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Even Reform voters support rejoining Erasmus – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,847
edited December 17 in General
Even Reform voters support rejoining Erasmus – politicalbetting.com

The UK is set to rejoin the EU's Erasmus scheme for university students, a move supported by 65% of BritonsNet support by partyLib Dem +81Lab +77Con +36Reform +7yougov.co.uk/topics/socie…

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    Boom !!
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,703
    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    At some point we need to meet fire with fire, like hacking Russian TV and showing footage on all channels of Putin getting rogered senseless by fantastically well endowed porn stars wearing Stalin facemasks.

    Belgian politicians and finance bosses targeted by Russian intelligence over seized assets

    Exclusive: Key figures at frozen assets depository among targets of intimidation campaign, say European intelligence agencies

    Belgian politicians and senior finance executives have been subject to a campaign of intimidation orchestrated by Russian intelligence aimed at persuading the country to block the use of €185bn assets for Ukraine, according to European intelligence agencies.

    Security officials indicated to the Guardian that there had been deliberate targeting of key figures at Euroclear, the securities depository holding the majority of Russia’s frozen assets, and leaders of the country.

    EU leaders meeting in Brussels on Thursday are debating whether to approve the lending of urgently needed funds for Ukraine secured on Russian central bank assets, critical to maintain Kyiv’s war effort through 2026 and 2027.

    Officials believe the campaign is the responsibility of Russia’s GRU military intelligence, though there is a debate about the degree of threat. “They have been engaged in the tactics of intimidation for sure,” one European official said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/17/belgian-politicians-finance-bosses-targeted-russian-intelligence-seized-assets
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,618
    Add a line to the question saying it costs £570m to rejoin and you’ll get a very different result.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,429
    williamglenn said:

    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.

    Nah, its the salami approach to Rejoin. Slice away at the Brexit sausage until there is nothing left.

    Though once the Tories decide to Rejoin I expect you will revert to your previous Europhilia. We have always been at war with Eastasia...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,273
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw

    Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene: “I think the dam is breaking. . . . Lame duck season has begun.”
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    edited December 17
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    It's great seeing all the young guys and girls around here from all the different countries in Europe working in bars and cafes learning about life and learning languages. Over time if enough do it the narrow minded Faragist bigots might start to disappear and be replaced by more rounded individuals

    A good day for Starmer and the Lib Dems
    Have you helped that tramp dossing down in Villefranche ?

    I’ve been in Newcastle today. Had a drink or two and some cheese and charcuterie. Amazingly I was served by young people from different countries too. It still happens.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,056
    williamglenn said:

    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.

    How wonderful! After spending years of effort and billions of pounds negotiating our way out of the EU we then spend years and years of effort and billions and billions of pounds renegotiating ourselves back to where we were in the first place!!

    It's like something out of Alice in Wonderland.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,697
    Northern_Al said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    You, and the poll question, are not quite right. It's not just for university students - it includes apprentices and FE college vocational students, many/most of whom are not middle class. In 2018/19 10,000 Erasmus beneficiaries were university students, and 8,000 were from the latter groups. And you may not have noticed, but a lot of university students aren't middle class these days.

    Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by the polling on this.
    The polling is worthless without any mention of the cost.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,313
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    At some point we need to meet fire with fire, like hacking Russian TV and showing footage on all channels of Putin getting rogered senseless by fantastically well endowed porn stars wearing Stalin facemasks.

    Belgian politicians and finance bosses targeted by Russian intelligence over seized assets

    Exclusive: Key figures at frozen assets depository among targets of intimidation campaign, say European intelligence agencies

    Belgian politicians and senior finance executives have been subject to a campaign of intimidation orchestrated by Russian intelligence aimed at persuading the country to block the use of €185bn assets for Ukraine, according to European intelligence agencies.

    Security officials indicated to the Guardian that there had been deliberate targeting of key figures at Euroclear, the securities depository holding the majority of Russia’s frozen assets, and leaders of the country.

    EU leaders meeting in Brussels on Thursday are debating whether to approve the lending of urgently needed funds for Ukraine secured on Russian central bank assets, critical to maintain Kyiv’s war effort through 2026 and 2027.

    Officials believe the campaign is the responsibility of Russia’s GRU military intelligence, though there is a debate about the degree of threat. “They have been engaged in the tactics of intimidation for sure,” one European official said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/17/belgian-politicians-finance-bosses-targeted-russian-intelligence-seized-assets

    This is a surprising as the Sun rising.

    To be honest, I would have expected the Russians to go further. Kidnapping relatives would be right in their wheelhouse.
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 621
    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    It's great seeing all the young guys and girls around here from all the different countries in Europe working in bars and cafes learning about life and learning languages. Over time if enough do it the narrow minded Faragist bigots might start to disappear and be replaced by more rounded individuals

    A good day for Starmer and the Lib Dems
    Yes. Let's have a round of applause for the Lib Dems.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,083
    another_richard said:

    I see there is no mention of the £570m per year cost in the question.

    Instead it mentions 'without paying extra fees'.

    According to the BBC there were 9,900 UK students who participated in Erasmus in its last year so if an equivalent number took part that would make it about £57k per student.

    Compare with the Turing scheme which seems to be benefitting about 40k students for only £100m.

    Once again the EU is exposed as a waste of money and this government yet again shows it couldn't get interest free credit at DFS.

