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Deluded Florida pensioner chats crap again – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,892
edited 10:11AM in General
Deluded Florida pensioner chats crap again – politicalbetting.com

A terrible idea. President Trump is completely wrong to announce tariffs on the UK over Greenland. People in both UK and US will face higher costs.These tariffs will be yet another burden for businesses across our country. The sovereignty of Greenland should only be decided by… https://t.co/r4IHO2A1oK

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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274
    One of the early posters (first seems unlikely....)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274
    The amusing fig-leaf Trump uses about Greenland is to prevent Russia getting a foothold as a neighbour to America.

    Has Trump looked at a map of Alaska?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,136
    The stock markets on Tuesday are going to be a shitshow. (US markets are closed Monday this week I believe.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,501
    edited 10:18AM

    One of the early posters (first seems unlikely....)

    No you've got it. A victory lap of honour around Greenland is in order.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274
    Phil said:

    The stock markets on Tuesday are going to be a shitshow. (US markets are closed Monday this week I believe.)

    You think Trump's minions won't have already massively shorted the market?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,501
    edited 10:20AM
    Scott_xP said:

    @spignal.bsky.social‬

    2024: can Europe defend itself ALONGSIDE America?

    2025: can Europe defend itself WITHOUT America?

    2026: can Europe defend itself AGAINST America?

    2027*: can Europe defend itself AGAINST the combined forces of America and Russia.

    *2027 might be a bit late but I didn't want to ruin the continuity.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274

    One of the early posters (first seems unlikely....)

    No you've got it. A victory lap of honour around Greenland is in order.
    OK. I am just going outside and may be some time.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,479
    Farage is a traitor. That's all.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,678

    Farage is a traitor. That's all.

    What is the promised Labour defector thinking this morning...?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,479
    And remember TACO. Just a question of when.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 3,136

    Phil said:

    The stock markets on Tuesday are going to be a shitshow. (US markets are closed Monday this week I believe.)

    You think Trump's minions won't have already massively shorted the market?
    Oh, insiders are absolutely benefiting enormously from front running Trump’s bullshit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,678

    And remember TACO. Just a question of when.

    There is a slim chance he backs down just based on how bad the reaction has been and we return to 'normal'. That would be a missed opportunity. Europe should take this chance to 'smack him the mouth' economically, just to remind him not to try this shit again.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,214

    The amusing fig-leaf Trump uses about Greenland is to prevent Russia getting a foothold as a neighbour to America.

    Has Trump looked at a map of Alaska?

    "I can see Russia from my house!"

    As Sarah Palin didn't say.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    edited 10:27AM
    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,678
    @allenanalysis

    🚨 BREAKING: Republicans are now openly warning Trump that if he even tries to invade Greenland, it will END his presidency.

    And this isn’t coming from “RINOs.”

    Murkowski. McConnell. Bacon. Even Louisiana’s John Kennedy.

    When your own party is drawing a red line, you’ve gone past “America First” into “imperial meltdown.”

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2012681872598253603?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495

    And remember TACO. Just a question of when.

    Perhaps so, but it doesn't solve the problem of being unable to make deals or plan long term when everything is subordinate to capricious whims.

    It may take decades, but disentanglement with the USA as much as possible needs to happen.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,851
    This is quite a long read about US and its desire for Greenland

    https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/07/politics/us-greenland-trump-denmark-history-hnk
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,501

    Farage is a traitor. That's all.

    To consolidate this notion listen to the Russia- Ukraine speeches of convicted traitor Nathan Gill and compare and contrast (ok, the contrast is somewhat slim) with similarly dated Farage speeches on the subject of Ukraine and draw one's own conclusions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    Scott_xP said:

    @spignal.bsky.social‬

    2024: can Europe defend itself ALONGSIDE America?

    2025: can Europe defend itself WITHOUT America?

    2026: can Europe defend itself AGAINST America?

    Yes

    Partly

    Not particularly, but it wouldn't be worth it for the latter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495

    The amusing fig-leaf Trump uses about Greenland is to prevent Russia getting a foothold as a neighbour to America.

    Has Trump looked at a map of Alaska?

    Soem pretexts are more obvious than others. Think about the myriad different 'reasons' for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,404
    Apart from the obvious appeal to Trump's ego of seizing a large piece of territory, if the premise is that the US must abandon NATO - and there are certainly those in the administration who seem to think that way - then controlling Greenland starts to make logical sense.

    The cost to the US in abandoning its alliances would be immense (and even greater for the rest of us), but they are mad enough to think that way.

    In that scenario, seizing Greenland serves both purposes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    kle4 said:

    And remember TACO. Just a question of when.

    Perhaps so, but it doesn't solve the problem of being unable to make deals or plan long term when everything is subordinate to capricious whims.

    It may take decades, but disentanglement with the USA as much as possible needs to happen.
    To be clear that is irrespective of Trump, though he is a major issue. The SC may rule out some things, they may not, but they do have a generous view of presidential authority, and the precedential template for maximised and very personal use of that authority is now there, I don't think future presidents will feel the need to be as (relatively) restrained on a personal level, even though they probably wouldn't rise to Trump's level.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,571
    edited 10:34AM
    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    I think it will start to hurt him, but it does require his opponents to be more fleet of foot and cleverer with their messaging than they currently are.

    It requires Starmer to articulate a stronger foreign policy - if that means a closer alignment with Europe’s economic and defence apparatus then so be it - he needs to be selling that rather than half-heartedly talking about aspirations for closer relations.

    Badenoch has come out quite strongly against Trump and if she’s savvy she’ll realise she can also make it a key differentiator with Reform, though her challenge is how she squares the European side of things and keeps her party happy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    Nigelb said:

    Apart from the obvious appeal to Trump's ego of seizing a large piece of territory, if the premise is that the US must abandon NATO - and there are certainly those in the administration who seem to think that way - then controlling Greenland starts to make logical sense.

