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Time for a massive reverse ferret? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,901
edited 11:21AM in General
Time for a massive reverse ferret? – politicalbetting.com

I have been advising laying Andy Burnham to succeed Sir Keir Starmer mostly on the grounds that he’s not an MP and he cannot double job as Mayor of Greater Manchester, and that there’s no certainty he’d win a by-election.

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Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,184
    First?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,878
    @kateferguson4

    Re-upping from the other day…

    Andy Burnham allies boasted that his deal to get Andrew Gwynne to stand down and run in his seat was “all sewn up”.

    Now sounds like announcement within hours.

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/2014297530100576321?s=20
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,878
    @SamCoatesSky
    EXC:
    Could Andy Burnham be on the brink of becoming a member of the Parliament? Well he faces a BIG hurdle.
    There is a new rule - introduced in the 2026 Labour rule book https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Rule-Book-2026.pdf
    About Mayors wanting to become MP.
    It says: “Directly Elected Mayors and Police and Crime Commissioners must seek the express permission of the NEC/SEC/WEC (as applicable) before seeking nomination as Labour candidates for the Westminster Parliament. The NEC/SEC/WEC’s decision shall be final”
    Andy Burnham would have to stand down as Metro Mayor of Manchester, triggering an election for that post which Labour is not guaranteed to win and will cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.
    So these are the grounds that could be used to block Burnham by the NEC.
    I’m told Morgan McSweeny thinks he’s got the NEC sewn up to block Burnham. But you never quite know.
    If Burnham is granted permission to apply for the seat, the NEC does a long and a shortlist.
    The long list over email, then the shortlisting is done by a panel.
    The panel has 3 members of the NEC, one member of the board and a local constituency rep. The panel is chosen by the office of the general secretary, Hollie Ridley, who is close to Morgan, decides the panel.
    So it’s far from clear he wins this
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,804
    FPT
    Sandpit said:

    How many people do we think have two mobile phones?

    Rupert Lowe has a figure of 91m active phone subscriptions, against a population figure of 69m people.

    He think that’s indicative of the population being higher than the official stats, but I’m not sure. I always had a company mobile in the uk.

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/2014083705493483760

    So Rupert, I have five mobile subcriptions.

    1 personal phone, 1 for my Apple Watch, 1 for my iPad.

    I also have 1 for my work mobile and one for my work iPad which also hotspots.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,804
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    EXC:
    Could Andy Burnham be on the brink of becoming a member of the Parliament? Well he faces a BIG hurdle.
    There is a new rule - introduced in the 2026 Labour rule book https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Rule-Book-2026.pdf
    About Mayors wanting to become MP.
    It says: “Directly Elected Mayors and Police and Crime Commissioners must seek the express permission of the NEC/SEC/WEC (as applicable) before seeking nomination as Labour candidates for the Westminster Parliament. The NEC/SEC/WEC’s decision shall be final”
    Andy Burnham would have to stand down as Metro Mayor of Manchester, triggering an election for that post which Labour is not guaranteed to win and will cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.
    So these are the grounds that could be used to block Burnham by the NEC.
    I’m told Morgan McSweeny thinks he’s got the NEC sewn up to block Burnham. But you never quite know.
    If Burnham is granted permission to apply for the seat, the NEC does a long and a shortlist.
    The long list over email, then the shortlisting is done by a panel.
    The panel has 3 members of the NEC, one member of the board and a local constituency rep. The panel is chosen by the office of the general secretary, Hollie Ridley, who is close to Morgan, decides the panel.
    So it’s far from clear he wins this

    Just updated the header with that
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123
    Could it be two wrong answers in the prediction competition already? Oh well! At least I'm not alone.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290
    I hope Andy Burnham actually has a consistent and achievable policy platform if he’s going to do this, otherwise it is pointless.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,467
    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691
    Can I change my competition entry?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290
    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    If he can’t win a byelection against Reform in GM then his platform is dead on arrival.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123
    I guess it's possible that the by-election ends up being Polanski's route into Parliament.

    Will the Reform candidate be one of the ex-Tory MPs who have defected to them?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    If he can’t win a byelection against Reform in GM then his platform is dead on arrival.
    As an independent if necessary.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,310
    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I think that’s meaningless if the by election turns into a referendum on Starmer’s leadership of the Labour Party. Green voters may return if they believe in where AB could take the Labour Party. A big if.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,467
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    That does sound too close for comfort.

    What does he do if Polanski stands for the Greens, and one of the ex-Tory defectors for Reform?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290
    edited 11:40AM
    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    That does sound too close for comfort.

    What does he do if Polanski stands for the Greens, and one of the ex-Tory defectors for Reform?
    Go big or go home. If he can’t beat Polanski or Reform then the whole thing is pointless, so why not? Slithering into Parliament in an easy seat (if any of those still exist) says nothing about his ability to win a GE. Winning Gorton in those circumstances might.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,392
    Let's see what spine Starmer has to block him...

    If he's coming back to the House it is purely to take on the role of PM and nothing less. Perhaps Starmer will just tell him to fuck off.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,467

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I think that’s meaningless if the by election turns into a referendum on Starmer’s leadership of the Labour Party. Green voters may return if they believe in where AB could take the Labour Party. A big if.
    If it turns into a referendum on Starmer, is that good or bad for the Labour candidate?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290
    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I think that’s meaningless if the by election turns into a referendum on Starmer’s leadership of the Labour Party. Green voters may return if they believe in where AB could take the Labour Party. A big if.
    If it turns into a referendum on Starmer, is that good or bad for the Labour candidate?
    Depends who the candidate is
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,392
    edited 11:43AM
    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I suspect if anyone has much of a personal vote in Labour - especially in the NW - it is him. Plus Reform have been on the slide somewhat recently.

