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An update on Donald 'no more wars' Trump’s chances of winning the Nobel peace prize

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  • glwglw Posts: 10,655

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    Today? No. But if Trump does use military force against Greenland or Canada, which he has said are options, I would certainly expect that to be the end of any alliance with the US, the US out of NATO, and US bases closed in the UK.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,621

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,063

    Tanks are seen near the presidential palace in Venezuela.
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2007408476318728386

    Where did they buy their tanks from, Temu?

    That’s an armoured car. It’s got wheels

    V-150?
    "Wait a minute, wait a minute. What have we here, gentlemen? The Venezuelans have themselves an RV..."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,726
    s

    Tanks are seen near the presidential palace in Venezuela.
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2007408476318728386

    Where did they buy their tanks from, Temu?

    That’s an armoured car. It’s got wheels

    V-150?
    "Wait a minute, wait a minute. What have we here, gentlemen? The Venezuelans have themselves an RV..."
    https://www.diehardminute.com/episodes/minute-074-the-police-have-themselves-an-rv/
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,667
    A little bit of history on the Monroe doctrine:
    British foreign policy was compatible with the general objective of the Monroe Doctrine, and Britain offered to declare a joint statement concerning the doctrine. The British feared their trade with the Americas would be damaged if other European powers further colonized it. In fact, for many years after the doctrine took effect, Britain, through the Royal Navy, was the sole nation enforcing it, as the United States Navy was a comparatively small force.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

    So Britain and the US were working together, with both nations benefitting from the cooperation. Incidentally, the US promised not to interfere in European affairs as part of the doctrine.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,167
    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
  • Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    Sorry, I don't know, but truth to tell, I am not particularly interested in her views. Although they might be quite amusing, depending on how many knots she ties herself up in.

    I suspect the Lib Dems' anti Trump anti US pro EU stance might turn out to be a good one. It's clear, easy to understand, and fits the mindset of quite a number of voters.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,945
    edited January 3

    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
    Marine le Pen is squarely against Trump. One of the few continental politicians aligned with the Lib Dems on this.

    https://x.com/mlp_officiel/status/2007439876484989196
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,164
    glw said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    Today? No. But if Trump does use military force against Greenland or Canada, which he has said are options, I would certainly expect that to be the end of any alliance with the US, the US out of NATO, and US bases closed in the UK.
    Perfectly good point of course. EuroNATO/Canada/EU have no good options as and when the USA becomes an actual adversary. They have no good options now, but don't have to make the decisive choice between unacceptable alternatives. So they won't until they absolutely have to.

    Expect Russia to play games with this. Suppose for example they occupy a single small area of a Baltic state - a matter of a few unpopulated square kilometres, but no more.........

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,687

    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
    Or (like SKS) not supporting Trump but not slagging him off either. This one is easy peasy for Davey, Badenoch and Polanski.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,164
    Rangers!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,968
    edited January 3

    A little bit of history on the Monroe doctrine:
    British foreign policy was compatible with the general objective of the Monroe Doctrine, and Britain offered to declare a joint statement concerning the doctrine. The British feared their trade with the Americas would be damaged if other European powers further colonized it. In fact, for many years after the doctrine took effect, Britain, through the Royal Navy, was the sole nation enforcing it, as the United States Navy was a comparatively small force.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

    So Britain and the US were working together, with both nations benefitting from the cooperation. Incidentally, the US promised not to interfere in European affairs as part of the doctrine.

    A other bit of history for you, Jim.

    Monroe fixed the border with Canada by treaty; he did not claim it as a US state.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,201
    algarkirk said:

    Rangers!

    No more Nancies at Celtic Park I feel.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,740
    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    He's completely correct and the more deranged Trump is becoming the more obvious it becomes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,300
    edited January 3

    fitalass said:

    Well done to SkyNews for noticing that we are now on day three of an amber warning for snow and ice up here in the North East of Scotland. Its been a few years since we have seen such a heavy dump of snow that has made our local roads so impassable in parts of Aberdeenshire and that have also left the council gritters having to concentrate full time on trying to keep the main routes open and passable during the day while local village roads are still heavily impacted with snow despite being gritted a couple of times a day. A big shout out to our local farmers for doing their bit to help in this wintry weather, you know the weather is bad when you can say you have not seen a car on the road after dusk in our patch for 48 hours.

