two hours to get a half hour show and a 45m re-edit. They just kept running, and the comics said all sorts of sh!t knowing that no-one had a phone in the audience.
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
My bad. Pedophile better.
Well, no, it's not 'better' but if he had been a paederast I suspect he would have found it much more difficult to snare so many wealthy and powerful people in his web or evade justice for so long. The American political establishment has a longstanding tendency to marginalise and ignore the rights of girls and young women but it is extremely homophobic.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
They’re actually going to turn up in Congress in person? 🎇
Yes:
The more interesting testimony, I suspect, will be Ms Clinton's. Bill will take the Fifth, because he has to. But Ms Clinton...
And fwiw, I suspect that quite a lot of people (of every political hue) will be nervous about those two testifying.
Didn’t the Clinton’s state that they would only testify if it’s public rather than in private? I imagine not being stupid people, they know who is going to be most nervous.
Because it would stop Republicans voting eight times each?
71% of Democrat voters, 0% of Democrat lawmakers.
Voter ID is one of those things that sounds sensible if you don't know anything about it. But isn't.
The reality is that it is very easy to do post election checks on voting.
Take mail in voting: the envelope is sealed with the voter's signature. Take a sample of 500 envelopes (you don't need the actual ballot paper), and go visit those 500 people, and confirm (a) they are citizens, (b) they did vote by mail and (c) that is their signature.
Likewise, every single person who voted in the US - well, that they voted in recorded. Like in the UK, electoral rolls, and whether people voted, are public information. You can't put extra votes in, because then there'd be a mismatch between the number of people on the rolls who'd voted. (It is possible, of course, with electronic voting. which is why it's imperative to have a paper backup that can also be spot checked.)
Isn't that what Trump is doing in Georgia and finding out that he won bigly?
I am pleased the latest Epstein dump has, like he says, exonerated Trump.
Remains to be seen of course, but so far I havent seen anything Trump related post 2012 in the Epstein papers.
All those photos etc, date from when Trump was a fully paid up Democrat, Which sort of implies his political colleagues said nothing.
Why is that ?
Trump was not a politician. All Americans register as Democrat, Republican or Independent for reasons that are beyond me. In some states it comes with a vote in that party's primaries to choose candidates. It is just the way their system works. Trump was a property developer and television personality. He was not a politician so had no political colleagues.
He was involved in the New York Democrat scene and donated heavily.
He donated to the Clintons and other leading figures. Including Joe Biden…
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
I appreciate it’s probably not the most pressing of matters in the current Epstein stories but when people write ‘pedophile’ it triggers my inner Luckyguy and I just want to correct the spelling.
Confirmed the conservatives will use their opposition day debate tomorrow to call on the government to publically release evidence of the papar trail documents relevant to Mandelson
PMQs and this tomorrow will be quite a day in the HOC
Very narrow target
Won't be anything to see
Kemi will miss 6 open goals and then another open goal
Kemi will be gone well before Starmer
She really hasn't thought this through...
Labour will commit to releasing the documents ar 12 noon.
Check mate
You are so funny
A lot of frit blues are desperately trying to re write history here.
What's been released this week to great shock was apparently known by SKS when he appointed N Mandelson.
Thats the crux of Kemi attempt to smear.
It's just a surprise she didn't slip it on Hatties website on 2007
I agree.
In this whole story the real problem at the heart of the story is Kemi and her smears of an honourable political titan.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Confirmed the conservatives will use their opposition day debate tomorrow to call on the government to publically release evidence of the papar trail documents relevant to Mandelson
PMQs and this tomorrow will be quite a day in the HOC
Very narrow target
Won't be anything to see
Kemi will miss 6 open goals and then another open goal
Kemi will be gone well before Starmer
She really hasn't thought this through...
Labour will commit to releasing the documents ar 12 noon.
Check mate
You are so funny
A lot of frit blues are desperately trying to re write history here.
What's been released this week to great shock was apparently known by SKS when he appointed N Mandelson.
Thats the crux of Kemi attempt to smear.
It's just a surprise she didn't slip it on Hatties website on 2007
If a plan crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, which side do you bury the survivors?
Confirmed the conservatives will use their opposition day debate tomorrow to call on the government to publically release evidence of the papar trail documents relevant to Mandelson
PMQs and this tomorrow will be quite a day in the HOC
Very narrow target
Won't be anything to see
Kemi will miss 6 open goals and then another open goal
Kemi will be gone well before Starmer
She really hasn't thought this through...
Labour will commit to releasing the documents ar 12 noon.
