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I think this bet on this Florida Man is worth a punt – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,797
edited 4:04PM in General
I think this bet on this Florida Man is worth a punt – politicalbetting.com

One of the reasons I have backed Ron DeSantis is that if the Trump presidency turns into a bit of a disaster (well more of a disaster than it currently is) then that damages the likes of J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio.

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,867
    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,237

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192
    Someone has to be US President next time around. I fear though that you're going to find yourself having tipped more than a hundred 100-1 shots at this rate.

    Back here in the UK I think your long odds pointer-outers have been interesting too. (I do think I pre-tipped you re Lammy).

    These are odd times - ok everyone always says that, but the time will get much much odder as we approach US2028 and UK2029.

    Whilst I think much more highly of Reeves than the rest of you (albeit she's wildly misguided as she's in the Labour party) if she buggers up the 2029 election betting I'm not sure I'll ever forgive her.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,867

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
    Puts a massive hole in their portfolio, there’s no way they can justify their current prices from 2027.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,758
    edited 4:19PM
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetnholler.bsky.social‬

    Trump is now calling for the executions of Democratic veterans who reminded the military of their duty to disobey “ILLEGAL” orders.

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3m633jmalbk2w

    I watched their video last night. It seemed very innocuous to me. However a foaming, rabid Stephen Miller was banging on about their treason on Fox or Newsmax (I can't remember which, they all merge into a vile word soup). Presumably Miller has had a word with Trump.

    I am quite convinced executions of political opponents will happen as the Mad King gets madder, and the power behind the throne, Stephen Miller is already beyond morality.
    I'd be interested for them to state precisely which illegal orders they believe that the military shaped be obliged to follow.
    A couple of examples, at the very least.
    Miller is working on the premise that Trump is a divine right King. Imploring soldiers to follow the Constitution rather than illegal instructions from the Divine Right King, according to Miller, is treason.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,585

    Afternoon everybody!

    Take it you’re backing DeSantis as a candidate, not as President. The way things are going, no Republican is going to win.

    How often does an insurgent candidate from within the ruling party win in America? Normally, IF the VP doesn't follow the President, the White House goes to the other party. I'm struggling to think of a recent example.

    It's rare you don't have either the incumbent President or Vice President on one of the tickets - it happened in 2008 and 2016 but it's a rarity so you'd expect Vance to be the GOP candidate.

    We have seen Vice Presidents face strong primary challenges - would Humphrey have beaten RFK in 1968 if the latter hadn't been murdered while Reagan ran Ford close in 1976 (though of course Ford hadn't been on the 1972 ticket and only became VP after the resignation of Agnew).

    History tells me therefore Vance will likely win the GOP nomination if he runs but De Santis might be the candidate if he doesn't.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
    No CL but still some prem games in a big lose for UK viewers. To watch your Man U or TSE his Liverpool live games across all different tournaments, you now need to subscribe to 74 different platforms.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,237

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
    Puts a massive hole in their portfolio, there’s no way they can justify their current prices from 2027.
    Thanks and it does raise the question about renewing their contract next summer
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    edited 4:32PM
    48% will still be alive and with us is a huge Covid headline. Boris is going to be jailed, as one of Britains most notorious mass murderers.

    It doesn’t sit well alongside remembering not just the Downing Street partying, but the chequers partying, dirt biking, using chequers for the wedding, £400K a roll wallpaper etc.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,375

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Does this mean all those matches have to be played at a time that suits the US viewers?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192
    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    TMS will cover The Ashes, providing live ball-by-ball radio commentary on BBC Sounds, BBC Radio 5 Sports Extra, and the BBC Sport website. They will also offer a daily podcast with reaction and analysis.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,976

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
    Puts a massive hole in their portfolio, there’s no way they can justify their current prices from 2027.
    Thanks and it does raise the question about renewing their contract next summer
    There's rumours that TNT is to be taken over iirc.

    By Paramount!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,758
    ...

    Good afternoon

    I know this poll has been posted but Labour with just 12 seats - really?

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1991508310810640491?s=19

    Third time posted, three to go!
    Only just arrived

    Breaking

    All 4 governments condemned by Covid enquiry

    23,000 lives could have been saved

    Hallett has the benefit of hindsight. Johnson didn't.
    He did have the benefit of lots of people around him telling him stuff.

    Look, I was there, it was chaotic and difficult in the early months, and I'm happy to give Johnson et al. a fair bit of leeway, but he got the big calls wrong!
    Comment ca?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,976

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
    Puts a massive hole in their portfolio, there’s no way they can justify their current prices from 2027.
    Thanks and it does raise the question about renewing their contract next summer
    Certainly does.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,867
    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    Do you have an EE mobile phone contract? If so you can get TNT Sport as a free add on depending on the tariff.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,422

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Ah yes, who can forget when ONDigital got the rights to the Champions League games, and used that to destroy Sky and dominate British TV.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192

    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    TMS will cover The Ashes, providing live ball-by-ball radio commentary on BBC Sounds, BBC Radio 5 Sports Extra, and the BBC Sport website. They will also offer a daily podcast with reaction and analysis.
    Yep. Top coverage. I'd quite like to see it on tv though. There seems to be no acceptable way.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,758

    48% will still be alive and with us is a huge Covid headline. Boris is going to be jailed, as one of Britains most notorious mass murderers.