    I’m surprised that Anus Sarwar and Jackass Baillie haven’t blamed the SNP for the snow.
    Commiserations - we sometimes get dumps like that in the less urban parts of Lothian/Borders but this time only a few flakes. But maybe the problem is Sky News itself. It's been on [edit] BBC News website on 1, 2 and 3 January. What's that you ask? No, not Slab going SNPBaad, I mean the Doric snow coverage.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,167

    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
    Marine le Pen is squarely against Trump. One of the few continental politicians aligned with the Lib Dems on this.

    https://x.com/mlp_officiel/status/2007439876484989196
    Why do you Eurofederalists insist on posting in French? Us Francophobes struggle to translate after our unclassified French O level performance.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,250
    Genuine LOL.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    He's completely correct and the more deranged Trump is becoming the more obvious it becomes.
    The idea we cannot align with the EU on a position without it meaning no influence is silly, and the standard overdone take which would also do the 'the EU no longer cares about what happens in the UK' nonsense - the EU is not that stupid as to find a major power on its doorstep irrelevant.

    I think that kind of attitude does the EU a disservice, so it is weird it is used in its defence.

    And that ignores the difficulty the EU has thesedays in getting unified positions with Hungary in its midst.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    Well, certainly an interesting move by the Trump administration. When was the last time a Head of State was taken in such a way? Even the most vulnerable ones are usually left alone, don't want to open the door to this type of thing.

    Didn't Maduro once lose a legislative election, so he just created a new assembly to rewrite the constitution to ignore them or something? Slightly more creative than your typical autocrat I suppose.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,743
    algarkirk said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    Today? No. But if Trump does use military force against Greenland or Canada, which he has said are options, I would certainly expect that to be the end of any alliance with the US, the US out of NATO, and US bases closed in the UK.
    Perfectly good point of course. EuroNATO/Canada/EU have no good options as and when the USA becomes an actual adversary. They have no good options now, but don't have to make the decisive choice between unacceptable alternatives. So they won't until they absolutely have to.

    Expect Russia to play games with this. Suppose for example they occupy a single small area of a Baltic state - a matter of a few unpopulated square kilometres, but no more.........

    Indeed, I would expect any Russian action to be "boiling the frog". In fact they have already started it with drone overflights, cable severance, etc. The only response should be disproportionate force. The Finns should seize that ship, tow it out to sea, and subject it to gunnery practice.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,885

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Really ? Where's the stand up to Putin ? The boots on the ground ? The no fly zone ? If Europe was looking after its own interests this is what it would be doing instead of coat trailing Trump.
    Just because they haven’t done what you want them to do doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.
    Oh theyre doing something but just nowhere near enough. Europe is just a spineless mess with no leadership.
    Great, so you are retracting your earlier claim that Europe is “just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do“.
    That's exactly what they are doing. If they were in control of the situation Trump would be listening to them. You seem to think Europe making warm noises and sending a bit of cash is masterly leadership. It's not, they are just spectators waiting for something to happen.
    I didn't say it was masterly leadership. I said they're not “just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do“. They are sending bucket loads of cash. They have repeatedly pushed back hard against Trump's attempts to sell out Ukraine, which is part of why none of Trump's Putin-friendly proposed peace plans have happened.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    That may yet happen, but let’s be honest, how many people actually care about the abduction of Maduro?
    If Maduro had been struck by lightning, or offed by one of his fellow pushers, or eaten by a shark, I'd be very happy.

    I am uneasy at the idea of world leaders being kidnapped because other world leaders don't like them.

    I can see too many ways that would go wrong.
    It's a matter of wider consequences rather than caring about the absolute shit that is Maduro.

    A bit like how some people have been very keen for a more multi-polar world, when even if that might have some benefits, duelling superpowers also comes with considerably more risks, and even more regional powers to be more belligerent and unstable.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,533
    edited January 3
    kle4 said:

    Well, certainly an interesting move by the Trump administration. When was the last time a Head of State was taken in such a way? Even the most vulnerable ones are usually left alone, don't want to open the door to this type of thing.

    Didn't Maduro once lose a legislative election, so he just created a new assembly to rewrite the constitution to ignore them or something? Slightly more creative than your typical autocrat I suppose.

    From Wikipedia, it's not very common:

    2017 - The Gambia (ECOWAS)
    2011 - Libya (Coalition)
    2002 - Iraq (Coalition)
    2001 - Afghanistan (Coalition)
    1994 - Haiti (USA, Argentina, Poland)
    1990 - Kuwait (Iraq)
    1989 - Panama (USA)
    1983 - Grenada (USA)
    1982 - Falklands (Argentina)
    and so ad infinitum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_and_government_deposed_by_foreign_powers_in_the_20th_and_21st_century
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,244
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    That may yet happen, but let’s be honest, how many people actually care about the abduction of Maduro?
    If Maduro had been struck by lightning, or offed by one of his fellow pushers, or eaten by a shark, I'd be very happy.