    The cost to the US in abandoning its alliances would be immense (and even greater for the rest of us), but they are mad enough to think that way.

    In that scenario, seizing Greenland serves both purposes.

    And it would not be their fault (in their eyes), it would be the fault of the Europeans for callously rejecting the USA's entirely fair and generous offer.

    Should play well with MAGA.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,404
    Scott_xP said:

    @allenanalysis

    🚨 BREAKING: Republicans are now openly warning Trump that if he even tries to invade Greenland, it will END his presidency.

    And this isn’t coming from “RINOs.”

    Murkowski. McConnell. Bacon. Even Louisiana’s John Kennedy.

    When your own party is drawing a red line, you’ve gone past “America First” into “imperial meltdown.”

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2012681872598253603?s=20

    That is the hope.
    A very large majority of Americans oppose this idiocy. The same isn't true, though, of the Republican Party itself.

    This year will determine whether both US democracy and the western alliance have any future.
    It is that stark.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,214
    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?
  • isamisam Posts: 43,380
    edited 10:38AM
    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    I think there’s a lot of overlap between people saying “he looks ill/tired” and those certain he isn’t really ill this morning. It was similar with Boris; loads of comments about how unhealthy he looked, until he was in hospital, then it was all staged or overdone!

    Convenient for Farage to miss the interview this morning though

    He definitely looks rougher recently than a year or so ago. In the jungle he looked pretty good, now he seems to be dressing like an old man as well as looking a bit grim. I am sure he didn’t/doesn’t really want Jenrick on board, his welcome message was very half hearted

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2012519021363486926?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @allenanalysis

    🚨 BREAKING: Republicans are now openly warning Trump that if he even tries to invade Greenland, it will END his presidency.

    And this isn’t coming from “RINOs.”

    Murkowski. McConnell. Bacon. Even Louisiana’s John Kennedy.

    When your own party is drawing a red line, you’ve gone past “America First” into “imperial meltdown.”

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2012681872598253603?s=20

    Quite a lot of them said that about his attempted coup in 2021.

    Only one of them (Murkowski) voted to convict the bastard when given the chance.

    If they had we wouldn't be in this mess.
    If memory serves McConnell basically said that Trump was responsible for 6 Jan but wouldn't vote to convict anyway.

    Presumably the doddering fool assumed Trump was done so no need to open party faultlines by convicting him, and what did that get him?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,404
    This is your median GOP congressman.

    Was a clear sky this am, now this. Didn’t Florida ban spraying chemicals in our sky’s? We need to ban it nationwide. There is no way that water vapor would stay that long in the sky.
    https://x.com/RepGregSteube/status/2012591439314669839
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,994

    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?

    You’re almost there, in maximalist nationalist irredentism.

    The final touch is the Ukraine/Republic of China border.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    Nigelb said:

    This is your median GOP congressman.

    Was a clear sky this am, now this. Didn’t Florida ban spraying chemicals in our sky’s? We need to ban it nationwide. There is no way that water vapor would stay that long in the sky.
    https://x.com/RepGregSteube/status/2012591439314669839

    Contrails, vaccine denialism, naked imperialism, what joys will be next?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,501
    Nigelb said:

    Apart from the obvious appeal to Trump's ego of seizing a large piece of territory, if the premise is that the US must abandon NATO - and there are certainly those in the administration who seem to think that way - then controlling Greenland starts to make logical sense.

    The cost to the US in abandoning its alliances would be immense (and even greater for the rest of us), but they are mad enough to think that way.

    In that scenario, seizing Greenland serves both purposes.

    I have long considered Trump's adjacency to the former Eastern bloc to be a potential threat. Is he an asset? The evidence both direct and circumstantial suggests this could have some mileage.

    When people were being shot for leaving East Berlin, Trump seemed to be able to come and go beyond the Iron Curtain at will.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,176

    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?

    You’re almost there, in maximalist nationalist irredentism.

    The final touch is the Ukraine/Republic of China border.
    Republic of Ireland looking shifty recently. Perhaps we should invade.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    I think there’s a lot of overlap between people saying “he looks ill/tired” and those certain he isn’t really ill this morning. It was similar with Boris; loads of comments about how unhealthy he looked, until he was in hospital, then it was all staged or overdone!

    Convenient for Farage to miss the interview this morning though

    He definitely looks rougher recently than a year or so ago. In the jungle he looked pretty good, now he seems to be dressing like an old man as well as looking a bit grim. I am sure he didn’t/doesn’t really want Jenrick on board, his welcome message was very half hearted

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2012519021363486926?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    I don't rule out he is actually ill of course. I often reflect how infrequently it seems top politicians are 'off' ill, as they probably have to push through it.

    Though there's also the prolific commenter problem for Farage - he's very active and vocal, and even if he was really ill he can put out videos and the like unless it's very serious, so whenever he chooses to do the bare minimum instead it is very obvious and raises the question of why not talk about x etc.

    Not a uniquely Faragian problem, that, but a moderate level of online engagement for a politician makes strategic silences less apparent.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,404
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @allenanalysis

    🚨 BREAKING: Republicans are now openly warning Trump that if he even tries to invade Greenland, it will END his presidency.

    And this isn’t coming from “RINOs.”

    Murkowski. McConnell. Bacon. Even Louisiana’s John Kennedy.

    When your own party is drawing a red line, you’ve gone past “America First” into “imperial meltdown.”

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2012681872598253603?s=20

    Quite a lot of them said that about his attempted coup in 2021.

    Only one of them (Murkowski) voted to convict the bastard when given the chance.

    If they had we wouldn't be in this mess.
    There's a lot of this sort of comment, and not very much actual impeachment.

