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An Anglo-Canadian union – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,831
edited 6:45AM in General
An Anglo-Canadian union – politicalbetting.com

In the icy darkness, an autonomous glider—a torpedo-shaped drone the size of a kayak, drifting on programmed currents—suspends its descent. Its acoustic sensors detect something: a faint anomaly in the background hum of current and marine life, barely distinguishable from the ocean itself. The onboard algorithm processes, classifies, hesitates.

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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,129
    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,089
    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,282
    It's a nice idea but I'm not sure I can see it happening.

    The head of state's easy to resolve, but are separate Parliaments retained? If there's a unified political body how would the seats be divided up? If it's giving roughly equal voter weight then Canada might feel short-changed. If it's equal between the UK/Canada then the average British vote will be worth around half that of a Canadian.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,451
    Whilst well written, and organised into paragraphs of a digestible length, I find the whole basis of this header rather silly. And its silliness feeds equally into the Brexit argument. Rather like a person seeking a relationship to fix them, this is another outside solution to an inside job. Britain (and possibly Canada too, I wouldn't know) has serious issues - a porous border, massive social welfare spending, top-heavy demographics, an unproductive and ideologically driven administrative class, the highest energy costs in the developed world, and underpinning all this, a fundamentally ungovernable system of quangos and courts, that make building, investing, and growing a business in Britain almost impossible. Why don't we deal with some of those things (preferably all of them) and then take score, rather than desparately seeking international partnerships as some sort of sticking plaster?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274
    edited 7:27AM

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    Both we and Canada should therefore join, of course, the EU.

    That would require constitutional innovation and political courage. But the logic is ineluctable: organize or decline, federate or fragment, achieve scale or accept subordination. In a world of giants, middle powers face extinction. The union offers survival—not through nostalgia, but through ruthless adaptation to the world as it is.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274
    Cracking header, btw.

    My minor adjustment would render its argument irrefutable.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,450
    A thought provoking header, thanks. I'm not sure a formal union would work - geographically and trade-wise it makes more sense for the UK to be in the EU and Canada to be in USMCA. But geopolitics perhaps points to a closer relationship and I think you are absolutely right about liberal democracies making common cause in a hostile world.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274

    It's a nice idea but I'm not sure I can see it happening.

    The head of state's easy to resolve, but are separate Parliaments retained? If there's a unified political body how would the seats be divided up? If it's giving roughly equal voter weight then Canada might feel short-changed. If it's equal between the UK/Canada then the average British vote will be worth around half that of a Canadian.

    Transatlantic mass migration, obvs.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,174
    I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with French becoming an official language of this country.

    That's why this plan is a hard no from me.

    Plus the SNP and the Bloc Québécois might team up and we'd have rebellious secessionists to deal with.

    Oh and then there's guns.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274

    Whilst well written, and organised into paragraphs of a digestible length, I find the whole basis of this header rather silly. And its silliness feeds equally into the Brexit argument. Rather like a person seeking a relationship to fix them, this is another outside solution to an inside job. Britain (and possibly Canada too, I wouldn't know) has serious issues - a porous border, massive social welfare spending, top-heavy demographics, an unproductive and ideologically driven administrative class, the highest energy costs in the developed world, and underpinning all this, a fundamentally ungovernable system of quangos and courts, that make building, investing, and growing a business in Britain almost impossible. Why don't we deal with some of those things (preferably all of them) and then take score, rather than desparately seeking international partnerships as some sort of sticking plaster?

    Your finding something silly is faint condemnation indeed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274
    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,356

    I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with French becoming an official language of this country.

    That's why this plan is a hard no from me.

    Plus the SNP and the Bloc Québécois might team up and we'd have rebellious secessionists to deal with.

    Oh and then there's guns.

    Somebody would have to Wade in to stop that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,776
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This post makes good points about the Ajax disaster.

    https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1997728259585233266
    Questions should also be raised when the programme is described as a firm-price contract of approximately £5.4 billion, and when delays are framed as “not over budget, just late.” For example: who funded the User Validation Trials (UVT) at Millbrook Proving Ground? These trials were required to independently demonstrate to General Dynamics (GD) that issues existed with the vehicle. GD did not cover the cost; the public did. Taxpayers ultimately paid to provide evidence that the platform had faults.

    GD’s response to the identified vibration issues was a “comfort pack,” which mounted crew controls and seating on rubber isolators to reduce vibration exposure. The company then asserted that the issue was resolved. During UVT, however, the permitted use was heavily constrained—initially about 90 minutes of driving per day, later increased to six hours per day when Initial Operating Capability (IOC) was declared. How this was considered a viable operational capability remains unclear.

    The Ministry of Defence (MOD) and GD still do not have clarity on the long-term impact that vibration may have on the vehicle’s electronic architecture, weapon systems, engine, and other components. Despite this, IOC was declared.

    Responsibility is shared between MOD Senior Responsible Owners (SROs) and GD. The programme has been under significant political pressure. When GD was placed in contractual default and nearly £1 billion in payments was withheld, the company emphasised the potential risk to roughly 700 local jobs and about 5,000 jobs globally that were said to depend on the AJAX programme. This led to ministerial pressure on the MOD to continue pushing the programme forward.

    The "jobs" argument is a dreadful one.
    There is no job security in failing programmes.

    Pumping more billions into what is extremely likely to be a vain effort to resolve a fatally flawed design will, of course, mean less funding elsewhere for more productive and sustainable programs.

    Government can support employment. This is just about the worst way to go about it.
    FPT: I would make a broader point that any specific government intervention to "support jobs", except at a UK-wide or perhaps regional scale, is usually bad policy. The purpose of something like Ajax should be to provide the army with a new armoured vehicle - no more, no less.

    "Supporting jobs" = supporting low productivity. We want massive drone factories with only a few dozen employees. We want railways built quickly and efficiently. We want an NHS that depends less on doctors and nurses and more on technology and wider public health interventions. There are national security motivations for retaining production in the UK - but they should be linked to outcomes (e.g. new warships built per year, anywhere in the UK), not the number of people employed on the Clyde.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,820
    Fascinating piece, thanks @Gardenwalker
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,174
    edited 7:47AM
    Nigelb said:

    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?

    More extraordinary and impressive than say Harold MacMillan who when 'leading an advance platoon in the Battle of Flers–Courcelette (part of the Battle of the Somme) in September 1916, was severely wounded, and lay for over twelve hours in a shell hole, sometimes feigning death when Germans passed, and reading Aeschylus in the original Greek.'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046
    Not just closer links with Canada but Australia and New Zealand and the other Commonwealth realms would be sensible for the UK. I would dispute though that middle powers face extinction otherwise most nations would cease to exist and of course Trump may be replaced by a Democrat in just over three years
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,525
    An interesting lead, spoiled only slightly by all the American spelling
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,261
    Such ideas remind me of Neville Shutes "In the Wet" (minus the racist language), a 1950's era imagined continuity British Empire, at least of the "majority white" bits. Canada like Australia and New Zealand is independent for a reason.