    It doesn’t sit well alongside remembering not just the Downing Street partying, but the chequers partying, dirt biking, using chequers for the wedding, £400K a roll wallpaper etc.

    I read once that David Bowie would write songs by cutting words out of the Daily Mail, throw them up in the air and base his lyrics on how the words landed. I am assuming you did the same to construct your post.

    It's good but it's no Life on Mars.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597

    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    Do you have an EE mobile phone contract? If so you can get TNT Sport as a free add on depending on the tariff.
    35 million in UK use EE. I was looking into it recently.

    I switched to VOXI.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,237

    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    Do you have an EE mobile phone contract? If so you can get TNT Sport as a free add on depending on the tariff.
    35 million in UK use EE. I was looking into it recently.

    I switched to VOXI.
    I have both EE and Sky contracts
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192

    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    Do you have an EE mobile phone contract? If so you can get TNT Sport as a free add on depending on the tariff.
    No, not EE.

    Doesn't matter I guess, but given the BBC is likely to cease to exist very soon I'm going to be very annoyed indeed to have to sign up to coverage of the ghastly sport of football in order to see the gentle sport of cricket.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,447

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Interesting and how does that affect TNT
    Puts a massive hole in their portfolio, there’s no way they can justify their current prices from 2027.
    Thanks and it does raise the question about renewing their contract next summer
    There's rumours that TNT is to be taken over iirc.

    By Paramount!
    Sell Paramount.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597

    48% will still be alive and with us is a huge Covid headline. Boris is going to be jailed, as one of Britains most notorious mass murderers.

    It doesn’t sit well alongside remembering not just the Downing Street partying, but the chequers partying, dirt biking, using chequers for the wedding, £400K a roll wallpaper etc.

    I read once that David Bowie would write songs by cutting words out of the Daily Mail, throw them up in the air and base his lyrics on how the words landed. I am assuming you did the same to construct your post.

    It's good but it's no Life on Mars.
    Thanks for saying it’s a good post. I agree with you.

    Boris was a disaster for the Conservative brand.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,976
    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,867
    From Popbitch

    Elections might be many moons away yet, but Reform, at least, is wasting no time cherry-picking their future candidates.

    Among the rogues gallery of potential Reform MPs? Who else but GB News presenter - Matt Goodwin!

    Given that he just became, at the sprightly age of 43, head of the party’s new student organisation, Goodwin is a fairly obvious choice.

    But perhaps Nigel & co should be a bit more cautious. The honorary prez of Students4Reform was overheard at a pub moaning that Reform were likely to completely fuck it during their first run at governing, but that whatever movement comes after will be much more interesting.

    Which is either very pessimistic, or very optimistic, depending on how you look at it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,976
    Pretty damning review of where Labour stands by Martin Kettle today:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/nov/20/labour-government-credibility-budget
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,375

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    Hang on, I thought it was decided that the vaccine was a mis-step and that we'd have been better off if we'd just toughed it out.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,447
    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    They clearly had their heads in the sand at the start (although, wasn't there a rumour that some of the scientists wanted to "let it rip"?). Where they got it badly wrong was allowing people to go abroad in the summer and not locking down in September and October. That way, people could have made their own calls on Xmas. Instead, we got the worst of all worlds.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,421

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    They got a lot wrong.

    But the one I find particularly hard to convince myself of is that the UK could have avoided lockdown entirely.

    If you recall the political, media and public mood at the time, it’s simply for the birds.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,528
    What sort of message does this send?

    "Romanian grooming gang boss offered £1,500 to leave UK while awaiting trial for 10 rapes"

    https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-grooming-gang-boss-offered-1-500-to-leave-uk-while-awaiting-trial-for-10-rapes-13471714
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,422
    edited 5:02PM
    Here are some realistic Republican nominees next time around:

    Josh Hawley
    Tom Cotton
    Ted Cruz
    Marco Rubio
    Ron DeSantis

    and

    JD Vance

    also and...

    Marjorie Taylor Greene

    and and...

    A Trump child

    Right now, almost irrespective of the popularity of the current administration with the general population, it is political suicide to step out of line with Trump.

    In a winner-takes-all contest, where 30% might well be enough to pickup Iowa and New Hampshire, it's hard to see Trump not having enough sway to ensure that his candidate gets the nomination.

    There are just two small problems.

    The first is that JD Vance - the obvious pick as VP - is as inspiring a campaigner as Kamala Harris. The man nearly lost Ohio in the 2022 midterms.

    The second is that Trump will want someoen who he has proper control over.

    I therefore think one of the Trump children - wildly unsuitable as they are - may be the best bet. My money's on Eric.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,596
    edited 5:04PM

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    One key issue stated was the need to slow things down to keep the number of serious cases within the capacity of the health services. At least at the time. (Also, I suppose, they were still working out how best to treat this new disease.)

    What the report says on this, I don't know.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,597
    AnneJGP said:

    This massive.

