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The Road To Zero (Labour MPs) – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,782
edited 2:20PM in General
The Road To Zero (Labour MPs) – politicalbetting.com

Since the 2024 general election the popularity of the Labour government has not followed the path generally expected of one elected with a landslide majority, plumbing depths only previously reached by the Truss government.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 22,187
    First. Cowabunga
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,878
    You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off....
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,986
    The hero Keir hari-kari
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,925
    edited 2:30PM
    Shows the danger of extrapolating the future from current trends.
    Already, fewer than 18 months after winning a landslide, the previous article was all about changing leader.
    There's another three years for the landscape to look radically different. The length of time to the next election is farther away than the time when Boris Johnson was PM.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261
    edited 2:30PM
    5th rate government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,469
    "David Runciman made the uncontentious point that Keir Starmer is very bad at rhetoric, the fundamental political skill of communicating to the public to build support. Not only is Keir Starmer not good at this, he fundamentally misunderstood the need to be good at it."

    This was painfully clear in Keir Starmer's first election debate with Rishi Sunak.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,867
    I think Labour were overstated, but also didn't inspire support.

    The fundamental, and rather arcane, divide in GE2024 was between borough and county constituencies, Labour being very meh in their heartland boroughs without losing many seats, but decent in the counties where they gained loads.

    A lot of us saw that Labour were very good on where they were picking up votes, I was saying the southern towns would be the story, a more negative but valid spin was 'a mile wide and inch deep'.

    I saw on a constituency level that there was a threat from Independents, and called that right, without really appreciating the wider depression in the vote share in Labour held constituencies.

    I wouldn't bet a against a surviving SKS and his team playing the FPTP game well again next time out, but the end result of that would likely be a well hung parliament.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,419
    Whilst I agree that Labour's comms are appalling, they need to have something to communicate in the first place.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    So he's the Labour version of Theresa May?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,187

    "David Runciman made the uncontentious point that Keir Starmer is very bad at rhetoric, the fundamental political skill of communicating to the public to build support. Not only is Keir Starmer not good at this, he fundamentally misunderstood the need to be good at it."

    This was painfully clear in Keir Starmer's first election debate with Rishi Sunak.

    Indeed it was especially when Sunak was hardly an overachiever in that department. But he did better SKS.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    I've never really had a pet and so do not understand the attraction on having a thing in the house that wees on the carpet. But for all those of you with a small dog, be prepared to blub your eyes out.

    https://philmcduff.substack.com/p/the-unbearable-weight-of-small-absences
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,706
    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,196
    Good piece.

    ..In a recent podcast about rhetoric David Runciman made the uncontentious point that Keir Starmer is very bad at rhetoric, the fundamental political skill of communicating to the public to build support. Not only is Keir Starmer not good at this, he fundamentally misunderstood the need to be good at it...

    Luke Tryl* made a similar point yesterday when he said that this had become a "can't do", rather than "can do" government.
    The electorate aren't entirely idiotic, and know that there are constraints on government's resources, and ability to do things - but all of Tryl's polling/focus group work indicated that voters strongly prefer leaders who say what they will do (even if it's often bullshit**), rather than going on about how hard it all is.

    That might not be so much of a problem if this government actually got on with some of the positive stuff they can do ... but largely they haven't.


    (* apologies to @ydoethur for mentioning a former Director, Corporate Strategy at Ofsted.)
    (** no apologies to Farage, or the Green hypnotist.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,196

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    How many hundred thousand bridges has China built in the last decade ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,415
    edited 2:44PM
    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,942
    dixiedean said:

    Shows the danger of extrapolating the future from current trends.
    Already, fewer than 18 months after winning a landslide, the previous article was all about changing leader.
    There's another three years for the landscape to look radically different. The length of time to the next election is farther away than the time when Boris Johnson was PM.

    If you extrapolate current trends the forecast would be even worse. All I've done is apply a Starmer standard election campaign to the current polling.

