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An update on Donald 'no more wars' Trump’s chances of winning the Nobel peace prize

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,527
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Quite.

    We are reverting to the Cold War, but with the rules of engagement governed by even more self-interest than ideology.
    Pretty sure every Cold War POTUS would have informed his allies of any impending action as well as the USSR, indeed probably have tried to inveigle said allies into any shitstorm. So much for the value of the special chemistry between Trump and SKS.
    Venezuala is over the other side of the planet not in Europe and not a British overseas territory, what on earth could Starmer do even if he was informed of the US action?
    Not a lot.

    NL will be interested, however. They have territories close (20 to 50 miles) to the coast of Venezuela.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    So where does this leave us? (I.e the UK). Europe has been shown to have been totally irrelevant, so I guess our only option is to go along with the US..

    It leaves us seriously adrift. We've cut our ties with Europe and are stuck in a performative alliance with a state acting against our interests.
    Trump's cowardice against Putin is against our interests.

    Not sure how this morning's actions affect our interests either way?
    True. This morning's actions don't materially make the UK's position worse.

    Contrary to your position, the UK as an open, middle ranking, somewhat prosperous country benefits from the rule of law internationally. If the rule of law is gone, it has to deal with the situation it finds itself in, but it doesn't have good cards to play right now, hence the continuing abusive relationship with the United States.
    The rule of law, internationally, hasn’t gone. It never was.
    I disagree, at least as far as the UK's interest is concerned. The UK benefited from a sixty year post War world order and now it no longer does. Hence its suddenly much weakened position internationally.
    And that’s why you opposed the bombing of Belgrade?
    Um. Sometimes you could engage with the point the commentator is making and explain, in your considered opinion, why the UK did, or did not, benefit from the post- War world order?
    Your point is based on a false premise, as my example was intended to illustrate. In any case, the UK was arguably the primary loser of the post-WW2 order.
    The Poles are on the line, and would like a word.
    They did a lot better out of it than the East Prussians.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    Can we assume Europe's response will be more welfare ?

    Now is the time for us to deploy all that soft power we have so heavily invested in
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,577

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Rubio is strongly in favour of this action, yes. Supposedly this is because he sees Venezuela as an important source of support for Cuba - so we might expect to see action against Cuba in the future.

    I think most of the MAGA base is onside because it's been framed as protecting the US border from smuggling - provided there is no US occupation.
    An invasion of Cuba would be popular in Florida but as the Bay of Pigs debacle showed is not a guaranteed success. Any US bodybags being brought home after an invasion there would be a disaster for Trump.

    If Venezuala does not now see the opposition take full control of Caracas and beyond, Trump might also have to enforce a long term US occupation anyway
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    So where does this leave us? (I.e the UK). Europe has been shown to have been totally irrelevant, so I guess our only option is to go along with the US..

    It leaves us seriously adrift. We've cut our ties with Europe and are stuck in a performative alliance with a state acting against our interests.
    Trump's cowardice against Putin is against our interests.

    Not sure how this morning's actions affect our interests either way?
    True. This morning's actions don't materially make the UK's position worse.

    Contrary to your position, the UK as an open, middle ranking, somewhat prosperous country benefits from the rule of law internationally. If the rule of law is gone, it has to deal with the situation it finds itself in, but it doesn't have good cards to play right now, hence the continuing abusive relationship with the United States.
    The rule of law, internationally, hasn’t gone. It never was.
    I disagree, at least as far as the UK's interest is concerned. The UK benefited from a sixty year post War world order and now it no longer does. Hence its suddenly much weakened position internationally.
    And that’s why you opposed the bombing of Belgrade?
    Um. Sometimes you could engage with the point the commentator is making and explain, in your considered opinion, why the UK did, or did not, benefit from the post- War world order?
    Your point is based on a false premise, as my example was intended to illustrate. In any case, the UK was arguably the primary loser of the post-WW2 order.
    The Poles are on the line, and would like a word.
    They did a lot better out of it than the East Prussians.
    Large numbers of Poles were ethnically cleansed, just as the East Prussians and Pomeranians were. And the East Prussians got to go to East Germany where a non-trivial proportion were able to defect to the West via Berlin.

    What did the Poles get that compared to that?

    And how did the U.K. lose out more than either?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,637
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Ah yes - that “Condemnation” again. Very funny!!

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,727
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    So where does this leave us? (I.e the UK). Europe has been shown to have been totally irrelevant, so I guess our only option is to go along with the US..

    It leaves us seriously adrift. We've cut our ties with Europe and are stuck in a performative alliance with a state acting against our interests.
    Trump's cowardice against Putin is against our interests.

    Not sure how this morning's actions affect our interests either way?
    True. This morning's actions don't materially make the UK's position worse.

