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The Same Mistakes. Again – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,780
edited 3:00PM in General
The Same Mistakes. Again – politicalbetting.com

What do the BBC, the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City have in common? No, not the basis for a new competition programme – “Spot The Scandal” – (though if someone wants to “borrow” or “steal” this, remember I’m a litigator, a good one). The answer is this:

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,924
    First.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,924
    edited 3:10PM
    One person's "independent, thorough" inquiry is another's Lefty whitewash. And a third's evidence of capture by shadowy right wing forces.
    There isn't objectivity in news reporting. Only awareness of one's own biases and a sincere attempt to mitigate them.
    Or a blithe lack of it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,933
    @natashabertrand.bsky.social‬

    NEWS: The UK is no longer sharing intelligence with the US about suspected drug trafficking vessels in the Caribbean because it does not want to be complicit in US military strikes and believes the attacks are illegal, sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/11/politics/uk-suspends-caribbean-intelligence-sharing-us
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,694
    I am happy to serve as Director-General of the BBC.

    A headhunter recently rang me about a job with the City of London Police, I am a man in demand.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,954
    Lessons will be learned.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,138
    MaxPB said:

    Lessons will be learned.

    As they always are !!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    Great header. 100% agree

    It's History Repeating - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT6_TQmq8

    As ever

    - talking about being impartial isn't being impartial
    - patting youself on the back about how your organisation has a reputation for being impartial, isn't being impartial
    - demanding respect for being impartial, isn't being impartial
    - Firing CEOs doesn't make you impartial
    - Strongly worded statements of "lessons will be learned" doesn't make you impartial.

    Being impartial makes you impartial.

    Perfection is for the gods alone. But you need to *try* every damn day. Work at it. Think about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362

    I am happy to serve as Director-General of the BBC.

    A headhunter recently rang me about a job with the City of London Police, I am a man in demand.

    The City of London Police have fallen behind in corruption and racism.

    Do you think you could help them catch up with the Met?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    Is there a link to the full report that doesn't go through the Telegraph ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,644
    edited 3:24PM
    The YouTube algorithm is feeding me many videos on The Latest BBC Kerfuffle. They include but are not limited to:
    For betting opportunities, the New Statesman points out that three women being discussed as DG replacement are:
    • Alex Mahon (who has just left Channel 4 as as chief executive)
    • Charlotte Moore (ex BBC controller of BBC 1)
    • Jay Hunt (also formerly of the BBC)



  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,228
    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.
  • I am happy to serve as Director-General of the BBC.

    A headhunter recently rang me about a job with the City of London Police, I am a man in demand.

    If you and I were in the final run off for the position, even if neither of us secured it I would have some confidence that lessons really have been learnt and the future is secure. Sadly, we won't be.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,573
    MaxPB said:

    Lessons will be learned.

    And then they will be forgotten, as Professor Ebbinghaus pointed out. Because that's the nature of learning stuff.

    There's a tension here, becuase the best chance of stopping things like this happening is a combination of more supervision (which costs, and we collectively don't want to pay) and forgiveness (because throwing people to the wolves encourages the coverups).

    Engineering has worked that out, and medicine is beginning to get there. But it sticks in the throat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    This is going well.

    BBC employees in open revolt about Robbie Gibb on all-staff call this morning. BBC chair Samir Shah said attacks on board members are "disrespectful" and shut down talk of a Conservative coup as "fanciful."
    https://x.com/Jake_Kanter/status/1988211648977608829

    Astonishing scenes from the @BBCNews meeting with Tim Davie and Samir Shah.
    * Chairman said it was disrespectful to suggest board wasn’t upholding BBC values, causing widespread fury
    * Explained the week long delay in commenting on @Telegraph leak was because of need to check facts. Telling that to a newsroom where they have to meet hourly deadlines again didn’t land well.
    * Interview with Davie and Shah not conducted by any of the BBC presenters, but by head of internal comms
    * Newsroom has been told it can use clips on bulletins of Davie praising staff, but none of Samir Shah
    * am told mood is sulfurous and mutinous

    https://x.com/jonsopel/status/1988249133556121900
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,307
    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,573

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    True- though that doesn't mean that the criticisms are wrong, or even silly. (Though some, like the 'where was the balancing documentary on what's bad about Harris?' surely were.)
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 214

    dixiedean said:

    One person's "independent, thorough" inquiry is another's Lefty whitewash. And a third's evidence of capture by shadowy right wing forces.
    There isn't objectivity in news reporting. Only awareness of one's own biases and a sincere attempt to mitigate them.
    Or a blithe lack of it.

    I very much agree. Those three letters we learn as teenagers, "wrt", "with respect to". Impartiality per se is as preposterous a concept as differentiation or integration but omitting "with respect to". We all have a bias with respect to our lived experience. Just because each of us is quite rightly the whole centre of our own universe does not make any of us the centre of the Universe as a whole

    Oh absolutely.

    And I'd suggest that the best action to take with respect to this is not to try and be more impartial, which is a fool's errand, but to own and admit ones own biases and the journey that led to them.

    But that's not a good narrative, especially when you're supposed to be putting a report together in the 'National interest' or running a public service broadcaster...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,369
    edited 3:46PM
    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,897
    The guardian are pushing a rather different story that this is a coup led by Robbie Gibb. It certainly seems absurd that he is on the board.

    I suspect the governance arrangements at the BBC were probably okay for the pre-Boris/Trump era but now are utterly naive about the new politics.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,445
    edited 3:53PM
    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    In some three months, the Ukrainians have greatly reduced the Russian options for selling their crude oil to international sellers - the remaining options now being heavily hit - whilst very significantly reducing Russia's ability to refine or store crude oil. At the same time, the Ukrainians have been systematically destroying the abilty for Moscow especially to maintain electricity and heating going in to winter, to the point where another big push and what was already teetering through inadequate maintainence (often linked to corruption) will collpase.

    Remarkable. Putin will have traded the rubble of Pokrovsk (perhaps temporarily) for a working economy able to support military activity.