Check mate
You are so funny
A lot of frit blues are desperately trying to re write history here.
What's been released this week to great shock was apparently known by SKS when he appointed N Mandelson.
Thats the crux of Kemi attempt to smear.
It's just a surprise she didn't slip it on Hatties website on 2007
If a plan crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, which side do you bury the survivors?
It’s that classic scandal that everyone can imagine and understand. Nothing complicated, just a guy wandering around a peaedo’s house in his underwear about to get a bung of £75,000. Even voters with an IQ down there with Leon can relate to that.
To freak him out, they should have had a dog for scale
@chrisshipitv BREAKING: New statement from @ThamesVP on Andrew claims: “We are aware of reports about a woman said to have been taken to an address in Windsor in 2010 for sexual purposes. “We are assessing the information in line with our established procedures. "We take any reports of sexual crimes extremely seriously and encourage anyone with information to come forward. At this time, these allegations have not been reported to Thames Valley Police by either the lawyer or their client.”
A royal historian earlier today said that following Mandelson criminal investigation it was only a matter of time before Andrew comes under the same microscope
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Good joke, but not as good as his Diana joke:
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
The follow up was funnier.
While Dara O'Briain was still staring with a shocked look on his face, Boyle turned to him with an engaging smile and said 'be interesting to see if that makes it in, to be honest.'
Funnily enough it didn’t make it into the TV show, and appeared in an outtakes DVD some years later.
A mate went to a recording of MtW around that time, and said they filmed for almost two hours to get a half hour show and a 45m re-edit. They just kept running, and the comics said all sorts of sh!t knowing that no-one had a phone in the audience.
New episodes for mock the week are being made and is back on some obscure tv channel, which many of the original people, but no Frankie Boyle or Hugh Dennis.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
They’re actually going to turn up in Congress in person? 🎇
Yes:
The more interesting testimony, I suspect, will be Ms Clinton's. Bill will take the Fifth, because he has to. But Ms Clinton...
And fwiw, I suspect that quite a lot of people (of every political hue) will be nervous about those two testifying.
Didn’t the Clinton’s state that they would only testify if it’s public rather than in private? I imagine not being stupid people, they know who is going to be most nervous.
That was last week.
Now they said they wanted it to be private, with no cameras and their own note-taker producing the official record of the meeting.
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
My bad. Pedophile better.
Well, no, it's not 'better' but if he had been a paederast I suspect he would have found it much more difficult to snare so many wealthy and powerful people in his web or evade justice for so long. The American political establishment has a longstanding tendency to marginalise and ignore the rights of girls and young women but it is extremely homophobic.
Paedophile is what I should have said. I didn’t appreciate the difference so thanks for the correction.
In an interview with NPR, Melinda French Gates confirmed that she ended her marriage with Bill Gates because of allegations contained in the Epstein files.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Good joke, but not as good as his Diana joke:
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
The follow up was funnier.
While Dara O'Briain was still staring with a shocked look on his face, Boyle turned to him with an engaging smile and said 'be interesting to see if that makes it in, to be honest.'
Funnily enough it didn’t make it into the TV show, and appeared in an outtakes DVD some years later.
A mate went to a recording of MtW around that time, and said they filmed for almost two hours to get a half hour show and a 45m re-edit. They just kept running, and the comics said all sorts of sh!t knowing that no-one had a phone in the audience.
New episodes for mock the week are being made and is back on some obscure tv channel, which many of the original people, but no Frankie Boyle or Hugh Dennis.
I’m sure it will be to the same high standard it was before its resting.
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
I'm just rereading Paul Eddington's autobiography, written after he'd been forced to retire from acting. It's very good still. Not only witty and insightful but also honest about his own failings while generally extremely generous to just about everyone else with the notable exception of Joan Plowright.
Yes the Mandelson photos will likely boost Reform and the Greens in Gorton and Denton. Though Labour made a sensible choice picking a female local councillor as their candidate
Also as Damien Talks Money has explained about these deals they are actually really bad deal over the lifetime of the product.
Obvs there is nothing that could go wrong; but from the point of view of the poor old customer who merely wants the luxury of living in a house with a family while holding down a job where houses cost money and who doesn't have a bank of mum and dad, they are going to go for it if they can.
Deals like this are all about keeping the House price bubble inflated. Same with Help to Buy.
Just let gravity take effect. House prices are falling and will continue to do so.
Not falling up here Taz, going gangbusters and selling like hotcakes.
Seems to be regional Malc.
