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Punters still think the Lib Dems will win more seats than the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,205
    edited 11:57AM
    George Monbiot discovers technology.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/dec/05/agriculture-revolution-soil-farming-earth-rover-program

    Unfortunately he didn't return to the opening of the article to say whether their soil seismology had answered the questions about why Tolly's farming methods had not been universally replicable.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,773
    Those LD seats will sweep back to the Tories when they are favoured to return to government to eject Labour.

    Whilst Reform are around the Tories simply won't be able to punch enough votes, but I still expect some to come back because Labour are hitting affluent voters hard.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755
    Australia effectively 44-6 👍
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,375

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd.
    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    It wouldn’t be odd at all to not have any immigrants in the debate
    16% of the UK population were born overseas, it would be quite odd if the BBC had to filter them all out from their audiences.
    Or say us. PB. If the Mods censored all comments about immigration from posters who weren't born in the UK that wouldn't feel right at all, would it.
    I think you'd also have to censor comments about immigration from posters who were born in the UK, but have now emigrated to a different country. They're immigrants too. Plus those with spouses who are immigrants: a clear bias there. Possibly those with parents who were immigrants? Maybe we should extend that to grandparents? Would that satisfy you, @noneoftheabove ?
    Not sure why I should be the arbiter of this but if it were up to me I would ban the whole audience from the studio. Equal opportunities chap here.
    I am sorry @noneoftheabove I got lost in the thread indenting and was thinking you'd said something @isam said.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,170

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Trump, Reform, Ukraine, Putin, the economy, the weather, winter, the cricket ffs!...

    Is the nothing out there even slightly positive that might cheer us up?

    England back in the game.
    I think its heading away again. I see 5-0 approaching.
    Ever the optimist !!
    One of the PhD students is really into his cricket. I spent a good 30 mins explaining why will lose the Ashes in Aussie. He was so excited after Day one of the first test...
    Younger son was there. He rang up in a high state of excitement after day one.

    By no means as happy after day two!

    Grandson Two is currently working in a bar near Brisbane; I must try and get him to tell the state of mind, cricket-wise, of his customers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,957

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,501
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    What about if you’re a celebrity chef doing a demo at a food festival? Or a butcher’s stall at the market?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,997

    IanB2 said:

    In other news, anyone have any better solutions to completely remove burn marks from a stainless steel pan beyond those I have already tried, being barkeepers friend, elbow grease (both actual and the product), and boiling up water and vinegar?

    When I was doing my duke of Edinburgh as a kid we were taught to rub the pan over wet grass...
    Oven cleaner?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,006
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Depends on the race, age, gender and class of the carrier.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,957
    edited 12:10PM

    Those LD seats will sweep back to the Tories when they are favoured to return to government to eject Labour.

    Whilst Reform are around the Tories simply won't be able to punch enough votes, but I still expect some to come back because Labour are hitting affluent voters hard.

    Assuming Reform haven't overtaken the Tories on seats by then in which case they may still vote LD over Reform.

    The LDs have opposed the family farm and business tax, the employers NI rise, the income tax threshold freeze and even opposed the Mansion Tax on properties over £2 million anyway. Hence I expect next to no Tory gains from the LDs at the next GE and Godalming etc might even go LD which the Tories held in 2024. Where the Tories make gains they will be almost entirely in Labour held seats which went Remain in 2016 or are very soft Leave and so unlikely to go Reform.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,147
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Are we expecting to be stopped, and have our shopping bags searched by HYUFD-force ?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,997
    Pulpstar said:

    Stokes is a genuine all rounder, one of the best.
    Atkinson has a batting average of 22 - on the verges of being a genuine bowling all rounder and a better average than Nesser who is Aus' no 8.

    How on earth have we bowled, bar one over, from only 4 bowlers today.

    Archer, Carse, Stoke and Gus have been flogged to death today which is probably a good part of the reason we've gone at over 5 an over - poor selection and captaincy picking Jacks who should have been 12th man and permanently on as sub fielder (Which meant he would still have taken the amazing Smith catch).