    In its last year? When they were shutting it down?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    gettingbetter said:

    Roger said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    It's great seeing all the young guys and girls around here from all the different countries in Europe working in bars and cafes learning about life and learning languages. Over time if enough do it the narrow minded Faragist bigots might start to disappear and be replaced by more rounded individuals

    A good day for Starmer and the Lib Dems
    Yes. Let's have a round of applause for the Lib Dems.
    Hurrah for the black yellow shirts
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,313
    FPT
    Foxy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Carnyx said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Mortimer said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Mortimer said:

    bondegezou said:

    williamglenn said:

    Accidental racism from Starmer.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/2001262534545092623

    Keir Starmer: "I have a Christmas message for Reform. If mysterious men from the east come bearing gifts...this time, report it to the police."

    I see the intention... but it doesn't really work as a joke.
    One of Starmer's biggest problems is that he seems entirely humourless. It is basically impossible to warm to him unless you're also a paid up member of the Fabian Human Rights Lawyer Lanyard Class
    Ooh lanyards again! This is the edgy content we come here for.
    I've worked in plenty of private sector offices where keycards were used. I never saw the need to wear it around my neck; nor did my colleagues. Isn't that what wallets are for holding?
    A classic example of why personal anecdote us no measure of objective reality. I have never worked in an office where you didn't have to display your ID card at all times. It is considered a fundamental part of data security
    I'm now very worried about the firms where Mortimer worked. I hope none of them are my banks, insurance companies, etc.
    Actually, displayed ID is terrible for improving security. One of the first things that crooks do, when trying to infiltrate companies (and they do this) is to fake/clone cards.

    Proper security is implemented by not printing material out, clear desk polices, restricting transfers of data from secure system, always lock your computer when you get a coffee etc etc.

    You should assume that bad actors will get into so called "secured spaces"

    A physical access method without a second factor (a card that works without a pin or palm scan etc) adds virtually nothing.
    All our computers are password protected so card alone cannot log on.

    We swipe to get in and out of wards, but also deal with multiple members of the public and staff who are constantly changing so photo ID is required, which also works as swipe access to doors.

    Sure in a small private sector office where everyonr knows everyone and the only security is at the front door of the building then putting the card in a wallet is fine, but in this social organisation above the ordinary working "lanyard" class is the pompous, arrogant "don't you know who I am?" class.

    It isn't snobbery to wear a lanyard ID in a public facing job, it is very much a marker of humility so that everyone can confirm your identity and role.
    And the people infiltrating secure zones

    - steal cards and glue on a picture that matches
    - clone cards using a machine, return them and create a new card that has their picture on it
    - tail gait into the secure zone
    - get a job as a cleaner. And get given the badge.

    All these have happened in the banks, so regularly that we roll our eyes.

    A card with your picture on it that opens doors, is pretty much security theatre. It looks like you are doing something.

    Did you know that some of the most secure sites in the world don't have locks on the doors?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,303
    @thetnholler.bsky.social‬

    Bongino out! How long til Kash follows him? ⏰ 🎪

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3ma7atlzztk2g
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,668
    Foxy said:

    williamglenn said:

    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.

    Nah, its the salami approach to Rejoin. Slice away at the Brexit sausage until there is nothing left.

    Though once the Tories decide to Rejoin I expect you will revert to your previous Europhilia. We have always been at war with Eastasia...
    Cleverley didn't do anything for his chances coming out with reasons why UK younsters should play no part in it. "It's a betrayal of Brexit" he boomed!

    He sounded like the ultimate luddite.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,618
    Malmesbury said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Carnyx said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Mortimer said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Mortimer said:

    bondegezou said:

    williamglenn said:

    Accidental racism from Starmer.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/2001262534545092623

    Keir Starmer: "I have a Christmas message for Reform. If mysterious men from the east come bearing gifts...this time, report it to the police."

    I see the intention... but it doesn't really work as a joke.
    One of Starmer's biggest problems is that he seems entirely humourless. It is basically impossible to warm to him unless you're also a paid up member of the Fabian Human Rights Lawyer Lanyard Class
    Ooh lanyards again! This is the edgy content we come here for.
    I've worked in plenty of private sector offices where keycards were used. I never saw the need to wear it around my neck; nor did my colleagues. Isn't that what wallets are for holding?
    A classic example of why personal anecdote us no measure of objective reality. I have never worked in an office where you didn't have to display your ID card at all times. It is considered a fundamental part of data security
    I'm now very worried about the firms where Mortimer worked. I hope none of them are my banks, insurance companies, etc.
    Actually, displayed ID is terrible for improving security. One of the first things that crooks do, when trying to infiltrate companies (and they do this) is to fake/clone cards.

    Proper security is implemented by not printing material out, clear desk polices, restricting transfers of data from secure system, always lock your computer when you get a coffee etc etc.

    You should assume that bad actors will get into so called "secured spaces"

    A physical access method without a second factor (a card that works without a pin or palm scan etc) adds virtually nothing.
    All our computers are password protected so card alone cannot log on.

    We swipe to get in and out of wards, but also deal with multiple members of the public and staff who are constantly changing so photo ID is required, which also works as swipe access to doors.

    Sure in a small private sector office where everyonr knows everyone and the only security is at the front door of the building then putting the card in a wallet is fine, but in this social organisation above the ordinary working "lanyard" class is the pompous, arrogant "don't you know who I am?" class.