    There is no need for nations to combine, indeed division of nations is more likely. There are plenty of successful countries smaller than us demographically, geographically and economically. What we do need is a rules based order and easy trading relationships (which is why the EU fitted us so well).

    No amount of Empire nostalgia is substitute for international rule of law.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,261
    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We cannot crew our existing fleet. Militarism is expensive and we are not willing to pay the dues, and when we do it is far too often on the wrong things such as the carriers and the Ajax IFV.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,776
    edited 7:57AM
    Much to agree with there Gardenwalker.

    On energy, I was having a look at some projections and the UK is set to double its electricity generation over the next 20 years or so, yet still import quite a bit from the continent as demand rockets. While we're part of the European market, and without significant subsidy, the prospect of energy autarky isn't feasible, particularly if we continue to balance intermittency using interconnectors.

    On food we are remarkably close to self-sufficiency, in a pinch. Just need to grow more veg, less sheep. On attack submarines, it's all quite hush hush but we didn't put one to sea for the CSG's recent trip, and the rumour is Trident occasionally depends on US attack subs for escort into the Atlantic. Not good.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,949

    Nigelb said:

    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?

    More extraordinary and impressive than say Harold MacMillan who when 'leading an advance platoon in the Battle of Flers–Courcelette (part of the Battle of the Somme) in September 1916, was severely wounded, and lay for over twelve hours in a shell hole, sometimes feigning death when Germans passed, and reading Aeschylus in the original Greek.'
    Macmillan had been in Parliament for over thirty years before becoming PM; Cairns hasn't even served thirty months.

    Talent will out, but... come on.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,820
    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,814
    Foxy said:

    Such ideas remind me of Neville Shutes "In the Wet" (minus the racist language), a 1950's era imagined continuity British Empire, at least of the "majority white" bits. Canada like Australia and New Zealand is independent for a reason.

    There is no need for nations to combine, indeed division of nations is more likely. There are plenty of successful countries smaller than us demographically, geographically and economically. What we do need is a rules based order and easy trading relationships (which is why the EU fitted us so well).

    No amount of Empire nostalgia is substitute for international rule of law.

    Strange that you should criticise one form of a political union by citing the supposed benefits of another, far deeper, political union.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046
    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,949

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,261

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    We have to have the matelots first...

    (And most people recieving child benefit are in work, just poor).
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,659

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,513
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    They have Quebec, we have South Kensington.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,438
    Enjoyed that, thanks GW
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,356
    edited 8:12AM
    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,645
    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    Which is still in use as the National Rail symbol. So it's the paint job that is new, not the logo.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,776
    edited 8:18AM
    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    Everything about that is horrible. The paint, the name. Reminds me of the Sensodyne RAF plane that Johnson conceived.

    There are loads of train nerds on here - what would be a good livery? Midland? Great Central?
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 345
    edited 8:20AM
    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    This primarily helps the first generation migrants, who are quite happy to be paid to do what they were going to do anyway. Populations dont have or not have because of their finances. That's a myth, it is quite clear across the west, that nations with very family friendly policies make no noticeable difference. It's down almost entirely to freedom and prosperity. When women have options, many choose something else, career, contraception, abortion, single life, or just pets. Even if they want to have children at some point, it becomes a thing for the future, not now.

    It is the countries with the poorest of financial environments that breed in large numbers. It wasnt that long ago here either that we had large families living in squalid cramped conditions. As we got richer, we wanted children less. The only stand out civilised nation that has bucked the trend is Israel.

    France has had a very very modest limited success, with a series of long standing programmes that reward giving birth, but the IFS estimates that this costs the taxpayer between 2.5 and 5 million euros per extra birth it results in. Hungary and poland alos have significant programmes designed to encourage births with a cost of over one million euros per extra child estimated.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,645
    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    "We need to find a way of coping with a declining population"

    Why try to think of ways of trying to get people to do something they don't want to, and instead face up to reality?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,356
    edited 8:20AM
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    Everything about that is horrible. The paint, the name. Reminds me of the Sensodyne RAF plane that Johnson conceived.

    There are loads of train nerds on here - what would be a good livery? Midland? Great Central?
    The Southern Railway.

    General Manager calls his four immediate subordinates into his office.

    He has a length of green cotton in his hand. Takes out a pair of scissors. Cuts it in five pieces.

    'Take one length each,' he says. 'That's the colour I want all locomotives to be from now on. And if you're in doubt, the fifth length will be in my desk drawer here for you to check.'
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,174

    Nigelb said:

    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?

    More extraordinary and impressive than say Harold MacMillan who when 'leading an advance platoon in the Battle of Flers–Courcelette (part of the Battle of the Somme) in September 1916, was severely wounded, and lay for over twelve hours in a shell hole, sometimes feigning death when Germans passed, and reading Aeschylus in the original Greek.'
    Macmillan had been in Parliament for over thirty years before becoming PM; Cairns hasn't even served thirty months.

    Talent will out, but... come on.
    I cannot stand people like him who engage in shameless self promotion, somebody should tell him self praise is no praise at all.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,261

    Foxy said:

    Such ideas remind me of Neville Shutes "In the Wet" (minus the racist language), a 1950's era imagined continuity British Empire, at least of the "majority white" bits. Canada like Australia and New Zealand is independent for a reason.

    There is no need for nations to combine, indeed division of nations is more likely. There are plenty of successful countries smaller than us demographically, geographically and economically. What we do need is a rules based order and easy trading relationships (which is why the EU fitted us so well).

    No amount of Empire nostalgia is substitute for international rule of law.

    Strange that you should criticise one form of a political union by citing the supposed benefits of another, far deeper, political union.
    The EU is successful because it combines individual constituent nations sovereignty on an international stage to give weight to international rule of law, but it isn't the only example of how we can combine with other nations in mutual interest while retaining national sovereignty. The ECHR, NATO, UN, World Bank, IMF, GATT etc are all good examples.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 345
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    I think this is the third time I've pointed out to you that the majority of households affected by the two-child limit are in work.