    England had 5 batsmen out after 3 balls or less, all the Aussie batsmen have been in for more than 25 balls
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,205
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Are we expecting to be stopped, and have our shopping bags searched by HYUFD-force ?
    I think you can be sure that HYUFD will find a way to interpret your actions to justify whatever the police do to you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,147
    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,066
    a

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Depends on the race, age, gender and class of the carrier.
    Some years back, a chap got convicted for

    - having 2 bladed items in the boot of his car. Both tools
    - his justification for having them was that he worked in bulk newspaper handling facility and they were his tools

    The real story was that he was a ex-con. The police lifted him to question him, and the tools were what they found. Since they wanted to put him away, they used that.

    So yes, if you take your domestic toolbox for a drive, they can do you for that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,147

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Are we expecting to be stopped, and have our shopping bags searched by HYUFD-force ?
    I think you can be sure that HYUFD will find a way to interpret your actions to justify whatever the police do to you.
    Tbh, unless you're going equipped with a sharp blade anyway, you're not going to be able to unpackage a knife you've just bought until you get home.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,558
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Are we expecting to be stopped, and have our shopping bags searched by HYUFD-force ?
    I think he has a point. You can't be convicted for possession of a knife if you have a lawful purpose. If you need a knife for your job, that's a lawful purpose. "I just happened to have bought it" isn't of itself a lawful purpose. You would need to demonstrate you're on your way from the shop to home, I think.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,066
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Are we expecting to be stopped, and have our shopping bags searched by HYUFD-force ?
    I think you can be sure that HYUFD will find a way to interpret your actions to justify whatever the police do to you.
    Tbh, unless you're going equipped with a sharp blade anyway, you're not going to be able to unpackage a knife you've just bought until you get home.
    They’ll just do you for being In Possession Of An Offensive Wife
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,983
    edited 12:20PM
    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,478

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd.
    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    It wouldn’t be odd at all to not have any immigrants in the debate
    16% of the UK population were born overseas, it would be quite odd if the BBC had to filter them all out from their audiences.
    Or say us. PB. If the Mods censored all comments about immigration from posters who weren't born in the UK that wouldn't feel right at all, would it.
    I think you'd also have to censor comments about immigration from posters who were born in the UK, but have now emigrated to a different country. They're immigrants too. Plus those with spouses who are immigrants: a clear bias there. Possibly those with parents who were immigrants? Maybe we should extend that to grandparents? Would that satisfy you, @noneoftheabove ?
    Tut tut, British people are never immigrants! Only colonists and ex-pats.
    I'd have thought it would be obvious that British people abroad are EMigrants :smiley:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,458
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    The retailer sells it legitimately wrapped and taking it home is not an offence no matter how you try to define it

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,232
    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
    Ok, I've not read the article (no access). What do they conclude?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,284
    edited 12:30PM
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Are we expecting to be stopped, and have our shopping bags searched by HYUFD-force ?
    I think he has a point. You can't be convicted for possession of a knife if you have a lawful purpose. If you need a knife for your job, that's a lawful purpose. "I just happened to have bought it" isn't of itself a lawful purpose. You would need to demonstrate you're on your way from the shop to home, I think.
    Yes, because you might have bought it to stab someone. The first is no mitigation for the second. You can wave the receipt around as much as you like but you'll still face charges.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,066

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    The retailer sells it legitimately wrapped and taking it home is not an offence no matter how you try to define it

    If you are found in public place to have a bladed article that meets the criteria, you need a reason the courts consider valid, not to be guilty of a crime.

    In the case I mentioned above, the courts ruled “I had my work tools in the boot of my car. But I wasn’t travelling to and from work.” not to be a valid reason.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,000
    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,957

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    The retailer sells it legitimately wrapped and taking it home is not an offence no matter how you try to define it

    If you took a knife home you had bought unwrapped or took it out of its wrapping to carry it home you would be committing an offence
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,417
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Context is everything. Nephew is a tree surgeon. Got into trouble a while back as he likes to smoke a bit of weed and one night there was a cracking thunderstorm, so he pulled up his truck and smoked and watched... Police arrive - he's bang to rights on the weed, but they find his knife in the truck too. They immediately turn it into a massive thing - drugs 'n' knives etc, when it really wasn't. He's as gentle as they come.

