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The pollsters have spoken about that FindOutNow poll – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,917
edited 8:23AM in General
The pollsters have spoken about that FindOutNow poll – politicalbetting.com

I always think more information is good and particularly so in a race like this where voters across spectrum will be thinking tactically. I worry however that an opinion poll with such a small sample risks obscuring the contours & narratives of the race rather than helping voters.

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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,892
    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,865
    The lottery that FON use is free to play so I don’t think that’s forbidden if you’re Muslim .

    In that case then the sample should have included respondents from that community .
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,563
    nico67 said:

    The lottery that FON use is free to play so I don’t think that’s forbidden if you’re Muslim .

    In that case then the sample should have included respondents from that community .

    It's hardly a realistic balanced sample though is it? No better than picking only Gregg's voters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,448
    edited 8:33AM
    Labour will be pleased though that even FON has them ahead of the Greens in Gorton and Denton as nationally FON has them behind the Greens. FON has Reform ahead in Gorton as they do nationally but by a narrow margin that could be overcome with Green tactical voting
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,502
    edited 8:33AM
    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    Maybe people would be happier if science stopped discovering new "stuff"?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,892
    Is that poll even on the FON site or Twix account? There is what looks like an earlier poll but then the 143 poll is said to be the first. Am I looking in the wrong places?
    https://x.com/FindoutnowUK/status/2015780557599146049
  • derekderek Posts: 6
    If Galloway stands reform win pure and simple
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,502
    edited 8:38AM
    Do people who do the Lottery have more disposable income than a random sample?

    Or are they just in a more desperate state of their finances?
  • eekeek Posts: 32,413
    Again nothing in those threads that I didn’t highlight within minutes of you (TSE) posting the original tweet.

    You can see why they’ve posted it as it’s news and I suspect they think that the representative group of people willing to waste time on a bad website in the hope of cash is representative enough to be worth posting but it probably seriously underestimates the Muslim and student demographics


  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,654
    Pick my postcode lottery players? That sounds like a poll of a fairly restricted demographic. I don't know what that demographic's characteristics may be, but it doesn't feel to me like a wide range of people.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,502
    derek said:

    If Galloway stands reform win pure and simple

    Or perhaps, Labour don't.

    Does Galloway really peel votes away from the Greens?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,908
    edited 8:43AM
    Shouldn't the BPC intervene?


    FoN remains our favourite polling company on PB unless Lord Ashcroft arrives with a similarity nice one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,064
    @cjterry.bsky.social‬

    The existence of Find Out Now implies the existence of a second pollster called Fuck Around Now
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,654
    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    ISTM we're heading into a new dark age. Who cares about learning, research, all the things that take time & effort and make demands on an individual.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,161
    HYUFD said:

    Labour will be pleased though that even FON has them ahead of the Greens in Gorton and Denton as nationally FON has them behind the Greens. FON has Reform ahead in Gorton as they do nationally but by a narrow margin that could be overcome with Green tactical voting

    Good morning

    Why should anyone be pleased with such a poll

    When I first saw it I thought a digit was missing but a poll of 143 is simply unreliable

    There will be more from other pollsters and then lets see, and in the meantime ignore FON
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,356
    When you say "distorted the betting market" do you mean in a good way such as value bets. Or something else?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,892

    Do people who do the Lottery have more disposable income than a random sample?

    Or are they just in a more desperate state of their finances?

    Or both.

    But in principle, asking a quick question on a site people are visiting for other purposes might be better than taking a massive sample of people prepared to sit through half an hour of inane questions, or running a panel, if it means less need for weighting to fix sampling problems.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,279
    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,064
    One for our "AI will take over the World" friends

    @patrickwintour
    From IPPR report
    "ChatGPT’s top source was the Guardian, which was used as a source in 58 per cent of responses, and linked to far more than any other outlet, followed by Reuters, the Independent, and the Financial Times".
    Think of the number of A level essays written by the Guardian.

    https://x.com/patrickwintour/status/2016788595172835636?s=20
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,563

    Do people who do the Lottery have more disposable income than a random sample?

