If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.
Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
It’s #1.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
All PB Centrist Dads live within easy walking (or cycling!) distance of a Gails. It is known.
I had never heard of Gails until last week when people were bringing them up in context of LD areas.
If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.
Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
It’s #1.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
All PB Centrist Dads live within easy walking (or cycling!) distance of a Gails. It is known.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
A carrot and stick approach can work, but in this case I'd suggest the use of military threats is undermining the negotiations from Rubio et al rather than helping. It will be making it harder for the Danes and Greenlanders to accept a 'generous' offer when they know people will see it has been done with a gun to their heads.
Trump tonight only mentioned wanting to buy Greenland, nothing about military action
The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.
Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.
You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
I'm not a supporter of Reform.
This is certainly something they could badly badly miscalculate.
The British hate bullies.
I think Max Tempers is absolutely right about this.
“MAGA gangsterism is repulsive. Right-wing parties will be caught between fence-sitting and outright defence, both to their disadvantage. The British Labour Party is probably uniquely the worst placed to capitalise on it though.“
The Cyprus presidency has convened an extraordinary meeting of EU Ambassadors (Coreper) for Sunday afternoon to discuss Trump’s 10% tariff announcement.
If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.
Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
It’s #1.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
I misread who posted it. I thought it was Eagles.
That said, it being #1 and everyone talking and caring about it are two massively different things.
When you're there, the US is massively insular and can feel more like 50 different countries.
Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."
They're acting like Greenland was about to fall to China tomorrow. Even if you accept the argument that for complete assurance the USA needs to own it, not just the right to pretty much do what they want there, it isn't about to fall to China or anyone else if the US puts 10,000 troops and another 10 military bases or whatever - so it is only at risk of falling into the hands of enemies if they want it to.
'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'
'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.
After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.
Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.
Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.
I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.
hmmm could be I guess. But the person Reform voters seem to want to join Reform most is JRM. Someone who shares their values and articulates them well. I am guessing he is not top of your list of "good people" though.
JRM is a Tory to his bones so won't go, he is probably now the only senior politician who could unite the Tories and Reform if they both lose the next general election and Labour return to power, perhaps with the LDs in a hung parliament.
We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.
The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).
I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).
It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
I don't think it's actually possible to build a modern missile without at least some components having US involvement. For example, missiles almost always use fairly powerful FPGA chips - there are only six companies making such chips, five are American and one is Chinese.
Even throwing piles of money at them, a European supplier would take 5-10 years to be in the position to provide alternatives.
We're definitely in a situation best described as, "I wouldn't start from there."
Christ knows what the order of priority is for sorting things out.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.
Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.
You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
Farage usually goes quiet on his Trumpism when Trump does something particularly offensive or gross which will play badly in the UK. He won't be able to get away with that every time, but I think he probably can on Greenland, which is dramatic but hardly the sort of area most people would typically think about.
The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.
Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.
You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
TBH whatever Farage said it wouldn’t be enough for some people.
He could at least try. A couple of sentences supporting the principle of NATO, opposing tariffs on the basis of old fashioned buccaneering free trade Brexit Britain open to the world, supporting the rights of people to self determination in general and the rights of Denmark and Greenland in particular, and opposing blackmail and threats would be a simple start.
He can't and won't because he doesn't believe in it, and his friends would be too upset if he backed this country and western democracy against its old (Russia) and new (USA) enemies.
I am happy to be proved wrong about this. Let's wait and see.
But I think he will never win a general election and never be PM.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
A carrot and stick approach can work, but in this case I'd suggest the use of military threats is undermining the negotiations from Rubio et al rather than helping. It will be making it harder for the Danes and Greenlanders to accept a 'generous' offer when they know people will see it has been done with a gun to their heads.
I completely agree. It’s fine when it’s The Sweeney interrogating a blagger in the seventies. But a political discussion with allies, crazy.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.
Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.
You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
Farage usually goes quiet on his Trumpism when Trump does something particularly offensive or gross which will play badly in the UK. He won't be able to get away with that every time, but I think he probably can on Greenland, which is dramatic but hardly the sort of area most people would typically think about.
I must say, I wouldn't agree here. I was taken aback by the absolute rage among the Mail's readers, today.
More people have degrees and those degrees are relatively less useful.
The problem isn't so much with those with degrees being unemployed its with those with college debt being unemployed.
There is another facet. It is not just debt. These are people who have played by the rules. They have worked hard in the way that society directed them, and they've been effectively stabbed in the back – here as well as in the United States.
Another group that has had the same fate, more so in America, is low-level entrepreneurs who might have relied on frictionless foreign trade.
As are the victims of DEI policies, although they will have been replaced by the beneficiaries who previously would have been the victims of in-group prejudice.
Here it is young people faced with near-impossible housing costs.
The common factor is not that people are screwed, it is that people who have played the game are being screwed because the rules have silently changed. Is it any wonder they turn to NOTA parties? We must be thankful they still have faith in democracy.
At base, it is not fair.
Rustbelt factory workers undercut by cheap Chinese imports were also being screwed, hence they voted for Trump's tariffs
'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'
'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.
After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.
Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.
Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.
I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.
hmmm could be I guess. But the person Reform voters seem to want to join Reform most is JRM. Someone who shares their values and articulates them well. I am guessing he is not top of your list of "good people" though.
JRM is a Tory to his bones so won't go, he is probably now the only senior politician who could unite the Tories and Reform if they both lose the next general election and Labour return to power, perhaps with the LDs in a hung parliament.
Jacob needs to win his old seat back first though
Yes I know he will not move, so do they. Probably adds to his charm that he is so loyal.
We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.
The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).
I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).
It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
I don't think it's actually possible to build a modern missile without at least some components having US involvement. For example, missiles almost always use fairly powerful FPGA chips - there are only six companies making such chips, five are American and one is Chinese.
Even throwing piles of money at them, a European supplier would take 5-10 years to be in the position to provide alternatives.
Cologne Chip makes an FPGA (GateMate) - it's not Alterra or Xilinx levels of sophistication, but it does exist.
It's also worth remembering that this stuff cuts both ways: almost all modern semiconductor plants rely on lithography machines from ASML, a Dutch company.
Europe has a semiconductor industry: Infineon being the biggest part of it. It's just it's speciality is power ICs and analog; stuff that is ironically very important as we move towards electric cars.
