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I agree with Robert Jenrick (and Kemi Badenoch should take his advice) – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,894
edited 8:43AM in General
I agree with Robert Jenrick (and Kemi Badenoch should take his advice) – politicalbetting.com

“The party has the power to kick her out. I have been one of the few Conservatives to explicitly castigate her mini-Budget, describing it as ‘cack-handed, careless and unconservative’. I would have kicked her out of the party.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,230
    First?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,714
    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052
    Hard agree. She's a huge electoral negative to whichever party takes her in.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,251
    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,183

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    "I love that word, relationship..."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,409

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    Probably something limp and uninspiring, but at least it won't be akin to the madness emanating from the White House.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,937
    Jenrick may not have seen the last of Truss?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,203
    She's bonkers.

    Meanwhile, the markets are pretty steady. It's a holiday in the US but you would have thought there might be some serious selling this side of the pond. Instead it's all perfectly normal so far.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,593
    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    He's lost it completely. Are Americans not embarrassed by this? I'm surprised the whole country hasn't died of cringe.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,807
    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister urgently. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying.

    We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain to deal with it is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,442

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    They've already been briefing the media that he's going to try the futile attempt to triangulate, again.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,704

    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    He's lost it completely. Are Americans not embarrassed by this? I'm surprised the whole country hasn't died of cringe.
    He has no shame whatsoever and totally oblivious to reality.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    Love actually with find/replace Beckham for Saka. Bonus points if he remembers (as any true Arsenal fan would) that Bukayo is left-footed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,442

    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    He's lost it completely. Are Americans not embarrassed by this? I'm surprised the whole country hasn't died of cringe.
    The more Trump adjacent were earlier questioning the letter's veracity (when it was pretty clear that the news came from multiple sources).
    They will be back rationalising it, in due course.

    See also this:

    Here's the real tell on the Greenland thing: There was not a single person -- MAGA or neocon or conservative or other -- who was talking about seizing Greenland before Trump got this idea in his head. Not a single one. This wasn't just a non-issue, it was literally inconceivable.
    https://x.com/EricBoehm87/status/2013020107270766639
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    edited 8:59AM
    Lix Truss' response was very interesting and bitchy to Jenrick. By suggesting he is a 'Trojan Horse' she is of course saying it is she who is the real flame of populist rightwing thought and slash tax and the state etc as she tried to do in her government's budget (at least as far as tax is concerned) while Jenrick is a dangerous entryist from the big state establishment who will dilute Reform away from red meat small state principles.

    Remember too Jenrick called for Boris to resign and was a loyal Cameroon and backed Sunak over Truss in 2022 (he is the only senior Tory defector to Reform so far who backed Sunak not Truss or Braverman back then) and so Liz is clearly not a fan of BobbyJ any more than he is of her
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,093
    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,714
    It's interesting that the Mad King intended his latest batshittery to be private, and somebody at the State department effectively leaked it.

    Maybe the Americans will deal with their problem now

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    The escape for Republicans, if they choose to take it, is to expressly acknowledge he's ill. They can "celebrate his achievements" if they want to make it more politically acceptable. And they probably need to unite around JD Vance.

    It'd be of considerable benefit to them if Melania is on board.

    https://bsky.app/profile/alastairmeeks.bsky.social/post/3mcrau22wvk25
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,380
    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    Mr Rubio needs to make sure that everyone at State understands formal diplomatic letters and Tweets from the WH are not supposed to be in the same format!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,383

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    "Please! I like America!"
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,078
    Scott_xP said:

    It's interesting that the Mad King intended his latest batshittery to be private, and somebody at the State department effectively leaked it.

    Maybe the Americans will deal with their problem now

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    The escape for Republicans, if they choose to take it, is to expressly acknowledge he's ill. They can "celebrate his achievements" if they want to make it more politically acceptable. And they probably need to unite around JD Vance.

    It'd be of considerable benefit to them if Melania is on board.

    https://bsky.app/profile/alastairmeeks.bsky.social/post/3mcrau22wvk25

    He is possibly worse than Trump and doesn’t have the excuse of being mentally ill.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,301
    Truss does seem to have a zero cringe quotient.

    Agree that Kemi should say Truss has nothing to offer the Conservative Party. Let her go join Reform.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,383
    FPT
    Ratters said:

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing about the China birth rate is it is still higher than South Korea.

    The population chart there from 1950-2100 is going to look insane

    I think we inevitably end up with 'the rise of India as a power' gaining traction as a narrative in the next 20 years.

    It will be the third largest economy and pulling far away from its nearest rivals before long.