    It isn't snobbery to wear a lanyard ID in a public facing job, it is very much a marker of humility so that everyone can confirm your identity and role.
    And the people infiltrating secure zones

    - steal cards and glue on a picture that matches
    - clone cards using a machine, return them and create a new card that has their picture on it
    - tail gait into the secure zone
    - get a job as a cleaner. And get given the badge.

    All these have happened in the banks, so regularly that we roll our eyes.

    A card with your picture on it that opens doors, is pretty much security theatre. It looks like you are doing something.

    Did you know that some of the most secure sites in the world don't have locks on the doors?
    Well quite. I’m sure the FSB isn’t thwarted by the requirement of a lanyard-pass.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,883
    SKS should get to work on bribing our way back into Galileo next.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,303
    @factpostnews.bsky.social‬

    Q: Have you lost control of the House?

    Johnson: I have not lost control of the House

    https://bsky.app/profile/factpostnews.bsky.social/post/3ma772hmbkn2u


    This is probably fine then...


    @alaynatreene

    Former GOP Speaker KEVIN MCCARTHY just boarded Marine One with the president as they prepare to head to Dover Air Force Base for the dignified transfer of the US Army soldiers killed in Syria

    https://x.com/alaynatreene/status/2001355348981223649?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,138
    Dura_Ace said:

    SKS should get to work on bribing our way back into Galileo next.

    Are they needing a massive bung of tax payers' money too?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,703
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    williamglenn said:

    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.

    How wonderful! After spending years of effort and billions of pounds negotiating our way out of the EU we then spend years and years of effort and billions and billions of pounds renegotiating ourselves back to where we were in the first place!!

    It's like something out of Alice in Wonderland.
    At least it gives us something to do and avoids stasis.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,313
    a
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    SKS should get to work on bribing our way back into Galileo next.

    Are they needing a massive bung of tax payers' money too?
    Rolling our own would be cheaper.

    Because you don’t need to copy the expensive architecture of GPS to achieve highly accurate navigation.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,139
    edited December 17
    Completely off topic but amusing. Vanity Fair and some of the pics they managed to get. Seems he has small feet as well as hands.



    Only 1 pic but here are the others

    https://x.com/VanityFair/status/2001007141801652390

    https://x.com/VanityFair/status/2001005380672143609

    https://x.com/VanityFair/status/2001004777480839444
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,668
    another_richard said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    You, and the poll question, are not quite right. It's not just for university students - it includes apprentices and FE college vocational students, many/most of whom are not middle class. In 2018/19 10,000 Erasmus beneficiaries were university students, and 8,000 were from the latter groups. And you may not have noticed, but a lot of university students aren't middle class these days.

    Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by the polling on this.
    The polling is worthless without any mention of the cost.
    No one is interested in the cost. Big government figures are meaningless. Millions billions shmillions....if only we were all accountants we might give a shit
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,153
    Roger said:

    another_richard said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    You, and the poll question, are not quite right. It's not just for university students - it includes apprentices and FE college vocational students, many/most of whom are not middle class. In 2018/19 10,000 Erasmus beneficiaries were university students, and 8,000 were from the latter groups. And you may not have noticed, but a lot of university students aren't middle class these days.

    Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by the polling on this.
    The polling is worthless without any mention of the cost.
    No one is interested in the cost. Big government figures are meaningless. Millions billions shmillions....if only we were all accountants we might give a shit
    That’d be a good slogan for Polanski
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,154
    edited December 17
    BlancheLivermore said:

    Roger said:

    another_richard said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Taz said:

    Voters support middle class kids dossing around for a year abroad. 👍

    You, and the poll question, are not quite right. It's not just for university students - it includes apprentices and FE college vocational students, many/most of whom are not middle class. In 2018/19 10,000 Erasmus beneficiaries were university students, and 8,000 were from the latter groups. And you may not have noticed, but a lot of university students aren't middle class these days.

    Personally, I'm pleasantly surprised by the polling on this.
    The polling is worthless without any mention of the cost.
    No one is interested in the cost. Big government figures are meaningless. Millions billions shmillions....if only we were all accountants we might give a shit
    That’d be a good slogan for Polanski
    The big winner would be Labour.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,313
    ozymandias said:

    Malmesbury said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Carnyx said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Mortimer said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Mortimer said:

    bondegezou said:

    williamglenn said:

    Accidental racism from Starmer.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/2001262534545092623

    Keir Starmer: "I have a Christmas message for Reform. If mysterious men from the east come bearing gifts...this time, report it to the police."

    I see the intention... but it doesn't really work as a joke.
    One of Starmer's biggest problems is that he seems entirely humourless. It is basically impossible to warm to him unless you're also a paid up member of the Fabian Human Rights Lawyer Lanyard Class
    Ooh lanyards again! This is the edgy content we come here for.
    I've worked in plenty of private sector offices where keycards were used. I never saw the need to wear it around my neck; nor did my colleagues. Isn't that what wallets are for holding?
    A classic example of why personal anecdote us no measure of objective reality. I have never worked in an office where you didn't have to display your ID card at all times. It is considered a fundamental part of data security
    I'm now very worried about the firms where Mortimer worked. I hope none of them are my banks, insurance companies, etc.
    Actually, displayed ID is terrible for improving security. One of the first things that crooks do, when trying to infiltrate companies (and they do this) is to fake/clone cards.

    Proper security is implemented by not printing material out, clear desk polices, restricting transfers of data from secure system, always lock your computer when you get a coffee etc etc.

