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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,246

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I do, more than my wife.

    (When I was on a diet I sometimes ate raw tofu from the pack, though...)

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,256
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    Every day. I rarely spend more than twenty minutes on it. Because it's easy and quick, and the food is at least as good as in most restaurants, I rarely eat out and almost never have takeaway or ready meals.
    I only cook properly like once a week, but there can be a condescending approach taken sometimes wherein it is treated as something people find hard to understand and if only they were educated more on it, which doesn't feel right to me - plenty of things are very simple, and inexpensive to boot, and time - or more accurately the fear of how much time it would take - is a bigger put off.
    I tend to batch cook at the weekend and eat left overs etc during the week. I did a 2 kg roast beef on Saturday, and still a fair bit left for another night. Most nights I chuck together a mixed salad from fridge staples.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,060
    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:
    PART 1: THE ARTICLE
    Yes, @viewcode is and it's in the toilets. It's currently on its fifth draft and is 1,9XX words long not including the appendices, so I'll have to kill my darlings, including the Shaun Of The Dead reference.

    I invited four discussants on to discuss the article. "Discussants" is an old technique you don't see much around these days, where you give a lecture/report and then two groups discuss, pro- and con. Two of my discussants (@NigelB and @kyf_100 ) from the pro-trans direction, and another two (@Cyclefree and @DavidL) from the gender-critical direction. Problem is, due to her personal circs @Cyclefree cannot contribute much, and @DavidL has not yet responded. Also @NigelB and @kyf100 are not lawyers and have pointed out that this makes it imbalanced.

    To cure this I propose the following
    • i) Nudge @DavidL: sir you don't have to be a discussant if you don't want to, but I would be grateful if you could tell me yea or nay
    • ii) Is there somebody from the the pro-trans direction (or at least not explicitly gender-critical) with legal experience who would like to be a discussant?
    • iii) @turbotubbs, if @Cyclefree can't play can I get you in as a substitute?
    PART 2: THE PEGGIE CASE
    I have not yet studied the case in depth but I do note that the judges in both Peggie and Kelly gave weight to the number of objectors, which means I may be able to incorporate it in the Kelly section
    Popped in this afternoon just to see if you were already on the case, pun intended. Glad to see you are!

    The trouble with all this stuff is the speed at which it moves. That, and following it in depth is a full time job in itself (a mere 312 page judgement to read tonight!).

    When you started your article, it was fairly rational (albeit disputed) to reach a conclusion, legally speaking that trans women are a) legally 'men' for the purpose of the EA and b) legally excluded from single sex spaces.

    In the space of a week, we have not one but two judgements (Kelly v Leonardo, Peggie v NHS Fife) that seem to suggest, at least, that (b) is incorrect.

    To complicate matters further, the Good Law Project expect their judicial review into the EHRC's draft guidance to be handed down over the next few weeks.

    This is why I'm rather more interested in the political debate than the letter of the law. The law is just a set of rules that can change. Politics is what those rules mean, in practice, and how we as a society choose to balance conflicting, even oppositional views (enter proportionality, stage left...).
    Noted. Considering changing rooms and toilets

    Changing rooms
    IIUC the SC Judgment FWS was clear on changing rooms: the answer is "no access for TW". Peggie seems to have modified that, and now the answer seems to be "access is permitted unless somebody objects, and then withdrawn until the objection is resolved". Which brings me to...

    Toilets
    My article tries to address whether toilet access comes under FWS (there is disagreement) and the more I read the more I think there is no consensus and it will have to wait until Govt resolves the EHRC guidance. Kelly added a quirk which Peggie echoed, namely the weight of numbers - the number of objectors is relevant and a single objector is insufficient. This surprised me.

    Apparently Peggie also rejects the interpretation that FWS directly addressed toilets, saying that if it had meant toilets it would have said so. I agree with that, but I can't deny that many lawyers says it does.
    One small but important correction - an employment tribunal decision cannot change the law as set out in the SC court. The SC is the apex court. Employment tribunal decisions do not even have to be followed. It is only when you get to the Employment Appeal Tribunal that their decisions become binding on lower courts but they themselves are bound by the decisions of the higher courts.

    Whether the ETs have correctly interpreted the SC decision or swerved past it is another matter. The Kelly v Leonardo case is being appealed. I expect the Peggie case will be too.
    I have yet to read the decision itself but the press summary provides a very surprising explanation as to how the FWS case has been dealt with. My instinctive reaction was that they had not applied it correctly but in fairness there may be more detail in the decision that makes it more comprehensible.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,955

    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:
    PART 1: THE ARTICLE
    Yes, @viewcode is and it's in the toilets. It's currently on its fifth draft and is 1,9XX words long not including the appendices, so I'll have to kill my darlings, including the Shaun Of The Dead reference.

    I invited four discussants on to discuss the article. "Discussants" is an old technique you don't see much around these days, where you give a lecture/report and then two groups discuss, pro- and con. Two of my discussants (@NigelB and @kyf_100 ) from the pro-trans direction, and another two (@Cyclefree and @DavidL) from the gender-critical direction. Problem is, due to her personal circs @Cyclefree cannot contribute much, and @DavidL has not yet responded. Also @NigelB and @kyf100 are not lawyers and have pointed out that this makes it imbalanced.

    To cure this I propose the following
    • i) Nudge @DavidL: sir you don't have to be a discussant if you don't want to, but I would be grateful if you could tell me yea or nay
    • ii) Is there somebody from the the pro-trans direction (or at least not explicitly gender-critical) with legal experience who would like to be a discussant?
    • iii) @turbotubbs, if @Cyclefree can't play can I get you in as a substitute?
    PART 2: THE PEGGIE CASE
    I have not yet studied the case in depth but I do note that the judges in both Peggie and Kelly gave weight to the number of objectors, which means I may be able to incorporate it in the Kelly section
    Popped in this afternoon just to see if you were already on the case, pun intended. Glad to see you are!

    The trouble with all this stuff is the speed at which it moves. That, and following it in depth is a full time job in itself (a mere 312 page judgement to read tonight!).

    When you started your article, it was fairly rational (albeit disputed) to reach a conclusion, legally speaking that trans women are a) legally 'men' for the purpose of the EA and b) legally excluded from single sex spaces.

    In the space of a week, we have not one but two judgements (Kelly v Leonardo, Peggie v NHS Fife) that seem to suggest, at least, that (b) is incorrect.

    To complicate matters further, the Good Law Project expect their judicial review into the EHRC's draft guidance to be handed down over the next few weeks.

    This is why I'm rather more interested in the political debate than the letter of the law. The law is just a set of rules that can change. Politics is what those rules mean, in practice, and how we as a society choose to balance conflicting, even oppositional views (enter proportionality, stage left...).
    Noted. Considering changing rooms and toilets

    Changing rooms
    IIUC the SC Judgment FWS was clear on changing rooms: the answer is "no access for TW". Peggie seems to have modified that, and now the answer seems to be "access is permitted unless somebody objects, and then withdrawn until the objection is resolved". Which brings me to...

    Toilets
    My article tries to address whether toilet access comes under FWS (there is disagreement) and the more I read the more I think there is no consensus and it will have to wait until Govt resolves the EHRC guidance. Kelly added a quirk which Peggie echoed, namely the weight of numbers - the number of objectors is relevant and a single objector is insufficient. This surprised me.

    Apparently Peggie also rejects the interpretation that FWS directly addressed toilets, saying that if it had meant toilets it would have said so. I agree with that, but I can't deny that many lawyers says it does.
    I really think that's rather appalling. A woman must put herself out there as some sort of complaining prude to avoid having men in her changing room or loo. And even when she does, that might not be enough. Will the woman's feelings of disquiet and discomfort at the presence of biological males be enough, or must there be an 'act' or 'event' that the complainant will need to provide evidence of?

    I don't really see how it can be satisfactory for the self-identified women (or men) either. You're allowed to be somewhere until someone else dislikes it and makes a complaint? It's a recipe for workplace conflict and resentment, that makes these people into front line cannon fodder in a culture war.

    What foolish, ideologically-driven judgements.
    At some point men, including all those crowing tonight, need to engage with why women need single sex spaces and why denying them dignity, privacy and security and the right to say "No" to a man is essential to women.

