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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,420
    nico67 said:

    Trump turns on Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    And so the revolution, like all revolutions, proceeds as ever to devour its own.

    Plus ca change.

    Trump demands 100% loyalty . Greene really couldn’t have been more supportive of him and yet she’s discarded like trash now . To call her a RINO is laughable given her voting history . I’m not sure it’s the end of the road for her but she really will have to grovel big time to return . And we’ve seen others do it .
    She's becoming quite a popular moderate figure and did well on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gkc495pzts
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,838
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Half of all UK jobs shed since Labour came to power are among under-25s

    With the government under fire before the autumn budget, Guardian analysis shows the dramatic leap in UK unemployment to the highest levels since the Covid pandemic is being fuelled by a youth jobs crisis.

    As many as 46% of the 170,000 jobs lost from company payrolls since June last year are from those under the age of 25 – the equivalent of more than 150 jobs lost per day.

    Youth unemployment has increased from 14.8% a year ago to 15.3%, the highest level outside the Covid pandemic since 2015, and more than three times the headline jobless rate for people over the age of 16. Long-term youth joblessness is also at a decade high.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/15/half-of-all-uk-jobs-shed-since-labour-came-to-power-are-among-under-25s

    Who could have foreseen this issue.

    Anyone who studies Labour's history. They leave office with fewer jobs than they inherited. It's a side-effect of their broken business model.

    Youth unemployment was no longer a thing under the Tories.
    Hmm - do we have employment rate data for the young? We've discussed in detail on PB why unemployment isn't the full picture - indeed the latest employment and inactivity figures look quite good for the working population as a whole.

    If anyone can be bothered: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/employmentunemploymentandeconomicinactivitybyagegroupseasonallyadjusteda05sa

    And statista's summary of that data have inactivity falling for the young since Labour got into power: https://www.statista.com/statistics/382428/uk-economic-inactivity-rate-by-age/?srsltid=AfmBOoomqBMlDwjTO_IkIbCR-Dcm66yjivBQ_prWQXfjyhPo7KFgMeMk
    I have to admit, very regretfully, that all my late teen/early twenties relatives....... grandchildren, great-nephews etc ........ are having trouble getting onto the bottom rungs of the employment ladder. The only one who is working has a zero-hours job with few, if any, prospects of advancement.
    This isn't why I voted Labour
    It is quite interesting - there's definitely been a big uptick in unemployment for young people, but the inactivity rate is down and the the employment rate is stable (or even a bit up, depending on where you measure from). So it would appear the reason for the change in the labour market is more young people entering the workforce over the last year or so.

    I can't think of a reason for that. Is the number of students dropping at the moment?
    My granddaughter, who graduated this year, has said none of her year have gained employment yet
    My niece tells me that her son, who graduates this year is applying for dozens of jobs. So far, unsuccessfully. His cousin, my younger grandson has gone to Oz. Temporarily, permanently? Who knows.
    Same story with my granddaughter
    I've the opposite problem. Nearly all of my son's friends have gone off and got jobs, normally starting at £100k+, but he is doing a BPhil for 2 more years at very considerable expense. So things could be worse!
    What graduate job starts at £100k+? Other than maybe commercial barrister or Goldman Sachs banker?
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Half of all UK jobs shed since Labour came to power are among under-25s

    With the government under fire before the autumn budget, Guardian analysis shows the dramatic leap in UK unemployment to the highest levels since the Covid pandemic is being fuelled by a youth jobs crisis.

    As many as 46% of the 170,000 jobs lost from company payrolls since June last year are from those under the age of 25 – the equivalent of more than 150 jobs lost per day.

    Youth unemployment has increased from 14.8% a year ago to 15.3%, the highest level outside the Covid pandemic since 2015, and more than three times the headline jobless rate for people over the age of 16. Long-term youth joblessness is also at a decade high.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/15/half-of-all-uk-jobs-shed-since-labour-came-to-power-are-among-under-25s

    Who could have foreseen this issue.

    Anyone who studies Labour's history. They leave office with fewer jobs than they inherited. It's a side-effect of their broken business model.

    Youth unemployment was no longer a thing under the Tories.
    Hmm - do we have employment rate data for the young? We've discussed in detail on PB why unemployment isn't the full picture - indeed the latest employment and inactivity figures look quite good for the working population as a whole.

    If anyone can be bothered: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/employmentunemploymentandeconomicinactivitybyagegroupseasonallyadjusteda05sa

    And statista's summary of that data have inactivity falling for the young since Labour got into power: https://www.statista.com/statistics/382428/uk-economic-inactivity-rate-by-age/?srsltid=AfmBOoomqBMlDwjTO_IkIbCR-Dcm66yjivBQ_prWQXfjyhPo7KFgMeMk
    I have to admit, very regretfully, that all my late teen/early twenties relatives....... grandchildren, great-nephews etc ........ are having trouble getting onto the bottom rungs of the employment ladder. The only one who is working has a zero-hours job with few, if any, prospects of advancement.
    This isn't why I voted Labour
    It is quite interesting - there's definitely been a big uptick in unemployment for young people, but the inactivity rate is down and the the employment rate is stable (or even a bit up, depending on where you measure from). So it would appear the reason for the change in the labour market is more young people entering the workforce over the last year or so.

