Skip to content

North and South – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,763
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,802

    The real fascism is going on in Iran: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clyzjn0w9l2t

    The BBC's wording on some of their reports is very strange.

    "The footage appears to have been filmed in an enclosed area resembling a parking lot, with several vehicles visible, including cars similar to Peugeot and Tiba models."

    'Similar to'? Are they so afraid of being called out for getting the make of car slightly wrong during a potential revolution?

    "The German tanks similar to Tiger II's were visible as..."
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,157

    Trump's conference

    I will take Greenland one way or another, otherwise Russia or China will !!!!

    Russia or China will invade a NATO member. For sure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,814

    Trump's conference

    I will take Greenland one way or another, otherwise Russia or China will !!!!

    Russia or China will invade a NATO member. For sure.
    Neither Russia nor China have expressed an interest in taking Greenland, nor have most Americans
    https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2026-01-08/greenland-military-poll-20339489.html
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,337
    After confronting the Russian flagged ship off the Irish coast, the US has allowed two Russians on board to go free after a request from Moscow. Trump can't help himself.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,634
    Interesting:

    Ukraine and the United States are planning to sign a “prosperity” deal to rebuild the country at a gathering of world leaders in Davos.

    Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump are heading to the Swiss mountain resort, where they are expected to meet and finalise the agreement, Western officials have told The Telegraph.

    The Ukrainian president had hoped to travel to the White House next week to conclude both the economic prosperity plan and a deal on post-war security guarantees.

    But his European backers in the “coalition of the willing” advised against the trip,
    and instead suggested the World Economic Forum as a more suitable alternative at which to meet Mr Trump.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/2b4199fd8277191f

    (Full article link)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,503

    After confronting the Russian flagged ship off the Irish coast, the US has allowed two Russians on board to go free after a request from Moscow. Trump can't help himself.

    The God Emperor granted them clemency.

    This is the way
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 449
    edited January 9

    HYUFD said:

    The fact that the station is called "Sheffield Midland" and is at the end of the Midland Mainline is clear evidence that the Steel City is not in The North.

    I always consider that I've reached The South as the train pulls in to Peterborough.

    Sheffield is certainly North, Peterborough is East Anglia, not South
    Personally I've always regarded Sheffield as a frontier town.
    It is, and it’s North.
    5 miles south is Stanage.

    Mercia ended at the bottom of Stanage edge. Northumbria, started at the top.

    These define North and Other - maybe South maybe Midlands. IMO

    The border moved many times over the hundreds of years that the Heptarchy was a thing. But Stanage Edge and friends are still geographically notable.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,029

    Trump's conference

    I will take Greenland one way or another, otherwise Russia or China will !!!!

    I'm sure Denmark, who are already semi-cucked on the issue, will start to come under pressure from "allies" to submit. They can't be fucking stupid enough to believe that SKS, Macron, the bald German one, Fash Karen, etc. are going to stand with them if they defy Trump.

    One may smile, and smile, and be a villain; at least I'm sure it may be so in Denmark.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,366
    Manchester United's appointment of a caretaker manager until the end of the season is reaching its conclusion, with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer due to have face-to-face talks about a return to the club on Saturday.

    Ole at the whhhhhheeeeel....
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,216
    ohnotnow said:

    The real fascism is going on in Iran: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clyzjn0w9l2t

    The BBC's wording on some of their reports is very strange.

    "The footage appears to have been filmed in an enclosed area resembling a parking lot, with several vehicles visible, including cars similar to Peugeot and Tiba models."

    'Similar to'? Are they so afraid of being called out for getting the make of car slightly wrong during a potential revolution?

    "The German tanks similar to Tiger II's were visible as..."
    Sounds like cheap ai filler tbh.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,763

    The first constituency going North (in my old data, amusement only) where 50% of the population of England is to your south is South Cambridgeshire.

    Only once you pass 75% of the population do you get anywhere near what might be described as North - Rother Valley.

    That's sounds an approximate split of:

    25% North
    25% Greater Midlands
    25% Outer South
    25% London and commuter belt
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,107

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,169

    The first constituency going North (in my old data, amusement only) where 50% of the population of England is to your south is South Cambridgeshire.

    Only once you pass 75% of the population do you get anywhere near what might be described as North - Rother Valley.

    That's sounds an approximate split of:

    25% North
    25% Greater Midlands
    25% Outer South
    25% London and commuter belt
    It's very simple. You have reached the North when the average IQ drops below 100.


    OK, I have my coat. See you all tomorrow. Stay warm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,814
    edited January 9
    Dura_Ace said:

    Trump's conference

    I will take Greenland one way or another, otherwise Russia or China will !!!!

    I'm sure Denmark, who are already semi-cucked on the issue, will start to come under pressure from "allies" to submit. They can't be fucking stupid enough to believe that SKS, Macron, the bald German one, Fash Karen, etc. are going to stand with them if they defy Trump.