    It's truly shocking that a president ordering unilateral tariffs against an ally, for the purposes of acquiring territory that has been theirs for centuries, and beyond any legislated authority isn't immediately met by unanimous calls for impeachment from Congress.
    https://x.com/michaelzlin/status/2012744014156517759

    Public opinion is now strongly against Trump, but is that enough ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    carnforth said:

    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?

    You’re almost there, in maximalist nationalist irredentism.

    The final touch is the Ukraine/Republic of China border.
    Republic of Ireland looking shifty recently. Perhaps we should invade.
    And very wealthy according to GDP, time for a raid.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,994

    Nigelb said:

    Apart from the obvious appeal to Trump's ego of seizing a large piece of territory, if the premise is that the US must abandon NATO - and there are certainly those in the administration who seem to think that way - then controlling Greenland starts to make logical sense.

    The cost to the US in abandoning its alliances would be immense (and even greater for the rest of us), but they are mad enough to think that way.

    In that scenario, seizing Greenland serves both purposes.

    I have long considered Trump's adjacency to the former Eastern bloc to be a potential threat. Is he an asset? The evidence both direct and circumstantial suggests this could have some mileage.

    When people were being shot for leaving East Berlin, Trump seemed to be able to come and go beyond the Iron Curtain at will.
    Eastern Europe was open for business all through the post Stalin part of the Cold War.

    The scale of the trade might surprise you, Did you know that Reagan authorised grain sales to the USSR without political preconditions? Which upset his more hardline advisors - who wanted to trade political issues. Reagan’s theory was that hungry people get desperate….

    In addition, the Soviet blok adored Western currency and saw exports as a very important political affirmation of their system.

    There are endless tales of the fun of dealing there. And the often clumsy approaches from the KGB to various businessmen.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,176


    The view from Taipei this evening, where building continues apace.

    No one here talks about a Chinese invasion as a serious possibility. But perhaps that's a defence mechanism (no pun intended).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    edited 10:52AM
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @allenanalysis

    🚨 BREAKING: Republicans are now openly warning Trump that if he even tries to invade Greenland, it will END his presidency.

    And this isn’t coming from “RINOs.”

    Murkowski. McConnell. Bacon. Even Louisiana’s John Kennedy.

    When your own party is drawing a red line, you’ve gone past “America First” into “imperial meltdown.”

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2012681872598253603?s=20

    That is the hope.
    A very large majority of Americans oppose this idiocy. The same isn't true, though, of the Republican Party itself.

    This year will determine whether both US democracy and the western alliance have any future.
    It is that stark.
    When things get (slightly) quieter the GOP will forget all this in a week. I know I have a pessimistic view of the situation there, and HYUFD will point to the polling on Greenland is not good even among the GOP, but I'm convinced that's already changing, and the more aggressive Trump gets the more his voters will get behind him not less - in part because at that point the choice is backing the Dems/impeachment, or sticking with Trump even as he does this stuff.

    And I think the polarisation is so strong they would not do the former, it would be psychologicaly too hard to.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,392

    OT - most much to add on this insanity.

    On nightclub fires -

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czejykzg77po


    According to Galea's decades of research, there have been 38 similar fires claiming about 1,200 lives since the year 2000. Fifteen involved some form of pyrotechnics and about 13 involved acoustic foam or decorative materials.

    Given these precedents, some may wonder why we do not appear to be learning the lessons.


    1) if you are in a bar and fire starts, leave immediately
    2) Places with a stripped out overhead - bare concrete ceiling with all pipes and cables exposed - are much safer
    3) indoor fireworks are for the stupid.

    Deep Purple had a song about that last one (fortunately no loss of lives in that case).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,579

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Aren't they owned by an Australian?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,763
    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,755
    REIGN OF TERROR Signs Putin is eyeing up tiny Nato nation for 2026 invasion in final bid to cement legacy after snubbing Trump peace bid
    Experts told The Sun Vladimir Putin sees 2026 as his moment, fearing he'll pause, regroup and strike again
    ...
    One location keeps surfacing: Narva, a Russian-speaking Estonian border city sitting directly on Nato’s frontline.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37944748/putin-carnage-tyrants-final-legacy/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495
    edited 10:59AM

    REIGN OF TERROR Signs Putin is eyeing up tiny Nato nation for 2026 invasion in final bid to cement legacy after snubbing Trump peace bid
    Experts told The Sun Vladimir Putin sees 2026 as his moment, fearing he'll pause, regroup and strike again
    ...
    One location keeps surfacing: Narva, a Russian-speaking Estonian border city sitting directly on Nato’s frontline.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37944748/putin-carnage-tyrants-final-legacy/

    REIGN OF TERROR Signs Putin is eyeing up tiny Nato nation for 2026 invasion in final bid to cement legacy after snubbing Trump peace bid
    Experts told The Sun Vladimir Putin sees 2026 as his moment, fearing he'll pause, regroup and strike again
    ...
    One location keeps surfacing: Narva, a Russian-speaking Estonian border city sitting directly on Nato’s frontline.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37944748/putin-carnage-tyrants-final-legacy/

    (probably) Trump - give me Greenland and I promise I'll tell Vladimir to back off.

    Might be a nonsense report, but a useful one for the USA to tell Europe it won't help them in a pinch if they don't back down.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,479
    Instead of a tub of lard couldn't BBC set up an otherwise empty chair with a pack of Rothmans and a pint of Spitfire this morning?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,763

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Are Wolves and Pizza Express really critical UK assets 😅

    As long as we run a trade deficit we have to sell something.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,324
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?

    You’re almost there, in maximalist nationalist irredentism.

    The final touch is the Ukraine/Republic of China border.
    Republic of Ireland looking shifty recently. Perhaps we should invade.
    And very wealthy according to GDP, time for a raid.
    At least demand reparations for aid sent to Ireland during the Famine.

    ‘There’s your 7 Euros, enjoy.’