    I can't think of a reason for that. Is the number of students dropping at the moment?
    My granddaughter, who graduated this year, has said none of her year have gained employment yet
    My niece tells me that her son, who graduates this year is applying for dozens of jobs. So far, unsuccessfully. His cousin, my younger grandson has gone to Oz. Temporarily, permanently? Who knows.
    Same story with my granddaughter
    I've the opposite problem. Nearly all of my son's friends have gone off and got jobs, normally starting at £100k+, but he is doing a BPhil for 2 more years at very considerable expense. So things could be worse!
    What graduate job starts at £100k+? Other than maybe commercial barrister or Goldman Sachs banker?
    Some of them have gone to quant firms doing market manipulation or something like that. Some have gone to commercial lawyer firms who pay that kind of money. Some have gone to venture capitalists. There are a number of employments at that level. Work you like a dog, of course.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629

    nico67 said:

    Trump turns on Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    And so the revolution, like all revolutions, proceeds as ever to devour its own.

    Plus ca change.

    Trump demands 100% loyalty . Greene really couldn’t have been more supportive of him and yet she’s discarded like trash now . To call her a RINO is laughable given her voting history . I’m not sure it’s the end of the road for her but she really will have to grovel big time to return . And we’ve seen others do it .
    She's becoming quite a popular moderate figure and did well on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gkc495pzts
    She's still f*****' bonkers. It's all relative these days.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,915
    First job after uni is a very tough one. Almost impossible to set yourself apart from the thousands of other graduates all looking.

  • isamisam Posts: 43,000
    John Rentoul isn’t positive about EdM as next PM, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t want to be on at 100/1. I’ve laid him at 20/1, but have laid quite a few others as well


  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 337

    Police have arrested two men in connection with a mobile phone hidden in the House of Commons that was reportedly planted there to play sex noises during prime minister’s questions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/15/two-arrested-over-phone-hidden-in-house-of-commons-to-play-sex-noises-during-pmqs

    Anything to relieve is from the tedium of Starmer
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629
    Commiserations to Japan, they deserved the win. No Welsh points put on the board when Japan were down to 13 men. F*** off Steve Tandy!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,504
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Half of all UK jobs shed since Labour came to power are among under-25s

    With the government under fire before the autumn budget, Guardian analysis shows the dramatic leap in UK unemployment to the highest levels since the Covid pandemic is being fuelled by a youth jobs crisis.

    As many as 46% of the 170,000 jobs lost from company payrolls since June last year are from those under the age of 25 – the equivalent of more than 150 jobs lost per day.

    Youth unemployment has increased from 14.8% a year ago to 15.3%, the highest level outside the Covid pandemic since 2015, and more than three times the headline jobless rate for people over the age of 16. Long-term youth joblessness is also at a decade high.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/15/half-of-all-uk-jobs-shed-since-labour-came-to-power-are-among-under-25s

    Who could have foreseen this issue.

    Anyone who studies Labour's history. They leave office with fewer jobs than they inherited. It's a side-effect of their broken business model.

    Youth unemployment was no longer a thing under the Tories.
    Hmm - do we have employment rate data for the young? We've discussed in detail on PB why unemployment isn't the full picture - indeed the latest employment and inactivity figures look quite good for the working population as a whole.

    If anyone can be bothered: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/employmentunemploymentandeconomicinactivitybyagegroupseasonallyadjusteda05sa

    And statista's summary of that data have inactivity falling for the young since Labour got into power: https://www.statista.com/statistics/382428/uk-economic-inactivity-rate-by-age/?srsltid=AfmBOoomqBMlDwjTO_IkIbCR-Dcm66yjivBQ_prWQXfjyhPo7KFgMeMk
    I have to admit, very regretfully, that all my late teen/early twenties relatives....... grandchildren, great-nephews etc ........ are having trouble getting onto the bottom rungs of the employment ladder. The only one who is working has a zero-hours job with few, if any, prospects of advancement.
    This isn't why I voted Labour
    It is quite interesting - there's definitely been a big uptick in unemployment for young people, but the inactivity rate is down and the the employment rate is stable (or even a bit up, depending on where you measure from). So it would appear the reason for the change in the labour market is more young people entering the workforce over the last year or so.

    I can't think of a reason for that. Is the number of students dropping at the moment?
    My granddaughter, who graduated this year, has said none of her year have gained employment yet
    My niece tells me that her son, who graduates this year is applying for dozens of jobs. So far, unsuccessfully. His cousin, my younger grandson has gone to Oz. Temporarily, permanently? Who knows.
    Same story with my granddaughter
    I've the opposite problem. Nearly all of my son's friends have gone off and got jobs, normally starting at £100k+, but he is doing a BPhil for 2 more years at very considerable expense. So things could be worse!
    What graduate job starts at £100k+? Other than maybe commercial barrister or Goldman Sachs banker?
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Half of all UK jobs shed since Labour came to power are among under-25s

    With the government under fire before the autumn budget, Guardian analysis shows the dramatic leap in UK unemployment to the highest levels since the Covid pandemic is being fuelled by a youth jobs crisis.

    As many as 46% of the 170,000 jobs lost from company payrolls since June last year are from those under the age of 25 – the equivalent of more than 150 jobs lost per day.

    Youth unemployment has increased from 14.8% a year ago to 15.3%, the highest level outside the Covid pandemic since 2015, and more than three times the headline jobless rate for people over the age of 16. Long-term youth joblessness is also at a decade high.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/15/half-of-all-uk-jobs-shed-since-labour-came-to-power-are-among-under-25s

    Who could have foreseen this issue.

    Anyone who studies Labour's history. They leave office with fewer jobs than they inherited. It's a side-effect of their broken business model.

    Youth unemployment was no longer a thing under the Tories.
    Hmm - do we have employment rate data for the young? We've discussed in detail on PB why unemployment isn't the full picture - indeed the latest employment and inactivity figures look quite good for the working population as a whole.

