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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,009
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham needs a Greater Manchester seat to be credible. Its that simple.

    It's difficult to think of a Labour seat in England that wouldn't be won by either the Greens or Ref in a by-election.
    Birmingham Hodge Hill and Bradford West could go Your Party.

    Seats like Kensington and Bayswater, Chelsea and Fulham, Hendon, Finchley and Golders Green and Chipping Barnet could even go Tory
    Steady now
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    kinabalu said:

    I had thought that Clive Lewis was a bit further to the left than Andy Burnham.

    If SKS goes the fav to replace him is Streeting and I think CL's keenness to get Burnham back is driven by his antipathy to that prospect.
    I suspect unless SKS's poll ratings improve he will stand down before the next GE as Labour leader and effectively near anoint Streeting as his heir like Hollande did Macron pre 2017.

    The NEC would therefore likely block Burnham getting on the longlist of Labour potential candidates for a winnable by election for Labour
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,009
    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    Gonna take more than the Guardian for this to cut through.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    edited November 19
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham needs a Greater Manchester seat to be credible. Its that simple.

    It's difficult to think of a Labour seat in England that wouldn't be won by either the Greens or Ref in a by-election.
    Birmingham Hodge Hill and Bradford West could go Your Party.

    Seats like Kensington and Bayswater, Chelsea and Fulham, Hendon, Finchley and Golders Green and Chipping Barnet could even go Tory
    Steady now
    After Reeves' budget the rich and very high earners will be going back to the Tories certainly in seats now Labour held and the Jewish vote hates Starmer after he recognised Palestine before he freed all the hostages. Most of the rich and highest earners think Farage is a bit of a nationalist oik though and the Jewish vote won't go Reform either as it is too nationalist right for them
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    'Younger Australian teenagers on Instagram, Facebook and Threads are being told their accounts will be shut down ahead of the country's social media ban for under-16s.

    Meta, which owns the three brands, said it had begun notifying users it believes to be between 13 and 15 years old by text, email and in-app messages that their accounts would start being deactivated from 4 December.

    The ban in Australia comes into force on 10 December. It affects a number of platforms which also include TikTok, YouTube, X and Reddit.

    Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said the "world-leading" ban was aimed at "letting kids be kids". Meta and other firms oppose the measure but said they would comply.'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz919xyx7weo
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    None of the above are contenders now though really and nor is Burnham unless he returns as an MP. The likeliest successors to Starmer are presently Streeting, Cooper or Ed Miliband
  • Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Your last sentence nails it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham needs a Greater Manchester seat to be credible. Its that simple.

    It's difficult to think of a Labour seat in England that wouldn't be won by either the Greens or Ref in a by-election.
    Birmingham Hodge Hill and Bradford West could go Your Party.

    Seats like Kensington and Bayswater, Chelsea and Fulham, Hendon, Finchley and Golders Green and Chipping Barnet could even go Tory
    Assuming Your Party ever become An Actual Party.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,442

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Was it a mistake for Starmer to wave a piece of paper after his meeting with Trump?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,361
    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    Why is all this coming out now?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,402
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Lucy Powell, Lisa Nandy or Louise Haigh according to The Times.

    If they’re the answer heaven help us.

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1991075326546284659?s=61
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,261

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Depends what appeasement was for, really. It bought us a bit of time, and also made it clear that anything further meant war. I think opinion is divided on whether Chamberlain believed he had secured peace.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,261

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    Why is all this coming out now?
    It has come out several times in the past, but nobody has cared.


    I don’t care now. It changes my perception of the man not one iota.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,970

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    Why is all this coming out now?
    It has come out several times in the past, but nobody has cared.


    Rule of Seven (possibly more now). A message has to be repeated for it to become mainstream. Brains have only so much bandwidth to deal with all the messaging that goes on. Farage was able to hide away in Brussels as no-one really paid much attention. Now he wants to be mainstream he has to raise his profile and take the hits.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_(marketing)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham needs a Greater Manchester seat to be credible. Its that simple.

    It's difficult to think of a Labour seat in England that wouldn't be won by either the Greens or Ref in a by-election.
    Birmingham Hodge Hill and Bradford West could go Your Party.

    Seats like Kensington and Bayswater, Chelsea and Fulham, Hendon, Finchley and Golders Green and Chipping Barnet could even go Tory
    Steady now
    After Reeves' budget the rich and very high earners will be going back to the Tories certainly in seats now Labour held and the Jewish vote hates Starmer after he recognised Palestine before he freed all the hostages. Most of the rich and highest earners think Farage is a bit of a nationalist oik though and the Jewish vote won't go Reform either as it is too nationalist right for them
    This time next week you may be right. Until then, don’t believe Telegraph rumours. How many of the seats you have listed have more than 20% of their electorate identifying as Jewish?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,361

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
    Looks to me like they need to rethink the criteria for appointing PPCs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004
    edited November 19
    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He needs to say that as a teenager he did and said some stupid things, and that he does not believe any of this now.

  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,361

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    Why is all this coming out now?
    It has come out several times in the past, but nobody has cared.


    Then why think people will care now, I wonder. If at first you don't succeed ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,042

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Was it a mistake for Starmer to wave a piece of paper after his meeting with Trump?
    He didn't wave it. He picked it up and handed it back.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,497
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've been thinking about northern HS2, and its cancellation.

    Given the very short distances between the north's major cities, might the new hybrid electrical aviation designs present something of an alternative ?

    For example, for around £2bn, you could buy a 500 strong fleet of these things, once they come into service:
    https://www.electra.aero/news/four-ways-electras-ultra-short-aircraft-will-transform-travel-via-direct-aviation

    9 passengers with luggage, a range of 300 miles plus, and speed of 175mph (say 45 mins, Leeds- Birmingham) could add up to a very large number of passengers carried.
    And they require runways of only around 300ft - so for another couple of billion, you could build dozens of STOL airports, close to city centres.

    Hmmmmm ....

    That's the sort of thing that they used to say about helicopters and Fairey Rotodynes and Battersea helicopter airport, and what was going to happen, in the pages of old Eagle comics and annuals when I were a bairn.