    I expect it will be its own geopolitical sphere of influence, rather than tied to another.
    India - Garbage Capital of the World
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39M2mqm7og
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,442
    Trump has pardoned so many crooks, that he's having to start all over again.

    In 2021, a convicted fraudster named Adriana Camberos was freed from prison when President Trump commuted her sentence.

    Camberos returned to crime. She and her brother were convicted in 2024 in an unrelated fraud

    This week, Trump pardoned her again

    https://x.com/JonLemire/status/2012880186841129058
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    Also from Truss 'Ann Widdecombe says, “Reform are pledged to say we’ll abolish all the DEI posts.”

    “We don’t fund them. It will be a merit-based approach.”

    Is this the way forward for the country?'
    https://x.com/trussliz/status/2013160256621158845?s=20
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,959

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    Don't Panic!

    But is this more Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or Dad's Army?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,301
    I remember having lunch with a US oil executive friend in the late 1990's.

    I said by the end of this century, China and India would have overtaken the US as an economic force. Quite likely Europe too.

    He erupted. It was just inconceivable to him.

    He would undoubtedly have voted for Trump, thereby sealing my prediction.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,807
    edited 9:13AM
    Of course it would be a good move to get rid of all traces of Liz Truss but when Labour get their act together and start investigating Baddenoch 's past record in might be worth looking into her relationship with Truss and whether she voted for her after being knocked out herself
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,836
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's interesting that the Mad King intended his latest batshittery to be private, and somebody at the State department effectively leaked it.

    Maybe the Americans will deal with their problem now

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    The escape for Republicans, if they choose to take it, is to expressly acknowledge he's ill. They can "celebrate his achievements" if they want to make it more politically acceptable. And they probably need to unite around JD Vance.

    It'd be of considerable benefit to them if Melania is on board.

    https://bsky.app/profile/alastairmeeks.bsky.social/post/3mcrau22wvk25

    He is possibly worse than Trump and doesn’t have the excuse of being mentally ill.
    What's everyone else's take on Vance? Mine is that he's a careerist. He might believe things but he doesn't believe them very hard. In the debates he made the best effort he could of not appearing nuts, within the admittedly very restrictive bounds set for him by Trump and the Maga movement, and he clearly knows what "not nuts" looks like. He'd optimize for winning the election, which would mean not invading countries that look larger than they are on the Mercator projection, and only doing tariffs to the extent necessary to intimidate businesspeople.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,301
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's interesting that the Mad King intended his latest batshittery to be private, and somebody at the State department effectively leaked it.

    Maybe the Americans will deal with their problem now

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    The escape for Republicans, if they choose to take it, is to expressly acknowledge he's ill. They can "celebrate his achievements" if they want to make it more politically acceptable. And they probably need to unite around JD Vance.

    It'd be of considerable benefit to them if Melania is on board.

    https://bsky.app/profile/alastairmeeks.bsky.social/post/3mcrau22wvk25

    He is possibly worse than Trump and doesn’t have the excuse of being mentally ill.
    It would be interesting to see how many of the current Adminitration he would keep though. Plenty have great reason to be canned and start afresh.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    rkrkrk said:

    Hard agree. She's a huge electoral negative to whichever party takes her in.

    I would not be surprised if Liz asked Farage to join Reform and he turned her down
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,332
    IanB2 said:

    Jenrick may not have seen the last of Truss?

    Is it fair to assume that Jenrick is, at least for now, awaiting orders from Reform and that his comments on Truss mean that Farage has already decided that Reform would not accept Truss?

    (SFAICS Jenrick, usually adept on social media, has not joined in the chorus of criticism of Trump's desire to obtain Greenland/imposition of tariffs on Greenland's friends. Reform generally have little to say on this.)

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    Roger said:

    Of course it would be a good move to get rid of all traces of Liz Truss but when Labour get their act together and start investigating Baddenoch 's past record in might be worth looking into her relationship with Truss and whether she voted for her after being knocked out herself

    Badenoch never endorsed Truss and I suspect voted for Sunak in the end
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,329
    edited 9:22AM
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    He's lost it completely. Are Americans not embarrassed by this? I'm surprised the whole country hasn't died of cringe.
    The more Trump adjacent were earlier questioning the letter's veracity (when it was pretty clear that the news came from multiple sources).
    They will be back rationalising it, in due course.

    See also this:

    Here's the real tell on the Greenland thing: There was not a single person -- MAGA or neocon or conservative or other -- who was talking about seizing Greenland before Trump got this idea in his head. Not a single one. This wasn't just a non-issue, it was literally inconceivable.
    https://x.com/EricBoehm87/status/2013020107270766639
    You know Trump has REALLY jumped the shark when Trumpers are casting doubts on the autheticity of his emanations.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,081

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    Nothing.