If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.
Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
It’s #1.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
All PB Centrist Dads live within easy walking (or cycling!) distance of a Gails. It is known.
I had never heard of Gails until last week when people were bringing them up in context of LD areas.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
So they're voluntarily manufacturing a problem which requires them to threaten invasion of a close ally, that's the thinking here?
We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.
The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).
I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).
It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
I don't think it's actually possible to build a modern missile without at least some components having US involvement. For example, missiles almost always use fairly powerful FPGA chips - there are only six companies making such chips, five are American and one is Chinese.
Even throwing piles of money at them, a European supplier would take 5-10 years to be in the position to provide alternatives.
We're definitely in a situation best described as, "I wouldn't start from there."
Christ knows what the order of priority is for sorting things out.
We need an expert group to go through a wide variety of different military hardware, identify all the components Europe can't produce, and then spend lots of money over a decade or so making sure there are domestic sources for those kind of parts.
Of course, what we'll get is not enough money, wooly timescales, and the French trying to twist the whole project to their own benefit.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
So they're voluntarily manufacturing a problem which requires them to threaten invasion of a close ally, that's the thinking here?
We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.
The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).
I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).
It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
I don't think it's actually possible to build a modern missile without at least some components having US involvement. For example, missiles almost always use fairly powerful FPGA chips - there are only six companies making such chips, five are American and one is Chinese.
Even throwing piles of money at them, a European supplier would take 5-10 years to be in the position to provide alternatives.
We're definitely in a situation best described as, "I wouldn't start from there."
Christ knows what the order of priority is for sorting things out.
We need an expert group to go through a wide variety of different military hardware, identify all the components Europe can't produce, and then spend lots of money over a decade or so making sure there are domestic sources for those kind of parts.
Of course, what we'll get is not enough money, wooly timescales, and the French trying to twist the whole project to their own benefit.
Yes, the French are awkward gits. I heard the Germans were struggling with the fighter jet project they're cooperating with the French on because of it (whereas the British/Italian/Japanese project appears to be doing okay).
The Premier of Alberta (allegedly the most Trump-sympathetic province) has called for Canada to levy counter-tariffs against the U.S. in solidarity with the UK and NATO allies.
Even Trump sympathetic staunch right-wingers are drawing the line on this.
You can't support someone trying to bully an ally into surrendering its territory. And, if we do, the world is fucked anyway.
Not all. Farage and Reform are yet to signal their clear opposition to Trump on this and their clear support for Greenland. Farage has issued a half hearted comment; generally Reform has gone silent, no doubt awaiting orders.
Farage usually goes quiet on his Trumpism when Trump does something particularly offensive or gross which will play badly in the UK. He won't be able to get away with that every time, but I think he probably can on Greenland, which is dramatic but hardly the sort of area most people would typically think about.
I must say, I wouldn't agree here. I was taken aback by the absolute rage among the Mail's readers, today.
Which is interesting as the first words of the story are 'Sir Keir Starmer condemned', framing I would suspect was to make readers be more positive about the target.
'EXCLUSIVE: MP Andrew Rosindell has reached an agreement to defect to Reform UK.
The Romford Member of Parliament has come to an arrangement with Reform UK leader Nigel Farage regarding his defection to the party.
Negotiations between the two have been ongoing for several months. Mr. Rosindell was expected to switch parties a few months ago but had to postpone due to an issue concerning his constituency office.
The MP is working to secure ownership of his constituency office, a process he nearly completed several months ago, but the agreement was ultimately not finalised.
The property is currently owned by the Conservative Party and holds significant importance for him. Mr. Farage has agreed to make an exception, allowing Mr. Rosindell to finalise his defection after the May 7 deadline if he has not secured ownership of Margaret Thatcher House by that date.
'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'
'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.
After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.
Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.
Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.
I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.
hmmm could be I guess. But the person Reform voters seem to want to join Reform most is JRM. Someone who shares their values and articulates them well. I am guessing he is not top of your list of "good people" though.
Thanks. two points. JRM would indeed be a coup though he is not an MP. I don't think he has the slightest intention of going anywhere near them. He doesn't belong culturally. (Neither does Kruger. He made a mistake). His 'assimilation' approach vanished as an option over the last few weeks. JRM isn't going to matter a bit for now. But he'll be back under a Tory label. Is he a 'good person'? I think I am in a minority in thinking that he is.
@ManfredWeber The EPP is in favour of the EU–U.S. trade deal, but given Donald Trump’s threats regarding Greenland, approval is not possible at this stage. The 0% tariffs on U.S. products must be put on hold. #EuropeanUnity
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Indeed, 71% of US voters oppose taking Greenland by military force an Ipsos poll found last week, even Republicans were 60% opposed.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
I think the polling did not start out so well, but Trump sways his people to his position, and already members of the House and Senate are backing him up more than they did initially.
I don't think it will be very popular, and there will be a bare handful who remain utterly opposed to what is going on, but I expect the GOP support figures to increase if he takes any more aggressive steps, as they are already starting to justify it as an existential issue for America.
Sen. Jim Banks: "I'm glad Don Bacon is quitting Congress. I'm glad President Trump is showing the type of leadership on the world stage that puts America first, that recognizes that Greenland is strategically very valuable and important and we can't allow it to fall in the hands of our biggest enemies."
We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.
The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
Blue Streak was a joke at the time - time to fuel the missile was longer than the time for Russian missiles to reach the Uk. By a considerable margin. Keeping the missiles fuelled would have been insanely expensive.
Solids are rubbish for space launch, perfect for military weapons.
The Nightfall missile has just 500km of range. But is supposed to be a cheap, rapid development. And would be a very useful learning project to train engineers on medium/large solids.
The RVs we build for Trident are 100kg or so. So a Nightfall carrying a nuke would have a range of 600-700km
'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'
'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.
After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.
Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.
Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.
I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.
hmmm could be I guess. But the person Reform voters seem to want to join Reform most is JRM. Someone who shares their values and articulates them well. I am guessing he is not top of your list of "good people" though.
Thanks. two points. JRM would indeed be a coup though he is not an MP. I don't think he has the slightest intention of going anywhere near them. He doesn't belong culturally. (Neither does Kruger. He made a mistake). His 'assimilation' approach vanished as an option over the last few weeks. JRM isn't going to matter a bit for now. But he'll be back under a Tory label. Is he a 'good person'? I think I am in a minority in thinking that he is.