    And - in terms of mass air transit - that's also what they used to say about Concorde. That it would replace mobile sardine tins. Instead it got replaced by bigger mobile sardine tins for 99% of the customers, leaving it to a luxury superclass. Which soulds a bit more likely to happen to the leccy helicopters and STOLs.

    And you still have the transit from the airport to your destination in the city - only now unlike Battersea you are out somewhere like Penge or Isle of Grain or worse. You, in other words, need to take the train ... which is ****ed by decades of underspending on the north. Or an expensive taxi.

    And hangars and maintenance facilities and staffing ... I can't [edit] quite see it as anything much more than for the Mr Sunaks of this world.

    But it will be interesting. Would make good sense as an Islander or Trislander or Twotter or Skyvan repl;acement in Scotland - the Highlands and Western and Norsthern Islands, Aberdeen to Leeds, and so on.
    The key is the size of the landing/takeoff strip.
    It can manage as little as 150ft, and 300ft allows a larger load and faster takeoff speed (for windier conditions).

    A large warehouse rooftop would provide a runway near the city centre.

    A conventional airport (or even a Docklands) costs billions; a strip for these would be in the millions.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,561
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    1 Why does it matter if someone has been in Parliament, Labour need a leader, not a legislator
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    Why is all this coming out now?
    It has come out several times in the past, but nobody has cared.


    I don’t care now. It changes my perception of the man not one iota.
    Are you still a supporter or still an enemy?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,497
    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    A "security guarantee" from much more trustworthy presidents proved worthless, as we know.
    Which is why we are where we are.

    One from Trump would be a sick joke.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,963
    The Democrats currently have a 14-point lead against the Republicans among registered voters nationally on the 2026 generic congressional ballot question.

    https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/a-look-to-the-2026-midterms-november-2025/



    George Conway ⚖️🇺🇸
    @gtconway3d
    ·
    4h
    +14 is completely and utterly breathtaking

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1991147081923227988
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
    Looks to me like they need to rethink the criteria for appointing PPCs.
    You mean, Politics graduate, SPAD, constituency organiser isn’t the ideal career path? I’m shocked, I tell you!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,831
    edited November 19
    Worth remembering Lucy Powell only beat Bridget Phillipson 54-46.

    That doesn't suggest to me that she would beat Starmer, assuming Starmer did indeed stand.

    Bizarrely if a non-credible candidate like Powell stands and Starmer wins easily that will actually strengthen his position and make it more likely he goes all the way to the next GE.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,963
    liver Carroll
    @olliecarroll
    My understanding of hashed US-Russian peace plan. As ugly as you’d expect:
    — Ukr army 2.5 x reduction. Only Ukr army. Note: not 2x as speculated
    — No foreign troops in Ukraine
    — No foreign diplomatic planes in Ukraine
    — Ban on long range weapons that can reach ST P, Mos


    Oliver Carroll
    @olliecarroll
    ·
    1h
    — Ceding territory

    US side, I’m told, passed information to Ukrainians insisting Zelensky agree to the framework.

    This all feels very opportunistic by US side. Ukraine has been critically weakened by its corruptioneers.

    https://x.com/olliecarroll/status/1991196935256953081
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,446
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He needs to say that as a teenager he did and said some stupid things, and that he does not believe any of this now.

    I don't think being a child or even an adult racist is going to put off his supporters. It might even show he's not just a Johnny Come Lately.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004
    On topic, It looks certain that we will have a new Labour leader by the next autumn conference. It is less obvious who that will be.

    I cannot see a way for Burnham. A stitched up byelection would be a farce and likely for him to lose, even if he is allowed to stand wherever it is. He should stick to the Mayoralty.

    Streeting is obviously going for it, but there is an equally obvious "stop Streeting" faction and that what this remark by Lewis is all about.

    My hunch is the second coming of Ms Rayner.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,444
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He needs to say that as a teenager he did and said some stupid things, and that he does not believe any of this now.

    Actually, I think he's better off keeping his gob shut whether any of this is true or not. Unless the TV press go for him on it, he doesn't need to draw attention to the story.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,442
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Was it a mistake for Starmer to wave a piece of paper after his meeting with Trump?
    He didn't wave it. He picked it up and handed it back.
    He did give it a little wave before handing it back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V2K_s3mxDc
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
    Looks to me like they need to rethink the criteria for appointing PPCs.
    You mean, Politics graduate, SPAD, constituency organiser isn’t the ideal career path? I’m shocked, I tell you!
    As a matter of interest who on the Labour front bench came that route? No one springs to mind.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,405
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Imperial aggression works.

    Went out of vogue for a few decades, but it is back and here to stay.
    Imperial aggression has a never had a particularly high success rate, though. Aggressors who attempt to expand territory, now sure, they work from time-to-time, but they lose far more often than then win.

    And when they do win, the costs of 'winning' are often ruinous.

    The trick to being really rich is not to get in wars at all. See Switzerland.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've been thinking about northern HS2, and its cancellation.

    Given the very short distances between the north's major cities, might the new hybrid electrical aviation designs present something of an alternative ?

    For example, for around £2bn, you could buy a 500 strong fleet of these things, once they come into service:
    https://www.electra.aero/news/four-ways-electras-ultra-short-aircraft-will-transform-travel-via-direct-aviation

    9 passengers with luggage, a range of 300 miles plus, and speed of 175mph (say 45 mins, Leeds- Birmingham) could add up to a very large number of passengers carried.
    And they require runways of only around 300ft - so for another couple of billion, you could build dozens of STOL airports, close to city centres.

    Hmmmmm ....

    That's the sort of thing that they used to say about helicopters and Fairey Rotodynes and Battersea helicopter airport, and what was going to happen, in the pages of old Eagle comics and annuals when I were a bairn.

    And - in terms of mass air transit - that's also what they used to say about Concorde. That it would replace mobile sardine tins. Instead it got replaced by bigger mobile sardine tins for 99% of the customers, leaving it to a luxury superclass. Which soulds a bit more likely to happen to the leccy helicopters and STOLs.