    Fair trade, says Ukraine.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    a
    dixiedean said:

    I am happy to serve as Director-General of the BBC.

    A headhunter recently rang me about a job with the City of London Police, I am a man in demand.

    Are you sure?
    Did they say you were a person of interest to them?
    And ask you to come in for an interview?
    Excessively modest in a public place?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,863

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    True- though that doesn't mean that the criticisms are wrong, or even silly. (Though some, like the 'where was the balancing documentary on what's bad about Harris?' surely were.)
    Yes agreed. The Panorama edit was poor but hardly a 'phone-hacking' level crime. You'd think maybe a retraction and apology would be in order.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,694
    dixiedean said:

    I am happy to serve as Director-General of the BBC.

    A headhunter recently rang me about a job with the City of London Police, I am a man in demand.

    Are you sure?
    Did they say you were a person of interest to them?
    And ask you to come in for an interview?
    Now that you mention…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    KnightOut said:

    dixiedean said:

    One person's "independent, thorough" inquiry is another's Lefty whitewash. And a third's evidence of capture by shadowy right wing forces.
    There isn't objectivity in news reporting. Only awareness of one's own biases and a sincere attempt to mitigate them.
    Or a blithe lack of it.

    I very much agree. Those three letters we learn as teenagers, "wrt", "with respect to". Impartiality per se is as preposterous a concept as differentiation or integration but omitting "with respect to". We all have a bias with respect to our lived experience. Just because each of us is quite rightly the whole centre of our own universe does not make any of us the centre of the Universe as a whole

    Oh absolutely.

    And I'd suggest that the best action to take with respect to this is not to try and be more impartial, which is a fool's errand, but to own and admit ones own biases and the journey that led to them.

    But that's not a good narrative, especially when you're supposed to be putting a report together in the 'National interest' or running a public service broadcaster...
    That was the thrust of Goodall's piece:
    ..as the media and political environment has moved rightward, the BBC is still in its usual bland, mushy central position, with its boring set of dispositions- but it seems more left wing by default. It hasn’t moved- the environment has and continues to do so. But the biggest sin the BBC has in my experience, is that the BBC isn’t that political at all, that it doesn’t have enough truly political people of any type. It should have more arch liberals, conservatives, socialists- so long as they can and are willing to think critically. Instead, it too often chooses not to think at all, because it’s easier, and safer- the intellectual crouch position. But that is precisely because it has been so terrified by the criticism it receives. The safe place for output is the stodgy and inoffensive, the twee and the banal. Is it institutionally biased? No. Is it institutionally unimaginative and insufficiently curious to all radical political ideas? Yes. Is it now institutionally risk averse? Yes..

    I think it's fine having those of strong political opinions involved, as long as they are entirely open about them, and that they are intellectually honest about how they approach (eg) news stories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    edited 3:58PM
    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    It's institutional rot.

    In the Met, that's covering up/ignoring racism and other crimes.
    In the NHS, that's covering up/ignoring poor healthcare
    In the Post Office that's covering up/ignoring the fact they were persecuting the innocent
    In the City that's covering up/ignoring the fact that they were fucking up. Repeatedly.
    In the BBC that's....

    As any good carpenter will tell you, if you treat a rotted wooden window early enough, you just have to chisel out a small section, replace, glue, sand, paint. If you wait until the whole window is rotten....
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,309
    Thank you for the header. Sadly I am too old & too tired to make any difference anywhere at all. Still doing my best at the place where I volunteer but will be really glad when some younger people roll up to take over. Trouble is, I'm not so old & so tired that I don't care any longer.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,863
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Would any PBer who knows about these things (I think we have a few) care to summarise how significant this sort of repeated attack might be for Russia and Putin?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    "With clever techniques" has more than a hint of begging the question about it, in this context.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,377
    Set the BBC free to become a global media giant. The licence fee model is no longer appropriate.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    Nigelb said:

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    "With clever techniques" has more than a hint of begging the question about it, in this context.
    No report on bias will be unbiased. But, using some basic philosophical tools, you can use the biased report to help you produce an organisation that is less biased than *the report*.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,228
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Indeed, the Flamingos appear to be flying well.

    The other really interesting bit in the last couple of days is the European and Middle East operations of Lukoil and Rosneft being either taken over or nationalised by the countries in which they operate, depriving the companies of a significant flow of hard currency.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,000
    Honestly, this header.

    How did it miss OFSTED out of that first line?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,000
    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased.

    Would you?

    I would normally expect it to be an inane whitewash.

    But maybe I'm cynical having worked in education all these years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    NEW: A distinguished female Navy captain within Naval Special Warfare — a Purple Heart recipient with experience w/ SEAL Team Six — was expected to take command this summer, when it was abruptly cancelled just days before. The impression within the NSW community: Secretary Hegseth did not want a woman fronting a role that would recruit special operations.

    Her career is now effectively over. ..

    https://x.com/halbritz/status/1988214146878292129
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,142

    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    It's institutional rot.

    In the Met, that's covering up/ignoring racism and other crimes.
    In the NHS, that's covering up/ignoring poor healthcare
    In the Post Office that's covering up/ignoring the fact they were persecuting the innocent
    In the City that's covering up/ignoring the fact that they were fucking up. Repeatedly.
    In the BBC that's....

    As any good carpenter will tell you, if you treat a rotted wooden window early enough, you just have to chisel out a small section, replace, glue, sand, paint. If you wait until the whole window is rotten....
    You can fit nice new UPVC ones?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,573

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    True- though that doesn't mean that the criticisms are wrong, or even silly. (Though some, like the 'where was the balancing documentary on what's bad about Harris?' surely were.)
    Yes agreed. The Panorama edit was poor but hardly a 'phone-hacking' level crime. You'd think maybe a retraction and apology would be in order.
    I'm reminded of a comment made by a Private Eye hack that many newspaper corrections add to the inaccuracy of the newspaper publishing the correction. (Yes, that seems paradoxical, but consider that the correction will be steered by one participant in the story.)