    Unfortunately, work simply isn't enough to keep many families out of poverty - particularly large ones. And there are some cases where a mother decided to have a large family because there were two decent jobs and a stable relationship - and have ended up single and destitute instead. This effects all of us - poverty is strongly associated with long-term health, education, crime outcomes. If I get mugged today, it will almost certainly be by someone from one of these kinds of backgrounds.
    "it will almost certainly be by someone from one of these kinds of backgrounds"

    There's certainly likely to be a kind of background.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,035
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    Everything about that is horrible. The paint, the name. Reminds me of the Sensodyne RAF plane that Johnson conceived.

    There are loads of train nerds on here - what would be a good livery? Midland? Great Central?
    The Southern Railway.

    General Manager calls his four immediate subordinates into his office.

    He has a length of green cotton in his hand. Takes out a pair of scissors. Cuts it in five pieces.

    'Take one length each,' he says. 'That's the colour I want all locomotives to be from now on. And if you're in doubt, the fifth length will be in my desk drawer here for you to check.'
    IIRC correctly the Fat Controller consults the locomotive as to colour before deciding. (I think it's Henry but I may be wrong.)

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,004
    Great read, and as so often I am ahead of the curve, having effected my own personal Anglo-Canadian Union about four years ago.

    I'm all ready for this, just say the word, Gardenwalker, and I'm off - part of the advanced guard.

    See you in Toronto.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,818
    Joining with Canada means we would be staring across the Arctic to Russia. So much for having the whole of western and eastern Europe between us.

    No thank you.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,659

    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    "We need to find a way of coping with a declining population"

    Why try to think of ways of trying to get people to do something they don't want to, and instead face up to reality?
    I'm fine with the "immigration" option with low birth rates.

    But if you choose neither, then ultimately in the long-run you're choosing a declining, ageing population. Managed decline, as per Japan.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,009
    Nigelb said:

    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?

    The propensity of political types to go all dewy eyed over ex-military pols is a wondrous thing. I even remember some PBers fangirling over Johnny Mercer before he was revealed to be a bit thick and mental.

    There’s a lot of them. Not the most inspiring list, even by the standards of our current political classes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_veterans_in_British_politics
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,035
    Re Anglo-Canada. If and when the west comes to it, it seems to me the options are politically to use the EU as the basic building block, and in military terms EuroNato+ Canada.

    Everything else either doesn't exist or is too small.

    Indeed there are only bad and worse options for if the USA continues down the spheres of influence + global autocracy model.

    Has anyone checked the UK and French box of matches for the nuclear blue touch paper recently?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,035
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Whatever the merits or otherwise of lifting the 2 child benefits limit, 59% of beneficiary families have at least one parent in work. “Benefits scroungers vs a bigger Royal Navy” is just, to coin a LuckyGuy term from above, silly. Straight out of MAGA-online.
    The bit of the model that is wrong is that significant numbers of families in work are bigly, rather than marginally, reliant on benefits at all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    We should have increased child benefit for all parents eligible rather than end the 2 child benefit cap for those on Universal Credit
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,814
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Such ideas remind me of Neville Shutes "In the Wet" (minus the racist language), a 1950's era imagined continuity British Empire, at least of the "majority white" bits. Canada like Australia and New Zealand is independent for a reason.

    There is no need for nations to combine, indeed division of nations is more likely. There are plenty of successful countries smaller than us demographically, geographically and economically. What we do need is a rules based order and easy trading relationships (which is why the EU fitted us so well).

    No amount of Empire nostalgia is substitute for international rule of law.

    Strange that you should criticise one form of a political union by citing the supposed benefits of another, far deeper, political union.
    The EU is successful because it combines individual constituent nations sovereignty on an international stage to give weight to international rule of law, but it isn't the only example of how we can combine with other nations in mutual interest while retaining national sovereignty. The ECHR, NATO, UN, World Bank, IMF, GATT etc are all good examples.
    None of those organisations are based on the concept of 'ever closer union' which is written into the EUs founding treaties.

    I mean, if you want a federal.union - which is the unchanged goal of the EU - then have the courage and honesty to argue for it rather than pretending the EU is something completely different

    As I said. It us ironic that you cite an organisation with the explicit aim of political.union to criticise another proposed union.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,004
    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,002
    edited 8:41AM
    The constitutional framework for a GB-Canada or even a CAANZUK entity already exists- all are Kings Realms, legally subject to the Crown, albeit that the Crowns of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the crown of GBNI are now basically different legal persons. Arguably that framework might be sufficient for at least establishing closer contacts and cooperation. However, the USA, now committed to a new version of the Monroe doctrine, may also take a hostile attitude to the Caribbean realms or even Canada forming closer links with GBNI.

    It is policy alignment that is key. This is not as easy as Gardenwalker suggests, not least because Canada is actually as advanced as we are in technology. Perhaps common policies can create common alignment, and the military necessities of the new multi-polar world might speak louder than local gripes.

    As someone who went to University in Canada and who has many Canadian relatives, I am aware that Canadian culture and the various cultures of GBNI are not the same, but they are rooted in some of the same traditions. However, the French Canadian and First Nations traditions as well as the mosaic of new Canadians makes Canada a distinct set of cultures, and this, by the way, is true of Australia, including the Aboriginal cultures and New Zealand, including the Te-Maori cultures too. Though we may think that we are the same, actually we are as different from them and much further away from them, as we are compared to France and Germany. The English language is the working language of the EU too, and it is not always the case in Canada, New Zealand or even Australia.

    Thus, though military and political necessity may require far greater collaboration among the Realms, it will not be easy and those that think we should work with "our own kith and kin" strongly over estimate the common feeling and maybe underestimate the practical, political and cultural differences that beset the non American anglosphere.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,107
    Ratters said:

    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    "We need to find a way of coping with a declining population"

    Why try to think of ways of trying to get people to do something they don't want to, and instead face up to reality?
    I'm fine with the "immigration" option with low birth rates.

    But if you choose neither, then ultimately in the long-run you're choosing a declining, ageing population. Managed decline, as per Japan.
    Yeah, the same people who dislike immigration are equally dismissive of managed decline. Choose a realistic mix, whatever it is, please.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,453
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Whatever the merits or otherwise of lifting the 2 child benefits limit, 59% of beneficiary families have at least one parent in work. “Benefits scroungers vs a bigger Royal Navy” is just, to coin a LuckyGuy term from above, silly. Straight out of MAGA-online.
    So 41% don’t work and those that have two jobs and one child subsidise them to sit on their arses…
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,809

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    TLDR - has Trudeau ditched Perry already then and shacked up with a Brit?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,818

    Nigelb said:

    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?

    The propensity of political types to go all dewy eyed over ex-military pols is a wondrous thing. I even remember some PBers fangirling over Johnny Mercer before he was revealed to be a bit thick and mental.