    I reckon he'd win. If allowed to stand (he won't be is my guess...).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I suspect if anyone has much of a personal vote in Labour, it is him. Plus Reform have been on the sldie somewhat recently.

    I reckon he'd win. If allowed to stand (he won't be is my guess...).
    If anyone could win as an independent candidate, it’s also him.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I think that’s meaningless if the by election turns into a referendum on Starmer’s leadership of the Labour Party. Green voters may return if they believe in where AB could take the Labour Party. A big if.
    Yes, they could. Or the Greens might be able to show up Burnham for not having any sort of plan beyond wanting to be PM - and chalk up a major by-election success themselves.

    Do the Lib Dems have any councillors in the constituency? We know what their by-election machine can do if they have a toehold, and there's a fair old run-in to May to work the seat.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I think that’s meaningless if the by election turns into a referendum on Starmer’s leadership of the Labour Party. Green voters may return if they believe in where AB could take the Labour Party. A big if.
    Yes, they could. Or the Greens might be able to show up Burnham for not having any sort of plan beyond wanting to be PM - and chalk up a major by-election success themselves.

    Do the Lib Dems have any councillors in the constituency? We know what their by-election machine can do if they have a toehold, and there's a fair old run-in to May to work the seat.
    Oh absolutely. But if he’s vacuous and unpersuasive then he can’t win a GE so no loss to Labour.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,131
    Is it a certainty that Gwynne is retiring?
    Turnout was well down last time, I'm thinking that Burnham wins at a canter if he gets the nomination but anyone else and it's probably a loss to Reform with a low Labour turnout.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,810
    edited 11:49AM

    On the topic of the safety of US elections: https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/21/trump-2020-election-prosecutions-00738778

    President Donald Trump on Wednesday said individuals will soon be prosecuted for their role in what he called the “rigged 2020 election,” continuing his fixation on an election he lost.

    Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Trump said “everybody now knows that” the 2020 presidential election was rigged and “people will soon be prosecuted for what they did.“

    I think this is a candidate for the next TACO.

    We will have today's SCOTUS ruling on the Federal Reserve, which is Trump Performative since his term finishes in about 2 months anyway aiui.

    We also have that Trump just ran away on Lindsey Halligan, his ineligible Attorney General who Pam Bondi and the other munchkins have been resolutely defending in the face of a 'corrupt, radical far left Court System' which wishes - shock! horror! - to defend the US Constitution.

    Did he not also run away on the Abrego Garcia case?

    Whenever it gets any serious attention he seems to fold.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    I suspect if anyone has much of a personal vote in Labour, it is him. Plus Reform have been on the sldie somewhat recently.

    I reckon he'd win. If allowed to stand (he won't be is my guess...).
    If anyone could win as an independent candidate, it’s also him.
    Yes. But then he has to get readmitted into Labour before he can become leader.

    I know they let Livingstone back in, after he won the London Mayoralty as an independent, but Starmer seems keener on keeping people out of the party.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,078
    "Robert Jenrick claims one of the reasons he defected to Reform is that the Conservative party is aiming for a ‘60 seat strategy’ which will leave the Tories grubbing around for votes in the ‘posh’ parts of Southern England – and even then only in the seats where the Lib Dems aren’t hoovering up anti-Labour protest votes.

    Now, leaked papers circulating among Tory MPs have been passed to The Spectator detailing exactly how that strategy would work. Three core groups of voters have been identified by the party’s strategists, led by Stephen Gilbert. These are described as ‘Potential Conservatives’, ‘persuasion voters’ and ‘tactical voters.’"

    https://spectator.com/article/revealed-inside-the-tories-60-seat-election-strategy/
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,436
    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290
    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    They are useless. That’s not really up for debate
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,623

    Let's see what spine Starmer has to block him...

    If he's coming back to the House it is purely to take on the role of PM and nothing less. Perhaps Starmer will just tell him to fuck off.

    That seems rather petty from Starmer, so yes I guess that is exactly what Starmer would do.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,436

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    They are useless. That’s not really up for debate
    Yeah, but I don't think that they think that they are.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,310
    The demographics don't *feel* that Reform-y or Green tbh.

    (And please insert a rant about how awful Power BI is for deep linking).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691
    Your regular reminder that the US Congress no longer exists in any meaningful capacity.

    For two centuries they have told us they are the shining light, the beacon of democracy; its powerhouse and irreducible core.

    All absolute fucking tosh.




    Anne Applebaum‬
    @anneapplebaum.bsky.social‬

    US law requires 2/3 Senate approval for international treaties

    https://bsky.app/profile/anneapplebaum.bsky.social/post/3mcz4iq2qvs2g
  • eekeek Posts: 32,336
    edited 11:57AM
    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,436
    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    Yeah - I agree, although it may be that the Labour processes stop him anyway without Starmer lifting a finger.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,623
    If Starmer blocks Burnham and Labour then lose the seat in May it could add to the pressure on Starmer to go. I think Labour's chances of holding the seat are probably a lot higher with Burnham than with anyone else.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,012
    edited 12:02PM
    Only real threat to Labour, for either the seat or the mayoralty, will be the Greens. And being up against Burham isn't the ideal spot for them, although they could have a decent shot at the mayoralty after
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 175
    Question...