    One may smile, and smile, and be a villain; at least I'm sure it may be so in Denmark.
    Given even most Americans and most of Congress don't want Greenland, why would they? Trump would probably be impeached and convicted within a month of invading Greenland and US taxpayers don't want billions and billions of their tax dollars going to make residents of Greenland millionaires either

    “When Denmark and Greenland make it clear that Greenland is not for sale, the United States must honor its treaty obligations,” Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C., and Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., said in a joint statement Tuesday. “Any suggestion that our nation would subject a fellow NATO ally to coercion or external pressure undermines the very principles of self-determination that our Alliance exists to defend,” they said. Republican Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said Wednesday that the way to strengthen the American position in the Arctic is through bolstering alliances already in place. “Threats and intimidation by U.S. officials over American ownership of Greenland are as unseemly as they are counterproductive,” McConnell said in a statement. “And the use of force to seize the sovereign democratic territory of one of America’s most loyal and capable allies would be an especially catastrophic act of strategic self-harm to America and its global influence,” he added.'

    https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2026-01-08/greenland-military-poll-20339489.html
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,337
    Dura_Ace said:

    Trump's conference

    I will take Greenland one way or another, otherwise Russia or China will !!!!

    I'm sure Denmark, who are already semi-cucked on the issue, will start to come under pressure from "allies" to submit. They can't be fucking stupid enough to believe that SKS, Macron, the bald German one, Fash Karen, etc. are going to stand with them if they defy Trump.

    One may smile, and smile, and be a villain; at least I'm sure it may be so in Denmark.
    As much as you might wish, the truth is it isn't likely to happen.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,463

    Manchester United's appointment of a caretaker manager until the end of the season is reaching its conclusion, with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer due to have face-to-face talks about a return to the club on Saturday.

    Ole at the whhhhhheeeeel....

    He was recently overlooked for the Middlesbrough job.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,763
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,555

    @TSE Re That Martinelli Chappy

    Have only just seen the interesting conclusion to last nite's match and I can see why you were a little irritated. Martinelli shoud have been sent off, although possibly not for the reasons you think.

    He threw the ball at a grounded opponent. I had just this situation in a game I reffed long ago and I have had the luxury of many years to contemplate the correct action. All other things being equal, it's a booking, but not a red card (unless it is so egregious as to constitute violent conduct, but normally it would not.)

    The shove on the stricken player is a separate incident, and again it is a yellow card. It is undoubtedly ungentlemanly conduct, but not violent. This second yellow then makes it a sending off, which is I think the outcome you wanted though not necessarily by the same process of reasoning as you followed.

    Sorry for the delay in posting this but I know how much you value my opinion and I didn't want you to think I didn't have one.

    Best

    PtP

    Further proof that Arsenal are shitty little club.

    Fans have been pointing to a video from 2021 showing Mikel Arteta telling Gabriel Martinelli to get back on the pitch to receive treatment, following the Arsenal winger’s attempt to push Conor Bradley off on Thursday evening 👀

    https://x.com/FootballJOE/status/2009659177631912237
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,055
    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    MattW said:

    Where do road signs to The North stop?

    Do we still have them? I haven’t driven very far north for a long time. But I remember them from trips to Glossop (where my Dad’s from; definitely in the North, even though it’s in Derbyshire, as a kid)

    Here's one in Shetland.

    "Lerwick 5
    The North"

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/gpPNMMCnoeT7jfiE8

    There's one on the same post saying "The South".

    Very ultralocal, Shetland.
    Surely the North begins once you are past Hatfield.
    Hatfield near Doncaster? Fair enough.
    Does anyone remember the band Hatfield and the North?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,263
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The north begins at Hadrian's Wall. If that north/south boundary was good enough for the Romans, it's good enough for me.

    No, Scotland really began at Hadrian's Wall then
    Don't forget the Antonine Wall!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,432
    @Sunil_Prasannan This might be of interest if you havent seen it aready
    "I’ve visited more than 500 British railway stations and these are the best (and worst)"
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/de8de4ff2e15bc57
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 7,013
    edited January 9
    I don’t understand the world we live in any more. A world where the US VP actively chooses to post a video showing his minions murder an innocent woman and then forcefully claims that it exonerates them.

    The 1984 comparison really is fair. They are trying to say that black is white.

    On their worst day, neither Boris nor Corbyn would be capable of this level of pure, wickedness. I doubt Farage could.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    The fact that the station is called "Sheffield Midland" and is at the end of the Midland Mainline is clear evidence that the Steel City is not in The North.

    I always consider that I've reached The South as the train pulls in to Peterborough.

    Are you really saying Yorkshire is the South?

    I mean really?
    No, I'm saying that Sheffield is in the Midlands. The North begins at Rotherham.
    The badlands. Just look at the outlaws that live there. @TheScreamingEagles. @bigjohnowls. Nuff said!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The north begins at Hadrian's Wall. If that north/south boundary was good enough for the Romans, it's good enough for me.

    No, Scotland really began at Hadrian's Wall then
    That was 2,000 years ago. The border has moved north since then, although Northumberland is so wonderful it deserves to be part of Scotland.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The fact that the station is called "Sheffield Midland" and is at the end of the Midland Mainline is clear evidence that the Steel City is not in The North.

    I always consider that I've reached The South as the train pulls in to Peterborough.