    I am uneasy at the idea of world leaders being kidnapped because other world leaders don't like them.

    I can see too many ways that would go wrong.
    The USA has plenty of form, for getting rid of foreign leaders it dislikes, over the past two centuries.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,124
    kle4 said:

    Well, certainly an interesting move by the Trump administration. When was the last time a Head of State was taken in such a way? Even the most vulnerable ones are usually left alone, don't want to open the door to this type of thing.

    Didn't Maduro once lose a legislative election, so he just created a new assembly to rewrite the constitution to ignore them or something? Slightly more creative than your typical autocrat I suppose.

    The man who failed to steal an election has kidnapped the man who successfully stole an election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, certainly an interesting move by the Trump administration. When was the last time a Head of State was taken in such a way? Even the most vulnerable ones are usually left alone, don't want to open the door to this type of thing.

    Didn't Maduro once lose a legislative election, so he just created a new assembly to rewrite the constitution to ignore them or something? Slightly more creative than your typical autocrat I suppose.

    From Wikipedia:

    2017 - The Gambia (ECOWAS)
    2011 - Libya (Coalition)
    2002 - Iraq (Coalition)
    2001 - Afghanistan (Coalition)
    1994 - Haiti (USA, Argentina, Poland)
    1990 - Kuwait (Iraq)
    1989 - Panama (USA)
    1983 - Grenada (USA)
    1982 - Falklands (Argentina)
    and so ad infinitum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_and_government_deposed_by_foreign_powers_in_the_20th_and_21st_century
    I was thinking more in a fly in and take them style, but still a fairly limited list.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,945
    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,624

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    It sounds like Corbyn wanting to establish the facts on Salisbury before condemning Russia.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,891

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    https://theintercept.com/2025/12/01/honduras-hernandez-pardon-trump-venezuela-drugs/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,167
    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, certainly an interesting move by the Trump administration. When was the last time a Head of State was taken in such a way? Even the most vulnerable ones are usually left alone, don't want to open the door to this type of thing.

    Didn't Maduro once lose a legislative election, so he just created a new assembly to rewrite the constitution to ignore them or something? Slightly more creative than your typical autocrat I suppose.

    From Wikipedia, it's not very common:

    2017 - The Gambia (ECOWAS)
    2011 - Libya (Coalition)
    2002 - Iraq (Coalition)
    2001 - Afghanistan (Coalition)
    1994 - Haiti (USA, Argentina, Poland)
    1990 - Kuwait (Iraq)
    1989 - Panama (USA)
    1983 - Grenada (USA)
    1982 - Falklands (Argentina)
    and so ad infinitum.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heads_of_state_and_government_deposed_by_foreign_powers_in_the_20th_and_21st_century
    Iraq was 2003.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,167
    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    Hutton is an impressive and quite high profile Centrist Economist and former Observer journalist from my side of the fence. I can't argue with anything he writes in that X post.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,167

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    Mandy Rice-Davies is working overtime today.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    Doesn't the North Korean government apparently sell a lot of drugs among other crimes (like counterfitting currency) to help fund their various activities? Kim Jong Un had best be careful.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,559
    fitalass said:

    Well done to SkyNews for noticing that we are now on day three of an amber warning for snow and ice up here in the North East of Scotland. Its been a few years since we have seen such a heavy dump of snow that has made our local roads so impassable in parts of Aberdeenshire and that have also left the council gritters having to concentrate full time on trying to keep the main routes open and passable during the day while local village roads are still heavily impacted with snow despite being gritted a couple of times a day. A big shout out to our local farmers for doing their bit to help in this wintry weather, you know the weather is bad when you can say you have not seen a car on the road after dusk in our patch for 48 hours.

    Weather update from New Pitsligo: please make it stop...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,244

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    Hutton is an impressive and quite high profile Centrist Economist and former Observer journalist from my side of the fence. I can't argue with anything he writes in that X post.
    The implication is that anything the EU says has any bearing on the situation. That is what makes Hutton’s post pretty silly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,250
    edited January 3
    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    So, let me see if I have this right, Trump has invaded a sovereign country and kidnapped their elected leader because of Brexit?

    Does it ever occur to Mr Hutton that Trump doesn't give a flying F what we say or do about anything that he chooses to say or do and our views on this are utterly irrelevant, almost as irrelevant as Brexit to anything happening in the real world?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    edited January 3

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    Also, I cannot wait for the leaked whatsapp chats on this one.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,124

    fitalass said:

    Well done to SkyNews for noticing that we are now on day three of an amber warning for snow and ice up here in the North East of Scotland. Its been a few years since we have seen such a heavy dump of snow that has made our local roads so impassable in parts of Aberdeenshire and that have also left the council gritters having to concentrate full time on trying to keep the main routes open and passable during the day while local village roads are still heavily impacted with snow despite being gritted a couple of times a day. A big shout out to our local farmers for doing their bit to help in this wintry weather, you know the weather is bad when you can say you have not seen a car on the road after dusk in our patch for 48 hours.