    There’s a lot of them. Not the most inspiring list, even by the standards of our current political classes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_veterans_in_British_politics
    Presumably Pete Hegseth wouldn't let Ben Obese-Jecty MP serve?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,949

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Depends how long the United States stays united. Maybe the answer to Canada's existential question is something like this;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

    As for Anglo-Canada... It's a better cultural fit than Anglo-America, or even Anglo-Australia. But there's no escaping the observation that Canada is an awfully long way away and the resulting unit is still pretty small.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Probably all of Canada except Alberta which is closer to Trump’s US and maybe Quebec which is closer to France (but still anti Trump).

    The US even under Trump does not consider Canada or the UK hostile states
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,818

    Ratters said:

    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    "We need to find a way of coping with a declining population"

    Why try to think of ways of trying to get people to do something they don't want to, and instead face up to reality?
    I'm fine with the "immigration" option with low birth rates.

    But if you choose neither, then ultimately in the long-run you're choosing a declining, ageing population. Managed decline, as per Japan.
    Yeah, the same people who dislike immigration are equally dismissive of managed decline. Choose a realistic mix, whatever it is, please.
    Breed for Britain!

    (although, we'll need to up the maternity care budget...)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Depends how long the United States stays united. Maybe the answer to Canada's existential question is something like this;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

    As for Anglo-Canada... It's a better cultural fit than Anglo-America, or even Anglo-Australia. But there's no escaping the observation that Canada is an awfully long way away and the resulting unit is still pretty small.
    Anglo-New Zealand would probably be closest of all but too small to make much of a difference
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,046
    edited 8:57AM

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Depends how long the United States stays united. Maybe the answer to Canada's existential question is something like this;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesusland_map

    As for Anglo-Canada... It's a better cultural fit than Anglo-America, or even Anglo-Australia. But there's no escaping the observation that Canada is an awfully long way away and the resulting unit is still pretty small.
    Anglo-New Zealand would probably be closest of all culturally but too small to make much of a difference
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,499
    A fascinating piece @Gardenwalker - if nothing else to hold up a mirror to our England uber Alles fantasy currently preoccupying post Brexit flag-shaggers.

    Perhaps a looser Confederation would be an easier start?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,954

    Ratters said:

    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    "We need to find a way of coping with a declining population"

    Why try to think of ways of trying to get people to do something they don't want to, and instead face up to reality?
    I'm fine with the "immigration" option with low birth rates.

    But if you choose neither, then ultimately in the long-run you're choosing a declining, ageing population. Managed decline, as per Japan.
    Yeah, the same people who dislike immigration are equally dismissive of managed decline. Choose a realistic mix, whatever it is, please.
    Breed for Britain!

    (although, we'll need to up the maternity care budget...)
    Completely confused now, I thought PB hive mind was very firmly against letting anyone breed more than 2 children because if they had 3 that proved that they were undesirable dole scroungers?

    Seriously, I suspect that if it weren't for the hiccups around those on 60-100K getting child benefit, the atmosphere would be somewhat more receptive.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,878

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    What makes you think recipients of the state pension don’t work ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,878
    Selebian said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    TLDR - has Trudeau ditched Perry already then and shacked up with a Brit?
    Apparently they went on ‘Insta’ yesterday.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,107
    Carnyx said:

    Ratters said:

    Ratters said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    "We need to improve our terrible birthrate and stop relying on immigration"

    Also

    "We need to stop helping out people in work on modest salaries who have larger families"
    "We need to find a way of coping with a declining population"

    Why try to think of ways of trying to get people to do something they don't want to, and instead face up to reality?
    I'm fine with the "immigration" option with low birth rates.

    But if you choose neither, then ultimately in the long-run you're choosing a declining, ageing population. Managed decline, as per Japan.
    Yeah, the same people who dislike immigration are equally dismissive of managed decline. Choose a realistic mix, whatever it is, please.
    Breed for Britain!

    (although, we'll need to up the maternity care budget...)
    Completely confused now, I thought PB hive mind was very firmly against letting anyone breed more than 2 children because if they had 3 that proved that they were undesirable dole scroungers?

    Seriously, I suspect that if it weren't for the hiccups around those on 60-100K getting child benefit, the atmosphere would be somewhat more receptive.
    In London and SE house prices need to come down before it stops being toxic. There is a professional middle that feel limited in the number of kids they can afford, if any. They are going to resent paying tax for others to have kids instead of them regardless of child benefit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,065
    Hmm... do we get Mark Carney as part of the deal? A vastly superior leader to any on offer here.


    And by 2045, with a first in PPE, a BPhil and a charming Canadian girlfriend from Toronto, my son might be ready for the burdens of leadership.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,026
    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    We’ve had a Canadian born prime minister before
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,949
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    What makes you think recipients of the state pension don’t work ?
    About ten percent do.

    So I'm about 5.5 times less wrong than those saying that the two child cap was about families who don't work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,954

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    We’ve had a Canadian born prime minister before
    Westminster really would have to get its collective head around the difference between devolution and actual federation, mind. (In reality, I'm sure it knows perfectly well. It just doesn't want to admit it openly.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,474
    edited 9:09AM

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Good morning

    Our family embraced UK - Canadian ties when our eldest son married a Canadian and moved to Vancouver in 2015

    Canada is a vast country and to inform @HYUFD Vancouver is just 32 miles from the US border and is very different in attitudes to Eastern Canada

    British Columbia has just recommenced it's relationship with China, having fallen out over spying issues, and it seems so far away from the UK in culture in many ways but still retains an affection for the UK

    I see no problem with closer ties, but at present Carney has far more pressing problems with the need for Canada to develop its mineral and oil wealth irrespective of climate change issues

    Of course there is still the Commonwealth though it seems quite more morabund at present
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274

    Nigelb said:

    Off topic betting post.
    This seems rather (extremely) unlikely, but another straw in the wind.

    Former Marine Emerges As Surprise Name In Race To Succeed Keir Starmer
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/al-carns-surprise-name-labour-leadership
    ...PoliticsHome understands that the Labour MP for Birmingham Selly Oak considered a bid to succeed Angela Rayner as deputy Labour leader when she resigned from cabinet over unpaid stamp duty in September. In the end, he backed Education Secretary Bridget Phillipson for the role, while also earning a promotion to the Ministry of Defence in the reshuffle.

    Now, Labour MPs have told PoliticsHome that Carns has been sounding out support amid a growing feeling within the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) that it is when, not if, the Prime Minister faces a challenge to his leadership.

    “He [Carns] is the most extraordinary man and would be the most impressive leader this country has ever had”, said one particularly supportive Labour MP*..



    *that wouldn't be Carns himself, would it ?