    Boris Johnson was followed by Liz Truss. What happens if Starmer is replaced by someone less suited to be PM?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261
    Nigelb said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    How many hundred thousand bridges has China built in the last decade ?
    It’s not just another bridge though, this one was their Burj Khalifa or Millau Viaduct.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,526

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    In which case he puts someone in the Lords and wins the by-election
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,986

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    Doesnt that apply to most of the party?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,415

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    Any chance of moving to Ilford South?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    Nigelb said:

    Good piece.

    ..In a recent podcast about rhetoric David Runciman made the uncontentious point that Keir Starmer is very bad at rhetoric, the fundamental political skill of communicating to the public to build support. Not only is Keir Starmer not good at this, he fundamentally misunderstood the need to be good at it...

    Luke Tryl* made a similar point yesterday when he said that this had become a "can't do", rather than "can do" government.
    The electorate aren't entirely idiotic, and know that there are constraints on government's resources, and ability to do things - but all of Tryl's polling/focus group work indicated that voters strongly prefer leaders who say what they will do (even if it's often bullshit**), rather than going on about how hard it all is.

    That might not be so much of a problem if this government actually got on with some of the positive stuff they can do ... but largely they haven't.


    (* apologies to @ydoethur for mentioning a former Director, Corporate Strategy at Ofsted.)
    (** no apologies to Farage, or the Green hypnotist.)

    The problem is that the Starmer (and the Government) are so Process State oriented, that they can't conceive of getting rid of, or reducing the Process. The only fix available to them is more Process.

    So their "fixes" to home building have resulted in the construction industry going into a slump, for example.

    And they treat legal reversals in the courts as if the courts were the Third & Highest Chamber of Parliament.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,942
    tlg86 said:

    Whilst I agree that Labour's comms are appalling, they need to have something to communicate in the first place.

    I think the lack of any substance was part of the reason Labour's election campaign in 2024 was so bad.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,159

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    In which case he puts someone in the Lords and wins the by-election
    With Labour at 15% is anywhere that safe?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    Doesnt that apply to most of the party?
    Though, in his case, he may be a casualty even with a small swing away from Labour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    As is Starmer.

    It would be quite the election if the sitting PM lost his own seat, and there wasn’t an obvious quick by-election that would be won by him rather than face a single populist candidate against him.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,187

    tlg86 said:

    Whilst I agree that Labour's comms are appalling, they need to have something to communicate in the first place.

    I think the lack of any substance was part of the reason Labour's election campaign in 2024 was so bad.
    The Ming Vase Strategy

    Certainly as the campaign went on they just bled support.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,526

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    In which case he puts someone in the Lords and wins the by-election
    With Labour at 15% is anywhere that safe?
    Well, it's only a problem if Labour wins the election in which case there will be some safe seats
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261

    Nigelb said:

    Good piece.

    ..In a recent podcast about rhetoric David Runciman made the uncontentious point that Keir Starmer is very bad at rhetoric, the fundamental political skill of communicating to the public to build support. Not only is Keir Starmer not good at this, he fundamentally misunderstood the need to be good at it...

    Luke Tryl* made a similar point yesterday when he said that this had become a "can't do", rather than "can do" government.
    The electorate aren't entirely idiotic, and know that there are constraints on government's resources, and ability to do things - but all of Tryl's polling/focus group work indicated that voters strongly prefer leaders who say what they will do (even if it's often bullshit**), rather than going on about how hard it all is.

    That might not be so much of a problem if this government actually got on with some of the positive stuff they can do ... but largely they haven't.


    (* apologies to @ydoethur for mentioning a former Director, Corporate Strategy at Ofsted.)
    (** no apologies to Farage, or the Green hypnotist.)

    The problem is that the Starmer (and the Government) are so Process State oriented, that they can't conceive of getting rid of, or reducing the Process. The only fix available to them is more Process.

    So their "fixes" to home building have resulted in the construction industry going into a slump, for example.

    And they treat legal reversals in the courts as if the courts were the Third & Highest Chamber of Parliament.
    Yet even within that framework there’s stuff they can do.