  • isamisam Posts: 43,380
    edited 10:58AM
    Only one other person in history has accepted a Nobel prize as a gesture of thanks

    https://x.com/Samantharhill/status/2012598164939854100?s=20
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,755

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Aren't they owned by an Australian?

    Fake news. Rupert Murdoch, stalwart defender of British democracy who would never try to influence the democratic process, is now American.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,334
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    We don’t have enough jails to incarcerate all the Reform traitors. Firing squad it will have to be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,404
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @allenanalysis

    🚨 BREAKING: Republicans are now openly warning Trump that if he even tries to invade Greenland, it will END his presidency.

    And this isn’t coming from “RINOs.”

    Murkowski. McConnell. Bacon. Even Louisiana’s John Kennedy.

    When your own party is drawing a red line, you’ve gone past “America First” into “imperial meltdown.”

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/2012681872598253603?s=20

    That is the hope.
    A very large majority of Americans oppose this idiocy. The same isn't true, though, of the Republican Party itself.

    This year will determine whether both US democracy and the western alliance have any future.
    It is that stark.
    When things get (slightly) quieter the GOP will forget all this in a week. I know I have a pessimistic view of the situation there, and HYUFD will point to the polling on Greenland is not good even among the GOP, but I'm convinced that's already changing, and the more aggressive Trump gets the more his voters will get behind him not less - in part because at that point the choice is backing the Dems/impeachment, or sticking with Trump even as he does this stuff.

    And I think the polarisation is so strong they would not do the former, it would be psychologicaly too hard to.
    You may be right.
    I hope you are not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,097
    edited 11:01AM
    isam said:

    Only one other person in history has accepted a Nobel prize as a gesture of thanks

    https://x.com/Samantharhill/status/2012598164939854100?s=20

    So a man who famously had No Balls was also possessed of no bell?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,334
    Foxy said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Are Wolves and Pizza Express really critical UK assets 😅

    As long as we run a trade deficit we have to sell something.
    If Greene King and Northumbrian Water have the same owner, it explains their beer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,495

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    We don’t have enough jails to incarcerate all the Reform traitors. Firing squad it will have to be.
    Careful, that's the most popular political party in the UK remember.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,952
    edited 11:02AM
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @spignal.bsky.social‬

    2024: can Europe defend itself ALONGSIDE America?

    2025: can Europe defend itself WITHOUT America?

    2026: can Europe defend itself AGAINST America?

    Yes

    Partly

    Not particularly, but it wouldn't be worth it for the latter.
    I think you've answered the wrong question. Can Europe defend ITSELF against the US - absolutely, except we haven't needed that thought yet - it's likely beyond what the US, even this US, could try.

    Can Europe defend some of its outlying territories against the US - much more difficult. Greenland if the US truly wants it and to hell with the consequences, it will have it, but consequences there will be. I hope the UK has a plan for if the US comes for the Caymans or BVI or similar, but again that probably just involves securing the money for Mr Little Dodgy Vs Mr Big Dodgy.

    Iceland, let's talk about Iceland. Is it defensible by Europe - I don't know. I'm much less inclined to shrug though - what can we do for Iceland?

    And how big is Europe? Can it provide a home, asylum, for what it is worth in its eternal imperfection, to what is left of the "International Rules Based Order". What is clear to me is that ultimately, the European project - not specifically the EU or any specific institution, but the wider architecture of European post-war collaboration is incomplete until the whole of the European plain falls under its scope. If we are talking a sphere of influence in which these things can be kept alive, Moscow (and as much hinterland as can be kept intact) is Europe and must, over the decades, become Europe else the thing is dangerously incomplete. It cannot be separate - Moscow is OUR sphere of influence. That may seem very far away, but it informs that our lines against current Russia must be maintained and the east of Ukraine must remain defended, however we are able.

    Ultimately, this is more important to Europe than the UK is, for as long as the UK remains only semi-detached.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,324
    isam said:

    Only one other person in history has accepted a Nobel prize as a gesture of thanks

    https://x.com/Samantharhill/status/2012598164939854100?s=20

    Tbf that was from a fellow fascist.
    What that says about Machado..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,097

    Instead of a tub of lard couldn't BBC set up an otherwise empty chair with a pack of Rothmans and a pint of Spitfire this morning?

    A toad would be better.

    Preferably a poisonous one.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    We don’t have enough jails to incarcerate all the Reform traitors. Firing squad it will have to be.
    Careful, that's the most popular political party in the UK remember.
    For now.

    The next election says otherwise...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274
    Phil said:

    The stock markets on Tuesday are going to be a shitshow. (US markets are closed Monday this week I believe.)

    Yes, the Martin Luther King Day holiday.

    How long before Trump tries to bin that?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,763
    A really interesting chart on consumer confidence here that may well explain the PB reaction.

    BBC News - The one measure that can tell us a lot about the state of the UK economy - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c150leql9pgo?app-referrer=deep-link
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,324

    Phil said:

    The stock markets on Tuesday are going to be a shitshow. (US markets are closed Monday this week I believe.)

    Yes, the Martin Luther King Day holiday.

    How long before Trump tries to bin that?
    Keep the holiday, renamed James Earl Ray Day
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,350

    Foxy said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Are Wolves and Pizza Express really critical UK assets 😅

    As long as we run a trade deficit we have to sell something.
    If Greene King and Northumbrian Water have the same owner, it explains their beer.
    Essex and Suffolk Water is part of Northumbrian!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,324
    Foxy said:

    A really interesting chart on consumer confidence here that may well explain the PB reaction.

    BBC News - The one measure that can tell us a lot about the state of the UK economy - BBC News
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c150leql9pgo?app-referrer=deep-link

    You’ve got to admire the resilience of young folk: high rents, buying a home unlikely to impossible, their degrees worthless, climate fcked, still the whippersnappers are positive.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,345

    OT - most much to add on this insanity.

