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Like a slow motion Liz Truss – politicalbetting.com

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  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On BBC:


    The central character in this is Robbie Gibb. The former Conservative press secretary at 10 Downing Street, appointed to the BBC Board by Boris Johnson’s government in 2021, has for the last four years worked to dismantle what he sees as the liberal bias in the BBC. Generally, board directors do not weigh in on decisions about who is being appointed to edit which programme or the choice of stories and their running order on the news. Gibb has.

    Gibb’s supporters say he is trying to save the BBC from itself; he was also heard last year to say that if he didn’t get his way, he would “blow the place up”.

    https://observer.co.uk/opinion-and-ideas/leaders/article/the-observer-view-political-interference-at-the-bbc



    Once again the baleful legacy of Johnson's term in office still haunts the country.

    Who'd have thought one of the Beegees would be running the BBC :o
    It's a Tragedy.
    They need to take Steps to rebuild trust.
    Puns incoming in 5, 6, 7, 8...
    That one is Better Best Forgotten
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,652

    PJH said:

    kinabalu said:

    This 'BBC is seriously biased to the Left' is an obvious load of wank, isn't it. What we have here is a concerted attempt at political interference from bad actors on the Right. People who want to cow and control the BBC or failing that kill it off. A potentially successful attempt too, judging by how things are going. But it's not over yet. The BBC and all those who value it (for all its faults the most trusted source of news and info in the world) need to recognize the threat and fight fight fight against it. Fight like hell or we won't have a quality, non-partisan public broadcaster anymore.

    Personally, I've always felt the BBC has had two biases:

    Although it does give both views as a rule, there has always been a clear right wing bias (perhaps - I mean conservative) in selection and framing overall. Recently the migration debate has illustrated this well. The current fixation with Farage and Reform is an unusually obvious example of this. (By comparison, how often are people like Corbyn and Sultana on the Today programme, for example?)

    Secondly, it tends to be deferential to government. This was obvious during Covid, when it rarely challenged the government line.

    Taken together, it means that its right wing bias is usually less obvious when there is a Labour government and the two biases largely cancel each other out. The BBC's weird fixation with Reform (and also very soft pedalling on Trump) is unusual with an incumbent Labour government.

    However, I wonder whether the timing of this eruption is more down to Israel/Gaza than anything? The BBC is unquestionably biased to Palestine in its coverage and they definitely have big problems with their Arabic service. I note that the Today programme avoided it completely this morning. This isn't really a left/right issue, just a choice between different nationalisms (FWIW I support neither).

    If Your Party ends up with the 6 Independent Alliance MPs and polling 30% I expect you will see it more often on the BBC. Reform appears to be the most popular party in the country at the moment
    The majority of Farage's appearance on eg QT were before Reform existed.
    Still, I'm sure there's no causation there.
    At a quick inspection, Farage has had 6 appearances since RefUK was founded in November 2018, including 3 since June 2024.

    He's not at the top of the list. But him, Tice, Yusuf, and Goodwin are all on 2 or 3 appearances, which seems overweight for what they are. OTOH there is only a minibus of them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,807
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    LOL Farage exception.

    Our rules are clear that politicians may not present news programmes unless exceptionally justified and our recently updated guidance puts this beyond doubt.
    https://x.com/Ofcom/status/1987557600951488992

    GB News is Reform TV.

    I've heard Camilla Tominey commenting words to that effect, in addition to it being blatantly obvious.
    A perfect balance to Channel4 News and Channel4 which is Your Party/Zak attack central. They’ve even commissioned Wealth Tax fanatic Gary Stevenson to make a documentary about a Wealth Tax. I’m sure that will be even handed and impartial 🙄
    I really hate this modern trend that so many "documentataries" are hosted by a celeb or a campaigner.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,428

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    Much more worrying than anything to do with Trump is that the BBC has clearly been shutting down internal dissent over it's clear pro-transgender editorial stance. I couldn't give two fucks about Trump and whatever the BBC did in post with his speech. I very much care that the national broadcaster is pushing pro-transgender ideology and ignoring biological fact in favour of nonsense. That is a very clear dereliction of duty and every single person in that LGBT editorial group should be sacked immediately by the new DG and all internal pressure groups disbanded. Enough is enough.

    #pbfreespeech
    BTW I totally agree with your take on Ncuti Gatwa and Dr Who. I suspect he’s an unfairly maligned young man who did his best with a crap hand.
    I thought both he and Jodie Whittaker were and are excellent actors let down by terrible writing and an apparent determination to detsroy the canon that has sustained the series for so long. They could have done wonders with both actors if they had been given a chance with some decent story lines written by people who actualy understood the series.
    Sorry, but Jodie Whittaker just couldn't run. Core skill as a Doctor - running away.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,242

    I'm still baffled by the flap over the edit.

    In no way did they frame Trump or make false claims or even suggestions about what he did. There's so many things to complain about with the Beeb. This isn't one of them

    Oh yes it is.
  • Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    They have surely figured out by now the licence fee is a trap. Revenue from it is only going to go down, with broadcast TV an irrelevance for more and more people as time goes by.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Taz said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    Much more worrying than anything to do with Trump is that the BBC has clearly been shutting down internal dissent over it's clear pro-transgender editorial stance. I couldn't give two fucks about Trump and whatever the BBC did in post with his speech. I very much care that the national broadcaster is pushing pro-transgender ideology and ignoring biological fact in favour of nonsense. That is a very clear dereliction of duty and every single person in that LGBT editorial group should be sacked immediately by the new DG and all internal pressure groups disbanded. Enough is enough.

    #pbfreespeech
    BTW I totally agree with your take on Ncuti Gatwa and Dr Who. I suspect he’s an unfairly maligned young man who did his best with a crap hand.
    I thought both he and Jodie Whittaker were and are excellent actors let down by terrible writing and an apparent determination to detsroy the canon that has sustained the series for so long. They could have done wonders with both actors if they had been given a chance with some decent story lines written by people who actualy understood the series.
    Chibnall and RTD really have no excuse either. Both have been fans for many years and both have written for the show previously

    Both Whittaker and Gatwa were a break from the usual white guy in the role and neither was really given the chance to make their mark with it.

    Lost opportunity in both cases.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,807
    President Trump has granted pre-emptive pardons to Rudolph W. Giuliani and others accused of trying to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, according to an official familiar with the matter.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,384
    Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    If you split it into commercial and news wings (both institutionally independent) you could have a publicly-funded news option headed by an editor-in-chief and a commercial wing backed by subscription and allowed to be run in a different way. That commercial wing could also have access to some grants to ensure the continued development of novel programming/talent that otherwise wouldn’t be made.