    My money would be on nothing.

    Talk about 'international order' and 'special relationship'. But it's all meaningless.

    There is basically nothing the UK can do, and whilst the EU could, it's too slow and too weak.

    So nothing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    edited 9:21AM

    I remember having lunch with a US oil executive friend in the late 1990's.

    I said by the end of this century, China and India would have overtaken the US as an economic force. Quite likely Europe too.

    He erupted. It was just inconceivable to him.

    He would undoubtedly have voted for Trump, thereby sealing my prediction.

    Yet Trump is the one prepared to engage in trade wars with China, who already have overtaken the US in PPP terms even if not nominal and certainly not gdp per capita.

    India is still behind both the US and Europe on gdp, though ahead of Germany, France, Japan and us in PPP terms now
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,030
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    He's lost it completely. Are Americans not embarrassed by this? I'm surprised the whole country hasn't died of cringe.
    The more Trump adjacent were earlier questioning the letter's veracity (when it was pretty clear that the news came from multiple sources).
    They will be back rationalising it, in due course.

    See also this:

    Here's the real tell on the Greenland thing: There was not a single person -- MAGA or neocon or conservative or other -- who was talking about seizing Greenland before Trump got this idea in his head. Not a single one. This wasn't just a non-issue, it was literally inconceivable.
    https://x.com/EricBoehm87/status/2013020107270766639
    "inconceivable"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSSW3YNgzNQ
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,346

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's interesting that the Mad King intended his latest batshittery to be private, and somebody at the State department effectively leaked it.

    Maybe the Americans will deal with their problem now

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    The escape for Republicans, if they choose to take it, is to expressly acknowledge he's ill. They can "celebrate his achievements" if they want to make it more politically acceptable. And they probably need to unite around JD Vance.

    It'd be of considerable benefit to them if Melania is on board.

    https://bsky.app/profile/alastairmeeks.bsky.social/post/3mcrau22wvk25

    He is possibly worse than Trump and doesn’t have the excuse of being mentally ill.
    What's everyone else's take on Vance? Mine is that he's a careerist. He might believe things but he doesn't believe them very hard. In the debates he made the best effort he could of not appearing nuts, within the admittedly very restrictive bounds set for him by Trump and the Maga movement, and he clearly knows what "not nuts" looks like. He'd optimize for winning the election, which would mean not invading countries that look larger than they are on the Mercator projection, and only doing tariffs to the extent necessary to intimidate businesspeople.
    Vance is US Jenrick.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,346
    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hard agree. She's a huge electoral negative to whichever party takes her in.

    I would not be surprised if Liz asked Farage to join Reform and he turned her down
    Yes. Even Farage will have limits.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052

    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    It's interesting that the Mad King intended his latest batshittery to be private, and somebody at the State department effectively leaked it.

    Maybe the Americans will deal with their problem now

    @alastairmeeks.bsky.social‬

    The escape for Republicans, if they choose to take it, is to expressly acknowledge he's ill. They can "celebrate his achievements" if they want to make it more politically acceptable. And they probably need to unite around JD Vance.

    It'd be of considerable benefit to them if Melania is on board.

    https://bsky.app/profile/alastairmeeks.bsky.social/post/3mcrau22wvk25

    He is possibly worse than Trump and doesn’t have the excuse of being mentally ill.
    What's everyone else's take on Vance? Mine is that he's a careerist. He might believe things but he doesn't believe them very hard. In the debates he made the best effort he could of not appearing nuts, within the admittedly very restrictive bounds set for him by Trump and the Maga movement, and he clearly knows what "not nuts" looks like. He'd optimize for winning the election, which would mean not invading countries that look larger than they are on the Mercator projection, and only doing tariffs to the extent necessary to intimidate businesspeople.
    I think he's quite ideological actually, albeit not perfectly aligned with Trump.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,163
    If I were Starmer now, I’d basically give a speech outlining clearly alignment with any EU response / shift toward Europe. We can’t continue like this
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 557

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Hard agree. She's a huge electoral negative to whichever party takes her in.

    I would not be surprised if Liz asked Farage to join Reform and he turned her down
    Yes. Even Farage will have limits.
    So where does she go after that? Rupert Lowe?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,038
    edited 9:22AM
    The British response has to be in the British national interest.

    Shouting at Trump would make us feel good, but it wouldn’t make any difference.

    Levying our own tariffs or restricting market access would only damage ourselves.

    The right answer is to state calmly and clearly our lines on Denmark, refuse to damage ourselves via tariffs (and say so, to make a point); but have a genuine medium term strategy to diverge militarily from the USA, partnering more closely with are reliable allies.