    You should assume that bad actors will get into so called "secured spaces"

    A physical access method without a second factor (a card that works without a pin or palm scan etc) adds virtually nothing.
    All our computers are password protected so card alone cannot log on.

    We swipe to get in and out of wards, but also deal with multiple members of the public and staff who are constantly changing so photo ID is required, which also works as swipe access to doors.

    Sure in a small private sector office where everyonr knows everyone and the only security is at the front door of the building then putting the card in a wallet is fine, but in this social organisation above the ordinary working "lanyard" class is the pompous, arrogant "don't you know who I am?" class.

    It isn't snobbery to wear a lanyard ID in a public facing job, it is very much a marker of humility so that everyone can confirm your identity and role.
    And the people infiltrating secure zones

    - steal cards and glue on a picture that matches
    - clone cards using a machine, return them and create a new card that has their picture on it
    - tail gait into the secure zone
    - get a job as a cleaner. And get given the badge.

    All these have happened in the banks, so regularly that we roll our eyes.

    A card with your picture on it that opens doors, is pretty much security theatre. It looks like you are doing something.

    Did you know that some of the most secure sites in the world don't have locks on the doors?
    Well quite. I’m sure the FSB isn’t thwarted by the requirement of a lanyard-pass.
    Or basically competent crooks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,712
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    williamglenn said:

    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.

    How wonderful! After spending years of effort and billions of pounds negotiating our way out of the EU we then spend years and years of effort and billions and billions of pounds renegotiating ourselves back to where we were in the first place!!

    It's like something out of Alice in Wonderland.

    Not really - it’s part of the “scorched earth” of leaving the EU. Even if we could rejoin, the costs of getting back into all the various programmes would be substantial and that’s part of the elephant trap left for future generations by those who so desperately wanted us out a decade ago.

    In the scheme of Government spending, £570 million isn’t a lot but could the money be better spent elsewhere such as in helping the homeless or mitigating child poverty or dealing with mental health, drug and alcohol addiction or domestic violence? Unquestionably, yes and if that were the argument against Erasmus, I could understand it but instead we have some nonsensical flailing around against “betraying Brexit”.

    There is a point the experiences and contacts achieved by those taking part in Erasmus could well pay dividends in the long term for the economy and society but of course all we might create is a generation of liberal internationalists and global thinkers much as Right to Buy created a generation of Conservative-voting homeowners.

    Sometimes it is just all about the politics…
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,114
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t

    The Tree of Life is Self-Pruning.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,153
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t

    A Darwin Awards ceremony is called for
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,840
    williamglenn said:

    This isn't undoing Brexit but consolidating it. In the end there will be no reason to rejoin because we'll have negotiated all the things we want anyway.

    It's a student exchange programme, for a year.

    If they want to think and feel that's unpicking Brexit, I'm quite happy for them to be sated by it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,272
    edited December 17
    FPT
    Battlebus said:

    stodge said:

    Benpointer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Benpointer said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    bondegezou said:

    Mortimer said:

    bondegezou said:

    Mortimer said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    What comes over at this PMQs is Starmer's utter obsession with Farage and Reform

    Dinner Party politics.

    He ought to be obsessed with tackling the issues that are leading to Reform's rise. Reduce immigration, grow the economy so that living standards rise for all.
    He has reduced immigration.
    Lol. Put that on a bus and see how it goes down.....
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2025

    Net immigration year ending March 2023 = 944,000
    Net immigration year ending June 2025 = 204,000

    That's a 78% drop. If you want reduced immigration, Starmer has absolutely delivered reduced immigration. And the figures are still trending downwards.
    Why miss out 2024 which was 345,000

    The reduction is the result of the conservative tightening rules and little to do with Starmer

    The fact still remains it was the Conservatives who oversaw a massive spike in immigration, by far the biggest increase ever.

    Also, there were several on here in 2023/24 who claimed a Labour government would introduce an open doors immigration policy. Many of the same group who told us the IMF would be running the country by now.

    Labour have been disappointing but still a huge improvement on the previous government.
    The risk premium on gilts is now higher than it was under Liz Truss. Labour have smashed the economy, into tiny little pieces and the only "winners" are benefit claimants and public sector workers.
    The 'smashed into tiny little pieces' economy still grew over the last 12 months, the FTSE is 20% up since the election, the Economic Inactivity rate has declined.

    I am not saying it's a rosy picture overall, far from it, but 'smashed into tiny little pieces' is hyperbole bullshit.
    Yes, the 30 year rate was 5.6% in August so today’s number is a little off the top. The FTSE 100 isn’t a reliable indicator of the UK economy and the FTSE 250 is up about 7% since the election.

    The fall in oil prices is helping with inflation and I imagine most are happy to see fuel prices steady or declining but for all the hyperbole and partisan over reaction, @MaxPB does have a point. The actions taken by Reeves since coming to office have failed to slow the borrowing train to any extent and when people see energy prices for example continuing to rise it’s little surprise the mood remains worried and pessimistic.

    The Budget was a missed opportunity to take some radical action - rather like her predecessor at No.11 it will be timidity which finishes Reeves.
    Might I suggest that the Budget is the completely wrong place to set up the future of the economy. It starts with all the little changes such as the Renters Reform Bill which ought to slow down rent price increase. Then there is the Minimum Wage which will increase the gap between benefits and work i.e. making work pay. Then there is the Employees Rights Act and the inbuilt hit squad that will tackle some of the abuses by a minority of employers in trying to underpay staff. And items like today's Erasmus which ought to have some beneficial effect on a) the supply of less insular graduates and b) provide a boost to university incomes in the shape of more EU students.