    On nightclub fires -

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czejykzg77po


    According to Galea's decades of research, there have been 38 similar fires claiming about 1,200 lives since the year 2000. Fifteen involved some form of pyrotechnics and about 13 involved acoustic foam or decorative materials.

    Given these precedents, some may wonder why we do not appear to be learning the lessons.


    1) if you are in a bar and fire starts, leave immediately
    2) Places with a stripped out overhead - bare concrete ceiling with all pipes and cables exposed - are much safer
    3) indoor fireworks are for the stupid.

    The videos of that fire at new years were utterly horrific. People filming the fire with phones as if it were no big deal, except that they would have known they were in a basement with a single narrow staircase as the only exit.

    It’s bad enough already to have such a small and inaccessible room set up as an entertainment venue, even before the pyrotechnics and foam ceiling are added to the mix.

    I really hope anyone with teenagers has shown them those videos and made sure they understand to evacuate immediately. Most of the kids in the videos never got out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,097

    Foxy said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Are Wolves and Pizza Express really critical UK assets 😅

    As long as we run a trade deficit we have to sell something.
    If Greene King and Northumbrian Water have the same owner, it explains their beer.
    Essex and Suffolk Water is part of Northumbrian!
    Those bloody Vikings get everywhere.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,747
    edited 11:24AM

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    A couple of notes on this.

    1 - Media. Has the Sun got a new commitment to reader comments? I haven't seen them very often on a purported 'news' story.
    2 - Apart from that, this is just partisan whackery from the Super Soaraway Sun, blaming the current batch of politicians ("even Labour MPs") for a Govt policy of selling off anything to whoever wants it for short term interests which has been running since 1980 or so.
    3 - The main player in any populist paper is always to find a "them" to point at. At least in this case because teenage tits are no loinger quite so much of a pull in a newspaper.
    4 - I'd say they are competing with the Mail and the Telegraph for the shed-dwelling demographic. Sheds have lots of planks.

    More seriously:

    5 - It's a tough one to decide which is the greater danger at present, the USA or China. In the short term I'd say the USA, in the longer term China, as the USA may be collapsing or becoming irrelevant at some point. At the moment the USA has more power, and is more integrated with us, and is less predictable.
    6 - The way out is amongst other things a greater emphasis on national interest, without the lunatic delusions currently embedded in parts of the UK Right.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,838
    edited 11:24AM
    Foxy said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Are Wolves and Pizza Express really critical UK assets 😅

    As long as we run a trade deficit we have to sell something.
    I can assure you that Wolves are a critical asset to Wolverhampton if not the UK even though we seem destined to join your lot in the Championship next season. Clearly our demise is down to the Chinese owners testing out their skills in assymetric warfare prior to a UK wide roll out of the same withdrawal of investment that we've seen here . Anyway, just about everyone here is already longing for the day when the Chinese sell up. We even resorted to displaying Taiwanese flags in the ground to make the point until the Chinese banned them. Fosun Out!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,763
    MattW said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    A couple of notes on this.

    1 - Media. Has the Sun got a new commitment to reader comments? I haven't seen them very often on a purported 'news' story.
    2 - Apart from that, this is just partisan whackery from the Super Soaraway Sun, blaming the current batch of politicians ("even Labour MPs") for a Govt policy of selling off anything to whoever wants it for short term interests which has been running since 1980 or so.
    3 - The main player in any populist paper is always to find a "them" to point at. At least in this case because teenage tits are no loinger quite so much of a pull in a newspaper.
    4 - I'd say they are competing with the Mail and the Telegraph for the shed-dwelling demographic. Sheds have lots of planks.

    More seriously:

    5 - It's a tough one to decide which is the greater danger at present, the USA or China. In the short term I'd say the USA, in the longer term China, as the USA may be collapsing or becoming irrelevant at some point. At the moment the USA has more power, and is more integrated with us, and is less predictable.
    6 - The way out is amongst other things a greater emphasis on national interest, without the lunatic delusions currently embedded in parts of the UK Right.
    Nah, China is no threat to us.

    To Taiwan certainly, and perhaps some other neighbours, but not to the UK.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,994
    Sandpit said:

    OT - most much to add on this insanity.

    On nightclub fires -

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czejykzg77po


    According to Galea's decades of research, there have been 38 similar fires claiming about 1,200 lives since the year 2000. Fifteen involved some form of pyrotechnics and about 13 involved acoustic foam or decorative materials.

    Given these precedents, some may wonder why we do not appear to be learning the lessons.


    1) if you are in a bar and fire starts, leave immediately
    2) Places with a stripped out overhead - bare concrete ceiling with all pipes and cables exposed - are much safer
    3) indoor fireworks are for the stupid.

    The videos of that fire at new years were utterly horrific. People filming the fire with phones as if it were no big deal, except that they would have known they were in a basement with a single narrow staircase as the only exit.

    It’s bad enough already to have such a small and inaccessible room set up as an entertainment venue, even before the pyrotechnics and foam ceiling are added to the mix.

    I really hope anyone with teenagers has shown them those videos and made sure they understand to evacuate immediately. Most of the kids in the videos never got out.
    On Saturday, a friend had a 50th birthday. They’d booked a table at a nightclub as the follow on to the pub.

    The staff bought out a bottle of champagne with several sparklers in it. Fortunately the ceiling was bare concrete. Because the sparks were bouncing off it…
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,214

    Foxy said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    Are Wolves and Pizza Express really critical UK assets 😅

    As long as we run a trade deficit we have to sell something.
    If Greene King and Northumbrian Water have the same owner, it explains their beer.
    Essex and Suffolk Water is part of Northumbrian!
    Have you been taking geography lessons from HY?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,718
    Iran report says 16,500 dead in ‘genocide under digital darkness’

    Witnesses tell of the brutality inflicted on those taking part in anti-regime protests


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/iran-young-protesters-news-nsdztp5t2?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1768691896

    Trump promised a harsh U.S. response should Iran kill protestors, directly encouraged protestors to "take over your institutions" whilst promising U.S. help was "on its way" and then did nothing as the Iranian regime massacred tens of thousands of its own people.

    https://x.com/JimmySecUK/status/2012841858435522797
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,337
    carnforth said:

    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?