    More extraordinary and impressive than say Harold MacMillan who when 'leading an advance platoon in the Battle of Flers–Courcelette (part of the Battle of the Somme) in September 1916, was severely wounded, and lay for over twelve hours in a shell hole, sometimes feigning death when Germans passed, and reading Aeschylus in the original Greek.'
    Macmillan had been in Parliament for over thirty years before becoming PM; Cairns hasn't even served thirty months.

    Talent will out, but... come on.
    I cannot stand people like him who engage in shameless self promotion, somebody should tell him self praise is no praise at all.
    If the D&G fits...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,424

    Whilst well written, and organised into paragraphs of a digestible length, I find the whole basis of this header rather silly. And its silliness feeds equally into the Brexit argument. Rather like a person seeking a relationship to fix them, this is another outside solution to an inside job. Britain (and possibly Canada too, I wouldn't know) has serious issues - a porous border, massive social welfare spending, top-heavy demographics, an unproductive and ideologically driven administrative class, the highest energy costs in the developed world, and underpinning all this, a fundamentally ungovernable system of quangos and courts, that make building, investing, and growing a business in Britain almost impossible. Why don't we deal with some of those things (preferably all of them) and then take score, rather than desparately seeking international partnerships as some sort of sticking plaster?

    You complain about a “porous border” and about “top-heavy demographics”, yet immigration helps solve top-heavy demographics. Not that we have a porous border: immigration is way down on the Boriswave, and the number of undocumented migrants is comparable to our neighbours. Talk of an “ideologically driven administrative class” is just a conspiracy theory, and you say they are unproductive, but some administration is necessary. We have far fewer administrators in, say, healthcare than somewhere like the US. There is nothing ungovernable about our courts of quangos. Our courts are less independent than those under a Napoleonic code or the Byzantine US system with its omnipotent Supreme Court. Plenty of British companies are building, investing and growing all the time, and GDP growth is also comparable with our neighbours.

    Yes, there is plenty to fix at home, but we’re not living in a dystopia.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,498
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This post makes good points about the Ajax disaster.

    https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1997728259585233266
    Questions should also be raised when the programme is described as a firm-price contract of approximately £5.4 billion, and when delays are framed as “not over budget, just late.” For example: who funded the User Validation Trials (UVT) at Millbrook Proving Ground? These trials were required to independently demonstrate to General Dynamics (GD) that issues existed with the vehicle. GD did not cover the cost; the public did. Taxpayers ultimately paid to provide evidence that the platform had faults.

    GD’s response to the identified vibration issues was a “comfort pack,” which mounted crew controls and seating on rubber isolators to reduce vibration exposure. The company then asserted that the issue was resolved. During UVT, however, the permitted use was heavily constrained—initially about 90 minutes of driving per day, later increased to six hours per day when Initial Operating Capability (IOC) was declared. How this was considered a viable operational capability remains unclear.

    The Ministry of Defence (MOD) and GD still do not have clarity on the long-term impact that vibration may have on the vehicle’s electronic architecture, weapon systems, engine, and other components. Despite this, IOC was declared.

    Responsibility is shared between MOD Senior Responsible Owners (SROs) and GD. The programme has been under significant political pressure. When GD was placed in contractual default and nearly £1 billion in payments was withheld, the company emphasised the potential risk to roughly 700 local jobs and about 5,000 jobs globally that were said to depend on the AJAX programme. This led to ministerial pressure on the MOD to continue pushing the programme forward.

    The "jobs" argument is a dreadful one.
    There is no job security in failing programmes.

    Pumping more billions into what is extremely likely to be a vain effort to resolve a fatally flawed design will, of course, mean less funding elsewhere for more productive and sustainable programs.

    Government can support employment. This is just about the worst way to go about it.
    FPT: I would make a broader point that any specific government intervention to "support jobs", except at a UK-wide or perhaps regional scale, is usually bad policy. The purpose of something like Ajax should be to provide the army with a new armoured vehicle - no more, no less.

    "Supporting jobs" = supporting low productivity. We want massive drone factories with only a few dozen employees. We want railways built quickly and efficiently. We want an NHS that depends less on doctors and nurses and more on technology and wider public health interventions. There are national security motivations for retaining production in the UK - but they should be linked to outcomes (e.g. new warships built per year, anywhere in the UK), not the number of people employed on the Clyde.
    A Labour MP was making the jobs argument in the Commons just yesterday in favour of ploughing on with the rolling disaster.
    If it's that important they'd be better off cancelling the contract, buying the redundant factory off GDLS for a nominal price, and retooling it to manufacture the CV90.

    Spending billions on propping up failure ends only one way.
    Yes - reminiscent of Jeremy Corbyn's 'build the submarines but don't arm them' approach.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,498
    Good article by the way - I'd be supportive of that if Canada would. Perhaps the Nordics would like to join in?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    We’ve had a Canadian born prime minister before
    Bonar Law ?

    Crazy name; crazy guy.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,129
    Nigelb said:

    Cracking header, btw.

    My minor adjustment would render its argument irrefutable.

    Careful now, half of Canada speaks French.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,016
    edited 9:22AM

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Good morning

    Our family embraced UK - Canadian ties when our eldest son married a Canadian and moved to Vancouver in 2015

    Canada is a vast country and to inform @HYUFD Vancouver is just 32 miles from the US border and is very different in attitudes to Eastern Canada

    British Columbia has just recommenced it's relationship with China, having fallen out over spying issues, and it seems so far away from the UK in culture in many ways but still retains an affection for the UK

    I see no problem with closer ties, but at present Carney has far more pressing problems with the need for Canada to develop its mineral and oil wealth irrespective of climate change issues

    Of course there is still the Commonwealth though it seems quite more morabund at present
    I never quite understand your dismissal of "climate change issues". Do you actually want our coastal towns, cities and agricultural land to vanish under the waves over the next few hundred years? I'm a Midlander, so I can see that it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it still seems a bit harsh.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,129
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This post makes good points about the Ajax disaster.

    https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1997728259585233266
    Questions should also be raised when the programme is described as a firm-price contract of approximately £5.4 billion, and when delays are framed as “not over budget, just late.” For example: who funded the User Validation Trials (UVT) at Millbrook Proving Ground? These trials were required to independently demonstrate to General Dynamics (GD) that issues existed with the vehicle. GD did not cover the cost; the public did. Taxpayers ultimately paid to provide evidence that the platform had faults.

    GD’s response to the identified vibration issues was a “comfort pack,” which mounted crew controls and seating on rubber isolators to reduce vibration exposure. The company then asserted that the issue was resolved. During UVT, however, the permitted use was heavily constrained—initially about 90 minutes of driving per day, later increased to six hours per day when Initial Operating Capability (IOC) was declared. How this was considered a viable operational capability remains unclear.