    Or are they just in a more desperate state of their finances?

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/taking-part-201920-gambling-and-lotteries/gambling-and-lotteries-taking-part-survey-201920

    Note that is for The Lottery rather than this lottery.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,422
    AnneJGP said:

    Pick my postcode lottery players? That sounds like a poll of a fairly restricted demographic. I don't know what that demographic's characteristics may be, but it doesn't feel to me like a wide range of people.

    Good morning, everyone.

    That's a wider problem with all FON polls. Whether they are righter or wronger than more conventional methods remains to be seen.

    But the bigger point is that it's too easy to create the superficial image of something (in this case an opinion poll) with rather wobbly mechanisms in the background.
    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    Another manifestation of the same thing, at some level.

    We want abundant, cheap and now, and stuff the future. (STDC does big pure science, which is the ultimate in "this will probably generate a return overall, we just don't know which hits or when".)

    The human desire has always been there, what's different is the willingness to deliver it.

    Whatever happened to leaving something better for future generations?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,529
    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    Has the Gazette sent you to Sudan yet?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,677

    Do people who do the Lottery have more disposable income than a random sample?

    Or are they just in a more desperate state of their finances?

    I would imagine it would be skewed towards the gullible and so might overstate support for Reform.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,869
    edited 9:06AM
    On topic I sort of disagree with this. A poll with a teensy sample contains information, you just have wider error bars. For example like I said on the last thread the chance that Green is ahead of Labour but this poll is showing the opposite due to sampling error alone is only 4%. In the absence of any other polling, that's really useful information, especially given that Labour has been getting written off in the Discourse.

    That said it's true that professional pollsters in Britain mostly wouldn't do this, so the fact that these characters did is a sign that everything else about the poll may also be wonky.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,908
    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    I am always sceptical of Telegraph articles and their selective data.

    Their journalists, especially the masters and masteresses of the unhinged headline, work on the subjective rather than the objective. From a great organ of Fleet Street The Telegraph has become an unworthy comic, which is a shame.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,892
    edited 9:07AM
    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    NHS worse than Sudan for causing patient deaths
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/506a5224e77a3fcf

    Gift link so no paywall. Note to Kemi's PMQs team: your lot were in charge.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,459
    edited 9:12AM
    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,908

    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    NHS worse than Sudan for causing patient deaths
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/506a5224e77a3fcf

    Gift link so no paywall. Note to Kemi's PMQs team: your lot were in charge.
    This isn't the first time pre-July 2024 data has been weaponised to demonstrate how ineffective this current Government have been.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,965
    HYUFD said:

    Labour will be pleased though that even FON has them ahead of the Greens in Gorton and Denton as nationally FON has them behind the Greens. FON has Reform ahead in Gorton as they do nationally but by a narrow margin that could be overcome with Green tactical voting

    The poll has a sample of 143 yet it's being over-analysed as usual by the usual suspects.

    I got told off recently for quoting a poll with 2000 responses so you just can't win.

    On a more general point about polling and campaigning, it's a dreadful poll for Reform - I've fought enough elections to know the one place you don't want to be early is in front with a small lead because that paints a great big target on your back.