    And you still have the transit from the airport to your destination in the city - only now unlike Battersea you are out somewhere like Penge or Isle of Grain or worse. You, in other words, need to take the train ... which is ****ed by decades of underspending on the north. Or an expensive taxi.

    And hangars and maintenance facilities and staffing ... I can't [edit] quite see it as anything much more than for the Mr Sunaks of this world.

    But it will be interesting. Would make good sense as an Islander or Trislander or Twotter or Skyvan repl;acement in Scotland - the Highlands and Western and Norsthern Islands, Aberdeen to Leeds, and so on.
    The key is the size of the landing/takeoff strip.
    It can manage as little as 150ft, and 300ft allows a larger load and faster takeoff speed (for windier conditions).

    A large warehouse rooftop would provide a runway near the city centre.

    A conventional airport (or even a Docklands) costs billions; a strip for these would be in the millions.
    A large former cruise ship moored in the Thames with superstructure removed could provide both a STOL runway and accommodation for asylum seekers. Additional ships moored in e.g. Boston, Skegness, Middlesbrough, Runcorn and Barrow would provide access to currently poorly served areas and lots more asylum accommodation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,497

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Depends what appeasement was for, really. It bought us a bit of time, and also made it clear that anything further meant war. I think opinion is divided on whether Chamberlain believed he had secured peace.
    Chamberlain no doubt made mistakes, but he was essentially a convenient scapegoat.
    There are records from before the war of his being rebuked by his cabinet for wanting to spend too much on re-armament, for example.

    Michael Foot's "The Guilty Men", for example, which did quite a lot to trash his reputation, was largely propaganda (Foot himself, for example, having attacked Baldwin in 1935 for advocating re-armament).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilty_Men
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,641
    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
  • This will be perfect for future Farage riots.

    Police to use DNA tagging spray at Sheffield derby to identify people involved in 'disorder'

    A DNA tagging spray will be used for the first time at this weekend's Sheffield derby to identify people involved in disorder.

    South Yorkshire Police said it will be used by officers on the ground when Sheffield Wednesday play Sheffield United in the Championship.

    The spray is a forensic tool designed to mark individuals with a uniquely coded invisible solution that sticks to skin, clothing and personal items.

    It is detectable under UV light and is traceable for weeks - this allows officers to link offenders to specific incidents and locations.

    South Yorkshire Police said it is aware a "minority of people may look to disrupt celebrations."


    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2025-11-19/police-to-use-dna-tagging-spray-for-the-first-time-at-sheffield-derby
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,497

    liver Carroll
    @olliecarroll
    My understanding of hashed US-Russian peace plan. As ugly as you’d expect:
    — Ukr army 2.5 x reduction. Only Ukr army. Note: not 2x as speculated
    — No foreign troops in Ukraine
    — No foreign diplomatic planes in Ukraine
    — Ban on long range weapons that can reach ST P, Mos

    Oliver Carroll
    @olliecarroll
    ·
    1h
    — Ceding territory

    US side, I’m told, passed information to Ukrainians insisting Zelensky agree to the framework.

    This all feels very opportunistic by US side. Ukraine has been critically weakened by its corruptioneers.

    https://x.com/olliecarroll/status/1991196935256953081

    That would essentially make Ukraine a satellite of Russia.
    It is absurd, and would be disastrous for Europe's future security.

    A US "security guarantee" in those circumstances would be utterly worthless, whoever is in office in the future.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067

    liver Carroll
    @olliecarroll
    My understanding of hashed US-Russian peace plan. As ugly as you’d expect:
    — Ukr army 2.5 x reduction. Only Ukr army. Note: not 2x as speculated
    — No foreign troops in Ukraine
    — No foreign diplomatic planes in Ukraine
    — Ban on long range weapons that can reach ST P, Mos


    Oliver Carroll
    @olliecarroll
    ·
    1h
    — Ceding territory

    US side, I’m told, passed information to Ukrainians insisting Zelensky agree to the framework.

    This all feels very opportunistic by US side. Ukraine has been critically weakened by its corruptioneers.

    https://x.com/olliecarroll/status/1991196935256953081

    I am looking forward to the day when Ukrainian drones are able to reach Washington and Mar a Lago.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,641
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He needs to say that as a teenager he did and said some stupid things, and that he does not believe any of this now.

    I'm sure he will.

    I hold no candle for Farage but he's always liked to provoke, and I can imagine he was worse when he was young.

    On the words: spastic, poof, mong, gay, lepper, and retard.. these were all perfectly normal words used (by those of any political persuasion) in the school playground in the 1980s.
  • Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He needs to say that as a teenager he did and said some stupid things, and that he does not believe any of this now.

    One one hand, I totally agree. On the other, asking Adult Nige to say that Teenage Nige did stupid things that Adult Nige doesn't agree with is cruel and unusual punishment.

    Some apologies stick in the throat much more than others.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've been thinking about northern HS2, and its cancellation.

    Given the very short distances between the north's major cities, might the new hybrid electrical aviation designs present something of an alternative ?

    For example, for around £2bn, you could buy a 500 strong fleet of these things, once they come into service:
    https://www.electra.aero/news/four-ways-electras-ultra-short-aircraft-will-transform-travel-via-direct-aviation

    9 passengers with luggage, a range of 300 miles plus, and speed of 175mph (say 45 mins, Leeds- Birmingham) could add up to a very large number of passengers carried.
    And they require runways of only around 300ft - so for another couple of billion, you could build dozens of STOL airports, close to city centres.

    Hmmmmm ....

    That's the sort of thing that they used to say about helicopters and Fairey Rotodynes and Battersea helicopter airport, and what was going to happen, in the pages of old Eagle comics and annuals when I were a bairn.

    And - in terms of mass air transit - that's also what they used to say about Concorde. That it would replace mobile sardine tins. Instead it got replaced by bigger mobile sardine tins for 99% of the customers, leaving it to a luxury superclass. Which soulds a bit more likely to happen to the leccy helicopters and STOLs.