    Also don't be black.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,957
    edited 12:36PM
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    What about if you’re a celebrity chef doing a demo at a food festival? Or a butcher’s stall at the market?
    Same rules apply unless well wrapped, although a butcher with an unwrapped knife just outside his market stall might be able to have that as a legitimate reason
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,256

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    And yet the UK has been generally very good indeed when it comes to Ukraine, quite unlike countries such as Germany (initially) and Hungary.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755
    Netflix have won the bidding war for Warner Bros.

    For wrestling fans this is a worry. Netflix has the WWE which is struggling at the moment with weak ratings and crap booking.

    Warner Bros has the far superior AEW.

    What will happen remains to be seen. Hopefully AEW will still get a platform.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,147

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    It's possibly the most coherent (and hostile) element in a document that's otherwise composed largely of braggadocio and empty pontification.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,621

    a

    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    TimS said:

    carnforth said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. "

    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    Also a little odd to include people who can't (yet) vote in national elections, where immigration policy is decided. Though I suppose it does no harm.

    Next Question Time is a law 'n' order special. Let's fill the seats with ex-cons.

    (Actually, that ain't a bad idea...)
    27% of working age adults have a criminal record. There will be plenty of ex-cons.
    Gosh. I’d have guessed less than 5%.
    It is the most surprising stat I have learnt on here. For men it is 33%.

    This report is a bit lower but official at 22-23%. 27% was from Personnel Today quoting another MoJ report I can't quickly find.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/671a27f0da8fb5e23e65a435/Estimate_of_the_number_of_working_age_people_with_a_nominal_record_on_the_Police_National_Computer_pdf.pdf
    Obvs people are discreet about it, but AFAIK none of my close acquaintances have a criminal record.
    How do you know? Especially if spent, speeding, not paying a train fare, careless driving, drink driving, forgetting to pay for something in a shop, not paying enough tax, smoking cannabis, taking cocaine etc can all be criminal offences
    You've changed "shoplifting" into "forgetting to pay for something in a shop"! Do you have something to hide??

    You could just as easily have said "forgetting to buy a train ticket, failing to see a speed limit sign, getting your maths wrong on your tax form...."
    Well shoplifiting could be forgetting to pay for something in a shop.

    It could and I'm sure it happens, but it isn't. Forgetting to pay for something isn't shoplifting. It is an honest mistake. Obviously you may have to convince someone of that.

    We joke that my wife is a thief. Several days after being at a restaurant she found a knife from the restaurant in her bag. She has no idea how it got there (so she says).

    Having said that I take @hyufd's point. It is easy to have had a minor offence. I think I am completely clean, but I have had one speeding offence sometime ago from a camera. Does that count? I don't think it does.
    Yes, if a magistrate or jury decides your forgetting to pay for something was done with intent, bang you are convicted and have a criminal record.

    Possession of a knife in a public place is also a criminal offence, I am sure not done with intent by your wife but sometimes it is a case of there but for the grace of God go I, certainly for minor criminal offences if not careful at all times. As you say, speeding is also against the law and lots of people including you have done that
    If I buy a new carving knife at the department store, how do I get it home legally? Do I have to get the store to deliver it now?
    You have to put it in secure packaging and ideally in the boot of your car to avoid the police looking suspicious if they find you with it
    You do talk nonsense at times

    Why would anyone need to hide a knife they had legitimately purchased from a shop and were taking it home ?
    As possession of a knife in a public place which has a blade larger than 7.62cm is a criminal offence in the UK even if legitimately purchased.

    You would have to ensure it was very well wrapped and packaged to avoid being questioned by the police
    Wouldn’t a receipt from the shop and it being in its packaging suffice ?
    Depends on the race, age, gender and class of the carrier.
    Some years back, a chap got convicted for

    - having 2 bladed items in the boot of his car. Both tools
    - his justification for having them was that he worked in bulk newspaper handling facility and they were his tools

    The real story was that he was a ex-con. The police lifted him to question him, and the tools were what they found. Since they wanted to put him away, they used that.