    Paramount to show most Champions League games in UK from 2027-31

    US network made largest bid at this week’s auction

    Amazon Prime will have first pick of Tuesday matches


    The US media and entertainment giant Paramount Skydance has won the auction for the rights to broadcast most Champions League matches in the UK from 2027 to 2031 in a major shake-up of the domestic rights market.

    The Guardian has learned that Paramount, whose subsidiary company Paramount+ owns the rights for Champions League games in the US, made the largest bid in this week’s auction and an announcement is due. Amazon Prime is poised to land the first pick of Tuesday matches in major European markets in the new streaming deal sold by Uefa.

    Sources with knowledge of the tender process say Paramount’s bid was considerably higher than the £1bn currently paid by TNT in what will be regarded as a successful auction for the Uefa-owned joint venture UC3, which runs the Champions League, and its new commercial rights distributor, Relevent Football Partners.


    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/nov/20/paramount-champions-league-games-uk-amazon-prime-tuesday

    Does this mean all those matches have to be played at a time that suits the US viewers?
    7.30pm West Coast will be fun....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,442
    edited 5:06PM

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    How we forget all those discussions on here about R !

    I don't need an inquiry to tell me Johnson is "toxic and chaotic", but a good three word summary of the man nevertheless.

    On the actual conclusions, I now cut Johnson more slack than I did at the time. Clearly a lot of decision making could have been better, but no-one got this completely right. In the end the UK was middle ranking amongst peers. Some countries did better but some did worse.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,596
    FF43 said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    How we forget all those discussions on here about R !

    I don't need an inquiry to tell me Johnson is "toxic and chaotic", but a good three word summary of the man nevertheless.

    On the actual conclusions, I now cut Johnson more slack than I did at the time. Clearly a lot of decision making could have been better, but no-one got this completely right. The UK was middle ranking amongst peers. Some countries did better but some did worse.
    The nature of exponential maths ... for some reason I think of an Oxford chemist ...
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,509

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,193
    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,596

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    Give the yowes a hug from me, they'll need it.

    North Riding seems to be catching it today.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192
    rcs1000 said:

    Here are some realistic Republican nominees next time around:

    Josh Hawley
    Tom Cotton
    Ted Cruz
    Marco Rubio
    Ron DeSantis

    and

    JD Vance

    also and...

    Marjorie Taylor Greene

    and and...

    A Trump child

    Right now, almost irrespective of the popularity of the current administration with the general population, it is political suicide to step out of line with Trump.

    In a winner-takes-all contest, where 30% might well be enough to pickup Iowa and New Hampshire, it's hard to see Trump not having enough sway to ensure that his candidate gets the nomination.

    There are just two small problems.

    The first is that JD Vance - the obvious pick as VP - is as inspiring a campaigner as Kamala Harris. The man nearly lost Ohio in the 2022 midterms.

    The second is that Trump will want someoen who he has proper control over.

    I therefore think one of the Trump children - wildly unsuitable as they are - may be the best bet. My money's on Eric.

    Hard to disagree with the above. There are obviously some more possible Republicans. Trump is going to want both control and a legacy. The obvious choice is himself - he's going to clown around to try to achieve that. But that's only 50/50, so he'll try to manipulate the system in other ways. The next President will most likely be a Trump, but swift change will follow that.

    (I still like Harris at very long odds)
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,509
    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    There were x million workers using the Tube at that time. Cheltenham was a minor blip.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,426
    Mani has joined Nana and the Angles

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04g4x0kkdpo
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,596

    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.

    Enshittification in action.

    "Once upon a time, dearest Best Beloved, there were only four television channels. And every last one of them was free, once one had paid one's licence into the Post Office."
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,824
    edited 5:13PM
    If you want some happy news, Amazon Prime is making a new series in the Stargate franchise. It is not a reboot.

    https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/new-stargate-tv-series-amazon-martin-gero-1236585606/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,815
    rcs1000 said:

    Here are some realistic Republican nominees next time around:

    Josh Hawley
    Tom Cotton
    Ted Cruz
    Marco Rubio
    Ron DeSantis

    and

    JD Vance

    also and...

    Marjorie Taylor Greene

    and and...

    A Trump child

    Right now, almost irrespective of the popularity of the current administration with the general population, it is political suicide to step out of line with Trump.

    In a winner-takes-all contest, where 30% might well be enough to pickup Iowa and New Hampshire, it's hard to see Trump not having enough sway to ensure that his candidate gets the nomination.

    There are just two small problems.

    The first is that JD Vance - the obvious pick as VP - is as inspiring a campaigner as Kamala Harris. The man nearly lost Ohio in the 2022 midterms.

    The second is that Trump will want someoen who he has proper control over.

    I therefore think one of the Trump children - wildly unsuitable as they are - may be the best bet. My money's on Eric.

    What about Jared Kushner? He’s been trusted/boosted to be on the global stage mixing it with the great and the bad and making deals worth billions for the Trumps/Kushners, married to Ivanka so Trump has the family connection and he’s probably somewhat more intelligent than Eric Trump.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    Carnyx said:

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    Give the yowes a hug from me, they'll need it.