    Contrary to your position, the UK as an open, middle ranking, somewhat prosperous country benefits from the rule of law internationally. If the rule of law is gone, it has to deal with the situation it finds itself in, but it doesn't have good cards to play right now, hence the continuing abusive relationship with the United States.
    The rule of law, internationally, hasn’t gone. It never was.
    I disagree, at least as far as the UK's interest is concerned. The UK benefited from a sixty year post War world order and now it no longer does. Hence its suddenly much weakened position internationally.
    And that’s why you opposed the bombing of Belgrade?
    Um. Sometimes you could engage with the point the commentator is making and explain, in your considered opinion, why the UK did, or did not, benefit from the post- War world order?
    Your point is based on a false premise, as my example was intended to illustrate. In any case, the UK was arguably the primary loser of the post-WW2 order.
    The Poles are on the line, and would like a word.
    I would hope they wouldn't have been looking for sympathy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    So where does this leave us? (I.e the UK). Europe has been shown to have been totally irrelevant, so I guess our only option is to go along with the US..

    It leaves us seriously adrift. We've cut our ties with Europe and are stuck in a performative alliance with a state acting against our interests.
    Trump's cowardice against Putin is against our interests.

    Not sure how this morning's actions affect our interests either way?
    True. This morning's actions don't materially make the UK's position worse.

    Contrary to your position, the UK as an open, middle ranking, somewhat prosperous country benefits from the rule of law internationally. If the rule of law is gone, it has to deal with the situation it finds itself in, but it doesn't have good cards to play right now, hence the continuing abusive relationship with the United States.
    The rule of law, internationally, hasn’t gone. It never was.
    I disagree, at least as far as the UK's interest is concerned. The UK benefited from a sixty year post War world order and now it no longer does. Hence its suddenly much weakened position internationally.
    And that’s why you opposed the bombing of Belgrade?
    Um. Sometimes you could engage with the point the commentator is making and explain, in your considered opinion, why the UK did, or did not, benefit from the post- War world order?
    Your point is based on a false premise, as my example was intended to illustrate. In any case, the UK was arguably the primary loser of the post-WW2 order.
    The Poles are on the line, and would like a word.
    I’ve got Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania lined up after them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,577

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    This is all the precursor to a Ukrainian settlement which will go much further and wider than we think, even if it isn’t formally recorded. The world is about to be carved up into zones of influence again, and nobody is going to have any say on that other than Putin (with Xi in the background) and Trump.

    Europe is going to have to step up and hold its own.
    If anything Putin's open condemnation of Trump's actions today means Trump will be less likely to accede to Putin's demands for more Ukranian territory in any peace deal. Zelensky can also reject such a deal and Trump can hardly complain without losing face as he would be seen to be kowtowing to a Russian President now openly criticising his actions in Latin America
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890

    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    So where does this leave us? (I.e the UK). Europe has been shown to have been totally irrelevant, so I guess our only option is to go along with the US..

    It leaves us seriously adrift. We've cut our ties with Europe and are stuck in a performative alliance with a state acting against our interests.
    Trump's cowardice against Putin is against our interests.

    Not sure how this morning's actions affect our interests either way?
    True. This morning's actions don't materially make the UK's position worse.

    Contrary to your position, the UK as an open, middle ranking, somewhat prosperous country benefits from the rule of law internationally. If the rule of law is gone, it has to deal with the situation it finds itself in, but it doesn't have good cards to play right now, hence the continuing abusive relationship with the United States.
    The rule of law, internationally, hasn’t gone. It never was.
    I disagree, at least as far as the UK's interest is concerned. The UK benefited from a sixty year post War world order and now it no longer does. Hence its suddenly much weakened position internationally.
    And that’s why you opposed the bombing of Belgrade?
    Um. Sometimes you could engage with the point the commentator is making and explain, in your considered opinion, why the UK did, or did not, benefit from the post- War world order?
    Your point is based on a false premise, as my example was intended to illustrate. In any case, the UK was arguably the primary loser of the post-WW2 order.
    The Poles are on the line, and would like a word.
    I’ve got Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania lined up after them.
    The Czechs and Slovakians are also not too happy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,577

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,345

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    Typo in the last sentence? Should be disinformation I assume?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,301
    edited January 3
    Keir Starmer says he wants to establish facts by *watching Donald Trumps press conference". People said giving him a second state visit was a genius move of strategy - really seems to have paid off. Special relationship - alive and kicking.

    https://x.com/ZackPolanski/status/2007428336012738728?s=20

    Starmer doesn't help himself does he. "I am gonna watch the telly" like the rest of the plebs. The obvious answer is I will speak with the White House in short order.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,059
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    Such a strong relationship that he hasn't got a clue what's going on?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    Such a strong relationship that he hasn't got a clue what's going on?
    That's probably his dementia.

    Oh, sorry, you meant Starmer?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
    Iran next.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,151

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    It makes far more measured sense than the tiresome old masturbatory fantasy nonsense you have been posting all morning.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,157

    Next: Trump and Vance invade the EU in order to restore free speech, halt mass migration, restore democracy, and end the era of woke decadence that has corrupted Europe.
    You heard it here first.

    I don't think that's one for 2026, but who knows.

    Four points:

    1) WRT Venezuela, the most interesting unknown is whether Maduro really is guilty as they plan to charge him. If he is in fact both a drug gang leader (no idea) and also not head of state of a Russia/China (he isn't), unlike Putin, then he is both in the line of fire and sympathy with him will be moderate to say the least.

    2) As Tony Benn used to say 'it's all about the oil'.

    3) It all gives Mark Carney something to think about. IIRC Venezuela was not on the January 2025 Trump first list of sphere of influence targets. They were: Greenland, Canada and Panama.