    The Ministry of Defence (MOD) and GD still do not have clarity on the long-term impact that vibration may have on the vehicle’s electronic architecture, weapon systems, engine, and other components. Despite this, IOC was declared.

    Responsibility is shared between MOD Senior Responsible Owners (SROs) and GD. The programme has been under significant political pressure. When GD was placed in contractual default and nearly £1 billion in payments was withheld, the company emphasised the potential risk to roughly 700 local jobs and about 5,000 jobs globally that were said to depend on the AJAX programme. This led to ministerial pressure on the MOD to continue pushing the programme forward.

    The "jobs" argument is a dreadful one.
    There is no job security in failing programmes.

    Pumping more billions into what is extremely likely to be a vain effort to resolve a fatally flawed design will, of course, mean less funding elsewhere for more productive and sustainable programs.

    Government can support employment. This is just about the worst way to go about it.
    FPT: I would make a broader point that any specific government intervention to "support jobs", except at a UK-wide or perhaps regional scale, is usually bad policy. The purpose of something like Ajax should be to provide the army with a new armoured vehicle - no more, no less.

    "Supporting jobs" = supporting low productivity. We want massive drone factories with only a few dozen employees. We want railways built quickly and efficiently. We want an NHS that depends less on doctors and nurses and more on technology and wider public health interventions. There are national security motivations for retaining production in the UK - but they should be linked to outcomes (e.g. new warships built per year, anywhere in the UK), not the number of people employed on the Clyde.
    A Labour MP was making the jobs argument in the Commons just yesterday in favour of ploughing on with the rolling disaster.
    If it's that important they'd be better off cancelling the contract, buying the redundant factory off GDLS for a nominal price, and retooling it to manufacture the CV90.

    Spending billions on propping up failure ends only one way.
    Yes - reminiscent of Jeremy Corbyn's 'build the submarines but don't arm them' approach.
    Whereas what we've actually done is build and arm the submarines, and hope no-one noticed that whenever we test them, the missiles don't work.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,450
    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    The BR logo is perhaps the most brilliant piece of graphic design of the modern era, I have no complaints about seeing more of it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,474

    HYUFD said:

    Battlebus said:

    Brexit has crystallised the issue of British identity. Who are we and what are we for? There was merit in being in the EU for trade but our vastly different legal system does not sit well within the Code Napoleon of most of Europe. We are now adrift. GW's idea of seeking out a political alignment with a country with a similar Common Law basis has merit as a point of discussion but it seems unambitious. Surely the prize is to merge with the US which has far more resources than Canada. After all, the US President has far stronger links to the UK than a transient banker.

    Good, timely article GW. Hope it puts the Brexit discussion to bed (I hope)

    Culturally the UK is far closer to Carney's Canada than Trump's USA
    Which Canada - Vancouver or Calgary? Toronto or Winnipeg? And wouldn't Montreal be closer to Paris than London?

    It's a nice dream and I'm up for it personally, but do we really think an isolationist and unpredictable USA is going to sit by while its nearest neighbour forges military alliances with potentially hostile states?
    Good morning

    Our family embraced UK - Canadian ties when our eldest son married a Canadian and moved to Vancouver in 2015

    Canada is a vast country and to inform @HYUFD Vancouver is just 32 miles from the US border and is very different in attitudes to Eastern Canada

    British Columbia has just recommenced it's relationship with China, having fallen out over spying issues, and it seems so far away from the UK in culture in many ways but still retains an affection for the UK

    I see no problem with closer ties, but at present Carney has far more pressing problems with the need for Canada to develop its mineral and oil wealth irrespective of climate change issues

    Of course there is still the Commonwealth though it seems quite more morabund at present
    I never quite understand your dismissal of "climate change issues". Do you actually want to see our coastal towns, cities and agricultural land vanish under the waves over the next few hundred years? I'm a Midlander, so I can see that it wouldn't be the end of the world, but it still seems a bit harsh.
    It is not my dismissal but a necessity for Carney and Canada following the schism with the US, and outlined by our son and daughter in law's comments on their visit here last month
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,701
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This post makes good points about the Ajax disaster.

    https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1997728259585233266
    Questions should also be raised when the programme is described as a firm-price contract of approximately £5.4 billion, and when delays are framed as “not over budget, just late.” For example: who funded the User Validation Trials (UVT) at Millbrook Proving Ground? These trials were required to independently demonstrate to General Dynamics (GD) that issues existed with the vehicle. GD did not cover the cost; the public did. Taxpayers ultimately paid to provide evidence that the platform had faults.

    GD’s response to the identified vibration issues was a “comfort pack,” which mounted crew controls and seating on rubber isolators to reduce vibration exposure. The company then asserted that the issue was resolved. During UVT, however, the permitted use was heavily constrained—initially about 90 minutes of driving per day, later increased to six hours per day when Initial Operating Capability (IOC) was declared. How this was considered a viable operational capability remains unclear.

    The Ministry of Defence (MOD) and GD still do not have clarity on the long-term impact that vibration may have on the vehicle’s electronic architecture, weapon systems, engine, and other components. Despite this, IOC was declared.

    Responsibility is shared between MOD Senior Responsible Owners (SROs) and GD. The programme has been under significant political pressure. When GD was placed in contractual default and nearly £1 billion in payments was withheld, the company emphasised the potential risk to roughly 700 local jobs and about 5,000 jobs globally that were said to depend on the AJAX programme. This led to ministerial pressure on the MOD to continue pushing the programme forward.

    The "jobs" argument is a dreadful one.
    There is no job security in failing programmes.

    Pumping more billions into what is extremely likely to be a vain effort to resolve a fatally flawed design will, of course, mean less funding elsewhere for more productive and sustainable programs.

    Government can support employment. This is just about the worst way to go about it.
    FPT: I would make a broader point that any specific government intervention to "support jobs", except at a UK-wide or perhaps regional scale, is usually bad policy. The purpose of something like Ajax should be to provide the army with a new armoured vehicle - no more, no less.

    "Supporting jobs" = supporting low productivity. We want massive drone factories with only a few dozen employees. We want railways built quickly and efficiently. We want an NHS that depends less on doctors and nurses and more on technology and wider public health interventions. There are national security motivations for retaining production in the UK - but they should be linked to outcomes (e.g. new warships built per year, anywhere in the UK), not the number of people employed on the Clyde.
    It can be useful during extended periods of peacetime to maintain industrial skills and equipment required for war, but we’re no longer in an extended period of peacetime and need to be preparing for war.