I think he's a phony who has used his image as a traditionalist to disguise that he is, on some issues, a complete radical (inventing some 'constitutional' positions to suit his short term political interests), but I don't think he is a bad person.
But whether he is or not I'm not sure what he would really gain from joining before there was already going to be some kind of deal or merger. I get the sense his personal red lines would be reached more easily trying to work with Farage.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Nah, in 2021 there were plenty of polls showing MAGA/GOP voters would never vote for Trump in 2024 if he was a felon.
Iratxe García Pérez, leader of the Socialist group:
"Trump’s 25% tariffs on allies supporting Greenland against his imperialist threats are unacceptable.
We must act now: suspend negotiations on the EU-US trade deal and activate the Anti-Coercion Instrument.
The EU will not bow to intimidation."
In fairness that is often what people will say right before they bow to intimidation, but loathe as the EU is to escalate situations what are they supposed to do when one of its members is being told it will be invaded if it doesn't give in to the USA?
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Nah, in 2021 there were plenty of polls showing MAGA/GOP voters would never vote for Trump in 2024 if he was a felon.
Well, sadly it was only on the lightest charge that he even got to trial so maybe that made a difference, but I doubt it - it was very clear they'd have gone with him even if he'd been convicted of all of the various charges since he successfully persuaded them it was all illegitimate.
We should probably reactivate Blue Streak 21stC version and look at our own missile delivery system for both the RN and RAF.
The Americans don't exactly have a history of being reliable in sharing "their" (ours, orginally) nuclear technology anyway.
I'd be amazed if there isn't already some work going on in that area.
We know that work has started on a British version of ATACMS (called Project Nightfall).
I think air force/navy missiles are an area of relative British defence strength, but there are issues in terms of being reliant on the US for some components (e.g. for Storm Shadow).
It was notable that the RFI for Project Nightfall specified that it had to be free of such constraints.
I don't think it's actually possible to build a modern missile without at least some components having US involvement. For example, missiles almost always use fairly powerful FPGA chips - there are only six companies making such chips, five are American and one is Chinese.
Even throwing piles of money at them, a European supplier would take 5-10 years to be in the position to provide alternatives.
A ballistic missile does not require heavy compute capability. Your mobile phone is many orders of magnitude better than the D-17B.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
Are we really supposed to think thst Greenland is under threat of being annexed by Russia or China? It's a straightforward asset grab suggested to Trump by one of his real estate buddies who has investments in Greenland. Same approach witb Gaza hence involvement there of Witkoff and Kuchner. The spirit of Al Capone lives on.
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
So they're voluntarily manufacturing a problem which requires them to threaten invasion of a close ally, that's the thinking here?
No. That’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is - and it’s pretty much the bottom line to all this isn’t it - the “manufacturing of problem” bit is in your head, not at all in theirs. In their minds “the problem” going forward is very serious and very real.
The honest mindset Trump and thinkers around him are introducing to the America’s, is the past being a raft you cannot ride forever - isn’t it? Europe is already an economic and philosophical competitor of the America’s, and so focussing on your own needs now, and specifically prepare for what you need for your future security, and mineral resources and sustainability {and where both actually tie in}, is where you don’t consider economic and philosophical rivals as being ongoing friends, at all, in the medium or long term, even the short term there are these rapids, even to the summit of the waterfall.
They see you, Kle4 the European, as an economic rival and threat, they don’t agree with your philosophy either - they don’t agree with you on “freedom” and, it’s looking like not agreeing with you on liberal democracy as well.
Trump, and the crew around him, in their minds, need to protect the USA and its future Golden Age from you - you personally Kle4. You need to think about it. Your very existence is a threat to them, their future hopes and dreams.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Nah, in 2021 there were plenty of polls showing MAGA/GOP voters would never vote for Trump in 2024 if he was a felon.
He wasn't really a convicted felon was he, he got no jail time and to all intents and purposes the sentence he got was even at the lower end of that given for a misdemeanour.
'Reform is not a rescue charity for every panicky Tory MP Deadline Day for defectors is in May – and if that sounds like an ultimatum, it is'
'Put this date in your political diaries: Thursday May 7 is Deadline Day for parliamentary defectors to Reform UK. Indeed, any elected politician who wants to play a part in our movement and help turn Britain around has until that date to apply to join Reform.
After Deadline Day passes, the door will close for current and former MPs, as well as local councillors.
Firstly- chinny reckon. If Suella Braverman decides to abandon the Conservatives in autumn 2027, Nigel is going to look silly saying no.
Secondly- if this is a message for Conservative MPs, Nigel can email them. Or photocopy a note- I'm sure his latest recruit can show him how. So what is the real message here, and who is it for?
I'm a hard man and I can show I am a hard man? If you wanna be in my gang then you better decide now.
I think it is because of how badly the Zahawi defection went down with Reform members. Rumor is they lost some members over it. Until then I think Farage wanted as many ex Tories as possible, now he knows his voters simply will not wear it.
What I suspect most Reform supporters would love to have, whether this is rational or not, is big name support of people from almost any field who they know in their hearts are worthy of respect and admiration because of who they are, their character, and what they have achieved. Supporters want respect and self-respect. They are woefully lacking in both.
I don't think so to be honest. Reform voters think the country is broken, I don't think they are looking for validation from the people they think broke it. I think they are looking for people who share their values, or can fake them like Jenrick.
I agree with about half of this. But I think they would be ecstatic if Reform could nab a handful of people in public/political life that they could genuinely respect rather than pretend. In their hearts I think they know that people worthy of respect and reputation won't join them, and there are good reasons for this. This, IMHO, causes hurt and conflict in the minds of Reform supporters. They want famous good people to share their values, and they won't because it can't be done.
hmmm could be I guess. But the person Reform voters seem to want to join Reform most is JRM. Someone who shares their values and articulates them well. I am guessing he is not top of your list of "good people" though.
Thanks. two points. JRM would indeed be a coup though he is not an MP. I don't think he has the slightest intention of going anywhere near them. He doesn't belong culturally. (Neither does Kruger. He made a mistake). His 'assimilation' approach vanished as an option over the last few weeks. JRM isn't going to matter a bit for now. But he'll be back under a Tory label. Is he a 'good person'? I think I am in a minority in thinking that he is.