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
dry at least just now but pretty cold to say the least, boiler working overtime
Im currently in Hamburg and its -7
cols to say the least
Hello Alan, yes that is cold, at least you will get a good beer
I presume that we can assume that the intelligence services knew more about Mandelson than the general public knew when he was appointed Ambassador
What information was given to the Prime Minister that he forensically ignored?
What information was withheld from Starmer by the intelligence services?
Presumably none, because the security services didn't know the really juicy stuff.
(At least I hope they didn't know. If the spooks knew this for the last fifteen years and told nobody, that's even worse than them not knowing.)
Their record over friend to politicians and the royals Savile suggests not knowing is their standard mo.
And that's the most alarming prospect of all.
The last straw clutched by Britain Is Still Great types was that our spies were the best. Even if everything else was decaying, our secret agents were still the best. James Bond, John Steed, Mother and M and Q were still there doing it for Queen and country.
The idea that they didn't know what was happening doesn't compute. But yes- it probably should, no matter how traumatic to national pride.
Their odds setter for political betting is (was?) Matthew Shadwick/Shaddick, better known to PB regulars as @Shadsy. He used to work at Ladbrokes. A Good Egg.
Who can Starmer blame for Mandelson's appointment?
His paunchy paws are all over it
It’s a question what Starmer knew at the time. Or what can be proved he knew. And it’s not easy to get to that to be honest. Or failing that, merely a slap for should have known better and been more diligent as we would have been.
For preservation of true history, {I didn’t like it} but PB consensus liked the appointment. back Bench Conservative MPs stood up in commons said it was good appointment. What did Starmer know at tgst time that we didn’t, what the Conservatives didn’t?
Did UKs security Services not know the detail held in the Epstein Files? Is this the first time anyone’s found out the true depth of PantyPetes collusion with Epstein? Is this the first time anyone’s found out UK Business Secretary was carrying out what looks like insider trading using levers of governmental power in UK, with an investment financier friend?
Correct. Being wise after the event by the likes of Badenoch is not a good look. I don't want to be partisan but it was generally those of us on the left who disdn't approve of Mandelson's appointment. In my case as most others i suspect it was the kow-towing to the loathsome Trump that was particularly unattractive.
Always good to see history re-written
In what way? Mandelson was never popular inside Labour, hence the Blair quote: My project will be complete when the Labour party learns to love Peter Mandelson.
You’re saying that today is the final death of New Labourism?
Seems like a good time to remember some Frankie Boyle mockery of Mandelson (in terrible quality because it was the first hit and I cba finding a better one).
His comments on Thatcher's planned funeral were hilarious, whatever your views on her.
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
Good joke, but not as good as his Diana joke:
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
The follow up was funnier.
While Dara O'Briain was still staring with a shocked look on his face, Boyle turned to him with an engaging smile and said 'be interesting to see if that makes it in, to be honest.'
Funnily enough it didn’t make it into the TV show, and appeared in an outtakes DVD some years later.
A mate went to a recording of MtW around that time, and said they filmed for almost two hours to get a half hour show and a 45m re-edit. They just kept running, and the comics said all sorts of sh!t knowing that no-one had a phone in the audience.
New episodes for mock the week are being made and is back on some obscure tv channel, which many of the original people, but no Frankie Boyle or Hugh Dennis.
Yeah I saw that.
Nothing will ever beat those first few seasons though, with the totally unhinged Boyle having no filter whatsoever.
Confirmed the conservatives will use their opposition day debate tomorrow to call on the government to publically release evidence of the papar trail documents relevant to Mandelson
PMQs and this tomorrow will be quite a day in the HOC
Very narrow target
Won't be anything to see
Kemi will miss 6 open goals and then another open goal
Kemi will be gone well before Starmer
She really hasn't thought this through...
Labour will commit to releasing the documents ar 12 noon.
Check mate
You are so funny
A lot of frit blues are desperately trying to re write history here.
What's been released this week to great shock was apparently known by SKS when he appointed N Mandelson.
Thats the crux of Kemi attempt to smear.
It's just a surprise she didn't slip it on Hatties website on 2007
Dont be daft
Nobody is suggesting what was released was known to Starmer, but Mandleson's history and known links with Epstein were
Indeed Gordon Brown asked the cabinet office to look into Mandleson last year
Your every post becomes more absurd and certainly would make Morgan McSweeney proud
Just as we are constantly reminded of Cameron's pearls of wisdom over too many tweets, Ricky Gervais words of wisdom of those celebrities making speeches at award ceremories stands the test of time.