    The second place party - especially if it's within touching distance of the leader will also be happy to see a large and potentially squeezable third party vote. The campaign messaging more or less writes itself.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,302
    #competition
    1. Number of net gains (or losses -ve) for the Dems in the House?: 20
    2. Number of net gains (or losses -ve) for the Dems in the Senate?: 3
    3. Number of MSPs won by the SNP at the Holyrood election?: 59
    4. Number of AMs won by Plaid Cymru at the Senedd election?: 44
    5. UK Party recording the largest poll lead during 2026 and by what percentage (British Polling Council registered pollsters only)?: Reform, 16%
    6. Labour’s Projected National Share of the vote based on the 2026 local elections according to the BBC?: 16%
    7. Number of Reform MPs on the 31st December 2026?: 11
    8. The name of the UK Prime Minister on 31st December 2026?: Angela Rayner
    9. Will Andy Burnham will be an MP on 31st December 2026?: No
    10. UK borrowing in the financial year to November 2026 (£132.3bn to November 2025)?: £121 bn
    11. UK GDP growth in the 12 months to October 2026 (1.1% to October 2025)?: 1.5%
    12. Winners of the 2026 FIFA Men’s World Cup?: Argentina
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,543
    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    Have you controlled for (a) complexity of operations: (b) background level of mortality; (c) reporting; (d) etc
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,302

    nico67 said:

    The lottery that FON use is free to play so I don’t think that’s forbidden if you’re Muslim .

    In that case then the sample should have included respondents from that community .

    It's hardly a realistic balanced sample though is it? No better than picking only Gregg's voters.
    Restricting the franchise to Gregg's aficionados sounds good to me.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,459
    The size of the sample is one thing - error bands of ±8% I guess, assuming random selection of respondents. That can be allowed for, but the really serious problem is the unknown extent of bias introduced by the non-random selection
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,302
    One thing we can conclude from the FON poll is that the Lib Dems will not be throwing the kitchen sink at this particular by-election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,876
    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,543

    nico67 said:

    The lottery that FON use is free to play so I don’t think that’s forbidden if you’re Muslim .

    In that case then the sample should have included respondents from that community .

    It's hardly a realistic balanced sample though is it? No better than picking only Gregg's voters.
    Restricting the franchise to Gregg's aficionados sounds good to me.
    I’d be hot* and cold on that idea

    * technically ambient so as not to attract VAT
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,908
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,876
    Having watched this, I'm surprised that ICE haven't shot more protestors.
    https://x.com/AdamParkhomenko/status/2016744849332903997
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,086
    edited 9:30AM

    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    Have you controlled for (a) complexity of operations: (b) background level of mortality; (c) reporting; (d) etc
    It's a stupid comparison. The less medical treatment you offer, the less scope there is for adverse effects of medical treatment. A country that offered no medical treatment at all would also have zero adverse effects of medical treatment!

    By the way, the actual report is here:

    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/Stories/global-state-patient-safety-2025/

    Edit: Sorry, I just noticed that noneoftheabove already made the same obvious point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,517
    Small lay of Reform off the back of this poll tbh. Not a bad poll for Labour all in for the reasons Stodge points out, though I think the Greens may be understated here.
    Reform can win but not sure they deserve to be favourites..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,529
    Scott_xP said:

    @cjterry.bsky.social‬

    The existence of Find Out Now implies the existence of a second pollster called Fuck Around Now

    FIND OUTLIERS NOW :lol:
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,170

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    It's all about girth
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,497

    nico67 said:

    The lottery that FON use is free to play so I don’t think that’s forbidden if you’re Muslim .

    In that case then the sample should have included respondents from that community .

    It's hardly a realistic balanced sample though is it? No better than picking only Gregg's voters.
    How can there be such a sample? You have no choice but to exclude people who don't respond to pollsters at all about opinion or about hypothetical questions. Their actual voting habits may vary from the norm, and there appear to be quite a lot of them.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,563
    algarkirk said:

    nico67 said:

    The lottery that FON use is free to play so I don’t think that’s forbidden if you’re Muslim .

    In that case then the sample should have included respondents from that community .

    It's hardly a realistic balanced sample though is it? No better than picking only Gregg's voters.
    How can there be such a sample? You have no choice but to exclude people who don't respond to pollsters at all about opinion or about hypothetical questions. Their actual voting habits may vary from the norm, and there appear to be quite a lot of them.