    And you still have the transit from the airport to your destination in the city - only now unlike Battersea you are out somewhere like Penge or Isle of Grain or worse. You, in other words, need to take the train ... which is ****ed by decades of underspending on the north. Or an expensive taxi.

    And hangars and maintenance facilities and staffing ... I can't [edit] quite see it as anything much more than for the Mr Sunaks of this world.

    But it will be interesting. Would make good sense as an Islander or Trislander or Twotter or Skyvan repl;acement in Scotland - the Highlands and Western and Norsthern Islands, Aberdeen to Leeds, and so on.
    The key is the size of the landing/takeoff strip.
    It can manage as little as 150ft, and 300ft allows a larger load and faster takeoff speed (for windier conditions).

    A large warehouse rooftop would provide a runway near the city centre.

    A conventional airport (or even a Docklands) costs billions; a strip for these would be in the millions.
    A large former cruise ship moored in the Thames with superstructure removed could provide both a STOL runway and accommodation for asylum seekers. Additional ships moored in e.g. Boston, Skegness, Middlesbrough, Runcorn and Barrow would provide access to currently poorly served areas and lots more asylum accommodation.
    Prison Hulks combined with Transportation? Victorian Values indeed!

    We could call the first one SS Magwitch.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    Foxy said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
    Looks to me like they need to rethink the criteria for appointing PPCs.
    You mean, Politics graduate, SPAD, constituency organiser isn’t the ideal career path? I’m shocked, I tell you!
    As a matter of interest who on the Labour front bench came that route? No one springs to mind.
    That is the route for PPCs. They don’t have the skills or ability to progress to the front bench, which is why there are so few contenders for front bench posts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Yes, but were these comedy?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,969
    edited November 19
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He needs to say that as a teenager he did and said some stupid things, and that he does not believe any of this now.

    The problem is he's still doing a watered down version of those things now...

    Which means that apology isn't going to work well.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,641
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Yes, but were these comedy?
    I suspect so. I don't think Farage is a Nazi.

    It's a Guardian hatchet job.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Did you go to school in Hampshire?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,497

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've been thinking about northern HS2, and its cancellation.

    Given the very short distances between the north's major cities, might the new hybrid electrical aviation designs present something of an alternative ?

    For example, for around £2bn, you could buy a 500 strong fleet of these things, once they come into service:
    https://www.electra.aero/news/four-ways-electras-ultra-short-aircraft-will-transform-travel-via-direct-aviation

    9 passengers with luggage, a range of 300 miles plus, and speed of 175mph (say 45 mins, Leeds- Birmingham) could add up to a very large number of passengers carried.
    And they require runways of only around 300ft - so for another couple of billion, you could build dozens of STOL airports, close to city centres.

    Hmmmmm ....

    That's the sort of thing that they used to say about helicopters and Fairey Rotodynes and Battersea helicopter airport, and what was going to happen, in the pages of old Eagle comics and annuals when I were a bairn.

    And - in terms of mass air transit - that's also what they used to say about Concorde. That it would replace mobile sardine tins. Instead it got replaced by bigger mobile sardine tins for 99% of the customers, leaving it to a luxury superclass. Which soulds a bit more likely to happen to the leccy helicopters and STOLs.

    And you still have the transit from the airport to your destination in the city - only now unlike Battersea you are out somewhere like Penge or Isle of Grain or worse. You, in other words, need to take the train ... which is ****ed by decades of underspending on the north. Or an expensive taxi.

    And hangars and maintenance facilities and staffing ... I can't [edit] quite see it as anything much more than for the Mr Sunaks of this world.

    But it will be interesting. Would make good sense as an Islander or Trislander or Twotter or Skyvan repl;acement in Scotland - the Highlands and Western and Norsthern Islands, Aberdeen to Leeds, and so on.
    The key is the size of the landing/takeoff strip.
    It can manage as little as 150ft, and 300ft allows a larger load and faster takeoff speed (for windier conditions).

    A large warehouse rooftop would provide a runway near the city centre.

    A conventional airport (or even a Docklands) costs billions; a strip for these would be in the millions.
    A large former cruise ship moored in the Thames with superstructure removed could provide both a STOL runway and accommodation for asylum seekers. Additional ships moored in e.g. Boston, Skegness, Middlesbrough, Runcorn and Barrow would provide access to currently poorly served areas and lots more asylum accommodation.
    The big market for this would probably be in the north.

    London has great transport infrastructure already, and real estate there is hugely expensive,

    The Hull; Leeds; Bradford; Manchester; Liverpool; Sheffield set of cities has, in comparison, utterly crap transport provision (Manchester to Sheffield, for example, is a joke.) And real estate is massively cheaper.

    So more potential demand, and the cost of the supporting infrastructure would be far less.

    But yes, there's no real reason it couldn't work nationwide.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,506
    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Lucy Powell, Lisa Nandy or Louise Haigh according to The Times.

    If they’re the answer heaven help us.

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1991075326546284659?s=61
    Angela is a close second favourite on Betfair.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    I've been thinking about northern HS2, and its cancellation.

    Given the very short distances between the north's major cities, might the new hybrid electrical aviation designs present something of an alternative ?

    For example, for around £2bn, you could buy a 500 strong fleet of these things, once they come into service:
    https://www.electra.aero/news/four-ways-electras-ultra-short-aircraft-will-transform-travel-via-direct-aviation

    9 passengers with luggage, a range of 300 miles plus, and speed of 175mph (say 45 mins, Leeds- Birmingham) could add up to a very large number of passengers carried.
    And they require runways of only around 300ft - so for another couple of billion, you could build dozens of STOL airports, close to city centres.

    Hmmmmm ....

    That's the sort of thing that they used to say about helicopters and Fairey Rotodynes and Battersea helicopter airport, and what was going to happen, in the pages of old Eagle comics and annuals when I were a bairn.

    And - in terms of mass air transit - that's also what they used to say about Concorde. That it would replace mobile sardine tins. Instead it got replaced by bigger mobile sardine tins for 99% of the customers, leaving it to a luxury superclass. Which soulds a bit more likely to happen to the leccy helicopters and STOLs.