    4) Trump's 'sphere of influence' policy, while wrong to me, is not impossible except for one thing. The SOIs (to Trump) are: Americas + 51st state of Israel, China, Russia and hinterland, The Rest of Europe. (+ other smaller ones)

    The wrong bit is to regard the Rest of Europe as an adversary. It demotes the other democracy, and twists NATO out of shape. It also places Canada in an impossible position.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bas as Maduro ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,577

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    Such a strong relationship that he hasn't got a clue what's going on?
    Why should he care or need to know what is going on? It is Trump who is going to have to deal with the aftermath in Caracas and try Maduro, why should the UK care what happens much, it is not even on our continent or even in the Commonwealth!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,019
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    A fair bit of South America thought he was a little more interested than he’s shown to be.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,249
    fitalass said:

    Well done to SkyNews for noticing that we are now on day three of an amber warning for snow and ice up here in the North East of Scotland. Its been a few years since we have seen such a heavy dump of snow that has made our local roads so impassable in parts of Aberdeenshire and that have also left the council gritters having to concentrate full time on trying to keep the main routes open and passable during the day while local village roads are still heavily impacted with snow despite being gritted a couple of times a day. A big shout out to our local farmers for doing their bit to help in this wintry weather, you know the weather is bad when you can say you have not seen a car on the road after dusk in our patch for 48 hours.

    I’m surprised that Anus Sarwar and Jackass Baillie haven’t blamed the SNP for the snow.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    https://x.com/AGPamBondi/status/2007428087143686611

    Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, have been indicted in the Southern District of New York. Nicolas Maduro has been charged with Narco-Terrorism Conspiracy, Cocaine Importation Conspiracy, Possession of Machineguns and Destructive Devices, and Conspiracy to Possess Machineguns and Destructive Devices against the United States. They will soon face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts. On behalf of the entire U.S. DOJ, I would like to thank President Trump for having the courage to demand accountability on behalf of the American People, and a huge thank you to our brave military who conducted the incredible and highly successful mission to capture these two alleged international narco traffickers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,019
    edited January 3
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    This is all the precursor to a Ukrainian settlement which will go much further and wider than we think, even if it isn’t formally recorded. The world is about to be carved up into zones of influence again, and nobody is going to have any say on that other than Putin (with Xi in the background) and Trump.

    Europe is going to have to step up and hold its own.
    If anything Putin's open condemnation of Trump's actions today means Trump will be less likely to accede to Putin's demands for more Ukranian territory in any peace deal. Zelensky can also reject such a deal and Trump can hardly complain without losing face as he would be seen to be kowtowing to a Russian President now openly criticising his actions in Latin America
    Depending on exactly what Trump has to say later, today could be a great opportunity for Ukraine and their allies to row in right behind Trump and his operation to rid the world of yet another Russia - supported dictator, one more step on the ladder of removing benign Russian influence outside its own territory.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881
    I think it’s a massive PR win for Trump: it’s an impressive display of US military might, it’s a win, it gives Trump supporters something to crow about, and it stops people talking about Epstein. The downsides (in terms of diplomacy, what happens next in Venezuela, drugs are still winning the War on Drugs) are less obvious to your typical low-information US voter. But is it going to shift many votes at the midterms? Probably not.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,825

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,249

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
    I expect Putin to use the Venezuelan distraction to kill more innocent Ukrainians.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,527
    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    The story is moving quickly:

    Venezuela opposition source says that last night’s operation was a “negotiated exit” agreement between Maduro and the US.

    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2007391482341404938

    Said to be first photo of Maduro in custody.

    https://x.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/2007402548043636884

    Sec Rubio said to have told Sen Mike Lee that the operation was a one-off, with the aim of getting Maduro out to stand trial in the US.

    https://x.com/basedmikelee/status/2007395531023352319

    Can't really see Maduro having negotiated an exit that would see him stand trial in the US?
    Maybe he thinks he's negotiated a trial followed by a pardon, followed by a nice retirement. If Trump won't pardon him the next president might.
    Julian Assange managed it (under Biden, in that case).
    Reportedly (Guardian report of Court proceedings) he was offered one by Trump, if he would go on record as saying Russia was not involved in the Democrat Party emails thing:

    Donald Trump offered Julian Assange a pardon if he would say Russia was not involved in leaking Democratic party emails, a court in London has been told.

    The extraordinary claim was made at Westminster magistrates court before the opening next week of Assange’s legal battle to block attempts to extradite him to the US, where he faces charges for publishing hacked documents. The allegation was denied by the former Republican congressman named by the Assange legal team as a key witness.

    Assange’s lawyers alleged that during a visit to London in August 2017, congressman Dana Rohrabacher * told the WikiLeaks founder that “on instructions from the president, he was offering a pardon or some other way out, if Mr Assange … said Russia had nothing to do with the DNC [Democratic National Committee] leaks.”

    A few hours later, however, Rohrabacher denied the claim, saying he had made the proposal on his own initiative, and that the White House had not endorsed it

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/19/donald-trump-offered-julian-assange-pardon-russia-hack-wikileaks

    (I have no idea, other than I think is exactly the sort of corrupt thing Trump would do, and to note that Rohrabacher seems to have a long term habit of being a useful idiot for Putin:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Rohrabacher )
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The statement from Kaja Kallas was no stronger. The EU is in the same boat as we are.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,148

    Next: Trump and Vance invade the EU in order to restore free speech, halt mass migration, restore democracy, and end the era of woke decadence that has corrupted Europe.
    You heard it here first.