    Don't let perfection be the enemy of the good.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,161

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    I genuinely hadn't realised how short he is before seeing him heading his delegation this morning
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,449
    We all know the finest of fellows are actually 5'8". Ahem.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,462
    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    ISTM we're heading into a new dark age. Who cares about learning, research, all the things that take time & effort and make demands on an individual.
    We all have the concentration span of a gold....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,876

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    I genuinely hadn't realised how short he is before seeing him heading his delegation this morning
    Surely you recall, Big_G ?
    It's why he got rid of Rayner, because she kept standing next to him in heels.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,876
    An extraordinary document. Read it.

    “Attached to this order is an appendix that identifies 96 court orders that ICE has violated in 74 cases. … ICE has likely violated more court orders in January 2026 than some federal agencies have violated in their entire existence.”

    https://x.com/ReichlinMelnick/status/2016642763169669307
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,497
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Top great communicators know instinctively how to avoid bathos without losing their audience. Imagine Carney or Blair saying this. Though if Thatcher had said something like it, she would have made it sound as if the matter was on a par with the declaration of WWII. And Major could get away with bathos 'I want to speak to the nation tonight about the the invasion of Kuwait and the cones hotline' because we liked him and his wife was probably knitting something for her friend's baby, and we identified with him as sort of normal.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,064
    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    AI is being presented as bringing average up to excellent. Its core advantage - at present at least - is bringing poor up to average-plus.

    (So experts can't understand its value and normies think it's great.)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,552

    We all know the finest of fellows are actually 5'8". Ahem.

    Bit tall actually, Mr D! But it's intellectual quality that really counts.
    That's why Johnson always looks shorter than he is.

    And a Good Morning to one and all.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,784
    AnneJGP said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    ISTM we're heading into a new dark age. Who cares about learning, research, all the things that take time & effort and make demands on an individual.
    Tool man will get the Chinese to do it all for us and we just buy cheap as chips
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,462
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,784

    We all know the finest of fellows are actually 5'8". Ahem.

    Correction MD.... 5'7" - 5'8"
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,972
    geoffw said:

    The size of the sample is one thing - error bands of ±8% I guess, assuming random selection of respondents. That can be allowed for, but the really serious problem is the unknown extent of bias introduced by the non-random selection

    Politically it looks very smart. Everyone sees Trump and America as being unstable so seeing our PM join Carney and Macron in going on a trade mission to the second wealthiest country in the world and seeing him greeted so warmly can only be good for him. By contrast Kemi looks like a Luddite
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,784

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    yes we cannot wait to get those dinghy engine parts on Ali Express, what a Titan.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,529

    We all know the finest of fellows are actually 5'8". Ahem.

    Mr Dancer, I heartily concur!
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,868
    The spectacle of BPC pollsters turning on Find Out Now is revealing.

    Quoting the thread, this poll doesn't "risk" trashing the wider credibility of Find Out Now, it has definitely trashed it. Clearly the veracity of their polling methodology is a negligible consideration compared to the need to generate headlines to support their business model.

    This then has much wider implications. If the tiny subset motivated to do the "Pick My Postcode" lottery have any substantive biases compared to the general population (which a moment's reflection tells you they will have, in spades), then what this poll tells you is that if Find Out Know know that they can't properly correct for those biases in political polling with weighting (something inherently difficult to do properly with a heavily skewed sample) then they'll still publish their polling regardless because the profile it generates helps their business model. They'll devote as much effort as necessary to window dressing to provide a fig leaf of an argument that their methodology is reliable, all that matters to them is that they can carry it off not whether that argument is correct.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,618
    edited 9:43AM
    Scott_xP said:

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    AI is being presented as bringing average up to excellent. Its core advantage - at present at least - is bringing poor up to average-plus.

    (So experts can't understand its value and normies think it's great.)

    Awful take....see Terrance Tao or Andrej Karpathy for what "experts" think. Every expert I talk to just bangs on about how it has made them superhuman with a team of minions. "Experts" who can't understand its value are because they don't know what they are doing with it.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,448
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,784
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
    A fraction of the largesse spent on illegal immigrants would cover it as well
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,159
    BREAKING: The London Premiere of the Amazon multi-$million bung to the Trump family by way of the docufilm "Melania" only got a single viewer!