    And you still have the transit from the airport to your destination in the city - only now unlike Battersea you are out somewhere like Penge or Isle of Grain or worse. You, in other words, need to take the train ... which is ****ed by decades of underspending on the north. Or an expensive taxi.

    And hangars and maintenance facilities and staffing ... I can't [edit] quite see it as anything much more than for the Mr Sunaks of this world.

    But it will be interesting. Would make good sense as an Islander or Trislander or Twotter or Skyvan repl;acement in Scotland - the Highlands and Western and Norsthern Islands, Aberdeen to Leeds, and so on.
    The key is the size of the landing/takeoff strip.
    It can manage as little as 150ft, and 300ft allows a larger load and faster takeoff speed (for windier conditions).

    A large warehouse rooftop would provide a runway near the city centre.

    A conventional airport (or even a Docklands) costs billions; a strip for these would be in the millions.
    A large former cruise ship moored in the Thames with superstructure removed could provide both a STOL runway and accommodation for asylum seekers. Additional ships moored in e.g. Boston, Skegness, Middlesbrough, Runcorn and Barrow would provide access to currently poorly served areas and lots more asylum accommodation.
    Prison Hulks combined with Transportation? Victorian Values indeed!

    We could call the first one SS Magwitch.
    Transportation to Australia or Skegness? Hmm, let me see.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,402
    World Cup 2026, the World Cup of the minnow

    ‘ - Curacao
    - Haiti
    - Cape Verde
    - Scotland

    Incredible to see the smaller nations get their chance on the big stage at the World Cup!’

    https://x.com/coral/status/1991135101682335794?s=61
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,067
    Taz said:

    World Cup 2026, the World Cup of the minnow

    ‘ - Curacao
    - Haiti
    - Cape Verde
    - Scotland

    Incredible to see the smaller nations get their chance on the big stage at the World Cup!’

    https://x.com/coral/status/1991135101682335794?s=61

    We probably wouldn’t qualify from that group!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,361

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
    Looks to me like they need to rethink the criteria for appointing PPCs.
    You mean, Politics graduate, SPAD, constituency organiser isn’t the ideal career path? I’m shocked, I tell you!
    Competence and charisma tend to be more personality things. Perhaps the career path isn't the only thing they should be looking g at.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004
    Taz said:

    World Cup 2026, the World Cup of the minnow

    ‘ - Curacao
    - Haiti
    - Cape Verde
    - Scotland

    Incredible to see the smaller nations get their chance on the big stage at the World Cup!’

    https://x.com/coral/status/1991135101682335794?s=61

    Cape Verde have impressed in the African Cup of Nations. They are the Iceland of the tropics, aided by a substantial diaspora population in Portugal.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Yes, but were these comedy?
    I suspect so. I don't think Farage is a Nazi.

    It's a Guardian hatchet job.
    Its the pro-Putin stuff that him and his allies come out with that is more worrying, and also far more recent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,240
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Yet they're all an upgrade on Starmer.
  • Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Yes, Labour are panicking, and they are justified in doing so. The game of pass the parcel stopped with them winning the prize, just before it turned out that the prize was a long-unexploded bomb just about to go off. And none of them have the speed of reaction to cope. And the public have noticed.

    They are nitwits, or at least acting like nitwits, due to the panic.

    The analogue is John Major between 1993 and 1997. Everyone (including JM himself, I suspect) would have been happy to see him go, except for the knotty problem of needing to find a replacement. Since there wasn't a broadly-tolerable one, he stayed on.

    Labour's least bad hope- and short of a coup, the country's least bad hope- is that someone at the lower end of the top table shines over the next couple of years and is ready to take over in late 2027/early 2028. Accept that unpleasant truth, and everything else falls into place.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,000
    The Trump case against James Comey is falling apart in spectacular form: https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/james-comey-doj-case-hearing-11-19-25

    It turns out that the grand jury didn't even see the indictment!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588

    Foxy said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Unfortunately for Labour, they need a leader with competence and charisma, and they don’t have any.
    Looks to me like they need to rethink the criteria for appointing PPCs.
    You mean, Politics graduate, SPAD, constituency organiser isn’t the ideal career path? I’m shocked, I tell you!
    As a matter of interest who on the Labour front bench came that route? No one springs to mind.
    That is the route for PPCs. They don’t have the skills or ability to progress to the front bench, which is why there are so few contenders for front bench posts.
    Main backgrounds of Labour MPs are councillor, political advisor, lobbyist or researcher for an MP or SPAD, working in policy or for a think tank, journalism, NHS, police, academic, charity worker or lawyer
    https://www.brevia.co.uk/news/politics/who-are-the-new-labour-mps/#:~:text=343 new MPs were elected last month,,of Axholme), expert in the water industry
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,641

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Did you go to school in Hampshire?
    No.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,042

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Was it a mistake for Starmer to wave a piece of paper after his meeting with Trump?
    He didn't wave it. He picked it up and handed it back.
    He did give it a little wave before handing it back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V2K_s3mxDc
    No desire to see that again, William, thanks very much. But I do know who is the better of those two men.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,641
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Yes, but were these comedy?
    I suspect so. I don't think Farage is a Nazi.

    It's a Guardian hatchet job.
    Its the pro-Putin stuff that him and his allies come out with that is more worrying, and also far more recent.
    That stuff is a cause of concern and, also, why I won't vote for him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,826

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    A guarantee from Trump is worth less than nothing.
    I hope hose flamingos are breeding well, and have their navigation sorted.

    On the projected numbers claimed, there should be 30-50 a week being added.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,812
    It appears that the dissent in MAGA world is growing. Laura Loomer joining MTG in questioning “are we the baddies” and saying that the GOP has a Nazi problem.

    I do worry that Trump is trying to ram through this twisted peace deal in Ukraine to distract from Epstein revelations.