Take my hat off to Putin. This is all brilliant. Firstly obtain Compromat by activating his agent to utilise and enable Epstein who they knew was a pederast and thoroughly convincing individual able to entice and entrap those they wanted him to meet.
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
I thought Epstein was a paedophile, not a paederast? Paederast is specifically underage boys.
Paedophile is better used in its traditional way as meaning someone attracted to pre pubescent children. Its current popular usage - applying it without much discrimination to older children and young people including sometimes people at or over the age of consent - is simply too wide, and applies to all sorts of conduct which is illegal, inappropriate, immoral, oppressive and appalling but different in kind from attraction to small children.
Comments
She’s been been brilliant on Ukraine as far as I can tell, pushing hard for more aid and more sanctions on the enemy.
Another day of medium-level drama at Westminster as Mandelson continues his descent into the darkness from whence (some might suggest) he came.
The notion of discrete back channels whereby sensitive information is disseminated to those who "need to know" is as old as the hills. It's not so much what you know or who you know but when you know it and particularly if there is market advantage to be had. As an unsuccessful horse race punter of many years sitting, I'm well aware information from certain stables about certain horses is spread to key players who are able to play the markets.
That doesn't make it right but to assume it began with Mandelson...well, let's just ask who knew when the 2024 GE was going to take place and when did they know and what did they do with that advanced information or knowledge?
Is Starmer under threat? It's hard to see how - the appointment of Mandelson to the Court of King Donald was made in knowledge (though perhaps not full knowledge) of a relationship with Epstein and we know, as a well connected person, a lot of powerful people "knew" Epstein or had dealings - are they all to be condemned? We know of past associations here between senior political figures and individuals whose reputations have suffered with revelation.
As for pictures being worth a thousand words....well, in this case, I'm less certain.
She has got a serious personality disorder.
The motion is panicked and too narrow. Now she's making fairy stories up in her head.
Worth noting that the Clintons have agreed to appear to be questioned on the Epstein revelations. I imagine there will -from Bill- be a lot of 'taking the fifth', but it could be a real interesting show.
At the Grammys the other night, singer Billie Eilish made comments aimed at the US government, saying that there was no ownership of stolen land.
Well the tribe that says they own the land on which she has a rather nice house, has said that they’d quite like their land back!
https://x.com/collinrugg/status/2018726158481907801
The other default assumption must be that between them MI5, MI5, Special Branch, GCHQ and the overseas intelligence agencies with whom we had a good relationship will have known quite a lot of what we now know, and, safe to say, quite a lot more that we don't. Human nature is what it is.
Which is the bit or bits in the process which have gone wrong and why is a central question. There seem to me no possibilities that are not quite disconcerting.
That might include Starmer
Would he release it, or stay loyal to the Labour movement?
I can see it all - the Rose Garden press conference will be glorious.
Take mail in voting: the envelope is sealed with the voter's signature. Take a sample of 500 envelopes (you don't need the actual ballot paper), and go visit those 500 people, and confirm (a) they are citizens, (b) they did vote by mail and (c) that is their signature.
Likewise, every single person who voted in the US - well, that they voted in recorded. Like in the UK, electoral rolls, and whether people voted, are public information. You can't put extra votes in, because then there'd be a mismatch between the number of people on the rolls who'd voted. (It is possible, of course, with electronic voting. which is why it's imperative to have a paper backup that can also be spot checked.)
Half of me wants to be the lawyer that the crazy stalker hires, arguing that her own words at a public event preclude sanctions on any individual.
You have proved me right, havn’t you. You are trying to rewrite true history arn’t you?
Here’s a tip. On this one you don’t need to reinvent the timeline of who knew what when. It’s bad enough for PantyPete and Starmer and Labour, just playing it straight with the truth. All their trust and faith in this money mad arrogant greedy dog for 40 years is shredding them. All of them.
What’s Blair saying?
Mandy used email. Personal, public email. Email is sent from server to server all over the world until it gets to its destination. Imagine postcard being sent around the world until they happen to end up in the right place.
It’s the least secure method of sending a message ever created.
The FBI got Epstein’s emails from server logs.
The U.K. intelligence services have them - they snaffle up all the email they can into a searchable database.
As part of serious vetting, which should have happened for Mandelson -
- his previous resignation incidents should have been reviewed.
- various public allegations, previously made about him passing sensitive material to people, should have been reviewed.
- his contacts should have been reviewed.
Cross linking with the email database would have found all of this.
- was it done?
- was it hidden?