    No planning permission required to build “temporary” housing on existing military land, set up camps for the asylum seekers away from the general public, underwrite 50-year warranties on modular houses, etc.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,159

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    In which case he puts someone in the Lords and wins the by-election
    With Labour at 15% is anywhere that safe?
    Well, it's only a problem if Labour wins the election in which case there will be some safe seats
    I thought the issue was Streeting needing to migrate to a safe seat prior to the election?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,878
    edited 3:04PM

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Fail fast....I am taking internal flights on Chinese made aircraft while I am in China, I hope their aerospace QA is better than Boeing....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,432
    edited 3:02PM
    Certainly there is a danger the Labour vote collapses but if it does it will be more likely to have been before a general election campaign and Labour would have replaced Starmer by then with Burnham or Streeting.

    I don't think the Greens would necessarily be the main beneficiaries either, Yougov gives Davey a +27% rating with 2024 Labour voters compared to -7% for Starmer amongst the same group. Polanski though is only +12% with 2024 Labour voters, so you would expect on those numbers more 2024 Labour voters to go LD than Green (Corbyn is on -7% like Starmer with Labour voters at the last GE so they won't go YP either)
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_Favourability_251014.pdf

    Plus if Reform were only on 30% you would expect tactical votes for Labour in Labour held seats if they keep second in the polls to beat Farage
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,878
    isam said:

    Flashback to 2018 when MPs were asked who would be Prime Minister in ten years’ time

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1988601633304154387?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Whose the last bloke, he looks familiar.....

    It reminds me of those Guardian football "wonderkids to follow"....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,432
    edited 3:04PM

    Andy_JS said:

    Wes Streeting seems the obvious choice to replace Starmer. Whether he has enough support from Labour MPs I don't know.

    A bigger issue is that he is quite likely to lose his seat at the next election

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Ilford North
    On those numbers Streeting could retain his seat with Tory and LD tactical votes to beat Corbyn's Your Party
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,714
    I knew that houses in the USA were built out of string and sealing wax by Little Jackie Paper, but this is ridiculous (if real):

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/35piaZDYO3Q
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261
    edited 3:05PM

    isam said:

    Flashback to 2018 when MPs were asked who would be Prime Minister in ten years’ time

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1988601633304154387?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Whose the last bloke, he looks familiar.....

    It reminds me of those Guardian football "wonderkids to follow"....
    Written by those Guardian staffers who spend their days following county school U13 football tournaments?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,432
    edited 3:06PM
    isam said:

    Flashback to 2018 when MPs were asked who would be Prime Minister in ten years’ time

    https://x.com/jaheale/status/1988601633304154387?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Wes certainly isn't modest, as I said on last thread he fancies himself as the British Macron to Starmer's Hollande to keep out the nationalist right
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,706

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Fail fast....I am taking internal flights on Chinese made aircraft while I am in China, I hope their aerospace QA is better than Boeing....
    So long as you’re not flying on Air France you’ll be fine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    MattW said:

    I knew that houses in the USA were built out of string and sealing wax by Little Jackie Paper, but this is ridiculous (if real):

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/35piaZDYO3Q

    Obvious fakery.....
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,486
    Reform majority, Greens as Opposition and SNP as third party?

    Will the last business in Britain please turn off the lights.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,942

    "David Runciman made the uncontentious point that Keir Starmer is very bad at rhetoric, the fundamental political skill of communicating to the public to build support. Not only is Keir Starmer not good at this, he fundamentally misunderstood the need to be good at it."

    This was painfully clear in Keir Starmer's first election debate with Rishi Sunak.

    I think that - after Truss - it was almost impossible for Labour not to win a landslide, and so I think this obscured to some extent how poor a politician Starmer is.

    That's the main point I want to make. Starmer is capable of taking Labour from 411 to 0. The situation is that bad.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,714

    MattW said:

    I knew that houses in the USA were built out of string and sealing wax by Little Jackie Paper, but this is ridiculous (if real):

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/35piaZDYO3Q

    Obvious fakery.....
    Fun, though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,432
    edited 3:13PM

    Reform majority, Greens as Opposition and SNP as third party?