    Having some sort of annual raft of changes is counterproductive. A continuing flow of changes which rectify some of the ideological nonsense of the last lot, allows companies and organisations to make sequential changes rather than some big bang.
    I haven't taken any formal advice on this yet, beyond a seminar. But unless I really missed something the budget put an extra 2% of income tax on net rental income, which will fall straight through. I still have to work out what impact this will have on my rents; it will probably add 1% from April, and maybe something the following year, depending.

    The general view is that the RRB will increase costs, which will fall through to rents to cover - not likely to effect me especially since I do long term lets to civilised tenants who stay for years, and I don't do furnished. And I support the RRB.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,618
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Oh dear…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,138
    ozymandias said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Oh dear…
    Its stag gering.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,618
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t

    The callous comments some have made under this disgust me, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
    Yawn.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,703
    Regarding the hunger strike, are the people asking for intervention calling for them to be force fed?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,154
    I don't think offering renewed student exchange Erasmus schemes means much and certainly not the end of Brexit. Even if the Conservatives would have preferred to keep the more limited Turing exchange scheme which also includes students from other parts of the world
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,139
    MattW said:

    FPT

    Battlebus said:

    stodge said:

    Benpointer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Benpointer said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    bondegezou said:

    Mortimer said:

    bondegezou said:

    Mortimer said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    What comes over at this PMQs is Starmer's utter obsession with Farage and Reform

    Dinner Party politics.

    He ought to be obsessed with tackling the issues that are leading to Reform's rise. Reduce immigration, grow the economy so that living standards rise for all.
    He has reduced immigration.
    Lol. Put that on a bus and see how it goes down.....
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2025

    Net immigration year ending March 2023 = 944,000
    Net immigration year ending June 2025 = 204,000

    That's a 78% drop. If you want reduced immigration, Starmer has absolutely delivered reduced immigration. And the figures are still trending downwards.
    Why miss out 2024 which was 345,000

    The reduction is the result of the conservative tightening rules and little to do with Starmer

    The fact still remains it was the Conservatives who oversaw a massive spike in immigration, by far the biggest increase ever.

    Also, there were several on here in 2023/24 who claimed a Labour government would introduce an open doors immigration policy. Many of the same group who told us the IMF would be running the country by now.

    Labour have been disappointing but still a huge improvement on the previous government.
    The risk premium on gilts is now higher than it was under Liz Truss. Labour have smashed the economy, into tiny little pieces and the only "winners" are benefit claimants and public sector workers.
    The 'smashed into tiny little pieces' economy still grew over the last 12 months, the FTSE is 20% up since the election, the Economic Inactivity rate has declined.

    I am not saying it's a rosy picture overall, far from it, but 'smashed into tiny little pieces' is hyperbole bullshit.
    Yes, the 30 year rate was 5.6% in August so today’s number is a little off the top. The FTSE 100 isn’t a reliable indicator of the UK economy and the FTSE 250 is up about 7% since the election.

    The fall in oil prices is helping with inflation and I imagine most are happy to see fuel prices steady or declining but for all the hyperbole and partisan over reaction, @MaxPB does have a point. The actions taken by Reeves since coming to office have failed to slow the borrowing train to any extent and when people see energy prices for example continuing to rise it’s little surprise the mood remains worried and pessimistic.

    The Budget was a missed opportunity to take some radical action - rather like her predecessor at No.11 it will be timidity which finishes Reeves.
    Might I suggest that the Budget is the completely wrong place to set up the future of the economy. It starts with all the little changes such as the Renters Reform Bill which ought to slow down rent price increase. Then there is the Minimum Wage which will increase the gap between benefits and work i.e. making work pay. Then there is the Employees Rights Act and the inbuilt hit squad that will tackle some of the abuses by a minority of employers in trying to underpay staff. And items like today's Erasmus which ought to have some beneficial effect on a) the supply of less insular graduates and b) provide a boost to university incomes in the shape of more EU students.

    Having some sort of annual raft of changes is counterproductive. A continuing flow of changes which rectify some of the ideological nonsense of the last lot, allows companies and organisations to make sequential changes rather than some big bang.
    I haven't taken any formal advice on this yet, beyond a seminar. But unless I really missed something the budget put an extra 2% of income tax on net rental income, which will fall straight through. I still have to work out what impact this will have on my rents; it will probably add 1% from April, and maybe something the following year, depending.

    The general view is that the RRB will increase costs, which will fall through to rents to cover - not likely to effect me especially since I do long term lets to civilised tenants who stay for years, and I don't do furnished. And I support the RRB.
    It's not the 2% income tax, it's the mechanism to raise rents that will have the slowing effect. That and the lack of tribunal judges to decide on the increase.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,154
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t

    Short of force feeding them Suffragette style what exactly is Lammy supposed to do? Starmer's government has already recognised Palestine as a state
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,272
    edited December 17
    ozymandias said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Oh dear…
    Sounds like a good thing to do with all our surplus deer.

    Does this mean football supporters will be more svelte?

    Presumably Agent Anderson and Little Richard will mount a boycott in protest :wink: . Though I think that Lee Anderson probably sees lots of deer from the back window of his nice new house in Notts golf club country, so he could catch his own.