    Sheffield is certainly North, Peterborough is East Anglia, not South
    Peterborough isn't in the sticky out bit, so not East Anglia.
    East Anglia includes Cambridgeshire and much of Essex, not just Norfolk and Suffolk
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia
    The north folk and the south folk were angles. Essex were east saxons. Cambridgeshire is just a piece of land surrounding the world’s best lawyers.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    geoffw said:

    The north is like infinity, a direction not a destination

    The north is an ambition. The south is just jealous.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,432

    geoffw said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan This might be of interest if you havent seen it aready
    "I’ve visited more than 500 British railway stations and these are the best (and worst)"
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/de8de4ff2e15bc57

    Pah, I've visited 612 stations within Greater London alone :)
    Indeed. But do you agree with him about Hebden Bridge, Wemyss Bay etc?

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,157

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    So he's saying he's an immigrant then? Someone should tell ICE.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,263
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan This might be of interest if you havent seen it aready
    "I’ve visited more than 500 British railway stations and these are the best (and worst)"
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/de8de4ff2e15bc57

    Pah, I've visited 612 stations within Greater London alone :)
    Indeed. But do you agree with him about Hebden Bridge, Wemyss Bay etc?

    I've been through Hebden Bridge (as opposed to visit), but I have visited Wemyss Bay, it is a beautiful station!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The fact that the station is called "Sheffield Midland" and is at the end of the Midland Mainline is clear evidence that the Steel City is not in The North.

    I always consider that I've reached The South as the train pulls in to Peterborough.

    Sheffield is certainly North, Peterborough is East Anglia, not South
    Peterborough isn't in the sticky out bit, so not East Anglia.
    East Anglia includes Cambridgeshire and much of Essex, not just Norfolk and Suffolk
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia
    North of Chelmsford you move from ex Cockney and New Money Essex to East Anglian Essex
    So, gangsters stop at Dunmow. You must be just south of the safety zone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,100


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie

    I'm at the Reform rally at the Excel centre in London. So far this evening I've chatted with a couple of Hindu pensioners, a Tube driver, a soldier, a Christian youth worker, a millionaire property developer and a violinist. This absolutely chimes with all of the published polling. Reform is the party most like modern Britain. Unlike Labour it represents business and the working class. Unlike the Tories it can win in Wales, Scotland and the North. Unlike the LibDems it is actually liberal and democratic! I'm excited to be a small part of what
    @Nigel_Farage is building. A truly national party that is this fast declining country's last, best chance.

    https://x.com/montie/status/2009698327013568888

    One good thing about Tim Montgomerie defecting is we no longer have to listen to his witterings being labelled as those of a "Top Tory".
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,642

    The first constituency going North (in my old data, amusement only) where 50% of the population of England is to your south is South Cambridgeshire.

    Only once you pass 75% of the population do you get anywhere near what might be described as North - Rother Valley.

    That's sounds an approximate split of:

    25% North
    25% Greater Midlands
    25% Outer South
    25% London and commuter belt
    That looks about right.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    After confronting the Russian flagged ship off the Irish coast, the US has allowed two Russians on board to go free after a request from Moscow. Trump can't help himself.

    If they had been Ukrainians they may not have been freed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,503
    @chadloder.bsky.social‬

    It should be bigger news that masked agents were filmed hours ago removing potentially inculpatory evidence from the ICE shooter's house, clearly lacking evidence tags or chain of custody stickers.

    Before we have word on whether he underwent a toxicology screen at the hospital following the killing

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadloder.bsky.social/post/3mbzgb3nzr22q
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,100

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    There is that.

    Because of Trump's rhetoric and totally uncompromising style he isn't cut any slack in turn when he does it and turns it up to 11.

    It shows how much language and tone can matter in politics, I guess.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,263

    geoffw said:

    The north is like infinity, a direction not a destination

    The north is an ambition. The south is just jealous.
    Is it true that Roman England used to end at the Antonine Wall?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,100
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The north begins at Hadrian's Wall. If that north/south boundary was good enough for the Romans, it's good enough for me.

    No, Scotland really began at Hadrian's Wall then
    Where Scotland begins is tricky. In better days for Northumbria, it stretched from the Humber to Edinburgh. So built into our historic fabric is the sense that the present 'national' boundary is odd. Another oddness is that the boundary doesn't at all follow Hadrian's Wall. A further oddity is that until as recently as the 12th century, Cumberland was not part of England. England ended at Eamont Bridge. Next year 2027, we shall be reminded by the historians that it is the anniversary of the Treaty of Eamont Bridge on 12th July 927, a mere 1100 years ago, which marks for most the foundation of England under King Athelstan.

    I'm sure Starmer will give us a public holiday for that, with much rejoicing and celebration.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,100

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    It's a bit like what John Cleese said about London.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,029

    After confronting the Russian flagged ship off the Irish coast, the US has allowed two Russians on board to go free after a request from Moscow. Trump can't help himself.

    If they had been Ukrainians they may not have been freed.
    There were Ukrainian, Georgian and Indian crew according to Ukrainian media. Fate of the Ukrainians unknown. Might be getting locked up in the US. Might be getting shipped back to Ukraine and then then to a trench on the zero line via a TCC Renault Trafic. Might get a podcast. All to play for.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    edited January 9
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan This might be of interest if you havent seen it aready
    "I’ve visited more than 500 British railway stations and these are the best (and worst)"
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/de8de4ff2e15bc57

    Pah, I've visited 612 stations within Greater London alone :)
    Indeed. But do you agree with him about Hebden Bridge, Wemyss Bay etc?