    Meanwhile all those who think that what men want they should get and that women are not entitled to such to basic rights and have no right to say no to a man can enjoy your victory for now. But men who think that a woman is not entitled to say no, who think that women are not entitled to be safe, to have dignity or privacy, who think that women are obliged to get undressed in front of a men if he demands it, are saying that they think women are not fully human beings entitled as of right to what men take for granted but wish to deny women. They create the sea in which male predators flourish. And if single sex ie male free spaces are not permitted then women will be forced back into the home or forced to endure sexual assaults of all kinds if they go out of it. Those men who think like that are disgusting and should be ashamed of themselves. This debate has shown how many men do think like this and how widespread they are in all sorts of places, including - I'm sorry to say - this forum.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,246
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    How could you not, Cookie ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,594
    edited December 8
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    Every day. I rarely spend more than twenty minutes on it. Because it's easy and quick, and the food is at least as good as in most restaurants, I rarely eat out and almost never have takeaway or ready meals.
    I only cook properly like once a week, but there can be a condescending approach taken sometimes wherein it is treated as something people find hard to understand and if only they were educated more on it, which doesn't feel right to me - plenty of things are very simple, and inexpensive to boot, and time - or more accurately the fear of how much time it would take - is a bigger put off.
    Absolutely. Whenever this topic comes up online I find myself trying to educate people who claim I can't cook, or it's too much bother, and I say just cook an omelette. All you have to do is push a couple of eggs around a frying pan over moderate heat and it literally takes three minutes. Do that and you will have a dish of sophistication, which won't be bettered in any restaurant
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,568
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    Now I understand your handle.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,565
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    Every day. I rarely spend more than twenty minutes on it. Because it's easy and quick, and the food is at least as good as in most restaurants, I rarely eat out and almost never have takeaway or ready meals.
    I only cook properly like once a week, but there can be a condescending approach taken sometimes wherein it is treated as something people find hard to understand and if only they were educated more on it, which doesn't feel right to me - plenty of things are very simple, and inexpensive to boot, and time - or more accurately the fear of how much time it would take - is a bigger put off.
    Absolutely. Whenever this topic comes up online I find myself trying to educate people who claim I can't cook, or it's too much bother, and I say just cook an omelette. All you have to do is push an egg around a frying pan over moderate heat and it literally takes three minutes. Do that and you will have a dish of sophistication, which won't be bettered in any restaurant
    Unlike in a restaurant, the home cooked omlette will not have the white and yolk overcombined,
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,340
    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    I do 100% of the cooking in my house.

    But then, I do live alone...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,594
    rcs1000 said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    Every day. I rarely spend more than twenty minutes on it. Because it's easy and quick, and the food is at least as good as in most restaurants, I rarely eat out and almost never have takeaway or ready meals.
    I only cook properly like once a week, but there can be a condescending approach taken sometimes wherein it is treated as something people find hard to understand and if only they were educated more on it, which doesn't feel right to me - plenty of things are very simple, and inexpensive to boot, and time - or more accurately the fear of how much time it would take - is a bigger put off.
    Absolutely. Whenever this topic comes up online I find myself trying to educate people who claim I can't cook, or it's too much bother, and I say just cook an omelette. All you have to do is push an egg around a frying pan over moderate heat and it literally takes three minutes. Do that and you will have a dish of sophistication, which won't be bettered in any restaurant
    Unlike in a restaurant, the home cooked omlette will not have the white and yolk overcombined,
    Also omelettes do need to be eaten straight away, which doesn't suit restaurant ways of working.
  • How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I cook. I don't do fancy crap.

    Peeling meat is rarely required.

    I season it, put it in the air fryer, turn it over, then eat it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,942
    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    You are the reincarnation of the late Keith Floyd, and I claim my five pounds.

    Let's face it, there are few things more sensual than making nice food for someone you love. Obviously, there is at least one thing, but this is a family blog. And a glass of something with it only adds to the joy.

    (Having said that, one of the cultural things I miss about Spain is the place on the corner where you routinely go and eat. There's a very pleasant Italian place halfway between my house and the Crossrail station... but I just can't justify going there except as an occaisonal treat.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,200
    @sirDukeDevin

    BREAKING: TRUMP ADMINISTRATION RELEASES OFFICIAL PHOTO OF TRUMP'S PEACE PRIZE.



    https://x.com/sirDukeDevin/status/1998008702784229749?s=20
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,865
    edited December 8

    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    We do in this house. Main exceptions are when one or both of us comes home late with a ready meal (pizza or quiche or fishcakes and chips) from M&S but even then we add a veg portion. Also when we go to the specialist butcher and come home with their pies (maybe a Scottish thing: 'butcher' meat pies with puff pastry, as well as the round Scotch pies with eg macaroni cheese - but they would count in another sense as home made. Likewise cooked ham and so on.

    Soup home made too usually with sometimes tinned stuff esp if I am on my own.
    I love cooking but have to forego the joy of it quite often and buy the yellow sticker in Waitrose

    Tonight I've got Charlie's chicken and ham en croute for two for six quid
    Tesco finest pizza for tomorrow: £1.25. Discounts are steeper (but rarer) at Tesco Express.
    I live four hundred wards from Waitrose and a mile and a half from Tesco

    Where would you walk?
    Ilford North has TWO big Tescos and TWO Tesco Expresses, TWO big Sainsbury's and a Sainsbury's Local, TWO Lidls, TWO Co-ops, and an Aldi.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    My mother was an excellent baker, but a poor cook. She had no interest in experimentation. Follow the recipe, for good or ill...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    You are the reincarnation of the late Keith Floyd, and I claim my five pounds.

    Let's face it, there are few things more sensual than making nice food for someone you love. Obviously, there is at least one thing, but this is a family blog. And a glass of something with it only adds to the joy.

    (Having said that, one of the cultural things I miss about Spain is the place on the corner where you routinely go and eat. There's a very pleasant Italian place halfway between my house and the Crossrail station... but I just can't justify going there except as an occaisonal treat.)
    Blair's "continental cafe culture" would have been better served by dropping VAT on eating out than extending licensing hours.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,640
    Tonight I had devilled kidneys on toast with a side of asparagus. Breakfast was a low carb croissant with almond butter, lunch was cheese and seed crackers. Tomorrow's breakfast will be mushroom omelette.

    One of the nice things about being retired is I have time to eat a Craster kipper for breakfast which I will do one day this week
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,749

    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    We do in this house. Main exceptions are when one or both of us comes home late with a ready meal (pizza or quiche or fishcakes and chips) from M&S but even then we add a veg portion. Also when we go to the specialist butcher and come home with their pies (maybe a Scottish thing: 'butcher' meat pies with puff pastry, as well as the round Scotch pies with eg macaroni cheese - but they would count in another sense as home made. Likewise cooked ham and so on.

    Soup home made too usually with sometimes tinned stuff esp if I am on my own.
    I love cooking but have to forego the joy of it quite often and buy the yellow sticker in Waitrose

    Tonight I've got Charlie's chicken and ham en croute for two for six quid
    Tesco finest pizza for tomorrow: £1.25. Discounts are steeper (but rarer) at Tesco Express.
    I live four hundred wards from Waitrose and a mile and a half from Tesco

    Where would you walk?
    A bit of each.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,246
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    @sirDukeDevin

    BREAKING: TRUMP ADMINISTRATION RELEASES OFFICIAL PHOTO OF TRUMP'S PEACE PRIZE.



    https://x.com/sirDukeDevin/status/1998008702784229749?s=20

    I bet Qatar is thinking damn, the Boeing was serious overkill for bribing this guy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,489
    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    In my experience, cooking has become a male chore.
    Once upon a time, when only one partner - almost always the husband - worked, the other one - the wife - would do most of the home stuff. But in the modern world, where most of us need two incomes to survive, we need to divvy the tasks up between us. In most sane households this is done on partners bagging the task they mind doing least. (Sure, I quite like cooking. But I would much rather sit on my arse while someone else did it. But that way nothing gets done...)
    I do food - cooking, food shopping, feeding the cats - she does clothes - laundry, ironing, clothes shopping.
    Also I take the bins out. And look after the cars. And she does so much of the thinking - keeping track of emails from schools etc.
    Dishwashers is a constant job done by whoever is passing.
    I reckon we're fairly typical.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,509
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    In my experience, cooking has become a male chore.
    Once upon a time, when only one partner - almost always the husband - worked, the other one - the wife - would do most of the home stuff. But in the modern world, where most of us need two incomes to survive, we need to divvy the tasks up between us. In most sane households this is done on partners bagging the task they mind doing least. (Sure, I quite like cooking. But I would much rather sit on my arse while someone else did it. But that way nothing gets done...)
    I do food - cooking, food shopping, feeding the cats - she does clothes - laundry, ironing, clothes shopping.
    Also I take the bins out. And look after the cars. And she does so much of the thinking - keeping track of emails from schools etc.
    Dishwashers is a constant job done by whoever is passing.
    I reckon we're fairly typical.