    If anyone can be bothered: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/employmentunemploymentandeconomicinactivitybyagegroupseasonallyadjusteda05sa

    And statista's summary of that data have inactivity falling for the young since Labour got into power: https://www.statista.com/statistics/382428/uk-economic-inactivity-rate-by-age/?srsltid=AfmBOoomqBMlDwjTO_IkIbCR-Dcm66yjivBQ_prWQXfjyhPo7KFgMeMk
    I have to admit, very regretfully, that all my late teen/early twenties relatives....... grandchildren, great-nephews etc ........ are having trouble getting onto the bottom rungs of the employment ladder. The only one who is working has a zero-hours job with few, if any, prospects of advancement.
    This isn't why I voted Labour
    It is quite interesting - there's definitely been a big uptick in unemployment for young people, but the inactivity rate is down and the the employment rate is stable (or even a bit up, depending on where you measure from). So it would appear the reason for the change in the labour market is more young people entering the workforce over the last year or so.

    I can't think of a reason for that. Is the number of students dropping at the moment?
    My granddaughter, who graduated this year, has said none of her year have gained employment yet
    My niece tells me that her son, who graduates this year is applying for dozens of jobs. So far, unsuccessfully. His cousin, my younger grandson has gone to Oz. Temporarily, permanently? Who knows.
    Same story with my granddaughter
    I've the opposite problem. Nearly all of my son's friends have gone off and got jobs, normally starting at £100k+, but he is doing a BPhil for 2 more years at very considerable expense. So things could be worse!
    What graduate job starts at £100k+? Other than maybe commercial barrister or Goldman Sachs banker?
    Some of them have gone to quant firms doing market manipulation or something like that. Some have gone to commercial lawyer firms who pay that kind of money. Some have gone to venture capitalists. There are a number of employments at that level. Work you like a dog, of course.
    As NQs at commercial law firms maybe but even there trainees normally only make about £60-70k.

    'Entry-level quant traders in London can expect to earn around £50,000–£80,000 per year'
    https://www.uniadmissions.co.uk/life-after-uni/quant-trader/#:~:text=According to Glassdoor, salaries can,bonuses, tied to trading profits.

    After a few years they may get over £100k in those areas or venture capital yes but fresh out of uni still quite rare
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629

    Police have arrested two men in connection with a mobile phone hidden in the House of Commons that was reportedly planted there to play sex noises during prime minister’s questions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/15/two-arrested-over-phone-hidden-in-house-of-commons-to-play-sex-noises-during-pmqs

    Humour has been killed stone dead in broken Britain.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,743
    Taz said:

    Wales getting tonked by Japan.

    I must be the lucky Wales mascot. I'll say it again. Wales might get beaten AGAIN by Japan.
    They scraped a win against Liechtenstein in the Soccer too !!
    Scotland are up soon against Greece, and then there's fisticuffs at Spurs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,046

    Taz said:

    Wales getting tonked by Japan.

    I must be the lucky Wales mascot. I'll say it again. Wales might get beaten AGAIN by Japan.
    They scraped a win against Liechtenstein in the Soccer too !!
    Scotland are up soon against Greece, and then there's fisticuffs at Spurs.
    Can the big fight live up the first match-up. Was fight of the year for shear violence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,504
    edited 7:48PM
    isam said:

    John Rentoul isn’t positive about EdM as next PM, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t want to be on at 100/1. I’ve laid him at 20/1, but have laid quite a few others as well


    Cooper is the dark horse, Yougov found Labour members voting for the Shadow Foreign Secretary over Miliband, Streeting and Mahmood. Only Burnham beats Cooper head to head but he is not an MP so ineligible

    'In the event that Mr Burnham was unable to stand, YouGov polled a number of head-to-head races. Wes Streeting beats Shabana Mahmood and Ed Miliband, but would lose to Angela Rayner and Yvette Cooper. Ms Mahmood would lose to Mr Miliband and Ms Cooper. And Ms Cooper would beat Mr Miliband.'
    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,743

    Police have arrested two men in connection with a mobile phone hidden in the House of Commons that was reportedly planted there to play sex noises during prime minister’s questions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/15/two-arrested-over-phone-hidden-in-house-of-commons-to-play-sex-noises-during-pmqs

    All this happened in September. It is not clear why it is news again now.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,269
    Roger said:

    Judgment at Nuremberg on BBC2 at the moment. great cast including Marlene, Judy Garland and Montgomery Clift*. Possibly the gayest movie ever made about the Holocaust.

    *And William Shatner!

    The film 'Nuremberg' starring Russel Crowe as Hermann Goring out now is a shocker though I thought his performance was quite compulsive. Probably worth watching for that alone unlike Rami Malek his psychiatrist who did nothing but remind us of the late great Freddy Mercury
    I’ve been tempted to watch this, I’ve always been fascinated by the trials. Read books on it and got the BBc three part drama on it. Nathaniel Parker was in one. But the reviews have said it was good apart from Malek who chewed the scenery

    I was wondering if it gave credence to the view Goering was allowed to take a cyanide pill by the allies before he was due to be hung,
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629

    Police have arrested two men in connection with a mobile phone hidden in the House of Commons that was reportedly planted there to play sex noises during prime minister’s questions.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/15/two-arrested-over-phone-hidden-in-house-of-commons-to-play-sex-noises-during-pmqs

    All this happened in September. It is not clear why it is news again now.
    The Guardian slow off the blocks?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,328
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Half of all UK jobs shed since Labour came to power are among under-25s

    With the government under fire before the autumn budget, Guardian analysis shows the dramatic leap in UK unemployment to the highest levels since the Covid pandemic is being fuelled by a youth jobs crisis.