    I wonder what Brussels security arrangements actually are.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,727

    I think it’s a massive PR win for Trump: it’s an impressive display of US military might, it’s a win, it gives Trump supporters something to crow about, and it stops people talking about Epstein. The downsides (in terms of diplomacy, what happens next in Venezuela, drugs are still winning the War on Drugs) are less obvious to your typical low-information US voter. But is it going to shift many votes at the midterms? Probably not.

    That's a fair summary.

    Its not going to reduce the price of eggs or energy and nobody cares about Venezuela.

    To get an electoral boost Trump needs to overthrow the regimes of Iran or Cuba.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,059

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
    I expect Putin to use the Venezuelan distraction to kill more innocent Ukrainians.
    And in turn, Ukraine will use its missiles to destroy even more of the Russian hydrocarbon economy.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
    I expect Putin to use the Venezuelan distraction to kill more innocent Ukrainians.
    Trump has conducted a Special Military Operation, Putin should be all for it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,151

    https://x.com/AGPamBondi/status/2007428087143686611

    Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, have been indicted in the Southern District of New York. Nicolas Maduro has been charged with Narco-Terrorism Conspiracy, Cocaine Importation Conspiracy, Possession of Machineguns and Destructive Devices, and Conspiracy to Possess Machineguns and Destructive Devices against the United States. They will soon face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts. On behalf of the entire U.S. DOJ, I would like to thank President Trump for having the courage to demand accountability on behalf of the American People, and a huge thank you to our brave military who conducted the incredible and highly successful mission to capture these two alleged international narco traffickers.

    Nicolas Maduro is a very bad man and he probably had at least indirect support from drug lords. However the text you have quoted in your post is entirely performative.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    I think it’s a massive PR win for Trump: it’s an impressive display of US military might, it’s a win, it gives Trump supporters something to crow about, and it stops people talking about Epstein. The downsides (in terms of diplomacy, what happens next in Venezuela, drugs are still winning the War on Drugs) are less obvious to your typical low-information US voter. But is it going to shift many votes at the midterms? Probably not.

    That's a fair summary.

    Its not going to reduce the price of eggs or energy and nobody cares about Venezuela.

    To get an electoral boost Trump needs to overthrow the regimes of Iran or Cuba.
    Iran looking shaky and Maduro supplied most of Cuba's oil. Wouldnt rule it out.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,059

    I think it’s a massive PR win for Trump: it’s an impressive display of US military might, it’s a win, it gives Trump supporters something to crow about, and it stops people talking about Epstein. The downsides (in terms of diplomacy, what happens next in Venezuela, drugs are still winning the War on Drugs) are less obvious to your typical low-information US voter. But is it going to shift many votes at the midterms? Probably not.

    It has zero impact on the US economy and "affordability". Plus it pisses off the "no more wars" brigade if it gets A Bit Messy in coming weeks and months.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,680
    edited January 3

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890
    edited January 3

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Was he? Evidence? It does at least make it unlikely Putin accepts any Trump peace plan which means Zelensky won't be pressured to give up more territory
    It’s how international power politics works and has always worked. To envisage that US military action would be taken against a Russian ally without telling them - especially considering the military build-up in the Gulf - is risible.

    It is patently clear Trump is throwing Ukraine to the wolves as a deal to allow him to settle his scores in South America. What did Trump and Putin talk about the other week do you think? Maybe Putin gave him Maduro - and made it clear to Maduro that he’s gone. On the proviso Trump gets him and no more.

    Trump gets his press conference and a “victory” and then the world moves on. As it will.

    Trump is a dealer. A trader. This is what this is.
    Bullshit. It is if anything Rubio pushing this action against Maduro most and he is more anti Putin than Trump, much of the MAGA base will also not be happy at this US intervention overseas in Caracas just as they don't want any intervention in Ukraine.

    The Russian Foreign Ministry have already issued a statement condemning the US actions in Venezuala as a breach of international law and Moscow has made clear it stands by Maduro
    Of course they’d condemn it! The knew about it and agreed with it don’t be surprised to see Ukraine further cut off.

    Your black and white view of international politics is quaint though, I’ll give you that.
    Rubbish, you just said in your last post Putin had agreed to hand Maduro to Trump. This very morning Moscow has made clear it condemns the US invasion and stands by Maduro
    And you believe what politicians, especially Russian ones, tell the cameras? Lol.

    Do you not think they might be doing that thing called…ummm.. what’s it called? Ah yes. Lying!
    You have already proved your posts completely inaccurate this morning. Putin has clearly not agreed Trump can have Maduro, indeed Russia has joined Iran and China in openly condemning the US actions today
    Although TBF I can imagine Putin lying about his emotions (after all he does it all the time) but I can't see what he would gain in this case by attacking Trump. It's Ukraine, the Caucasus and the Baltics he's interested in rather than South America.
    Putin's international influence is dwindling. He needs some line in the sand or he is a busted flush (which he may well be in 2026 anyway).
    I expect Putin to use the Venezuelan distraction to kill more innocent Ukrainians.
    Trump has conducted a Special Military Operation, Putin should be all for it.
    A 3 hour special military operation that appears to have worked much as intended?