    That sounds pretty typical, yes. The things that seem to vary a lot are holiday booking and financial admin. In a lot of families those seem to be female jobs but in ours they’re my responsibility. Gardening and DIY on the other hand are hers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,256
    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    Men like doing things with their hands and often find great satisfaction from making and growing things. So cooking and gardening are filling the space for us with white collar jobs.

    I tend to cook freestyle rather than to a recipie, and once you understand some of the science of cooking* this is fairly easy. The exception is baking which requires careful measurement and precise timing.

    *start with this classic work: https://amzn.eu/d/amCSwHU
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,565
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    Basa fillets fried in a light dusting of olive oil with ginger for me.

    Quick, simple and tasty.

    I may have added a bit too much spice but it was decent.
    Ham, cheese and mushroom souffle omelette, backed potato and a leaf salad here.

    Followed by a bought-in egg custard.

    Suffering quite badly at the moment from a winter chest infection. This morning the GP agreed to a 2nd week of antibiotics. But it's one of those that is a sit up half the night coughing experience to avoid distress, so my sleep patterns are completely out of whack.

    I'm nervous of this sort of thing which feels as if it may cross over into triggering my rare asthma symptoms.

    I had one caused by a huge a amount of inkjet fumes back in 2005-ish (printing 1000 Greetings Cards for a local cathedral), and after a 2am run to A&E, they had me blow into a blower and it caused a respiratory arrest. Apparently (I was told later) a lot of red lights and alarms went off.

    Fun, fun, fun, in the sun, sun, sun.

    Do your wills people, if you have not done so yet.
    I've never made souffle, but when I have a good one in a restaurant, I always think "man, that's something I really want to learn to make".
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,244

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    The plan for dinner tomorrow is to fill the slow cooker with chicken thigh fillets, leek, onion, sweet potato, apple and cider. Leave for several hours and then cook some potatoes (probably) to eat with it.

    And then put the remaining half into the freezer.

    There are some nights when a vegetable isn't peeled or chopped. Frozen pizzas have crossed the threshold into the house. But cooking happens quite often.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,256
    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:
    PART 1: THE ARTICLE
    Yes, @viewcode is and it's in the toilets. It's currently on its fifth draft and is 1,9XX words long not including the appendices, so I'll have to kill my darlings, including the Shaun Of The Dead reference.

    I invited four discussants on to discuss the article. "Discussants" is an old technique you don't see much around these days, where you give a lecture/report and then two groups discuss, pro- and con. Two of my discussants (@NigelB and @kyf_100 ) from the pro-trans direction, and another two (@Cyclefree and @DavidL) from the gender-critical direction. Problem is, due to her personal circs @Cyclefree cannot contribute much, and @DavidL has not yet responded. Also @NigelB and @kyf100 are not lawyers and have pointed out that this makes it imbalanced.

    To cure this I propose the following
    • i) Nudge @DavidL: sir you don't have to be a discussant if you don't want to, but I would be grateful if you could tell me yea or nay
    • ii) Is there somebody from the the pro-trans direction (or at least not explicitly gender-critical) with legal experience who would like to be a discussant?
    • iii) @turbotubbs, if @Cyclefree can't play can I get you in as a substitute?
    PART 2: THE PEGGIE CASE
    I have not yet studied the case in depth but I do note that the judges in both Peggie and Kelly gave weight to the number of objectors, which means I may be able to incorporate it in the Kelly section
    Popped in this afternoon just to see if you were already on the case, pun intended. Glad to see you are!

    The trouble with all this stuff is the speed at which it moves. That, and following it in depth is a full time job in itself (a mere 312 page judgement to read tonight!).

    When you started your article, it was fairly rational (albeit disputed) to reach a conclusion, legally speaking that trans women are a) legally 'men' for the purpose of the EA and b) legally excluded from single sex spaces.

    In the space of a week, we have not one but two judgements (Kelly v Leonardo, Peggie v NHS Fife) that seem to suggest, at least, that (b) is incorrect.

    To complicate matters further, the Good Law Project expect their judicial review into the EHRC's draft guidance to be handed down over the next few weeks.

    This is why I'm rather more interested in the political debate than the letter of the law. The law is just a set of rules that can change. Politics is what those rules mean, in practice, and how we as a society choose to balance conflicting, even oppositional views (enter proportionality, stage left...).
    Noted. Considering changing rooms and toilets

    Changing rooms
    IIUC the SC Judgment FWS was clear on changing rooms: the answer is "no access for TW". Peggie seems to have modified that, and now the answer seems to be "access is permitted unless somebody objects, and then withdrawn until the objection is resolved". Which brings me to...

    Toilets
    My article tries to address whether toilet access comes under FWS (there is disagreement) and the more I read the more I think there is no consensus and it will have to wait until Govt resolves the EHRC guidance. Kelly added a quirk which Peggie echoed, namely the weight of numbers - the number of objectors is relevant and a single objector is insufficient. This surprised me.

    Apparently Peggie also rejects the interpretation that FWS directly addressed toilets, saying that if it had meant toilets it would have said so. I agree with that, but I can't deny that many lawyers says it does.
    I really think that's rather appalling. A woman must put herself out there as some sort of complaining prude to avoid having men in her changing room or loo. And even when she does, that might not be enough. Will the woman's feelings of disquiet and discomfort at the presence of biological males be enough, or must there be an 'act' or 'event' that the complainant will need to provide evidence of?

    I don't really see how it can be satisfactory for the self-identified women (or men) either. You're allowed to be somewhere until someone else dislikes it and makes a complaint? It's a recipe for workplace conflict and resentment, that makes these people into front line cannon fodder in a culture war.

    What foolish, ideologically-driven judgements.
    At some point men, including all those crowing tonight, need to engage with why women need single sex spaces and why denying them dignity, privacy and security and the right to say "No" to a man is essential to women.

    Meanwhile all those who think that what men want they should get and that women are not entitled to such to basic rights and have no right to say no to a man can enjoy your victory for now. But men who think that a woman is not entitled to say no, who think that women are not entitled to be safe, to have dignity or privacy, who think that women are obliged to get undressed in front of a men if he demands it, are saying that they think women are not fully human beings entitled as of right to what men take for granted but wish to deny women. They create the sea in which male predators flourish. And if single sex ie male free spaces are not permitted then women will be forced back into the home or forced to endure sexual assaults of all kinds if they go out of it. Those men who think like that are disgusting and should be ashamed of themselves. This debate has shown how many men do think like this and how widespread they are in all sorts of places, including - I'm sorry to say - this forum.
    I don't know what was said earlier so cannot comment, but this is a really interesting judgement of what the law is on this issue. It seems that Upton did not harrass Peggie, and what Fife did wrong was a matter of process.

    I am sure that there will be further case law that clarifies things furthrron both the protected characteristics of sex and of gender reassignment.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,817
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    Every day. I rarely spend more than twenty minutes on it. Because it's easy and quick, and the food is at least as good as in most restaurants, I rarely eat out and almost never have takeaway or ready meals.
    I only cook properly like once a week, but there can be a condescending approach taken sometimes wherein it is treated as something people find hard to understand and if only they were educated more on it, which doesn't feel right to me - plenty of things are very simple, and inexpensive to boot, and time - or more accurately the fear of how much time it would take - is a bigger put off.
    After school classes from 3-4pm should teach basic cooking.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,565
    Things I love to make that are probably not worth the time:

    Confit duck legs.

