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Like a slow motion Liz Truss – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,777
edited 7:45AM in General
Like a slow motion Liz Truss – politicalbetting.com

After Liz Truss's mini-budget, just 15 per cent of people felt the Tories were the best party at handling the economyToday, the equivalent figure for Labour is 12 per cent www.thetimes.com/article/470f…

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Comments

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,357
    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,188
    2nd like Kimi Antonelli.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,218
    Third like Kemi
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,555

    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.

    ...in 49 days.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,539

    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.

    His other suggestion- appointing David Cameron- is also tricky.

    On the plus side- has has experience in the media biz. On the minus side, it was working for Carlton TV and On Digital. Remember them?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,499
    Not sure about TSE's conclusion - my sense is Reform voters have a kind of economic nihilism.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,413
    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    I'm sure the output would itself have raised questions but the huge error of Truss/Kwarteng was that they made no attempt to do the math. Had they provided a rationale for what they were proposing there would have been a bunfight as to its affordability and so forth but they would have avoided the catastrophe that keeping silent guaranteed.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,539
    On thread, maybe there are the beginnings of wisdom here. We don't know who can do a good job with the economy.

    The best way to run the economy well is to be in the right place at the right time and not do anything stupid. Events in America and Ukraine are much bigger factors than anything any UK government can do.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,683

    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.

    His other suggestion- appointing David Cameron- is also tricky.

    On the plus side- has has experience in the media biz. On the minus side, it was working for Carlton TV and On Digital. Remember them?
    The last time the BBC had a card-carrying Conservative DG was Tim Davie, and he had to resign in disgrace.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,853
    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,188
    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,499
    edited 8:01AM
    And what have the Democrats done?! They've managed to take ownership for covering up the Epstein files, preventing their own representatives from taking office, AND take away from healthcare from millions of people? Insane politics.

    (No idea if any of that is actually true but that's certainly the message online.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073

    Scott_xP said:

    Trump incited a riot.

    The claim now is that he didn't, but the edit make look like he did.

    He did.

    The edit doesn't change that.

    But it provides an easy rebuttal for the post-truth social media led world
    And that's the irreducible core of the challenge. How do you try to tell as close to the truth as you can, when rivals simply aren't bothering?

    Part of the news media is downright shoddy. (I wonder how much of Michael Prescott's work at the Sunday Times met the standards he is now calling for?) It's good that some news media are better than that, but better isn't necessarily enough.

    If his report prepared for the BBC, which was leaked to the Telegraph, is anything to go by, then not much of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073
    Newsom's response to the Democratic senators folding.

    "Pathetic."
    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1987703732600184837
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,357
    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,539

    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.

    His other suggestion- appointing David Cameron- is also tricky.

    On the plus side- has has experience in the media biz. On the minus side, it was working for Carlton TV and On Digital. Remember them?
    The last time the BBC had a card-carrying Conservative DG was Tim Davie, and he had to resign in disgrace.
    As a card-losing Conservative, that one is easy to explain.

    Until quite recently, it was possible to say- with a reasonably straight face- "I'm not very political, so I joined the Conservatives." Yes, I know that sounds bonkers, but there you go.

    All card-carrying Socialists are deeply political, by definition.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,788
    Excellent news. A chance for the little guys to fight back.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,803

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 153
    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,357

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,683
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    I'm sure the output would itself have raised questions but the huge error of Truss/Kwarteng was that they made no attempt to do the math. Had they provided a rationale for what they were proposing there would have been a bunfight as to its affordability and so forth but they would have avoided the catastrophe that keeping silent guaranteed.
    No, the huge error of Truss was to explicitly sideline the BoE and OBR, so the bond markets smelt a rat. Why sideline the ‘grown-ups in the room’? Truss must be hiding something. This is why Reeves is forever deferring to that discredited bunch of guessers, even when it meant delaying the budget.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073

    Excellent news. A chance for the little guys to fight back.
    Your declared political positions seem to be ...

    No development;
    The human race should die out;
    In the meantime, carbon capture should get loadsamoney.

    A fair summary ?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,857
    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    It's a stupid strategy as they'll get people angry even when they don't implement the floated policy and the ones they abandon will be those the media whip up most opposition to, a return to "purdah" would be better.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,539
    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    Set up an AI to do it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,788
    Nigelb said:

    Excellent news. A chance for the little guys to fight back.
    Your declared political positions seem to be ...

    No development;
    The human race should die out;
    In the meantime, carbon capture should get loadsamoney.