    As many as 46% of the 170,000 jobs lost from company payrolls since June last year are from those under the age of 25 – the equivalent of more than 150 jobs lost per day.

    Youth unemployment has increased from 14.8% a year ago to 15.3%, the highest level outside the Covid pandemic since 2015, and more than three times the headline jobless rate for people over the age of 16. Long-term youth joblessness is also at a decade high.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/nov/15/half-of-all-uk-jobs-shed-since-labour-came-to-power-are-among-under-25s

    Who could have foreseen this issue.

    Anyone who studies Labour's history. They leave office with fewer jobs than they inherited. It's a side-effect of their broken business model.

    Youth unemployment was no longer a thing under the Tories.
    Hmm - do we have employment rate data for the young? We've discussed in detail on PB why unemployment isn't the full picture - indeed the latest employment and inactivity figures look quite good for the working population as a whole.

    If anyone can be bothered: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/employmentunemploymentandeconomicinactivitybyagegroupseasonallyadjusteda05sa

    And statista's summary of that data have inactivity falling for the young since Labour got into power: https://www.statista.com/statistics/382428/uk-economic-inactivity-rate-by-age/?srsltid=AfmBOoomqBMlDwjTO_IkIbCR-Dcm66yjivBQ_prWQXfjyhPo7KFgMeMk
    I have to admit, very regretfully, that all my late teen/early twenties relatives....... grandchildren, great-nephews etc ........ are having trouble getting onto the bottom rungs of the employment ladder. The only one who is working has a zero-hours job with few, if any, prospects of advancement.
    This isn't why I voted Labour
    It is quite interesting - there's definitely been a big uptick in unemployment for young people, but the inactivity rate is down and the the employment rate is stable (or even a bit up, depending on where you measure from). So it would appear the reason for the change in the labour market is more young people entering the workforce over the last year or so.

    I can't think of a reason for that. Is the number of students dropping at the moment?
    My granddaughter, who graduated this year, has said none of her year have gained employment yet
    My eldest has a first class English degree, and after applying for hundreds of jobs is now on a Masters course to try and specialise. The jobs market barely exists for grads.
    A generation sold a lie. Get a degree, a passport to a great job and a great future.

    Debt slaves for life.

    AI and this govt destroying entry level,jobs.

    I wish them all well and success but worry most will not get it.

    My eldest few great-nieces seem to be doing OK with various trades.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,269
    isam said:

    John Rentoul isn’t positive about EdM as next PM, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t want to be on at 100/1. I’ve laid him at 20/1, but have laid quite a few others as well


    Thoughts and prayers for @TheScreamingEagles at this difficult time
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    John Rentoul isn’t positive about EdM as next PM, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t want to be on at 100/1. I’ve laid him at 20/1, but have laid quite a few others as well


    Cooper is the dark horse, Yougov found Labour members voting for the Shadow Foreign Secretary over Miliband, Streeting and Mahmood. Only Burnham beats Cooper but he is not an MP so ineligible

    'In the event that Mr Burnham was unable to stand, YouGov polled a number of head-to-head races. Wes Streeting beats Shabana Mahmood and Ed Miliband, but would lose to Angela Rayner and Yvette Cooper. Ms Mahmood would lose to Mr Miliband and Ms Cooper. And Ms Cooper would beat Mr Miliband.'
    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
    Out of the names you mention Burnham and Milliband shouldn't even be under consideration. Burnham because he is shite and not an MP, Milliband because he is shite and had his turn and got mullered. The rest, except for Mahmood are just shite.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,269

    Commiserations to Japan, they deserved the win. No Welsh points put on the board when Japan were down to 13 men. F*** off Steve Tandy!

    A gallant loser is………a loser.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,310
    This morning @DailyMail admits that it published a statement it claimed I had made when I have never said anything like it.

    The @DailyMail’s correction & apology for making up something I never said comes after a week in which it has run, by my last count, 6 headline pieces condemning me for being, amongst other things, “unhinged” & “semi-deranged”..

    https://x.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1989596716580966578
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,899
    edited 7:50PM

    It does feel like the Labour government of 74-79 when after two years Wilson was replaced by Callaghan. Perhaps this is what Kemi Badenoch is banking on? Some would argue the real turning point in post war UK politics was the IMF moment in 1976.

    The BMA definitely seems out of control. The hard left is re-emerging as a proper menace. But will voters resort to the traditional conservative response anymore?

    I can dimly remember the power cuts in ‘79

    Labour at that time was were governing, but the result was failure. You can argue about the policies, but they had them and were applying them.

    This time around, they are directionless. Apart from adding regulatory and cost burdens, they have no policies. Certainly none that they are trying to implement with any vigour.

    Instead, they appear to have elevated the courts to be the third, highest chamber of Parliament.
    Even that last statement isn't true, given that the government is currently misleading Parliament or the courts about its respect for the law and intention to follow it.

    It is not Starmer's boringness which is the problem. It is that he is dishonest and untrustworthy. There is a slipperiness about him which, coupled with an inability to articulate any very clear or consistent message, is not attractive.

    That said, the alternatives are worse. So he stays. He may, of course, improve.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629
    Taz said:

    Commiserations to Japan, they deserved the win. No Welsh points put on the board when Japan were down to 13 men. F*** off Steve Tandy!

    A gallant loser is………a loser.
    A victory when one team is shite for 80 minutes and scrapes the win is a hollow victory.