    So yes, if you take your domestic toolbox for a drive, they can do you for that.
    A Leatherman multi-tool can be awkward, as they have locking blades and therefore the blade length rule is irrelevant.

    A big change from my youth when carrying a penknife just in case it was useful was regarded as fairly normal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,498
    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
    In similar vein, Waitrose has just emailed to let me know that I am the top buyer of their rosemary and garlic crackers on the island. Someone in their data-crunching department has too much time on their hands…
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,957

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    Democrats haven't, Hillary Clinton and Obama openly opposed Brexit.

    Only Republicans like Trump backed Brexit
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,000

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    And yet the UK has been generally very good indeed when it comes to Ukraine, quite unlike countries such as Germany (initially) and Hungary.
    And how much more decisive might Europe's response have been if the UK had been inside the tent urging it's fellows on? One thing you can be damn sure of: Putin went to sleep with a smile on his face on 24 June 2016.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    And yet the UK has been generally very good indeed when it comes to Ukraine, quite unlike countries such as Germany (initially) and Hungary.
    And how much more decisive might Europe's response have been if the UK had been inside the tent urging it's fellows on? One thing you can be damn sure of: Putin went to sleep with a smile on his face on 24 June 2016.
    Something else that’s Brexit’s fault. Ukraine. 😂😂😂😂
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,820
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    viewcode said:

    LeftieStats on the latest FON poll

    POLL | Labour drop to just **14%**

    ➡️ REF: 31% (-)
    🔵 CON: 20% (+2)
    🟢 GRN: 18% (+1)
    🔴 LAB: 14% (-1)
    🟠 LD: 11% (-1)

    Via FindoutnowUK, 3 Dec (+/- vs 26 Nov), see https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1996601733305291097#m

    Seat estimate | Labour wipeout

    ➡️ REF: 360 (+355)
    🟢 GRN: 79 (+75)
    🟠 LD: 72 (-)
    🔵 CON: 48 (-73)
    🟡 SNP: 45 (+36)
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 PLAID: 7 (+3)
    🔴 LAB: 4 (-407)

    Based on FindoutnowUK poll, 3 Dec (+/- vs GE24)

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1996604305189568632#m

    Difficult to make out, but am i right in thinking 2 of the 4 Labour seats are in Scotland?
    Looks like Edinburgh South, Lothian East, Liverpool Garston and Putney
    It's fun for sure. But StatsForLefties - bless their cotton socks
    Liars, damned liars, and Statisticians?
    AHEM.
    You claimed I was quoting Spock the other day when it was actually Palpatine :lol:
    No, he said you were misquoting Spock.
    Was Palpatine doing likewise ?
    Now, boy, witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Labour Majority!
    [into intercom] Fire at will, Mr. Starmer!
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755
    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
    In similar vein, Waitrose has just emailed to let me know that I am the top buyer of their rosemary and garlic crackers on the island. Someone in their data-crunching department has too much time on their hands…
    I know the posh boys here look down on teapigs but I love their breakfast tea. I was the top buyer of this product at my Sainsbury’s according to Nectar a couple of years back 👍
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,256

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    And yet the UK has been generally very good indeed when it comes to Ukraine, quite unlike countries such as Germany (initially) and Hungary.
    And how much more decisive might Europe's response have been if the UK had been inside the tent urging it's fellows on? One thing you can be damn sure of: Putin went to sleep with a smile on his face on 24 June 2016.
    It was a choice by the political class to refuse to engage with the electorate until it was impossible not to. Had Labour held its promised referendum we would've roundly rejected Lisbon - and remained in the EU. It's a cop-out to blame Putin when the fault lies with the UK's political class which failed both to resist ever closer integration and offer a referendum in it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,175
    Taz said:

    Netflix have won the bidding war for Warner Bros.

    For wrestling fans this is a worry. Netflix has the WWE which is struggling at the moment with weak ratings and crap booking.

    Warner Bros has the far superior AEW.