    North Riding seems to be catching it today.
    People make fuss of snow, but even without snow getting soaked and then in cold wind can give sheep hyperthermia. As it is, brought two to shed, as they were so lethargic and weird. That could even be their normal personality though! 😆
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,519
    rcs1000 said:

    Here are some realistic Republican nominees next time around:

    Josh Hawley
    Tom Cotton
    Ted Cruz
    Marco Rubio
    Ron DeSantis

    and

    JD Vance

    also and...

    Marjorie Taylor Greene

    and and...

    A Trump child

    Right now, almost irrespective of the popularity of the current administration with the general population, it is political suicide to step out of line with Trump.

    In a winner-takes-all contest, where 30% might well be enough to pickup Iowa and New Hampshire, it's hard to see Trump not having enough sway to ensure that his candidate gets the nomination.

    There are just two small problems.

    The first is that JD Vance - the obvious pick as VP - is as inspiring a campaigner as Kamala Harris. The man nearly lost Ohio in the 2022 midterms.

    The second is that Trump will want someoen who he has proper control over.

    I therefore think one of the Trump children - wildly unsuitable as they are - may be the best bet. My money's on Eric.

    MTG is perhaps interesting, as hardcore MAGA who has been the first to call the end of Trump as a leader of the GOP, and sound actually pretty rational in doing so.
    That might conceivably position her as someone who could reunite the party if and when it all goes to crap in the midterms ?

    Long shot, but considerably more interesting than the Florida dud, IMO.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,107
    Taz said:

    Mani has joined Nana and the Angles

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04g4x0kkdpo

    Boo!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,519

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    How did they take the pep talk ?
    (I was pretty cold & miserable myself,)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,422
    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    If you live in the US (or if you have access to a VPN and can *pretend* you live in the US), then there's Willow.

    That's $10/month. And you can cancel after the Ashes, having spent a grand total of about $30 (23 quid or so).

    However, you may have to deal with American commentary.

    "Well folks, the pitcher’s opened with a ground throw to that guy with the pads, no idea why he’s wearing a mattress on his legs, but apparently if he doesn’t run, that’s… good?"
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    There were x million workers using the Tube at that time. Cheltenham was a minor blip.
    Sure, but X million from London. Cheltenham brought together people from all around the UK.

    I worked then in an office of 300 or so. The first to fall were all the Cheltenham attendees, and then those that sat next to them etc. I find it hard to imagine that a similar effect wasn't at work elsewhere. So I think I can reasonably conclude that it was a significant factor in the spread.

  • FossFoss Posts: 2,107
    I don't really understand why these sports orgs don't run their own streaming services.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597

    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.

    Goes to highest bidder. Even if that’s Matt Hancock's Pub Landlord.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    Is there a way to get Ashes coverage and not have to sign up for endless ghastly crap beyond what you want to pay for? (The Ashes)

    I have zero (possibly less) interest in football and I really won't pay for it.

    If you live in the US (or if you have access to a VPN and can *pretend* you live in the US), then there's Willow.

    That's $10/month. And you can cancel after the Ashes, having spent a grand total of about $30 (23 quid or so).

    However, you may have to deal with American commentary.

    "Well folks, the pitcher’s opened with a ground throw to that guy with the pads, no idea why he’s wearing a mattress on his legs, but apparently if he doesn’t run, that’s… good?"
    “Wait. He’s hit it out the park and still not running?”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,071
    Foss said:

    I don't really understand why these sports orgs don't run their own streaming services.

    Cost

    Why buy and build a streaming network when you can just sell your content to the highest bidder?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,447
    Foss said:

    I don't really understand why these sports orgs don't run their own streaming services.

    Better to let a third party take on all of the risk (this can go wrong, though - see French football).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    Nigelb said:

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    How did they take the pep talk ?
    (I was pretty cold & miserable myself,)
    I’m sure they think I’m normal just like them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,422

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
    Well, they might have been seized with inaction. Which might've helped.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192

    Nigelb said:

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    How did they take the pep talk ?
    (I was pretty cold & miserable myself,)
    I’m sure they think I’m normal just like them.
    Ok, come on - who here is one of @MoonRabbit's sheep? I admit I interviewed.
  • SonofContrarianSonofContrarian Posts: 225
    Carnyx said:

    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.

    Enshittification in action.

    "Once upon a time, dearest Best Beloved, there were only four television channels. And every last one of them was free, once one had paid one's licence into the Post Office."
    It's the rentier economy expansion which the corporations love..🤑
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,824

    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.

    Goes to highest bidder. Even if that’s Matt Hancock's Pub Landlord.
    Al Murray
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,444
    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    Bollocks. At the same time as Cheltenham there were 2m people using the tube daily (or whatever the figure was). Arguably Cheltenham was a safe event as it is conducted mainly outside (unless you, were, ahem, ensconced in a tent and only ventured out occasionally to the pre-parade and to see some small part of the actual racing).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    How did they take the pep talk ?
    (I was pretty cold & miserable myself,)
    I’m sure they think I’m normal just like them.
    Ok, come on - who here is one of @MoonRabbit's sheep? I admit I interviewed.
    You mean flossy isn’t actual sheep, but a damned spy?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,444
    I'm not sure if I can bring myself to read the Covid report given one beeb headline is "lockdown could have been avoided".