    Within all that, leverage this moment to strike a fair and equitable deal with the EU where we coexist and help each other militarily and economically. E.g. Yes we might as well follow most of their manufacturing rules, as the companies will anyway, but we want different animal welfare standards and more GM. Yes we can align our data standards but we take a more liberal view on AI. The common sense stuff close friends ought to be able to agree quickly to give some mutual economic support to each other while Donald has a tantrum.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052
    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister urgently. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying.

    We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain to deal with it is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    My mum is also keen on Thornberry. I think she could bring back a lot of Lib Dems/Greens to Labour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,030
    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,526
    Have the Tories not cleansed themselves of the mini budget? A decent number of it's supporters have crossed over to the dark side and of course Nigel Farage claimed the Truss budget was "the most Conservative budget since 1986".

    Tories as expressed by TSE hated it, Farage loved it!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,580
    Nothing has changed!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,442
    .
    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US..
    LOL
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,183
    edited 9:24AM
    Starmer spent about 5 seconds on values and has immediately pivoted to the importance of US investment in the UK economy.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,138
    Cicero said:

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    Probably something limp and uninspiring, but at least it won't be akin to the madness emanating from the White House.

    Good morning, everyone.
    Yes, this is one of those times where playing a calm, even insipid, long game might still be the right thing to do.

    However, the day may not be far off when something dramatic really is called for. The anger and frustration on this side of the pond can not be kept under wraps for ever. Perhaps questioning Trump's fitness for office might cause a tantrum that demonstrates to the world the truth of the matter and some decisive action is taken in Washington.

    In similar vein, if Kemi Badenoch were to quietly abandon her attempts to leave the ECHR and start being positive about future collaboration with the EU, then the removal of the bastards and the nutters might actually help the Tories back into the real world, a place where Donald J Farage can never go.
    What can any leader actually say when faced with such deranged idiocy? That letter to the Norwegian leader is barely even literate.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,807

    I wonder what Starmer is going to say this morning

    My Dear Donald

    Roses are redish
    Violets are bluish
    If it wasn't for Christmas
    We could all be Jewish
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,163
    I know Starmer is basically saying “calm discussion” will continue, but has he clocked that he is dealing with Trump. He doesn’t do calm discussion or diplomacy

    We continue to treat the world as we thought it once was, not how it is now
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,038

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    “250 years is long enough to run an experiment and I think we can all agree it has failed. Now, about those back taxes….”
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052
    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    The path to power for a Labour challenger is to go anti-Trump. At least one of them is going to there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    edited 9:28AM

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    Indeed, though if I were King Charles I don't think I could resist adding a quip to his speech at the 250th anniversary of US Independence 'glad to see that becoming a Republic and removing my 4 times great grandfather as your King has worked out so well for you!'
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,442

    Have the Tories not cleansed themselves of the mini budget? A decent number of it's supporters have crossed over to the dark side and of course Nigel Farage claimed the Truss budget was "the most Conservative budget since 1986".

    Tories as expressed by TSE hated it, Farage loved it!

    Farage loves all manner of stranger things.

    It’s a real shame that Nigel Farage is too unwell to do interviews the morning after Donald Trump threatens us with sanctions.

    Here he is with “the bravest man he ever met”. He campaigned to make Trump President, and has spent the last year enjoying all the chaos he has caused.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2012839122172334374
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,864
    Good morning

    I do not envy Starmer and did not like his fawning over Trump but he has little choice and I agree with his approach

    Anyone thinking Ed Davey 's antagonism to Trump would be helpful is just wanting to kick Trump [ as we all do] but would only have one result in making Trump more extreme

    I fear that Trump is not going to back down and his letter to Norway is alarming

    He can take devastating action against NATO, Europe and others including hugh tariffs, end US NATO membership, and withdraw support for Ukraine and withdraw his military from Europe

    Furthermore, has anyone considered that even if Trump goes others in the US will continue their demand to control Greenland

    The fact is Trump has all the cards and Europe is left powerless in a frightening change in security

    I wish Starmer well, but I really doubt that he, or indeed anyone, will change Trumps ambition to own Greenland
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,633
    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister urgently. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying.

    We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain to deal with it is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Emily Thornbury will not bring the racist voters of Reform back - recall she sneers at England flags...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,030
    biggles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    “250 years is long enough to run an experiment and I think we can all agree it has failed. Now, about those back taxes….”
    "Any country that thinks that throwing tea into cold seawater is civilised is in need of education."
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052
    biggles said:

    The British response has to be in the British national interest.

    Shouting at Trump would make us feel good, but it wouldn’t make any difference.

    Levying our own tariffs or restricting market access would only damage ourselves.