Yes. My point was simply that what Reform voters value might be a bit different from people on here. Which makes me think Farage may make another mistake with his Labour defection next week. One of the old Labour leave crowd might work, but some random guy trying to save his seat or local Councillor will be another Zahawi moment.
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
Starmer's position is impossible - of course - and the only course for the moment it broadly to keep in line - it doesn't have to be exact - with the approach of France and Germany in particular and Canada/EuroNATO in general. We shall be in a n impossible position together. What is not good, unless you absolutely have to is: https://www.johndclare.net/images/wwii1.alone.jpg
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
So they're voluntarily manufacturing a problem which requires them to threaten invasion of a close ally, that's the thinking here?
No. That’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is - and it’s pretty much the bottom line to all this isn’t it - the “manufacturing of problem” bit is in your head, not at all in theirs. In their minds “the problem” going forward is very serious and very real.
The honest mindset Trump and thinkers around him are introducing to the America’s, is the past being a raft you cannot ride forever - isn’t it? Europe is already an economic and philosophical competitor of the America’s, and so focussing on your own needs now, and specifically prepare for what you need for your future security, and mineral resources and sustainability {and where both actually tie in}, is where you don’t consider economic and philosophical rivals as being ongoing friends, at all, long into the short medium or long term, into the rapids, even to the summit of the waterfall.
They see you, Kle4 the European, as an economic rival and threat, they don’t agree with your philosophy either - they don’t agree with you on “freedom” and, it’s looking not agreeing with you on liberal democracy as well.
Trump, and the crew around him, in their minds, need to protect the USA and its future Golden Age from you - you personally Kle4. You need to think about it. Your very existence is a threat to them, their future hopes and dreams.
I don't believe that is their honest mindset - if it were, the GOP response out of the gate would have been a lot more full throated in support. The rampting up of the rhetoric to make it existential, rather than merely critical, which only emerged later, makes it appear a political choice rather than some ideological imperative.
'EXCLUSIVE: MP Andrew Rosindell has reached an agreement to defect to Reform UK.
The Romford Member of Parliament has come to an arrangement with Reform UK leader Nigel Farage regarding his defection to the party.
Negotiations between the two have been ongoing for several months. Mr. Rosindell was expected to switch parties a few months ago but had to postpone due to an issue concerning his constituency office.
The MP is working to secure ownership of his constituency office, a process he nearly completed several months ago, but the agreement was ultimately not finalised.
The property is currently owned by the Conservative Party and holds significant importance for him. Mr. Farage has agreed to make an exception, allowing Mr. Rosindell to finalise his defection after the May 7 deadline if he has not secured ownership of Margaret Thatcher House by that date.
The Mercury Mall shopping centre and car park to the left. And whilst Romford Conservatives are sometimes odd, and many of them are much more loyal to Andrew than he deserves, why on Earth would they sell the building to him? There are plenty of vacant shops and offices in the town centre, if he wants a new one.
(The story was very quickly denied and deleted. The "he would have defected already as long as he got to keep the house" felt fishy from the beginning.)
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Nah, in 2021 there were plenty of polls showing MAGA/GOP voters would never vote for Trump in 2024 if he was a felon.
He wasn't really a convicted felon was he, he got no jail time and to all intents and purposes the sentence he got was even at the lower end of that given for a misdemeanour
Do you consider Officer Jonathan Ross guilty or not guilty of murder?
If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.
Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
It’s #1.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
All PB Centrist Dads live within easy walking (or cycling!) distance of a Gails. It is known.
I had never heard of Gails until last week when people were bringing them up in context of LD areas.
Might be heading your way soon - there is one in Salisbury now, quite near to Reeve (obviously the better choice).
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
Starmer's position is impossible - of course - and the only course for the moment it broadly to keep in line - it doesn't have to be exact - with the approach of France and Germany in particular and Canada/EuroNATO in general. We shall be in a n impossible position together. What is not good, unless you absolutely have to is: https://www.johndclare.net/images/wwii1.alone.jpg
There was another editorial cartoon published at the about same time with the caption “Alone, all 500 million of us” referencing the fact we were still the worlds biggest empire in 1940. Which we’re not now, last time I checked.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
Are we really supposed to think thst Greenland is under threat of being annexed by Russia or China? It's a straightforward asset grab suggested to Trump by one of his real estate buddies who has investments in Greenland. Same approach witb Gaza hence involvement there of Witkoff and Kuchner. The spirit of Al Capone lives on.
Trump's inner argument is: I am not a reliable NATO ally because I am a short sighted egotistical idiot and I don't do alliances. As I am not reliable, Greenland might not be properly defended by NATO if attacked because I am not a good friend to NATO. Therefore I need, by conquest or otherwise, to own it, and if I don't I can't be bothered to look after it when attacked by China/Russia.
EuroNATO/EU is gently trying to say 'Greenland is well defended. Good old NATO and good old USA a member of it.'
If you scan the websites of NYT and WAPO it feels like they are very much less excitable about Trump and his Greenland fetish and the fallout it will cause. I might be missing things but I don’t think we are over-concerned and worry more that the US isn’t concerned enough.
Our US based posters will obviously have a better knowledge of what Americans are hearing on the news and if it’s making waves but I fear the vast majority aren’t switched on to what is happening and the potential consequences.
It's probably 68th down their news lists, and most haven't the foggiest.
It’s #1.
You don't live there.
You don't know.
Seriously ? You're a much longer serving member of this board than I am, but even I know he does live there.
All PB Centrist Dads live within easy walking (or cycling!) distance of a Gails. It is known.
I had never heard of Gails until last week when people were bringing them up in context of LD areas.
Might be heading your way soon - there is one in Salisbury now, quite near to Reeve (obviously the better choice).
I'm more excited by the prospect of Spud Bros, though apparently Subway now offer spuds.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Nah, in 2021 there were plenty of polls showing MAGA/GOP voters would never vote for Trump in 2024 if he was a felon.
He wasn't really a convicted felon was he, he got no jail time and to all intents and purposes the sentence he got was even at the lower end of that given for a misdemeanour
Do you consider Officer Jonathan Ross guilty or not guilty of murder?