    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/72adf68c132a392f

    The shed dwellers of Tunbridge Wells in the comments are delightfully confused. Do we prioritise good use of resources and better food, or our outrage at someone reducing C02 emissions?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    williamglenn said:

    Regarding the hunger strike, are the people asking for intervention calling for them to be force fed?

    No, it's more they are on remand, and likely to be on remand for another two years, the other issue is that they were arrested before Palestine Action were proscribed.

    The hunger strikers’ demands include immediate bail, the lifting of the proscription of Palestine Action and an end to restrictions on their communications in prison.

    The letter from Imran Khan & Partners to Lammy, which has been seen by The Times, concludes: “You are uniquely placed in that as a senior government minister with oversight of His Majesty’s prison service, you can bring about a resolution of the situation, such that the increasing deterioration of our clients’ health does not lead to their death.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,303
    DavidL said:

    ozymandias said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Oh dear…
    Its stag gering.
    I imagine they're the sort of operations that price their Chinese Water Deer too.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,153
    Erasmus fans: how much would be too much to pay for each student we send abroad to study for a year?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,292
    Why have we got to give the fuckers 500 million.plus?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,661
    I don't care about Erasmus.

    Shoot me.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,138
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't care about Erasmus.

    Shoot me.

    So where are you at the moment?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    squareroot2 said:

    Why have we got to give the fuckers 500 million.plus?

    Because entitled middle class kids need a year pissing around abroad.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    Taz said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Why have we got to give the fuckers 500 million.plus?

    Because entitled middle class kids need a year pissing around abroad.
    Class warfare is nasty.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,138
    Taz said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Why have we got to give the fuckers 500 million.plus?

    Because entitled middle class kids need a year pissing around abroad.
    Do they realise how much decent wine we could buy them for £31k each?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Why have we got to give the fuckers 500 million.plus?

    Because entitled middle class kids need a year pissing around abroad.
    Do they realise how much decent wine we could buy them for £31k each?
    That’s about 40,000 bottles of Jamshed. 👍
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,273

    Lisa Desjardins
    @LisaDNews
    BRUTAL POLL for Republicans. Our latest
    @NewsHour
    poll with
    @Marist
    +
    @NPR
    .

    - 38%. Trump is at his worst rating ever on the economy (either term). Just 38% approve.
    - 35%. THIS. More reg. voters believe Dems are better on the economy than Repubs. (!) 40% to 35%
    - Rs are losing women, including in his base. See next.
    - 41%. Non-college white women - Trump is underwater. 41% approve, 47% DISapprove.
    - 70%. College white women. 70% (!) disapprove of Trump. That's higher than after January 6, 2021.
    - 25%. Republicans are starting to feel concern. 25% of Rs are pessimistic about the future.
    - 38%. Tariffs are part of it. 38% of Republicans (!) are concerned about tariffs.
    - Overall, the country is worried, feeling it can't get ahead and unhappy with Trump on the economy.

    Give it your own look -- here is our write up w/ link to all data.

    https://x.com/LisaDNews/status/2001307240939065766
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,065
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t

    The callous comments some have made under this disgust me, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
    The PB keyboard hardmen are always with us.
    I get the impression that many of them can barely comprehend missing a few meals, let alone going without for weeks and weeks.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,056
    Malmesbury said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    At some point we need to meet fire with fire, like hacking Russian TV and showing footage on all channels of Putin getting rogered senseless by fantastically well endowed porn stars wearing Stalin facemasks.

    Belgian politicians and finance bosses targeted by Russian intelligence over seized assets

    Exclusive: Key figures at frozen assets depository among targets of intimidation campaign, say European intelligence agencies

    Belgian politicians and senior finance executives have been subject to a campaign of intimidation orchestrated by Russian intelligence aimed at persuading the country to block the use of €185bn assets for Ukraine, according to European intelligence agencies.

    Security officials indicated to the Guardian that there had been deliberate targeting of key figures at Euroclear, the securities depository holding the majority of Russia’s frozen assets, and leaders of the country.

    EU leaders meeting in Brussels on Thursday are debating whether to approve the lending of urgently needed funds for Ukraine secured on Russian central bank assets, critical to maintain Kyiv’s war effort through 2026 and 2027.

    Officials believe the campaign is the responsibility of Russia’s GRU military intelligence, though there is a debate about the degree of threat. “They have been engaged in the tactics of intimidation for sure,” one European official said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/17/belgian-politicians-finance-bosses-targeted-russian-intelligence-seized-assets

    This is a surprising as the Sun rising.

    To be honest, I would have expected the Russians to go further. Kidnapping relatives would be right in their wheelhouse.
    It's kind of encouraging in that it suggests we are touching their raw nerves.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,153
    Theuniondivvie said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Starmer might have to avoid Brighton hotels for the next few years.

    Palestine Action hunger strikers ‘set to die unless minister acts’

    David Lammy, the justice secretary, has refused to meet lawyers for eight protesters refusing food while they await trials scheduled for months away

    Palestine Action activists on hunger strike are likely to die in prison if the justice secretary does not intervene, lawyers for the eight protesters have claimed.

    On Wednesday two of the group reached day 46 of their protest — the point at which Martin Hurson, 24, became the sixth of ten IRA hunger strikers to die in 1981. A third is on day 45.