    Will the last business in Britain please turn off the lights.

    Reform majority, Greens as Opposition and SNP as third party?

    Will the last business in Britain please turn off the lights.

    It won't happen, as I posted more 2024 Labour voters have a favourable view of Davey than Polanski (whereas Green voters now like Corbyn more than 2024 Labour voters do). So more likely Reform would be first with the LDs the main opposition if both the Tories and Labour collapsed, with the Tories, Labour, Greens and SNP competing for third
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,391
    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,167
    9% think Reeves is doing well

    She must have a big family

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1988589236778598683?s=19
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,167
    Baroness Newlove dies at 63
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    Because we are governed by people who agree with the following -

    “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,432

    Baroness Newlove dies at 63

    RIP, she did a lot for crime victims
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261
    Interesting hypothesis @LostPassword, a good example of the philosophy that no matter how bad one thinks is it now, things could always get a whole lot worse.

    Published with a real name as well, hope you eventually remembered your password?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,486

    9% think Reeves is doing well

    She must have a big family

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1988589236778598683?s=19

    I thought Reeves was good as Superman.

    Reeves was also good with Mortimer.

    As Chancellor though? Awful.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423

    9% think Reeves is doing well

    She must have a big family

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1988589236778598683?s=19

    Lots of rental properties? - traditionally, the tenants would vote for the landlord.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,187

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    You cannae change the laws of physics Captain.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,714

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    I get buried under those.

    The ASA regime is not working with Youtube.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,187

    9% think Reeves is doing well

    She must have a big family

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1988589236778598683?s=19


    Reeves was also good with Mortimer.
    .
    Lister would disagree
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,803
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting hypothesis @LostPassword, a good example of the philosophy that no matter how bad one thinks is it now, things could always get a whole lot worse.

    Published with a real name as well, hope you eventually remembered your password?

    Two excellent school mottos:

    Nihil malum est si peius fieri potest (Nothing is bad if worse is possible)

    and, courtesy of St Trinian's:

    Primum ictum tuum infer (Get your blow in first)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,878
    Analysis: Beth Rigby explains the Wes Streeting coup claims
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ae077XQJY

    Rigby looks like she was ready for tears.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    MattW said:

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    I get buried under those.

    The ASA regime is not working with Youtube.
    Youtube keeps rejecting my home heating solution adverts.

    Despite proof it works.

    I mean, look at it -



    No moving parts, change once every decade or 2.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,469

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    That looks like a massive earthquake/landslide that took out the whole of the mao-ntainside...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,713
    Kemi's MM question has been clipped up
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6nurI34K29M
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,878
    I’m told the PM went to the MPs dining area after PMQs - had a table reserved.

    Apparently only a handful of MPs stuck around. Most ate and left before he arrived.

    ‘Not sure they even knew he was coming,’ one MP says.

    ‘If that was outreach, it was woeful,’ says another.

    https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1988603066992775639?s=20
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,348
    edited 3:28PM
    Taz said:

    tlg86 said:

    Whilst I agree that Labour's comms are appalling, they need to have something to communicate in the first place.

    I think the lack of any substance was part of the reason Labour's election campaign in 2024 was so bad.
    The Ming Vase Strategy

    Certainly as the campaign went on they just bled support.
    Arguably we're worse off that the Ming Vase wasn't purely an election winning tactic -- if they'd dropped the vase on the steps of number 10 and proceeded to govern on the basis of some kind of previously hidden core driving principle I'm not sure where we'd be but there's a fair chance it'd be better then where we (and the government) are now.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    edited 3:30PM
    Taz said:

    9% think Reeves is doing well

    She must have a big family

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1988589236778598683?s=19


    Reeves was also good with Mortimer.
    .
    Lister would disagree...
    ...and he knows doctors, dentists and architects, so he must be right
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    Because we are governed by people who agree with the following -

    “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,”
    To be fair, we're governed by people who think international law takes precedence. :)
    The infantilisation of MPs
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,187
    viewcode said:

    Taz said:

    9% think Reeves is doing well

    She must have a big family

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1988589236778598683?s=19


    Reeves was also good with Mortimer.
    .
    Lister would disagree...
    ...and he knows doctors, dentists and architects, so he must be right
    Lister, lister, I know Hare Krishna
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,801
    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,382

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    DavidL said:

    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.