If you’re a liberal, the honest answer to that is he is not guilty, and will remain so until proven guilty in a court. That will never happen but you have to be consistent with your principles. I think he should be prosecuted and the evidence I have seen points to guilt is the proper answer.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
It's a measure of how far Trump has dragged the world away from reality that people are discussing this as anything other than the ravings of somebody who is not in his right mind.
It's already progressed rapidly. It came up a year or so ago, bit of a splash but not much else, then he's really ramped up recently and the GOP defence seemed a bit lukewarm, as if they were not sure how serious he was, if it was about negotiation or something, but they're coming out swinging again and the talking points have been agreed.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
You reckon ?
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
Nah, in 2021 there were plenty of polls showing MAGA/GOP voters would never vote for Trump in 2024 if he was a felon.
He wasn't really a convicted felon was he, he got no jail time and to all intents and purposes the sentence he got was even at the lower end of that given for a misdemeanour
Do you consider Officer Jonathan Ross guilty or not guilty of murder?
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
So they're voluntarily manufacturing a problem which requires them to threaten invasion of a close ally, that's the thinking here?
No. That’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is - and it’s pretty much the bottom line to all this isn’t it - the “manufacturing of problem” bit is in your head, not at all in theirs. In their minds “the problem” going forward is very serious and very real.
The honest mindset Trump and thinkers around him are introducing to the America’s, is the past being a raft you cannot ride forever - isn’t it? Europe is already an economic and philosophical competitor of the America’s, and so focussing on your own needs now, and specifically prepare for what you need for your future security, and mineral resources and sustainability {and where both actually tie in}, is where you don’t consider economic and philosophical rivals as being ongoing friends, at all, long into the short medium or long term, into the rapids, even to the summit of the waterfall.
They see you, Kle4 the European, as an economic rival and threat, they don’t agree with your philosophy either - they don’t agree with you on “freedom” and, it’s looking not agreeing with you on liberal democracy as well.
Trump, and the crew around him, in their minds, need to protect the USA and its future Golden Age from you - you personally Kle4. You need to think about it. Your very existence is a threat to them, their future hopes and dreams.
I don't believe that is their honest mindset - if it were, the GOP response out of the gate would have been a lot more full throated in support. The rampting up of the rhetoric to make it existential, rather than merely critical, which only emerged later, makes it appear a political choice rather than some ideological imperative.
How much more telling us and demonstrating that is their honest mindset, do you need?
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
Starmer's position is impossible - of course - and the only course for the moment it broadly to keep in line - it doesn't have to be exact - with the approach of France and Germany in particular and Canada/EuroNATO in general. We shall be in a n impossible position together. What is not good, unless you absolutely have to is: https://www.johndclare.net/images/wwii1.alone.jpg
There was another editorial cartoon published at the about same time with the caption “Alone, all 500 million of us” referencing the fact we were still the worlds biggest empire in 1940. Which we’re not now, last time I checked.
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
The /r/Conservative subreddit, a place that normally defends or ignores EVERYTHING Trump says or does and is very MAGA, is for once overwhelmingly against what Trump is doing regarding Greenland. These people go out to bat for Trump with the Epstein allegations, but even they can see that the Greenland stuff is completely bonkers.
Farage is a traitor . Anyone voting for him should be interned as a threat to the country like what the US did to the Japanese in WW2 .
We also used internment in both world wars. They teach it in GCSE British racism history.
The Mountbatten’s were interned WWI with other Germans - but not my family (fathers side). I guess we must have spoken better English so weren’t thought of as German.
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
Starmer's position is impossible - of course - and the only course for the moment it broadly to keep in line - it doesn't have to be exact - with the approach of France and Germany in particular and Canada/EuroNATO in general. We shall be in a n impossible position together. What is not good, unless you absolutely have to is: https://www.johndclare.net/images/wwii1.alone.jpg
There was another editorial cartoon published at the about same time with the caption “Alone, all 500 million of us” referencing the fact we were still the worlds biggest empire in 1940. Which we’re not now, last time I checked.
Of course, there is a group of (still) basically friendly countries nearby whose population adds up to 500 million or so.
It's going to take Britain fighting (successfully) alongside them until most Britons start to trust them in the way that they do the Canadians and others (and I would have said Americans until recently).
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
The /r/Conservative subreddit, a place that normally defends or ignores EVERYTHING Trump says or does and is very MAGA, is for once overwhelmingly against what Trump is doing regarding Greenland. These people go out to bat for Trump with the Epstein allegations, but even they can see that the Greenland stuff is completely bonkers.
Reddit is cucked. If you want to know what Magaworld really thinks, go to patriots.win.
I have to assume that MAGA thinks they are tough, and because their free speech blocks out anything they disagree with, they haven't realised the utter ridicule being piled on them for Trump accepting the Peace Prize and now threatening to impose tariffs on his own people for NATO members defending NATO members.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
Starmer's position is impossible - of course - and the only course for the moment it broadly to keep in line - it doesn't have to be exact - with the approach of France and Germany in particular and Canada/EuroNATO in general. We shall be in a n impossible position together. What is not good, unless you absolutely have to is: https://www.johndclare.net/images/wwii1.alone.jpg
There was another editorial cartoon published at the about same time with the caption “Alone, all 500 million of us” referencing the fact we were still the worlds biggest empire in 1940. Which we’re not now, last time I checked.
Of course, there is a group of (still) basically friendly countries nearby whose population adds up to 500 million or so.
It's going to take Britain fighting (successfully) alongside them until midday Britons start to trust them in the way that they do the Canadians and others (and I would have said Americans until recently).
I’m more of a 2.25 Briton. I don’t get moving until after lunch
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
Buying Greenland is popular with Republicans as the poll I showed earlier said (but not invading it), US voters overall though are opposed once Democrats and Independents are included.
We managed to own and run India until a century ago but obviously times change and the age of Empire was assumed to be over until Putin and Trump came along
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
You are absolutely right. The PB consensus embarrassing themselves tonight by not understanding the intellectual basis of what Trump is doing.
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
You are absolutely right. The PB consensus embarrassing themselves tonight by not understanding the intellectual basis of what Trump is doing.
There is no intellectual basis. It’s animal instinct.