    In a letter sent to David Lammy, the justice secretary and deputy prime minister, on Tuesday the activists’ lawyers said that without intervention their deaths were “increasingly more than a mere possibility. It is a likelihood.”

    Qesser Zuhrah, 20, who is on remand in HMP Bronzefield in Surrey, has been refusing food since November 2. She collapsed “a few nights ago” with her legs shaking uncontrollably, her lawyers said.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/palestine-action-hunger-strikers-set-to-die-unless-minister-acts-qcjttqg8t

    The callous comments some have made under this disgust me, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
    The PB keyboard hardmen are always with us.
    I get the impression that many of them can barely comprehend missing a few meals, let alone going without for weeks and weeks.
    The good PB folk can fully empathise with the self starvers?

    I wish I were good..
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,086
    There appears to be a missing "s" in the article title
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,273
    viewcode said:

    There appears to be a missing "s" in the article title

    Fake news!

    I never mistakes, me making mistakes is unpossible.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,090
    Footballer Paul Gascoigne has arrived at the prison with some KFC and Stella saying he is a friend of the hunger strikers
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,242
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw

    America is probably right about the frozen assets though. I'm surprised the international law and global order enthusiasts are so cavalier about property rights.

    It is probably best to invest the lot in TrumpCoin and give the profits to Ukraine, and eventually return the principal to Russia. What could go wrong?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,969
    Taz said:

    Footballer Paul Gascoigne has arrived at the prison with some KFC and Stella saying he is a friend of the hunger strikers

    Free Gazza Strip!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,969
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    viewcode said:

    There appears to be a missing "s" in the article title

    Fake news!

    I never mistakes, me making mistakes is unpossible.
    Tsk, these Cambridge-educated lawyers!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,138
    Taz said:

    Footballer Paul Gascoigne has arrived at the prison with some KFC and Stella saying he is a friend of the hunger strikers

    Stella?? He's brought them beer? Now that is funny.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,313
    edited December 17
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Ok I'll ask.

    Is it vegan?

    EDITL: For those who don't know, venison is actually cheaper than beef now. The premium prices are for particular cuts and rarity value. If you start ordering by the hundred ton.....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,685
    The cost is an issue but as long as it's people who were and remain "wrong" about Brexit who are complaining about it, the government should be OK.

    And if the UK doesn't agree Erasmus it's not likely to get very far with various other chunky negotiations going through the pipeline on phytosanitary checks, electricity trading and carbon trading. So the government might as well declare it as a win.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,969
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't care about Erasmus.

    Shoot me.

    Not even Microman?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,138
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Taz said:

    Footballer Paul Gascoigne has arrived at the prison with some KFC and Stella saying he is a friend of the hunger strikers

    Free Gazza Strip!
    How much would it cost for him not to?
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,363
    Malmesbury said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Ok I'll ask.

    Is it vegan?

    EDITL: For those who don't know, venison is actually cheaper than beef now. The premium prices are for particular cuts and rarity value. If you start ordering by the hundred ton.....
    Cheap? I'd always heard it was rather dear...
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,153
    Christmas is going quite well, got to £205 in tips today (and two bottles of wine and a box of chocolates), and I’ve still got a week to go

    What’s been especially nice about it is that everyone has told me that they made sure they’d been giving the money to me, not one of the other posties covering during my absence - I think the absence might be helping..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,969
    edited December 17
    The following NON-EU members participate in Erasmus:

    North Macedonia
    Serbia
    Iceland
    Liechtenstein
    Norway
    Turkey
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,969
    pm215 said:

    Malmesbury said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stadiums replace beef burgers with venison to cut carbon emissions

    Brentford FC and Twickenham among those to have changed menus in move claimed to reduce harmful greenhouse gases by 85 per cent

    For decades, the simple beef burger has been a staple part of the match-day diet of the United Kingdom’s sport-loving population. But now its presence at sporting events is under serious threat, as venues across the country are making the switch to wild venison in an attempt to reduce their carbon emissions.

    The sustainability push is taking place at venues including Brentford’s Gtech Stadium, Molineux Stadium in Wolverhampton, the Oval cricket ground and the Allianz Stadium in Twickenham. Catering company Levy UK, which has implemented this initiative at more than 20 venues in the UK and Ireland, says it will have a dramatic impact on emissions.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2025/12/10/sport-stadiums-replace-beef-with-venison-to-cut-emissions/

    Ok I'll ask.

    Is it vegan?

    EDITL: For those who don't know, venison is actually cheaper than beef now. The premium prices are for particular cuts and rarity value. If you start ordering by the hundred ton.....
    Cheap? I'd always heard it was rather dear...
    Always a centrepiece of Stag-dos.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,273
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    The following NON-EU members participate in Erasmus:

    North Macedonia
    Serbia
    Iceland
    Liechtenstein
    Norway
    Turkey

    Mail has already latched on to the bottom of that list.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,173
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't care about Erasmus.

    Shoot me.

    He was quite important in the development of humanism
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,173
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw

    America is probably right about the frozen assets though. I'm surprised the international law and global order enthusiasts are so cavalier about property rights.

    It is probably best to invest the lot in TrumpCoin and give the profits to Ukraine, and eventually return the principal to Russia. What could go wrong?
    Aren’t they just sticking them in escrow to be spent on reparations/reconstruction following the peace treaty?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,292
    500 million is bonkers
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,685
    edited December 17
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw

    America is probably right about the frozen assets though. I'm surprised the international law and global order enthusiasts are so cavalier about property rights.