    You’re almost there, in maximalist nationalist irredentism.

    The final touch is the Ukraine/Republic of China border.
    Republic of Ireland looking shifty recently. Perhaps we should invade.
    How about invading the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and bringing the companies domiciled there into the UK tax and legal system?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,176

    carnforth said:

    Maybe Trump should invade Taiwan too, to stop China getting their hands on it?

    You’re almost there, in maximalist nationalist irredentism.

    The final touch is the Ukraine/Republic of China border.
    Republic of Ireland looking shifty recently. Perhaps we should invade.
    How about invading the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, and bringing the companies domiciled there into the UK tax and legal system?
    I reckon I could take Brecqhou. That castle is just for show.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,763

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    You should see what the UAE is buying up. Brands. They like brands. Big famous names.

    Abu Dhabi alone has been doing deals at the rate of $5 billion A DAY...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,579

    The Nobel Prize
    @NobelPrize

    Statement from the Nobel Foundation

    One of the core missions of the Nobel Foundation is to safeguard the dignity of the Nobel Prizes and their administration. The Foundation upholds Alfred Nobel’s will and its stipulations. It states that the prizes shall be awarded to those who "have conferred the greatest benefit to humankind," and it specifies who has the right to award each respective prize. A prize can therefore not, even symbolically, be passed on or further distributed.

    https://x.com/NobelPrize/status/2012826296875667648
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,741

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    You should see what the UAE is buying up. Brands. They like brands. Big famous names.

    Abu Dhabi alone has been doing deals at the rate of $5 billion A DAY...
    Pretty catastrophic.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,656
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    I think there’s a lot of overlap between people saying “he looks ill/tired” and those certain he isn’t really ill this morning. It was similar with Boris; loads of comments about how unhealthy he looked, until he was in hospital, then it was all staged or overdone!

    Convenient for Farage to miss the interview this morning though

    He definitely looks rougher recently than a year or so ago. In the jungle he looked pretty good, now he seems to be dressing like an old man as well as looking a bit grim. I am sure he didn’t/doesn’t really want Jenrick on board, his welcome message was very half hearted

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2012519021363486926?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    I don't rule out he is actually ill of course. I often reflect how infrequently it seems top politicians are 'off' ill, as they probably have to push through it.

    Though there's also the prolific commenter problem for Farage - he's very active and vocal, and even if he was really ill he can put out videos and the like unless it's very serious, so whenever he chooses to do the bare minimum instead it is very obvious and raises the question of why not talk about x etc.

    Not a uniquely Faragian problem, that, but a moderate level of online engagement for a politician makes strategic silences less apparent.
    To be fair to the bloke - I've had a good bout of this years winter cold/flu thing. So far it's knocked me out for a week, I've had no voice for most of it, I've barely slept because of coughing, and I'm currently on antibiotics to try to shift it. I'm normally the type of deals with the sort of a thing with a lemsip and then pressing on as normal, but not this time.

    If he's had a dose of that, and it's hardly impossible (half my acquaintances seem to have had the pleasure), I can understand exactly why he's not currently all over the media!

    (and, if you've lost your voice, putting out videos isn't going to work either!).
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,008

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    They were running Birmingham City for a while too, suffice to say into the ground.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,008
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,755
    MattW said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    A couple of notes on this.

    1 - Media. Has the Sun got a new commitment to reader comments? I haven't seen them very often on a purported 'news' story.
    2 - Apart from that, this is just partisan whackery from the Super Soaraway Sun, blaming the current batch of politicians ("even Labour MPs") for a Govt policy of selling off anything to whoever wants it for short term interests which has been running since 1980 or so.
    3 - The main player in any populist paper is always to find a "them" to point at. At least in this case because teenage tits are no loinger quite so much of a pull in a newspaper.
    4 - I'd say they are competing with the Mail and the Telegraph for the shed-dwelling demographic. Sheds have lots of planks.

    More seriously:

    5 - It's a tough one to decide which is the greater danger at present, the USA or China. In the short term I'd say the USA, in the longer term China, as the USA may be collapsing or becoming irrelevant at some point. At the moment the USA has more power, and is more integrated with us, and is less predictable.
    6 - The way out is amongst other things a greater emphasis on national interest, without the lunatic delusions currently embedded in parts of the UK Right.
    Both China and America can legally (their laws, not ours) request what would normally be regarded as confidential or secret information that is held by, hosted on or routed through their companies, and we would never know. America is at least nominally on our side most of the time.
  • Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    You think they would realise they are doing it ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,741
    edited 12:03PM
    As I say frequently to an uncomfortable silence, America don't owe it to Britain to elect someone we like. If we'd wanted to demonstrate some independence from the USA in this sort of situation, the time to look after that was over the last 7 decades when we gave ever more power to the US, allowed the US to gobble up key British companies, made our armed services and intelligence systems indivisible from theirs, and adopted an unecessarily servile approach compared to countries of similar size.

    Truss gave an anecdote in her show of the Foreign Office changing her speech without asking her. When she demanded to know why, they told her it was because they'd checked it with the State Department. Why would the US State Department get a veto over the words of the British Foreign Secretary. That is toxic and totally against democracy.