    The right answer is to state calmly and clearly our lines on Denmark, refuse to damage ourselves via tariffs (and say so, to make a point); but have a genuine medium term strategy to diverge militarily from the USA, partnering more closely with are reliable allies.

    Within all that, leverage this moment to strike a fair and equitable deal with the EU where we coexist and help each other militarily and economically. E.g. Yes we might as well follow most of their manufacturing rules, as the companies will anyway, but we want different animal welfare standards and more GM. Yes we can align our data standards but we take a more liberal view on AI. The common sense stuff close friends ought to be able to agree quickly to give some mutual economic support to each other while Donald has a tantrum.

    I've some sympathy with this, but do we keep saying this when Trump says he needs Iceland and Scotland for global security? At some point we have to say no...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056

    Good morning

    I do not envy Starmer and did not like his fawning over Trump but he has little choice and I agree with his approach

    Anyone thinking Ed Davey 's antagonism to Trump would be helpful is just wanting to kick Trump [ as we all do] but would only have one result in making Trump more extreme

    I fear that Trump is not going to back down and his letter to Norway is alarming

    He can take devastating action against NATO, Europe and others including hugh tariffs, end US NATO membership, and withdraw support for Ukraine and withdraw his military from Europe

    Furthermore, has anyone considered that even if Trump goes others in the US will continue their demand to control Greenland

    The fact is Trump has all the cards and Europe is left powerless in a frightening change in security

    I wish Starmer well, but I really doubt that he, or indeed anyone, will change Trumps ambition to own Greenland

    Depends, if the Democrats get in next time they would leave Greenland to Denmark and the people of Greenland.

    Even most Republicans only want to buy Greenland, they oppose invading it
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,346
    biggles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    “250 years is long enough to run an experiment and I think we can all agree it has failed. Now, about those back taxes….”
    Its time that the USA became the 93rd county.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,030
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US..
    LOL
    @Dura_Ace is just saluting someone's indefatigability...
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,230
    rkrkrk said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister urgently. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying.

    We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain to deal with it is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    My mum is also keen on Thornberry. I think she could bring back a lot of Lib Dems/Greens to Labour.
    My husband loves her. I think she has a slightly matronly quality that some people respond to. She's also what US politics calls a 'happy warrior'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,030
    rkrkrk said:

    biggles said:

    The British response has to be in the British national interest.

    Shouting at Trump would make us feel good, but it wouldn’t make any difference.

    Levying our own tariffs or restricting market access would only damage ourselves.

    The right answer is to state calmly and clearly our lines on Denmark, refuse to damage ourselves via tariffs (and say so, to make a point); but have a genuine medium term strategy to diverge militarily from the USA, partnering more closely with are reliable allies.

    Within all that, leverage this moment to strike a fair and equitable deal with the EU where we coexist and help each other militarily and economically. E.g. Yes we might as well follow most of their manufacturing rules, as the companies will anyway, but we want different animal welfare standards and more GM. Yes we can align our data standards but we take a more liberal view on AI. The common sense stuff close friends ought to be able to agree quickly to give some mutual economic support to each other while Donald has a tantrum.

    I've some sympathy with this, but do we keep saying this when Trump says he needs Iceland and Scotland for global security? At some point we have to say no...
    Scotland? Hmmmm. That's Ok - but only if he leaves Peebles.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,050
    edited 9:32AM
    Churchillian speech there from Starmer. We really are gifted with a visionary world leader here.

    He forgot to mention what his Father used to do as a living.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,038
    rkrkrk said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    The path to power for a Labour challenger is to go anti-Trump. At least one of them is going to there.
    I could go on for hours on why I think it would be the wrong policy for the country, but the right policy to win the Labour leadership (and possibly the next election) is one of maximum alignment with the EU and a promise to put “Rejoin” in the next manifesto, wrapped up in apparently patriotic “more in sorrow than anger” language.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,580
    Well that was a whole lot of nothing…
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,038
    rkrkrk said:

    biggles said:

    The British response has to be in the British national interest.

    Shouting at Trump would make us feel good, but it wouldn’t make any difference.

    Levying our own tariffs or restricting market access would only damage ourselves.

    The right answer is to state calmly and clearly our lines on Denmark, refuse to damage ourselves via tariffs (and say so, to make a point); but have a genuine medium term strategy to diverge militarily from the USA, partnering more closely with are reliable allies.

    Within all that, leverage this moment to strike a fair and equitable deal with the EU where we coexist and help each other militarily and economically. E.g. Yes we might as well follow most of their manufacturing rules, as the companies will anyway, but we want different animal welfare standards and more GM. Yes we can align our data standards but we take a more liberal view on AI. The common sense stuff close friends ought to be able to agree quickly to give some mutual economic support to each other while Donald has a tantrum.