    It is probably best to invest the lot in TrumpCoin and give the profits to Ukraine, and eventually return the principal to Russia. What could go wrong?
    Technically, and actually so in an important way, there is no change to ownership of these assets. Which is why Belgium is up in arms about it. A "loan" is made to Ukraine using these assets as backing. The loan is not required to be repaid until Russia provides reparations to that country. The assets are frozen until such time the reparations are resolved, which is quite likely to be indefinite. Russia doesn't pay reparations and the EU doesn't unfreeze the assets.

    Belgium is concerned that the assets may be unfrozen before Ukraine sees any reparations.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,273
    Factoid of the day:

    Cuyo in PHILIPPINES: temperature has been above 24.8C for the entire year of 2025.

    This is a world record says Extreme Temperatures Around the World



    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/2001255225836134848
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,563
    edited December 17
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    The following NON-EU members participate in Erasmus:

    North Macedonia
    Serbia
    Iceland
    Liechtenstein
    Norway
    Turkey

    I tried to find out how much they all paid but apparently none pay a fee just for Erasmus.

    If they do pay anything to the EU it is part of a wider participation agreement.

    So, if we are negotiating various other things with the EU, why are we paying for this individually?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,313
    FF43 said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw

    America is probably right about the frozen assets though. I'm surprised the international law and global order enthusiasts are so cavalier about property rights.

    It is probably best to invest the lot in TrumpCoin and give the profits to Ukraine, and eventually return the principal to Russia. What could go wrong?
    Technically, and actually so in an important way, there is no change to ownership of these assets. Which is why Belgium is up in arms about it. A "loan" is made to Ukraine using these assets as backing. The loan is not required to be repaid until Russia provides reparations to that country. The assets are frozen until such time the reparations are resolved, which is quite likely to be indefinite. Russia doesn't pay reparations and the EU doesn't unfreeze the assets.

    Belgium is concerned that the assets may be unfrozen before Ukraine sees any reparations.
    Some of the banks holding assets have expressed concern that they may end up between two legal jurisdictions if the release the assets, rather than just freezing them.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,940
    another_richard said:

    I see there is no mention of the £570m per year cost in the question.

    Instead it mentions 'without paying extra fees'.

    According to the BBC there were 9,900 UK students who participated in Erasmus in its last year so if an equivalent number took part that would make it about £57k per student.

    Compare with the Turing scheme which seems to be benefitting about 40k students for only £100m.

    Once again the EU is exposed as a waste of money and this government yet again shows it couldn't get interest free credit at DFS.

    I don't understand the logic of Erasmus.

    40k people is considerably more than 9,900.

    £100m is considerably less than £570 million.

    If we have a half billion pounds lying about to spend on tertiary education, why not give it via Turing which was already helping four times more people at 1/6th of the cost?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,173
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    another_richard said:

    I see there is no mention of the £570m per year cost in the question.

    Instead it mentions 'without paying extra fees'.

    According to the BBC there were 9,900 UK students who participated in Erasmus in its last year so if an equivalent number took part that would make it about £57k per student.

    Compare with the Turing scheme which seems to be benefitting about 40k students for only £100m.

    Once again the EU is exposed as a waste of money and this government yet again shows it couldn't get interest free credit at DFS.

    I don't understand the logic of Erasmus.

    40k people is considerably more than 9,900.

    £100m is considerably less than £570 million.

    If we have a half billion pounds lying about to spend on tertiary education, why not give it via Turing which was already helping four times more people at 1/6th of the cost?
    Because that’s less “European” and so the people decoding don’t feel as warm and fuzzy at dinner parties
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,581
    HYUFD said:

    I don't think offering renewed student exchange Erasmus schemes means much and certainly not the end of Brexit. Even if the Conservatives would have preferred to keep the more limited Turing exchange scheme which also includes students from other parts of the world

    Nevertheless the Tories’ describing this as betraying Brexit is a mistake, both tactical (since it will only impress those already of that opinion) and strategic, since if the government succeeds in delivering this to majority public support and without any political backlash, despite the Tories and Reform trying to manufacture one, they will be more confident at taking us back towards fuller integration with the EU.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,464
    StillWaters said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Shocked that Trump is on the side of Russia.

    US warns Europe against giving frozen Russian billions to Ukraine

    As European leaders prepare to meet on Thursday, Washington is pressuring them to abandon plans to seize assets because they ‘are going to have to give it back’

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/frozen-russia-assets-ukraine-eu-us-hcrt8xjmw

    America is probably right about the frozen assets though. I'm surprised the international law and global order enthusiasts are so cavalier about property rights.

    It is probably best to invest the lot in TrumpCoin and give the profits to Ukraine, and eventually return the principal to Russia. What could go wrong?
    Aren’t they just sticking them in escrow to be spent on reparations/reconstruction following the peace treaty?
    But that's the problem. Trump wants to steal them for himself.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,429
    edited December 17
    williamglenn said:

    Regarding the hunger strike, are the people asking for intervention calling for them to be force fed?

    They can be bailed pending a trial date, or alternativley have a trial date fixed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,464
    rottenborough said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    The following NON-EU members participate in Erasmus:

    North Macedonia
    Serbia
    Iceland
    Liechtenstein
    Norway
    Turkey

    Mail has already latched on to the bottom of that list.

    Have they said it should get stuffed?
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