    In better news for the US President, there was a 100% increase in the audience for its second showing...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,784
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: The London Premiere of the Amazon multi-$million bung to the Trump family by way of the docufilm "Melania" only got a single viewer!

    In better news for the US President, there was a 100% increase in the audience for its second showing...

    More than I would have expected , assume they just wanted out of the cold.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,702

    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    NHS worse than Sudan for causing patient deaths
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/506a5224e77a3fcf

    Gift link so no paywall. Note to Kemi's PMQs team: your lot were in charge.
    A quick scan suggests that the data may not be entirely robust, rather like the FON poll.

    "Undeveloped or developing countries are less likely to carry out as many medical procedures or treatments as in the UK, while the accuracy of reporting incidents may not be as robust."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,552
    malcolmg said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    yes we cannot wait to get those dinghy engine parts on Ali Express, what a Titan.
    I thought that he was trying to get the Chinese to stop selling engines which could be useful to people-smugglers to such people.

    Incidentally, since the craft, and their engines are abandoned when they arrive in Kent, what happens to the engines etc? Are they sold on the secondhand market (please say no!) or are they scrapped?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,702

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    Maybe people would be happier if science stopped discovering new "stuff"?
    Yep, those new cancer drugs are a pain in the arse, saving people who now get even more of their triple locked pensions, and crippling the country.

    Let 'em all die.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,843
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
    The UK was once a country with a welfare state.

    Now its a welfare state with a country.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,868
    geoffw said:

    The size of the sample is one thing - error bands of ±8% I guess, assuming random selection of respondents. That can be allowed for, but the really serious problem is the unknown extent of bias introduced by the non-random selection

    True, but the 8% has wider significance. What it tells you that if FON are prepared to publish based on an obviously tiny sample, they're hardly going to be overconcerned by the knowledge that their wider selection base could be (or even probably is) is systematically biased in ways they can't properly correct for. They'll publish any old crap so long as it helps their profile, including twice-weekly political polls even if they know them to be flawed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,870
    Asking people queuing for lottery tickets is going to understate the Greens, I'd have thought.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,702
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    AI is being presented as bringing average up to excellent. Its core advantage - at present at least - is bringing poor up to average-plus.

    (So experts can't understand its value and normies think it's great.)

    I must say that I miss @AlastairMeeks contributions below the line greatly. One of our best contributors.
    He was, but he do go (temporarily, hopefully) mad about Brexit. I note that his partner didn't die because Boris turned his medication away at Dover...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,618
    edited 9:54AM

    malcolmg said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    yes we cannot wait to get those dinghy engine parts on Ali Express, what a Titan.
    I thought that he was trying to get the Chinese to stop selling engines which could be useful to people-smugglers to such people.

    Incidentally, since the craft, and their engines are abandoned when they arrive in Kent, what happens to the engines etc? Are they sold on the secondhand market (please say no!) or are they scrapped?
    Will be about as effective as the One In One Out. There is zero chance that China stop selling cheap engines to Europe.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,972
    edited 9:55AM
    Roger said:

    geoffw said:

    The size of the sample is one thing - error bands of ±8% I guess, assuming random selection of respondents. That can be allowed for, but the really serious problem is the unknown extent of bias introduced by the non-random selection

    Politically it looks very smart. Everyone sees Trump and America as being unstable so seeing our PM join Carney and Macron in going on a trade mission to the second wealthiest country in the world and seeing him greeted so warmly can only be good for him. By contrast Kemi looks like a Luddite
    Sorry I replied to the wrong post by geoffw. It was infact this

    "Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics..."

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,870

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
    The UK was once a country with a welfare state.