    Wemyss Bay station is the only British building that can compare with York Minster, the Rows in Chester, Salisbury Cathedral or Lavenham for beauty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135
    rcs1000 said:

    I have nothing against the North or Northerners.

    Some of my best friends claim to have passed through there on their way to salmon fishing in Scotland.

    That's as good a metaphor as any for the way our economy is managed.
    Whicb partly accounts for our current dismal position.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,100

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    edited January 9

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    America is not a civilised society. Thank goodness they’re not part of Europe.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,463
    edited January 9
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    @Sunil_Prasannan This might be of interest if you havent seen it aready
    "I’ve visited more than 500 British railway stations and these are the best (and worst)"
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/de8de4ff2e15bc57

    Pah, I've visited 612 stations within Greater London alone :)
    Indeed. But do you agree with him about Hebden Bridge, Wemyss Bay etc?

    He seems to have something against the North East! Particularly unfair on Middlesbrough I think - I really like the arch design of the exterior walls.

    But I do agree about London Euston. It's the pits - polar opposite to the wonderful St Pancras.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,836
    ohnotnow said:

    The real fascism is going on in Iran: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clyzjn0w9l2t

    The BBC's wording on some of their reports is very strange.

    "The footage appears to have been filmed in an enclosed area resembling a parking lot, with several vehicles visible, including cars similar to Peugeot and Tiba models."

    'Similar to'? Are they so afraid of being called out for getting the make of car slightly wrong during a potential revolution?

    "The German tanks similar to Tiger II's were visible as..."
    Re: Similar to Tiger II

    Were the road wheels overlapped or interleaved?

    Was spacing even, or was there a gap?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,366
    edited January 9

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    The footage of the incident where the agent was dragged along and suffered serious injuries 4-5 months ago was quite similar. I am sure that played into their reaction.

    Although we keep seeing scandals with our plod, one aspect is definitely extremely good, the firearm teams. The rare occasions when they end up shooting somebody and its being borderline it is never anything to do with being provocated and the wider context of for instance Chris Kaba or Mark Duggan it is absolutely clear why they took the action they did. It is why it was a disgrace politicians tried to throw them under the bus for the Kaba case when as soon as we knew the context it was clearly not a trigger happy fireman arms officer.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,439

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,362

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    America is not a civilised society. Thank goodness they’re not part of Europe.
    Yet
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,463

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,111


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie

    I'm at the Reform rally at the Excel centre in London. So far this evening I've chatted with a couple of Hindu pensioners, a Tube driver, a soldier, a Christian youth worker, a millionaire property developer and a violinist. This absolutely chimes with all of the published polling. Reform is the party most like modern Britain. Unlike Labour it represents business and the working class. Unlike the Tories it can win in Wales, Scotland and the North. Unlike the LibDems it is actually liberal and democratic! I'm excited to be a small part of what
    @Nigel_Farage is building. A truly national party that is this fast declining country's last, best chance.

    https://x.com/montie/status/2009698327013568888

    One good thing about Tim Montgomerie defecting is we no longer have to listen to his witterings being labelled as those of a "Top Tory".
    A Ranking Reformer--- especially if you have a rhotic "r".
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,100

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    The footage of the incident where the agent was dragged along and suffered serious injuries 4-5 months ago was quite similar. I am sure that played into it.

    Although we keep seeing scandals with our plod, one aspect is definitely extremely good, the firearm teams. The rare occasions when they end up shooting somebody and its being borderline it is never anything to do with being provocated and the wider context of for instance Chris Kaba or Mark Duggan it is absolutely clear why they took the action they did. It is why it was a disgrace politicians tried to throw them under the bus for the Kaba case when as soon as we knew the context it was clearly not a trigger happy fireman arms officer.
    Yes. The only one where they really fucked up with firearms was Jean Charles de Menezes. And then lied about it.

    But it seems to be almost an everyday occurance in America.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    I would contend that Sheffield is in Yorkshire, which transcends both north and south. Middlesbrough is the north. Sheffield is the south. Nowhere else outwith Scotland matters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,366
    edited January 9

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    The footage of the incident where the agent was dragged along and suffered serious injuries 4-5 months ago was quite similar. I am sure that played into it.

    Although we keep seeing scandals with our plod, one aspect is definitely extremely good, the firearm teams. The rare occasions when they end up shooting somebody and its being borderline it is never anything to do with being provocated and the wider context of for instance Chris Kaba or Mark Duggan it is absolutely clear why they took the action they did. It is why it was a disgrace politicians tried to throw them under the bus for the Kaba case when as soon as we knew the context it was clearly not a trigger happy fireman arms officer.
    Yes. The only one where they really fucked up with firearms was Jean Charles de Menezes. And then lied about it.