    The problem is that the BBC doesn’t really make much sense as an organisation in 2025. If you - like me - think there is some merit in retaining a publicly funded news broadcaster then unshackle BBC News from the rest of the edifice and let it focus on broadcasting and journalistic excellence.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    President Trump has granted pre-emptive pardons to Rudolph W. Giuliani and others accused of trying to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, according to an official familiar with the matter.

    I’m guessing that’s bad but when Joe Biden granted pre-emptive pardons to people, including his fsmily, that was good 🤔
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191

    Another ‘deported’ migrant under the ‘one in, one out’ deal has returned to the UK in a small boat among the 1500 new arrivals in the past few days.

    LOL this idea isn’t working is it?

    I’m convinced that the options at this point are either a version of Rwanda or building a large camp on Ascencion Island.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,807
    A woman who was stabbed in the neck in an unprovoked attack at a bus stop in Birmingham has died, police have confirmed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,137
    Sky

    ICC looking at a blanket ban on transgender women competing in women's sport
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191
    Taz said:

    President Trump has granted pre-emptive pardons to Rudolph W. Giuliani and others accused of trying to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, according to an official familiar with the matter.

    I’m guessing that’s bad but when Joe Biden granted pre-emptive pardons to people, including his fsmily, that was good 🤔
    At some point the US is going to have to row back from this political lawfare. Sadly I fear it’ll take a while.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,137

    A woman who was stabbed in the neck in an unprovoked attack at a bus stop in Birmingham has died, police have confirmed.

    Terrible and so sad for her family and friends
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    If you split it into commercial and news wings (both institutionally independent) you could have a publicly-funded news option headed by an editor-in-chief and a commercial wing backed by subscription and allowed to be run in a different way. That commercial wing could also have access to some grants to ensure the continued development of novel programming/talent that otherwise wouldn’t be made.

    The problem is that the BBC doesn’t really make much sense as an organisation in 2025. If you - like me - think there is some merit in retaining a publicly funded news broadcaster then unshackle BBC News from the rest of the edifice and let it focus on broadcasting and journalistic excellence.
    Strip,the public service element from the, effectively, commercialised BBC main channels both TV and Radio, and allow any broadcaster who wants to to apply for funding to provide the service.

    Why should stuff like The Traitors, Strictly, or Masterchef be funded from a tax on owning a TV set and receiving live signals enforced by an intrusive collection regime and people falling foul of it prosecuted under the awful SJP.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Sky

    ICC looking at a blanket ban on transgender women competing in women's sport

    Which ICC ? The cricket one ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,395

    PJH said:

    kinabalu said:

    This 'BBC is seriously biased to the Left' is an obvious load of wank, isn't it. What we have here is a concerted attempt at political interference from bad actors on the Right. People who want to cow and control the BBC or failing that kill it off. A potentially successful attempt too, judging by how things are going. But it's not over yet. The BBC and all those who value it (for all its faults the most trusted source of news and info in the world) need to recognize the threat and fight fight fight against it. Fight like hell or we won't have a quality, non-partisan public broadcaster anymore.

    Personally, I've always felt the BBC has had two biases:

    Although it does give both views as a rule, there has always been a clear right wing bias (perhaps - I mean conservative) in selection and framing overall. Recently the migration debate has illustrated this well. The current fixation with Farage and Reform is an unusually obvious example of this. (By comparison, how often are people like Corbyn and Sultana on the Today programme, for example?)

    Secondly, it tends to be deferential to government. This was obvious during Covid, when it rarely challenged the government line.

    Taken together, it means that its right wing bias is usually less obvious when there is a Labour government and the two biases largely cancel each other out. The BBC's weird fixation with Reform (and also very soft pedalling on Trump) is unusual with an incumbent Labour government.

    However, I wonder whether the timing of this eruption is more down to Israel/Gaza than anything? The BBC is unquestionably biased to Palestine in its coverage and they definitely have big problems with their Arabic service. I note that the Today programme avoided it completely this morning. This isn't really a left/right issue, just a choice between different nationalisms (FWIW I support neither).

    I think the BBC is a bit right biased but since a lot of righties thing it's left biased, I am willing to conclude that anything not echoing your own view is likely to seem biased the other way.

    I do genuinely think it tries to be neutral most times and succeeds more often than not.

    Sadly, its days are probably numbered - another great British institution trashed in the pursuit of political and financial goals by people who really only give a shit about themselves and their family.
    As long as Labour remain in power the BBC should be OK and keep the licence fee, if Farage got in he would certainly end the licence fee if Reform led a government.

    To prepare for that possibility the BBC should start charging for iplayer use and allow paid adverts by companies in its most popular programmes like Strictly and Eastenders, even if Farage doesn't win it would be sensible to do so
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191
    First signs of an organised campaign:
    https://x.com/harrystebbings/status/1987829015248277861

    They have a domain name and everything.
    https://www.no-exit-tax.co.uk/
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,384
    edited 1:19PM
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    If you split it into commercial and news wings (both institutionally independent) you could have a publicly-funded news option headed by an editor-in-chief and a commercial wing backed by subscription and allowed to be run in a different way. That commercial wing could also have access to some grants to ensure the continued development of novel programming/talent that otherwise wouldn’t be made.

    The problem is that the BBC doesn’t really make much sense as an organisation in 2025. If you - like me - think there is some merit in retaining a publicly funded news broadcaster then unshackle BBC News from the rest of the edifice and let it focus on broadcasting and journalistic excellence.
    Strip,the public service element from the, effectively, commercialised BBC main channels both TV and Radio, and allow any broadcaster who wants to to apply for funding to provide the service.

    Why should stuff like The Traitors, Strictly, or Masterchef be funded from a tax on owning a TV set and receiving live signals enforced by an intrusive collection regime and people falling foul of it prosecuted under the awful SJP.
    Well, quite.

    One of the things that seems to take up a lot of time and energy at the BBC is its constant effort to justify its commercial programming, and its retention of talent.

    If you start from the premise that part of the BBC is now a fundamentally commercial endeavour then it makes little sense for it not to be run and funded commercially. It can then hire whoever it likes and broadcast whatever it wants, and it can charge subscribers whatever it is able to justify.

    Leave the public service news programming to be run and funded independently and let it focus on getting that right.