    A fair summary ?
    Carbon capture only in the right applications.

    And converting the gas network to hydrogen.

    Otherwise, that's the bulk of my manifesto.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,117
    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    It's a stupid strategy as they'll get people angry even when they don't implement the floated policy and the ones they abandon will be those the media whip up most opposition to, a return to "purdah" would be better.
    More alarmingly, it's indicative they're flying kites for political and public approval rather than making economic plans based on economic reasons. As a result, the measures they enact may well be more determined by assuaging the media and public rather than improving the state of the public finances, and the various tinkering policies may interact with one another in ways that are less than helpful.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,893
    This shows voters despair at the economy getting better. Not unreasonable given the last 15 years.

    It will change though if the economy does start to do well.

  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,803
    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,893
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073
    .
    Eabhal said:

    And what have the Democrats done?! They've managed to take ownership for covering up the Epstein files, preventing their own representatives from taking office, AND take away from healthcare from millions of people? Insane politics.

    (No idea if any of that is actually true but that's certainly the message online.)

    It's not, of course.

    Shutdown battles are always about unpleasant choices, and there are downsides to whatever action the Democrats take.
    But folding without having achieved anything of substance from your opponents never plays well.

    The GOP, equally, is now faced with some electorally unpalatable choices of its own.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent news. A chance for the little guys to fight back.
    Your declared political positions seem to be ...

    No development;
    The human race should die out;
    In the meantime, carbon capture should get loadsamoney.

    A fair summary ?
    Carbon capture only in the right applications.

    And converting the gas network to hydrogen.

    Otherwise, that's the bulk of my manifesto.
    About 80% of the gas network is already ready for Hydrogen. Boilers are also made to be hydrogen enabled.

    When I worked for Baxi they were very keen to go down the hydrogen boiler route. Even had a few houses in Gateshead running on Hydrogen.

    The problem was always the production.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,683

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    There are a couple of organisational points here. First, like many BBC programmes after the John Birt reforms, the Panorama in question was made by an independent production company rather than the BBC itself. Second, why has it taken right wing pundits so long to notice how Trump's speech was broadcast, if it really was that obvious and distorting? Third, why did someone at the BBC not watch the show first?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,788
    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    None whatsoever- which is indicated by the fact that the piece received all of ... zero complaints at the time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,117

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,425
    edited 8:23AM
    The Conservative response to the Budget will be very important.

    Big opportunity for Mel Stride to show what he can offer. If he can pin the unpopular stuff on Reeves and Starmer, whilst having a sensible narrative for what he would have done instead, the Tories could start heading back towards Reform in the polls.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,803
    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    You seem pretty obsessed by posters who are obsessed.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,577
    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    I agree the constant tax speculation is unhelpful. It's one reason why I really hope Reeves make OBR forecasts annual. Otherwise we're on speculation of budget black holes every 6 months and the preceding period, which is completely unnecessary.

    On the exit tax, I do think it's worth exploring taxes on expats to low tax countries, but I'm not sure what form that should take. What people shouldn't be able to do is spend their working years abroad paying no tax and then retiring here and taking advantage of our healthcare and state pension with only a few quid spent on voluntary NI contributions.

    If people want the benefits of citizenship / residency in retirement, they should pay their fair share during their working life.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,425
    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    But that means getting Twitter. Ugh.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,577
    edited 8:28AM
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Excellent news. A chance for the little guys to fight back.
    Your declared political positions seem to be ...

    No development;
    The human race should die out;
    In the meantime, carbon capture should get loadsamoney.

    A fair summary ?
    Carbon capture only in the right applications.

    And converting the gas network to hydrogen.

    Otherwise, that's the bulk of my manifesto.
    About 80% of the gas network is already ready for Hydrogen. Boilers are also made to be hydrogen enabled.

    When I worked for Baxi they were very keen to go down the hydrogen boiler route. Even had a few houses in Gateshead running on Hydrogen.

    The problem was always the production.
    The argument for hydrogen always seemed spurious when it is almost exclusively made, on a commercial basis, via fossil fuels and not electrolysis.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,788

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073
    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    I'd welcome them both back, FWIW.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    You seem pretty obsessed by posters who are obsessed.
    No, I replied to a question about where Leon was.

    You keep obsessing about him, makes a change from cross dressing men.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,117
    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    I agree the constant tax speculation is unhelpful. It's one reason why I really hope Reeves make OBR forecasts annual. Otherwise we're on speculation of budget black holes every 6 months and the preceding period, which is completely unnecessary.