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
Buying Greenland is popular with Republicans as the poll I showed earlier said (but not invading it), US voters overall though are opposed once Democrats and Independents are included
Realistically speaking any US invasion of Greenland is going to be over as soon as anyone hears that it is happening, and so there's going to be nothing for US voters to oppose.
Once the deed has been done I don't see many Republican voters being in favour of withdrawing with their tail between their legs.
Officers and reconnaissance troops with the Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces) and other European military personnel arrive in Greenland aboard a Boeing 737 with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, as part of a Danish-led “advance force” to coordinate the arrival of additional air, ground, and naval assets expected to deploy soon to the Northern Atlantic.
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
Buying Greenland is popular with Republicans as the poll I showed earlier said (but not invading it), US voters overall though are opposed once Democrats and Independents are included
Realistically speaking any US invasion of Greenland is going to be over as soon as anyone hears that it is happening, and so there's going to be nothing for US voters to oppose.
Once the deed has been done I don't see many Republican voters being in favour of withdrawing with their tail between their legs.
You would also have to occupy it and plenty of Greenlanders would be willing to form an armed resistance, perhaps even with arms supplied by the Danes and then the US bodybags would start.
Democrats and Independents and therefore most Americans would be opposed anyway and there would certainly be enough Republicans in Congress willing to break lines to join them and impeach Trump and maybe even convict
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
I also can see why Trump thinks that and he has good reasons for wanting to secure Greenland. A fear of an expansive Russia and a China happy to throw money around wherever it can.
But the solution is to work with his NATO allies on it not just use threats to take it.
It’s the hot and cold approach.
Threats from Trump, face to face negotiation from Rubio.
Are we really supposed to think thst Greenland is under threat of being annexed by Russia or China? It's a straightforward asset grab suggested to Trump by one of his real estate buddies who has investments in Greenland. Same approach witb Gaza hence involvement there of Witkoff and Kuchner. The spirit of Al Capone lives on.
It’s not what you or I may think that is driving this.
As for Gaza former PM Blair should immediately refuse to be a part of it and cite the threats to Greenland as the reason. I’m sure a man of high principle and and internationalist outlook won’t hesitate to do so.
Now it's really done: the liberals of Renew Europe joins the EPP and the Socialists to delay the ratification of the EU-US trade deal. The three centrist parties have a majority in the chamber to make it happen.
Another way of looking at this is the Vance/Thiel/Andreesen/Musk nexus, who have the documented interest we discussed last year, in Greenland as the possible point for their future "digital.state", or techno-fiefdom. It's a consideration always worth taking on board.
Renew Europe leader Valérie Hayer says Trump's 10% tariff announcement is "unacceptable":
"These announcements follow many other agressive actions towards the EU. Therefore, it is now time to move from reliance to deterrence. Consequently, Renew Europe cannot vote the EU-US Turnberry trade deal."
"Furthermore, the EU should be prepared to deploy targeted and proportionate countermeasures. The activation of the EU Anti-Coercion Instrument should be explicitly considered, as it was designed precisely for situations of economic intimidation of this nature."
Farage is a traitor . Anyone voting for him should be interned as a threat to the country like what the US did to the Japanese in WW2 .
We also used internment in both world wars. They teach it in GCSE British racism history.
The Mountbatten’s were interned WWI with other Germans - but not my family (fathers side). I guess we must have spoken better English so weren’t thought of as German.
Maybe they were worried Moonrabbits might have lunar tics with them?
The weak and evasive Farage response to Trump today sticks out like a sore thumb in contrast with Lab, Con, LD and Greens, and a whole raft of EU/NATO countries. Time alone will tell but it feels like something in Reform is coming apart. Farage needed today to stick with the bullied not the bully and didn't.
Three huge mistakes in about a week: taking Zahawi, taking Jenrick, not backing Greenland and EuroNATO. Farage's demolition is now only a matter of time.
Good evening
Let's hope so
Like @Leon I have been to Greenland and it is a vast country with just 56,000 population
I can understand Trump's judgment on seeing it as vital to US and Artic security, but this is beyond anything that can be even remotely seen as sensible and it needs unity both here and in the EU in defying him
He already has military access for the US and needs to be told no, no matter the consquences
“ He already has military access for the US”
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
So they're voluntarily manufacturing a problem which requires them to threaten invasion of a close ally, that's the thinking here?
No. That’s not what I’m saying. What I am saying is - and it’s pretty much the bottom line to all this isn’t it - the “manufacturing of problem” bit is in your head, not at all in theirs. In their minds “the problem” going forward is very serious and very real.
The honest mindset Trump and thinkers around him are introducing to the America’s, is the past being a raft you cannot ride forever - isn’t it? Europe is already an economic and philosophical competitor of the America’s, and so focussing on your own needs now, and specifically prepare for what you need for your future security, and mineral resources and sustainability {and where both actually tie in}, is where you don’t consider economic and philosophical rivals as being ongoing friends, at all, long into the short medium or long term, into the rapids, even to the summit of the waterfall.
They see you, Kle4 the European, as an economic rival and threat, they don’t agree with your philosophy either - they don’t agree with you on “freedom” and, it’s looking not agreeing with you on liberal democracy as well.
Trump, and the crew around him, in their minds, need to protect the USA and its future Golden Age from you - you personally Kle4. You need to think about it. Your very existence is a threat to them, their future hopes and dreams.
I don't believe that is their honest mindset - if it were, the GOP response out of the gate would have been a lot more full throated in support. The rampting up of the rhetoric to make it existential, rather than merely critical, which only emerged later, makes it appear a political choice rather than some ideological imperative.
How much more telling us and demonstrating that is their honest mindset, do you need?
If they'd mentioned the need to invate any time before Trump first brought it up.
I believe he is serious in intending to do it, if he feels he has to. I don't believe any of the others believe it is necessary for the military security of the United States.
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
Buying Greenland is popular with Republicans as the poll I showed earlier said (but not invading it), US voters overall though are opposed once Democrats and Independents are included
Realistically speaking any US invasion of Greenland is going to be over as soon as anyone hears that it is happening, and so there's going to be nothing for US voters to oppose.
Once the deed has been done I don't see many Republican voters being in favour of withdrawing with their tail between their legs.
You would also have to occupy it and plenty of Greenlanders would be willing to form an armed resistance, perhaps even with arms supplied by the Danes and then the US bodybags would start.