    I suspect that the Prescott report, by highlighting certain imbalances that some people see in BBC coverage, is having much the same effect.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,000

    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    It's institutional rot.

    In the Met, that's covering up/ignoring racism and other crimes.
    In the NHS, that's covering up/ignoring poor healthcare
    In the Post Office that's covering up/ignoring the fact they were persecuting the innocent
    In the City that's covering up/ignoring the fact that they were fucking up. Repeatedly.
    In the BBC that's....

    As any good carpenter will tell you, if you treat a rotted wooden window early enough, you just have to chisel out a small section, replace, glue, sand, paint. If you wait until the whole window is rotten....
    You can fit nice new UPVC ones?
    That's what a salesman would say, not a carpenter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    Jan 6th contd.
    The guy imprisoned for 15 years for seditious conspiracy, pardoned by Trump.

    Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes announced yesterday on Gateway Pundit that he's relaunching the group, saying he wanted to let Trump know that “we're ready to serve, encourage him to do that, call us up as a militia."
    https://x.com/ElizLanders/status/1987936388654743808
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,350
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Indeed, the Flamingos appear to be flying well.

    The other really interesting bit in the last couple of days is the European and Middle East operations of Lukoil and Rosneft being either taken over or nationalised by the countries in which they operate, depriving the companies of a significant flow of hard currency.
    Wasn't hard currency exchanged when those companies werre taken over/nationalised? Or were they simply expropriated?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,307

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    In some three months, the Ukrainians have greatly reduced the Russian options for selling their crude oil to international sellers - the remaining options now being heavily hit - whilst very significantly reducing Russia's ability to refine or store crude oil. At the same time, the Ukrainians have been systematically destroying the abilty for Moscow especially to maintain electricity and heating going in to winter, to the point where another big push and what was already teetering through inadequate maintainence (often linked to corruption) will collpase.

    Remarkable. Putin will have traded the rubble of Pokrovsk (perhaps temporarily) for a working economy able to support military activity.

    Fair trade, says Ukraine.

    This is a crucially important point that I think is underappreciated. Russia is dependent on oil exports to pay for things. The army gets first dibs on oil, the civilian economy second, and only after that do they get to sell oil abroad. So, every time an oil pipeline goes boom, and cuts 50k barrels a day from Russian production, that's $5m a day they've lost.

    On top of this, there's another issue: Russia's oil fields are reliant on Western equipment to fight the decline curves. There really are no Russian or Chinese alternatives to Schlumberger and Halliburton. Which means Russian oil production - even before the strikes - is probably going to be dropping at 5% or so per year.

    And now the Russian government is attempting to 'buck the market' by ordering companies not to raise the price of oil to consumers, which never works well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,000
    Nigelb said:

    Jan 6th contd.
    The guy imprisoned for 15 years for seditious conspiracy, pardoned by Trump.

    Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes announced yesterday on Gateway Pundit that he's relaunching the group, saying he wanted to let Trump know that “we're ready to serve, encourage him to do that, call us up as a militia."
    https://x.com/ElizLanders/status/1987936388654743808

    Perhaps he could send them to Ukraine as aid for his allies.

    That would be an advantage given how useless they proved on 6th Jan.

    The Ukrainians would mow them down before they had advanced very far.

    Win/win.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,957
    The latest TRIP has Alistair Campbell bemoaning this as an unwarranted agenda-driven attack on the BBC. I think it clearly is but that's quite some irony in the messenger there.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,644
    AnneJGP said:

    Thank you for the header. Sadly I am too old & too tired to make any difference anywhere at all. Still doing my best at the place where I volunteer but will be really glad when some younger people roll up to take over. Trouble is, I'm not so old & so tired that I don't care any longer.

    Don'tr beat yourself up over it: you're never too old to make a difference, but the magnitude of the difference and the number of people it'll affect gets less as you grow older, especially if you want to make a good difference - you can still blow up an airliner, but the odds on you curing cancer get less with each day :(

    In the end, you can only do what we all can do: keep you family close, tell them that you love them, and do the best you can with the time remaining. If it helps, a lot of people do a lot less.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,604
    edited 4:17PM
    I have a little bias test for news organizations, thinking as I have for years that often bias is more in what news organizations choose to cover, and what they choose not to cover, or cover only minimally, that what they do say. It works better in the US than the UK, but I think it would still be useful there.

    George Floyd died in a conflict with a police officer. One death.

    PEPFAR has saved more than 25 million lives so far, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa. More than 25 million lives.

    What is the appropriate news balance between these two? Twenty-five million to one might be excessive, but spending more time and space on the first than the second seems irrational, to put it gently.

    (Those who want to try this test out can begin with simple searches on news organization. I'd particularly be interested in what any of you find at the BBC.)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,644

    Set the BBC free to become a global media giant. The licence fee model is no longer appropriate.

    I don't want it to be a global media giant. I want it to be The Voice Of Britain. In a world where national boundaries are dissolving and people live online, I want something for us, not the US.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,572
    Nigelb said:

    NEW: A distinguished female Navy captain within Naval Special Warfare — a Purple Heart recipient with experience w/ SEAL Team Six — was expected to take command this summer, when it was abruptly cancelled just days before. The impression within the NSW community: Secretary Hegseth did not want a woman fronting a role that would recruit special operations.

    Her career is now effectively over. ..

    https://x.com/halbritz/status/1988214146878292129

    The “impression within” doing quite a bit of heavy lifting in that article.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362

    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    It's institutional rot.

    In the Met, that's covering up/ignoring racism and other crimes.
    In the NHS, that's covering up/ignoring poor healthcare
    In the Post Office that's covering up/ignoring the fact they were persecuting the innocent
    In the City that's covering up/ignoring the fact that they were fucking up. Repeatedly.
    In the BBC that's....

    As any good carpenter will tell you, if you treat a rotted wooden window early enough, you just have to chisel out a small section, replace, glue, sand, paint. If you wait until the whole window is rotten....
    You can fit nice new UPVC ones?
    {Gently picks up 2000-lb-draw siege crossbow}

    You what?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jan 6th contd.
    The guy imprisoned for 15 years for seditious conspiracy, pardoned by Trump.

    Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes announced yesterday on Gateway Pundit that he's relaunching the group, saying he wanted to let Trump know that “we're ready to serve, encourage him to do that, call us up as a militia."
    https://x.com/ElizLanders/status/1987936388654743808

    Perhaps he could send them to Ukraine as aid for his allies.

    That would be an advantage given how useless they proved on 6th Jan.

    The Ukrainians would mow them down before they had advanced very far.

    Win/win.
    Ah, the División Azul strategy. Send your problematic followers to die in the Russian Winter.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,307

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Would any PBer who knows about these things (I think we have a few) care to summarise how significant this sort of repeated attack might be for Russia and Putin?
    So: there are two subtly different issues.

    First, there is the impact on Russian domestic supplies of gasoline, kerosene and diesel that are used in the civilian and military economies. These are being badly affected by the refinery strikes. The best estimate (before last night's attacks) is that 38% of Russian refining capacity is offline. Now, there will be some slack in the system, so that doesn't mean production is down quite as much. But it is a massive number, and if it were to get any bigger, then ordinary Russians would suddenly find getting petrol increasingly difficult and expensive.

    Second, there is the impact on Russian sales abroad due to pipelines being blown up. This is probably a smaller issue in the short term, because Russia had lots of foreign reserves it can use. But over time it adds up. At some point those dry up, and that will severely hamper Russia's ability to buy the things it needs to keep fighting.

    I reckon the former issue is probably the bigger short term one. Because rising fuel prices can really screw over a lot of people, especially with winter coming.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,000
    edited 4:18PM

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jan 6th contd.
    The guy imprisoned for 15 years for seditious conspiracy, pardoned by Trump.

    Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes announced yesterday on Gateway Pundit that he's relaunching the group, saying he wanted to let Trump know that “we're ready to serve, encourage him to do that, call us up as a militia."
    https://x.com/ElizLanders/status/1987936388654743808

    Perhaps he could send them to Ukraine as aid for his allies.

    That would be an advantage given how useless they proved on 6th Jan.

    The Ukrainians would mow them down before they had advanced very far.

    Win/win.
    Ah, the División Azul strategy. Send your problematic followers to die in the Russian Winter.
    As Macbeth didn't quite say, the way to muddy death.

    Although many of those brief candles seem to be very well lit.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,307

    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    It's institutional rot.

    In the Met, that's covering up/ignoring racism and other crimes.
    In the NHS, that's covering up/ignoring poor healthcare
    In the Post Office that's covering up/ignoring the fact they were persecuting the innocent
    In the City that's covering up/ignoring the fact that they were fucking up. Repeatedly.
    In the BBC that's....

    As any good carpenter will tell you, if you treat a rotted wooden window early enough, you just have to chisel out a small section, replace, glue, sand, paint. If you wait until the whole window is rotten....
    You can fit nice new UPVC ones?
    Exactly! With much better heat insulation, etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,580
    edited 4:20PM
    Surely the quickest remedy to resolve the BBC crisis would be to set up a McCarthy style Broadcasting House un-Conservative Activities Committee chaired by Robbie Gibb ensuring only Trump/Farage/Netanyahu adjacent journalists, presenters, comedians and managers are employed with Boris Johnson shoehorned in as DG.

    That would seem like all left-wing bias is removed at a stroke.

    P.S. Geoff Norcott and Jim Davidson as the new presenters of Strictly.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,572
    viewcode said:

    Set the BBC free to become a global media giant. The licence fee model is no longer appropriate.

    I don't want it to be a global media giant. I want it to be The Voice Of Britain. In a world where national boundaries are dissolving and people live online, I want something for us, not the US.
    viewcode said:

    Set the BBC free to become a global media giant. The licence fee model is no longer appropriate.

    I don't want it to be a global media giant. I want it to be The Voice Of Britain. In a world where national boundaries are dissolving and people live online, I want something for us, not the US.
    What is this “voice of Britain” to which you refer? Does Britain have one voice? Is it chosen for us on pain of prosecution and/or a fine for not paying them?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153
    kinabalu said:

    The latest TRIP has Alistair Campbell bemoaning this as an unwarranted agenda-driven attack on the BBC. I think it clearly is but that's quite some irony in the messenger there.

    I think (?) Campbell is arguing that having Gibb on the board is like having Campbell on the board - ie completely unacceptable.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,307

    I have a little bias test for news organizations, thinking as I have for years that often bias is more in what news organizations choose to cover, and what they choose not to cover, or cover only minimally, that what they do say. It works better in the US than the UK, but I think it would still be useful there.

    George Floyd died in a conflict with a police officer. One death.

    PEPFAR has saved more than 25 million lives so far, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa. More than 25 million lives.

    What is the appropriate news balance between these two? Twenty-five million to one might be excessive, but spending more time and space on the first than the second seems irrational, to put it gently.

    (Those who want to try this test out can begin with simple searches on news organization. I'd particularly be interested in what any of you find at the BBC.)

    In the eyes of the current US administration, why would you want more foreigners?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,369
    edited 4:21PM

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    No but there's already a review process in the BBC for bias, which is dealing with most or all of the genuine issues including the Panorama edit. This process appears to be much more rigorous and objective than Michael Prescott's hatchet job. So why not run with that?

    I have no problem with Prescott having a personal view of how he would like stories to be reported but it's concerning the BBC board have delegated overall editorial judgement to an outsider with an agenda.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Would any PBer who knows about these things (I think we have a few) care to summarise how significant this sort of repeated attack might be for Russia and Putin?
    So: there are two subtly different issues.

    First, there is the impact on Russian domestic supplies of gasoline, kerosene and diesel that are used in the civilian and military economies. These are being badly affected by the refinery strikes. The best estimate (before last night's attacks) is that 38% of Russian refining capacity is offline. Now, there will be some slack in the system, so that doesn't mean production is down quite as much. But it is a massive number, and if it were to get any bigger, then ordinary Russians would suddenly find getting petrol increasingly difficult and expensive.