    Now its a welfare state with a country.
    By (western) European standards our welfare spending is unremarkable.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,702

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    I genuinely hadn't realised how short he is before seeing him heading his delegation this morning
    As someone even shorter, I object strongly to this! Perfectly normal height. :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,618
    I hope we have all upskilled ourselves in AI thanks to the government, so we know how to prompt out of date text to image models to produce dodgy images.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,870
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: The London Premiere of the Amazon multi-$million bung to the Trump family by way of the docufilm "Melania" only got a single viewer!

    In better news for the US President, there was a 100% increase in the audience for its second showing...

    It wasn't me.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,552

    malcolmg said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    yes we cannot wait to get those dinghy engine parts on Ali Express, what a Titan.
    I thought that he was trying to get the Chinese to stop selling engines which could be useful to people-smugglers to such people.

    Incidentally, since the craft, and their engines are abandoned when they arrive in Kent, what happens to the engines etc? Are they sold on the secondhand market (please say no!) or are they scrapped?
    Will be about as effective as the One In One Out. There is zero chance that China stop selling cheap engines to Europe.
    I agree, but at least he's trying. Keeping some sort of register of customers might be a way forward. After all, how much of a market is there for these things?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,972
    edited 10:01AM
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: The London Premiere of the Amazon multi-$million bung to the Trump family by way of the docufilm "Melania" only got a single viewer!

    In better news for the US President, there was a 100% increase in the audience for its second showing...

    I watched a two minute trailer and wondered whether someone with that accent would under other circumstances be worried about being picked up by ICE

    .....oh and it looked like tripe
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,843
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
    The UK was once a country with a welfare state.

    Now its a welfare state with a country.
    By (western) European standards our welfare spending is unremarkable.
    Thanks for proving my point that someone will always rush to say that some other country spends more on welfare and so the UK's welfare spending is not a problem.

    The UK spends too much on welfare.

    Most other first world countries spend too much on welfare.

    The only variants are the precise ways, the magnitudes and the speeds which those countries are damaging themselves.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,618
    edited 10:05AM

    malcolmg said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    yes we cannot wait to get those dinghy engine parts on Ali Express, what a Titan.
    I thought that he was trying to get the Chinese to stop selling engines which could be useful to people-smugglers to such people.

    Incidentally, since the craft, and their engines are abandoned when they arrive in Kent, what happens to the engines etc? Are they sold on the secondhand market (please say no!) or are they scrapped?
    Will be about as effective as the One In One Out. There is zero chance that China stop selling cheap engines to Europe.
    I agree, but at least he's trying. Keeping some sort of register of customers might be a way forward. After all, how much of a market is there for these things?
    You want Starmer to ask the whole of Europe to register every purchase of boat bits....I imagine they won't be keen, when we have given the French millions and millions and millions to distrupt things and they basically do it one every 6 months for the gram, the idea of a Europe wide boat bits registration scheme for the benefit of the UK I think is what they call a hard sell.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,497
    kinabalu said:

    Asking people queuing for lottery tickets is going to understate the Greens, I'd have thought.

    In village culture here, and maybe most places, the unofficial admission price to anything 'free' in village hall type venues is to buy a raffle ticket for £1 (minimum). In consequence you sometimes have to bring home some unwanted piece of well intentioned stuff. This week it was an unidentifiable plant of some sort. Intuition or guesswork suggests to me that polling this group of gamblers would reach a large number unreached by any other sort of lottery.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,497
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    AI is being presented as bringing average up to excellent. Its core advantage - at present at least - is bringing poor up to average-plus.

    (So experts can't understand its value and normies think it's great.)

    I must say that I miss @AlastairMeeks contributions below the line greatly. One of our best contributors.
    Yes. may be have him back please? And David Herdson.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,702
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Asking people queuing for lottery tickets is going to understate the Greens, I'd have thought.