    And another said the UK did "too little too late", quoting in all likelihood those Grade 1 Arseholes at the BMA et al.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,597
    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    Bollocks. At the same time as Cheltenham there were 2m people using the tube daily (or whatever the figure was). Arguably Cheltenham was a safe event as it is conducted mainly outside (unless you, were, ahem, ensconced in a tent and only ventured out occasionally to the pre-parade and to see some small part of the actual racing).
    You were there at the time. Someone on PB kept accusing you of being a murderer. 😕

    In the end you had a duel with them out in the PB Car Park, and shot them.

    Or am I conflating two different things?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192
    TOPPING said:

    I'm not sure if I can bring myself to read the Covid report given one beeb headline is "lockdown could have been avoided".

    And another said the UK did "too little too late", quoting in all likelihood those Grade 1 Arseholes at the BMA et al.

    You're not @TOPPING for the easy ride. With great capitalisation comes great responsibility.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,237
    FF43 said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    How we forget all those discussions on here about R !

    I don't need an inquiry to tell me Johnson is "toxic and chaotic", but a good three word summary of the man nevertheless.

    On the actual conclusions, I now cut Johnson more slack than I did at the time. Clearly a lot of decision making could have been better, but no-one got this completely right. In the end the UK was middle ranking amongst peers. Some countries did better but some did worse.
    Sky's coverage indicates in the report criticism of Johnson was his optimistic nature but Sir Christopher Wormaid is criticised for lack of 'action' during the pandemic and raised concerns about his leadership as Baroness Hallett comments it was his responsibility to rectify the overenthusiastic impression Hancock had given to no 10 and the cabinet office about the ability of his department to cope with the response

    Professors Whitty and Vallance advice on delaying lockdown 'had no grounding in science'

    The report also critices all the devolved administrations

    My concern is the suggestion 23,000 lives could have been saved if we had lockdowned a week before is pure hindsight and unrealistical in the circumstances to have known that

    Apparently this is costing 200 million pounds and no doubt Johnson will be undermined but it seems Wormaid and Vallance are in government and no doubt question will be raised about their role
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,512
    So is there any mention of international travel in the covid report ?

    Or were all these extra and longer lockdowns to have an exemption for those who wanted a holiday in a covid hotspot ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,824
    TOPPING said:

    I'm not sure if I can bring myself to read the Covid report given one beeb headline is "lockdown could have been avoided".

    And another said the UK did "too little too late", quoting in all likelihood those Grade 1 Arseholes at the BMA et al.

    10 November 2025
    * UK Covid-19 Inquiry: Resilience and preparedness (Module 1) Report
    * https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-covid-19-inquiry-resilience-and-preparedness-module-1-report

    20 November 2025
    * UK Covid-19 Inquiry: Core decision-making and political governance (Modules 2, 2A, 2B, 2C) Report
    * https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-covid-19-inquiry-core-decision-making-and-political-governance-modules-2-2a-2b-2c-report
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,375

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
    Everyone loves the feeling of superiority that hindsight gives us.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,596
    edited 5:41PM

    Carnyx said:

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    Give the yowes a hug from me, they'll need it.

    North Riding seems to be catching it today.
    People make fuss of snow, but even without snow getting soaked and then in cold wind can give sheep hyperthermia. As it is, brought two to shed, as they were so lethargic and weird. That could even be their normal personality though! 😆
    HYpOthermia, I think? HypERthermia is when they get too hot ...

    James Hogg's writing on sheep in a snowstorm is memorable - but perhaps not the reading to recommend to you just now.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,512
    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    Bollocks. At the same time as Cheltenham there were 2m people using the tube daily (or whatever the figure was). Arguably Cheltenham was a safe event as it is conducted mainly outside (unless you, were, ahem, ensconced in a tent and only ventured out occasionally to the pre-parade and to see some small part of the actual racing).
    Cheltenham could only have had a noticeable effect if all those attending would have otherwise stayed all the week in their own homes.

    Given that people who attend Cheltenham are likely to be more outgoing than average that seems most unlikely.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,836
    Carnyx said:

    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.

    Enshittification in action.

    "Once upon a time, dearest Best Beloved, there were only four television channels. And every last one of them was free, once one had paid one's licence into the Post Office."
    I suppose for a younger generation, top sport just is as it is now, commodified, monetised, toomuchitised, given to ludicrous celebrations of things. It was not always.

    My own response to how much football there is, is to watch a great deal less and do something else. Ditto cricket, which in a way has prostituted itself even more than football. Even the Ashes are a shadow of what they were. They are not a pinnacle, because the pinnacle is money.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,193
    edited 5:46PM
    They missed a trick.
    Instead of locking down, everybody infected with Covid should have been made to wear a lanyard. Then we'd have known who to avoid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,976
    TimS said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
    I’m in the (minority, or silent majority?) view that thinks the government probably got it about right overall, in the grander scheme of things. If we ignore the lockdown parties.