    Second, there is the impact on Russian sales abroad due to pipelines being blown up. This is probably a smaller issue in the short term, because Russia had lots of foreign reserves it can use. But over time it adds up. At some point those dry up, and that will severely hamper Russia's ability to buy the things it needs to keep fighting.

    I reckon the former issue is probably the bigger short term one. Because rising fuel prices can really screw over a lot of people, especially with winter coming.
    The next question is - what proportion of the refining capacity of the affected products* is exportable/exported at the moment?

    *refineries don't turn Generic Crude oil into a complete range of products. They turn a specific type of crude (usually) into a specific list of products.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    It's institutional rot.

    In the Met, that's covering up/ignoring racism and other crimes.
    In the NHS, that's covering up/ignoring poor healthcare
    In the Post Office that's covering up/ignoring the fact they were persecuting the innocent
    In the City that's covering up/ignoring the fact that they were fucking up. Repeatedly.
    In the BBC that's....

    As any good carpenter will tell you, if you treat a rotted wooden window early enough, you just have to chisel out a small section, replace, glue, sand, paint. If you wait until the whole window is rotten....
    You can fit nice new UPVC ones?
    Exactly! With much better heat insulation, etc.
    Foul heretic....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    No but there's already a review process in the BBC for bias, which is dealing with most or all of the genuine issues including the Panorama edit. This process appears to be much more rigorous and objective than Michael Prescott's hatchet job. So why not run with that?

    I have no problem with Prescott having a personal view of how he would like stories to be reported but it's concerning the BBC board have delegated overall editorial judgement to an outsider with an agenda.
    They haven't delegated editorial judgement to an outsider.

    He wrote a report/memo on editorial judgement. Which, in among the partisan stuff, deals with a number of objective failures in meetings standards.

    Which is why people resigned.

    The sane approach is to prevent the same shit happening again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,153

    Nigelb said:

    NEW: A distinguished female Navy captain within Naval Special Warfare — a Purple Heart recipient with experience w/ SEAL Team Six — was expected to take command this summer, when it was abruptly cancelled just days before. The impression within the NSW community: Secretary Hegseth did not want a woman fronting a role that would recruit special operations.

    Her career is now effectively over. ..

    https://x.com/halbritz/status/1988214146878292129

    The “impression within” doing quite a bit of heavy lifting in that article.
    Is it ?

    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/11/politics/hegseth-women-naval-commander-ousted
    ..Ranked the top officer for promotion in her cohort, she received a Purple Heart after being injured in an IED attack during a combat tour in Iraq. She then became the first woman to serve with SEAL Team Six in the role of troop commander, one of several senior positions within the squadrons that make up the elite naval unit.

    A formal ceremony marking her new position was planned for July. Invitations went out two months in advance.

    But just two weeks before the ceremony, her command was abruptly canceled with little explanation, according to multiple sources familiar with the situation. The decision didn’t come through formal channels but by a series of phone calls from the Pentagon, one of the sources said. The circumstances were unusual and seemed designed to omit a paper trail, according to multiple sources.

    Under the Navy’s “up or out” policy, with no command slot to take, the officer’s more than two-decade military career was effectively over..



  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,142
    Nigelb said:

    I'm for once slightly less than fully convinced by a Cyclfree header.

    In particular, this: What is needed now is a proper investigation into the concerns raised.
    What would that mean ?

    The BBC spat seems to me (FWIW) significantly different to "the Met Police, the NHS, the Post Office and the City", in that what is being argued about isn't so much matters of fact, or even criminal malfeasance, as matters of contested political opinion on how a public news operation should be conducted.

    I'd be interested in Cyclefree expanding on this.

    I think this is a really good point. I am gender critical - I don't believe a man can become a woman, even with hormones and surgery etc. Others will disagree. How that plays out at the BBC is a concern for some (what message should be given to children about gender dysphoria, homosexuality etc). With Gaza there are different viewpoints and also views that have changed over time. I thought the Israeli response to start with was reasonable but to me there is no doubt that they have gone too far, and will not be achieving their stated aims. Others will have been more anti Israel from early on, some might still think Israel should keep going. How does that play out?

    And at the heart of it is the licence fee. If I want to watch GB news I still have to pay the BBC. So while I am happy for GB news to be Reform TV, the BBC has to be more neutral. And its bloody hard.

    But @Cyclefree's point is about the response to criticism. And its this that is so familiar to all the other scandals.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,377
    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,142
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    No but there's already a review process in the BBC for bias, which is dealing with most or all of the genuine issues including the Panorama edit. This process appears to be much more rigorous and objective than Michael Prescott's hatchet job. So why not run with that?

    I have no problem with Prescott having a personal view of how he would like stories to be reported but it's concerning the BBC board have delegated overall editorial judgement to an outsider with an agenda.
    You can write to the BBC and complain. And the stock answer is usually "we think we got it about right". Ok this is mainly from the programme that used to be on on Sunday mornings, but the BBC editor or whoever would always say that phrase.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,027

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Schrödinger's prisoner; until you open the cell you don't know if he's there or not.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,587
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    In some three months, the Ukrainians have greatly reduced the Russian options for selling their crude oil to international sellers - the remaining options now being heavily hit - whilst very significantly reducing Russia's ability to refine or store crude oil. At the same time, the Ukrainians have been systematically destroying the abilty for Moscow especially to maintain electricity and heating going in to winter, to the point where another big push and what was already teetering through inadequate maintainence (often linked to corruption) will collpase.

    Remarkable. Putin will have traded the rubble of Pokrovsk (perhaps temporarily) for a working economy able to support military activity.

    Fair trade, says Ukraine.

    This is a crucially important point that I think is underappreciated. Russia is dependent on oil exports to pay for things. The army gets first dibs on oil, the civilian economy second, and only after that do they get to sell oil abroad. So, every time an oil pipeline goes boom, and cuts 50k barrels a day from Russian production, that's $5m a day they've lost.