    What will happen remains to be seen. Hopefully AEW will still get a platform.



    "The announcement will send shock waves through Hollywood and the broader media landscape. Netflix is already the world’s largest paid streaming service, with more than 300 million subscribers. Bulking up with Warner Bros. Discovery assets would create a colossus with greater leverage over theater owners and entertainment-industry unions. It could force smaller companies to merge as they scramble to compete."

    NY Times
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755
    The BBC. The finest news organisation in the world

    ‘ Why I'm terrified of motorways even though I've been driving for 20 years’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ylnw9g994o
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,863

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    And yet the UK has been generally very good indeed when it comes to Ukraine, quite unlike countries such as Germany (initially) and Hungary.
    And how much more decisive might Europe's response have been if the UK had been inside the tent urging it's fellows on? One thing you can be damn sure of: Putin went to sleep with a smile on his face on 24 June 2016.
    Or would the UK’s support and decisiveness been watered down or restrained by EU wrangling if inside the tent?

    When there are countries inside the tent who seem to be more exercised by what’s going on with Israel/Gaza - Ireland and Spain - and countries who might prefer Russia such as Hungary maybe Ukraine would be better off if there was no EU and Germany, France, and others could act totally freely.

    We will never know but suggesting that Brexit held back Europe’s response is a bit unlikely.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,865

    Nigelb said:

    The new US national security document seems to be actively hostile towards Europe.

    The new 🇺🇸 security strategy proclaims, among other remarkable things, as an aim of 🇺🇸 policy ”cultivating resistance to Europe's current trajectory within European nations.”
    https://x.com/carlbildt/status/1996855580468674617

    At the same time as they are purporting to negotiate our future security, on our behalf, with an actively hostile Russia.

    The US, like Russia, has been seeking to undermine European unity for a long time, but they were never so open about it before. Brexit was an absolute triumph for Europe's enemies and competitors.
    And yet the UK has been generally very good indeed when it comes to Ukraine, quite unlike countries such as Germany (initially) and Hungary.
    And how much more decisive might Europe's response have been if the UK had been inside the tent urging it's fellows on? One thing you can be damn sure of: Putin went to sleep with a smile on his face on 24 June 2016.
    Decisive? The EU?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,865
    Taz said:

    The BBC. The finest news organisation in the world

    ‘ Why I'm terrified of motorways even though I've been driving for 20 years’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ylnw9g994o

    I almost posted that this morning! The only excuse I can find is that it's linked to a Radio episode, and maybe the episode is good.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,621
    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
    In similar vein, Waitrose has just emailed to let me know that I am the top buyer of their rosemary and garlic crackers on the island. Someone in their data-crunching department has too much time on their hands…
    Apparently I'm one of the biggest buyers of chocolate-coated peanuts. Which I don't even buy for myself, but for a disabled friend I go shopping for.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 716
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd.
    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    It wouldn’t be odd at all to not have any immigrants in the debate
    16% of the UK population were born overseas, it would be quite odd if the BBC had to filter them all out from their audiences.
    Or say us. PB. If the Mods censored all comments about immigration from posters who weren't born in the UK that wouldn't feel right at all, would it.
    I think you'd also have to censor comments about immigration from posters who were born in the UK, but have now emigrated to a different country. They're immigrants too. Plus those with spouses who are immigrants: a clear bias there. Possibly those with parents who were immigrants? Maybe we should extend that to grandparents? Would that satisfy you, @noneoftheabove ?
    Tut tut, British people are never immigrants! Only colonists and ex-pats.
    I'd have thought it would be obvious that British people abroad are EMigrants :smiley:

    I am wondering how Zia lost the debate last night. He set the stall of Reform and did not back down. There are some people who will agree with it and others who wont. A BBC QT audience is maybe not the most representative of the general population.

    The byelections last night suggest that Reform is consolidating its position. Reform got 29% of votes, Labour 7% and Greens 5%. Lib Dens had 31% and Tories 18%. Maybe BBC should rethink inviting minority support parties such as Labour on every week.