    I've some sympathy with this, but do we keep saying this when Trump says he needs Iceland and Scotland for global security? At some point we have to say no...
    He’s welcome to Scotland if he agrees to take Northern Ireland off our hands at the same time….

    More seriously we should, of course, keeping saying no on Greenland and leave a “trip wire” deployment in place, but we can do that quietly and avoid the temptation to shout.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    'The US is acting with impunity and believes its power matters more than international law, the head of the UN has told the BBC.

    Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, António Guterres said Washington's "clear conviction" was that multilateral solutions were irrelevant.

    What mattered, he continued, was the "exercise of the power and influence of the United States and sometimes in this respect by the norms of international law".

    His comments come weeks after the US struck Venezuela and seized its president - and in the context of Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex Greenland.

    Guterres said he believed the founding principles of the UN - including the equality of member states - were now under threat.

    President Trump has previously been scathing in his criticism of the United Nations.

    He used his address at last September's General Assembly to question its very purpose, claiming he had "ended seven unendable wars" on his own and the UN "did not even try to help in any of them".

    "Later I realised that the UN wasn't there for us," he said.

    Presented with this damning assessment, Guterres admitted his organisation was struggling to make members abide by the international laws laid out in the UN Charter.

    The UN was "extremely engaged" in solving major global conflicts, he insisted. "But the UN has no leverage - the big powers have stronger leverage....He suggested the UN Security Council - designed to maintain international peace and security - no longer represented the world and was "ineffective".

    Any one of the council's permanent members - France, China, Russia, the UK or US - can currently veto resolutions. Both Russia and the US have used this power to frustrate global efforts to end the wars in Ukraine and Gaza.

    Guterres claimed vetoes were being used to further individual members' interests, and criticised the fact that "three European countries" were permanent members.'

    He called for changes to the council's composition - to "regain legitimacy" and "give voice to the whole world" - and to limit veto powers to avoid unacceptable "blockages".
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0zx0llpzo
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,183
    edited 9:37AM
    This was incredibly boring. Nothing tangible at all, platitudes only. If you're going to do an "address to the nation" the bare minimum has to be something akin to immediate military action, economic crisis, suspension of an alliance, or a mass casualty event like a pandemic or terrorist attack.

    He could have at least floated or hinted at some options for retaliation.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052
    Stereodog said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister urgently. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying.

    We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain to deal with it is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    My mum is also keen on Thornberry. I think she could bring back a lot of Lib Dems/Greens to Labour.
    My husband loves her. I think she has a slightly matronly quality that some people respond to. She's also what US politics calls a 'happy warrior'.
    I think it will be harder for anyone in govt to replace starmer if he goes early. Thornberry also doesn't look a Corbynite lefite (because she isn't).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,380
    edited 9:35AM
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    Indeed, though if I were King Charles I don't think I could resist adding a quip to his speech at the 250th anniversary of US Independence 'glad to see that becoming a Republic and removing my 4 times great grandfather as your King has worked out so well for you!'
    Between the Foreign Office and the Palace, there must be some aspiring comedians that can write a little light roasting of the president into the King’s speech.

    He’s just about the only man to whom Trump will show deference.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,531
    isam said:

    Hard to argue with this from James Frayne

    “Across Westminster, people are desperately talking up Badenoch. This simply isn’t reflected in polls on voting intention, and the party is heading towards oblivion.”


    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/2013081004085219394?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I fear so. Not certain, sure, but there's definite complacency.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,531
    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    Why is he so insistent on a 'deal' so soon? Insist it be on the table, but Russia isn't going to seize it tomorrow.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,864
    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    I do not envy Starmer and did not like his fawning over Trump but he has little choice and I agree with his approach

    Anyone thinking Ed Davey 's antagonism to Trump would be helpful is just wanting to kick Trump [ as we all do] but would only have one result in making Trump more extreme

    I fear that Trump is not going to back down and his letter to Norway is alarming

    He can take devastating action against NATO, Europe and others including hugh tariffs, end US NATO membership, and withdraw support for Ukraine and withdraw his military from Europe

    Furthermore, has anyone considered that even if Trump goes others in the US will continue their demand to control Greenland

    The fact is Trump has all the cards and Europe is left powerless in a frightening change in security

    I wish Starmer well, but I really doubt that he, or indeed anyone, will change Trumps ambition to own Greenland

    Depends, if the Democrats get in next time they would leave Greenland to Denmark and the people of Greenland.