    I’ve also heard that mediums the world over are getting fed up with Epstein contacting them from the other side to protest he wasn’t friends with Trump in order to avoid further damage to his reputation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,042

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Yes, but were these comedy?
    I suspect so. I don't think Farage is a Nazi.

    It's a Guardian hatchet job.
    Investigative journalism.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,042
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    Yes, but were these comedy?
    I can't see anybody laughing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    Foxy said:

    On topic, It looks certain that we will have a new Labour leader by the next autumn conference. It is less obvious who that will be.

    I cannot see a way for Burnham. A stitched up byelection would be a farce and likely for him to lose, even if he is allowed to stand wherever it is. He should stick to the Mayoralty.

    Streeting is obviously going for it, but there is an equally obvious "stop Streeting" faction and that what this remark by Lewis is all about.

    My hunch is the second coming of Ms Rayner.

    Or Cooper
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Burnham needs a Greater Manchester seat to be credible. Its that simple.

    It's difficult to think of a Labour seat in England that wouldn't be won by either the Greens or Ref in a by-election.
    Birmingham Hodge Hill and Bradford West could go Your Party.

    Seats like Kensington and Bayswater, Chelsea and Fulham, Hendon, Finchley and Golders Green and Chipping Barnet could even go Tory
    Steady now
    After Reeves' budget the rich and very high earners will be going back to the Tories certainly in seats now Labour held and the Jewish vote hates Starmer after he recognised Palestine before he freed all the hostages. Most of the rich and highest earners think Farage is a bit of a nationalist oik though and the Jewish vote won't go Reform either as it is too nationalist right for them
    This time next week you may be right. Until then, don’t believe Telegraph rumours. How many of the seats you have listed have more than 20% of their electorate identifying as Jewish?
    Half
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,042

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    We only had one Nazi fan in my year. Also the best at maths and won a scholarship to Cambridge.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic, It looks certain that we will have a new Labour leader by the next autumn conference. It is less obvious who that will be.

    I cannot see a way for Burnham. A stitched up byelection would be a farce and likely for him to lose, even if he is allowed to stand wherever it is. He should stick to the Mayoralty.

    Streeting is obviously going for it, but there is an equally obvious "stop Streeting" faction and that what this remark by Lewis is all about.

    My hunch is the second coming of Ms Rayner.

    Or Cooper
    no, she has no stomach for battle.

    While Rayner is the Boudicca of the North (though of course after some early victories that didn't end well).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,647
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Imperial aggression works.

    Went out of vogue for a few decades, but it is back and here to stay.
    Imperial aggression has a never had a particularly high success rate, though. Aggressors who attempt to expand territory, now sure, they work from time-to-time, but they lose far more often than then win.

    And when they do win, the costs of 'winning' are often ruinous.

    The trick to being really rich is not to get in wars at all. See Switzerland.
    Sure, but it is working now in Ukraine, albeit at much higher cost and for less gain than Russia initially hoped for.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,580
    Evening all :)

    Trying to bring together a couple of current themes, I wonder what odds you would have had 24 hours ago for the following contingencies:

    Andy Burnham winning a by-election in Norwich South
    Norwich City skipper Kenny McLean scoring a goal from behind his own halfway line.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588

    The Democrats currently have a 14-point lead against the Republicans among registered voters nationally on the 2026 generic congressional ballot question.

    https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/a-look-to-the-2026-midterms-november-2025/



    George Conway ⚖️🇺🇸
    @gtconway3d
    ·
    4h
    +14 is completely and utterly breathtaking

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1991147081923227988

    Not quite as big as the 17% Democrat midterms win in 1974 after Watergate but close
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,004
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "He used to say things like “Hitler was right”’: Farage faces more allegations of racist behaviour at school"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/19/nigel-farage-allegations-racist-behaviour-school

    He was a shock jock at school nearly 40 years ago.

    So what?

    Comedy Nazi salutes and stuff like this was par for the course when I was at school.
    We only had one Nazi fan in my year. Also the best at maths and won a scholarship to Cambridge.
    We had one in my year, who marched with the National Front when they came to town.

    while there was a fair amount of racist humour at my school, actual racist behaviour was beyond the pale.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,049
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    People in the intelligence community call Witkoff Dim Philby - both for his level of intelligence and because he’s working for the Russians.

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3m5yxqrt7422m
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,908

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Depends what appeasement was for, really. It bought us a bit of time, and also made it clear that anything further meant war. I think opinion is divided on whether Chamberlain believed he had secured peace.
    The evidence is mixed but the steps he took subsequently in respect of rearmament shows that he was preparing for war and in an unprecedented way. Now that might simply have been Si vis pacem, para bellum but I for one believe he knew it would come to it in the end.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,282

    This will be perfect for future Farage riots.

    Police to use DNA tagging spray at Sheffield derby to identify people involved in 'disorder'

    A DNA tagging spray will be used for the first time at this weekend's Sheffield derby to identify people involved in disorder.

    South Yorkshire Police said it will be used by officers on the ground when Sheffield Wednesday play Sheffield United in the Championship.

    The spray is a forensic tool designed to mark individuals with a uniquely coded invisible solution that sticks to skin, clothing and personal items.

    It is detectable under UV light and is traceable for weeks - this allows officers to link offenders to specific incidents and locations.

    South Yorkshire Police said it is aware a "minority of people may look to disrupt celebrations."


    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2025-11-19/police-to-use-dna-tagging-spray-for-the-first-time-at-sheffield-derby

    Surprised it’s taken that long to move from valuable inanimate property to valueless creatures.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,828
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    UK being in need of a truly great leader the question to be answered can't be found in a list of people unqualified. It's too long.

    The PM we need this time around needs talent, ability, tirelessness, judgment, superb communication, a strong hinterland, humanity, vision and be a great talent spotting team builder.

    If there is such a one around, there being no-one obvious, the only people able to find him/her are the Labour MPs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,826
    edited November 19
    Do we have any Windsor-Whisperers here? ( @TSE ?)

    There's some fairly lurid stuff coming into wider view - corruption as Trade Representative, more hired ladies in a weekend than James Hunt had Air Hostesses in a fortnight, refusals to stay in diplomatic residences because he wanted to indulge himself.