    On top of this, there's another issue: Russia's oil fields are reliant on Western equipment to fight the decline curves. There really are no Russian or Chinese alternatives to Schlumberger and Halliburton. Which means Russian oil production - even before the strikes - is probably going to be dropping at 5% or so per year.

    And now the Russian government is attempting to 'buck the market' by ordering companies not to raise the price of oil to consumers, which never works well.
    I think the likes of Schlumberger (now SLB) are still operating in Russia, albeit they've reduced their presence. It's an example of an area where sanctions could be tightened further.

    Russian economic stress doesn't seem yet to have shown up where I'd expect it to. Reported inflation is high (8%) but hardly at hyperinflationary levels (and trending down with 16% interest rates). The currency has been remarkably stable over the medium-term.

    I appreciate there will be a tipping point, and all of the above can be managed via central bank policy/reserves until they can't. But I'd personally temper my expectations of said tipping point being reached over this winter.

    Bigger picture, I'm not sure Putin has a good "out" anymore. He hoped that Trump would be that, but he has been unable or unwilling to force a Putin-acceptable peace (/capitulation) on Ukraine. I fail to see a scenario where the next US President is more more favourable to Russian interests.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,228
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Would any PBer who knows about these things (I think we have a few) care to summarise how significant this sort of repeated attack might be for Russia and Putin?
    So: there are two subtly different issues.

    First, there is the impact on Russian domestic supplies of gasoline, kerosene and diesel that are used in the civilian and military economies. These are being badly affected by the refinery strikes. The best estimate (before last night's attacks) is that 38% of Russian refining capacity is offline. Now, there will be some slack in the system, so that doesn't mean production is down quite as much. But it is a massive number, and if it were to get any bigger, then ordinary Russians would suddenly find getting petrol increasingly difficult and expensive.

    Second, there is the impact on Russian sales abroad due to pipelines being blown up. This is probably a smaller issue in the short term, because Russia had lots of foreign reserves it can use. But over time it adds up. At some point those dry up, and that will severely hamper Russia's ability to buy the things it needs to keep fighting.

    I reckon the former issue is probably the bigger short term one. Because rising fuel prices can really screw over a lot of people, especially with winter coming.
    Agree with that, and will add that in category 1 there’s also attacks on power generation which is causing widespread but so far local blackouts, to add to the queuing and rationing of petrol and diesel. The bombed O&G and power facilities are difficult to repair because lot of parts are either not courted locally or on very long lead times.

    In the second category are also the Russian-owned facilities abroad which have stopped sending money back because of sanctions.

    The economic squeeze is as you say secondary at the moment, but the faster they go bankrupt the quicker the war ends. It will happen slowly and then all at once.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,729
    MaxPB said:

    The government should name Trevor Philips as new BBC DG, give him a licence to clean house and bring back impartiality.

    I think that is an excellent idea. I have a huge amount of time for Trevor Philips.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    Foss said:

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Schrödinger's prisoner; until you open the cell you don't know if he's there or not.
    Have they checked behind the big poster of Raquel Welch?
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 214

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    True- though that doesn't mean that the criticisms are wrong, or even silly. (Though some, like the 'where was the balancing documentary on what's bad about Harris?' surely were.)
    Yes agreed. The Panorama edit was poor but hardly a 'phone-hacking' level crime. You'd think maybe a retraction and apology would be in order.

    Surely the quickest remedy to resolve the BBC crisis would be to set up a McCarthy style Broadcasting House un-Conservative Activities Committee chaired by Robbie Gibb ensuring only Trump/Farage/Netanyahu adjacent journalists, presenters, comedians and managers are employed with Boris Johnson shoehorned in as DG.

    That would seem like all left-wing bias is removed at a stroke.

    P.S. Geoff Norcott and Jim Davidson as the new presenters of Strictly.

    And make Lawrence Fox the new Doctor Who.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,369
    edited 4:35PM

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    No but there's already a review process in the BBC for bias, which is dealing with most or all of the genuine issues including the Panorama edit. This process appears to be much more rigorous and objective than Michael Prescott's hatchet job. So why not run with that?

    I have no problem with Prescott having a personal view of how he would like stories to be reported but it's concerning the BBC board have delegated overall editorial judgement to an outsider with an agenda.
    They haven't delegated editorial judgement to an outsider.

    He wrote a report/memo on editorial judgement. Which, in among the partisan stuff, deals with a number of objective failures in meetings standards.

    Which is why people resigned.

    The sane approach is to prevent the same shit happening again.
    I accept the report mentions a couple of genuine failings - the Panorama edit, some of the reporting on Gaza - which are being dealt with through the proper process already. The "partisan stuff' is the problem. Not even because it is partisan - anyone can have a view - but because the board has decided to make it their totem.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,572
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    NEW: A distinguished female Navy captain within Naval Special Warfare — a Purple Heart recipient with experience w/ SEAL Team Six — was expected to take command this summer, when it was abruptly cancelled just days before. The impression within the NSW community: Secretary Hegseth did not want a woman fronting a role that would recruit special operations.

    Her career is now effectively over. ..

    https://x.com/halbritz/status/1988214146878292129

    The “impression within” doing quite a bit of heavy lifting in that article.
    Is it ?

    https://edition.cnn.com/2025/11/11/politics/hegseth-women-naval-commander-ousted
    ..Ranked the top officer for promotion in her cohort, she received a Purple Heart after being injured in an IED attack during a combat tour in Iraq. She then became the first woman to serve with SEAL Team Six in the role of troop commander, one of several senior positions within the squadrons that make up the elite naval unit.

    A formal ceremony marking her new position was planned for July. Invitations went out two months in advance.

    But just two weeks before the ceremony, her command was abruptly canceled with little explanation, according to multiple sources familiar with the situation. The decision didn’t come through formal channels but by a series of phone calls from the Pentagon, one of the sources said. The circumstances were unusual and seemed designed to omit a paper trail, according to multiple sources.