    I would see why that would get up Putin's nose as we enter day 1412 of his three day special military operation.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
    So had Joe Biden - was he evil ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645

    Maduro and wife indicted in NY on among other things drug charges.

    We don't think Trump has stitched them up with the Art of the Deal promising them safe passage out of Venzeula only to deploy lawfare?

    Depends if they end up LWOP in ADX Florence Supermax or in a cushy open prison.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,059

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881

    I think it’s a massive PR win for Trump: it’s an impressive display of US military might, it’s a win, it gives Trump supporters something to crow about, and it stops people talking about Epstein. The downsides (in terms of diplomacy, what happens next in Venezuela, drugs are still winning the War on Drugs) are less obvious to your typical low-information US voter. But is it going to shift many votes at the midterms? Probably not.

    It has zero impact on the US economy and "affordability". Plus it pisses off the "no more wars" brigade if it gets A Bit Messy in coming weeks and months.
    I suspect the Trump administration has no plans to put boots on the ground. It may well get messy in Venezuela, but the Trump administration can just ignore that, say it’s someone else’s problem (TM Douglas Adams), and say they’ve got Maduro.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,616
    Marco Rubio is reportedly saying Maduro will stand trial in US courts.

    Which means it’s now the US administration’s position that US courts can hold foreign presidents, but not the US president, accountable for crimes.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3mbjajb7jss2b

    It also sets an intrresting precedent for other countries to engage in kidnapping foreign leaders in order to put them on trial.

    No wonder Putin doesn't like it.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881
    Taz said:

    Maduro and wife indicted in NY on among other things drug charges.

    We don't think Trump has stitched them up with the Art of the Deal promising them safe passage out of Venzeula only to deploy lawfare?

    Depends if they end up LWOP in ADX Florence Supermax or in a cushy open prison.
    The Ghislaine Maxwell treatment with their own specially prepared meals?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,952

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bas as Maduro ?
    You're right.
    Maduro is of little consequence to the UK. "As far as the UK is concerned", Trump is worse.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881
    Foxy said:

    Marco Rubio is reportedly saying Maduro will stand trial in US courts.

    Which means it’s now the US administration’s position that US courts can hold foreign presidents, but not the US president, accountable for crimes.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3mbjajb7jss2b

    It also sets an intrresting precedent for other countries to engage in kidnapping foreign leaders in order to put them on trial.

    No wonder Putin doesn't like it.

    Putin would have loved to have kidnapped Zelenskyy and put him on (show) trial. I think Putin will like the precedent set here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,301
    edited January 3
    Foxy said:

    Marco Rubio is reportedly saying Maduro will stand trial in US courts.

    Which means it’s now the US administration’s position that US courts can hold foreign presidents, but not the US president, accountable for crimes.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3mbjajb7jss2b

    It also sets an intrresting precedent for other countries to engage in kidnapping foreign leaders in order to put them on trial.

    No wonder Putin doesn't like it.

    Its not a precedent for the US.

    All this will it embolden China or Russia is nonsense. They already do what they want (or think they can get away with) regardless of international law etc. From stealing land from Ukraine and the South China sea to mass enslavement of the Uyghur Muslims and massive war crimes in Ukraine.

    If China thinks they can successfully invade Taiwan they will do. What the US has done in the past is irrevelant. It is what they will do if they tried is all that matters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890

    Foxy said:

    Marco Rubio is reportedly saying Maduro will stand trial in US courts.

    Which means it’s now the US administration’s position that US courts can hold foreign presidents, but not the US president, accountable for crimes.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3mbjajb7jss2b

    It also sets an intrresting precedent for other countries to engage in kidnapping foreign leaders in order to put them on trial.

    No wonder Putin doesn't like it.

    Its not a precedent for the US.
    A shame, as it means we can't kidnap Trump and try him for his tax frauds here.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bas as Maduro ?
    You're right.
    Maduro is of little consequence to the UK. "As far as the UK is concerned", Trump is worse.
    Perhaps you can specify what Trump is doing hat is destroying the UK .
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645
    edited January 3

    Can we assume Europe's response will be more welfare ?

    Now is the time for us to deploy all that soft power we have so heavily invested in
    Thank God we have the BBC

    With all that soft power that comes with it.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,994
    Foxy said:

    Marco Rubio is reportedly saying Maduro will stand trial in US courts.

    Which means it’s now the US administration’s position that US courts can hold foreign presidents, but not the US president, accountable for crimes.

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3mbjajb7jss2b

    It also sets an intrresting precedent for other countries to engage in kidnapping foreign leaders in order to put them on trial.

    No wonder Putin doesn't like it.

    We should be out there kidnapping all the world leaders we can before everyone else then we can trade them with other countries who have the ones we really want, a sort of “top Trumps” game with global politicians or we can extract their ill-gotten gains from them in return for their freedom. Just think of the boost to the economy.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Really ? Where's the stand up to Putin ? The boots on the ground ? The no fly zone ? If Europe was looking after its own interests this is what it would be doing instead of coat trailing Trump.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,550
    HYUFD said:

    'The US has launched an unprovoked and illegal attack on Venezuela.