    If that avoids the rather ludicrous situation we have now where its news wing increasingly cross-promotes its commercial programming, even better.
  • Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    I can see this government going with some sort on enforced payment via council tax.
    I guess it would be about 8% on the average Band D Council Tax, on top of the 5%. Probably ain't gonna happen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,395
    edited 1:22PM
    'With Maurice Glasman and Dominic Lawson calling for the return of the stocks, we found most Britons strongly opposed - although Reform voters are divided'

    All Britons: 21% support / 72% oppose

    Lib Dem: 12% / 85%
    Labour: 12% / 83%
    Green: 13% / 82%
    Con: 28% / 64%
    Reform: 43% / 48%

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1986763098330460533?s=20

    'Few Britons support the return of corporal punishment, but there is a narrow lead for bringing back capital punishment'

    The stocks
    Support: 21%
    Oppose: 72%

    Flogging
    Support: 17%
    Oppose: 76%

    Death penalty
    Support: 50%
    Oppose: 45%

    Support for bringing back the death penalty, by 2024 vote

    Reform: 82%
    Con: 67%
    Labour: 35%
    Lib Dem: 30%
    Green: 26%
    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1986763102604366083?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,395
    'With reports that some parents and children are suing the government calling for a blanket smartphone ban in schools, our polling previously found...

    -79% think phones should be banned in schools
    -65% of Britons say there should be a single policy for all schools, rather than left for heads to decide (27%)'
    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1987864737741168693?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,945
    Pulpstar said:

    On BBC:


    The central character in this is Robbie Gibb. The former Conservative press secretary at 10 Downing Street, appointed to the BBC Board by Boris Johnson’s government in 2021, has for the last four years worked to dismantle what he sees as the liberal bias in the BBC. Generally, board directors do not weigh in on decisions about who is being appointed to edit which programme or the choice of stories and their running order on the news. Gibb has.

    Gibb’s supporters say he is trying to save the BBC from itself; he was also heard last year to say that if he didn’t get his way, he would “blow the place up”.

    https://observer.co.uk/opinion-and-ideas/leaders/article/the-observer-view-political-interference-at-the-bbc



    Once again the baleful legacy of Johnson's term in office still haunts the country.

    Who'd have thought one of the Beegees would be running the BBC :o
    One imagines him at board meetings delivering his devious right-wing machinations in a funky R'n'B falsetto.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,306

    Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    I can see this government going with some sort on enforced payment via council tax.
    The BBC itself were keen on a Digital Tax - x per Mb from the ISPs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095
    HYUFD said:

    'With Maurice Glasman and Dominic Lawson calling for the return of the stocks, we found most Britons strongly opposed - although Reform voters are divided'

    All Britons: 21% support / 72% oppose

    Lib Dem: 12% / 85%
    Labour: 12% / 83%
    Green: 13% / 82%
    Con: 28% / 64%
    Reform: 43% / 48%

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1986763098330460533?s=20

    'Few Britons support the return of corporal punishment, but there is a narrow lead for bringing back capital punishment'

    The stocks
    Support: 21%
    Oppose: 72%

    Flogging
    Support: 17%
    Oppose: 76%

    Death penalty
    Support: 50%
    Oppose: 45%

    Support for bringing back the death penalty, by 2024 vote

    Reform: 82%
    Con: 67%
    Labour: 35%
    Lib Dem: 30%
    Green: 26%
    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1986763102604366083?s=20

    I’m sure all the people keen to cite polls to support their worldview will ignore the one on the death penalty.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,242
    This guy Shah just doesn't get it. He is peddling the mistake line. Noone bar a few hard lefties will believe that. It was deliberate and disgraceful.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    I can see this government going with some sort on enforced payment via council tax.
    The BBC itself were keen on a Digital Tax - x per Mb from the ISPs.
    They’re keen on any means of funding that means they don’t have to compete in the open market.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,462
    Sandpit said:

    Another ‘deported’ migrant under the ‘one in, one out’ deal has returned to the UK in a small boat among the 1500 new arrivals in the past few days.

    LOL this idea isn’t working is it?

    I’m convinced that the options at this point are either a version of Rwanda or building a large camp on Ascencion Island.
    'One in, one out' implemented properly would work.

    Implemented properly, it would be us sending 1500 arrivals back over the next few days.

    1500 in, 1 out, will never work.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,807

    This guy Shah just doesn't get it. He is peddling the mistake line. Noone bar a few hard lefties will believe that. It was deliberate and disgraceful.

    It was a classic non-apology apology.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,623
    Taz said:

    Sky

    ICC looking at a blanket ban on transgender women competing in women's sport

    Which ICC ? The cricket one ?
    It could be the International Convention Centre (Wales), which is in Newport and the site of the RSS Conference in 2027.

    Or perhaps not. :)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,137
    Taz said:

    Sky

    ICC looking at a blanket ban on transgender women competing in women's sport

    Which ICC ? The cricket one ?
    Sorry IOC

    https://news.sky.com/story/olympics-organisers-moving-towards-blanket-ban-on-transgender-women-from-womens-sport-13467845
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,242
    Labour is very fortunate that the BBC black cat was thrown onto the table to divert away from this appallingly incompetent Govt.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,428

    Labour is very fortunate that the BBC black cat was thrown onto the table to divert away from this appallingly incompetent Govt.

    A very temporary distraction. We'll be back on how crap Starmer and Reeves are by teatime...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114

    Labour is very fortunate that the BBC black cat was thrown onto the table to divert away from this appallingly incompetent Govt.

    A very temporary distraction. We'll be back on how crap Starmer and Reeves are by teatime...
    Budget's coming soon isn't it? Is it before or after Black Friday?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,945
    Nigelb said:

    I'm still baffled by the flap over the edit.

    In no way did they frame Trump or make false claims or even suggestions about what he did. There's so many things to complain about with the Beeb. This isn't one of them

    It isn't really the edit which underlies all this.
    That was just the trigger.
    The leak of an internal BBC report (prepared by a guy with his own agenda) to the Telegraph was more instrumental.

    The BBC board was then deadlocked on how to respond, which meant the BBC no-commenting for days on end. That clearly became untenable for the two who resigned (and they may have done so in attempt to resolve the ongoing mess).
    Is it known who at the Beeb commissioned the report?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,384

    Labour is very fortunate that the BBC black cat was thrown onto the table to divert away from this appallingly incompetent Govt.

    A very temporary distraction. We'll be back on how crap Starmer and Reeves are by teatime...
    We’re still over 2 weeks out from the budget.