    I am pleased to see the Tories stabilising their position even though they are still too focussed on the pension vote. Would say 50/50 if they get more seats than Lib Dems. The Lib Dems at risk from being seen as too left wing and losing some of their existing seats rural seats. The Tories risk is Reform taking further bites out of their voter base.











  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,485
    It is merely a few hours until The Liz Truss Show!

    Finally we will hear the Truth!!!
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755

    Taz said:

    Netflix have won the bidding war for Warner Bros.

    For wrestling fans this is a worry. Netflix has the WWE which is struggling at the moment with weak ratings and crap booking.

    Warner Bros has the far superior AEW.

    What will happen remains to be seen. Hopefully AEW will still get a platform.



    "The announcement will send shock waves through Hollywood and the broader media landscape. Netflix is already the world’s largest paid streaming service, with more than 300 million subscribers. Bulking up with Warner Bros. Discovery assets would create a colossus with greater leverage over theater owners and entertainment-industry unions. It could force smaller companies to merge as they scramble to compete."

    NY Times
    A lot,of the value in these deals is in the archives that come with it.

    When WWF bought WCW for a tiny amount they got the back catalogue and were able to make a fortune from it in the DVD era.

    Hopefully it won’t end up a dud like the AOL-Time Warner deal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,147
    US tells NATO may withdraw from some NATO planning mechanisms if Europe does not "take over the majority of NATO's conventional defense capabilities" by 2027
    https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/1996899432588365984
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,957

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    BBCQT last night was interesting.

    How Zia Yousef could lose the room on an immigration special in Dover was a new level of uselessness. Here he is insulting an audience member:

    https://bsky.app/profile/implausibleblog.bsky.social/post/3m774ugj4e22s

    Got to say the BBC putting illegal immigrants in the audience allows him to focus on something else - attacking the BBC for pulling that stunt.
    They were not illegal immigrants, they were successful asylum seekers with ILR, so by definition not illegal.

    Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd. It wasn't these that gave Zia a hard time (indeed both came over fairly poorly) it was the white British in the audience that were giving him a hard time.

    Credit to Polanski and Cooper for winning that audience.

    "Having a debate on immigration without any immigrants having a say would be rather odd.
    Would it? It would be odder to include voices on an issue who had a vested interest, a bias, in one direction.
    It wouldn’t be odd at all to not have any immigrants in the debate
    16% of the UK population were born overseas, it would be quite odd if the BBC had to filter them all out from their audiences.
    Or say us. PB. If the Mods censored all comments about immigration from posters who weren't born in the UK that wouldn't feel right at all, would it.
    I think you'd also have to censor comments about immigration from posters who were born in the UK, but have now emigrated to a different country. They're immigrants too. Plus those with spouses who are immigrants: a clear bias there. Possibly those with parents who were immigrants? Maybe we should extend that to grandparents? Would that satisfy you, @noneoftheabove ?
    Tut tut, British people are never immigrants! Only colonists and ex-pats.
    I'd have thought it would be obvious that British people abroad are EMigrants :smiley:

    I am wondering how Zia lost the debate last night. He set the stall of Reform and did not back down. There are some people who will agree with it and others who wont. A BBC QT audience is maybe not the most representative of the general population.

    The byelections last night suggest that Reform is consolidating its position. Reform got 29% of votes, Labour 7% and Greens 5%. Lib Dens had 31% and Tories 18%. Maybe BBC should rethink inviting minority support parties such as Labour on every week.

    I am pleased to see the Tories stabilising their position even though they are still too focussed on the pension vote. Would say 50/50 if they get more seats than Lib Dems. The Lib Dems at risk from being seen as too left wing and losing some of their existing seats rural seats. The Tories risk is Reform taking further bites out of their voter base.











    Still, LDs first and Reform second in voteshare on last night's by election results is not great for either the Tories or Labour.