    Weather update from New Pitsligo: please make it stop...
    No snow in Airedale. Just glorious sunshine.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,656

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    Hutton is an impressive and quite high profile Centrist Economist and former Observer journalist from my side of the fence. I can't argue with anything he writes in that X post.
    No, he’s wrong. We don’t need to be in the EU to speak with one voice with our European brothers and sisters.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    edited January 3
    As messed up as this whole situation is in geopolitical terms, if it were possible to divorce from all that worry and consequence there would be some humour in the US just marching Maduro up to a regular courthouse, and seeing him try the old Charles I strategy in insisting they have no legal authority to judge him (didn't work for Saddam either, or Charles I for that matter).
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,374

    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
    Marine le Pen is squarely against Trump. One of the few continental politicians aligned with the Lib Dems on this.

    https://x.com/mlp_officiel/status/2007439876484989196
    The French right - Gaullism - has always defined itself against America. A dustinctive feature, and quite unlike UK and Germany, for instance.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,885

    kle4 said:

    Well, certainly an interesting move by the Trump administration. When was the last time a Head of State was taken in such a way? Even the most vulnerable ones are usually left alone, don't want to open the door to this type of thing.

    Didn't Maduro once lose a legislative election, so he just created a new assembly to rewrite the constitution to ignore them or something? Slightly more creative than your typical autocrat I suppose.

    The man who failed to steal an election has kidnapped the man who successfully stole an election.
    Jealousy?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,032

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
    I expect Putin to use the Venezuelan distraction to kill more innocent Ukrainians.
    Trump has conducted a Special Military Operation, Putin should be all for it.
    Hey, Putin, want to know what a special military operation actually looks like when it’s done properly?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    Hutton is an impressive and quite high profile Centrist Economist and former Observer journalist from my side of the fence. I can't argue with anything he writes in that X post.
    No, he’s wrong. We don’t need to be in the EU to speak with one voice with our European brothers and sisters.

    The idea is presumably we have no influence with them whilst not being on the inside, but that's obviously not true because there have already been occasions since Brexit when statements etc have been issued including us and EU representatives. So the argument may be more that we don't have sufficient influence being on the outside, which is more reasonable, but doesn't really have much bearing on this matter since it is such an aggressive 'don't care what anyone else thinks' move, that the UK having a better inline with EU foreign affairs offficials surely would make little additional impact.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,418
    The Mad King tells Fox News that Mexico is on his list
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,533
    The German Arms purchase list of items that have to be approved by Parliament (expenditures over X million iirc, which may be 25 million Euro). The total of these is 83 billion Euro between Sept 25 to Dec 2026.

    https://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/19/ICLEAN-MG_9973-2.pdf

    Politico article, but paywalled. They note that the USA is only getting 8% or 6.8 billion; 75% is Patriot.

    The most interesting missing item seems to me to be the F35 Type As, which would be to replace Tornados as carrying US nuclear bombs based in Europe, which Germany is signed up to do under I think NATO. Next year, perhaps.

    Related commentary but paywalled:
    https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/2025/09/germanys-80b-defense-shopping-list-leaves-little-room-for-us-weapons-00574626
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King tells Fox News that Mexico is on his list

    Baja California has California right in its name, so it must come to the USA.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,655
    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,302
    edited January 3
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The Mad King tells Fox News that Mexico is on his list

    Baja California has California right in its name, so it must come to the USA.
    All that prime real estate in Cabo San Lucas.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,489
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    So, let me see if I have this right, Trump has invaded a sovereign country and kidnapped their elected leader because of Brexit?

    Does it ever occur to Mr Hutton that Trump doesn't give a flying F what we say or do about anything that he chooses to say or do and our views on this are utterly irrelevant, almost as irrelevant as Brexit to anything happening in the real world?
    Come on David, you well know that Hutton is most definitely NOT saying: "Trump has invaded a sovereign country and kidnapped their elected leader because of Brexit".