    P.S. I am relieved they did it, but desert doesn't even enter the stadium. Poor show Wales- again.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,513
    Cyclefree said:

    It does feel like the Labour government of 74-79 when after two years Wilson was replaced by Callaghan. Perhaps this is what Kemi Badenoch is banking on? Some would argue the real turning point in post war UK politics was the IMF moment in 1976.

    The BMA definitely seems out of control. The hard left is re-emerging as a proper menace. But will voters resort to the traditional conservative response anymore?

    I can dimly remember the power cuts in ‘79

    Labour at that time was were governing, but the result was failure. You can argue about the policies, but they had them and were applying them.

    This time around, they are directionless. Apart from adding regulatory and cost burdens, they have no policies. Certainly none that they are trying to implement with any vigour.

    Instead, they appear to have elevated the courts to be the third, highest chamber of Parliament.
    Even that last statement isn't true, given that the government is currently misleading Parliament or the courts about its respect for the law and intention to follow it.

    It is not Starmer's boringness which is the problem. It is that he is dishonest and untrustworthy. There is a slipperiness about him which, coupled with an inability to articulate any very clear or consistent message, is not attractive.

    That said, the alternatives are worse. So he stays. He may, of course, improve.
    Agreed until last five words.

    People don't change.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,743
    edited 7:56PM

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    John Rentoul isn’t positive about EdM as next PM, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t want to be on at 100/1. I’ve laid him at 20/1, but have laid quite a few others as well


    Cooper is the dark horse, Yougov found Labour members voting for the Shadow Foreign Secretary over Miliband, Streeting and Mahmood. Only Burnham beats Cooper but he is not an MP so ineligible

    'In the event that Mr Burnham was unable to stand, YouGov polled a number of head-to-head races. Wes Streeting beats Shabana Mahmood and Ed Miliband, but would lose to Angela Rayner and Yvette Cooper. Ms Mahmood would lose to Mr Miliband and Ms Cooper. And Ms Cooper would beat Mr Miliband.'
    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
    Out of the names you mention Burnham and Milliband shouldn't even be under consideration. Burnham because he is shite and not an MP, Milliband because he is shite and had his turn and got mullered. The rest, except for Mahmood are just shite.
    As we said when of the Tory leadership contests, someone has to win.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629
    Nigelb said:

    This morning @DailyMail admits that it published a statement it claimed I had made when I have never said anything like it.

    The @DailyMail’s correction & apology for making up something I never said comes after a week in which it has run, by my last count, 6 headline pieces condemning me for being, amongst other things, “unhinged” & “semi-deranged”..

    https://x.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1989596716580966578

    The Mail should watch their step with the next BBC DG!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,628
    Nigelb said:

    This morning @DailyMail admits that it published a statement it claimed I had made when I have never said anything like it.

    The @DailyMail’s correction & apology for making up something I never said comes after a week in which it has run, by my last count, 6 headline pieces condemning me for being, amongst other things, “unhinged” & “semi-deranged”..

    https://x.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1989596716580966578

    The same paper that is welcoming Trumps case against the BBC . Because accuracy only matters when it’s the BBC.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,504

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    John Rentoul isn’t positive about EdM as next PM, but that’s not to say he wouldn’t want to be on at 100/1. I’ve laid him at 20/1, but have laid quite a few others as well


    Cooper is the dark horse, Yougov found Labour members voting for the Shadow Foreign Secretary over Miliband, Streeting and Mahmood. Only Burnham beats Cooper but he is not an MP so ineligible

    'In the event that Mr Burnham was unable to stand, YouGov polled a number of head-to-head races. Wes Streeting beats Shabana Mahmood and Ed Miliband, but would lose to Angela Rayner and Yvette Cooper. Ms Mahmood would lose to Mr Miliband and Ms Cooper. And Ms Cooper would beat Mr Miliband.'
    https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
    Out of the names you mention Burnham and Milliband shouldn't even be under consideration. Burnham because he is shite and not an MP, Milliband because he is shite and had his turn and got mullered. The rest, except for Mahmood are just shite.
    And Labour members it seems still prefer shite to Mahmood on that poll
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,513

    nico67 said:

    Trump turns on Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene.

    And so the revolution, like all revolutions, proceeds as ever to devour its own.

    Plus ca change.

    Trump demands 100% loyalty . Greene really couldn’t have been more supportive of him and yet she’s discarded like trash now . To call her a RINO is laughable given her voting history . I’m not sure it’s the end of the road for her but she really will have to grovel big time to return . And we’ve seen others do it .
    She's becoming quite a popular moderate figure and did well on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gkc495pzts
    She's still f*****' bonkers. It's all relative these days.
    That's the deep south's philosophy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,838
    Cyclefree said:

    It does feel like the Labour government of 74-79 when after two years Wilson was replaced by Callaghan. Perhaps this is what Kemi Badenoch is banking on? Some would argue the real turning point in post war UK politics was the IMF moment in 1976.

    The BMA definitely seems out of control. The hard left is re-emerging as a proper menace. But will voters resort to the traditional conservative response anymore?

    I can dimly remember the power cuts in ‘79

    Labour at that time was were governing, but the result was failure. You can argue about the policies, but they had them and were applying them.

    This time around, they are directionless. Apart from adding regulatory and cost burdens, they have no policies. Certainly none that they are trying to implement with any vigour.

    Instead, they appear to have elevated the courts to be the third, highest chamber of Parliament.
    Even that last statement isn't true, given that the government is currently misleading Parliament or the courts about its respect for the law and intention to follow it.

    It is not Starmer's boringness which is the problem. It is that he is dishonest and untrustworthy. There is a slipperiness about him which, coupled with an inability to articulate any very clear or consistent message, is not attractive.