    If Andy Burnham doesn't get the Labour nomination but decides to run as an independent, and then wins the by election.

    Can he still be run for labour leader if 80 labour MP's back him?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,808
    OT National Lottery news

    I've still not won.

    The lottery website will close for a major update this weekend.

    The facility to set a preference for whether free lucky dips go into Wednesday or Saturday draw is being withdrawn but any existing preferences will be retained; you just won't be able to change it.

    A cynic might suggest Allwyn simply forgot to include this in its redesign or testing but who am I to question our Czech lottery overlords?

    Anyway, if you do want to change your preference, pull your finger out.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691
    Foss said:

    The demographics don't *feel* that Reform-y or Green tbh.

    (And please insert a rant about how awful Power BI is for deep linking).



    Sam Freedman

    @samfr.bsky.social‬
    As I've said before this is the only seat I could see Burnham winning. Tory/Reform vote is less than half the 2024 Labour one.

    And it's in an area where Burnham has high approval ratings. But NEC would have to let him stand.


    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3mcz2swfdvr26
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,388
    Andy_JS said:

    "Robert Jenrick claims one of the reasons he defected to Reform is that the Conservative party is aiming for a ‘60 seat strategy’ which will leave the Tories grubbing around for votes in the ‘posh’ parts of Southern England – and even then only in the seats where the Lib Dems aren’t hoovering up anti-Labour protest votes.

    Now, leaked papers circulating among Tory MPs have been passed to The Spectator detailing exactly how that strategy would work. Three core groups of voters have been identified by the party’s strategists, led by Stephen Gilbert. These are described as ‘Potential Conservatives’, ‘persuasion voters’ and ‘tactical voters.’"

    https://spectator.com/article/revealed-inside-the-tories-60-seat-election-strategy/

    Interesting, thank you
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,290

    Question...

    If Andy Burnham doesn't get the Labour nomination but decides to run as an independent, and then wins the by election.

    Can he still be run for labour leader if 80 labour MP's back him?

    I imagine his position as “king over the water” would increase massively if he demonstrates that he is the only Labour winner throughout the Parliament
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,623

    Question...

    If Andy Burnham doesn't get the Labour nomination but decides to run as an independent, and then wins the by election.

    Can he still be run for labour leader if 80 labour MP's back him?

    I can't see it as he would have been ejected from the Labour Party.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,374

    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    Sandpit said:

    Voters really don’t like being taken for mugs by the politicians.

    Trying to engineer a by-election to get a mayor back into Parliament looks awfully like a stitchup, but will the Tories and Lib Dems want to stand aside or run paper candidates to let Reform challenge Burnham and keep their momentum running? Will Greens and WhateverTheyCallThemselvesThisWeek Party want to run hard and risk a Reform win?

    I actually like Burnham, he has done well in Manchester, and deserves huge praise for the way he pushed forward the Hillsborough Inquiry after being booed at the Anfield memorial service while sports minister.

    Still not sure that trying to fix a by-election works though.

    The last MRP we had suggested that Gorton was currently 30%/28%/23% Ref/Lab/Green. Feels like a net seat loss for Labour one way or another.
    That does sound too close for comfort.

    What does he do if Polanski stands for the Greens, and one of the ex-Tory defectors for Reform?
    Go big or go home. If he can’t beat Polanski or Reform then the whole thing is pointless, so why not? Slithering into Parliament in an easy seat (if any of those still exist) says nothing about his ability to win a GE. Winning Gorton in those circumstances might.
    Initial instincts: the by election won't happen; if it does it won't be Burnham nominated; if he is nominated it will be the by election of the century so far; among the candidates would be some top Reform chancer like Zahawi, Galloway, Polanski. If it gets that far my first thought is that the Greens will win.

    It isn't only the Starmer camp who won't want Burnham. The camp of every other MP with leadership ambitions won't want him either. That's a lot of grinding axes.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,808

    Question...

    If Andy Burnham doesn't get the Labour nomination but decides to run as an independent, and then wins the by election.

    Can he still be run for labour leader if 80 labour MP's back him?

    No, Burnham would need to be a Labour MP. Clause VII, page 4
    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Rule-Book-2025.pdf
  • Burnham will not be a good PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,628
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    EXC:
    Could Andy Burnham be on the brink of becoming a member of the Parliament? Well he faces a BIG hurdle.
    There is a new rule - introduced in the 2026 Labour rule book https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Rule-Book-2026.pdf
    About Mayors wanting to become MP.
    It says: “Directly Elected Mayors and Police and Crime Commissioners must seek the express permission of the NEC/SEC/WEC (as applicable) before seeking nomination as Labour candidates for the Westminster Parliament. The NEC/SEC/WEC’s decision shall be final”
    Andy Burnham would have to stand down as Metro Mayor of Manchester, triggering an election for that post which Labour is not guaranteed to win and will cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.
    So these are the grounds that could be used to block Burnham by the NEC.
    I’m told Morgan McSweeny thinks he’s got the NEC sewn up to block Burnham. But you never quite know.
    If Burnham is granted permission to apply for the seat, the NEC does a long and a shortlist.
    The long list over email, then the shortlisting is done by a panel.
    The panel has 3 members of the NEC, one member of the board and a local constituency rep. The panel is chosen by the office of the general secretary, Hollie Ridley, who is close to Morgan, decides the panel.
    So it’s far from clear he wins this

    There's the possibility that such a stitch up is downright counterproductive.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,467
    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    If Starmer announces an all-women shortlist, does Burnham turn up to hustings in a dress and announce that he identifies as a woman this week, then stand back and watch as all Hell breaks loose among the activists?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    I can't see it going well in the Oval Office when the King of the North meets Trump.