    Fair enough to attack Hutton's view, but attack what he actually said, not something you have just made up.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,374
    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    More likely to empower Xi and Putin. Spheres of influence, and all that.
    I fear Farage's apologetics for Trump, and his history of repeating Kremlin talking-points, makes him a rather suspect commentator.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,726
    kle4 said:

    As messed up as this whole situation is in geopolitical terms, if it were possible to divorce from all that worry and consequence there would be some humour in the US just marching Maduro up to a regular courthouse, and seeing him try the old Charles I strategy in insisting they have no legal authority to judge him (didn't work for Saddam either, or Charles I for that matter).

    Or Noriega
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,010

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    Hutton is an impressive and quite high profile Centrist Economist and former Observer journalist from my side of the fence. I can't argue with anything he writes in that X post.
    Hutton isn't an economist. He's an economic journalist and a political activist. Very different. As far as I can see his education in academics economics stopped at undergraduate level, and economics is a profession where you need a graduate degree to have any credibility at all these days - the advanced concepts you need to understand the models which much of modern economics is based on and the econometrics you need to analyse them are just not covered in undergraduate courses. His visiting professorships likely won't have given him those tools or required him to publish serious academic economics work either.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,945

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    More likely to empower Xi and Putin. Spheres of influence, and all that.
    I fear Farage's apologetics for Trump, and his history of repeating Kremlin talking-points, makes him a rather suspect commentator.
    Do you really think that they were constrained by Western finger wagging in the past? Putin annexed Crimea before Trump was a political figure.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,885
    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    Except, as far as we know, the same Chávezite regime is still in power in Venezuela...??? He's got Maduro, but he's not toppled the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    More likely to empower Xi and Putin. Spheres of influence, and all that.
    I fear Farage's apologetics for Trump, and his history of repeating Kremlin talking-points, makes him a rather suspect commentator.
    We've been moving back towards a might makes right approach for several years, even before Trump was re-elected. Territorial conquest is back on the cards as an open motivation, spheres of influence definitely are (right at the start of the Ukraine war people in effect said Ukraine was not allowed to be sovereign and make its own choices, as Russia was right to be upset at NATO 'encroachment'), and maybe even targeted kidnappings and assassinations.

    I told someone 2026 was going to be a better year than 2025 the other day. I may need to revise that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,489
    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    In other news: night follows day, and the Pope is a catholic.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,945

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    A robust response.

    noah kulwin
    @nkulw
    57m
    Trump just pardoned a convicted narco-president in honduras!!!! You don’t care about drug trafficking you just care about slipping your tongue up Don’s asshole

    https://x.com/nkulw/status/2007450885501182215?s=20
    Where's the contradiction? It's like saying that because you pardon one person you can no longer prosecute any criminals.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,690
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Europe is waiting to see how badly Trump betrays them over Ukraine.
    In the meantime, half of Europe is rearming as quickly as it can. The rest (including us) need to catch up.
    Half is a bit of a stretch. I'd make it closer to a third (Poland, Germany, Baltics, Scandinavia).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    Except, as far as we know, the same Chávezite regime is still in power in Venezuela...??? He's got Maduro, but he's not toppled the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela.
    Betting on the regime collapsing, or coming to favourable terms quickly I guess, although I'd assume even as hated as Maduro is some of the public who hates him would still have some reservations about all this.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,063

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    But you do get to avoid justice for girl trafficking in the United States because you live in the White House?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,130

    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    Except, as far as we know, the same Chávezite regime is still in power in Venezuela...??? He's got Maduro, but he's not toppled the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela.
    According to the BBC, Trump says:
    "They [Venezuela] have a vice president, as you know," he says. "I don't know what kind of an election that was, but, you know, the election of Maduro was a disgrace."

    Please could someone with access to the Internet find out what kind of an election it was, and email the White House?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    edited January 3

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    A robust response.

    noah kulwin
    @nkulw
    57m
    Trump just pardoned a convicted narco-president in honduras!!!! You don’t care about drug trafficking you just care about slipping your tongue up Don’s asshole

    https://x.com/nkulw/status/2007450885501182215?s=20
    It's like saying that because you pardon one person you can no longer prosecute any criminals.
    Who you pardon could indeed call that into question. Pardon a bunch of crypto fraudsters or a corrupt congressman for instance and what would even be the point of prosecuting any?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,968
    kle4 said:

    As messed up as this whole situation is in geopolitical terms, if it were possible to divorce from all that worry and consequence there would be some humour in the US just marching Maduro up to a regular courthouse, and seeing him try the old Charles I strategy in insisting they have no legal authority to judge him (didn't work for Saddam either, or Charles I for that matter).