    That said, the alternatives are worse. So he stays. He may, of course, improve.
    And we may, of course, win the lottery. That has been our retirement plan for 20 years now. And who knows? It might yet come good. I fancy our chances as being better than Starmer improving.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,310
    Special relationship update.

    Bolduan: But when you have British intelligence saying they don't want to share anymore because they are they are concerned that it is illegal what is being done. That is a problem

    Jennings: You think I give a rip what some country in Europe thinks…

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1989540329708818765
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,960

    Cyclefree said:

    It does feel like the Labour government of 74-79 when after two years Wilson was replaced by Callaghan. Perhaps this is what Kemi Badenoch is banking on? Some would argue the real turning point in post war UK politics was the IMF moment in 1976.

    The BMA definitely seems out of control. The hard left is re-emerging as a proper menace. But will voters resort to the traditional conservative response anymore?

    I can dimly remember the power cuts in ‘79

    Labour at that time was were governing, but the result was failure. You can argue about the policies, but they had them and were applying them.

    This time around, they are directionless. Apart from adding regulatory and cost burdens, they have no policies. Certainly none that they are trying to implement with any vigour.

    Instead, they appear to have elevated the courts to be the third, highest chamber of Parliament.
    Even that last statement isn't true, given that the government is currently misleading Parliament or the courts about its respect for the law and intention to follow it.

    It is not Starmer's boringness which is the problem. It is that he is dishonest and untrustworthy. There is a slipperiness about him which, coupled with an inability to articulate any very clear or consistent message, is not attractive.

    That said, the alternatives are worse. So he stays. He may, of course, improve.
    Agreed until last five words.

    People don't change.
    Quite wrong there, people can and do change.

    I used to be pretty average, but wow, look at me now!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,962
    Nigelb said:

    Special relationship update.

    Bolduan: But when you have British intelligence saying they don't want to share anymore because they are they are concerned that it is illegal what is being done. That is a problem

    Jennings: You think I give a rip what some country in Europe thinks…

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1989540329708818765

    Hermer has fucked our relationship with the US to protect Venezuelan drug traffickers. It's playing very, very poorly in the US. One of the best things about getting rid of Starmer is that Hermer will get booted out with him.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,915
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    It does feel like the Labour government of 74-79 when after two years Wilson was replaced by Callaghan. Perhaps this is what Kemi Badenoch is banking on? Some would argue the real turning point in post war UK politics was the IMF moment in 1976.

    The BMA definitely seems out of control. The hard left is re-emerging as a proper menace. But will voters resort to the traditional conservative response anymore?

    I can dimly remember the power cuts in ‘79

    Labour at that time was were governing, but the result was failure. You can argue about the policies, but they had them and were applying them.

    This time around, they are directionless. Apart from adding regulatory and cost burdens, they have no policies. Certainly none that they are trying to implement with any vigour.

    Instead, they appear to have elevated the courts to be the third, highest chamber of Parliament.
    Even that last statement isn't true, given that the government is currently misleading Parliament or the courts about its respect for the law and intention to follow it.

    It is not Starmer's boringness which is the problem. It is that he is dishonest and untrustworthy. There is a slipperiness about him which, coupled with an inability to articulate any very clear or consistent message, is not attractive.

    That said, the alternatives are worse. So he stays. He may, of course, improve.
    And we may, of course, win the lottery. That has been our retirement plan for 20 years now. And who knows? It might yet come good. I fancy our chances as being better than Starmer improving.
    In most areas of life, people get better at a job the longer they do it (at least up to a certain point).

    Prime Minister though is probably a job where poor performance makes the job much harder to do in future.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,198
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Special relationship update.

    Bolduan: But when you have British intelligence saying they don't want to share anymore because they are they are concerned that it is illegal what is being done. That is a problem

    Jennings: You think I give a rip what some country in Europe thinks…

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1989540329708818765

    Hermer has fucked our relationship with the US to protect Venezuelan drug traffickers. It's playing very, very poorly in the US. One of the best things about getting rid of Starmer is that Hermer will get booted out with him.
    yeah i'm sure the white house is v anti cocaine
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,761

    NEW THREAD

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,731
    edited 8:19PM
    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Judgment at Nuremberg on BBC2 at the moment. great cast including Marlene, Judy Garland and Montgomery Clift*. Possibly the gayest movie ever made about the Holocaust.

    *And William Shatner!

    The film 'Nuremberg' starring Russel Crowe as Hermann Goring out now is a shocker though I thought his performance was quite compulsive. Probably worth watching for that alone unlike Rami Malek his psychiatrist who did nothing but remind us of the late great Freddy Mercury
    I’ve been tempted to watch this, I’ve always been fascinated by the trials. Read books on it and got the BBc three part drama on it. Nathaniel Parker was in one. But the reviews have said it was good apart from Malek who chewed the scenery

    I was wondering if it gave credence to the view Goering was allowed to take a cyanide pill by the allies before he was due to be hung,
    @Taz, the one with Nathaniel Parker/Inspector Lynley in it was "Nuremberg: Nazis on Trial". It was a British production, so was packed with British thesps, and, if memory serves, a drama-documentary with interviews of surviving participants interspersed with the drama and a voiceover uniting the two.

    Such drama-docs used to be common around the 90/00's (Band of Brothers is a partial example), and I have fond memories of the BBC "Dunkirk" with Timothy Bond-actor doing the voiceover.