    On the exit tax, I do think it's worth exploring taxes on expats to low tax countries, but I'm not sure what form that should take. What people shouldn't be able to do is spend their working years abroad paying no tax and then retiring here and taking advantage of our healthcare and state pension with only a few quid spent on voluntary NI contributions.

    If people want the benefits of citizenship / residency in retirement, they should pay their fair share during their working life.
    But doesn't that cut both ways, with some foreigners working here and paying tax then retiring back home? I'm not a fan of people being taxed twice over. It's telling that only the USA and Eritrea currently, I think, impose income tax on citizens who work overseas.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,788

    The Conservative response to the Budget will be very important.

    Big opportunity for Mel Stride to show what he can offer. If he can pin the unpopular stuff on Reeves and Starmer, whilst having a sensible narrative for what he would have done instead, the Tories could start heading back towards Reform in the polls.

    Kemi has to respond in the Commons.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,357
    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    I'm only asking as I am on here sporadically at the moment and didn't know he'd been banned again again.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    But that means getting Twitter. Ugh.
    Yeah, it’s getting worse now people seem to be coming back from Bluesky too.

    On the plus side my feed is full of pics of Sydney Sweeney.

    I also don’t seem to get too much right wing guff either.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,752

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073
    Q: Will you assure House Democrats they'll get a vote on ACA subsidies by a date certain?

    MIKE JOHNSON: Ah -- no. I'm not promising anyone anything.

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1986460444609941798
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,803
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    You seem pretty obsessed by posters who are obsessed.
    No, I replied to a question about where Leon was.

    You keep obsessing about him, makes a change from cross dressing men.
    Perhaps we should just have loads of posts about quotidian itineraries of eating out and favourites of ‘classic’ British tv. Be still my beating heart!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,357

    The Conservative response to the Budget will be very important.

    Big opportunity for Mel Stride to show what he can offer. If he can pin the unpopular stuff on Reeves and Starmer, whilst having a sensible narrative for what he would have done instead, the Tories could start heading back towards Reform in the polls.

    The Tories big opportunity is for Plan B - let's make a change of direction in how we run the political economy.

    Their problem is that instead of doing that, they seem in denial about their time doing Plan A. Happy to decry Labour also doing Plan A but missing the rather basic point that little of substance has changed.

    So we will have the budget. And the Tory response to the budget. Two bald people arguing about what colour the hairbrush for their luscious hair should be.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    I'm only asking as I am on here sporadically at the moment and didn't know he'd been banned again again.
    Looks like it’s a permie one this time. Others have been temp.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 153

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    The NI reduction as compensation for tax increases for working people is going to provide little political cover.
    If you need to rip off the plaster. Just do it. The fallout will be the same. By refunding you just annoy those who are impacted more with zero gratitude from those who are no worse off.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    You seem pretty obsessed by posters who are obsessed.
    No, I replied to a question about where Leon was.

    You keep obsessing about him, makes a change from cross dressing men.
    Perhaps we should just have loads of posts about quotidian itineraries of eating out and favourites of ‘classic’ British tv. Be still my beating heart!
    Sounds fine to me.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,577

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    I agree the constant tax speculation is unhelpful. It's one reason why I really hope Reeves make OBR forecasts annual. Otherwise we're on speculation of budget black holes every 6 months and the preceding period, which is completely unnecessary.

    On the exit tax, I do think it's worth exploring taxes on expats to low tax countries, but I'm not sure what form that should take. What people shouldn't be able to do is spend their working years abroad paying no tax and then retiring here and taking advantage of our healthcare and state pension with only a few quid spent on voluntary NI contributions.

    If people want the benefits of citizenship / residency in retirement, they should pay their fair share during their working life.
    But doesn't that cut both ways, with some foreigners working here and paying tax then retiring back home? I'm not a fan of people being taxed twice over. It's telling that only the USA and Eritrea currently, I think, impose income tax on citizens who work overseas.
    For EU countries like France, Germany USA etc, then yes it does. And I don't think there's necessarily a need to tax people who move abroad to live in other countries with a similar tax burden - you just accept it broadly comes out in the wash.

    It's the people going off to live in zero (or close to zero) tax countries, often in well paying jobs, and then retaining all the upside of citizenship that I object most to.