    If any the UK wide parties are on 9%, then they are looking at slack handful of seats. Down to localised outcrops of support.

    This we already know.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,986
    edited 3:41PM
    Is McSweeney trying to get fired so that he can get the job heading up Streeting's leadership campaign?

    He seems to have put in an impressive audition overnight..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,851
    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    Sounds like shoddy construction, since they shouldn’t have constructed it there in the first place.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,986
    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    I thought you were talking about Starmer's victory for a moment
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    edited 3:46PM

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    Because we are governed by people who agree with the following -

    “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,”
    To be fair, we're governed by people who think international law takes precedence. :)
    The infantilisation of MPs: see the tweet below and its replies for an example. We don't have separation of powers in the UK in the same way that the US does

    https://x.com/KarlTurnerMP/status/1975618723399835823#m

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    edited 3:47PM
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    Sounds like shoddy construction, since they shouldn’t have constructed it there in the first place.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam comes to mind.

    EDIT: Short version, Italian dam constructed in a place with poor geology. Landslide resulted, wiping out whole villages. Interestingly, the dam survived but is completely useless.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,801

    DavidL said:

    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.

    If any the UK wide parties are on 9%, then they are looking at slack handful of seats. Down to localised outcrops of support.

    This we already know.
    My guess, FWIW right now (which is not a lot) is Reform 25%, Labour +Tories 20% each, Lib Dems and Greens 15% each, SNP and sundry others including Your Party if they still exist 5%. And if you can make a government out of that lot you're a better man than I am Gunga Din.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,423
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.

    If any the UK wide parties are on 9%, then they are looking at slack handful of seats. Down to localised outcrops of support.

    This we already know.
    My guess, FWIW right now (which is not a lot) is Reform 25%, Labour +Tories 20% each, Lib Dems and Greens 15% each, SNP and sundry others including Your Party if they still exist 5%. And if you can make a government out of that lot you're a better man than I am Gunga Din.
    Let me *count* the votes, and I will.

    Would you like the job of Justice Minister in my administration?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,851

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    Sounds like shoddy construction, since they shouldn’t have constructed it there in the first place.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam comes to mind.

    EDIT: Short version, Italian dam constructed in a place with poor geology. Landslide resulted, wiping out whole villages. Interestingly, the dam survived but is completely useless.
    The houses in that photo must be super cheap!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    DavidL said:

    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.

    LeftieStats reckons that the latest Freshwater poll will result in Labour getting 31 seats and coming fifth

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1988384149753798995#m
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1988285629462180221#m
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,196
    .
    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    Shoddy geotechnical work before they constructed the thing, then.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    edited 3:55PM

    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    I thought you were talking about Starmer's victory for a moment
    (headline on spinning newspaper. A stentorian voice announces)

    LARGE METAPHOR COLLAPSES OVERNIGHT: "I WONDER WHAT THAT MEANS" SAYS STREETING AFTER LISTING HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS AT LENGTH
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,801
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.

    LeftieStats reckons that the latest Freshwater poll will result in Labour getting 31 seats and coming fifth

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1988384149753798995#m
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1988285629462180221#m
    Be interesting to see what their model would produce on my numbers.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,617
    Trump should STFU about the BBC and start worrying more about the latest Epstein emails .
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,801
    nico67 said:

    Trump should STFU about the BBC and start worrying more about the latest Epstein emails .

    Trump will talk about and do anything other than speak about Epstein. Anyone who hasn't realised that over the last 12 months really hasn't been paying attention.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,672
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Zero Labour MPs is a fairly absurd proposition. What I will not be surprised to see is Labour losing 200 seats at the next GE. Of course, Parliament may be so fragmented that could still leave Labour as the largest single party.