    One of the better Nuremburgs[2] was with not-Hopkins Hannibal Lektor playing Goering and Alec Baldwin playing Alec Baldwin. It had good interplay between Cox and Actor Playing Man Who Is Puzzled Evil Exists And Wants An Explanation, the role that Malek messes up in Nuremberg. Malek tends to chew the scenery even when underplaying, which is a nice trick if you can pull it off.

    Airey Neave was in Nuremburg in real life. I should have known. Didn't.

    [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814234/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cst_sm
    [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208629/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cst_sm

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,812
    edited 8:32PM
    Edit
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,629
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Special relationship update.

    Bolduan: But when you have British intelligence saying they don't want to share anymore because they are they are concerned that it is illegal what is being done. That is a problem

    Jennings: You think I give a rip what some country in Europe thinks…

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1989540329708818765

    Hermer has fucked our relationship with the US to protect Venezuelan drug traffickers. It's playing very, very poorly in the US. One of the best things about getting rid of Starmer is that Hermer will get booted out with him.
    Hermer and Starmer may be tw@ts but I suspect you may have the wrong end of the stick as far as Trump's relationship with Venezuelan drug traffickers (who are sometimes known as fishermen) is concerned.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,413
    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Judgment at Nuremberg on BBC2 at the moment. great cast including Marlene, Judy Garland and Montgomery Clift*. Possibly the gayest movie ever made about the Holocaust.

    *And William Shatner!

    The film 'Nuremberg' starring Russel Crowe as Hermann Goring out now is a shocker though I thought his performance was quite compulsive. Probably worth watching for that alone unlike Rami Malek his psychiatrist who did nothing but remind us of the late great Freddy Mercury
    I’ve been tempted to watch this, I’ve always been fascinated by the trials. Read books on it and got the BBc three part drama on it. Nathaniel Parker was in one. But the reviews have said it was good apart from Malek who chewed the scenery

    I was wondering if it gave credence to the view Goering was allowed to take a cyanide pill by the allies before he was due to be hung,
    Not according to the film. If you're a sudent of the subject you might enjoy it. It's mainly the Americanisation of it that makes it so unbelievable. As a drama it's quite entertaining but if you know the real story I'm sure you'll find it wanting. They've used some interesting devices like making it all abiout the relationship beyween Goring and his American psychiatrist but I'm very doubtful that this character ever existed.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,826

    maxh said:

    scampi25 said:

    Nigelb said:

    scampi25 said:

    Tres said:

    Sandpit said:

    Roger said:


    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    I would like to retract all my previous criticisms of HSBC.

    I now would be proud to work for HSBC and will be moving my main bank account to HSBC.

    On a totally unrelated note.

    BREAKING: George Osborne, the former chancellor, has emerged as a shock contender to become the next chairman of HSBC Holdings, one of the world's top banking jobs.

    https://news.sky.com/story/former-chancellor-osborne-is-shock-contender-to-head-hsbc-13470375

    Someone who showed only a moderate interest in financial matters whilst in government. Has he shown any particular enthusiasm since?

    This may reflect the bank chairman role now being more of a political one. What does that say about where we are?
    The chairman just sets long term strategy and leads the board, the CEO runs operations day to day
    Presumably he's also expecting to be the DG of BBC at the same time? Maybe edit a couple of newspapers as well?
    Will there still be a BBC by the time a replacement DG is lined up? I don't adequately have a grasp of the figures, but it strikes me a demand in the billions looks like a winding-up event?
    A British court isn’t going to issue a billion-pound anything, even for an egregious defamation, and it’s difficult to see what an American court can do given that the programme concerned wasn’t broadcast in the US.

    Most likely the BBC agrees to a donation in the seven figures to a Trump-nominated charity such as his library fund, and everyone involved in the programme gets a right bollocking over basic journalistic standards and the need to be fair even to those you dislike.

    What the BBC won’t want is anything that looks like the American process of “discovery”, where any and all written correspondence regarding the J6 speech gets sent to Trump’s lawyers.
    It’s timed out in the UK and the US courts don’t have jurisdiction
    Worth remembering that 'friends of the BBC' are very keen to keep the focus on Trump (nasty man wants to destroy auntie!) and not all the other awkward stuff in the Prescott report.
    Yes the BBC are trying hard to make the story about Trump, where they might have some sympathy with the British public in general who don’t look too hard at what they actually did.

    They really don’t want the focus to be on their lack of balance related to gender issues or the war in the Middle East, where they appear to have been captured by a loud group of activist young staff who have little public support.
    Do you just do a show of hands in your Dubai apartment block?

    If you think the BBC are not representing the opinions of the Great British public take a look.

    https://yougov.co.uk/international/articles/52694-british-attitudes-to-the-israel-gaza-conflict-july-2025-update
    What would you expect, when the BBC have spent two years pushing Hamas propoganda into everyone’s house 24 hours a day under pain of imprisonment.
    no point arguing with sandpit he's been radicalised by his social media feed
    He's entitled to his opinions like you, me and the rest, without your smears.
    Fair.

    But in this case it's one of those arguments which isn't falsifiable - "public opinion is meaningless because it's a result of BBC propaganda"...

    So can't be taken particularly seriously.
    The BBC has a responsibility to be especially vigilant but it's clear to.me that, at times, they are not, as they freely admit. The result can be seen as they lose respect.
    A distinction needs to be made between:
    1. Holding the BBC to a higher standard than other news outlets and calling out it's pomposity and failings (which we definitely should do); and
    2. Trying to destroy the BBC (which we should not do, the alternatives take us further down the path of partisan post-truth news).

    My own views on the current mess are skewed by the fact that I think there have been plenty of people with power over the BBC over the past 15 years who have been aiming for 2. This means that I am extremely wary of accepting any criticism of it at face value, especially from those on the right.