    They involve me tying up the oven for at least eight hours, and often more. Which means the kids bitch that they can't reheat food because "there's something in the oven".

    Then they're eaten in about ten minutes. And no one thanks me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,817
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    You are the reincarnation of the late Keith Floyd, and I claim my five pounds.

    Let's face it, there are few things more sensual than making nice food for someone you love. Obviously, there is at least one thing, but this is a family blog. And a glass of something with it only adds to the joy.

    (Having said that, one of the cultural things I miss about Spain is the place on the corner where you routinely go and eat. There's a very pleasant Italian place halfway between my house and the Crossrail station... but I just can't justify going there except as an occaisonal treat.)
    Blair's "continental cafe culture" would have been better served by dropping VAT on eating out than extending licensing hours.
    I think wages, taxes and energy prices are now so high that eating out is now either very average quality/small portions or fiendishly expensive.

    Either way, we do it far less now - even compared to 2 years ago.

    You're lucky not to be down £100 for a family of four (and that's small kids) every time you do it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,565
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    Men like doing things with their hands and often find great satisfaction from making and growing things. So cooking and gardening are filling the space for us with white collar jobs.

    I tend to cook freestyle rather than to a recipie, and once you understand some of the science of cooking* this is fairly easy. The exception is baking which requires careful measurement and precise timing.

    *start with this classic work: https://amzn.eu/d/amCSwHU
    Oh, that's very much my technique too.

    And when I do read a recipe, I tend to absorb the basics, and then just improvise from there rather than attempting to replicate it line by line.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,244
    Scott_xP said:
    That isn't dementia. It's standard Trump operating procedure to lie brazenly and frequently.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,852
    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    I do pretty much all of the cooking too. My wife used to work later hours than me so it just made sense.

    Tonight it was Teriyaki salmon on a bed of prawn and egg fried rice and very nice it was too.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,200
    rcs1000 said:

    Things I love to make that are probably not worth the time:

    Confit duck legs.

    They involve me tying up the oven for at least eight hours, and often more. Which means the kids bitch that they can't reheat food because "there's something in the oven".

    Then they're eaten in about ten minutes. And no one thanks me.

    I love Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall's pork Rillettes but i haven't done it for a while

    I did overdo the neeps and tatties last weekend so I made Shepherd's pie with the leftovers which worked out really well
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,817

    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    We do in this house. Main exceptions are when one or both of us comes home late with a ready meal (pizza or quiche or fishcakes and chips) from M&S but even then we add a veg portion. Also when we go to the specialist butcher and come home with their pies (maybe a Scottish thing: 'butcher' meat pies with puff pastry, as well as the round Scotch pies with eg macaroni cheese - but they would count in another sense as home made. Likewise cooked ham and so on.

    Soup home made too usually with sometimes tinned stuff esp if I am on my own.
    I love cooking but have to forego the joy of it quite often and buy the yellow sticker in Waitrose

    Tonight I've got Charlie's chicken and ham en croute for two for six quid
    Tesco finest pizza for tomorrow: £1.25. Discounts are steeper (but rarer) at Tesco Express.
    I live four hundred wards from Waitrose and a mile and a half from Tesco

    Where would you walk?
    That's a bloody long way to your nearest Waitrose.

    How many of those wards are now Reform marginals?
  • Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    I do pretty much all of the cooking too. My wife used to work later hours than me so it just made sense.

    Tonight it was Teriyaki salmon on a bed of prawn and egg fried rice and very nice it was too.
    Good evening

    When I retired in 2009, I told my wife that I would cook from now on as she was such a devoted wife, mother and grandmother doing most of the cooking and it was my turn

    That is a promise I have kept though air fryers has made it easier
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,852
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    Basa fillets fried in a light dusting of olive oil with ginger for me.

    Quick, simple and tasty.

    I may have added a bit too much spice but it was decent.
    Ham, cheese and mushroom souffle omelette, backed potato and a leaf salad here.

    Followed by a bought-in egg custard.

    Suffering quite badly at the moment from a winter chest infection. This morning the GP agreed to a 2nd week of antibiotics. But it's one of those that is a sit up half the night coughing experience to avoid distress, so my sleep patterns are completely out of whack.

    I'm nervous of this sort of thing which feels as if it may cross over into triggering my rare asthma symptoms.

    I had one caused by a huge a amount of inkjet fumes back in 2005-ish (printing 1000 Greetings Cards for a local cathedral), and after a 2am run to A&E, they had me blow into a blower and it caused a respiratory arrest. Apparently (I was told later) a lot of red lights and alarms went off.

    Fun, fun, fun, in the sun, sun, sun.

    Do your wills people, if you have not done so yet.
    We did ours and our LPA’s earlier this year.

    I’ve tried to get my stepdad to do one. He won’t. Utterly stupid. It makes no sense not doing one.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,942
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    Men like doing things with their hands and often find great satisfaction from making and growing things. So cooking and gardening are filling the space for us with white collar jobs.

    I tend to cook freestyle rather than to a recipie, and once you understand some of the science of cooking* this is fairly easy. The exception is baking which requires careful measurement and precise timing.

    *start with this classic work: https://amzn.eu/d/amCSwHU
    Or this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/10/50-best-cookbooks-edouard-pomiane

    Unfortunately for the current generation of food writers, our civilisation doesn't really need any more cookbooks.
  • How many of our cooks do something new, rather than relying on tried and tested recipes?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,256

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    Men like doing things with their hands and often find great satisfaction from making and growing things. So cooking and gardening are filling the space for us with white collar jobs.

    I tend to cook freestyle rather than to a recipie, and once you understand some of the science of cooking* this is fairly easy. The exception is baking which requires careful measurement and precise timing.

    *start with this classic work: https://amzn.eu/d/amCSwHU
    Or this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/10/50-best-cookbooks-edouard-pomiane

    Unfortunately for the current generation of food writers, our civilisation doesn't really need any more cookbooks.
    PB chefs and history geeks are often one person, and might find this of interest. Ancient recipies updated:

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/tasting-history/max-miller/9781982186180
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,942
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    Basa fillets fried in a light dusting of olive oil with ginger for me.

    Quick, simple and tasty.

    I may have added a bit too much spice but it was decent.
    Ham, cheese and mushroom souffle omelette, backed potato and a leaf salad here.

    Followed by a bought-in egg custard.

    Suffering quite badly at the moment from a winter chest infection. This morning the GP agreed to a 2nd week of antibiotics. But it's one of those that is a sit up half the night coughing experience to avoid distress, so my sleep patterns are completely out of whack.

    I'm nervous of this sort of thing which feels as if it may cross over into triggering my rare asthma symptoms.

    I had one caused by a huge a amount of inkjet fumes back in 2005-ish (printing 1000 Greetings Cards for a local cathedral), and after a 2am run to A&E, they had me blow into a blower and it caused a respiratory arrest. Apparently (I was told later) a lot of red lights and alarms went off.

    Fun, fun, fun, in the sun, sun, sun.

    Do your wills people, if you have not done so yet.
    We did ours and our LPA’s earlier this year.

    I’ve tried to get my stepdad to do one. He won’t. Utterly stupid. It makes no sense not doing one.
    Indeed. Especially in Scotland, where there are particular issues (notably having to spend very easily some thousands on an insurance premium lest the executors defraud the automatic beneficiaries, *even if they are the beneficiaries themselves*). Having been an executor in that situation,
    I keep telling people not to put it off, but they do.

    But I am sure MattW will get better soon despite all this depressing stuff.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,200

    How many of our cooks do something new, rather than relying on tried and tested recipes?

    I tried a 'new' tomato sauce recipe last year. It was so good I have made it several times since, so now it's tried and tested
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,340

    How many of our cooks do something new, rather than relying on tried and tested recipes?

    The only time I ever open my recipe book is to find the correct proportions of flour and milk when I make pancakes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216
    edited December 8
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    Basa fillets fried in a light dusting of olive oil with ginger for me.

    Quick, simple and tasty.

    I may have added a bit too much spice but it was decent.
    Ham, cheese and mushroom souffle omelette, backed potato and a leaf salad here.

    Followed by a bought-in egg custard.