    This is a brazen attempt to secure control over Venezuelan natural resources.

    It is an act of war that puts the lives of millions of people at risk — and should be condemned by anyone who believes in sovereignty and international law.'
    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/2007397883994112062?s=20

    Ah, well, if Mr Corbyn is strongly against it, that puts a different perspective to it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,952

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Europe is waiting to see how badly Trump betrays them over Ukraine.
    In the meantime, half of Europe is rearming as quickly as it can. The rest (including us) need to catch up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,616

    https://x.com/AGPamBondi/status/2007428087143686611

    Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, have been indicted in the Southern District of New York. Nicolas Maduro has been charged with Narco-Terrorism Conspiracy, Cocaine Importation Conspiracy, Possession of Machineguns and Destructive Devices, and Conspiracy to Possess Machineguns and Destructive Devices against the United States. They will soon face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts. On behalf of the entire U.S. DOJ, I would like to thank President Trump for having the courage to demand accountability on behalf of the American People, and a huge thank you to our brave military who conducted the incredible and highly successful mission to capture these two alleged international narco traffickers.

    Nicolas Maduro is a very bad man and he probably had at least indirect support from drug lords. However the text you have quoted in your post is entirely performative.
    An American court charging someone for illegal possession of firearms in their own country is an interesting charge.

    Will Maduro's defence go for a second ammendment defence?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Really ? Where's the stand up to Putin ? The boots on the ground ? The no fly zone ? If Europe was looking after its own interests this is what it would be doing instead of coat trailing Trump.
    Just because they haven’t done what you want them to do doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Really ? Where's the stand up to Putin ? The boots on the ground ? The no fly zone ? If Europe was looking after its own interests this is what it would be doing instead of coat trailing Trump.
    Just because they haven’t done what you want them to do doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.
    Oh theyre doing something but just nowhere near enough. Europe is just a spineless mess with no leadership.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,680

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
    So had Joe Biden - was he evil ?
    Sigh. When you're asking yourself who of two corrupt malevolent politicians (as in Trump and pre-deposed Maduro) is to be feared the most it's rational to decide it's the one who wields the most power. So on that score, no contest. It's Donald Trump.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,616
    BYD is now the worlds biggest EV automaker, with sales up 28%. Tesla sales down 16% YoY.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jan/02/china-byd-tesla-worlds-biggest-electric-car-seller-elon-musk-donald-trump-ev?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Meanwhile Grok is publishing digitally sexualised pictures of women and girls without their consent. Presumably Farage, Jenrik and Yaxley-Lennon are expressing their disgust and calling for prosecutions or Grok to be banned.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/grok-says-safeguard-lapses-led-images-minors-minimal-clothing-x-2026-01-02/?link_source=ta_bluesky_link&taid=6957d79a3265bb0001754d9f&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,881

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Really ? Where's the stand up to Putin ? The boots on the ground ? The no fly zone ? If Europe was looking after its own interests this is what it would be doing instead of coat trailing Trump.
    Just because they haven’t done what you want them to do doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.
    Oh theyre doing something but just nowhere near enough. Europe is just a spineless mess with no leadership.
    Great, so you are retracting your earlier claim that Europe is “just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do“.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,009

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Quite.

    We are reverting to the Cold War, but with the rules of engagement governed by even more self-interest than ideology.
    Pretty sure every Cold War POTUS would have informed his allies of any impending action as well as the USSR, indeed probably have tried to inveigle said allies into any shitstorm. So much for the value of the special chemistry between Trump and SKS.
    Did not the US invade Grenada, then a Crown Realm member of the Commonwealth, without Reagan telling Thatcher? (Edit: Ah no, apparently she had three hours warning, but considered that insufficient)

    Different rules have always applied as far as the US is concerned with the Western Hemisphere.
    As far as the US is concerned, South America is a matter of domestic not foreign policy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890
    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/AGPamBondi/status/2007428087143686611

    Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores, have been indicted in the Southern District of New York. Nicolas Maduro has been charged with Narco-Terrorism Conspiracy, Cocaine Importation Conspiracy, Possession of Machineguns and Destructive Devices, and Conspiracy to Possess Machineguns and Destructive Devices against the United States. They will soon face the full wrath of American justice on American soil in American courts. On behalf of the entire U.S. DOJ, I would like to thank President Trump for having the courage to demand accountability on behalf of the American People, and a huge thank you to our brave military who conducted the incredible and highly successful mission to capture these two alleged international narco traffickers.

    Nicolas Maduro is a very bad man and he probably had at least indirect support from drug lords. However the text you have quoted in your post is entirely performative.
    An American court charging someone for illegal possession of firearms in their own country is an interesting charge.

    Will Maduro's defence go for a second ammendment defence?
    The charge is positively dynamite.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,367
    Lol - commercial radio playing American Idiot by Green Day, DJ slips in a little aside on the fade out 'seems particularly relevant today'. Sell Global Radio stock if anyone tells Trump.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
    So had Joe Biden - was he evil ?
    Sigh. When you're asking yourself who of two corrupt malevolent politicians (as in Trump and pre-deposed Maduro) is to be feared the most it's rational to decide it's the one who wields the most power. So on that score, no contest. It's Donald Trump.
    What absolute garbage. You've simply lost yourseldfin that Trump rabbit hole.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,653

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,301
    edited January 3
    Foxy said:
    BYD aren't even that good a Chinese EV brand. Other brands are making far better cars than BYD for as little as ~$30-40k.