    And Palace and security staff are allegedly more willing to talk.

    Plus QE2 and Prince Philip pandering rather than dealing with him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5BXqvO4P8
    https://substack.com/@andrewlownie/posts

    That podcast link is a Daily Beast podcast with author Andrew Lownie.

    I do not have a clear view of the reliability of any of these reports, but it looks a little like a UXB.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic, It looks certain that we will have a new Labour leader by the next autumn conference. It is less obvious who that will be.

    I cannot see a way for Burnham. A stitched up byelection would be a farce and likely for him to lose, even if he is allowed to stand wherever it is. He should stick to the Mayoralty.

    Streeting is obviously going for it, but there is an equally obvious "stop Streeting" faction and that what this remark by Lewis is all about.

    My hunch is the second coming of Ms Rayner.

    Or Cooper
    no, she has no stomach for battle.

    While Rayner is the Boudicca of the North (though of course after some early victories that didn't end well).
    Rayner has been hit by scandal and Labour members would vote for Cooper over Streeting, Miliband or Mahmood a Yougov poll found and maybe now over Rayner too

    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,405
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Imperial aggression works.

    Went out of vogue for a few decades, but it is back and here to stay.
    Imperial aggression has a never had a particularly high success rate, though. Aggressors who attempt to expand territory, now sure, they work from time-to-time, but they lose far more often than then win.

    And when they do win, the costs of 'winning' are often ruinous.

    The trick to being really rich is not to get in wars at all. See Switzerland.
    Sure, but it is working now in Ukraine, albeit at much higher cost and for less gain than Russia initially hoped for.
    With all due respect, the initial invasion is usually the easy bit. It's holding onto land (and people) who don't want to be a part of your country that is the hard bit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,588
    rcs1000 said:

    On Ukraine, I presume order of events is this.

    Trump sends his demand to the UK and other members of NATO, as well as the EU. He tells them that unless they back it, the US will leave NATO (which Trump has always wanted to do).

    The ball is then in Europe's court.

    Europe can afford to tell the US to fuck off. They can also point out to the adminisrtation that it is US arms manufacturers who would pay the highest price for the disentegration of NATO.

    I don't know what Europe will do. Hungary supports Russia, of course.

    Poland and the Baltics are the most hawkish.

    The rest of Europe ... well, we'll see. Europe has the ability to ensure Russia's defeat. But so long have they been prepared to hide behind the US's coattails, that they do not seem willing to confront the new reality.

    They also know that Trump could well impose another round of tariffs on Europe if they fail to fall into lin.

    I hope that the leaders of Europe - Mertz, Macron, Starmer and Meloni - have the balls to stand up and do what is not just right, but what is long term the one with the most positive outcome. The problem is that they want to be reelected. And their economies are already creaking.

    We need someone in Europe with balls and vision and strength. Will that person arise, or will Europe fold?

    Europe and Canada would agree to a ceasefire on current lines as would Zelensky but not Trump's initial proposals
  • algarkirk said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    UK being in need of a truly great leader the question to be answered can't be found in a list of people unqualified. It's too long.

    The PM we need this time around needs talent, ability, tirelessness, judgment, superb communication, a strong hinterland, humanity, vision and be a great talent spotting team builder.

    If there is such a one around, there being no-one obvious, the only people able to find him/her are the Labour MPs.
    While one does not seek the office, one has pledged oneself to the service of one's country. And if one's friends were to persuade one that that was the best way one could serve, one might reluctantly have to accept the responsibility, whatever one's own private wishes might be.

    One reckons one could manage at least twenty minutes before something went terminally wrong.
  • OT - The Greens are very well established in Norwich South and would win a byelection there without breaking sweat. Burnham is pretty much unknown down here and his 'star power' wouldn't help much. Reform has no chance there - even less than in most places where the Lib Dems or the Greens are strong.

    As for Farage - of course he was pro-Nazi at school. Lots of people are stupid at that age. I'm more concerned by his links to certain more contemporary world leaders. One an anti-British imperialist child-murderer and the other a certain well known associate of paedophiles.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,613
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @BarakRavid

    🚨SCOOP: The new Trump plan to end the war in Ukraine would grant Russia parts of eastern Ukraine it does not currently control, in exchange for a U.S. security guarantee for Ukraine and Europe against future Russian aggression.

    https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1991198264431947855?s=20

    Appeasement didn't work in 1938 and no reason to think it'd work now.
    Depends what appeasement was for, really. It bought us a bit of time, and also made it clear that anything further meant war. I think opinion is divided on whether Chamberlain believed he had secured peace.
    The evidence is mixed but the steps he took subsequently in respect of rearmament shows that he was preparing for war and in an unprecedented way. Now that might simply have been Si vis pacem, para bellum but I for one believe he knew it would come to it in the end.
    Rearmament started in 1932, when the German Government *previous to Hitler* laid down the pocket battleships.

    The biggest problem was finds capacity to spend money on. With the run down in armaments, the depression and the new technologies, vast sums had to be spent on factories to build the tools to build the factories to build weapons.

    The Germans rather rushed at this and went to war early at that. So they didn’t have a deep industrial base set up. The U.K. did.

    The idea was that re-armament would make the major turn into producing weapons (rather than mostly. Building factories etc) in about 1939-1940, with peak British readiness in 1941/1942. Which was just before peak German readiness was going to occur - going from their navy plans. Which were impossible to hide.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,279
    rcs1000 said:

    On Ukraine, I presume order of events is this.

    Trump sends his demand to the UK and other members of NATO, as well as the EU. He tells them that unless they back it, the US will leave NATO (which Trump has always wanted to do).

    The ball is then in Europe's court.

    Europe can afford to tell the US to fuck off. They can also point out to the adminisrtation that it is US arms manufacturers who would pay the highest price for the disentegration of NATO.

    I don't know what Europe will do. Hungary supports Russia, of course.

    Poland and the Baltics are the most hawkish.