    But it seems to be almost an everyday occurance in America.
    The fact we all know that case and we can still name it what 20 odd years on tells you how often they get it wrong. The cover up was disgraceful, good job the person in overseeing the operation was never put in charge of the MET....they might end up introducing a mad scheme were they hired wrong'uns who fail background checks because diversity or something.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,432

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    Easy, yes.
    More difficult: when I travel from Edinburgh to Bristol am I going east?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,836

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    The footage of the incident where the agent was dragged along and suffered serious injuries 4-5 months ago was quite similar. I am sure that played into their reaction.

    Although we keep seeing scandals with our plod, one aspect is definitely extremely good, the firearm teams. The rare occasions when they end up shooting somebody and its being borderline it is never anything to do with being provocated and the wider context of for instance Chris Kaba or Mark Duggan it is absolutely clear why they took the action they did. It is why it was a disgrace politicians tried to throw them under the bus for the Kaba case when as soon as we knew the context it was clearly not a trigger happy fireman arms officer.
    The Chris Kaba case wasn’t politicians so much as a group in the CPS who want to get a conviction of an armed policeman.

    I’ve heard it said that the judge suppressed the statement the jury wanted read, because it was an open attack on the prosecutor - and the judge knew that would really set things off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,439

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
    He straddles the Pennines like a colossus.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,735

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    Whatever horrors Trump perpetrates Richard will react with a variation of "but the Dems ...". It borders on the pathological.
    Yes, I manage to see beyond the mindless "my side good, their side bad" cheerleading too many people, on either side, engage in.

    Perhaps you would prefer if I joined the chorus to spout the likes of:

    Joe Biden isn't senile he's always had his funny ways / absent mind / stutter
    Hunter Biden is a victim of a political witch hunt.
    Joe Biden will never give Hunter a presidential pardon.
    Vance is a furniture shagger, hahaha

    and on and on.

    What I'd like to see in the USA is honest, competent, centrist government - that's not been on offer for the last decade so I'll happily continue to blame the lot of them. The only variance is which side is currently the more dishonest, incompetent and extreme - currently its Trump's gang.
    I know you're no Trump supporter. But to say that him and his crew are just like the Dems is 'both sides' ism at its most ludicrous imo.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
    He’s in the South of the North, just like London is in the South of England. Neither are sensible. York should be the capital of England and Hexham should be the capital of the North. Glasgow can remain the capital of the World.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    geoffw said:

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    Easy, yes.
    More difficult: when I travel from Edinburgh to Bristol am I going east?

    Why would you travel from Edinburgh to Bristol, except under duress?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,289

    geoffw said:

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    Easy, yes.
    More difficult: when I travel from Edinburgh to Bristol am I going east?

    Why would you travel from Edinburgh to Bristol, except under duress?
    Good friends of mine who live in Edinburgh have a daughter at Bristol. That would be one reason.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    There are other laws than the 'constitutional right' to shove a camera into a cop's face.

    Immigration laws have been flouted for decades - which is what lies behind the whole ICE deployment issue.

    Or is it okay for laws to be flouted as long as the 'correct side' is doing it ?
    And that's only the third worst attempt at whataboutery so far today.

    When BritICE smash down your door and demand your passport, you'll be glad someone like me will be there filming it. Particularly if you get shot for protesting it.
    You'll forgive me for not overly worrying about that possibility.

    Thuggish law enforcement in the USA didn't start 12 months ago.

    Incidentally were deportations of illegal immigrants a bad thing when Slick Willie and St Barack massively increased the rate ?

    https://www.cato.org/blog/deportation-rates-historical-perspective

    Or when Sleepy Joe did so:

    US immigration authorities last year deported the largest number of undocumented immigrants in nearly a decade, surpassing the record of Donald Trump's first term in office.

    More than 271,000 immigrants were deported from the US over the last fiscal year, according to a report released by the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency on Thursday.

    The ICE report comes just weeks before President-elect Trump, who plans to make mass deportation a cornerstone of his incoming administration, takes office.

    President Joe Biden in 2021 had pledged to pause deportations, but his administration ended up expanding it following a surge in border crossings.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c36e41dx425o
    At least you've given up on the phone thing.
    No, sticking a phone in the face of a stressed man with a gun is not sensible.

    I might sarcastically suggest you could try it next time you see an armed plod - but I wouldn't want anyone to do that so I wont.
    It wouldn't surprise me if more footage/ information came out before the incident showing she'd been provocative and obstructive which had built up to the incident concerned.

    Nevertheless, you don't just dump three bullets in a civilian at point blank range. It's just wrong.

    I don't know how they train or teach American law enforcement but self-discipline doesn't seem to always be there, and there's far too much of the shoot first ask questions later style - rather than a method of absolute last resort.

    Chekhov's Gun.
    The footage of the incident where the agent was dragged along and suffered serious injuries 4-5 months ago was quite similar. I am sure that played into their reaction.

    Although we keep seeing scandals with our plod, one aspect is definitely extremely good, the firearm teams. The rare occasions when they end up shooting somebody and its being borderline it is never anything to do with being provocated and the wider context of for instance Chris Kaba or Mark Duggan it is absolutely clear why they took the action they did. It is why it was a disgrace politicians tried to throw them under the bus for the Kaba case when as soon as we knew the context it was clearly not a trigger happy fireman arms officer.
    The Chris Kaba case wasn’t politicians so much as a group in the CPS who want to get a conviction of an armed policeman.