    What a tortuous run up this has been.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,927
    edited 1:35PM
    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191

    Taz said:

    Sky

    ICC looking at a blanket ban on transgender women competing in women's sport

    Which ICC ? The cricket one ?
    Sorry IOC

    https://news.sky.com/story/olympics-organisers-moving-towards-blanket-ban-on-transgender-women-from-womens-sport-13467845
    IIRC someone in Trump’s administration said over the summer that there might be visa issues for such athletes…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,137

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    There is no other subject across the media today

    Lammy must hope it continues into tomorrow when he appears at the dispatch box for justice questions !!!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,137
    Sky

    Trump threatens legal action in a letter to the BBC

    This is a nightmare for them and so idiotic that they only have themselves to blame
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Labour is very fortunate that the BBC black cat was thrown onto the table to divert away from this appallingly incompetent Govt.

    A very temporary distraction. We'll be back on how crap Starmer and Reeves are by teatime...
    Budget's coming soon isn't it? Is it before or after Black Friday?
    A few days before although from our trip to the shops yesterday the Black Friday sales have already started !
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,681
    This is why I could never vote Reform.



    FFS, look at the state of those shoes.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,803

    PJH said:

    kinabalu said:

    This 'BBC is seriously biased to the Left' is an obvious load of wank, isn't it. What we have here is a concerted attempt at political interference from bad actors on the Right. People who want to cow and control the BBC or failing that kill it off. A potentially successful attempt too, judging by how things are going. But it's not over yet. The BBC and all those who value it (for all its faults the most trusted source of news and info in the world) need to recognize the threat and fight fight fight against it. Fight like hell or we won't have a quality, non-partisan public broadcaster anymore.

    Personally, I've always felt the BBC has had two biases:

    Although it does give both views as a rule, there has always been a clear right wing bias (perhaps - I mean conservative) in selection and framing overall. Recently the migration debate has illustrated this well. The current fixation with Farage and Reform is an unusually obvious example of this. (By comparison, how often are people like Corbyn and Sultana on the Today programme, for example?)

    Secondly, it tends to be deferential to government. This was obvious during Covid, when it rarely challenged the government line.

    Taken together, it means that its right wing bias is usually less obvious when there is a Labour government and the two biases largely cancel each other out. The BBC's weird fixation with Reform (and also very soft pedalling on Trump) is unusual with an incumbent Labour government.

    However, I wonder whether the timing of this eruption is more down to Israel/Gaza than anything? The BBC is unquestionably biased to Palestine in its coverage and they definitely have big problems with their Arabic service. I note that the Today programme avoided it completely this morning. This isn't really a left/right issue, just a choice between different nationalisms (FWIW I support neither).

    If Your Party ends up with the 6 Independent Alliance MPs and polling 30% I expect you will see it more often on the BBC. Reform appears to be the most popular party in the country at the moment
    The majority of Farage's appearance on eg QT were before Reform existed.
    Still, I'm sure there's no causation there.
    I find this pre-occupation with the number of times Farage jhas appeared on QT to be rather amusing.

    Farage is 6th on the all time list of the number of times he has apeared as a guest on the programme. And 4th in terms of number of times per year.

    You would think from all the clamour that he appears every other week, or even every other month. In fact he has appeared on the programme 38 times in 24 years at an average of 1.5 times per year. This is the same number of appearences and the same average per year as Michael Heseltine.

    Kenneth Clarke made the most appearences - 59 times in 37 years at an average of 1.6 times a year.

    Shirley Williams has the second highest number of appearences but the highest number per year - 58 times in 35 years at an average of 1.7

    Then Ming Campbell (47), Harriet Harmen (45) and Charles Kennedy (44).

    If you want to make any claim based on that list then it would be that overwhelmingly their was a massive imbalance in favour of pro-EU guests.

    Of course the real reason is that they were articulate, passionate and entertaining, whether you agreed with them or not.
    QT guests articulate, passionate & entertaining, shome mishtake shirley?
    Ah, most of them are dead, fair enough.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114
    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    Yep - the dossier as a whole is damning. If I didn't know better I'd almost suggest the BBC is attempting damage limitation by focussing so much on Trump...
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,823
    edited 1:46PM
    Sandpit said:

    First signs of an organised campaign:
    https://x.com/harrystebbings/status/1987829015248277861

    They have a domain name and everything.
    https://www.no-exit-tax.co.uk/

    They don't want to do this. Most people won't be aware you can piss off to Monaco et al and pay no capital gains on assets acquired while working in the UK. The more this is publicised the more Reeves will have to squash the tax exiles.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,915
    Black Friday is the day between Thanksgiving, last Thursday in November (mandatory family gathering) and the weekend. Therefore most people free to shop for Xmas.
    It is, therefore, the most egregious of Americanisms.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095

    Sky

    Trump threatens legal action in a letter to the BBC

    This is a nightmare for them and so idiotic that they only have themselves to blame

    I see Joey Deacon has found his crayons and gone into bat for the BBC.

    https://x.com/edwardjdavey/status/1987843483349000328?s=61
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114
    Taz said:

    Labour is very fortunate that the BBC black cat was thrown onto the table to divert away from this appallingly incompetent Govt.

    A very temporary distraction. We'll be back on how crap Starmer and Reeves are by teatime...
    Budget's coming soon isn't it? Is it before or after Black Friday?
    A few days before although from our trip to the shops yesterday the Black Friday sales have already started !
    I see elsewhere that is now morphing into Black Month (at least one shop).

    So what started out as a very specific sale in one country that celebrates a historic day from its past has now spread over the Atlantic and become an entire month of sales in a country what doesn't celebrate that day.

    Madness.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,623

    Sandpit said:

    First signs of an organised campaign:
    https://x.com/harrystebbings/status/1987829015248277861

    They have a domain name and everything.
    https://www.no-exit-tax.co.uk/

    They don't want to do this. Most people won't be aware you can piss off to Monaco et al and pay no capital gains on assets acquired while working in the UK. The more this is publicised the more Reeves will have to squash the tax exiles.
    If you can't tax people, you can't have a sovereign state.

    I am sympathetic to people who state the Govt spends too much, but that doesn't alter the fact that the tax base has developed a leak. Exit taxes (UK) or a system where citizens abroad still pay income tax (USA?) address this problem, unlike other policies which just squeak "Growth! Growth!" in the hope that that fixes things.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,945

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    They like to flagellate themselves in public when they've been caught short.