    The problems in our approach were largely in a few details:

    - probably being a little slow early on in April 2020, but to me that’s perfectly understandable
    - Allowing some jobsworths in the constabulary to get the idea that fun spreads COVID and do frankly silly things during lockdowns, like apprehending people sitting alone on beaches or going for walks on the moors
    - Getting overly complicated with tiering in autumn 2020, but again I can understand why they tried it
    - Flunking and then panic-buying PPE

    Closing schools was, in hindsight, probably the most damaging mistake. One that most developed countries made. But the fear at the time was so great, it’s not remotely surprising the decision was made. I’d hope if we have another pandemic that largely affects adults that we’ll not do the same thing again.

    I think the phasing of the lifting of restrictions towards the end was pretty well judged. The vaccine rollout was good. Furlough was expensive, but what’s really done in our finances is the (unexpected back in 2020) one-two of Covid spending followed by Ukraine war energy price subsidies.
    There are two small paragraphs on Sweden. Just incredible. Breathtaking.

    Maybe the country's response will be in other modules?

    And one of the paragraphs is used to quote a single study that found that rates of contact reduction were similar using the non-mandatory route than the massive society-wide lockdown approach.

    I despair. How many £millions on this?

  • TazTaz Posts: 22,426
    Wonderful. Wisdom after the event.

    Let’s learn for the future or is that too much to ask.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,444
    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm not sure if I can bring myself to read the Covid report given one beeb headline is "lockdown could have been avoided".

    And another said the UK did "too little too late", quoting in all likelihood those Grade 1 Arseholes at the BMA et al.

    You're not @TOPPING for the easy ride. With great capitalisation comes great responsibility.
    I might read the report so the little people don't have to.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,512
    TimS said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
    I’m in the (minority, or silent majority?) view that thinks the government probably got it about right overall, in the grander scheme of things. If we ignore the lockdown parties.

    The problems in our approach were largely in a few details:

    - probably being a little slow early on in April 2020, but to me that’s perfectly understandable
    - Allowing some jobsworths in the constabulary to get the idea that fun spreads COVID and do frankly silly things during lockdowns, like apprehending people sitting alone on beaches or going for walks on the moors
    - Getting overly complicated with tiering in autumn 2020, but again I can understand why they tried it
    - Flunking and then panic-buying PPE

    Closing schools was, in hindsight, probably the most damaging mistake. One that most developed countries made. But the fear at the time was so great, it’s not remotely surprising the decision was made. I’d hope if we have another pandemic that largely affects adults that we’ll not do the same thing again.

    I think the phasing of the lifting of restrictions towards the end was pretty well judged. The vaccine rollout was good. Furlough was expensive, but what’s really done in our finances is the (unexpected back in 2020) one-two of Covid spending followed by Ukraine war energy price subsidies.
    Other mistakes were:

    Not restricting international travel - this delayed the removal of restrictions in 2021 as the delta variant arrived from India (Foxy predicted this would happen).

    No health and fitness campaign - it was very quickly known that obesity was very detrimental.

    The 'track and trace' was obviously going to be a waste of money and was likely gamed by people who wanted extra paid time off work.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 838
    It's important to remember that locking the population in their houses for 23 hours a day was an absolutely crackers thing for any modern government to be doing. Isn't it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,824

    Omnium said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sheep were feeling cold today, huddling behind stuff and looking miserable. I told them, we will all get used to it as winter goes on.
    We banked up some hay in horseshoe shapes.

    How did they take the pep talk ?
    (I was pretty cold & miserable myself,)
    I’m sure they think I’m normal just like them.
    Ok, come on - who here is one of @MoonRabbit's sheep? I admit I interviewed.
    You mean flossy isn’t actual sheep, but a damned spy?
    Prince Ludwig: Do you remember when you were in Cornwall, at the monastery, there was an old shepherd wizh whom you used to talk?
    Lord Melchett: Good Lord! Timkins?
    Prince Ludwig: Yes! I was one of his sheep!
    Lord Melchett: His sheep? Not...
    Prince Ludwig: Yes!
    Lord Melchett: Flossy?
    Prince Ludwig: Yes!
    Lord Melchett: But didn't we...
    Prince Ludwig: Yes, Lord Melchett! Baaaaaa!

    - Blackadder II, episode "Chains"

    See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fgtrUM6C7g
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,375
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    There were x million workers using the Tube at that time. Cheltenham was a minor blip.
    Sure, but X million from London. Cheltenham brought together people from all around the UK.

    I worked then in an office of 300 or so. The first to fall were all the Cheltenham attendees, and then those that sat next to them etc. I find it hard to imagine that a similar effect wasn't at work elsewhere. So I think I can reasonably conclude that it was a significant factor in the spread.

    The first hit local to me was before restrictions, a colleague hosted a get-together and about 2 or 3 weeks later two of the guests were dead. That was before we read about the choir in USA who had one last rehearsal together before their restrictions came into force, with a very similar outcome. Frightening times.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,509
    Monkeys said:

    It's important to remember that locking the population in their houses for 23 hours a day was an absolutely crackers thing for any modern government to be doing. Isn't it?

    Well, quite.

    Would it have been politically possible to lock down earlier anyway?

    To do such an unprecedented thing required the population as a whole to accept that such a thing was necessary.