    There's only one KING.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,012
    edited 12:15PM
    Andy_JS said:

    "Robert Jenrick claims one of the reasons he defected to Reform is that the Conservative party is aiming for a ‘60 seat strategy’ which will leave the Tories grubbing around for votes in the ‘posh’ parts of Southern England – and even then only in the seats where the Lib Dems aren’t hoovering up anti-Labour protest votes.

    Now, leaked papers circulating among Tory MPs have been passed to The Spectator detailing exactly how that strategy would work. Three core groups of voters have been identified by the party’s strategists, led by Stephen Gilbert. These are described as ‘Potential Conservatives’, ‘persuasion voters’ and ‘tactical voters.’"

    https://spectator.com/article/revealed-inside-the-tories-60-seat-election-strategy/

    So "core Conservatives" are "motivated by demonstrating competence". That's an ask, right there, although Kemi is improving I suppose, and there's always voter amnesia. But, as even the Spectator admits, the LibDems are doing pretty well at moving into that market.

    Seeking to defend only half of their already-record-low tally of seats is a remarkably pessimistic strategy, although maybe a realistic one.

    It's notable that the biggest obstacle they may face with their own 'potential' supporters next time is the feeling that "they cannot win" - the card they've played for generations against a myriad of smaller parties. Karma at last....

    Seeking to put the economy at the heart of their strategy whilst remaining blindly opposed to any sort of closer economic co-operation with the EU isn't an approach over solid ground.

    Attacking Labour as the party of welfare, however, is clearly a strong attack line focused on a clear weak spot for the government.

    If Tory canvassers are going to come round to claim that their party has "learned from its mistakes", I'll be interested to hear precisely how?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,628
    Foss said:

    Could it be two wrong answers in the prediction competition already? Oh well! At least I'm not alone.

    The meta game is waiting to submit until the end of January.
    Given this year's swings of outrageous fortune, it's equally likely those of us doing that will be hoist by our petards.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691

    Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham

    NEW: Markets are reacting negatively to news Andy Burnham has a route to Parliament to challenge Keir Starmer

    The pound dropped vs the dollar, erasing an earlier gain to trade 0.1% lower

    Gilts fell, sending the 10-year yield two basis points higher to 4.48%

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2014299011746873839
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,986
    Your daily reminder that Labour/Starmer was elected to "end the chaos" 😂
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691
    GIN1138 said:

    Your daily reminder that Labour/Starmer was elected to "end the chaos" 😂

    Yes, I think that is an important point.

    Swapping PMs two years after a landslide is just going to feed the "uni-party" feeling amongst many voters.

    They are all the same etc etc...
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,310
    Nigelb said:

    Foss said:

    Could it be two wrong answers in the prediction competition already? Oh well! At least I'm not alone.

    The meta game is waiting to submit until the end of January.
    Given this year's swings of outrageous fortune, it's equally likely those of us doing that will be hoist by our petards.
    I'd rather try and predict 11 months of events than 11.5 months of events.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,812
    Won’t there be a drama if Burnham isn’t allowed to stand ?

    Not sure I could cope with him playing the martyr . Personally I find him grating and he thinks he’s the second coming .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,810
    edited 12:22PM
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Robert Jenrick claims one of the reasons he defected to Reform is that the Conservative party is aiming for a ‘60 seat strategy’ which will leave the Tories grubbing around for votes in the ‘posh’ parts of Southern England – and even then only in the seats where the Lib Dems aren’t hoovering up anti-Labour protest votes.

    Now, leaked papers circulating among Tory MPs have been passed to The Spectator detailing exactly how that strategy would work. Three core groups of voters have been identified by the party’s strategists, led by Stephen Gilbert. These are described as ‘Potential Conservatives’, ‘persuasion voters’ and ‘tactical voters.’"

    https://spectator.com/article/revealed-inside-the-tories-60-seat-election-strategy/

    So "core Conservatives" are "motivated by demonstrating competence". That's an ask, right there, although Kemi is improving I suppose, and there's always voter amnesia. But, as even the Spectator admits, the LibDems are doing pretty well at moving into that market.

    Seeking to defend only half of their already-record-low tally of seats is a remarkably pessimistic strategy, although maybe a realistic one.

    It's notable that the biggest obstacle they may face with their own 'potential' supporters next time is the feeling that "they cannot win" - the card they've played for generations against a myriad of smaller parties. Karma at last....

    Seeking to put the economy at the heart of their strategy whilst remaining blindly opposed to any sort of closer economic co-operation with the EU isn't an approach over solid ground.

    Attacking Labour as the party of welfare, however, is clearly a strong attack line focused on a clear weak spot for the government.

    If Tory canvassers are going to come round to claim that their party has "learned from its mistakes", I'll be interested to hear precisely how?
    Husk off, I think the weakness of that strategy is that Kemi is trying to build her party from a few bits from the Ming Vase they broke, without looking themselves in the mirror to deal with their nature as a collection of unprincipled, cynical shit-shovellers.

    The piece is worth a read, as is Jenrick's Mea Non Culpa interview.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,106

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    How many people do we think have two mobile phones?

    Rupert Lowe has a figure of 91m active phone subscriptions, against a population figure of 69m people.

    He think that’s indicative of the population being higher than the official stats, but I’m not sure. I always had a company mobile in the uk.

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/2014083705493483760

    So Rupert, I have five mobile subcriptions.