    Sadly, we're so demoralised (certainly PBers seem to be) that instead of being determined to do better, and to gradually reclaim our sovereignty, we think the best thing to do in this situation is to jump straight into bed with the EU, thus giving up even MORE independence to someone ELSE. As if Europe would never choose a leader we don't like. I mean get a grip PB for the love of God.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,274


    The Nobel Prize
    @NobelPrize

    Statement from the Nobel Foundation

    One of the core missions of the Nobel Foundation is to safeguard the dignity of the Nobel Prizes and their administration. The Foundation upholds Alfred Nobel’s will and its stipulations. It states that the prizes shall be awarded to those who "have conferred the greatest benefit to humankind," and it specifies who has the right to award each respective prize. A prize can therefore not, even symbolically, be passed on or further distributed.

    https://x.com/NobelPrize/status/2012826296875667648

    Can they cancel the award?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,741
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    A couple of notes on this.

    1 - Media. Has the Sun got a new commitment to reader comments? I haven't seen them very often on a purported 'news' story.
    2 - Apart from that, this is just partisan whackery from the Super Soaraway Sun, blaming the current batch of politicians ("even Labour MPs") for a Govt policy of selling off anything to whoever wants it for short term interests which has been running since 1980 or so.
    3 - The main player in any populist paper is always to find a "them" to point at. At least in this case because teenage tits are no loinger quite so much of a pull in a newspaper.
    4 - I'd say they are competing with the Mail and the Telegraph for the shed-dwelling demographic. Sheds have lots of planks.

    More seriously:

    5 - It's a tough one to decide which is the greater danger at present, the USA or China. In the short term I'd say the USA, in the longer term China, as the USA may be collapsing or becoming irrelevant at some point. At the moment the USA has more power, and is more integrated with us, and is less predictable.
    6 - The way out is amongst other things a greater emphasis on national interest, without the lunatic delusions currently embedded in parts of the UK Right.
    Nah, China is no threat to us.

    To Taiwan certainly, and perhaps some other neighbours, but not to the UK.

    What is this mess of a post?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,167
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    I wouldn't be surprised. Take a quick look at facebook comments on any news article - it's febrile, doomsday vibes over there. And it has astonishing reach - over 60% of over 55s visit facebook every day, and spend about an hour on it on average.

    It probably explains why there are such divergent views on the economy among age groups.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,097

    Iran report says 16,500 dead in ‘genocide under digital darkness’

    Witnesses tell of the brutality inflicted on those taking part in anti-regime protests


    https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/iran-young-protesters-news-nsdztp5t2?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1768691896

    Trump promised a harsh U.S. response should Iran kill protestors, directly encouraged protestors to "take over your institutions" whilst promising U.S. help was "on its way" and then did nothing as the Iranian regime massacred tens of thousands of its own people.

    https://x.com/JimmySecUK/status/2012841858435522797

    Neville Chamberlain with worse hair, less dress sense and no sense of compassion for ordinary people.

    About equally good at business, mind.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,763
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Some of them are just reading them, but yes that looks about the right ballpark.

    We see a fair number even here.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,718
    I might base a thread header on this.

    Bank of England must plan for financial crisis sparked by aliens

    A former analyst at the central bank has urged governor Andrew Bailey to put contingencies in place to prevent collapse if alien life is confirmed


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/bank-of-england-must-prepare-for-ufo-announcement-f3mh8l9vh
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,167
    edited 12:14PM
    theProle said:

    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    I think there’s a lot of overlap between people saying “he looks ill/tired” and those certain he isn’t really ill this morning. It was similar with Boris; loads of comments about how unhealthy he looked, until he was in hospital, then it was all staged or overdone!

    Convenient for Farage to miss the interview this morning though

    He definitely looks rougher recently than a year or so ago. In the jungle he looked pretty good, now he seems to be dressing like an old man as well as looking a bit grim. I am sure he didn’t/doesn’t really want Jenrick on board, his welcome message was very half hearted

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2012519021363486926?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
    I don't rule out he is actually ill of course. I often reflect how infrequently it seems top politicians are 'off' ill, as they probably have to push through it.

    Though there's also the prolific commenter problem for Farage - he's very active and vocal, and even if he was really ill he can put out videos and the like unless it's very serious, so whenever he chooses to do the bare minimum instead it is very obvious and raises the question of why not talk about x etc.

    Not a uniquely Faragian problem, that, but a moderate level of online engagement for a politician makes strategic silences less apparent.
    To be fair to the bloke - I've had a good bout of this years winter cold/flu thing. So far it's knocked me out for a week, I've had no voice for most of it, I've barely slept because of coughing, and I'm currently on antibiotics to try to shift it. I'm normally the type of deals with the sort of a thing with a lemsip and then pressing on as normal, but not this time.

    If he's had a dose of that, and it's hardly impossible (half my acquaintances seem to have had the pleasure), I can understand exactly why he's not currently all over the media!

    (and, if you've lost your voice, putting out videos isn't going to work either!).
    I've picked up something horrible too - just walking to the shop is tough and I can't sleep from the coughing like you. Another 7 days and I will reluntantly reach for the antibiotics. It's at times like this I realise how closely linked my mental health is to exercise - I'm desperate to get the dopamine hit from a run/climb/cycle.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,755
    edited 12:14PM
    Sandpit said:

    OT - most much to add on this insanity.

    On nightclub fires -

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czejykzg77po


    According to Galea's decades of research, there have been 38 similar fires claiming about 1,200 lives since the year 2000. Fifteen involved some form of pyrotechnics and about 13 involved acoustic foam or decorative materials.

    Given these precedents, some may wonder why we do not appear to be learning the lessons.


    1) if you are in a bar and fire starts, leave immediately
    2) Places with a stripped out overhead - bare concrete ceiling with all pipes and cables exposed - are much safer
    3) indoor fireworks are for the stupid.

    The videos of that fire at new years were utterly horrific. People filming the fire with phones as if it were no big deal, except that they would have known they were in a basement with a single narrow staircase as the only exit.

    It’s bad enough already to have such a small and inaccessible room set up as an entertainment venue, even before the pyrotechnics and foam ceiling are added to the mix.