    The NHS I’m convinced is unreformable at this point, much of the administration could be easily automated if it was broken down into small chunks and systems worked to defined communications and data protocols.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274
    I finally understand Leon's claims.

    Trump: In many cases, you need about 185 IQ to turn on a lawnmower.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1998118443917455595
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,954

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    What makes you think recipients of the state pension don’t work ?
    About ten percent do.

    So I'm about 5.5 times less wrong than those saying that the two child cap was about families who don't work.
    I'm sure a fair proportion of those Services pensioners who take their pension at 55 also work (not sure how many defer, though).
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,004
    Cicero said:

    The constitutional framework for a GB-Canada or even a CAANZUK entity already exists- all are Kings Realms, legally subject to the Crown, albeit that the Crowns of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the crown of GBNI are now basically different legal persons. Arguably that framework might be sufficient for at least establishing closer contacts and cooperation. However, the USA, now committed to a new version of the Monroe doctrine, may also take a hostile attitude to the Caribbean realms or even Canada forming closer links with GBNI.

    It is policy alignment that is key. This is not as easy as Gardenwalker suggests, not least because Canada is actually as advanced as we are in technology. Perhaps common policies can create common alignment, and the military necessities of the new multi-polar world might speak louder than local gripes.

    As someone who went to University in Canada and who has many Canadian relatives, I am aware that Canadian culture and the various cultures of GBNI are not the same, but they are rooted in some of the same traditions. However, the French Canadian and First Nations traditions as well as the mosaic of new Canadians makes Canada a distinct set of cultures, and this, by the way, is true of Australia, including the Aboriginal cultures and New Zealand, including the Te-Maori cultures too. Though we may think that we are the same, actually we are as different from them and much further away from them, as we are compared to France and Germany. The English language is the working language of the EU too, and it is not always the case in Canada, New Zealand or even Australia.

    Thus, though military and political necessity may require far greater collaboration among the Realms, it will not be easy and those that think we should work with "our own kith and kin" strongly over estimate the common feeling and maybe underestimate the practical, political and cultural differences that beset the non American anglosphere.

    Stop being sensisble, Cicero. It was a lovely piece and a refreshing rejoinder to Trump's hubristic threat to absorb his northern neighbour.

    Maybe it's not so dumb though...you take Toronto and we nuke New York?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,642
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Whatever the merits or otherwise of lifting the 2 child benefits limit, 59% of beneficiary families have at least one parent in work. “Benefits scroungers vs a bigger Royal Navy” is just, to coin a LuckyGuy term from above, silly. Straight out of MAGA-online.
    Given that the employment rate for 16-64 is 75% that suggests they are significantly less likely to be working than the average.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,954

    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    The BR logo is perhaps the most brilliant piece of graphic design of the modern era, I have no complaints about seeing more of it.
    It's also become the recognised logo/ideogram for a railway in GB: just look at any Google map where the stations are. Sort of like Hoover (TM) for vacuum cleaners.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,672
    Morning all :)

    Nice scenario - it all sounds a bit like the CANZUK idea being floated around not so long ago.

    It does ask the important question as to Britain's place in a changing world - the Kensington Treaty marks perhaps the beginning of a new non-economic engagement with Europe i.e: outside the EU. If we take that much-derided (often unfairly) organisation and six decades of angst and anguish out of the equation (not easy), the reality of our geographical position dictates a strategic relationship with Europe so we can work with Europe without being part of Europe.

    It's long been recognised America's geo-strategic focus will shift increasingly to the Pacific with the Atlantic seen as an irrelevant backwater. We've been fortunate that hasn't happened much until now but even after Trump and MAGA are in the dust, America will have China to consider and Chinese intentions to counter - a future POTUS, especially one from the West Coast, may have little time for Europe and European concerns.

    The key will be flexibility and especially in thinking - we may need to adapt quickly and effectively to sudden global power shifts in ways we've not had to for decades - 1989, for example, caught everyone out with conservatives, socialists and liberals all floundering to make sense of what was happening in Central and Eastern Europe and what it meant and would mean.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,498
    edited 9:35AM

    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    The BR logo is perhaps the most brilliant piece of graphic design of the modern era, I have no complaints about seeing more of it.
    It's very effective, certainly. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's beautiful, but it's not ugly. Entirely functional, and there is a place in the world for that. And I agree - a great piece of graphic design.
    On modern graphic design, I have a peculiar fondness for the polite sans-serif sentence case font used on British road signs. Always makes me feel glad to be home when coming back from abroad, where the road signs shout at you in block capitals. (Of course, old-fashioned British signposts which you still see from time to time in rural areas are even more beautiful, though perhaps less practical when moving at 30mph or more.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274
    On topic, sort of.

    Matt Gurney: 'We will never fucking trust you again'
    Some blunt talk for our American neighbours at the Halifax International Security Forum.
    https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucking
    ..The forum is an annual gathering of senior military officers, defence and intelligence officials from across the free world, and representatives from the media, think tanks, large companies and civil society organizations whose work relates to defence and security issues or in some way seeks to promote and preserve a healthy democratic world. Funded by NATO, the Canadian government and private-sector sponsors, the event is a major part of Canada’s “soft power” offering to our allies — we host the big party and show everybody a good time. The actual schedule is split between on-the-record panel talks or presentations, off-the-record sessions, and informal time for mingling and schmoozing. I am grateful to have been invited to participate again this year.

    Especially this year. I’ve been going to the forum for years, and the event always had a strongly American flavour.

    Not anymore! Yankee went home.

    Like, literally. He was ordered to go home, or stay there. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth ordered the Pentagon to avoid a series of high-profile annual defence summits. That includes Halifax, and others in places like Munich and Singapore, and even inside the United States itself. The reason, according to the Pentagon’s press apparatus, was that, and I swear to God this is the actual quote, such events promote “the evil of globalism, disdain for our great country and hatred for the president of the United States.”

    Oh. Well, then...

    ..Let me be clear about one thing: there were indeed a great many Americans at the forum in Halifax. I don’t want to suggest otherwise. There was a large Congressional Delegation, or a “CODEL,” present at the forum, as there is every year. If anything, I think this year had an unusually large CODEL. And it was a bipartisan one, too. But I noticed something interesting. They were all senators. No House reps. I can’t help but suspect that’s because they’re either planning to retire (some have said already they will) or because the longer six-year term afforded senators gives them some ability to withstand White House anger that House reps, with two-year terms, don’t have.

    There were plenty of other Americans from private companies, think tanks, academia, and many former and retired U.S. government officials. And I’m going to be extremely careful in how I describe this: I have a pretty good hunch that some U.S. military officers were indeed in attendance, because — gosh! what a coincidence! — they just happened to be in Halifax on vacation at the exact same time the forum was taking place...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,274
    edited 9:38AM
    Nigelb said:

    On topic, sort of.