    1 personal phone, 1 for my Apple Watch, 1 for my iPad.

    I also have 1 for my work mobile and one for my work iPad which also hotspots.
    Do you have a smart meter? If so you probably have another.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,810
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    If Starmer announces an all-women shortlist, does Burnham turn up to hustings in a dress and announce that he identifies as a woman this week, then stand back and watch as all Hell breaks loose among the activists?
    I think Burnham's sensible move is to enjoy being Mayor of Manchester, where he has been transformative, and decide that he wants to enjoy his next 20 years of life rather than let himself be destroyed in politics.

    In terms of achievements, I think that Regional Mayors, and entrepreneurial cities somewhat on the Victorian pattern, are perhaps more important for the future of the country rather than rat-fights in the Westminster sack.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,336
    edited 12:28PM
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    If Starmer announces an all-women shortlist, does Burnham turn up to hustings in a dress and announce that he identifies as a woman this week, then stand back and watch as all Hell breaks loose among the activists?
    Nope - but it would show how desperate Starmer is to keep Burnham away from Parliament...
  • eekeek Posts: 32,336

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    That doesn't answer the questions

    1) would he be better than SKS?
    2) would he be better at retaining Labour seats than an SKS lead Labour party in the next election?

    I suspect the answer to both those questions is that neither would be difficult to achieve...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,106
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    If Starmer announces an all-women shortlist, does Burnham turn up to hustings in a dress and announce that he identifies as a woman this week, then stand back and watch as all Hell breaks loose among the activists?
    Given that the US has decided to turn politics into Team America Part Deux, it seems reasonable for the UK to turn politics into Carry On Round Big Ben.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,374
    eek said:

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    That doesn't answer the questions

    1) would he be better than SKS?
    2) would he be better at retaining Labour seats than an SKS lead Labour party in the next election?

    I suspect the answer to both those questions is that neither would be difficult to achieve...
    All politics is relative; sometimes the relativity is to domestic stuff, sometimes not. The question to ask about any UK PM or potential PM is: are you in the same league as Carney and Macron? Are you a potential international statesman for dangerous times?

    Burnham (IMO): No.

  • eekeek Posts: 32,336
    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    That doesn't answer the questions

    1) would he be better than SKS?
    2) would he be better at retaining Labour seats than an SKS lead Labour party in the next election?

    I suspect the answer to both those questions is that neither would be difficult to achieve...
    All politics is relative; sometimes the relativity is to domestic stuff, sometimes not. The question to ask about any UK PM or potential PM is: are you in the same league as Carney and Macron? Are you a potential international statesman for dangerous times?

    Burnham (IMO): No.

    Problem with that requirement is that we have no-one in the same league as Carney and Macron. Any one in that league has far better ways of earning money and easier things to do then entering UK Politics..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,106
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    If Starmer announces an all-women shortlist, does Burnham turn up to hustings in a dress and announce that he identifies as a woman this week, then stand back and watch as all Hell breaks loose among the activists?
    I think Burnham's sensible move is to enjoy being Mayor of Manchester, where he has been transformative, and decide that he wants to enjoy his next 20 years of life rather than let himself be destroyed in politics.

    In terms of achievements, I think that Regional Mayors, and entrepreneurial cities somewhat on the Victorian pattern, are perhaps more important for the future of the country rather than rat-fights in the Westminster sack.
    It’s also the case that, last time Burnham was in national politics, he wasn’t successful.

    Being mayor means that he can blame not spending more money on national government. So he can advocate free owls for all.

    One of Starmer’s problems is not being able to convince his party and MPs of why any restrictions on Owl Provision are required.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,804

    FPT

    Sandpit said:

    How many people do we think have two mobile phones?

    Rupert Lowe has a figure of 91m active phone subscriptions, against a population figure of 69m people.

    He think that’s indicative of the population being higher than the official stats, but I’m not sure. I always had a company mobile in the uk.

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/2014083705493483760

    So Rupert, I have five mobile subcriptions.

    1 personal phone, 1 for my Apple Watch, 1 for my iPad.

    I also have 1 for my work mobile and one for my work iPad which also hotspots.
    Do you have a smart meter? If so you probably have another.
    Yup, I have a few more IoT devices that have SIMs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,078
    If Labour holds this seat it'll be a near miracle.

    "Former Labour minister Andrew Gwynne is on the brink of standing down as an MP, ministers and party officials believe."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c14rrez0mr4o
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Robert Jenrick claims one of the reasons he defected to Reform is that the Conservative party is aiming for a ‘60 seat strategy’ which will leave the Tories grubbing around for votes in the ‘posh’ parts of Southern England – and even then only in the seats where the Lib Dems aren’t hoovering up anti-Labour protest votes.

    Now, leaked papers circulating among Tory MPs have been passed to The Spectator detailing exactly how that strategy would work. Three core groups of voters have been identified by the party’s strategists, led by Stephen Gilbert. These are described as ‘Potential Conservatives’, ‘persuasion voters’ and ‘tactical voters.’"

    https://spectator.com/article/revealed-inside-the-tories-60-seat-election-strategy/

    So "core Conservatives" are "motivated by demonstrating competence". That's an ask, right there, although Kemi is improving I suppose, and there's always voter amnesia. But, as even the Spectator admits, the LibDems are doing pretty well at moving into that market.

    Seeking to defend only half of their already-record-low tally of seats is a remarkably pessimistic strategy, although maybe a realistic one.