    I really hope anyone with teenagers has shown them those videos and made sure they understand to evacuate immediately. Most of the kids in the videos never got out.
    Similar behaviour was seen at the King's Cross fire in 1987 which killed 31 people – passengers evacuating the station stopped at the phone booths (ask your gran) to call home. Perhaps we have evolved to control fire, not fear it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,345

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    You should see what the UAE is buying up. Brands. They like brands. Big famous names.

    Abu Dhabi alone has been doing deals at the rate of $5 billion A DAY...
    ADIA investment fund alone has around $1trn under management at the moment.

    There’s also plenty in of cash in Dubai, Riyadh, Doha, all finding a home in the West.

    China is definitely the big future threat, because they’re building up monopolies for commodity as well as technological products. As we all should have realised during the pandemic. Canada are out of their minds to drop tariffs on Chinese cars, they’ll be everywhere by next year, although ironically the biggest seller of them will probably be an American company, Tesla.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,718
    edited 12:20PM
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently Farage is under the weather and couldn’t make LK .

    Yes right ! Obviously he didn’t want answer uncomfortable questions about his relationship with Trump .

    It is his usual 'duck and cover' approach when Trump is being particularly egregious. Not that Trump is massively popular with Reform voters, but he is more popular than with other voters, and going silent (or sticking to careful written statements) about being pro-Trump in such moments usually allows things to blow over.

    He won't be able to get away with ducking things like that on this or other issues forever, when he is in with a shot of being PM.

    If he's lucky though it won't hurt him until after he's already in office. It took a long time for Corbyn's unchanging views on foreign affairs to have any impact at all.
    One party stands out in this table. It seems a fair number of Reform voters are Trump bootlickers:


    It is really interesting that Reform is so out of line on this. 39% "strongly oppose". If the bulk of Reform's support is from former Tories, then they must have had their minds melted in the journey across.
    I think about half of the Reform vote is from weathy older Shire voters not unlike the Tories, but the other half is from those swapping various MAGA conspiracy theories on Social Media.

    All parties are coalitions, but this doesn't seem a natural fit in the long term. Farage knows this and its one reason that he won't criticize Trump.
    You seriously think about 14.5% of the country are swapping MAGA conspiracy stories online 🙄
    Last night one of my Tweets about Greenland went viral, I'd say about 40% of the replies are MAGA bullshit by Brits.

    https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/2012566644493627792

    I get replies like these as well.

    Go live in Pakistan then bro

    https://x.com/Frank6awa/status/2012661929332920536

    Get fucked. I'd rather not support the Fouth Reich, you fucking Nazi

    https://x.com/HashMan10600431/status/2012629647645671488

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.

    Any brit who defends and supports immigrants is a traitor.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,303

    MattW said:

    CHINA'S £100BN TAKEAWAY How ‘hostile’ China has bought £100bn in critical UK assets including famous landmarks in ‘major threat to Britain’

    • Central London’s Walkie Talkie building – £1.3billion
    • The Leadenhall Building, also known as the Cheesegrater – £1.5billion
    • The Plough pub, where David Cameron and Chinese President Xi Jinping famously drank a pint of beer – undisclosed sum
    • Premier League side Wolverhampton Wanderers – £45million
    • Logistics company Logicor, whose 170 distribution centres are at the heart of the UK’s supply chain – £10.6billion
    • Harvey Nichols, bought by Hong Kong–based Dickson Concepts in 1991 – £53.6million
    • MG Rover – £67million
    • Pizza Express – £900million
    • The £45billion Hinkley Point C Nuclear Plant – China General Nuclear Power owns a 33.5 per cent stake.
    • UK Power Networks – owned by Chinese business mogul Li Ka Shing and valued at around £5.5billion
    • Greene King, owned by Li Ka Shing – £4.6 billion
    • Three UK, owned by Li Ka Shing
    • Northumbrian Water, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £2.41 billion
    • Superdrug, Savers Health & Beauty and parent firm Kruidvat – owned by Li Ka–Shing – £829million
    • Neptune Energy – CIC has a 49 per cent stake
    • Heathrow Airport – CIC has a ten per cent stake
    • Chiswick Business Park, London – owned by CIC – £800million
    • British Steel (owned by Jingye).
    • The Perfume Shop, owned by Li Ka–Shing – £221.9 million
    • Clarks Shoes, Viva Capital has a 51 per cent stake – £51million
    • Cineworld –Liu Zaiwang has a 3.48 per cent stake, worth around £43million
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/37941379/china-bought-uk-assets-threat-britain/

    Selling England by the pound. Britain's newspaper of record worries about Chinese purchases of whatever is not already owned by Americans and Europeans.
    A couple of notes on this.

    1 - Media. Has the Sun got a new commitment to reader comments? I haven't seen them very often on a purported 'news' story.
    2 - Apart from that, this is just partisan whackery from the Super Soaraway Sun, blaming the current batch of politicians ("even Labour MPs") for a Govt policy of selling off anything to whoever wants it for short term interests which has been running since 1980 or so.
    3 - The main player in any populist paper is always to find a "them" to point at. At least in this case because teenage tits are no loinger quite so much of a pull in a newspaper.
    4 - I'd say they are competing with the Mail and the Telegraph for the shed-dwelling demographic. Sheds have lots of planks.

    More seriously:

    5 - It's a tough one to decide which is the greater danger at present, the USA or China. In the short term I'd say the USA, in the longer term China, as the USA may be collapsing or becoming irrelevant at some point. At the moment the USA has more power, and is more integrated with us, and is less predictable.
    6 - The way out is amongst other things a greater emphasis on national interest, without the lunatic delusions currently embedded in parts of the UK Right.
    Both China and America can legally (their laws, not ours) request what would normally be regarded as confidential or secret information that is held by, hosted on or routed through their companies, and we would never know. America is at least nominally on our side most of the time.
    was at least nominally on our side - with Trump and Musk I'm not so sure...
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