    Matt Gurney: 'We will never fucking trust you again'
    Some blunt talk for our American neighbours at the Halifax International Security Forum.
    https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucking
    ..The forum is an annual gathering of senior military officers, defence and intelligence officials from across the free world, and representatives from the media, think tanks, large companies and civil society organizations whose work relates to defence and security issues or in some way seeks to promote and preserve a healthy democratic world. Funded by NATO, the Canadian government and private-sector sponsors, the event is a major part of Canada’s “soft power” offering to our allies — we host the big party and show everybody a good time. The actual schedule is split between on-the-record panel talks or presentations, off-the-record sessions, and informal time for mingling and schmoozing. I am grateful to have been invited to participate again this year.

    Especially this year. I’ve been going to the forum for years, and the event always had a strongly American flavour.

    Not anymore! Yankee went home.

    Like, literally. He was ordered to go home, or stay there. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth ordered the Pentagon to avoid a series of high-profile annual defence summits. That includes Halifax, and others in places like Munich and Singapore, and even inside the United States itself. The reason, according to the Pentagon’s press apparatus, was that, and I swear to God this is the actual quote, such events promote “the evil of globalism, disdain for our great country and hatred for the president of the United States.”

    Oh. Well, then...

    ..Let me be clear about one thing: there were indeed a great many Americans at the forum in Halifax. I don’t want to suggest otherwise. There was a large Congressional Delegation, or a “CODEL,” present at the forum, as there is every year. If anything, I think this year had an unusually large CODEL. And it was a bipartisan one, too. But I noticed something interesting. They were all senators. No House reps. I can’t help but suspect that’s because they’re either planning to retire (some have said already they will) or because the longer six-year term afforded senators gives them some ability to withstand White House anger that House reps, with two-year terms, don’t have.

    There were plenty of other Americans from private companies, think tanks, academia, and many former and retired U.S. government officials. And I’m going to be extremely careful in how I describe this: I have a pretty good hunch that some U.S. military officers were indeed in attendance, because — gosh! what a coincidence! — they just happened to be in Halifax on vacation at the exact same time the forum was taking place...

    ..I was glad to see these Americans and had many fascinating chats with them. But I have to tell you all, dear readers, that the lack of official U.S. military and government representation was very obvious. And those brave Americans who did attend did not have an easy time...

    ...I worry that I might have been a bit brash with my American dining companions that night. (If any of them are reading this and if I was, sorry. Lot goin’ on over here.) But before I could worry about it too much, a senior military officer from a major (non-American) allied nation drove a stake right through the heart of the matter.

    America has blown 80 years of accumulated goodwill and trust among its allies, our American moderator was told. A rock-steady assumption of allied defence and security planning for literally generations has been that America would act in its own interests, sure, but that those interests would be rational, and would still generally value the institutions that America itself worked so hard to build after the Second World War. America’s recent actions have destroyed the ability of any ally to continue to have faith in America to act even within its own strategic self-interest, let alone that of any ally.

    The officer then said that even a swift return of America to its former role won’t matter.

    Because “we will never fucking trust you again.”

    The Americans at the table seemed somewhat startled by the heat of that pronouncement. I agreed with it entirely. So, it seemed to me, did most of the non-Americans.

    This wasn’t the only such moment at the forum this year, but it was, to me, the most interesting. And it was still being talked about the next day. “Thank God,” one allied official said to me. “Someone had to tell them.”


    If there’s one thing I think people should take from my visit to Halifax, it’s that. America’s former role is gone. And I think that Americans themselves are having the hardest time of all coming to terms with what that might actually mean in the long run.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,129
    Trader wins court battle over bonus after boss tells him: ‘F--- you, sue me’
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/08/trader-wins-court-battle-over-bonus-after-boss-tells-him/ (£££)

    A poor, downtrodden hedge fund trader had to sue to get a £4 million bonus. London's shoe shops are on red alert.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,642
    Doesn't Carney realise that the future is supposed to be EverCloserUnion on a continental scale ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,878

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    A fair test of who reads the header before commenting! Also, nice idea but Britain is nowhere near Canada and the Royal Navy is nowhere near big enough to defend Canadian waters.

    We need a bigger Royal Navy
    We've just decided to increase spending on families who don't work by £4bn.
    Most of the families affected by the two child cap have got an adult in work.

    Or are you thinking of pensioners?
    What makes you think recipients of the state pension don’t work ?
    About ten percent do.

    So I'm about 5.5 times less wrong than those saying that the two child cap was about families who don't work.
    So a large chunk of the increase is going to people not in work and many in work do the bare minimum so as not to lose their benefits. Pay people to be idle and they will be 👍 That is, largely, down to the system. It needs reforming. Incentives matter. I do not blame the economically idle on receipt of UC for not wanting to work more than what they can get away with. Incentives matter.

    The state pension is, of course, contribution based so the pensioners you show your disdain for have contribute to the system to take something out irrespective of the rights and wrongs of it.

    However it is very PB and very Victorian for people to radiate their worthiness on the so called virtuous poor and show their disdain for those doing the heavy lifting or have done in the past to pay for them.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,450
    Cookie said:

    ydoethur said:

    WTAF is Heidi Alexander smoking, and where can I get some?

    Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander said that the new design "isn't just a paint job", and that it represents "a new railway, casting off the frustrations of the past and focused entirely on delivering a proper public service for passengers".

    As she reintroduces the *BR* logo...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g9kx0je10o

    The BR logo is perhaps the most brilliant piece of graphic design of the modern era, I have no complaints about seeing more of it.
    It's very effective, certainly. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's beautiful, but it's not ugly. Entirely functional, and there is a place in the world for that. And I agree - a great piece of graphic design.
    On modern graphic design, I have a peculiar fondness for the polite sans-serif sentence case font used on British road signs. Always makes me feel glad to be home when coming back from abroad, where the road signs shout at you in block capitals. (Of course, old-fashioned British signposts which you still see from time to time in rural areas are even more beautiful, though perhaps less practical when moving at 30mph or more.)
    Agreed, that font is a thing of beauty. Road signs in other countries often look horrific (American ones are the ugliest I have ever seen, obvs) but ours are wonderfully civilised as you say.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,878
    I see the train livery is red, white and blue.

    Nice one.

    That will wind up the ‘you’re all flag shaggers’ if you like our flag brigade a treat 👍

    It would be nice if the service from York to Newcastle was actually run competently. Last three times we’ve gone to use it the trains have been cancelled.
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