    Even most Republicans only want to buy Greenland, they oppose invading it
    You dont know that

    Look at the history of US and Greenland, and there is no doubt due to climate change the Artic region is at the front of US, Russia and China interests

    The world is changing and US does not need military action to acquire Greenland as we are seeing now
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,526
    Taz said:

    Churchillian speech there from Starmer. We really are gifted with a visionary world leader here.

    He forgot to mention what his Father used to do as a living.

    Aren't you reminded of Neville Chamberlain on the steps of the Lockheed Elektra at Heston?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,499
    HYUFD said:

    'The US is acting with impunity and believes its power matters more than international law, the head of the UN has told the BBC.

    When push and shove come, power does matter more than international law though.

    It'll be Trump's political concerns that could potentially prevent an annexation of Greenland rather than anything Denmark and it's european allies might do.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 557
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    Indeed, though if I were King Charles I don't think I could resist adding a quip to his speech at the 250th anniversary of US Independence 'glad to see that becoming a Republic and removing my 4 times great grandfather as your King has worked out so well for you!'
    Between the Foreign Office and the Palace, there must be some aspiring comedians that can write a little light roasting of the president into the King’s speech.

    He’s just about the only man to whom Trump will show deference.
    A few quasi-academic observations on the powers and attributes of Absolute Monarchs might be apposite.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,052
    Eabhal said:

    This was incredibly boring. Nothing tangible at all, platitudes only. If you're going to do an "address to the nation" the bare minimum has to be something akin to immediate military action, economic crisis, suspension of an alliance, or a mass casualty event like a pandemic or terrorist attack.

    Yes - BBC even cut away to explain it was a speech about Denmark/Greenland as he went on about cost of living crisis.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,618
    Starmer is a spineless worm. Again.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,050

    Taz said:

    Churchillian speech there from Starmer. We really are gifted with a visionary world leader here.

    He forgot to mention what his Father used to do as a living.

    Aren't you reminded of Neville Chamberlain on the steps of the Lockheed Elektra at Heston?
    Indeed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,743
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Hard to argue with this from James Frayne

    “Across Westminster, people are desperately talking up Badenoch. This simply isn’t reflected in polls on voting intention, and the party is heading towards oblivion.”


    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/2013081004085219394?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I fear so. Not certain, sure, but there's definite complacency.
    25 is the magic number.

    That’s the minimum NESV the Tories need to get in May or Badenoch’s in trouble.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,499
    Has Truss not joined Reform yet ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    Pulpstar said:

    Has Truss not joined Reform yet ?

    As I said, Farage has probably blocked her application
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,220
    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    He is barking mad. Someone like Putin is more malicious, but he retains his mental faculties. Trump is a bag of emotion and misunderstanding. It's like dealing with a 6 year old.

    You know those "struggle sessions" under Mao where people had to stand up and apologise for being counter-revolutionaries? I think anyone who accused another of "Trump derangement syndrome" needs to do one of those.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056
    edited 9:42AM

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Hard to argue with this from James Frayne

    “Across Westminster, people are desperately talking up Badenoch. This simply isn’t reflected in polls on voting intention, and the party is heading towards oblivion.”


    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/2013081004085219394?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I fear so. Not certain, sure, but there's definite complacency.
    25 is the magic number.

    That’s the minimum NESV the Tories need to get in May or Badenoch’s in trouble.
    No, as long as the Tories are ahead of Labour, even 20% to 19% in NEV then Kemi will be fine even if Reform still are first.

    If the Tories come third in May behind Reform and Labour in NEV then Kemi may well face a VONC and replacement by Cleverly (who now Jenrick has gone is her main leadership rival, even if more loyal to her than BobbyJ ever was)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,030
    edited 9:42AM

    What I hope Starmer is doing is what the Chamberlain supporters say Chamberlain was doing: playing for time and preparing for the inevitable with that time.

    But I fear he's only doing one half of that.

    When Chamberlain was waving pieces of paper, his government had, for years, been re-arming. At a rate that they were finding it difficult to spend more money. Because you can't just order weapons on that scale. You have to build the factories to make the machines to build weapons, first.

    There's absolutely no sign of that kind of thinking here.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,540
    Pulpstar said:

    Has Truss not joined Reform yet ?

    Could be a bit awks if she does...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,714
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    Why is he so insistent on a 'deal' so soon? Insist it be on the table, but Russia isn't going to seize it tomorrow.
    Because he is mentally unstable
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,807

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister urgently. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying.

    We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain to deal with it is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Emily Thornbury will not bring the racist voters of Reform back - recall she sneers at England flags...
    Interesting that you should think it's impossible to win an election in the UK without appealing to racists. Blair would never have thought like that and in his day there were many more than there are now
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,783
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Roger said:

    Just listening to the news......