    This has resonances of the Gilligan Iraq affair. Instead of Campbell we have Trump.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,925
    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191
    edited 1:56PM

    Sandpit said:

    First signs of an organised campaign:
    https://x.com/harrystebbings/status/1987829015248277861

    They have a domain name and everything.
    https://www.no-exit-tax.co.uk/

    They don't want to do this. Most people won't be aware you can piss off to Monaco et al and pay no capital gains on assets acquired while working in the UK. The more this is publicised the more Reeves will have to squash the tax exiles.
    Except that those who are aware of it, are the mobile HNWs and investors who keep quiet and just rearrange their affairs ahead of the Budget to have US/UAE/Monaco topcos, and Rachel realises far too late that she’s just lost billions of investment pounds.

    That’s before we start on the investment income that never arrives in the first place.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,580
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191
    edited 2:00PM
    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
    The BBC needs to sue him first in the US, where the high “Actual Malice” standard of defamation applies. Even with that high bar, it’s difficult to defend what they actually broadcast.

    A London libel court would throw the book at the BBC.

    Looks like the licence fee payers will be contributing to that new ballroom in Washington.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,395
    'Former French president Nicolas Sarkozy is set to leave prison later today following an appeal court hearing.

    Sarkozy, 70, who will be placed on judicial supervision, will also be banned from leaving French territory, the court said. An appeal trial is expected to take place in March.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15276195/Glum-faced-Carla-Bruni-leaves-appeal-court-listening-Nicolas-Sarkozy-whines-freed-jail-life-prison-hard.html

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,786
    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,687

    PJH said:

    kinabalu said:

    This 'BBC is seriously biased to the Left' is an obvious load of wank, isn't it. What we have here is a concerted attempt at political interference from bad actors on the Right. People who want to cow and control the BBC or failing that kill it off. A potentially successful attempt too, judging by how things are going. But it's not over yet. The BBC and all those who value it (for all its faults the most trusted source of news and info in the world) need to recognize the threat and fight fight fight against it. Fight like hell or we won't have a quality, non-partisan public broadcaster anymore.

    Personally, I've always felt the BBC has had two biases:

    Although it does give both views as a rule, there has always been a clear right wing bias (perhaps - I mean conservative) in selection and framing overall. Recently the migration debate has illustrated this well. The current fixation with Farage and Reform is an unusually obvious example of this. (By comparison, how often are people like Corbyn and Sultana on the Today programme, for example?)

    Secondly, it tends to be deferential to government. This was obvious during Covid, when it rarely challenged the government line.

    Taken together, it means that its right wing bias is usually less obvious when there is a Labour government and the two biases largely cancel each other out. The BBC's weird fixation with Reform (and also very soft pedalling on Trump) is unusual with an incumbent Labour government.

    However, I wonder whether the timing of this eruption is more down to Israel/Gaza than anything? The BBC is unquestionably biased to Palestine in its coverage and they definitely have big problems with their Arabic service. I note that the Today programme avoided it completely this morning. This isn't really a left/right issue, just a choice between different nationalisms (FWIW I support neither).

    If Your Party ends up with the 6 Independent Alliance MPs and polling 30% I expect you will see it more often on the BBC. Reform appears to be the most popular party in the country at the moment
    The majority of Farage's appearance on eg QT were before Reform existed.
    Still, I'm sure there's no causation there.
    I find this pre-occupation with the number of times Farage jhas appeared on QT to be rather amusing.

    Farage is 6th on the all time list of the number of times he has apeared as a guest on the programme. And 4th in terms of number of times per year.

    You would think from all the clamour that he appears every other week, or even every other month. In fact he has appeared on the programme 38 times in 24 years at an average of 1.5 times per year. This is the same number of appearences and the same average per year as Michael Heseltine.

    Kenneth Clarke made the most appearences - 59 times in 37 years at an average of 1.6 times a year.

    Shirley Williams has the second highest number of appearences but the highest number per year - 58 times in 35 years at an average of 1.7

    Then Ming Campbell (47), Harriet Harmen (45) and Charles Kennedy (44).

    If you want to make any claim based on that list then it would be that overwhelmingly their was a massive imbalance in favour of pro-EU guests.

    Of course the real reason is that they were articulate, passionate and entertaining, whether you agreed with them or not.
    QT guests articulate, passionate & entertaining, shome mishtake shirley?
    Ah, most of them are dead, fair enough.

    PJH said:

    kinabalu said:

    This 'BBC is seriously biased to the Left' is an obvious load of wank, isn't it. What we have here is a concerted attempt at political interference from bad actors on the Right. People who want to cow and control the BBC or failing that kill it off. A potentially successful attempt too, judging by how things are going. But it's not over yet. The BBC and all those who value it (for all its faults the most trusted source of news and info in the world) need to recognize the threat and fight fight fight against it. Fight like hell or we won't have a quality, non-partisan public broadcaster anymore.

    Personally, I've always felt the BBC has had two biases:

    Although it does give both views as a rule, there has always been a clear right wing bias (perhaps - I mean conservative) in selection and framing overall. Recently the migration debate has illustrated this well. The current fixation with Farage and Reform is an unusually obvious example of this. (By comparison, how often are people like Corbyn and Sultana on the Today programme, for example?)

    Secondly, it tends to be deferential to government. This was obvious during Covid, when it rarely challenged the government line.

    Taken together, it means that its right wing bias is usually less obvious when there is a Labour government and the two biases largely cancel each other out. The BBC's weird fixation with Reform (and also very soft pedalling on Trump) is unusual with an incumbent Labour government.

    However, I wonder whether the timing of this eruption is more down to Israel/Gaza than anything? The BBC is unquestionably biased to Palestine in its coverage and they definitely have big problems with their Arabic service. I note that the Today programme avoided it completely this morning. This isn't really a left/right issue, just a choice between different nationalisms (FWIW I support neither).

    If Your Party ends up with the 6 Independent Alliance MPs and polling 30% I expect you will see it more often on the BBC. Reform appears to be the most popular party in the country at the moment
    The majority of Farage's appearance on eg QT were before Reform existed.
    Still, I'm sure there's no causation there.
    I find this pre-occupation with the number of times Farage jhas appeared on QT to be rather amusing.

    Farage is 6th on the all time list of the number of times he has apeared as a guest on the programme. And 4th in terms of number of times per year.

    You would think from all the clamour that he appears every other week, or even every other month. In fact he has appeared on the programme 38 times in 24 years at an average of 1.5 times per year. This is the same number of appearences and the same average per year as Michael Heseltine.