    I’ve heard it said that the judge suppressed the statement the jury wanted read, because it was an open attack on the prosecutor - and the judge knew that would really set things off.
    I’m more and more glad I don’t live in America. Remember when it used to be the land of free speech?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    geoffw said:

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    Easy, yes.
    More difficult: when I travel from Edinburgh to Bristol am I going east?

    Very difficult. You’re relying on Cross Country Trains!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,941


    Tim Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie

    I'm at the Reform rally at the Excel centre in London. So far this evening I've chatted with a couple of Hindu pensioners, a Tube driver, a soldier, a Christian youth worker, a millionaire property developer and a violinist. This absolutely chimes with all of the published polling. Reform is the party most like modern Britain. Unlike Labour it represents business and the working class. Unlike the Tories it can win in Wales, Scotland and the North. Unlike the LibDems it is actually liberal and democratic! I'm excited to be a small part of what
    @Nigel_Farage is building. A truly national party that is this fast declining country's last, best chance.

    https://x.com/montie/status/2009698327013568888

    So what he's saying is, this boozer he's clearly got hammered in is extremely cosmopolitan.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,289
    There is, of course, the north and then the real north. I was in a virtual court today with a colleague who lives in deep Aberdeenshire. She has not been able to get out of her house since 31st December. 9 days trapped in her house. That's real north.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,763
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    Whatever horrors Trump perpetrates Richard will react with a variation of "but the Dems ...". It borders on the pathological.
    Yes, I manage to see beyond the mindless "my side good, their side bad" cheerleading too many people, on either side, engage in.

    Perhaps you would prefer if I joined the chorus to spout the likes of:

    Joe Biden isn't senile he's always had his funny ways / absent mind / stutter
    Hunter Biden is a victim of a political witch hunt.
    Joe Biden will never give Hunter a presidential pardon.
    Vance is a furniture shagger, hahaha

    and on and on.

    What I'd like to see in the USA is honest, competent, centrist government - that's not been on offer for the last decade so I'll happily continue to blame the lot of them. The only variance is which side is currently the more dishonest, incompetent and extreme - currently its Trump's gang.
    I know you're no Trump supporter. But to say that him and his crew are just like the Dems is 'both sides' ism at its most ludicrous imo.
    Trump's gang certainly exceed the Dems in thuggery, corruption and economic incompetence.

    I don't think there's much difference between them on dishonesty and the Dems have the greater political incompetence.

    The aggravating thing is that the Dems had several good possible candidates in 2024 yet managed to fack up their candidate process, twice.

    The most interesting aspect, from a disinterested viewpoint, is how much more 'kinetic' the Trump administration is compared to what other administrations have been, including the first Trump.

    Agree with the things being done or not, its undoubted that things are being done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135
    Since no-one's asking (except @JP_Spencer_
    ) --- I calculated the population centre of North England and of Yorkshire and the Humber. The centre of North England is Oakworth, between Keighley and Haworth (red). The centre of Yorkshire is right on the East of Castleford (orange)

    https://x.com/thomasforth/status/2009749025897984193
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
    He straddles the Pennines like a colossus.

    The colossus of Woodhead!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,256
    geoffw said:

    ...when I travel from Edinburgh to Bristol am I going east?

    Yes. Well, South East.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285
    DavidL said:

    There is, of course, the north and then the real north. I was in a virtual court today with a colleague who lives in deep Aberdeenshire. She has not been able to get out of her house since 31st December. 9 days trapped in her house. That's real north.

    Agreed. IMHO the North starts at Kyle of Lochalsh and is north of Aviemore and Aberdeen. The midlands are south of there and north of Stirling and Oban. I am a southerner from Ayrshire, as opposed to a southron, who lives south of a line from Gretna to Newcastle.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,439
    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,941

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
    He straddles the Pennines like a colossus.

    The colossus of Woodhead!
    He was a very great colossus in his own estimation.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,285

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    Did his Grandfather drink in Munich beer halls? If so, there must be something in the water beer.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,735

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    Whatever horrors Trump perpetrates Richard will react with a variation of "but the Dems ...". It borders on the pathological.
    Yes, I manage to see beyond the mindless "my side good, their side bad" cheerleading too many people, on either side, engage in.

    Perhaps you would prefer if I joined the chorus to spout the likes of:

    Joe Biden isn't senile he's always had his funny ways / absent mind / stutter
    Hunter Biden is a victim of a political witch hunt.
    Joe Biden will never give Hunter a presidential pardon.
    Vance is a furniture shagger, hahaha

    and on and on.

    What I'd like to see in the USA is honest, competent, centrist government - that's not been on offer for the last decade so I'll happily continue to blame the lot of them. The only variance is which side is currently the more dishonest, incompetent and extreme - currently its Trump's gang.
    I know you're no Trump supporter. But to say that him and his crew are just like the Dems is 'both sides' ism at its most ludicrous imo.
    Trump's gang certainly exceed the Dems in thuggery, corruption and economic incompetence.

    I don't think there's much difference between them on dishonesty and the Dems have the greater political incompetence.

    The aggravating thing is that the Dems had several good possible candidates in 2024 yet managed to fack up their candidate process, twice.