    In village culture here, and maybe most places, the unofficial admission price to anything 'free' in village hall type venues is to buy a raffle ticket for £1 (minimum). In consequence you sometimes have to bring home some unwanted piece of well intentioned stuff. This week it was an unidentifiable plant of some sort. Intuition or guesswork suggests to me that polling this group of gamblers would reach a large number unreached by any other sort of lottery.
    I love those kind of raffles. Used to attend Cancer Research events as a friend was on the committee. The raffle prizes were mostly terrible and plentiful. Towards the end the cry would go out "Put it back in..." as no-one wanted the 'prize'. I swear some things went round for years.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,334
    Will Muslim voters do Greens? Or can they actually do well because they can pump up the Gaza stuff?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,618
    Santander is closing a further 44 branches, putting 291 jobs at risk.

    It is the latest swathe of closures by the Spanish-owned bank which, like others on the high street, is closing bricks-and-mortar stores as customers move online.

    Last year, it announced plans to close 95, or a quarter, of its branches which had 750 workers. Lloyds Bank is also planning to shut more than 100 branches by March under a scheme of closures announced last year.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq8415jjw92o
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,221
    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    No one has the cojones to cut welfare and pensions. The state is going to go bankrupt paying people to stay at home and do nothing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,961

    Will Muslim voters do Greens? Or can they actually do well because they can pump up the Gaza stuff?

    It’s going to break the internet if Muslims vote for a party led by a gay Jew.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,552

    malcolmg said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Xi smiling broadly as he shakes Starmer's hand ahead of their talks. The Chinese have always liked dull, serious and bureaucratic UK PMs. Ted Heath was always very popular with the Chinese, also like Starmer far more than he was with UK voters
    "UK and China must build 'more sophisticated relationship', Starmer tells Xi - live updates - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cly9p5kr2q7t

    Starmer making his visit to China all about the "cost of living" in the UK shows him to be deeply unserious about geopolitics

    Notwithstanding his general incompetence, Starmer's so far uneventful trip to China has elicited invective from PB's finest for promoting trade and being smaller than a toy bear.

    Starmer stands at a diminutive 5ft 9. The same height as the statuesque Johnson.
    yes we cannot wait to get those dinghy engine parts on Ali Express, what a Titan.
    I thought that he was trying to get the Chinese to stop selling engines which could be useful to people-smugglers to such people.

    Incidentally, since the craft, and their engines are abandoned when they arrive in Kent, what happens to the engines etc? Are they sold on the secondhand market (please say no!) or are they scrapped?
    Will be about as effective as the One In One Out. There is zero chance that China stop selling cheap engines to Europe.
    I agree, but at least he's trying. Keeping some sort of register of customers might be a way forward. After all, how much of a market is there for these things?
    You want Starmer to ask the whole of Europe to register every purchase of boat bits....I imagine they won't be keen, when we have given the French millions and millions and millions to distrupt things and they basically do it one every 6 months for the gram, the idea of a Europe wide boat bits registration scheme for the benefit of the UK I think is what they call a hard sell.
    Agreed, very little seems to be practical. Sadly. However, how many of these engines are sold annually, and what proportion is the people-smugglers. After all, they only use the engine once.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,258

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    Maybe people would be happier if science stopped discovering new "stuff"?
    Maybe not, It would certainly be helpful if we stopped making more history so that we could have a think about what lessons could be drawn from it without being distracted by new stuff.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,972

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
    The UK was once a country with a welfare state.

    Now its a welfare state with a country.
    Having spent years in the whacky world of advertising I'm accustomed to the catchy well turned phrase but it has to make sense
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,497

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    First to go off-topic.

    UK physics research and science facilities face ‘substantial’ cuts
    Science and Technology Facilities Council seeks £162m cost savings, with existing projects facing axe

    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-research-councils-2026-1-uk-physics-research-and-science-facilities-face-substantial-cuts/

    Does it come to this? We can’t afford a future, we are completely consumed with what we can have right now. We’re entitled. Somehow.
    This infuriates me. It is immensely short sighted. We are selling out our children's future.
    We've spent all the money, we have buried the country under debt, we have forced them to pay through the nose for a sub par education which they will be paying for for most of their working life, we have done our best to take the housing ladder away from them and now we cannot be bothered even giving them some hope for a future.