    I'm not trying to deny it's failings; I am doubting the sincerity of (many of) those who criticise it.
    Who was in a position of power over the BBC and aimed to destroy it? Names and actions please.
    Busy with the kids, sorry.
    Dorries under Johnson, for example. Actions aren't always visible, hence 'I think' in my post.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,771
    carnforth said:

    Battlebus said:

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Wes Streeting has been accused of taking a “chaotic and incoherent approach” to reforming the NHS which makes it unlikely the government will hit its own targets, according to a damning report by the Institute for Government (IfG).

    The report praises elements of how the health secretary has managed the health service in his first year in office, including improving performance and staff retention in hospitals. Thepay settlement he reached with resident doctors last year avoided a winter plagued by NHS strikes

    But it also criticises significant aspects of his performance, including the way he handled the abolition of NHS England and his lack of action to stem the exodus of senior GPs.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/15/wes-streeting-accused-of-chaotic-and-incoherent-approach-to-nhs-reform

    There’s quite a few Twitter stories about people who have just graduated in medicine or nursing, who are finding it very difficult to get training placements in the NHS.

    There’s likely more to a lot of the stories, such as an unwillingness to move hundreds of miles, but on the face of it there seems to be a planning problem within the NHS.
    We’ve been taking about this for *years* on PB.

    To recap. To make a medic, you send them to university. Then you send them for x years of training in actual hospitals. This is proven methodology and works - same round the world.

    The government caps the university places, then provides less than that in training places. In addition the system of allocating places to people in the NHS involves such fun as randomly sending them round the country.

    So we educate far fewer medics than the NHS requires, train less and then treat them in a manner that a 19th cent mill owner would regard as a bit fruity.

    So we make up the huge gap by importing medics.

    Further, these numbers are increasing far slower than the NHS is growing. So our dependence on foreign labour is growing.

    To add to the fun - remember the A level/uni fun during COVID. Some university classes were expanded by 25% because of that. Guess who is coming off the end of the production line, now? And no, they didn’t increase training places in the NHS.

    So we have a shortage of training places in hospitals.

    I do wonder if Streeting is letting this happen to put pressure on the treasury to release funds to increase the very expensive hospital training places. Or is that giving him too much credit?
    I don’t think the second para is quite right. The government doesn’t cap Uni places. Training places in England are via health education England. And allocation of places is NOT random, but students are ranked and the best student gets the first pick etc.

    How do countries which produce most of their own doctors do it? How do ones which produce a surplus? Their senior doctors cannot be spending all their time on training and none on their own work...
    Cuba does or did. Was a way of spreading influence. Think I met one when visiting the West Bank but may be hallucinating.

    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240619-palestinian-medical-students-in-cuba-highlight-pain-of-diaspora
    Not just for influence. A little darker than that.

    When they are sent abroad, the NGOs they work for pay them the going rate. Cuba then confiscates the vast majority of the paycheque to prop up its foreign currency reserves.
    As opposed to the mere 47% the UK government confiscates 😂
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,771
    Taz said:

    Where’s my irony meter

    ‘ No mother should have to explain to her child she was charged and convicted of something she didn't do.’

    https://x.com/elizabethholmes/status/1989509092323234013?s=61

    To be fair she was charged and convicted for something she didn’t do.

    She didn’t build a product that worked. She didn’t keep her promises to her investors…
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,731
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    Roger said:

    Judgment at Nuremberg on BBC2 at the moment. great cast including Marlene, Judy Garland and Montgomery Clift*. Possibly the gayest movie ever made about the Holocaust.

    *And William Shatner!

    The film 'Nuremberg' starring Russel Crowe as Hermann Goring out now is a shocker though I thought his performance was quite compulsive. Probably worth watching for that alone unlike Rami Malek his psychiatrist who did nothing but remind us of the late great Freddy Mercury
    I’ve been tempted to watch this, I’ve always been fascinated by the trials. Read books on it and got the BBc three part drama on it. Nathaniel Parker was in one. But the reviews have said it was good apart from Malek who chewed the scenery

    I was wondering if it gave credence to the view Goering was allowed to take a cyanide pill by the allies before he was due to be hung,
    @Taz, the one with Nathaniel Parker/Inspector Lynley in it was "Nuremberg: Nazis on Trial". It was a British production, so was packed with British thesps, and, if memory serves, a drama-documentary with interviews of surviving participants interspersed with the drama and a voiceover uniting the two.

    Such drama-docs used to be common around the 90/00's (Band of Brothers is a partial example), and I have fond memories of the BBC "Dunkirk" with Timothy Bond-actor doing the voiceover.

    One of the better Nuremburgs[2] was with not-Hopkins Hannibal Lektor playing Goering and Alec Baldwin playing Alec Baldwin. It had good interplay between Cox and Actor Playing Man Who Is Puzzled Evil Exists And Wants An Explanation, the role that Malek messes up in Nuremberg. Malek tends to chew the scenery even when underplaying, which is a nice trick if you can pull it off.

    Airey Neave was in Nuremburg in real life. I should have known. Didn't.

    [1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814234/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cst_sm
    [2] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0208629/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cst_sm


    "...It had good interplay between Cox and Actor Playing Man Who Is Puzzled Evil Exists And Wants An Explanation...". The latter actor was the Canadian Matt Craven, playing Captain Gustav Gilbert. The scene is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uo2RnBDXsQ . I would have written it differently as it uses 2000's era terminology, but it's well-played with Craven as a good foil as Cox goes big.
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