    Suffering quite badly at the moment from a winter chest infection. This morning the GP agreed to a 2nd week of antibiotics. But it's one of those that is a sit up half the night coughing experience to avoid distress, so my sleep patterns are completely out of whack.

    I'm nervous of this sort of thing which feels as if it may cross over into triggering my rare asthma symptoms.

    I had one caused by a huge a amount of inkjet fumes back in 2005-ish (printing 1000 Greetings Cards for a local cathedral), and after a 2am run to A&E, they had me blow into a blower and it caused a respiratory arrest. Apparently (I was told later) a lot of red lights and alarms went off.

    Fun, fun, fun, in the sun, sun, sun.

    Do your wills people, if you have not done so yet.
    We did ours and our LPA’s earlier this year.

    I’ve tried to get my stepdad to do one. He won’t. Utterly stupid. It makes no sense not doing one.
    I do all the cooking in my house. The good wife could never cook and gleefully admits it. She lived on baked beans, soup and the one actual recipe she could do (a kind of low brow goulash with TVP soya protein) when I met her. She is utterly hopeless near a hob or oven.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,200
    @AnnaBower

    NEWS: Judge Boasberg orders Erez Reuveni and Drew Ensign to testify in court next week as part of his ongoing contempt inquiry over Alien Enemies Act flights.

    https://x.com/AnnaBower/status/1998132493581721881?s=20
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,954

    carnforth said:

    Carnyx said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    We do in this house. Main exceptions are when one or both of us comes home late with a ready meal (pizza or quiche or fishcakes and chips) from M&S but even then we add a veg portion. Also when we go to the specialist butcher and come home with their pies (maybe a Scottish thing: 'butcher' meat pies with puff pastry, as well as the round Scotch pies with eg macaroni cheese - but they would count in another sense as home made. Likewise cooked ham and so on.

    Soup home made too usually with sometimes tinned stuff esp if I am on my own.
    I love cooking but have to forego the joy of it quite often and buy the yellow sticker in Waitrose

    Tonight I've got Charlie's chicken and ham en croute for two for six quid
    Tesco finest pizza for tomorrow: £1.25. Discounts are steeper (but rarer) at Tesco Express.
    I live four hundred wards from Waitrose and a mile and a half from Tesco

    Where would you walk?
    Ilford North has TWO big Tescos and TWO Tesco Expresses, TWO big Sainsbury's and a Sainsbury's Local, TWO Lidls, TWO Co-ops, and an Aldi.
    You're a long way from the nearest Booths.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,640
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    In my experience, cooking has become a male chore.
    Once upon a time, when only one partner - almost always the husband - worked, the other one - the wife - would do most of the home stuff. But in the modern world, where most of us need two incomes to survive, we need to divvy the tasks up between us. In most sane households this is done on partners bagging the task they mind doing least. (Sure, I quite like cooking. But I would much rather sit on my arse while someone else did it. But that way nothing gets done...)
    I do food - cooking, food shopping, feeding the cats - she does clothes - laundry, ironing, clothes shopping.
    Also I take the bins out. And look after the cars. And she does so much of the thinking - keeping track of emails from schools etc.
    Dishwashers is a constant job done by whoever is passing.
    I reckon we're fairly typical.

    That sounds pretty typical, yes. The things that seem to vary a lot are holiday booking and financial admin. In a lot of families those seem to be female jobs but in ours they’re my responsibility. Gardening and DIY on the other hand are hers.
    I love holiday booking and itinerary planning, but then I'm single and have to do it myself. The Grand Egyptian Museum has just opened and a trip up and down the Nile, Alex, El Alamein and Siwa Oasis needs to be planned for next Autumn, quite a challenge
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,640

    How many of our cooks do something new, rather than relying on tried and tested recipes?

    To be honest, rarely, although the air fryer has a "how long do I need to put it in for" vibe. Air fried chicken wings are great.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    edited December 8

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    Men like doing things with their hands and often find great satisfaction from making and growing things. So cooking and gardening are filling the space for us with white collar jobs.

    I tend to cook freestyle rather than to a recipie, and once you understand some of the science of cooking* this is fairly easy. The exception is baking which requires careful measurement and precise timing.

    *start with this classic work: https://amzn.eu/d/amCSwHU
    Or this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/10/50-best-cookbooks-edouard-pomiane

    Unfortunately for the current generation of food writers, our civilisation doesn't really need any more cookbooks.
    Pomiane is great. But he didn't have a fridge, or a freezer, or anything out of season. So there's a lot of "vegetable flours" involved.

    But I do love Pasta à l'anglaise.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How curious:

    The men of PB - me included - seem to be far more likely to cook than their wives. I do 90% of the cooking in our house. This is simply because it's something I enjoy, while for my wife it's a chore. I love dicing, sauteeing, crushing, grilling and ... most importantly ... sipping on a glass of wine while I'm doing it.

    Tonight I am making asparagus risotto with Salmon.

    My wife said 'and you could put some terreyaki sauce on the salmon", which I'm going to ignore.

    Men like doing things with their hands and often find great satisfaction from making and growing things. So cooking and gardening are filling the space for us with white collar jobs.

    I tend to cook freestyle rather than to a recipie, and once you understand some of the science of cooking* this is fairly easy. The exception is baking which requires careful measurement and precise timing.

    *start with this classic work: https://amzn.eu/d/amCSwHU
    Or this one:

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/aug/10/50-best-cookbooks-edouard-pomiane

    Unfortunately for the current generation of food writers, our civilisation doesn't really need any more cookbooks.
    Pomiane is great. But he didn't have a fridge, or a freezer, or anything out of season. So there's a lot of "vegetable flours" involved.

    But I do love Pasta à l'anglese.
    By the way, someone did a TV series of them:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lzjyfqPe7ZE&pp=ygUSZWRvdWFyZCBkZSBwb21pYW5l

    Fun.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,594

    How many of our cooks do something new, rather than relying on tried and tested recipes?

    Normally don't follow recipes. Mostly it's a collection of techniques - stews, stir fry, pan fry, steam, braise etc - where you might have a couple of base ingredients and you include whatever is in your fridge. Cakes I will follow a recipe on to ensure it doesn't ended up a soggy mess , but I don't bake those often. Occasionally I am served something nice in a restaurant that I try out at home.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,200
    FF43 said:

    Occasionally I am served something nice in a restaurant that I try out at home.

    I had chicken chasseur in hospital that I liked so much i made it at home
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,008
    edited December 8
    I seem to be one of the few men on PB that doesn't particularly enjoy cooking. To me it's basically a chore that needs to be done in order to eat healthily and which I share 50/50 with the missus. I have a set of around 20 meals that I cook regularly, and I cook something new every now and again to relieve the tedium, but I'd usually rather be doing something else.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    A slow-motion Grenfell, thankfully without the deaths:

    https://youtu.be/ETZIGB6iwuw?si=bTy7plQ5ZdK8GcS6

    "There's a fire burning in the walls of this Toronto apartment complex."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,200
    Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel has signed a one-year contract extension with ABC and will continue to host his show through May 2027, Reuters reports.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,448
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    How much do PBers cook for themselves?

    Obviously many will have wives who do the cooking, but do they really cook?

    I mean cooking from ingredients that you need to peel and chop up, and then fry, broil, braise, grill, bake, roast, soak, marinade or whatever

    Do we cook?

    I made home made chips last night.

    It was remarkably easy.

    I think many recipes are massively over complicated.
    Same principle as the movie conversation yesterday- all the good recipes were worked out long ago, so how else are you going to make a recipe book, except by overcomplication? (Sorry Nigel Slater, that even goes for you, and you are clearly a sweetie and a love.)

    But yeah- having spent a couple of decades doing the cooking, reasonably properly, it's nice having a child who has started doing some of it. Just in time for her to get good before going to university.

    (One of the odd, strange, memories of late lockdown is her doing a live online cookalong organised by her Guides group.)

    I like the look of Nigel's cooking, but I tried one of the recipes and it was rubbish. I am willing to concede I may have made it badly, but there were only 4 ingredients so I am not sure how to make it better

    To answer the original question, I cook sometimes. I often assemble sandwiches, but that might involve a lot of chopping, or a salad, but that might include a poached egg. I hope to roast a pheasant this weekend with all the trimmings but only if schedule allows.
    I do 85% of the cooking in this house. Mostly from scratch. Slow-cooked beef casserole and dumplings tonight.
    Basa fillets fried in a light dusting of olive oil with ginger for me.