    That didn't turn out too well for the regicides in the end, though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,945
    https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/2007435508767486395

    Russian "Z-bloggers" are very worried about Venezuela and oil prices:

    "This is not f***ing funny, you underdeveloped idiots. Soon it won’t even be profitable for us to extract oil. In a couple of months we’ll starve to death. This is checkmate for the entire economy of the underdeveloped traitor Putin. May he die, a real bastard. A talentless, stinking piece of f***ot trash. This is a nightmare for us. They will drop the price of oil below the floor and take over the entire market. Now, on top of everything else, they’ll also have oil. This is a total f***ing disaster. And we’ll be left without internet, drowning in taxes, hugging our f***ing oil. The political leadership of our country needs to be killed. They are inherently insane. And they are traitors. They should be hanged. The Americans have just extended their existence for several more centuries, while ours will end in a month."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    As messed up as this whole situation is in geopolitical terms, if it were possible to divorce from all that worry and consequence there would be some humour in the US just marching Maduro up to a regular courthouse, and seeing him try the old Charles I strategy in insisting they have no legal authority to judge him (didn't work for Saddam either, or Charles I for that matter).

    That didn't turn out too well for the regicides in the end, though.
    Indeed, but it didn't help him any in the moment either. It's the equivalent of those videos of drunk people getting arrested crying out 'No, you're not' when it happens, even if the aftermath down the line might be more favourable for them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,656

    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    In other news: night follows day, and the Pope is a catholic.
    Yes, that Larry David fainting gif will be working overtime now.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,885
    edited January 3
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    Except, as far as we know, the same Chávezite regime is still in power in Venezuela...??? He's got Maduro, but he's not toppled the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela.
    Betting on the regime collapsing, or coming to favourable terms quickly I guess, although I'd assume even as hated as Maduro is some of the public who hates him would still have some reservations about all this.
    If there's one thing that's a good bet to get the Venezuelan people rallying around the Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela, it's this action by the US. If there's one thing that's a good bet to get the Iranian people rallying around the regime here, it's bombing by the US (or Israel).

    I hope we see real change in Venezuela, but I am not an optimistic man.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,624
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
    Or (like SKS) not supporting Trump but not slagging him off either. This one is easy peasy for Davey, Badenoch and Polanski.
    It's a matter of timing for Starmer. I think he should pivot on 3rd November this year.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,656
    The BBC using that soft power reporting on Iran.

    Pushing the regimes line against Trump.

    Quality reporting

    ‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.

    "Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2057md3gvro
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,945
    edited January 3
    It's looking increasingly likely that Trump's foreign policy will bring about the end of far-left dictatorships in Latin America, the collapse of the Iranian theocracy, and the downfall of Putin's dictatorial regime in Russia.

    The US has not looked this strong on the world stage since the end of the Cold War.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    I think we should start preparing ourselves mentally for doing so so done point in the future. Suppose the US seizes Greenland while Trump repeats statements about Canada becoming the 51st State in the context of the US National Security Strategy seeking to interfere in domestic British politics?

    Having US troops on British soil would then constitute a security threat.
    The USA is now an ally in name only. Their power means we will never sever ties, but that 50% Americans support treating their allies like shit (moreso Canada than us) whilst speaking well of enemies, shows that, inasmuch as interests ever aligned, they no longer do.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,167

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    A robust response.

    noah kulwin
    @nkulw
    57m
    Trump just pardoned a convicted narco-president in honduras!!!! You don’t care about drug trafficking you just care about slipping your tongue up Don’s asshole

    https://x.com/nkulw/status/2007450885501182215?s=20
    Where's the contradiction? It's like saying that because you pardon one person you can no longer prosecute any criminals.
    Double standards, perchance?
  • TresTres Posts: 3,367

    Tres said:

    Lol - commercial radio playing American Idiot by Green Day, DJ slips in a little aside on the fade out 'seems particularly relevant today'. Sell Global Radio stock if anyone tells Trump.

    DJ worried about the cost of coke spiralling.
    stuck in the 80s aintcha?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    It's looking increasingly likely that Trump's foreign policy will bring about the end of far-left dictatorships in Latin America, the collapse of the Iranian theocracy, and the downfall of Putin's dictatorial regime in Russia.