    LeftieStats reckons that the latest Freshwater poll will result in Labour getting 31 seats and coming fifth

    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1988384149753798995#m
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1988285629462180221#m
    Be interesting to see what their model would produce on my numbers.
    Unknown. It's proprietary: the numbers are input but then special sauce is added, which makes them the British equivalent of (say) Trafalgar. But the turnaround time is good and the graphics are great. Technically Luke Tryl and ElectionMaps are possibly better, but no/few graphics. Plus we don't Baxter polls as much as we used to... :(
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,367

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    That looks like a massive earthquake/landslide that took out the whole of the mao-ntainside...
    I’m aware that I’m guilty of taking the view which is most comforting to hold, but I’m deeply sceptical of the genius of China. They’ve built a metric shit-tonne of stuff over the past 20 years; it will be interesting to see how much of it is still standing in another 20. I would be unsurprised to find a large proportion of their flats live no longer than 40 years and have to be knocked down before they collapse. Which will at least solve their problems of massive oversupply of housing (how many empty units are there in China? Conservative estimates are that there is more empty housing in China than there is housing in the UK; more radical estimates are that there is enough empty housing in China to house the entire world).
    And similarly their transport projects are impressive, but impressive exercises in expensively shuttling empty air around.
    China’s economy doesn’t work like ours. They decide in advance what growth will be, then do as much *stuff* - whether needed or not – so that their GDP matches up to that. That way a reckoning lies.

    But of course other view are available and I'd invite @Leon to present a counterpoint.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,041
    viewcode said:
    At least they're all valid domain names?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,426
    edited 4:09PM
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    Maybe it doesn't make any difference ultimately but this was a landslide, not shoddy construction. ie the hillside the bridge was attached to fell away.
    Sounds like shoddy construction, since they shouldn’t have constructed it there in the first place.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajont_Dam comes to mind.

    EDIT: Short version, Italian dam constructed in a place with poor geology. Landslide resulted, wiping out whole villages. Interestingly, the dam survived but is completely useless.
    The houses in that photo must be super cheap!
    Dammed lake is now dry and filled with landslip (which is what caused the disaster when it fell into the reservoir and sloshed the water over the top of the dam).

    Even so ...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,801
    Foss said:

    viewcode said:
    At least they're all valid domain names?
    Yeah, ridiculous, who would believe that Rachel for one would get that right first thing out of the box for a start?
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 180
    Cookie said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    That looks like a massive earthquake/landslide that took out the whole of the mao-ntainside...
    I’m aware that I’m guilty of taking the view which is most comforting to hold, but I’m deeply sceptical of the genius of China. They’ve built a metric shit-tonne of stuff over the past 20 years; it will be interesting to see how much of it is still standing in another 20. I would be unsurprised to find a large proportion of their flats live no longer than 40 years and have to be knocked down before they collapse. Which will at least solve their problems of massive oversupply of housing (how many empty units are there in China? Conservative estimates are that there is more empty housing in China than there is housing in the UK; more radical estimates are that there is enough empty housing in China to house the entire world).
    And similarly their transport projects are impressive, but impressive exercises in expensively shuttling empty air around.
    China’s economy doesn’t work like ours. They decide in advance what growth will be, then do as much *stuff* - whether needed or not – so that their GDP matches up to that. That way a reckoning lies.

    But of course other view are available and I'd invite @Leon to present a counterpoint.
    And that strategy all functions in a world in which you are constantly getting 6% 7% 8% growth each year, then you can, to use a term, "let a hundred flowers bloom". When that starts to dial back though then the cracks begin to appear.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,964
    FF43 said:

    Ha!

    The BBC's "anti-bias" dossier that called out Panorama for splicing together disconnected quotes itself spliced together disconnected quotes.

    According to Michael Prescott Trump actually said the following, which indicated there was no incitement to riot:

    We are gonna walk down to the Capitol and I’ll be with you. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

    What Trump actually, actually said it appears was the following, with the bit that Prescott cut out in italics and a clear incitement to riot;

    We’re gonna walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

    Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

    I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3m5gxauahck2e

    A dodgy dossier. That brings back memories.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 180
    viewcode said:

    Why is it that despite the proliferation of regulations controlling the internet, you still get adverts promoting heating solutions that defy the laws of physics?