    Quick, simple and tasty.

    I may have added a bit too much spice but it was decent.
    Ham, cheese and mushroom souffle omelette, backed potato and a leaf salad here.

    Followed by a bought-in egg custard.

    Suffering quite badly at the moment from a winter chest infection. This morning the GP agreed to a 2nd week of antibiotics. But it's one of those that is a sit up half the night coughing experience to avoid distress, so my sleep patterns are completely out of whack.

    I'm nervous of this sort of thing which feels as if it may cross over into triggering my rare asthma symptoms.

    I had one caused by a huge a amount of inkjet fumes back in 2005-ish (printing 1000 Greetings Cards for a local cathedral), and after a 2am run to A&E, they had me blow into a blower and it caused a respiratory arrest. Apparently (I was told later) a lot of red lights and alarms went off.

    Fun, fun, fun, in the sun, sun, sun.

    Do your wills people, if you have not done so yet.
    We did ours and our LPA’s earlier this year.

    I’ve tried to get my stepdad to do one. He won’t. Utterly stupid. It makes no sense not doing one.
    Very sorry to hear this Matt. I know this is a very 'me' thing to say but do you take Vitamin D3/K2 in the winter?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216
    Starmer has joined TikTok


    How late, how late it was...



  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216

    Geri Scott
    @Geri_E_L_Scott

    New: Keir Starmer has joined TikTok - his first video shows him and his wife Vic switching on the No 10 Christmas lights.

    It's part of a fresh comms push to get the PM on platforms where he can speak directly to voters.

    He's also launched a Substack here as one of the "new ways to explain why we are doing what we are doing".

    https://x.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/1997988885666636052
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216
    Scott_xP said:

    FF43 said:

    Occasionally I am served something nice in a restaurant that I try out at home.

    I had chicken chasseur in hospital that I liked so much i made it at home

    You are Wes Streeting and I claim my five pounds.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,594
    edited December 8
    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,610

    Starmer has joined TikTok


    How late, how late it was...

    Is he going to emulate the Ed Davey strategy?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216

    Starmer has joined TikTok


    How late, how late it was...

    Is he going to emulate the Ed Davey strategy?
    Dunno. So far he has deployed his wife and larry the cat. No sign of jet skiing over a plastic shark in fluorescent shorts.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,902
    rcs1000 said:

    Things I love to make that are probably not worth the time:

    Confit duck legs.

    They involve me tying up the oven for at least eight hours, and often more. Which means the kids bitch that they can't reheat food because "there's something in the oven".

    Then they're eaten in about ten minutes. And no one thanks me.

    WhenI was single I lived on microwave meals - 6 minutes, no mess whatever, and got on with life. I was a bit on the heavy side, and almost never touched a vegetable. Since I married I've lost 11 kilos and apparently look years younger, though I occasionally have a tikka masala for old times' sake.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,210
    edited December 8
    It’s being claimed that these ‘Two 17-year old boys from Leamington’ are Afghans who came over on a small boat, and the “young woman” was a 15 year old girl. If so, it has to be one of the most misleading articles of all time, albeit only in a local rag

    Two teenage boys have been charged with rape following an incident at Newbold Comyn in Leamington Spa at the weekend.

    Two 17-year-old boys from Leamington, who cannot be named due to their age, were charged on Sunday (May 11).

    They went before magistrates in Coventry earlier today (Monday) and will next appear at Coventry Youth Court on Thursday.

    Warwickshire Police has also appealed for witnesses.

    The force asked for anyone who spoke to a "distressed young woman" on Saturday, 10 May, to come forward.

    She was seen around Newbold Comyn, Jephson Gardens, and the surrounding streets of Leamington between 8pm and 10.15pm.

    She is believed to have sought help from members of the public, one of whom took her to the police station.

    https://leamington.nub.news/news/local-news/two-teenagers-charged-with-rape-after-leamington-incident-259936
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,246
    Trump is becoming increasingly abusive towards female journalists, as a kind of automatic deflection when questioned.

    The media - in particular the other journalists present - need to call him out on this. The constant drip of misogyny has an effect.

    Rachel Scott is a great reporter and truly good person.

    To my friends in the press corps: Stand up for each other. “Sir, that’s wrong, what you said to Rachel. She’s a good person.”

    That’s all. He’ll hate it, yell at you. But you will have done the decent thing, told the truth.

    https://x.com/TerryMoran/status/1998153863862554730

    I don't hold out much hope though. They've got too used to sanewashing every utterance.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,449
    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,686

    Starmer has joined TikTok


    How late, how late it was...



    It's a long time since I read Kelman's novel so had to look up the quote that your comment brought to mind :

    “Funny how ye tell people a story to make a point and ye fail, ye fail, a total disaster. Not only do ye no make yer point it winds up the exact f**king opposite man, the exact f**king opposite.”
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    isam said:

    It’s being claimed that these ‘Two 17-year old boys from Leamington’ are Afghans who came over on a small boat, and the “young woman” was a 15 year old girl. If so, it has to be one of the most misleading articles of all time, albeit only in a local rag

    Two teenage boys have been charged with rape following an incident at Newbold Comyn in Leamington Spa at the weekend.

    Two 17-year-old boys from Leamington, who cannot be named due to their age, were charged on Sunday (May 11).

    They went before magistrates in Coventry earlier today (Monday) and will next appear at Coventry Youth Court on Thursday.

    Warwickshire Police has also appealed for witnesses.

    The force asked for anyone who spoke to a "distressed young woman" on Saturday, 10 May, to come forward.

    She was seen around Newbold Comyn, Jephson Gardens, and the surrounding streets of Leamington between 8pm and 10.15pm.

    She is believed to have sought help from members of the public, one of whom took her to the police station.

    https://leamington.nub.news/news/local-news/two-teenagers-charged-with-rape-after-leamington-incident-259936

    "Jan Jahanzeb was handed a term of 10 years and eight months, whilst Israr Niazal received nine years and 10 months following their guilty pleas at Coventry youth court in October for the attack.

    Judge Sylvia de Bertodano permitted the teenagers to be publicly identified, arguing that preserving anonymity could fuel speculation, potentially putting innocent individuals at risk."

    For people that young to be given sentences that long, it must have been horrific.

    "Niazal entered his guilty plea one day before turning 17, the threshold age for automatic deportation of foreign nationals receiving custodial sentences exceeding one year."

    Because of course.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216
    ++++ BETTING POST ++++

    2026 mid terms.

    This is massive.

    Wiles is chief of staff and one of the few sane in the WH.

    Which way it will work with the actual vote is DYOR i guess.



    Eric Daugherty
    @EricLDaugh


    🚨 BREAKING: Susie Wiles confirms Donald Trump will be a "TURNOUT MACHINE" for the 2026 midterms, campaigning like it's 2024

    "We're gonna put Trump ON THE BALLOT." 🔥https://x.com/i/status/1998145297533255749/video/1

    "We're gonna put him on the campaign trail...NOBODY can outwork him!"

    Wiles says low propensity voters are Trump voters, and they are FLIPPING the traditional script. The plan: make the election NATIONAL, not local, and make it about Trump.

    "I haven't broken it to him yet, but he's going to campaign like it's 2024!"

    "He'll work very hard to keep the majority."


    https://x.com/EricLDaugh/status/1998151038365270058
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,594
    Sadly Boris Johnson renounced his US citizenship

    All criminals with dual nationality must be deported, say Tories.

    The Conservative party’s policy also includes stripping people of their British citizenship when they are found guilty of a crime

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/criminals-dual-nationality-deported-conservatives-0mvt3fwll?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky#Echobox=1765224163-1
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,014

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I'd read the judgement in full, if I were you.

    Para 631 notes not only that the judges did not believe her comments on Pakistanis and floods were 'dark humour', but that during the tribunal the explanation she provided about the message was "not credible" and "an untruthful attempt to downplay what she had done".

    Paras 632 and 633 note that she referred to Dr Upton as "it", "a weirdo" with "a pathetic voice" and made "offensive" comments that "went beyond the simple expression of gender critical belief [and] amounted to personal attacks on the second respondent [Dr Upton]."