    If he does that then yes, he can have the Nobel prize.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,167

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    More likely to empower Xi and Putin. Spheres of influence, and all that.
    I fear Farage's apologetics for Trump, and his history of repeating Kremlin talking-points, makes him a rather suspect commentator.
    Do you really think that they were constrained by Western finger wagging in the past? Putin annexed Crimea before Trump was a political figure.
    He did nothing to, ah, "persuade" Russia to withdraw from Crimea (and Donbas) during his first term.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,357

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    A robust response.

    noah kulwin
    @nkulw
    57m
    Trump just pardoned a convicted narco-president in honduras!!!! You don’t care about drug trafficking you just care about slipping your tongue up Don’s asshole

    https://x.com/nkulw/status/2007450885501182215?s=20
    Where's the contradiction? It's like saying that because you pardon one person you can no longer prosecute any criminals.
    If you pardon in exchange for $$$ then yeah, you lose any claim to care about morality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    More likely to empower Xi and Putin. Spheres of influence, and all that.
    I fear Farage's apologetics for Trump, and his history of repeating Kremlin talking-points, makes him a rather suspect commentator.
    Do you really think that they were constrained by Western finger wagging in the past? Putin annexed Crimea before Trump was a political figure.
    It is true he did not start the world down this path, and people say he did, but I think it is fair to say he seems to be endorsing that kind of approach openly.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,624
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61

    He's completely correct and the more deranged Trump is becoming the more obvious it becomes.
    The idea we cannot align with the EU on a position without it meaning no influence is silly, and the standard overdone take which would also do the 'the EU no longer cares about what happens in the UK' nonsense - the EU is not that stupid as to find a major power on its doorstep irrelevant.

    I think that kind of attitude does the EU a disservice, so it is weird it is used in its defence.

    And that ignores the difficulty the EU has these days in getting unified positions with Hungary in its midst.
    The EU should make clear, in the Hungarian elections to be held on the 3rd April this year, that if Orban is re-elected, the rest of the EU will ensure that Hungary is sidelined from EU influence and benefits.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,726

    It's looking increasingly likely that Trump's foreign policy will bring about the end of far-left dictatorships in Latin America, the collapse of the Iranian theocracy, and the downfall of Putin's dictatorial regime in Russia.

    The US has not looked this strong on the world stage since the end of the Cold War.

    That’s Dale Brown levels of techno-thriller bullshit.

    Even Clancy pointed out where this kind of crap ends up.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,996

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    I think we should start preparing ourselves mentally for doing so so done point in the future. Suppose the US seizes Greenland while Trump repeats statements about Canada becoming the 51st State in the context of the US National Security Strategy seeking to interfere in domestic British politics?

    Having US troops on British soil would then constitute a security threat.
    Out of interest, and a genuine question, what exactly do we do if they say “no”?

    Are we going to send in troops to round them up? Are we going to cut off their power and then shoot down transporters bringing in supplies? Sadly there is absolutely zero we can do if the US has gone that rogue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186

    ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    More likely to empower Xi and Putin. Spheres of influence, and all that.
    I fear Farage's apologetics for Trump, and his history of repeating Kremlin talking-points, makes him a rather suspect commentator.
    Do you really think that they were constrained by Western finger wagging in the past? Putin annexed Crimea before Trump was a political figure.
    He did nothing to, ah, "persuade" Russia to withdraw from Crimea (and Donbas) during his first term.
    I don't think anyone cared to even try in fairness. The hope was that they'd stop there and it was not worth escalating. After Putin came back for more for several years the West realised that had been a mistake, though weariness anad Trump now mean that we are likely reverting to a 'ok, this time we'll allow it then no more after that we really mean it' approach.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    boulay said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    I think we should start preparing ourselves mentally for doing so so done point in the future. Suppose the US seizes Greenland while Trump repeats statements about Canada becoming the 51st State in the context of the US National Security Strategy seeking to interfere in domestic British politics?

    Having US troops on British soil would then constitute a security threat.
    Out of interest, and a genuine question, what exactly do we do if they say “no”?

    Are we going to send in troops to round them up? Are we going to cut off their power and then shoot down transporters bringing in supplies? Sadly there is absolutely zero we can do if the US has gone that rogue.
    We'll pursue them under the ECHR and then pay £20 billion to fund their lawyers.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,250

    fitalass said:

    Well done to SkyNews for noticing that we are now on day three of an amber warning for snow and ice up here in the North East of Scotland. Its been a few years since we have seen such a heavy dump of snow that has made our local roads so impassable in parts of Aberdeenshire and that have also left the council gritters having to concentrate full time on trying to keep the main routes open and passable during the day while local village roads are still heavily impacted with snow despite being gritted a couple of times a day. A big shout out to our local farmers for doing their bit to help in this wintry weather, you know the weather is bad when you can say you have not seen a car on the road after dusk in our patch for 48 hours.

    Weather update from New Pitsligo: please make it stop...
    Fairliered Jnr. is supposed to be driving from the Broch to Aberdeen this evening for work. Hope he makes it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,533

    glw said:

    From the BBC live feed a few minutes ago.

    "Trump says that the US is going to be "strongly involved" in Venezuela's oil industry moving forward."