    I'm sure there's lots of ways you could design a system that only targets that segment.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    Dan Neidle was saying it could end up nearer to £10 billion although your calculation is pretty spot on as to what is expected.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091
    So if Reeves is going to tax share dividends further is there a chance she will scrap Stamp Duty on share purchases.

    Nils Pratley in The Guardian had an interesting piece on it and the impact of AZ moving its listing

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2025/nov/03/reeves-recognise-reality-astrazeneca-killed-stamp-duty-shares
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,380
    edited 8:37AM
    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That will dilute the public anger somewhat, I think, over the manifesto breach so to me the politics of that move feel safer than a straightforward rise.

    She could try and do a 2p raise with a corresponding 1p cut, if she feels brave.

    The possibility is that in addition she does, say a 3p up and 2p down on higher rate. The “broadest shoulders” argument.

    It’s clear she wants to try and raise a lot of cash in this budget.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,752
    edited 8:38AM
    I think there is an outside, OUTSIDE, chance that the additional rate is pushed up to 50%. We've been there before! So that the broadest shoulders can bear a little more...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,380
    I’d be all for an NI cut because, even if she is doing it inadvertently, I fully agree with shifting NI to IT over time - we should be getting rid of it.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 153
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    None whatsoever- which is indicated by the fact that the piece received all of ... zero complaints at the time.
    That’s a sign of just how good a fabrication it was. The best lies are hidden in truth. Nothing Burgers don’t take down the DG and head of news at one of the world’s most recognisable media organisations.
    They lied.
    They lied.
    They lied.

    I was jaw dropping shocked when I saw it. I was saddened to the core that it was the BBC and Panorama. A show that from my youth had always been a programme that meant truth and integrity.

    If a show like Panorama on a station like the BBC can so easily deceive, it makes me question assumptions about all news reporting.
    It’s devastating. To simply dismiss it as orange man bag and it’s probably what he meant anyway, just adds. Carrying water for media corruption because its a noble lie.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,454
    Council officers should be applying the regulations to ensure fairness on both sides.

    Without help of some sort, AI or not, local objectors, who lack expertise in this complex area, resort to sloppy, incomplete and irrelevant objections which get knocked down by those that know, who sigh a relief that the meaty grounds for objecting have been missed.

    Meanwhile, council officers are indulging in behind-the-scenes discussions with developers (long past the objection deadline) to get applications through by contorting their own rules, and then they get patted on the back for meeting their new housing targets and enlarging their tax base.

    Parishioners are being out-gunned and the countryside and nature is being cemented over. I've seen all this in action and spoken to people on all sides.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,768
    Taz said:

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    Dan Neidle was saying it could end up nearer to £10 billion although your calculation is pretty spot on as to what is expected.
    Jessop says it is closer to £10b if the NI additional rate is unchanged


    https://x.com/julianHjessop/status/1986849400015016253
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,752

    Taz said:

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    Dan Neidle was saying it could end up nearer to £10 billion although your calculation is pretty spot on as to what is expected.
    Jessop says it is closer to £10b if the NI additional rate is unchanged


    https://x.com/julianHjessop/status/1986849400015016253
    Any NI cut is probably only going to be to the 8% main rate up to £50,270pa. It is highly unlikely that the 2% on earnings above £50,270pa will be reduced.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,782
    WRT BBC bias and all that (I am a BBC radio life long enthusiast).

    This morning I listened to a couple of hours of turgid R4 Today introspection on the current row. I haven't read the famous leaked memo/report. One thing stood out a mile: Charles Moore (whose bias and dislike of the BBC is of course obvious) started to mention, as if from the memo/report suggestions about the BBC Arabic service which, if true, are egregiously and outstandingly startling and a total dereliction of news values duties. No idea if it's true. This was more or less immediately stifled and diverted and the rest of the two hours focusses on other stuff including the now notorious Panorama splicing of clips from a well known American fascist called Donald Trump.

    This indicated to me that a selection bias is going on, under the appearance of fair neutral news coverage. But I can't be sure.
  • edited 8:49AM
    Stocky said:

    Council officers should be applying the regulations to ensure fairness on both sides.

    Without help of some sort, AI or not, local objectors, who lack expertise in this complex area, resort to sloppy, incomplete and irrelevant objections which get knocked down by those that know, who sigh a relief that the meaty grounds for objecting have been missed.

    Meanwhile, council officers are indulging in behind-the-scenes discussions with developers (long past the objection deadline) to get applications through by contorting their own rules, and then they get patted on the back for meeting their new housing targets and enlarging their tax base.