    The rest of Europe ... well, we'll see. Europe has the ability to ensure Russia's defeat. But so long have they been prepared to hide behind the US's coattails, that they do not seem willing to confront the new reality.

    They also know that Trump could well impose another round of tariffs on Europe if they fail to fall into lin.

    I hope that the leaders of Europe - Mertz, Macron, Starmer and Meloni - have the balls to stand up and do what is not just right, but what is long term the one with the most positive outcome. The problem is that they want to be reelected. And their economies are already creaking.

    We need someone in Europe with balls and vision and strength. Will that person arise, or will Europe fold?

    Europe needs to hold together here or we are finished. Putin and his traitorous stooge in the White House must be stood up to now.
  • rcs1000 said:

    On Ukraine, I presume order of events is this.

    Trump sends his demand to the UK and other members of NATO, as well as the EU. He tells them that unless they back it, the US will leave NATO (which Trump has always wanted to do).

    The ball is then in Europe's court.

    Europe can afford to tell the US to fuck off. They can also point out to the adminisrtation that it is US arms manufacturers who would pay the highest price for the disentegration of NATO.

    I don't know what Europe will do. Hungary supports Russia, of course.

    Poland and the Baltics are the most hawkish.

    The rest of Europe ... well, we'll see. Europe has the ability to ensure Russia's defeat. But so long have they been prepared to hide behind the US's coattails, that they do not seem willing to confront the new reality.

    They also know that Trump could well impose another round of tariffs on Europe if they fail to fall into lin.

    I hope that the leaders of Europe - Mertz, Macron, Starmer and Meloni - have the balls to stand up and do what is not just right, but what is long term the one with the most positive outcome. The problem is that they want to be reelected. And their economies are already creaking.

    We need someone in Europe with balls and vision and strength. Will that person arise, or will Europe fold?

    Can Trump impose more tariffs without damaging the economy or GOP prospects more than is acceptable ?

    Plus there is the SCOTUS tariffs ruling at some point.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,049
    rcs1000 said:

    On Ukraine, I presume order of events is this.

    Trump sends his demand to the UK and other members of NATO, as well as the EU. He tells them that unless they back it, the US will leave NATO (which Trump has always wanted to do).

    Did the Mad King not JUST say today Saudi Arabia was being made a friend of NATO or some such?

    Tomorrow, "We're leaving..." ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,900
    edited November 19
    MattW said:

    Do we have any Windsor-Whisperers here? ( @TSE ?)

    There's some fairly lurid stuff coming into wider view - corruption as Trade Representative, more hired ladies in a weekend than James Hunt had Air Hostesses in a fortnight, refusals to stay in diplomatic residences because he wanted to indulge himself.

    And Palace and security staff are allegedly more willing to talk.

    Plus QE2 and Prince Philip pandering rather than dealing with him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw5BXqvO4P8
    https://substack.com/@andrewlownie/posts

    That podcast link is a Daily Beast podcast with author Andrew Lownie.

    I do not have a clear view of the reliability of any of these reports, but it looks a little like a UXB.

    No, no, the Firm has completely defused the issue by stripping The Duke of Pork of his titles.
    Or so I read.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,580
    HYUFD said:

    The Democrats currently have a 14-point lead against the Republicans among registered voters nationally on the 2026 generic congressional ballot question.

    https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/a-look-to-the-2026-midterms-november-2025/



    George Conway ⚖️🇺🇸
    @gtconway3d
    ·
    4h
    +14 is completely and utterly breathtaking

    https://x.com/gtconway3d/status/1991147081923227988

    Not quite as big as the 17% Democrat midterms win in 1974 after Watergate but close
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections
    Just under a year to go, so there's time for the gap to narrow or widen. The numbers look damning for the Republicans who won the 2024 full House election 220-215 on a 2.5% lead in the vote (roughly 50-47.5). The current numbers would suggest a swing of about 8% from GOP to the Democrats but given how electorally variable the US is, that doesn't play out any more as UNS does here any longer.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,405
    Cyclefree said:

    I've been busy all day but have I got it right that some Labour MPs want to replace Starmer with one of -

    1.Someone who has not been in Parliament for nearly 9 years and got 19% of the vote when he stood for leader last time (Andy Burnham).
    2. A nitwit who came third when she stood for Labour leader in 2020 with 16% of the vote (Lisa Nandy).
    3. Another nitwit (Lucy Powell).
    4. Someone convicted of fraud a decade ago (Louise Haigh) though, ironically, she appears to be more intelligent than the others and had a better record in her short Ministerial career.

    Do they think emulating the Tory party's policy of ousting leaders every year or so is a good idea? Or are they all a bunch of panicking nitwits?

    Sure, but when the alternative is Starmer then almost anyone looks like a titan.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,957
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic, It looks certain that we will have a new Labour leader by the next autumn conference. It is less obvious who that will be.

    I cannot see a way for Burnham. A stitched up byelection would be a farce and likely for him to lose, even if he is allowed to stand wherever it is. He should stick to the Mayoralty.

    Streeting is obviously going for it, but there is an equally obvious "stop Streeting" faction and that what this remark by Lewis is all about.

    My hunch is the second coming of Ms Rayner.

    Or Cooper
    Cooper is the safest option by a long chalk.
  • I'm A Celeb almost scrapped their 'no more politicians' rule for Angela Rayner
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/406_YYJ4Q8c

    Just over a minute of Ange & Ed Davey wanting to enter the jungle, from The Rest is Entertainment.
  • Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic, It looks certain that we will have a new Labour leader by the next autumn conference. It is less obvious who that will be.

    I cannot see a way for Burnham. A stitched up byelection would be a farce and likely for him to lose, even if he is allowed to stand wherever it is. He should stick to the Mayoralty.

    Streeting is obviously going for it, but there is an equally obvious "stop Streeting" faction and that what this remark by Lewis is all about.

    My hunch is the second coming of Ms Rayner.

    Or Cooper
    Cooper is the safest option by a long chalk.
    By the time a choice comes around, there will be a direct comparison between Yvette Cooper and Shabana Mahmood at the Home Office.
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