    It's notable that the biggest obstacle they may face with their own 'potential' supporters next time is the feeling that "they cannot win" - the card they've played for generations against a myriad of smaller parties. Karma at last....

    Seeking to put the economy at the heart of their strategy whilst remaining blindly opposed to any sort of closer economic co-operation with the EU isn't an approach over solid ground.

    Attacking Labour as the party of welfare, however, is clearly a strong attack line focused on a clear weak spot for the government.

    If Tory canvassers are going to come round to claim that their party has "learned from its mistakes", I'll be interested to hear precisely how?
    Oh!
    When I read "60-seat strategy" I assumed that was +60 seats, looking at winning back 60 target seats. Not only holding on to 60 seats total.

    But now, after your comment, I look at the article and it really is 60 seats total. Cor. And indeed. Blimey.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,638
    Surely an all woman short list is no bar in the modern age? Burnham can just claim to be a woman. Labour, by its own works, could not stand in her way.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,513
    Is the ball loose at the back of the scrum? Really? Doesn’t sound like it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,691

    ‪Stephen Bush‬
    @stephenkb.bsky.social‬

    Andrew Gywnne has been seriously ill for the best part of two years. Not everything is about intra-Labour beef.

    https://bsky.app/profile/stephenkb.bsky.social/post/3mcz56a4ic222
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123
    eek said:

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    That doesn't answer the questions

    1) would he be better than SKS?
    2) would he be better at retaining Labour seats than an SKS lead Labour party in the next election?

    I suspect the answer to both those questions is that neither would be difficult to achieve...
    Starmer is a do-nothing PM, which isn't doing him, Labour, or the country any favours.

    Burnham has said very little about what his alternative policy programme for the country is. There's lots of potential for him to be a do-all-the-wrong-things PM, a Labour mini-Truss. It's a lot easier to make things worse than people realise.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,326
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    Lots of hurdles for Burnham.

    I personally fail to see all the Labour MPs waving him along as he sails into the leadership. Are they really likely to feel that they are collectively so useless?

    I suspect the safest thing to do is to let Burnham try to become an MP and hope that he fails at one of the hurdles between being mayor and becoming PM.

    Stopping him will just make SKS and so look desperate and even weaker than they currently are...
    If Starmer announces an all-women shortlist, does Burnham turn up to hustings in a dress and announce that he identifies as a woman this week, then stand back and watch as all Hell breaks loose among the activists?
    I think Burnham's sensible move is to enjoy being Mayor of Manchester, where he has been transformative, and decide that he wants to enjoy his next 20 years of life rather than let himself be destroyed in politics.

    In terms of achievements, I think that Regional Mayors, and entrepreneurial cities somewhat on the Victorian pattern, are perhaps more important for the future of the country rather than rat-fights in the Westminster sack.
    That would be sensible, yes.

    Is Andy B sensible? I don't know.

    I do know that it's easier to be the King Over The Water than to actually cross The Water in a bid to become King.

    Burnham chose not to go back to Westminster in 2024, when it would have been easy. But now is presumably his last chance to use the pot or get off it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,078
    edited 1:00PM
    "@ElectionMapsUK

    Current Nowcast Projection for Gorton & Denton:

    LAB: 29.8% (-20.9)
    RFM: 26.9% (+12.8)
    GRN: 24.1% (+11.0)
    WPB: 8.0% (-2.3)
    CON: 6.1% (-1.8)
    LDM: 5.1% (+1.3)

    Changes w/ GE2024."

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/2014297372705140736

    May we live in interesting times. 😊
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,078

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    I'd be genuienly interested to know why you say this.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,638
    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    I'd be genuienly interested to know why you say this.
    Well personally don't think he will be a PM, so there's that.

    I also think that for all his King of the North nonsense, being a metro mayor is rather easier than being PM. My sense is the FLSOJ (Johnson, for it is he) was not a bad London major. But he was a terrible PM. Majors can be figureheads and cheerleaders and boosters. And they can always, ALWAYS blame the government for a lack of money, investment, cancelling HS2 etc.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,357

    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Robert Jenrick claims one of the reasons he defected to Reform is that the Conservative party is aiming for a ‘60 seat strategy’ which will leave the Tories grubbing around for votes in the ‘posh’ parts of Southern England – and even then only in the seats where the Lib Dems aren’t hoovering up anti-Labour protest votes.

    Now, leaked papers circulating among Tory MPs have been passed to The Spectator detailing exactly how that strategy would work. Three core groups of voters have been identified by the party’s strategists, led by Stephen Gilbert. These are described as ‘Potential Conservatives’, ‘persuasion voters’ and ‘tactical voters.’"

    https://spectator.com/article/revealed-inside-the-tories-60-seat-election-strategy/

    So "core Conservatives" are "motivated by demonstrating competence". That's an ask, right there, although Kemi is improving I suppose, and there's always voter amnesia. But, as even the Spectator admits, the LibDems are doing pretty well at moving into that market.

    Seeking to defend only half of their already-record-low tally of seats is a remarkably pessimistic strategy, although maybe a realistic one.

    It's notable that the biggest obstacle they may face with their own 'potential' supporters next time is the feeling that "they cannot win" - the card they've played for generations against a myriad of smaller parties. Karma at last....

    Seeking to put the economy at the heart of their strategy whilst remaining blindly opposed to any sort of closer economic co-operation with the EU isn't an approach over solid ground.

    Attacking Labour as the party of welfare, however, is clearly a strong attack line focused on a clear weak spot for the government.