    Polanski would also be hoping for more than the 5% the Greens got, Labour at least beat the Greens despite the hype
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,755
    carnforth said:

    Taz said:

    The BBC. The finest news organisation in the world

    ‘ Why I'm terrified of motorways even though I've been driving for 20 years’

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ylnw9g994o

    I almost posted that this morning! The only excuse I can find is that it's linked to a Radio episode, and maybe the episode is good.
    There’s alot of that with the Beeb news now, both broadcast and online, also ITV news. They have news ‘articles’ that are little more than plugs for TV shows that usually attract a small amount of viewers. If you’ve seen the five minute segment on the main news why watch the 30 minute show ?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,006

    It is merely a few hours until The Liz Truss Show!

    Finally we will hear the Truth!!!

    Might it be she was right all along perhaps?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,075

    IanB2 said:

    In other news, anyone have any better solutions to completely remove burn marks from a stainless steel pan beyond those I have already tried, being barkeepers friend, elbow grease (both actual and the product), and boiling up water and vinegar?

    A cleaning product with phosphoric acid in it?
    Like Coke.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,953
    edited 1:03PM
    @viewcode

    I got your message on the previous thread and will respond as requested.

    I note this comment from you, which is a view share by some other posters -

    "I hold the Widdecombe position on trans: namely, those who have gone all the way surgically/hormonally and can reasonably function as the opposite sex should be allowed to be legally considered as the opposite sex."

    I realise that people cannot be expected to follow the ins and outs of complicated areas of law. But the ECHR ruled in 2017 in the case of Garçon & Nicot v France (followed in a case against Italy in 2018 and Romania in 2021 saying the same) that countries could NOT insist on surgery (with a high risk of sterility) as a condition for recognising a change in gender in law. The ECHR has ruled that a change gender identity must in certain circumstances be recognised in law, regardless of a persons physical body. This therefore means means that you cannot link gender recognition to surgery/hormone treatment and must give it to, for instance, a man who has made no changes to his body whatsoever or to a woman trying to get pregnant, if they claim to have changed their gender (re this last, see the recent ruling by Mr Justice Hayden in the "W" case - in October 2025).

    Ms Widdecombe, as a former MP and Minister in the Home Office, should have done her research before opining on this or putting this forward as some sort of solution or compromise. It isn't. It is unlawful. This debate is persistently hampered by politicians and commentators putting forward "solutions" which are unlawful. It is unfair and unkind to all concerned to offer false solutions and to mislead about what the law says and has said for some time, whatever side of the debate anyone is on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,066
    a

    IanB2 said:

    In other news, anyone have any better solutions to completely remove burn marks from a stainless steel pan beyond those I have already tried, being barkeepers friend, elbow grease (both actual and the product), and boiling up water and vinegar?

    A cleaning product with phosphoric acid in it?
    Like Coke.
    Stronger than that. There are a number out there - handle with care!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,284
    edited 1:04PM
    IanB2 said:

    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
    In similar vein, Waitrose has just emailed to let me know that I am the top buyer of their rosemary and garlic crackers on the island. Someone in their data-crunching department has too much time on their hands…
    Galling that it's only in a private email, Ian, rather than the local paper.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,075
    viewcode said:

    IanB2 said:

    On topic, for those with access to Economist articles:

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system

    Our election model considers what might happen in each of Britain’s 632 constituencies if an election were held today. But rather than giving a single prediction, we fine-tuned our model to show a range of possible outcomes, based on historical trends and the latest opinion polls. As illustrated above, Britain’s electoral system is highly uncertain. We drew on data from the past 80 years of elections to quantify this uncertainty, and estimate how it might unfold in an imaginary election.

    I've read it (https://www.economist.com/interactive/britain/2025/12/04/our-new-model-captures-the-lottery-of-britains-electoral-system ).

    Here are my initial thoughts

    "...The starting point for our model is nationwide opinion polling..."
    • That's your input, but what's your output?
    "...We measured the difference between thousands of historical nationwide polls and the subsequent election results to estimate the likely polling error if an election were held today. We found that polling errors often lean towards the last election result (perhaps because undecided voters return to the party they supported last time) and encoded that into our model..."
    • OK the best predictor of the next election is the last election, but I could have told them that. And they're modelling the polling error (between the poll and the vote?)
    "...Next we considered how each region and nation might swing..."
    • Fair enough, you've added a regional component. I like that. This is presumably a swing in the vote?
    "...We fit a regression model to consider the historical relationship between a party’s vote share in a constituency in one election and the next, given the nationwide and regional picture..."