    Under the Navy’s “up or out” policy, with no command slot to take, the officer’s more than two-decade military career was effectively over..



    Who knows? CNN don’t. And we certainly don’t. Could be for any number of reasons. But let’s jump to conclusions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,228
    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Indeed, the Flamingos appear to be flying well.

    The other really interesting bit in the last couple of days is the European and Middle East operations of Lukoil and Rosneft being either taken over or nationalised by the countries in which they operate, depriving the companies of a significant flow of hard currency.
    Wasn't hard currency exchanged when those companies werre taken over/nationalised? Or were they simply expropriated?

    It appears at this stage to be mostly the latter. Any that are being sold are at fire-sale prices and probably not actually paid while the economic sanctions persist.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,792

    MaxPB said:

    The government should name Trevor Philips as new BBC DG, give him a licence to clean house and bring back impartiality.

    I think that is an excellent idea. I have a huge amount of time for Trevor Philips.
    iirc the BBC Board decides the DG?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,309
    Foss said:

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Schrödinger's prisoner; until you open the cell you don't know if he's there or not.
    Is this only a problem at prisons for men? I haven't noticed any stories about women prisoners being released by mistake.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,897
    MaxPB said:

    The government should name Trevor Philips as new BBC DG, give him a licence to clean house and bring back impartiality.

    I think the done thing is to name a former leader's comms adviser to the Board.

    Could be a tight race between Seamus Milne and Alaatair Campbell?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,729
    Ratters said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    In some three months, the Ukrainians have greatly reduced the Russian options for selling their crude oil to international sellers - the remaining options now being heavily hit - whilst very significantly reducing Russia's ability to refine or store crude oil. At the same time, the Ukrainians have been systematically destroying the abilty for Moscow especially to maintain electricity and heating going in to winter, to the point where another big push and what was already teetering through inadequate maintainence (often linked to corruption) will collpase.

    Remarkable. Putin will have traded the rubble of Pokrovsk (perhaps temporarily) for a working economy able to support military activity.

    Fair trade, says Ukraine.

    This is a crucially important point that I think is underappreciated. Russia is dependent on oil exports to pay for things. The army gets first dibs on oil, the civilian economy second, and only after that do they get to sell oil abroad. So, every time an oil pipeline goes boom, and cuts 50k barrels a day from Russian production, that's $5m a day they've lost.

    On top of this, there's another issue: Russia's oil fields are reliant on Western equipment to fight the decline curves. There really are no Russian or Chinese alternatives to Schlumberger and Halliburton. Which means Russian oil production - even before the strikes - is probably going to be dropping at 5% or so per year.

    And now the Russian government is attempting to 'buck the market' by ordering companies not to raise the price of oil to consumers, which never works well.
    I think the likes of Schlumberger (now SLB) are still operating in Russia, albeit they've reduced their presence. It's an example of an area where sanctions could be tightened further.

    Russian economic stress doesn't seem yet to have shown up where I'd expect it to. Reported inflation is high (8%) but hardly at hyperinflationary levels (and trending down with 16% interest rates). The currency has been remarkably stable over the medium-term.

    I appreciate there will be a tipping point, and all of the above can be managed via central bank policy/reserves until they can't. But I'd personally temper my expectations of said tipping point being reached over this winter.

    Bigger picture, I'm not sure Putin has a good "out" anymore. He hoped that Trump would be that, but he has been unable or unwilling to force a Putin-acceptable peace (/capitulation) on Ukraine. I fail to see a scenario where the next US President is more more favourable to Russian interests.
    Both Russia and CHina have spent decades in industrial espiionage getting the technology for modern oil exploration. Particularly things like Deep directional resistivity (which is about as close to magic as I have ever seen in science). Only a few years ago one of the DDR well placement specialists I had been working with for several years was caught red handed collecting information on new tool updates and algorithms and passing them back to China.

    Schlumberger and Haliburton have always been very careful about which tools they let into Chinese and Russian territory because they are so concerned about this.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,000

    Foss said:

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Schrödinger's prisoner; until you open the cell you don't know if he's there or not.
    Have they checked behind the big poster of Raquel Welch?
    Not until they make a clean breast of all of it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,377
    AnneJGP said:

    Foss said:

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Schrödinger's prisoner; until you open the cell you don't know if he's there or not.
    Is this only a problem at prisons for men? I haven't noticed any stories about women prisoners being released by mistake.
    Women are only 4% of the prison population.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,729

    MaxPB said:

    The government should name Trevor Philips as new BBC DG, give him a licence to clean house and bring back impartiality.

    I think that is an excellent idea. I have a huge amount of time for Trevor Philips.
    iirc the BBC Board decides the DG?
    Indeed. And I am not sure Philips would be the government's choice anyway. Doesn't stop him being an excellent candidate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,415
    AnneJGP said:

    Foss said:

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Schrödinger's prisoner; until you open the cell you don't know if he's there or not.
    Is this only a problem at prisons for men? I haven't noticed any stories about women prisoners being released by mistake.
    Not so many female prisoners ... and not so many of those are (a) illegal immigrants and (b) sex criminals. So they DO NOT COUNT for the DM or DT.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,817

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    They kinda see it, except they’ve inserted ’forces of’ between ‘the’ and ‘right’. Gives them a warm, virtuous feeling while cackling manically over an institution they loathe getting a kicking.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,863

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    True- though that doesn't mean that the criticisms are wrong, or even silly. (Though some, like the 'where was the balancing documentary on what's bad about Harris?' surely were.)
    Yes agreed. The Panorama edit was poor but hardly a 'phone-hacking' level crime. You'd think maybe a retraction and apology would be in order.
    I'm reminded of a comment made by a Private Eye hack that many newspaper corrections add to the inaccuracy of the newspaper publishing the correction. (Yes, that seems paradoxical, but consider that the correction will be steered by one participant in the story.)

    I suspect that the Prescott report, by highlighting certain imbalances that some people see in BBC coverage, is having much the same effect.
    Classic attacking the messenger there. Basically there are far too many people on here who either believe the BBC can do no wrong or, if they do wrong it is only against people you don't like anyway do it doesn’t matter.