    The judgement dismissed all of Nurse Peggie's claims against Dr Upton, and only won one claim against NHS Fife, on the relatively narrow procedural point of proper process not being followed in separating her and Dr Upton so they did not work the same shift after the initial complaint had been made. Dr Upton herself has been completely vindicated.

    Whatever you want to say about trans rights in general, and what today's judgement may or may not mean for those rights, it gives us a clear picture about Nurse Peggie.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,216
    ohnotnow said:

    Starmer has joined TikTok


    How late, how late it was...



    It's a long time since I read Kelman's novel so had to look up the quote that your comment brought to mind :

    “Funny how ye tell people a story to make a point and ye fail, ye fail, a total disaster. Not only do ye no make yer point it winds up the exact f**king opposite man, the exact f**king opposite.”
    Possible very apt.

    I still think it is one of the great book titles.

    Although I realise now I have typed it slightly wrong. LOL

    I think my version is better.


  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I'd read the judgement in full, if I were you.

    Para 631 notes not only that the judges did not believe her comments on Pakistanis and floods were 'dark humour', but that during the tribunal the explanation she provided about the message was "not credible" and "an untruthful attempt to downplay what she had done".

    Paras 632 and 633 note that she referred to Dr Upton as "it", "a weirdo" with "a pathetic voice" and made "offensive" comments that "went beyond the simple expression of gender critical belief [and] amounted to personal attacks on the second respondent [Dr Upton]."

    The judgement dismissed all of Nurse Peggie's claims against Dr Upton, and only won one claim against NHS Fife, on the relatively narrow procedural point of proper process not being followed in separating her and Dr Upton so they did not work the same shift after the initial complaint had been made. Dr Upton herself has been completely vindicated.

    Whatever you want to say about trans rights in general, and what today's judgement may or may not mean for those rights, it gives us a clear picture about Nurse Peggie.
    Vindicated with respect to this? Perhaps. Peggie does seem like a piece of work. But:

    "Dr Beth Upton, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, stated in evidence to an employment tribunal that "I'm biologically female" and said sex had "no defined or agreed meaning in science"."

    Oh dear.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,014
    carnforth said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I'd read the judgement in full, if I were you.

    Para 631 notes not only that the judges did not believe her comments on Pakistanis and floods were 'dark humour', but that during the tribunal the explanation she provided about the message was "not credible" and "an untruthful attempt to downplay what she had done".

    Paras 632 and 633 note that she referred to Dr Upton as "it", "a weirdo" with "a pathetic voice" and made "offensive" comments that "went beyond the simple expression of gender critical belief [and] amounted to personal attacks on the second respondent [Dr Upton]."

    The judgement dismissed all of Nurse Peggie's claims against Dr Upton, and only won one claim against NHS Fife, on the relatively narrow procedural point of proper process not being followed in separating her and Dr Upton so they did not work the same shift after the initial complaint had been made. Dr Upton herself has been completely vindicated.

    Whatever you want to say about trans rights in general, and what today's judgement may or may not mean for those rights, it gives us a clear picture about Nurse Peggie.
    Vindicated with respect to this? Perhaps. Peggie does seem like a piece of work. But:

    "Dr Beth Upton, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, stated in evidence to an employment tribunal that "I'm biologically female" and said sex had "no defined or agreed meaning in science"."

    Oh dear.
    I don't understand your point.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    kyf_100 said:

    carnforth said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I'd read the judgement in full, if I were you.

    Para 631 notes not only that the judges did not believe her comments on Pakistanis and floods were 'dark humour', but that during the tribunal the explanation she provided about the message was "not credible" and "an untruthful attempt to downplay what she had done".

    Paras 632 and 633 note that she referred to Dr Upton as "it", "a weirdo" with "a pathetic voice" and made "offensive" comments that "went beyond the simple expression of gender critical belief [and] amounted to personal attacks on the second respondent [Dr Upton]."

    The judgement dismissed all of Nurse Peggie's claims against Dr Upton, and only won one claim against NHS Fife, on the relatively narrow procedural point of proper process not being followed in separating her and Dr Upton so they did not work the same shift after the initial complaint had been made. Dr Upton herself has been completely vindicated.

    Whatever you want to say about trans rights in general, and what today's judgement may or may not mean for those rights, it gives us a clear picture about Nurse Peggie.
    Vindicated with respect to this? Perhaps. Peggie does seem like a piece of work. But:

    "Dr Beth Upton, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, stated in evidence to an employment tribunal that "I'm biologically female" and said sex had "no defined or agreed meaning in science"."

    Oh dear.
    I don't understand your point.
    Topic of discussion seemed to be who ought to be allowed near a hospital. Admittedly FF43's words not yours.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,594
    edited 12:03AM

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I should point out the tribunal determined that Ms Peggie harassed Dr Upton (which wasn't directly part of the case they were judging), while Dr Upton didn't harass Ms Peggie (which was part of the judgement).

    But it's more a general impression. Also Peggie is very keen on suing people. She has presumably well funded suits running against the Fife Health Board, two of the managers, three of the medical staff, as well as the Royal College of Nursing.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,118
    edited 12:04AM
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I should point out the tribunal determined that Ms Peggie harassed Dr Upton (which wasn't directly part of the case they were judging), while Dr Upton didn't harass Ms Peggie (which was part of the judgement).

    But it's more a general impression. Also Peggie is very keen on suing people. She has presumably well funded suits running against the Fife Health Board, two of the makers, three of the medical staff and the Royal College of Nursing.
    Jk Rowling has a lot of cash - as Girl Guiding and the WI have recently discovered based on announcements last week
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,449
    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I'd read the judgement in full, if I were you.

    Para 631 notes not only that the judges did not believe her comments on Pakistanis and floods were 'dark humour', but that during the tribunal the explanation she provided about the message was "not credible" and "an untruthful attempt to downplay what she had done".

    Paras 632 and 633 note that she referred to Dr Upton as "it", "a weirdo" with "a pathetic voice" and made "offensive" comments that "went beyond the simple expression of gender critical belief [and] amounted to personal attacks on the second respondent [Dr Upton]."

    The judgement dismissed all of Nurse Peggie's claims against Dr Upton, and only won one claim against NHS Fife, on the relatively narrow procedural point of proper process not being followed in separating her and Dr Upton so they did not work the same shift after the initial complaint had been made. Dr Upton herself has been completely vindicated.

    Whatever you want to say about trans rights in general, and what today's judgement may or may not mean for those rights, it gives us a clear picture about Nurse Peggie.
    I fundamentally disagree, and I think the result is going to be challenged. I do not think she is the way the trans lobby has delighted in portraying her. If you are gender critical you may well feel someone behaving as Upton did is being weird. You may also talk to others in disparaging ways. One of my colleagues describes our HoD as one of the Muppets. Not nice, but people are not always nice.
    Also the win is not just the one thing.
    Upton is a man. He should not be in a single sex womens space.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    BBC summary of the judgement and possible implications:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mp41jlre7o
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,449
    carnforth said:

    kyf_100 said:

    carnforth said:

    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I'd read the judgement in full, if I were you.

    Para 631 notes not only that the judges did not believe her comments on Pakistanis and floods were 'dark humour', but that during the tribunal the explanation she provided about the message was "not credible" and "an untruthful attempt to downplay what she had done".

    Paras 632 and 633 note that she referred to Dr Upton as "it", "a weirdo" with "a pathetic voice" and made "offensive" comments that "went beyond the simple expression of gender critical belief [and] amounted to personal attacks on the second respondent [Dr Upton]."

    The judgement dismissed all of Nurse Peggie's claims against Dr Upton, and only won one claim against NHS Fife, on the relatively narrow procedural point of proper process not being followed in separating her and Dr Upton so they did not work the same shift after the initial complaint had been made. Dr Upton herself has been completely vindicated.

    Whatever you want to say about trans rights in general, and what today's judgement may or may not mean for those rights, it gives us a clear picture about Nurse Peggie.
    Vindicated with respect to this? Perhaps. Peggie does seem like a piece of work. But:

    "Dr Beth Upton, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, stated in evidence to an employment tribunal that "I'm biologically female" and said sex had "no defined or agreed meaning in science"."