    In China I saw virtually no Western cars* other than Tesla and some VWs (which are models exclusive to China made in partnership with a Chinese company). But overwhelmingly it was far superior home grown brands. XPeng, Avatr, Xiaomi to name just 3. I realised after a week I had only seen one traditional petrol station. It became a bit of a game could I find any.

    * if it was it was ultra high end.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138
    Tres said:

    Lol - commercial radio playing American Idiot by Green Day, DJ slips in a little aside on the fade out 'seems particularly relevant today'. Sell Global Radio stock if anyone tells Trump.

    DJ worried about the cost of coke spiralling.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Quite.

    We are reverting to the Cold War, but with the rules of engagement governed by even more self-interest than ideology.
    Pretty sure every Cold War POTUS would have informed his allies of any impending action as well as the USSR, indeed probably have tried to inveigle said allies into any shitstorm. So much for the value of the special chemistry between Trump and SKS.
    Did not the US invade Grenada, then a Crown Realm member of the Commonwealth, without Reagan telling Thatcher? (Edit: Ah no, apparently she had three hours warning, but considered that insufficient)

    Different rules have always applied as far as the US is concerned with the Western Hemisphere.
    As far as the US is concerned, South America is a matter of domestic not foreign policy.

    HYUFD said:

    Keir Starmer should condemn Trump’s illegal action in Venezuela. Maduro is a brutal and illegitimate dictator, but unlawful attacks like this make us all less safe. Trump is giving a green light to the likes of Putin and Xi to attack other countries with impunity.

    https://x.com/EdwardJDavey/status/2007415070062707192?s=20

    For once I think Davey is absolutely right here. This will embolden Russia and China rather than worry them.
    Russia and China have both condemned the US action. It should at least split Trump a bit from Putin which will be good news for Ukraine
    I’d imagine Putin was told this was going to happen. Trump gets free rein in his sphere - Putin his - hence Ukraine in more danger than ever.
    Quite.

    We are reverting to the Cold War, but with the rules of engagement governed by even more self-interest than ideology.
    Pretty sure every Cold War POTUS would have informed his allies of any impending action as well as the USSR, indeed probably have tried to inveigle said allies into any shitstorm. So much for the value of the special chemistry between Trump and SKS.
    Did not the US invade Grenada, then a Crown Realm member of the Commonwealth, without Reagan telling Thatcher? (Edit: Ah no, apparently she had three hours warning, but considered that insufficient)

    Different rules have always applied as far as the US is concerned with the Western Hemisphere.
    As far as the US is concerned, South America is a matter of domestic not foreign policy.
    Indeed.

    I wonder if this is now the focus of the USA. Central and Southern America and the Caribbean and Europe not so much now.

    Thank God we have the dynamic and agile EU to lead if the US lessen their support
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,059
    edited January 3
    Foxy said:

    BYD is now the worlds biggest EV automaker, with sales up 28%. Tesla sales down 16% YoY.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jan/02/china-byd-tesla-worlds-biggest-electric-car-seller-elon-musk-donald-trump-ev?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Meanwhile Grok is publishing digitally sexualised pictures of women and girls without their consent. Presumably Farage, Jenrik and Yaxley-Lennon are expressing their disgust and calling for prosecutions or Grok to be banned.

    https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/grok-says-safeguard-lapses-led-images-minors-minimal-clothing-x-2026-01-02/?link_source=ta_bluesky_link&taid=6957d79a3265bb0001754d9f&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky

    Deliberate. It will give Trump and the others the ability to claim any true Epstein images that emerge are just Grok fake views.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,151

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
    So had Joe Biden - was he evil ?
    Sigh. When you're asking yourself who of two corrupt malevolent politicians (as in Trump and pre-deposed Maduro) is to be feared the most it's rational to decide it's the one who wields the most power. So on that score, no contest. It's Donald Trump.
    What absolute garbage. You've simply lost yourseldfin that Trump rabbit hole.
    Trump is a puppet. Some of the most malevolent sociopaths on the planet are pulling his strings, Stephen Miller requires a notable hat tip.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
    So had Joe Biden - was he evil ?
    Sigh. When you're asking yourself who of two corrupt malevolent politicians (as in Trump and pre-deposed Maduro) is to be feared the most it's rational to decide it's the one who wields the most power. So on that score, no contest. It's Donald Trump.
    What absolute garbage. You've simply lost yourseldfin that Trump rabbit hole.
    Ladies and gentlemen this is what an argument in bad faith from both sides looks like.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,138

    FF43 said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
    The whple of Europe is in a weak position, they're just spectators muttering from the sidelines
    On Venzuela, for sure. On Ukraine, not so much.
    Ukraine is Europe's problem and so far they are just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do.
    That is obviously not true.
    Really ? Where's the stand up to Putin ? The boots on the ground ? The no fly zone ? If Europe was looking after its own interests this is what it would be doing instead of coat trailing Trump.
    Just because they haven’t done what you want them to do doesn’t mean they aren’t doing anything.
    Oh theyre doing something but just nowhere near enough. Europe is just a spineless mess with no leadership.
    Great, so you are retracting your earlier claim that Europe is “just sitting back waiting for Trump to tell them what to do“.
    That's exactly what they are doing. If they were in control of the situation Trump would be listening to them. You seem to think Europe making warm noises and sending a bit of cash is masterly leadership. It's not, they are just spectators waiting for something to happen.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
  • Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645
    One of the most absurd takes from some buffoon called Will Hutton

    it’s Brexit. As if we couldn’t find a common view with our partners as we have on other issues.