    Because we are governed by people who agree with the following -

    “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,”
    To be fair, we're governed by people who think international law takes precedence. :)
    The infantilisation of MPs: see the tweet below and its replies for an example. We don't have separation of powers in the UK in the same way that the US does

    https://x.com/KarlTurnerMP/status/1975618723399835823#m

    To be fair, the infamous Montesquieu got it wrong also. Though he didnt have access to google or AI to help him.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,426
    FF43 said:

    Ha!

    The BBC's "anti-bias" dossier that called out Panorama for splicing together disconnected quotes itself spliced together disconnected quotes.

    According to Michael Prescott Trump actually said the following, which indicated there was no incitement to riot:

    We are gonna walk down to the Capitol and I’ll be with you. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

    What Trump actually, actually said it appears was the following, with the bit that Prescott cut out in italics and a clear incitement to riot;

    We’re gonna walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

    Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

    I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

    https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrball.com/post/3m5gxauahck2e

    Did Mr Prescott not use ellipses - [...] most explicitly?

    Mind it doesn't always work. Slab once put out a press release bitterly attacking the SNP for misquoting someone or other by leaving stuff out full stop. Slab hadn't realised what the funny characters meant.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,041
    edited 4:18PM
    Cookie said:

    For those lauding the Chinese and their ability to build….

    Moment newly opened bridge collapses in China

    Fall of 2,500ft bridge raises doubts about quality of Beijing’s infrastructure projects


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/12/moment-newly-opened-bridge-collapses-in-china/

    That looks like a massive earthquake/landslide that took out the whole of the mao-ntainside...
    I’m aware that I’m guilty of taking the view which is most comforting to hold, but I’m deeply sceptical of the genius of China. They’ve built a metric shit-tonne of stuff over the past 20 years; it will be interesting to see how much of it is still standing in another 20. I would be unsurprised to find a large proportion of their flats live no longer than 40 years and have to be knocked down before they collapse. Which will at least solve their problems of massive oversupply of housing (how many empty units are there in China? Conservative estimates are that there is more empty housing in China than there is housing in the UK; more radical estimates are that there is enough empty housing in China to house the entire world).
    And similarly their transport projects are impressive, but impressive exercises in expensively shuttling empty air around.
    China’s economy doesn’t work like ours. They decide in advance what growth will be, then do as much *stuff* - whether needed or not – so that their GDP matches up to that. That way a reckoning lies.

    But of course other view are available and I'd invite @Leon to present a counterpoint.
    OTOH, we build a metric shit-ton of cheap and cheerful railway infrastructure in the first half of the 19th century and then went back and did it properly in the second half once it was up and earning and demand had been proven. Lots of bridges that lasted for a century or more started off as wooden structures that were replaced within a generation or so with these good quality rebuilds.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,261
    Well done to all those local authorities buying Chinese electric buses, without checking them for connectivity back to the Mothership.

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/11/11/uk_probe_china_bus_claim/

    UK governmental is working with the National Cyber Security Centre to understand and "mitigate" any risk that China-made imported electric buses could be remotely accessed and potentially disabled.

    This follows concerns raised by Norwegian public transport service operator, Ruter, which conducted cybersecurity tests on a new vehicle made by bus maker Yutong and said it identified vulnerabilities in its on-board systems.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,706
    Sandpit said:

    Well done to all those local authorities buying Chinese electric buses, without checking them for connectivity back to the Mothership.

    https://www.theregister.com/2025/11/11/uk_probe_china_bus_claim/

    UK governmental is working with the National Cyber Security Centre to understand and "mitigate" any risk that China-made imported electric buses could be remotely accessed and potentially disabled.

    This follows concerns raised by Norwegian public transport service operator, Ruter, which conducted cybersecurity tests on a new vehicle made by bus maker Yutong and said it identified vulnerabilities in its on-board systems.

    Bring back British Leyland.
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