Democrats and Independents and therefore most Americans would be opposed anyway and there would certainly be enough Republicans in Congress willing to break lines to join them and impeach Trump and maybe even convict
Armed resistance? The population of Greenland is about that of a small British town, roughly that of Canterbury (just the settlement proper, not even the wider district) so we’re not taking a huge number of potential Maquisards.
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
Buying Greenland is popular with Republicans as the poll I showed earlier said (but not invading it), US voters overall though are opposed once Democrats and Independents are included
Realistically speaking any US invasion of Greenland is going to be over as soon as anyone hears that it is happening, and so there's going to be nothing for US voters to oppose.
Once the deed has been done I don't see many Republican voters being in favour of withdrawing with their tail between their legs.
You would also have to occupy it and plenty of Greenlanders would be willing to form an armed resistance, perhaps even with arms supplied by the Danes and then the US bodybags would start.
Democrats and Independents and therefore most Americans would be opposed anyway and there would certainly be enough Republicans in Congress willing to break lines to join them and impeach Trump and maybe even convict
You do know there are only 56,000 Greenlanders with about 20,000 in Nuuk
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
His base is like 35% at best at the moment.
More like 10%.
Oh, sorry, you mean his polling numbers not their IQ?
Farage is a traitor . Anyone voting for him should be interned as a threat to the country like what the US did to the Japanese in WW2 .
We also used internment in both world wars. They teach it in GCSE British racism history.
The Mountbatten’s were interned WWI with other Germans - but not my family (fathers side). I guess we must have spoken better English so weren’t thought of as German.
Maybe they were worried Moonrabbits might have lunar tics with them?
Perhaps they were thought to be hares rather than Herr's?
The European Union plans to suspend a trade deal with the United States over Trump’s Greenland tariffs, Bloomberg reports.
I think it already got suspended when the counterparty slapped 10% rising to 25% tariffs on them
It is unfortunate that Trump obviously wants Europe to be treated as a rival at best and enemy at worst, yet his actions (generally supported by 50% of americans, probably more like 25-35% on this issue) mean we still have to give him what he wants, since allies just cannot be treated like this, dancing to his whims.
It's not that the USA was ever a friend without any conditions, or interested in others above themselves, but the capriciousness is particularly damaging to making any kind of deals - how could they be trusted?
I actually think Greenlandschluss will be popular with DJT's base because it's owning the libs/EU, getting them out of NATO and Makes America Great Again.
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
Buying Greenland is popular with Republicans as the poll I showed earlier said (but not invading it), US voters overall though are opposed once Democrats and Independents are included
Realistically speaking any US invasion of Greenland is going to be over as soon as anyone hears that it is happening, and so there's going to be nothing for US voters to oppose.
Once the deed has been done I don't see many Republican voters being in favour of withdrawing with their tail between their legs.
You would also have to occupy it and plenty of Greenlanders would be willing to form an armed resistance, perhaps even with arms supplied by the Danes and then the US bodybags would start.
Democrats and Independents and therefore most Americans would be opposed anyway and there would certainly be enough Republicans in Congress willing to break lines to join them and impeach Trump and maybe even convict
You do know there are only 56,000 Greenlanders with about 20,000 in Nuuk
It is approx 9 times the size of the UK
Taking on the US in an armed conflict is nonsense
I think this time of year they might have some Titanic allies.
Trump intervention being seen as attempt at trading Greenland as a price for Western security [Nato] & economic [tariff deals] alliance…
Europe at this time, responding with uncharacteristic uniformity, from London to Berlin:
“No, Non, Nein”:
In the same thread, it’s Mark Carney to blame !!
“ Did Mark Carney turning up in Beijing, and increasing trade with Xi when world had been warned by US admin “it’s China vs the world”, essentially serve as an “emperors new clothes” moment for world power, and help provoke this utterly astonishing intervention from Pres Trump?”
Comments
“MAGA gangsterism is repulsive. Right-wing parties will be caught between fence-sitting and outright defence, both to their disadvantage. The British Labour Party is probably uniquely the worst placed to capitalise on it though.“
https://x.com/maxtempers/status/2012577084921516324?s=61
The European right needs to distance themselves from Trump.
The Cyprus presidency has convened an extraordinary meeting of EU Ambassadors (Coreper) for Sunday afternoon to discuss Trump’s 10% tariff announcement.
That said, it being #1 and everyone talking and caring about it are two massively different things.
When you're there, the US is massively insular and can feel more like 50 different countries.
Jacob needs to win his old seat back first though
Christ knows what the order of priority is for sorting things out.
But in scenario the US were to withdraw from NATO, could they rely on the military and security access to Greenland they need for their homeland security, hence a very serious requirement to own it themselves?
He can't and won't because he doesn't believe in it, and his friends would be too upset if he backed this country and western democracy against its old (Russia) and new (USA) enemies.
I am happy to be proved wrong about this. Let's wait and see.
But I think he will never win a general election and never be PM.
Expect to see support for taking Greenland, one way or another, increase in popularity in the next few weeks.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15473067/Donald-Trump-Britain-tariffs-Greenland-deal-buy-territory.html
It's also worth remembering that this stuff cuts both ways: almost all modern semiconductor plants rely on lithography machines from ASML, a Dutch company.
Europe has a semiconductor industry: Infineon being the biggest part of it. It's just it's speciality is power ICs and analog; stuff that is ironically very important as we move towards electric cars.
Of course, what we'll get is not enough money, wooly timescales, and the French trying to twist the whole project to their own benefit.
HYUFD was saying polling in the US was solidly against it, even in Republican circles.
This could be the straw that breaks the non MAGA Republicans back.
The EPP is in favour of the EU–U.S. trade deal, but given Donald Trump’s threats regarding Greenland, approval is not possible at this stage. The 0% tariffs on U.S. products must be put on hold. #EuropeanUnity
Only 47% opposed US efforts to acquire Greenland though albeit with only 17% in favour. Republicans did back Trump trying to purchase Greenland by 40% to 14%, with 79% of Democrats and 51% of Independents still opposed
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/just-one-five-americans-support-trumps-efforts-acquire-greenland-reutersipsos-2026-01-14/
I don't think it will be very popular, and there will be a bare handful who remain utterly opposed to what is going on, but I expect the GOP support figures to increase if he takes any more aggressive steps, as they are already starting to justify it as an existential issue for America.