    The most interesting aspect, from a disinterested viewpoint, is how much more 'kinetic' the Trump administration is compared to what other administrations have been, including the first Trump.

    Agree with the things being done or not, its undoubted that things are being done.
    That's one consequence of a massive power grab and not respecting checks and balances. You can do a shed load of stuff. But note how it excludes anything that requires complexity or sustained engagement with anybody else.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135
    Not good.

    Breaking: Mass Killing of Civilians in Tehran
    A report that has just reached me from Nikan Hospital in northern Tehran, with the help of Starlink internet, indicates that a large number of protesters in Iran who were targeted with live ammunition have been transferred to this hospital. According to this report, the number of fatalities at this hospital is very high.
    After cutting off the internet, the Iranian regime has opened fire on people in the streets.

    https://x.com/esmaeils1169/status/2009591863016047095
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,366
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    Wouldn't it be terrible if there was an accident at your store....
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,337
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    He's aware that there's nothing to stop the US building military bases in Greenland?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    Wouldn't it be terrible if there was an accident at your store....
    All this is blatantly illegal under US law, but absent Congress showing an ounce of belief in their constitutional role and powers, that probably won't matter.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,936
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    "We're not going to have Russia as a neighbour"

    Alaska is heading back, then, I take it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    He's aware that there's nothing to stop the US building military bases in Greenland?
    He neither believes nor gives a shit about the pretext. This is just about the exercise of power.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,340
    ydoethur said:

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
    He straddles the Pennines like a colossus.

    The colossus of Woodhead!
    He was a very great colossus in his own estimation.
    I thought the Woodhead pass was when a school teacher made an amorous move on a school girl.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,289
    Nigelb said:

    Not good.

    Breaking: Mass Killing of Civilians in Tehran
    A report that has just reached me from Nikan Hospital in northern Tehran, with the help of Starlink internet, indicates that a large number of protesters in Iran who were targeted with live ammunition have been transferred to this hospital. According to this report, the number of fatalities at this hospital is very high.
    After cutting off the internet, the Iranian regime has opened fire on people in the streets.

    https://x.com/esmaeils1169/status/2009591863016047095

    So Trump's bluff has been called. If it was a bluff. What does he do now?

    A smart person would leave this to the Iranians to sort out. So we can presume that is not an option.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,936
    edited January 9

    ydoethur said:

    Question for PB. When TSE travels from his home in Sheffield to his work in Manchester, is he commuting from the South to the North?

    No. Sheffield is the North.

    But the King of the North is located in Manchester.
    He straddles the Pennines like a colossus.

    The colossus of Woodhead!
    He was a very great colossus in his own estimation.
    I thought the Woodhead pass was when a school teacher made an amorous move on a school girl.
    Are you saying it would be less suggestive to call him the Colossus of Snake?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,135
    EU reaches South America trade deal after 25 years of talks
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqzj49gny4o

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,735

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    He's aware that there's nothing to stop the US building military bases in Greenland?
    Trump craves and creates big televisual happenings. An invasion of Greenland is much better from that pov than just exploiting the current treaty.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,634
    edited January 9
    viewcode said:

    geoffw said:

    ...when I travel from Edinburgh to Bristol am I going east?

    Yes. Well, South East.

    The survey answers seem perfectly sensible to me. Human bodies have a middle, so why can’t countries. Why can’t people in the midlands be in the middle, like belly buttons and waistlines. why should there be no middle just a North South line.

    Why should maps be north and south, when Maps have east and west,

    Tolkiens maps were more east and west than North and South.

    And surely it’s up south, not down? In Yorkshire we go up to London, don’t we, up to Cheltenham, up to Chepstow. South isn’t a down direction.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,263
    Pro_Rata said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2009737437006700791

    Trump: "Europe is changing. Europe has got to get its act together. I love Europe, I guess I came from Europe essentially I had, I have— my roots are in Europe, but Europe is a different place... they have to be very careful with their immigration policy."

    We're really not interested in the judgment of a senile authoritarian.
    This is the same Trump whose Grandfather was an economic migrant from Bavaria in late 1800s.

    His impulses, unfortunately, remain a matter of interest.

    ..'Whether they like it or not': Trump gives ominous warning on possible occupation of Greenland
    Donald Trump offered an ominous warning in his ongoing campaign to acquire Greenland. During his meeting with oil and gas executives today, the president said “we are going to do something on Greenland whether they like it or not”.

    His justification? “If we don’t do it, Russia or China will take over Greenland, and we’re not going to have Russia or China as a neighbor,” Trump said.

    “So we’re going to be doing something with Greenland, either the nice way or the more difficult way.”..

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2026/jan/09/trump-venezuela-oil-attacks-minnesota-portland-ice-supreme-court-tariffs-latest-news-updates

    "We're not going to have Russia as a neighbour"

    Alaska is heading back, then, I take it?
    The funny thing is the Russians sold Alaska to the USA back in 1867 in order to prevent Britain taking it over.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,055
    edited January 9
    Nigelb said:

    EU reaches South America trade deal after 25 years of talks
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqzj49gny4o

    Doing it against French opposition could be a big mistake for the legitimacy of the EU.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,166
    Last few days of our Mexican adventure and we're on Isla Holbox. I think it's one of the most beautiful beach islands I've ever been to but it's also got what I think are the most mosquitoes I've ever seen.