    In other news: night follows day, and the Pope is a catholic.
    JD Vance may not agree with the latter :smile: .
  • TresTres Posts: 3,367

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    what about honduras mr glenn, what about HONDURAS
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    Tres said:

    https://x.com/JDVance/status/2007447388697268441

    And PSA for everyone saying this was "illegal":

    Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.

    what about honduras mr glenn, what about HONDURAS
    Gotta convict them before you can pardon them (for cash)*.

    *actually they do pardon people in advance I believe, which is another really weird aspect of the power - I hope ours does not work like theirs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,605
    Taz said:

    The BBC using that soft power reporting on Iran.

    Pushing the regimes line against Trump.

    Quality reporting

    ‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.

    "Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2057md3gvro

    Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.

    I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,302
    Am I right in remembering the US didn't provide the UK with advanced info about their strikes on Iran either?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,605

    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
    To be fair to her she can come down squarely behind Trump. She doesn't have to negotiate the tightrope of supporting Trump without pissing off Putin.
    Marine le Pen is squarely against Trump. One of the few continental politicians aligned with the Lib Dems on this.

    https://x.com/mlp_officiel/status/2007439876484989196
    The French right - Gaullism - has always defined itself against America. A dustinctive feature, and quite unlike UK and Germany, for instance.
    De Gaulle also defined France against the UK and the Anglo Saxon world, not just the USA, vetoing Macmillan's application to join the EEC
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,357
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC using that soft power reporting on Iran.

    Pushing the regimes line against Trump.

    Quality reporting

    ‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.

    "Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2057md3gvro

    Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.

    I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
    That will be tricky for Starmer. I guess he would abstain, and get attacked from both sides, as per usual.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,367

    It's looking increasingly likely that Trump's foreign policy will bring about the end of far-left dictatorships in Latin America, the collapse of the Iranian theocracy, and the downfall of Putin's dictatorial regime in Russia.

    The US has not looked this strong on the world stage since the end of the Cold War.

    awww someone getting all giddy. bet by 1/1/27 you looking as foolish as sandpit
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,357
    boulay said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    I think we should start preparing ourselves mentally for doing so so done point in the future. Suppose the US seizes Greenland while Trump repeats statements about Canada becoming the 51st State in the context of the US National Security Strategy seeking to interfere in domestic British politics?

    Having US troops on British soil would then constitute a security threat.
    Out of interest, and a genuine question, what exactly do we do if they say “no”?

    Are we going to send in troops to round them up? Are we going to cut off their power and then shoot down transporters bringing in supplies? Sadly there is absolutely zero we can do if the US has gone that rogue.
    Of course you can, arrest and deport.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,664
    edited January 3
    boulay said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    I think we should start preparing ourselves mentally for doing so so done point in the future. Suppose the US seizes Greenland while Trump repeats statements about Canada becoming the 51st State in the context of the US National Security Strategy seeking to interfere in domestic British politics?

    Having US troops on British soil would then constitute a security threat.
    Out of interest, and a genuine question, what exactly do we do if they say “no”?

    Are we going to send in troops to round them up? Are we going to cut off their power and then shoot down transporters bringing in supplies? Sadly there is absolutely zero we can do if the US has gone that rogue.
    Quite. The security 'threat' was having them in the first place. Wanting them to leave and them saying 'No' isn't a threat, it's the threat becoming reality.

    We chose to become a US satrapy, without even the rights and protections of being a state. It wasn't presented before the public as an option, it was done by politicians and senior civil servants. We have never had any influence over who the President is or what foreign policy they pursue. Suck it up, because becomjng independent is now not an option for a very long time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,250
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC using that soft power reporting on Iran.

    Pushing the regimes line against Trump.

    Quality reporting

    ‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.

    "Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2057md3gvro

    Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.

    I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
    I honestly think both the UK and France should vote against the US in the Security Council. The Ukraine position is much more complicated because voting for this outrage is not exactly consistent with condemning Russia's illegal invasion of them but they need all the help they can get. They have bigger fish to fry. We don't. We either stand in support of international law or we give up pretending that it means anything.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,186
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC using that soft power reporting on Iran.

    Pushing the regimes line against Trump.

    Quality reporting

    ‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.

    "Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2057md3gvro

    Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.

    I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
    I honestly think both the UK and France should vote against the US in the Security Council. The Ukraine position is much more complicated because voting for this outrage is not exactly consistent with condemning Russia's illegal invasion of them but they need all the help they can get. They have bigger fish to fry. We don't. We either stand in support of international law or we give up pretending that it means anything.
    Probably only 20% of nations think it means anything now anyway, but reducing the percentage further and abandoning even a polite fiction is still a negative.
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