    Well this is embarrassing! We need to think about a new Labour leader and Prime Minister. He's a decent man but we need an altogether different approach. We need someone who is saying the things Ed Davey is saying. We're being blown around like a kite in a hurricane. The only Labour figure who has the bottle and the brain is Emily Thornberry. Starmer can be reassigned the job of sorting out the detail of the UK rejoining the EU which must happen as soon as possible and without caveats

    (Chris Packham. Very good on Radio 4. Definitely one of the good guys)

    Starmer isn't the problem. Streeting or Our Ange would behave no differently. The entire British establishment, with few laudable exceptions like Corbyn and Galloway, can conceive of no other mode of operation than supplicant grovelling before the US.

    You watch, King Prince Charles will to go the US for the 250th anniversary, say nothing about Greenland or Canada (of which state he is putatively head) and tongue DJT's hole like the craven weakling he is.
    King Charles will do what the Government tells him to do. As the UK constitution requires. The suggestion that grabbing power that isn't his, is an appropriate response to Trump's behaviour, is certainly curious.
    Indeed, though if I were King Charles I don't think I could resist adding a quip to his speech at the 250th anniversary of US Independence 'glad to see that becoming a Republic and removing my 4 times great grandfather as your King has worked out so well for you!'
    Shouldn't that be 5 times great? Four times great grandad was this obscure chap:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward,_Duke_of_Kent_and_Strathearn

    (Unless you don't count Victoria in the order of greatness.)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,220
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ariehkovler.com‬

    And another thing: that this letter was sent via official channels and not tweeted out. Nobody in State stepped in to soften or tidy it up, or to keep it quiet. Instead they blasted it out to all the other European nations.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ariehkovler.com/post/3mcr7sllwqk2i

    Mr Rubio needs to make sure that everyone at State understands formal diplomatic letters and Tweets from the WH are not supposed to be in the same format!
    How does Mr Rubio impress that fact upon Mr Trump?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,580
    Starmer is in a difficult position but this rather tedious, technocratic triangulation isn’t the message for the moment. He’d have been better issuing a statement if this was all he was going to say.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,056

    HYUFD said:

    Good morning

    I do not envy Starmer and did not like his fawning over Trump but he has little choice and I agree with his approach

    Anyone thinking Ed Davey 's antagonism to Trump would be helpful is just wanting to kick Trump [ as we all do] but would only have one result in making Trump more extreme

    I fear that Trump is not going to back down and his letter to Norway is alarming

    He can take devastating action against NATO, Europe and others including hugh tariffs, end US NATO membership, and withdraw support for Ukraine and withdraw his military from Europe

    Furthermore, has anyone considered that even if Trump goes others in the US will continue their demand to control Greenland

    The fact is Trump has all the cards and Europe is left powerless in a frightening change in security

    I wish Starmer well, but I really doubt that he, or indeed anyone, will change Trumps ambition to own Greenland

    Depends, if the Democrats get in next time they would leave Greenland to Denmark and the people of Greenland.

    Even most Republicans only want to buy Greenland, they oppose invading it
    You dont know that

    Look at the history of US and Greenland, and there is no doubt due to climate change the Artic region is at the front of US, Russia and China interests

    The world is changing and US does not need military action to acquire Greenland as we are seeing now
    I do know that.

    Not a single Democratic Congressman or Senator has said the US needs to take Greenland and 79% of Democrat voters oppose even trying to buy Greenland.

    Neither China nor Russia have said they want to acquire Greenland either
    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/just-one-five-americans-support-trumps-efforts-acquire-greenland-reutersipsos-2026-01-14/
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,434

    Good morning

    I do not envy Starmer and did not like his fawning over Trump but he has little choice and I agree with his approach

    Anyone thinking Ed Davey 's antagonism to Trump would be helpful is just wanting to kick Trump [ as we all do] but would only have one result in making Trump more extreme

    I fear that Trump is not going to back down and his letter to Norway is alarming

    He can take devastating action against NATO, Europe and others including hugh tariffs, end US NATO membership, and withdraw support for Ukraine and withdraw his military from Europe

    Furthermore, has anyone considered that even if Trump goes others in the US will continue their demand to control Greenland

    The fact is Trump has all the cards and Europe is left powerless in a frightening change in security

    I wish Starmer well, but I really doubt that he, or indeed anyone, will change Trumps ambition to own Greenland

    The danger is that Trump, in a fit of pique, withdraws support for Ukraine. I think Starmer is mindful of that. Don't do what Putin wants you to do.
    The crisis shows up the inadequacy of both Davey and Farage in their different ways.
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