- was it known but ignored?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf6CNXwtLQA
So, as with the EU, I would leave but only on condition that before I do so I know what is going to replace it.
Philp on LBC on Sunday was quite clear that he thought the ECHR should be replaced by a UK contempt for the rule of law and the partial abolition of the separation of powers. So, No.
I am pleased the latest Epstein dump has, like he says, exonerated Trump.
Clinton: 'it depends on what the definition of the word 'is' is.'
Hope the weather is better up there than it is here.
I’m with those then and now who think more than enough was known about him not to appoint him. I don’t like idea of celebrity ambassadors, stick to the professionals.
Fair play to you for posting. A lot of PBers won’t admit to the error after such hideous details now emerged.
I assume they are a recognized company
https://x.com/i/status/2018739479092043829
All those photos etc, date from when Trump was a fully paid up Democrat, Which sort of implies his political colleagues said nothing.
Why is that ?
'She should have a state funeral. A lot of people will want to pay their respects to a great national leader. And a lot more will want to make sure she's really dead.'
cols to say the least
Now I’m retired the boiler stays on all day at the moment.
BREAKING: New statement from
@ThamesVP
on Andrew claims:
“We are aware of reports about a woman said to have been taken to an address in Windsor in 2010 for sexual purposes.
“We are assessing the information in line with our established procedures.
"We take any reports of sexual crimes extremely seriously and encourage anyone with information to come forward. At this time, these allegations have not been reported to Thames Valley Police by either the lawyer or their client.”
The more interesting testimony, I suspect, will be Ms Clinton's. Bill will take the Fifth, because he has to. But Ms Clinton...
And fwiw, I suspect that quite a lot of people (of every political hue) will be nervous about those two testifying.
Bill Gates himself said that the allegations were baseless.
I thought it was sad, you know, that they had that pop concert to commemorate Diana. I mean, she didn't have much to do with pop music, did she? They should've done something that celebrated what was really great about her life: By staging a gangbang in a minefield.
When Hilary is out of town.
Perhaps this will be her chance to put his lifetime of philandering, or worse, to bed (in a manner of speaking)?
Then, if and when this comes to light use the fall-out to implement and achieve “active measures” and cause the West an existential crisis implicating most, if not all the major players in its economic and political system. It’s outstanding. It really is.
One has to ask who the puppet master in all of this mess is. And who the person who inherited the contacts and networks which allowed Epstein to run his thoroughly abhorrent (in ways the mainstream media has not even yet dared to report) is.
We’re concentrating on Mandy and Pandy, as we would. And should. But this goes so much deeper. And we’ve not even been told what else has happened.
While Dara O'Briain was still staring with a shocked look on his face, Boyle turned to him with an engaging smile and said 'be interesting to see if that makes it in, to be honest.'
For those opposed to Starmer and Labour, it re-enforces a view and there seems very little possible defence for Mandelson and his actions both past and more recent but the extent to which Mandelson matters very much in today's politics set against all the other issues and crises, it's harder to say.
I wouldn't want to be pounding the streets canvassing for Labour currently....
He really wants Starmer out
What's been released this week to great shock was apparently known by SKS when he appointed N Mandelson.
Thats the crux of Kemi attempt to smear.
It's just a surprise she didn't slip it on Hatties website on 2007
I did not have sexual relations with that...
A mate went to a recording of MtW around that time, and said they filmed for almost two hours to get a half hour show and a 45m re-edit. They just kept running, and the comics said all sorts of sh!t knowing that no-one had a phone in the audience.
He donated to the Clintons and other leading figures. Including Joe Biden…
In this whole story the real problem at the heart of the story is Kemi and her smears of an honourable political titan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9NifqJyDMI
Now they said they wanted it to be private, with no cameras and their own note-taker producing the official record of the meeting.
The last straw clutched by Britain Is Still Great types was that our spies were the best. Even if everything else was decaying, our secret agents were still the best. James Bond, John Steed, Mother and M and Q were still there doing it for Queen and country.
The idea that they didn't know what was happening doesn't compute. But yes- it probably should, no matter how traumatic to national pride.
Nothing will ever beat those first few seasons though, with the totally unhinged Boyle having no filter whatsoever.
Ditto the old Buzzcocks shows with Mark Lamarr.
Nobody is suggesting what was released was known to Starmer, but Mandleson's history and known links with Epstein were
Indeed Gordon Brown asked the cabinet office to look into Mandleson last year
Your every post becomes more absurd and certainly would make Morgan McSweeney proud