Solids are rubbish for space launch, perfect for military weapons.
The Nightfall missile has just 500km of range. But is supposed to be a cheap, rapid development. And would be a very useful learning project to train engineers on medium/large solids.
The RVs we build for Trident are 100kg or so. So a Nightfall carrying a nuke would have a range of 600-700km
"Trump’s 25% tariffs on allies supporting Greenland against his imperialist threats are unacceptable.
We must act now: suspend negotiations on the EU-US trade deal and activate the Anti-Coercion Instrument.
The EU will not bow to intimidation."
But whether he is or not I'm not sure what he would really gain from joining before there was already going to be some kind of deal or merger. I get the sense his personal red lines would be reached more easily trying to work with Farage.
What makes this statement by Emmanuel Macron so unprecedented is, for the first time, a leading European ally is equating Trump with Putin.
“No intimidation or threat will influence us - neither in Ukraine, nor in Greenland, nor anywhere else in the world.”
EVERYTHING has changed.
It's a straightforward asset grab suggested to Trump by one of his real estate buddies who has investments in Greenland.
Same approach witb Gaza hence involvement there of Witkoff and Kuchner.
The spirit of Al Capone lives on.
Starmer has held this line that Trumpler is our ally and can do business. Please can that now be dropped?
The honest mindset Trump and thinkers around him are introducing to the America’s, is the past being a raft you cannot ride forever - isn’t it? Europe is already an economic and philosophical competitor of the America’s, and so focussing on your own needs now, and specifically prepare for what you need for your future security, and mineral resources and sustainability {and where both actually tie in}, is where you don’t consider economic and philosophical rivals as being ongoing friends, at all, in the medium or long term, even the short term there are these rapids, even to the summit of the waterfall.
They see you, Kle4 the European, as an economic rival and threat, they don’t agree with your philosophy either - they don’t agree with you on “freedom” and, it’s looking like not agreeing with you on liberal democracy as well.
Trump, and the crew around him, in their minds, need to protect the USA and its future Golden Age from you - you personally Kle4. You need to think about it. Your very existence is a threat to them, their future hopes and dreams.
In any case only 7% of Republicans who said the issue was important said his conviction made them less likely to vote for Trump
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/17/trouble-for-trump-in-a-new-poll-on-his-conviction-00163498
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/general-view-of-margaret-thatcher-house-the-surgery-of-news-photo/515718574
The Mercury Mall shopping centre and car park to the left. And whilst Romford Conservatives are sometimes odd, and many of them are much more loyal to Andrew than he deserves, why on Earth would they sell the building to him? There are plenty of vacant shops and offices in the town centre, if he wants a new one.
(The story was very quickly denied and deleted. The "he would have defected already as long as he got to keep the house" felt fishy from the beginning.)
British racismhistory.EuroNATO/EU is gently trying to say 'Greenland is well defended. Good old NATO and good old USA a member of it.'
*runs away and hides*
https://hackcartoonsdiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Cartoon_Fougasse-on-World-War-Two-via-Matthew-Buck-Hack-Cartoons.jpg
Of course, there is a group of (still) basically friendly countries nearby whose population adds up to 500 million or so.
If you think EVERYTHING has changed then when do you expect the cuts to welfare so that strategic security can be funded ?
Plenty of people in the UK would get behind a similar project if we had the military and economic might to do it.
We managed to own and run India until a century ago but obviously times change and the age of Empire was assumed to be over until Putin and Trump came along
Once the deed has been done I don't see many Republican voters being in favour of withdrawing with their tail between their legs.
https://www.pinklanebakery.co.uk/#
OSINTdefender
@sentdefender
Officers and reconnaissance troops with the Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces) and other European military personnel arrive in Greenland aboard a Boeing 737 with the Polish charter airline Enter Air, as part of a Danish-led “advance force” to coordinate the arrival of additional air, ground, and naval assets expected to deploy soon to the Northern Atlantic.
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2012619472696135703
Democrats and Independents and therefore most Americans would be opposed anyway and there would certainly be enough Republicans in Congress willing to break lines to join them and impeach Trump and maybe even convict
As for Gaza former PM Blair should immediately refuse to be a part of it and cite the threats to Greenland as the reason. I’m sure a man of high principle and and internationalist outlook won’t hesitate to do so.
The European Parliament is NOT voting this deal.
Renew Europe leader Valérie Hayer says Trump's 10% tariff announcement is "unacceptable":
"These announcements follow many other agressive actions towards the EU. Therefore, it is now time to move from reliance to deterrence. Consequently, Renew Europe cannot vote the EU-US Turnberry trade deal."
"Furthermore, the EU should be prepared to deploy targeted and proportionate countermeasures. The activation of the EU Anti-Coercion Instrument should be explicitly considered, as it was designed precisely for situations of economic intimidation of this nature."
https://x.com/KB_ISaidBoourns/status/2012635474821628098
I believe he is serious in intending to do it, if he feels he has to. I don't believe any of the others believe it is necessary for the military security of the United States.
Towards the city https://wildflourcork.com/
And just over the Caha Pass in Kerry https://www.maisongourmetkenmare.com/
And the patisserie chef at the Brook Lane Hotel in Kenmare is with the overnight stay.
It is approx 9 times the size of the UK
Taking on the US in an armed conflict is nonsense
Oh, sorry, you mean his polling numbers not their IQ?
Anxious minds need to know.
the dominos are now falling…
Trump intervention being seen as attempt at trading Greenland as a price for Western security [Nato] & economic [tariff deals] alliance…
Europe at this time, responding with uncharacteristic uniformity, from London to Berlin:
“No, Non, Nein”:
It's not that the USA was ever a friend without any conditions, or interested in others above themselves, but the capriciousness is particularly damaging to making any kind of deals - how could they be trusted?
Hans (Hedt)oft Greenland!
“ Did Mark Carney turning up in Beijing, and increasing trade with Xi when world had been warned by US admin “it’s China vs the world”, essentially serve as an “emperors new clothes” moment for world power, and help provoke this utterly astonishing intervention from Pres Trump?”
https://x.com/faisalislam/status/2012605302592450876?s=61