    It is typically short sighted that we haven't reflected about who will be choosing our nursing homes in due course. Or what other amendments could be made to the current bill for that matter.
    The UK was once a country with a welfare state.

    Now its a welfare state with a country.
    By (western) European standards our welfare spending is unremarkable.
    Thanks for proving my point that someone will always rush to say that some other country spends more on welfare and so the UK's welfare spending is not a problem.

    The UK spends too much on welfare.

    Most other first world countries spend too much on welfare.

    The only variants are the precise ways, the magnitudes and the speeds which those countries are damaging themselves.

    Both points are important. Comparison with comparable countries matters. It's one of the ways of measuring what is realistically possible given the historical context we are in. But our collective weaknesses should not allow overlooking our collective strengths; which include a powerfully strong work ethic and desire to get on among the great majority of all ages.

    SFAICS the only big western exception to our sort of levels of state managed expenditure is the USA. The USA has many things to emulate, but, for example, we should also ask: Is there a relation between USA welfarism generally and the fact that they have a prison population of 1,800,000.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,677

    Leon said:

    “Envy of the world” part 7,923

    “NHS is worse than Sudan for patients’ mortality rate

    Britain ranked 141st out of 205 countries for deaths from ‘adverse effects of medical treatment’”

    Telegraph

    NHS worse than Sudan for causing patient deaths
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/506a5224e77a3fcf

    Gift link so no paywall. Note to Kemi's PMQs team: your lot were in charge.
    A quick scan suggests that the data may not be entirely robust, rather like the FON poll.

    "Undeveloped or developing countries are less likely to carry out as many medical procedures or treatments as in the UK, while the accuracy of reporting incidents may not be as robust."
    Reported in the Telegraph and quoted by Leon - two massive red flags in terms of the likely accuracy of this study.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,552

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Asking people queuing for lottery tickets is going to understate the Greens, I'd have thought.

    In village culture here, and maybe most places, the unofficial admission price to anything 'free' in village hall type venues is to buy a raffle ticket for £1 (minimum). In consequence you sometimes have to bring home some unwanted piece of well intentioned stuff. This week it was an unidentifiable plant of some sort. Intuition or guesswork suggests to me that polling this group of gamblers would reach a large number unreached by any other sort of lottery.
    I love those kind of raffles. Used to attend Cancer Research events as a friend was on the committee. The raffle prizes were mostly terrible and plentiful. Towards the end the cry would go out "Put it back in..." as no-one wanted the 'prize'. I swear some things went round for years.

    Happened to us once. We 'won' some sort of small 'decorative' cheeseboard, so put it back in the next raffle. Went round to a colleagues house shortly afterwards and saw it proudly displayed as a mantelpiece centrepiece.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,618
    China will "actively consider" implementing unilateral visa-free entry for UK citizens, said President Xi

    There are already 48 countries who have this.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,497

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Asking people queuing for lottery tickets is going to understate the Greens, I'd have thought.

    In village culture here, and maybe most places, the unofficial admission price to anything 'free' in village hall type venues is to buy a raffle ticket for £1 (minimum). In consequence you sometimes have to bring home some unwanted piece of well intentioned stuff. This week it was an unidentifiable plant of some sort. Intuition or guesswork suggests to me that polling this group of gamblers would reach a large number unreached by any other sort of lottery.
    I love those kind of raffles. Used to attend Cancer Research events as a friend was on the committee. The raffle prizes were mostly terrible and plentiful. Towards the end the cry would go out "Put it back in..." as no-one wanted the 'prize'. I swear some things went round for years.
    I turn up, buy raffle tickets, don't ask my name to be recorded and leave before the draw. My wife is slower than me so sometimes, like this week, has to come home encumbered.
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