    OK, you've built a model that inputs one or more polls, the estimated polling error and regional swing, and converts that to...an election vote in a region?

    "...Finally, we translate these regional results to each constituency [using MRP]...."
    • OK, got that,
    So they have three models.

    MODEL 0
    • Inputs: lots of historical and regional polls up to the last election
    • Method: Simulation
    • Output: polling error and regional swing for the next election
    MODEL 1
    • Inputs: Today's poll(s)
    • Method: Linear regression?
    • Output: Today's election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    MODEL 2
    • Input: election vote in the regions and nations taking polling error and regional swing into account
    • Method: MRP
    • Output: Today's election result for each constituency and hence today's election result
    Not to mention their model is based on data from as far back as the 1945 election.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,865
    Cyclefree said:

    @viewcode

    I got your message on the previous thread and will respond as requested.

    I note this comment from you, which is a view share by some other posters -

    "I hold the Widdecombe position on trans: namely, those who have gone all the way surgically/hormonally and can reasonably function as the opposite sex should be allowed to be legally considered as the opposite sex."

    I realise that people cannot be expected to follow the ins and outs of complicated areas of law. But the ECHR ruled in 2017 in the case of Garçon & Nicot v France (followed in a case against Italy in 2018 and Romania in 2021 saying the same) that countries could NOT insist on surgery (with a high risk of sterility) as a condition for recognising a change in gender in law. The ECHR has ruled that a change gender identity must in certain circumstances be recognised in law, regardless of a persons physical body. This therefore means means that you cannot link gender recognition to surgery/hormone treatment and must give it to, for instance, a man who has made no changes to his body whatsoever or to a woman trying to get pregnant, if they claim to have changed their gender (re this last, see the recent ruling by Mr Justice Hayden in the "W" case - in October 2025).

    Ms Widdecombe, as a former MP and Minister in the Home Office, should have done her research before opining on this or putting this forward as some sort of solution or compromise. It isn't. It is unlawful. This debate is persistently hampered by politicians and commentators putting forward "solutions" which are unlawful. It is unfair and unkind to all concerned to offer false solutions and to mislead about what the law says and has said for some time, whatever side of the debate anyone is on.

    In mild defence of Widdecombe, she is on record as wanting to leave the ECHR. So the unlawfulness to her is temporary.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,461
    Cyclefree said:

    @viewcode

    I got your message on the previous thread and will respond as requested.

    I note this comment from you, which is a view share by some other posters -

    "I hold the Widdecombe position on trans: namely, those who have gone all the way surgically/hormonally and can reasonably function as the opposite sex should be allowed to be legally considered as the opposite sex."

    I realise that people cannot be expected to follow the ins and outs of complicated areas of law. But the ECHR ruled in 2017 in the case of Garçon & Nicot v France (followed in a case against Italy in 2018 and Romania in 2021 saying the same) that countries could NOT insist on surgery (with a high risk of sterility) as a condition for recognising a change in gender in law. The ECHR has ruled that a change gender identity must in certain circumstances be recognised in law, regardless of a persons physical body. This therefore means means that you cannot link gender recognition to surgery/hormone treatment and must give it to, for instance, a man who has made no changes to his body whatsoever or to a woman trying to get pregnant, if they claim to have changed their gender (re this last, see the recent ruling by Mr Justice Hayden in the "W" case - in October 2025).

    Ms Widdecombe, as a former MP and Minister in the Home Office, should have done her research before opining on this or putting this forward as some sort of solution or compromise. It isn't. It is unlawful. This debate is persistently hampered by politicians and commentators putting forward "solutions" which are unlawful. It is unfair and unkind to all concerned to offer false solutions and to mislead about what the law says and has said for some time, whatever side of the debate anyone is on.

    This debate is also persistently hampered by a confusion and mingling of two separate thing, sex and gender. The law should be concerned with the former, the latter being merely what an individual chooses to think of themself as.
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