    Two weeks earlier and I'm not sure that would have been the case.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,512
    Monkeys said:

    It's important to remember that locking the population in their houses for 23 hours a day was an absolutely crackers thing for any modern government to be doing. Isn't it?

    Which is why it couldn't have been done any earlier.

    Locking down the country, at such great economic and social cost, before there had been a significant number of deaths would have been politically impossible and likely widely flouted.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,285

    So is there any mention of international travel in the covid report ?

    Or were all these extra and longer lockdowns to have an exemption for those who wanted a holiday in a covid hotspot ?

    International travel per se wasn’t inherently risky. Being in a passenger aircraft was.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,444
    edited 5:56PM
    Monkeys said:

    It's important to remember that locking the population in their houses for 23 hours a day was an absolutely crackers thing for any modern government to be doing. Isn't it?

    It is. But at the time plenty (a majority?) of the population and certainly a large majority on PB were all for it.

    Then again as PB skews comfortably off with agreeable houses and often a few acres also, that is hardly a surprise.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,976

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @thetnholler.bsky.social‬

    Trump is now calling for the executions of Democratic veterans who reminded the military of their duty to disobey “ILLEGAL” orders.

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3m633jmalbk2w

    I watched their video last night. It seemed very innocuous to me. However a foaming, rabid Stephen Miller was banging on about their treason on Fox or Newsmax (I can't remember which, they all merge into a vile word soup). Presumably Miller has had a word with Trump.

    I am quite convinced executions of political opponents will happen as the Mad King gets madder, and the power behind the throne, Stephen Miller is already beyond morality.
    I'd be interested for them to state precisely which illegal orders they believe that the military shaped be obliged to follow.
    A couple of examples, at the very least.
    Miller is working on the premise that Trump is a divine right King. Imploring soldiers to follow the Constitution rather than illegal instructions from the Divine Right King, according to Miller, is treason.
    Miller has a Middle East bolt hole. Trump needs to get on and rebuild his.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,444
    AnneJGP said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    There were x million workers using the Tube at that time. Cheltenham was a minor blip.
    Sure, but X million from London. Cheltenham brought together people from all around the UK.

    I worked then in an office of 300 or so. The first to fall were all the Cheltenham attendees, and then those that sat next to them etc. I find it hard to imagine that a similar effect wasn't at work elsewhere. So I think I can reasonably conclude that it was a significant factor in the spread.

    The first hit local to me was before restrictions, a colleague hosted a get-together and about 2 or 3 weeks later two of the guests were dead. That was before we read about the choir in USA who had one last rehearsal together before their restrictions came into force, with a very similar outcome. Frightening times.
    On those stats 25 million Brits would have died.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192
    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm not sure if I can bring myself to read the Covid report given one beeb headline is "lockdown could have been avoided".

    And another said the UK did "too little too late", quoting in all likelihood those Grade 1 Arseholes at the BMA et al.

    You're not @TOPPING for the easy ride. With great capitalisation comes great responsibility.
    I might read the report so the little people don't have to.
    As will I.

    Really and honestly I'm sure that my colleagues attendance at Cheltenham gave me covid. Sure.

    Now what would you prefer - a committee or otherwise? Normally you'd go for the committee wouldn't you, but now... really?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,509
    IanB2 said:

    So is there any mention of international travel in the covid report ?

    Or were all these extra and longer lockdowns to have an exemption for those who wanted a holiday in a covid hotspot ?

    International travel per se wasn’t inherently risky. Being in a passenger aircraft was.
    People behave differently on holiday though.

    The endless 'when can we go on our holibobs' questions on the daily conference drove me mad.

    That's the only thing I'd argue we could have been more restrictive on.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,237

    TimS said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
    I’m in the (minority, or silent majority?) view that thinks the government probably got it about right overall, in the grander scheme of things. If we ignore the lockdown parties.

    The problems in our approach were largely in a few details:

    - probably being a little slow early on in April 2020, but to me that’s perfectly understandable
    - Allowing some jobsworths in the constabulary to get the idea that fun spreads COVID and do frankly silly things during lockdowns, like apprehending people sitting alone on beaches or going for walks on the moors
    - Getting overly complicated with tiering in autumn 2020, but again I can understand why they tried it
    - Flunking and then panic-buying PPE

    Closing schools was, in hindsight, probably the most damaging mistake. One that most developed countries made. But the fear at the time was so great, it’s not remotely surprising the decision was made. I’d hope if we have another pandemic that largely affects adults that we’ll not do the same thing again.

    I think the phasing of the lifting of restrictions towards the end was pretty well judged. The vaccine rollout was good. Furlough was expensive, but what’s really done in our finances is the (unexpected back in 2020) one-two of Covid spending followed by Ukraine war energy price subsidies.
    There are two small paragraphs on Sweden. Just incredible. Breathtaking.

    Maybe the country's response will be in other modules?

    And one of the paragraphs is used to quote a single study that found that rates of contact reduction were similar using the non-mandatory route than the massive society-wide lockdown approach.

    I despair. How many £millions on this?