    ‘ Starmer can hardly condone what Trump has done in Venezuela, an afront to international law. But to condemn it on our own? Or find a nuanced middle way? The only feasible option is to align with the EU without having any inside voice or influence. Brexit is an unfolding debacle.’

    https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/2007404925098344857?s=61
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,874

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    It would be nice if he did.

    We could start by shutting down US access to the Fylingdales early warning system.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,374
    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    So far as the US is concerned it seems to go in, roughly, 80 years cycles.

    1780 - the war of independence and establishment of the republic
    1860 - civil war and the development of world's pre-eminent power
    1940 - vistory in WW2, cold war and pax americana
    2020 - MAGA
  • ydoethur said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    Yes:

    The American actions in Venezuela overnight are unorthodox and contrary to international law — but if they make China and Russia think twice, it may be a good thing.

    I hope the Venezuelan people can now turn a new leaf without Maduro.


    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/2007405775933845858
    Thanks.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2007405775933845858?s=61

    Apparently he’s Trump’s puppet now, not Putin’s.
  • Taz said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2007405775933845858?s=61

    Apparently he’s Trump’s puppet now, not Putin’s.
    Well, to be fair, that's not particularly different.......
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,190
    Taz said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2007405775933845858?s=61

    Apparently he’s Trump’s puppet now, not Putin’s.
    If he can manage two hands up his arse, it’s possible to be both.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,151

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    This sounds completely delusional. Do you think Starmer is going to order the US military to leave Britain?
    What! Without servicemen at Lakenheath and Mildenhall that would mean closing the Five Guys branch at Barton Mills. There would be uproar.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,935
    From last July:

    https://x.com/SecRubio/status/1949424526401692094

    Maduro is NOT the President of Venezuela and his regime is NOT the legitimate government. Maduro is the head of the Cartel de Los Soles, a narco-terror organization which has taken possession of a country. And he is under indictment for pushing drugs into the United States.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645

    Taz said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2007405775933845858?s=61

    Apparently he’s Trump’s puppet now, not Putin’s.
    If he can manage two hands up his arse, it’s possible to be both.
    I’ll leave that fisting fantasy of yours to you 👍
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,116

    Taz said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2007405775933845858?s=61

    Apparently he’s Trump’s puppet now, not Putin’s.
    If he can manage two hands up his arse, it’s possible to be both.
    Oh I say..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,680
    edited January 3

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Weak, weak, weak.

    https://x.com/realBenBloch/status/2007428964218740783

    BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.

    The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.

    "As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.

    "But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."

    He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.

    "I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."

    What more could he say? Trump and Maduro are as bad as each other as far as the UK is concerned but the UK government needs a stronger relationship with Trump than it does a toppled Venezuelan leader
    How is Trump as bad as Maduro ?
    He's worse because he has far more global power.
    So had Joe Biden - was he evil ?
    Sigh. When you're asking yourself who of two corrupt malevolent politicians (as in Trump and pre-deposed Maduro) is to be feared the most it's rational to decide it's the one who wields the most power. So on that score, no contest. It's Donald Trump.
    What absolute garbage. You've simply lost yourseldfin that Trump rabbit hole.
    Donald Trump is a deeply corrupt and malevolent politician with enormous global power ... this is your idea of absolute garbage that requires going down a rabbit hole to discover?

    Lol. C'mon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,890

    Taz said:

    Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.

    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/2007405775933845858?s=61

    Apparently he’s Trump’s puppet now, not Putin’s.
    If he can manage two hands up his arse, it’s possible to be both.
    He is a very great arse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,243
    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    That may yet happen, but let’s be honest, how many people actually care about the abduction of Maduro?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,645
    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    Just logging in.

    I mean, WT actual F?

    I was already convinced that 2026 would be a bloody nightmare, but even I'm surprised how quickly it has got going. I can't see NATO and any sort of Atlantic alliance holding together for much longer. If Trump carries on like this, and he probably will, we will be left with no choice but to cut ties with the US across the board. This year might see the biggest upheaval in international relations and alliances since the end of WW II.
    That may yet happen, but let’s be honest, how many people actually care about the abduction of Maduro?
    YourParty, The Greens, Ed Davey.

    That’s it
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,705

    Tanks are seen near the presidential palace in Venezuela.
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/2007408476318728386

    Where did they buy their tanks from, Temu?

    That’s an armoured car. It’s got wheels

    V-150?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,059
    edited January 3
    Ukraine set a trap to capture a largely intact top-of-the-range Russian SU-35 - with its radar and electronics. A huge intelligence coup.

    I'm sure the Americans will be wanting to gain that data. Name your price, Ukraine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyP-fHGaUew
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