    Kenneth Clarke made the most appearences - 59 times in 37 years at an average of 1.6 times a year.

    Shirley Williams has the second highest number of appearences but the highest number per year - 58 times in 35 years at an average of 1.7

    Then Ming Campbell (47), Harriet Harmen (45) and Charles Kennedy (44).

    If you want to make any claim based on that list then it would be that overwhelmingly their was a massive imbalance in favour of pro-EU guests.

    Of course the real reason is that they were articulate, passionate and entertaining, whether you agreed with them or not.
    QT guests articulate, passionate & entertaining, shome mishtake shirley?
    Ah, most of them are dead, fair enough.
    Running the country based on complete avoidance of any policy clapped by the QT audience isn't the worst plan.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,792
    Sarko hasn't even had a full Truss of time inside.

    This. Is. A. Disgrace.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
    Have you read the dossier? It will answer some of your questions, I think. I can link but don't want to on PB in case its copywrite of the Telegraph.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,792
    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    To be delivered by Royal Mail? It will never reach them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,095
    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
    The BBC don’t make it anymore. Too middle class and middle aged for da yoof obsessed Beeb.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,094

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    Well we've spent pretty well the whole morning talking about it.

    And no doubt they'd be accused of trying to ignore it if they did otherwise.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,094
    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
    Tell the grasping fucker to Arkell v Pressdram.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,606
    Right wingers won’t be happy till the BBC turns into an extension of the X cesspit .

    Farage can fxck right off .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,094
    nico67 said:

    Right wingers won’t be happy till the BBC turns into an extension of the X cesspit .

    Farage can fxck right off .

    Rather, they wish to destroy it.
    In favour of a media landscape like the US, largely owned by the very wealthy.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 712
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    First signs of an organised campaign:
    https://x.com/harrystebbings/status/1987829015248277861

    They have a domain name and everything.
    https://www.no-exit-tax.co.uk/

    They don't want to do this. Most people won't be aware you can piss off to Monaco et al and pay no capital gains on assets acquired while working in the UK. The more this is publicised the more Reeves will have to squash the tax exiles.
    Except that those who are aware of it, are the mobile HNWs and investors who keep quiet and just rearrange their affairs ahead of the Budget to have US/UAE/Monaco topcos, and Rachel realises far too late that she’s just lost billions of investment pounds.

    That’s before we start on the investment income that never arrives in the first place.

    There is no doubt that we have an imbalance in wealth globally these days but the solution is not to try and tax the rich out of your country. This has been tried many times and always fails. The best solution is to encourage the behaviour you want from the rich. That is to invest in the UK, be a good employer, support the local community. In return allow them to make a decent return, let them be a good family man / woman and support them against their global competitors. The UK used to be great at this now it is terrible.


  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,229
    DavidL said:

    30% for don't know suggests more people are paying attention than I feared. Labour are getting this worst because they are in power and have to make real decisions with real consequences but none, and I mean none, of the others are remotely convincing or serious about addressing our problems.

    In 2025 the UK government (in the broadest sense) is due to spend £1250bn. Of that £150bn will be borrowed from our children. That's 12% of all spending is borrowed. Debt is hovering around the high 90s of GDP and is growing significantly faster than output (nearly 10x as fast in fact). Arguing about £5-20bn of additional taxes is deck chairs on the Titanic territory. More than 4 years after the Covid induced recession we should be paying down our dangerously high debt, not adding to it. The changes that Reeves is proposing are in pursuit of some completely mickey mouse and random objective which is supposed to show a degree of control as the iceberg hoves into view. And our political class and media bicker about it pointlessly and endlessly as the ice starts work on the hull.

    David, they only care about saving their own skins and lucrative positions. The only option that is viable is large cuts in spending , they can tinker about with tax but what they should be doing is simplifying tax big time and taking an axe to spending.
    That is what happens to ordinary people when they max out their credit cards etc. Sheer lunacy but they will be well insulated.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,242
    nico67 said:

    Right wingers won’t be happy till the BBC turns into an extension of the X cesspit .

    Farage can fxck right off .

    I think it would help.calm right wing fears if the BBC didn't tell outright lies. It wasn't a mistake it was deliberate.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,229

    Sky

    ICC looking at a blanket ban on transgender women competing in women's sport

    should always have been the case
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,925
    Far all of those saying call his bluff, if you read the rest of this thread apparently not only is he not bluffing but the Beeb are bang to rights and we should send all of our license fee money to him immediately
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,094
    1/ Eleven Dutch parties across the political spectrum from socialist to conservative have issued a joint appeal to a provincial government to build a memorial to Black American soldiers who died in World War II, to replace one removed from the Netherlands American Cemetery.
    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1987811787484414220

    2/ The Dutch newspaper NRC reported earlier that a memorial to African-American soldiers who had fought to liberate the Netherlands and built the cemetery in Margraten, South Limburg, had been removed following a complaint by the Heritage Foundation.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,949
    Scott_xP said:

    Far all of those saying call his bluff, if you read the rest of this thread apparently not only is he not bluffing but the Beeb are bang to rights and we should send all of our license fee money to him immediately

    If only the BBC hadn't used stupid editing and not said it was edited.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,229

    Sandpit said:

    Another ‘deported’ migrant under the ‘one in, one out’ deal has returned to the UK in a small boat among the 1500 new arrivals in the past few days.

    LOL this idea isn’t working is it?

    I’m convinced that the options at this point are either a version of Rwanda or building a large camp on Ascencion Island.
    'One in, one out' implemented properly would work.

    Implemented properly, it would be us sending 1500 arrivals back over the next few days.

    1500 in, 1 out, will never work.
    especially as the 1 just gets next boat back and we have taxi waiting at the halfway point
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,191
    edited 2:27PM
    Scott_xP said:

    the Beeb are bang to rights.

    See how this works?

    [note, comment above is edited]
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,841

    nico67 said:

    Right wingers won’t be happy till the BBC turns into an extension of the X cesspit .

    Farage can fxck right off .

    I think it would help.calm right wing fears if the BBC didn't tell outright lies. It wasn't a mistake it was deliberate.
    It may well have been deliberate by somebody but by the corporation as whole? That's clearly b*ll*cks.

    BBC is without doubt the most unbiased and trustworthy source of news in the world overall - if you think that's wrong tell which is outlet is better?