    200
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,909
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    On sports coverage, I reckon it's one of the many reasons that so many non-affluent folk are totally fed up with the cost of living. If you're a real fan, especially of football, you now have to cough up for Sky, TNT and Amazon to get full coverage; it's not cheap. Presumably Paramount will now be added to the list. It's all pretty parasitical in my view.

    Enshittification in action.

    "Once upon a time, dearest Best Beloved, there were only four television channels. And every last one of them was free, once one had paid one's licence into the Post Office."
    I suppose for a younger generation, top sport just is as it is now, commodified, monetised, toomuchitised, given to ludicrous celebrations of things. It was not always.

    My own response to how much football there is, is to watch a great deal less and do something else. Ditto cricket, which in a way has prostituted itself even more than football. Even the Ashes are a shadow of what they were. They are not a pinnacle, because the pinnacle is money.

    Glad you said that, Kirk.

    We're on the eve of the Ashes and for the first time ever I find myself less than totally thrilled at the prospect. Why is that? It's because the cricket calendar has been so totally buggered up and the game so thoroughly dumbed down that I no longer care much.

    No matter. I have plenty else to do.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,375
    TOPPING said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    There were x million workers using the Tube at that time. Cheltenham was a minor blip.
    Sure, but X million from London. Cheltenham brought together people from all around the UK.

    I worked then in an office of 300 or so. The first to fall were all the Cheltenham attendees, and then those that sat next to them etc. I find it hard to imagine that a similar effect wasn't at work elsewhere. So I think I can reasonably conclude that it was a significant factor in the spread.

    The first hit local to me was before restrictions, a colleague hosted a get-together and about 2 or 3 weeks later two of the guests were dead. That was before we read about the choir in USA who had one last rehearsal together before their restrictions came into force, with a very similar outcome. Frightening times.
    On those stats 25 million Brits would have died.
    That was one of the curious things about it - that under apparently the same conditions one got it badly but another didn't get it at all.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,875

    TimS said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    There's going to be a lot of noise and very little light from the reporting on this, which was utterly predictable.

    At the time nobody thought the vaccine would be available so soon, so the only choice was in how fast people caught it.

    The 20k or so saved by an earlier lockdown would have been caught by a later wave (which would have been bigger as a consequence).


    Of course the last thing anyone is going to point at in all the noise is the massive debt pile - which will cause its own excess deaths for many years to come.

    It was a no-win situation. Does anyone think the current government would have done any better?
    I’m in the (minority, or silent majority?) view that thinks the government probably got it about right overall, in the grander scheme of things. If we ignore the lockdown parties.

    The problems in our approach were largely in a few details:

    - probably being a little slow early on in April 2020, but to me that’s perfectly understandable
    - Allowing some jobsworths in the constabulary to get the idea that fun spreads COVID and do frankly silly things during lockdowns, like apprehending people sitting alone on beaches or going for walks on the moors
    - Getting overly complicated with tiering in autumn 2020, but again I can understand why they tried it
    - Flunking and then panic-buying PPE

    Closing schools was, in hindsight, probably the most damaging mistake. One that most developed countries made. But the fear at the time was so great, it’s not remotely surprising the decision was made. I’d hope if we have another pandemic that largely affects adults that we’ll not do the same thing again.

    I think the phasing of the lifting of restrictions towards the end was pretty well judged. The vaccine rollout was good. Furlough was expensive, but what’s really done in our finances is the (unexpected back in 2020) one-two of Covid spending followed by Ukraine war energy price subsidies.
    Other mistakes were:

    Not restricting international travel - this delayed the removal of restrictions in 2021 as the delta variant arrived from India (Foxy predicted this would happen).

    No health and fitness campaign - it was very quickly known that obesity was very detrimental.

    The 'track and trace' was obviously going to be a waste of money and was likely gamed by people who wanted extra paid time off work.
    My big one is not spotting the Kentish variant during the lockdown in November 2020 - we blew the vaccine advantage we had by unlocking with little regard to what was emerging, and ended up needed the early vaccines to prevent an absolute catastrophe.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,192
    AnneJGP said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I'll wait to read the detail from covid but have to say I'm going to take a hell of a lot of convincing that locking down a week or two earlier would have reduced the overall deaths by 10ks they are claiming. Surely the deaths are simply postponed at that stage as there was no vaccine?

    The only thing I'm 100% sure that they got wrong was allowing Cheltenham to go ahead. That was the UK super-spreader, and certainly how I got covid the first time - from colleagues that went there.
    There were x million workers using the Tube at that time. Cheltenham was a minor blip.
    Sure, but X million from London. Cheltenham brought together people from all around the UK.

    I worked then in an office of 300 or so. The first to fall were all the Cheltenham attendees, and then those that sat next to them etc. I find it hard to imagine that a similar effect wasn't at work elsewhere. So I think I can reasonably conclude that it was a significant factor in the spread.

    The first hit local to me was before restrictions, a colleague hosted a get-together and about 2 or 3 weeks later two of the guests were dead. That was before we read about the choir in USA who had one last rehearsal together before their restrictions came into force, with a very similar outcome. Frightening times.
    We did all see it spread though. And it was very clear that it did spread by close contact.
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