    Oh dear.
    I don't understand your point.
    Topic of discussion seemed to be who ought to be allowed near a hospital. Admittedly FF43's words not yours.
    Well quite. One wonders if Upton thinks he has a prostate if he believes he is biologically female. Or a penis.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I should point out the tribunal determined that Ms Peggie harassed Dr Upton (which wasn't directly part of the case they were judging), while Dr Upton didn't harass Ms Peggie (which was part of the judgement).

    But it's more a general impression. Also Peggie is very keen on suing people. She has presumably well funded suits running against the Fife Health Board, two of the makers, three of the medical staff and the Royal College of Nursing.
    Jk Rowling has a lot of cash - as Girl Guiding and the WI have recently discovered based on announcements last week
    Odd decision the guiding one. I don't see how banning new transgender members, but allowing existing transgender members to stay, can possibly be in line with the law. It's both or neither, surely?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,014
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I should point out the tribunal determined that Ms Peggie harassed Dr Upton (which wasn't directly part of the case they were judging), while Dr Upton didn't harass Ms Peggie (which was part of the judgement).

    But it's more a general impression. Also Peggie is very keen on suing people. She has presumably well funded suits running against the Fife Health Board, two of the makers, three of the medical staff and the Royal College of Nursing.
    Indeed.

    Para 1029 of the judgement notes that Nurse Peggie's comments were "impermissible manifestations of her belief and were in our view what amounted to an incident of harassment by the claimant [Peggie] of the second respondent [Upton]. " and were thus "a breach by the claimant... of the Bullying and Harassment Policy. The second respondent [Dr Upton] was entitled to view the actions of the complainant in those particular regards as being such harassment, or as a "hate incident"".

    A hate incident. That is completely unequivocal.

    To Carnforth's point, if that's what they were trying to argue, that Dr Upton's beliefs mean she shouldn't be in a hospital, I'd just point out that people who work in hospitals have all sorts of fruity beliefs - I've even met some who believe in something called "God". It doesn't prevent them doing their jobs.

    People have a right to their beliefs, however unusual others may find them. What they don't have is a right to go around their place of work, bullying and harassing other members of staff.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,210
    carnforth said:

    isam said:

    It’s being claimed that these ‘Two 17-year old boys from Leamington’ are Afghans who came over on a small boat, and the “young woman” was a 15 year old girl. If so, it has to be one of the most misleading articles of all time, albeit only in a local rag

    Two teenage boys have been charged with rape following an incident at Newbold Comyn in Leamington Spa at the weekend.

    Two 17-year-old boys from Leamington, who cannot be named due to their age, were charged on Sunday (May 11).

    They went before magistrates in Coventry earlier today (Monday) and will next appear at Coventry Youth Court on Thursday.

    Warwickshire Police has also appealed for witnesses.

    The force asked for anyone who spoke to a "distressed young woman" on Saturday, 10 May, to come forward.

    She was seen around Newbold Comyn, Jephson Gardens, and the surrounding streets of Leamington between 8pm and 10.15pm.

    She is believed to have sought help from members of the public, one of whom took her to the police station.

    https://leamington.nub.news/news/local-news/two-teenagers-charged-with-rape-after-leamington-incident-259936

    "Jan Jahanzeb was handed a term of 10 years and eight months, whilst Israr Niazal received nine years and 10 months following their guilty pleas at Coventry youth court in October for the attack.

    Judge Sylvia de Bertodano permitted the teenagers to be publicly identified, arguing that preserving anonymity could fuel speculation, potentially putting innocent individuals at risk."

    For people that young to be given sentences that long, it must have been horrific.

    "Niazal entered his guilty plea one day before turning 17, the threshold age for automatic deportation of foreign nationals receiving custodial sentences exceeding one year."

    Because of course.
    Interesting from one of the Islamic Independent MPs

    Send them back and let them face justice, the Afghan way

    https://x.com/adnanhussainmp/status/1998112747742024048?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,922
    kyf_100 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Carnyx said:
    Sandie Peggie comes across as an unpleasant bigoted individual who shouldn't be anywhere near a hospital.

    Not a basis for discussing the rights and wrongs of the legal case I suppose.
    I assume you are basing that on the social media jokes? I think you’d be shocked by how many people have similar responses to world events. A colleagues police officer brother in law is the prime source for him.

    Jokes are jokes. Now some might argue that they are racist. Yep. But people can make racist jokes without being a racist. Or can share them on socials.

    As far as anyone can tell Peggie has a thirty year unblemished service record. I think that’s what counts, not the smear job that NHS Fife did on her.
    I should point out the tribunal determined that Ms Peggie harassed Dr Upton (which wasn't directly part of the case they were judging), while Dr Upton didn't harass Ms Peggie (which was part of the judgement).

    But it's more a general impression. Also Peggie is very keen on suing people. She has presumably well funded suits running against the Fife Health Board, two of the makers, three of the medical staff and the Royal College of Nursing.
    Indeed.

    Para 1029 of the judgement notes that Nurse Peggie's comments were "impermissible manifestations of her belief and were in our view what amounted to an incident of harassment by the claimant [Peggie] of the second respondent [Upton]. " and were thus "a breach by the claimant... of the Bullying and Harassment Policy. The second respondent [Dr Upton] was entitled to view the actions of the complainant in those particular regards as being such harassment, or as a "hate incident"".

    A hate incident. That is completely unequivocal.

    To Carnforth's point, if that's what they were trying to argue, that Dr Upton's beliefs mean she shouldn't be in a hospital, I'd just point out that people who work in hospitals have all sorts of fruity beliefs - I've even met some who believe in something called "God". It doesn't prevent them doing their jobs.

    People have a right to their beliefs, however unusual others may find them. What they don't have is a right to go around their place of work, bullying and harassing other members of staff.
    If Dr Upton tells me prayer can cure my cancer, she would be disciplined or fired. If she tells me she's biologically female, should she be disciplined or fired too?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,749
    James Marriott:

    "The big tech companies like to see themselves as invested in spreading knowledge and curiosity. In fact in order to survive they must promote stupidity. The tech oligarchs have just as much of a stake in the ignorance of the population as the most reactionary feudal autocrat. Dumb rage and partisan thinking keep us glued to our phones.

    And where the old European monarchies had to (often ineptly) try to censor dangerously critical material, the big tech companies ensure our ignorance much more effectively by flooding our culture with rage, distraction and irrelevance.

    These companies are actively working to destroy human enlightenment and usher in a new dark age.

    The screen revolution will shape our politics as profoundly as the reading revolution of the eighteenth century.

    Without the knowledge and without the critical thinking skills instilled by print, many of the citizens of modern democracies find themselves as helpless and as credulous as medieval peasants — moved by irrational appeals and prone to mob thinking. The world after print increasingly resembles the world before print."

    https://jmarriott.substack.com/p/the-dawn-of-the-post-literate-society-aa1
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,010
    Andy_JS said:

    James Marriott:

    "The big tech companies like to see themselves as invested in spreading knowledge and curiosity. In fact in order to survive they must promote stupidity. The tech oligarchs have just as much of a stake in the ignorance of the population as the most reactionary feudal autocrat. Dumb rage and partisan thinking keep us glued to our phones.

    And where the old European monarchies had to (often ineptly) try to censor dangerously critical material, the big tech companies ensure our ignorance much more effectively by flooding our culture with rage, distraction and irrelevance.

    These companies are actively working to destroy human enlightenment and usher in a new dark age.

    The screen revolution will shape our politics as profoundly as the reading revolution of the eighteenth century.

    Without the knowledge and without the critical thinking skills instilled by print, many of the citizens of modern democracies find themselves as helpless and as credulous as medieval peasants — moved by irrational appeals and prone to mob thinking. The world after print increasingly resembles the world before print."

    https://jmarriott.substack.com/p/the-dawn-of-the-post-literate-society-aa1

    I remind you of my proposed cure: that algorithmic feeds should be banned. It's simple, it would work, and absolutely nobody is doing it... :(
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,565

    How many of our cooks do something new, rather than relying on tried and tested recipes?

    Great question: I'm about 70% tried-and-tested; 20% that NYTimes recipe looks interesting; and 10%, what's about to go off in the fridge?
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