    You are just another bunch of apologists for your own special interests and it is amusing that you end up using many of the excuses Cyclefree highlights in her excellent article.
    Cyclefree lists a bunch of things she's not really going to allow in defence of the BBC. Well that's like charging someone with a crime and then saying we're not allowing any of the usual defences like an alibi, CCTV, DNA evidence, witness statements, lack of motivation or opportunity, etc.

    Just because @Cyclefree has listed them in a pre-emptive strike, it doesn't invalidate genuinely important points. Indeed most of her headlines have some validity in this case.

    Most of all this was without doubt: 3. An attack by those with an agenda.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,155

    MaxPB said:

    The government should name Trevor Philips as new BBC DG, give him a licence to clean house and bring back impartiality.

    I think that is an excellent idea. I have a huge amount of time for Trevor Philips.
    Good afternoon

    He is the outstanding political journalist of the media and he would be a perfect fit if he wanted it
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    You would expect a report on bias in an organisation to be objective, and not itself to be massively biased. That's why I think the BBC board engaging a partisan hack as its bias consultant is a bigger problem than any of the issues he has identified. Any big organisation has issues that get resolved some how, but a leadership guided by consultants not acting in good faith is a leadership seriously adrift, in my view.

    The idea that there's a room full of Plato's Philosopher Kings wing to be released upon the world to give us Pure Impartiality is... improbable.

    In the real world, you get biases. It's a bit like working with a mill or lathe. Nothing is perfectly true. But with clever techniques, you can used a lathe to make *a more accurate lathe*.
    No but there's already a review process in the BBC for bias, which is dealing with most or all of the genuine issues including the Panorama edit. This process appears to be much more rigorous and objective than Michael Prescott's hatchet job. So why not run with that?

    I have no problem with Prescott having a personal view of how he would like stories to be reported but it's concerning the BBC board have delegated overall editorial judgement to an outsider with an agenda.
    They haven't delegated editorial judgement to an outsider.

    He wrote a report/memo on editorial judgement. Which, in among the partisan stuff, deals with a number of objective failures in meetings standards.

    Which is why people resigned.

    The sane approach is to prevent the same shit happening again.
    I accept the report mentions a couple of genuine failings - the Panorama edit, some of the reporting on Gaza - which are being dealt with through the proper process already. The "partisan stuff' is the problem. Not even because it is partisan - anyone can have a view - but because the board has decided to make it their totem.
    The problem is that "The Proper Process" is reactive and after the event.

    What is needed is to prevent them happening again. Which means changing behaviour.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,445

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Let's have him stand in for Starmer again at PMQs tomorrow. Would be a hoot...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,837

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Your joking....not another one.....

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,362

    Sadly it is, without doubt, “an attack by those with an agenda.”

    This is not some staff member within the organisation whistleblowing.

    Those who can't see that it's part of a concerted cultural attack by the right just don't want to see.

    True- though that doesn't mean that the criticisms are wrong, or even silly. (Though some, like the 'where was the balancing documentary on what's bad about Harris?' surely were.)
    Yes agreed. The Panorama edit was poor but hardly a 'phone-hacking' level crime. You'd think maybe a retraction and apology would be in order.
    I'm reminded of a comment made by a Private Eye hack that many newspaper corrections add to the inaccuracy of the newspaper publishing the correction. (Yes, that seems paradoxical, but consider that the correction will be steered by one participant in the story.)

    I suspect that the Prescott report, by highlighting certain imbalances that some people see in BBC coverage, is having much the same effect.
    Classic attacking the messenger there. Basically there are far too many people on here who either believe the BBC can do no wrong or, if they do wrong it is only against people you don't like anyway do it doesn’t matter.

    You are just another bunch of apologists for your own special interests and it is amusing that you end up using many of the excuses Cyclefree highlights in her excellent article.
    Cyclefree lists a bunch of things she's not really going to allow in defence of the BBC. Well that's like charging someone with a crime and then saying we're not allowing any of the usual defences like an alibi, CCTV, DNA evidence, witness statements, lack of motivation or opportunity, etc.

    Just because @Cyclefree has listed them in a pre-emptive strike, it doesn't invalidate genuinely important points. Indeed most of her headlines have some validity in this case.

    Most of all this was without doubt: 3. An attack by those with an agenda.
    The so-called defences, that @Cyclefree are disallowing, are the generic bullshit reactions of organisations trying to shrug off problems.

    Sorry, Timmy, you can't use "The Dog Ate My Homework" as an excuse.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,572
    edited 4:47PM

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1988274649830928799?s=46

    BREAKING:

    David Lammy admits that another prisoner may have been released in error **last week** on November 3. The prison service is investigating. Amazingly it doesn't actually know if the prisoner is still at large

    Let's have him stand in for Starmer again at PMQs tomorrow. Would be a hoot...
    Lamminator 2.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,684
    edited 4:47PM
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Indeed, the Flamingos appear to be flying well.

    The other really interesting bit in the last couple of days is the European and Middle East operations of Lukoil and Rosneft being either taken over or nationalised by the countries in which they operate, depriving the companies of a significant flow of hard currency.
    The question with the flamingos is still ultimate accuracy afaics.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srWdFKi50us

    (Crater on the beach not the target?)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,445
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Not even trying to hide it, they’re casually smoking in the middle of the day now.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1988223117421146475

    "Orsknefteorgsintez" Oil Refinery, Orsk, Russia.

    They hit the Saratov oil refinery last night too.

    Hopefully the Ukrainians can keep chipping away at Russia's oil infrastructure and supply,
    Indeed, the Flamingos appear to be flying well.

    The other really interesting bit in the last couple of days is the European and Middle East operations of Lukoil and Rosneft being either taken over or nationalised by the countries in which they operate, depriving the companies of a significant flow of hard currency.
    The Flamingos are still a bit basic, prone to wander off course. But if they get close to the target, they make one hell of a mess.

    They will get better refined - probably in weeks.
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