    It's also a tremendous source of soft power for the UK. I find it astonishing that people who purport to be British patriots are striving to bring the BBC down. Putin will be loving this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,094
    Scott_xP said:

    Far all of those saying call his bluff, if you read the rest of this thread apparently not only is he not bluffing but the Beeb are bang to rights and we should send all of our license fee money to him immediately

    Or admit libel and offer him damages of one three pound note.
    Which is what his reputation is worth in this country.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,894
    Separately, it seems incredible to me that Sarkozy has
    a) been released 3 weeks into a 5 year prison sentence
    b) was being held in solitary confinement
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,286
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
    About 20 years ago there was a study done om media bias. The researchers tried to pull together a news item on Israel/Palestine and to do it in as bare bones a manner possible. Literally, just the agreed facts from both Israeli and Palestinian press.

    They showed the video to 50 or so students in Israel and Palestine.

    Without exception, every single one of the students thought it biased. Why? Because they felt that it was unfair to present their side's actions without the appropriate justifications. It wasn't unbiased, they thought, unless it explained why the Israeli government / Palestinian protestors acted as they did [Delete as Appropriate].

    I think about that study a lot, because it shows both how incredibly hard impartial news is to generate, and that we humans don't really want impartial news.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,925
    New: The Supreme Court DENIES Kim Davis' request to overturn Obergefell, the marriage equality decision. No noted dissents.

    https://bsky.app/profile/mjsdc.bsky.social/post/3m5btlumz2c2s
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,841
    Well, what do you know...

    Farage says small business owners who thought Brexit would cut regulation have been betrayed because opposite happened

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/nov/10/labour-rachel-reeves-election-manifesto-tax-budget-news-updates-uk-politics-live
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,286
    edited 2:33PM
    rkrkrk said:

    Separately, it seems incredible to me that Sarkozy has
    a) been released 3 weeks into a 5 year prison sentence
    b) was being held in solitary confinement

    They released him when he promised to self deport to the UK.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,652

    Ratters said:

    If I were the BBC, I'd be trying to find a way to escape the licence fee and become more independent:

    1) Subscription service: put all content behind a paywall, unusually set equal to the licence fee but that can be gradually increased or tiered (e.g. 4K quality tier) over time.

    2) Negotiate for a government grant for non-commercial activities. World service, minority languages, local radio. Give the grant or else see cuts. The more commercially viable offerings can then compete for subscriptions on a fair basis.

    3) Introduce advertising, while adding a more premium subscription tier that is advert free.

    I'd certainly pay...

    I can see this government going with some sort on enforced payment via council tax.
    I guess it would be about 8% on the average Band D Council Tax, on top of the 5%. Probably ain't gonna happen.
    Much of Europe wraps it up in that way.

    It would be more efficient.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,286
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    30% for don't know suggests more people are paying attention than I feared. Labour are getting this worst because they are in power and have to make real decisions with real consequences but none, and I mean none, of the others are remotely convincing or serious about addressing our problems.

    In 2025 the UK government (in the broadest sense) is due to spend £1250bn. Of that £150bn will be borrowed from our children. That's 12% of all spending is borrowed. Debt is hovering around the high 90s of GDP and is growing significantly faster than output (nearly 10x as fast in fact). Arguing about £5-20bn of additional taxes is deck chairs on the Titanic territory. More than 4 years after the Covid induced recession we should be paying down our dangerously high debt, not adding to it. The changes that Reeves is proposing are in pursuit of some completely mickey mouse and random objective which is supposed to show a degree of control as the iceberg hoves into view. And our political class and media bicker about it pointlessly and endlessly as the ice starts work on the hull.

    David, they only care about saving their own skins and lucrative positions. The only option that is viable is large cuts in spending , they can tinker about with tax but what they should be doing is simplifying tax big time and taking an axe to spending.
    That is what happens to ordinary people when they max out their credit cards etc. Sheer lunacy but they will be well insulated.
    Projecting again @malcolmg?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114
    rkrkrk said:

    Separately, it seems incredible to me that Sarkozy has
    a) been released 3 weeks into a 5 year prison sentence
    b) was being held in solitary confinement

    Isn't (a) because of an appeal and (b) obvious because he would be a target?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,094
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
    About 20 years ago there was a study done om media bias. The researchers tried to pull together a news item on Israel/Palestine and to do it in as bare bones a manner possible. Literally, just the agreed facts from both Israeli and Palestinian press.

    They showed the video to 50 or so students in Israel and Palestine.

    Without exception, every single one of the students thought it biased. Why? Because they felt that it was unfair to present their side's actions without the appropriate justifications. It wasn't unbiased, they thought, unless it explained why the Israeli government / Palestinian protestors acted as they did [Delete as Appropriate].

    I think about that study a lot, because it shows both how incredibly hard impartial news is to generate, and that we humans don't really want impartial news.
    The BBC has been pretty even handed over the years.
    They've regularly platformed spokespersons from both sides telling the most egregious lies.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
    About 20 years ago there was a study done om media bias. The researchers tried to pull together a news item on Israel/Palestine and to do it in as bare bones a manner possible. Literally, just the agreed facts from both Israeli and Palestinian press.

    They showed the video to 50 or so students in Israel and Palestine.

    Without exception, every single one of the students thought it biased. Why? Because they felt that it was unfair to present their side's actions without the appropriate justifications. It wasn't unbiased, they thought, unless it explained why the Israeli government / Palestinian protestors acted as they did [Delete as Appropriate].

    I think about that study a lot, because it shows both how incredibly hard impartial news is to generate, and that we humans don't really want impartial news.
    Most of us love a bit of conformation bias.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,862
    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
    The BBC needs to sue him first in the US, where the high “Actual Malice” standard of defamation applies. Even with that high bar, it’s difficult to defend what they actually broadcast.

    A London libel court would throw the book at the BBC.

    Looks like the licence fee payers will be contributing to that new ballroom in Washington.
    We didn’t need the Telegraph leak to know there had been an edit. You just need to watch the programme and compare it to the raw footage. The fact that this supposedly egregious libel had gone entirely unnoticed until the Telegraph leaked a report discussing it does not suggest that it was a particularly serious libel. The BBC has, fairly quickly, apologised and corrected the error.

    The actual libel wasn’t even saying Trump had done something he hadn’t. It was misrepresenting his exact words with an edit. Trump said A, and Trump said B, but he didn’t say B immediately after A. That’s rather less serious than making an explicit false accusation about someone.