    It's also an abject lesson in not having any control over planning. The infrastructure on the island is basically nil and all the hotels just fend for themselves. If you go to the wrong beaches at the wrong time of day there is a very strong stench of sewage and the water has a worrying shade of brown at times. I think with better planning and infrastructure investment this could be an amazing place to visit. Even with the mosquitoes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,166

    Nigelb said:

    EU reaches South America trade deal after 25 years of talks
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqzj49gny4o

    Doing it against French opposition could be a big mistake for the legitimacy of the EU.
    It won't ever be ratified so won't come into force. The French are implacably opposed and will be even more so with a right wing president.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 919
    edited January 9

    DavidL said:

    There is, of course, the north and then the real north. I was in a virtual court today with a colleague who lives in deep Aberdeenshire. She has not been able to get out of her house since 31st December. 9 days trapped in her house. That's real north.

    Agreed. IMHO the North starts at Kyle of Lochalsh and is north of Aviemore and Aberdeen. The midlands are south of there and north of Stirling and Oban. I am a southerner from Ayrshire, as opposed to a southron, who lives south of a line from Gretna to Newcastle.
    And here I am in Inverness, at sea level, with a fair bit of snow on the ground but certainly not trapped inside!

    Though I'm originally from Leeds so, uniquely, I'm from both 'Norths'
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,055
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    EU reaches South America trade deal after 25 years of talks
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqzj49gny4o

    Doing it against French opposition could be a big mistake for the legitimacy of the EU.
    It won't ever be ratified so won't come into force. The French are implacably opposed and will be even more so with a right wing president.
    The commission apparently intends for it to come into force without waiting for ratification.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2026/01/09/ue-mercosur-la-commission-envisage-une-entree-en-vigueur-du-texte-sans-attendre-la-ratification-du-parlement_6661193_3234.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,669
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    If you ignore the politicised commentary and just watch this clip, this is a good example of the kind of passive-aggressive "observation" that ICE and other law enforcement officers have to deal with now. In this case it doesn't escalate and the woman backs down but it's easy to see how these situations can get out of hand:

    https://x.com/camhigby/status/2009543061492355438

    The algorithm definitely likes you William if you start being sent these clips/conversations, unless you were seeking them out. They are armed to the teeth for an arrest of an illegal immigrant? What a country. They are a long way down the third Reich trail.
    That's just ICE * goons trying to intimidate a member of the public from standing on her constitutional rights in the USA.

    * I'm assuming ICE.
    You need to join the world of common sense instead of 'constitutional rights'.

    Sticking a camera in the faces of a bunch of heavily armed stressed people is not sensible.

    If you want to try go and do it to some of the Notts plods to see what reaction you get.
    They probably aren’t going to put three bullets in your head, though.
    Which is even more of a reason not to do the same with the US variety.
    Democracy depends on some people having the courage to stand up for their rights. The freedoms you currently enjoy were delivered by the kind of people currently protesting in America and Iran.
    And you'll get both sides of the US political divide saying that and thinking that they're the ones standing up for their rights and think they're entitled, in the name of freedom, to flout the laws the other side passes.
    I can't follow this. Are you suggesting that observing law enforcement is flouting an American law? Either you're mistaken, or you're right and America is already a fascist state.
    Whatever horrors Trump perpetrates Richard will react with a variation of "but the Dems ...". It borders on the pathological.
    Yes, I manage to see beyond the mindless "my side good, their side bad" cheerleading too many people, on either side, engage in.

    Perhaps you would prefer if I joined the chorus to spout the likes of:

    Joe Biden isn't senile he's always had his funny ways / absent mind / stutter
    Hunter Biden is a victim of a political witch hunt.
    Joe Biden will never give Hunter a presidential pardon.
    Vance is a furniture shagger, hahaha

    and on and on.

    What I'd like to see in the USA is honest, competent, centrist government - that's not been on offer for the last decade so I'll happily continue to blame the lot of them. The only variance is which side is currently the more dishonest, incompetent and extreme - currently its Trump's gang.
    I know you're no Trump supporter. But to say that him and his crew are just like the Dems is 'both sides' ism at its most ludicrous imo.
    Trump's gang certainly exceed the Dems in thuggery, corruption and economic incompetence.

    I don't think there's much difference between them on dishonesty and the Dems have the greater political incompetence.

    The aggravating thing is that the Dems had several good possible candidates in 2024 yet managed to fack up their candidate process, twice.

    The most interesting aspect, from a disinterested viewpoint, is how much more 'kinetic' the Trump administration is compared to what other administrations have been, including the first Trump.

    Agree with the things being done or not, its undoubted that things are being done.
    That's one consequence of a massive power grab and not respecting checks and balances. You can do a shed load of stuff. But note how it excludes anything that requires complexity or sustained engagement with anybody else.
    It is also because the "checks and balances" are administered by HoR, Senate and SCOTUS, all of which are Trump puppets. Hence they have no effect and why this administration is so "kinetic".

    Checks and balances are only as good as the people checking and balancing.
Sign In or Register to comment.