    If Tory canvassers are going to come round to claim that their party has "learned from its mistakes", I'll be interested to hear precisely how?
    Oh!
    When I read "60-seat strategy" I assumed that was +60 seats, looking at winning back 60 target seats. Not only holding on to 60 seats total.

    But now, after your comment, I look at the article and it really is 60 seats total. Cor. And indeed. Blimey.
    If 60 seats is the best the Conservatives can hope for, then they really are in the same boat as the Liberals, after 1924.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,603
    Sorry, have I missed something? Has Andrew Gwynne died?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,603
    I have just had the most delicious chicken sandwich of my life. Juat normal leftover roast chicken. But transformed by being on a brioche bun. It has changed my life. (Only slightly, admittedly. But for the better.)
    And an M&S Eccles cake which my wife bought me for pudding, warmed up in the microwave. Today is turning out very well indeed.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,959
    Cookie said:

    Sorry, have I missed something? Has Andrew Gwynne died?

    I think we are at the fevered speculation of his standing down.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,660

    eek said:

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    That doesn't answer the questions

    1) would he be better than SKS?
    2) would he be better at retaining Labour seats than an SKS lead Labour party in the next election?

    I suspect the answer to both those questions is that neither would be difficult to achieve...
    Starmer is a do-nothing PM, which isn't doing him, Labour, or the country any favours.

    Burnham has said very little about what his alternative policy programme for the country is. There's lots of potential for him to be a do-all-the-wrong-things PM, a Labour mini-Truss. It's a lot easier to make things worse than people realise.
    Burnham's outburst in the run up to the budget along the lines of "why do we even care about what the bond market thinks anyway" is sufficient to tell you that a Burnham premiership would almost certainly be exceptionally short and painful.

    All the evidence is that he's a fully committed believer in the magic money tree, who hasn't yet realised that the party ended in 2008, and we're now well into the hangover.

    Truss was at least trying to achieve growth, in the hope that it would start to bring in more tax revenue to offset the losses from her tax cuts - a kind of fiscal version of diving an aircraft as the first step to pull off a loop the loop. We'll never know if she would have made it, as her party saw the ground heading towards them, panicked, threw her out of the cockpit and pulled out of the dive.

    Burnham is going to try the dive without any intention off pulling off a loop. He's just hoping that by the time the ground arrives it will be someone else's problem. The problem is that all he'll have round him are people cheerleading for "more nose down now" and "look how fast we're going - isn't it great!".
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,603
    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    Sorry, have I missed something? Has Andrew Gwynne died?

    I think we are at the fevered speculation of his standing down.
    So has he stood down? Are we reasonably expecting him to?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,857
    Oddly enough I got told by a hairdresser friend a while ago that he'd heard it on very good authority that this was happening. I gave him all the reasons that I'd read on here why that was unlikely but he assured me this was definitely a goer. Hairdressers in my experience have always been the most reliable purveyors of gossip -though not usually political -and he has never so far been wrong. I hope it doesn't happen but I fear it will.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,804
    Cookie said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    Sorry, have I missed something? Has Andrew Gwynne died?

    I think we are at the fevered speculation of his standing down.
    So has he stood down? Are we reasonably expecting him to?
    It is reported is that he will make an announcement this afternoon that he’s standing down.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,959
    Cookie said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    Sorry, have I missed something? Has Andrew Gwynne died?

    I think we are at the fevered speculation of his standing down.
    So has he stood down? Are we reasonably expecting him to?
    I think we are at the "Reasonable Expectations" stage, though it wouldn't be beyond the realms that the BBC political staff are jumping the gun alongside everyone else:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c14rrez0mr4o
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,628
    Hell yes.

    There's a new Lords amendment that will give Mayors the power to approve new underground or tram projects instead of waiting 3+ years to get the Transport Secretary to sign off.

    That means Tracy Brabin could approve the Leeds tram or Sadiq Khan could approve the Bakerloo Line Extension.

    This amendment needs to be adopted. Mayors know their area best. They should be able to pledge to voters that they will build new infrastructure and then be able to approve, fund and deliver it.

    In Spain and France, local leaders have all the power to deliver local transport. In turn, they build projects 2x faster and for less than half the price.

    https://x.com/Ben_A_Hopkinson/status/2014284561027334422
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,244


    Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham

    NEW: Markets are reacting negatively to news Andy Burnham has a route to Parliament to challenge Keir Starmer

    The pound dropped vs the dollar, erasing an earlier gain to trade 0.1% lower

    Gilts fell, sending the 10-year yield two basis points higher to 4.48%

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2014299011746873839

    I used to know a chap whose job for one of the City trading date firms was to think of off-the-cuff explanations for every tiny blip in the markets.
    "Pound plunges on news that a 207 bus arrived five minutes late."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,638


    Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham

    NEW: Markets are reacting negatively to news Andy Burnham has a route to Parliament to challenge Keir Starmer

    The pound dropped vs the dollar, erasing an earlier gain to trade 0.1% lower

    Gilts fell, sending the 10-year yield two basis points higher to 4.48%

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2014299011746873839

    I used to know a chap whose job for one of the City trading date firms was to think of off-the-cuff explanations for every tiny blip in the markets.
    "Pound plunges on news that a 207 bus arrived five minutes late."
    Could he have just nicked the reasons from Reggie Perrin?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,404
    The default assumptions on this thread seem to be that Burnham is a serious threat to Starmer and that Starmer is using the rule book etc to try and block him from getting back into Parliament.