    A London libel court would not throw the book at the BBC. They might get as far as lobbing a small pamphlet, or maybe a leaflet folded into a paper airplane.

    If any money went to Trump, it wouldn’t go to pay for the ballroom. Trump isn’t paying for his own ballroom with his own money. No, that money comes from those trying to curry favour with him, the umpteenth corruption scandal around Trump!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,286
    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
    The BBC needs to sue him first in the US, where the high “Actual Malice” standard of defamation applies. Even with that high bar, it’s difficult to defend what they actually broadcast.

    A London libel court would throw the book at the BBC.

    Looks like the licence fee payers will be contributing to that new ballroom in Washington.
    Irrespective of the legal issues, you would need to get a Jury in London to decide in favour of Trump.

    Even if that is passed, the Judge would need to decide on the value of the damage to Trump's reputation. And -as far as I can tell- there has never been a libel case against an indicidual in the UK where damages have topped 1m.

    So, my instinct, if I were the BBC would be to apologose for the selective editing, but offer no damages, and if Trump wants to sue for libel (and run up millions of pounds of legal fees he will almost certainly not recover), then he is welcome to do so.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,945
    Scott_xP said:

    Far all of those saying call his bluff, if you read the rest of this thread apparently not only is he not bluffing but the Beeb are bang to rights and we should send all of our license fee money to him immediately

    Bring it on. A BBC v Donald Trump court case at the Bailey (televised) would unite and galvanise the nation just when we were beginning to think we could never again be united and galvanised. We'll crowdfund our best Rumpole and he can have Rudi Giuliani now he's been pardoned. No contest.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,862
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    BREAKING: Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action, according to BBC News.

    This follows the allegations of BBC bias over a Panorama edit of a Donald Trump speech.

    Call his bluff.
    The BBC needs to sue him first in the US, where the high “Actual Malice” standard of defamation applies. Even with that high bar, it’s difficult to defend what they actually broadcast.

    A London libel court would throw the book at the BBC.

    Looks like the licence fee payers will be contributing to that new ballroom in Washington.
    Irrespective of the legal issues, you would need to get a Jury in London to decide in favour of Trump.

    Even if that is passed, the Judge would need to decide on the value of the damage to Trump's reputation. And -as far as I can tell- there has never been a libel case against an indicidual in the UK where damages have topped 1m.

    So, my instinct, if I were the BBC would be to apologose for the selective editing, but offer no damages, and if Trump wants to sue for libel (and run up millions of pounds of legal fees he will almost certainly not recover), then he is welcome to do so.

    Trump will do what he always does in such cases: shout about taking legal action, maybe initiate it, but then quietly drop it when the headlines move on.
  • hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 712

    Well, what do you know...

    Farage says small business owners who thought Brexit would cut regulation have been betrayed because opposite happened

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/nov/10/labour-rachel-reeves-election-manifesto-tax-budget-news-updates-uk-politics-live




    There is no doubt that Brexit is Farage's achilles heel. The trouble that Labour have is that have done nothing about it and show no evidence that they plan to,


  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,862
    Personally, I think Trump shouldn't be allowed to sue anyone for libel until he's paid the libel settlement he owes!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,384
    Explosion at metro station in Delhi being reported.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,114
    edited 2:57PM

    Well, what do you know...

    Farage says small business owners who thought Brexit would cut regulation have been betrayed because opposite happened

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2025/nov/10/labour-rachel-reeves-election-manifesto-tax-budget-news-updates-uk-politics-live




    There is no doubt that Brexit is Farage's achilles heel. The trouble that Labour have is that have done nothing about it and show no evidence that they plan to,


    BIB sums it up
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,623
    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
    About 20 years ago there was a study done om media bias. The researchers tried to pull together a news item on Israel/Palestine and to do it in as bare bones a manner possible. Literally, just the agreed facts from both Israeli and Palestinian press.

    They showed the video to 50 or so students in Israel and Palestine.

    Without exception, every single one of the students thought it biased. Why? Because they felt that it was unfair to present their side's actions without the appropriate justifications. It wasn't unbiased, they thought, unless it explained why the Israeli government / Palestinian protestors acted as they did [Delete as Appropriate].

    I think about that study a lot, because it shows both how incredibly hard impartial news is to generate, and that we humans don't really want impartial news.
    Do you have the name of that study please?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,623

    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Good grief, that's pretty much the entirety of WATO spent on the BBC's Trump speech edit. Is there no other news today? While I'm broadly a fan of the BBC, the corporation's inflated sense of its own importance does irk me.

    The BBC loves nothing more than looking at its own navel.
    The Trump issue is mostly a distraction from the more serious impartiality issues around Gaza, transgenderism, climate, where there’s a clear capture of the organisation from lobby groups and young staff.
    I am not clear from anywhere what 'impartial' coverage of Gaza/Israel and allied issues could possibly look like. Example. There is widespread disagreement as to a vast range of facts in both recent and older history. (Eg should Israel be treated as a nation state in the same way that, say, France is treated, or should it be treated as occupied territory properly belonging to other groups with other names.)

    Does 'impartial' coverage allow 'moral facts'? Whether there are moral facts has been bitterly contested at least since the 18th century.

    A related point. In an age of infinite media sources, the BBC is caught between two stools. Other outlets are more interesting because they allow themselves to be more sharply polemical (eg Simon Marks, LBC's USA man, though in his case IMO just as true if not truer). The BBC tries to do comment, but has to be balanced and we know in advance it won't come to sharp decisive conclusion. Many of its problems stem from its understandable departure from old fashioned news, as once there was in newspapers, where there was an absolutely decisive line between news/facts and editorial comment. The BBC does comment all the time. Even in actual news bulletins. Our appetite for it is insatiable.

    There is also the problem that facts are expensive and opinions are free. See the internet passim for the daily outpouring of this truth.
    About 20 years ago there was a study done om media bias. The researchers tried to pull together a news item on Israel/Palestine and to do it in as bare bones a manner possible. Literally, just the agreed facts from both Israeli and Palestinian press.

    They showed the video to 50 or so students in Israel and Palestine.

    Without exception, every single one of the students thought it biased. Why? Because they felt that it was unfair to present their side's actions without the appropriate justifications. It wasn't unbiased, they thought, unless it explained why the Israeli government / Palestinian protestors acted as they did [Delete as Appropriate].

    I think about that study a lot, because it shows both how incredibly hard impartial news is to generate, and that we humans don't really want impartial news.
    Most of us love a bit of conformation bias.
    How did you reach that conclusion?
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