    Is there another way of looking at this? One of the things that is condemning Starmer's premiership is the chronic lack of talent or ability on his front bench. If he is going to make a success of the time he has left he needs a stronger team. You could argue all day as to whether or not Burnham makes the team stronger but I do not think that there is any doubt he has some political talent. The same applies to Kahn who may well also be looking for a new gig in due course.

    A lot depends on how long Starmer wants. If he would be content with winning the next election, even with a much reduced majority, and leaving half way through the next Parliament then he should be paving the way for such meagre talent as the party has, not creating obstacles. Of course if he loses the next election then he would be standing down anyway.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,590
    If I was Keir Starmer, I'd be telling my MPs about the calls with Trump + the US admin this week about refusing to back down on Greenland. Then telling them to imagine Andy Burnham on the end of the line for those calls.

    Might focus a few minds.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,210


    Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham

    NEW: Markets are reacting negatively to news Andy Burnham has a route to Parliament to challenge Keir Starmer

    The pound dropped vs the dollar, erasing an earlier gain to trade 0.1% lower

    Gilts fell, sending the 10-year yield two basis points higher to 4.48%

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2014299011746873839

    Correlation != causation.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,878
    Trump is back onstage at Davos

    As well as saying the US might still end up owning Greenland, he said NATO troops were not on the frontline in Afghanistan

    Fuck this guy
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,959
    edited 1:27PM


    Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham

    NEW: Markets are reacting negatively to news Andy Burnham has a route to Parliament to challenge Keir Starmer

    The pound dropped vs the dollar, erasing an earlier gain to trade 0.1% lower

    Gilts fell, sending the 10-year yield two basis points higher to 4.48%

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/2014299011746873839

    I used to know a chap whose job for one of the City trading date firms was to think of off-the-cuff explanations for every tiny blip in the markets.
    "Pound plunges on news that a 207 bus arrived five minutes late."
    I'd expect nothing less but I approve of the effort made in getting the bus numbering right:

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/5zslFpcgkoSIacwMQIqUI/831fa8090e4ecbd401bf98d803ec037c/17-1242_Bus_Times_204__205__206__207.pdf

    EDIT: Even if you are 9 years out!:

    https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/7rSq9QI2usHE7O2TEYRnFz/bcbeff3eb37285beba80ddbbeadbd179/BN_10_Tameside_map.pdf
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,131
    I blame Leon and other sex tourists https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2026/jan/22/bathroom-door-scandal-hotels-putting-toilets-in-glass-boxes

    When I was travelling with work I had a collection of photos of outlandish toilet arrangements

    A Vietnamese hotel had both a glass walled shower room in the middle of the room and glass toilet cubicle door with telephone in the cubicle
    Boutique hotel in B A I snuck into the suite to grab photos of the half-height glass surround en-suite with external urinal

    Best hotel room for photos, got booked into the last available room somewhere in Bulgaria, Presidential Suite on the top floor, lounge with real fire, small ship themed balcony with ship's wheel, bathroom with shower, bath and jacuzzi the length of one side of the hotel and absolute priority over the lift ... when I pressed the button it stopped whatever it was doing, came to my floor and didn't stop anywhere else until it got to the floor I selected. I had a lot of fun with that :)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123
    theProle said:

    eek said:

    Burnham will not be a good PM.

    That doesn't answer the questions

    1) would he be better than SKS?
    2) would he be better at retaining Labour seats than an SKS lead Labour party in the next election?

    I suspect the answer to both those questions is that neither would be difficult to achieve...
    Starmer is a do-nothing PM, which isn't doing him, Labour, or the country any favours.

    Burnham has said very little about what his alternative policy programme for the country is. There's lots of potential for him to be a do-all-the-wrong-things PM, a Labour mini-Truss. It's a lot easier to make things worse than people realise.
    Burnham's outburst in the run up to the budget along the lines of "why do we even care about what the bond market thinks anyway" is sufficient to tell you that a Burnham premiership would almost certainly be exceptionally short and painful.

    All the evidence is that he's a fully committed believer in the magic money tree, who hasn't yet realised that the party ended in 2008, and we're now well into the hangover.

    Truss was at least trying to achieve growth, in the hope that it would start to bring in more tax revenue to offset the losses from her tax cuts - a kind of fiscal version of diving an aircraft as the first step to pull off a loop the loop. We'll never know if she would have made it, as her party saw the ground heading towards them, panicked, threw her out of the cockpit and pulled out of the dive.

    Burnham is going to try the dive without any intention off pulling off a loop. He's just hoping that by the time the ground arrives it will be someone else's problem. The problem is that all he'll have round him are people cheerleading for "more nose down now" and "look how fast we're going - isn't it great!".
    The reason I name-checked Truss was precisely this sense I get from Burnham that he thinks he can change the rules of the game, but that he doesn't understand what the consequences would be.

    I think Polanski has a much better understanding of what the constraints are than Burnham does, and would be less risky with respect to the bond markets.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,810
    Is anyone following this Board of Peace nonsense?

    Where are Belarus and similars going to get their $1bn fee * from?

    Current confirmed participants (Wiki):

    United States
    Albania
    Argentina
    Armenia
    Azerbaijan
    Belarus
    Egypt
    Hungary
    Indonesia
    Israel
    Jordan
    Kazakhstan
    Kosovo
    Kuwait
    Mongolia
    Morocco

    * Is it one-off or annual?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,123
    Scott_xP said:

    Trump is back onstage at Davos

    As well as saying the US might still end up owning Greenland, he said NATO troops were not on the frontline in Afghanistan

    Fuck this guy

    Wow. What a shit.
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