    Parishioners are being out-gunned and the countryside and nature is being cemented over. I've seen all this in action and spoken to people on all sides.
    The answer is simple but would never be adopted, even by Reform. A £20 fee for registering an objection to a planning application, returnable if the objection is upheld when the application is determined.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,091

    Taz said:

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    Dan Neidle was saying it could end up nearer to £10 billion although your calculation is pretty spot on as to what is expected.
    Jessop says it is closer to £10b if the NI additional rate is unchanged


    https://x.com/julianHjessop/status/1986849400015016253
    Sorry, it was Jessop not Dan I was thinking of, confused the two, you’re quite right there.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,693

    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.

    ...in 49 days.
    Surely in 42 days?

    Because in the seventh week she rested

    * at least according to @Luckyguy1983
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,226
    edited 8:56AM
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    They need to do the right thing and cut all non investment spending , ie benefits, pensions and stop all funds to illegal immigrants, deport all foreign criminals. Maybe if once these arseholes did teh obvious easy stuff teh public might support them, grow a backbone you spineless tossers.
    PS: Get shot of all the parasitic quangos/charity parasites/ambulance chasers , etc who feed off all the crazy misuse of supposed rights / laws
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,782
    Stocky said:

    Council officers should be applying the regulations to ensure fairness on both sides.

    Without help of some sort, AI or not, local objectors, who lack expertise in this complex area, resort to sloppy, incomplete and irrelevant objections which get knocked down by those that know, who sigh a relief that the meaty grounds for objecting have been missed.

    Meanwhile, council officers are indulging in behind-the-scenes discussions with developers (long past the objection deadline) to get applications through by contorting their own rules, and then they get patted on the back for meeting their new housing targets and enlarging their tax base.

    Parishioners are being out-gunned and the countryside and nature is being cemented over. I've seen all this in action and spoken to people on all sides.
    How, I wonder, is it possible to build millions of dwellings for a population who like low rise with gardens in nice areas with current populations living in nice areas with low rise with nice gardens who don't want any more of them without upsetting someone?

    (In addition I note that in horrible places with high rise and no gardens like parts of cities, the new build dwellings numbers are no better or often worse.)

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,357

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    None whatsoever- which is indicated by the fact that the piece received all of ... zero complaints at the time.
    That’s a sign of just how good a fabrication it was. The best lies are hidden in truth. Nothing Burgers don’t take down the DG and head of news at one of the world’s most recognisable media organisations.
    They lied.
    They lied.
    They lied.

    I was jaw dropping shocked when I saw it. I was saddened to the core that it was the BBC and Panorama. A show that from my youth had always been a programme that meant truth and integrity.

    If a show like Panorama on a station like the BBC can so easily deceive, it makes me question assumptions about all news reporting.
    It’s devastating. To simply dismiss it as orange man bag and it’s probably what he meant anyway, just adds. Carrying water for media corruption because its a noble lie.
    The truth: Trump incited a riot
    The edited lie: Trump incited a riot

    Why the performative shock? We aren't morons on X, doesn't work here.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,188
    edited 8:55AM
    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    It's a stupid strategy as they'll get people angry even when they don't implement the floated policy and the ones they abandon will be those the media whip up most opposition to, a return to "purdah" would be better.
    A rare point of agreement there. I wish we knew nothing about the Budget as the Chancellor stood up, and I wish that the morning’s media would concentrate on things that have been announced rather than things that have yet to be announced.

    The amount of kite-flying this year is off the scale.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,380
    algarkirk said:

    WRT BBC bias and all that (I am a BBC radio life long enthusiast).

    This morning I listened to a couple of hours of turgid R4 Today introspection on the current row. I haven't read the famous leaked memo/report. One thing stood out a mile: Charles Moore (whose bias and dislike of the BBC is of course obvious) started to mention, as if from the memo/report suggestions about the BBC Arabic service which, if true, are egregiously and outstandingly startling and a total dereliction of news values duties. No idea if it's true. This was more or less immediately stifled and diverted and the rest of the two hours focusses on other stuff including the now notorious Panorama splicing of clips from a well known American fascist called Donald Trump.

    This indicated to me that a selection bias is going on, under the appearance of fair neutral news coverage. But I can't be sure.

    To me the “bias” argument is a bit of a misnomer, the bigger problem at the BBC is a noticeable decline in the quality of their journalism and with the editorial oversight being less good. That can itself manifest in stories appearing more partial, or in keeping with a particular “world view”.

    The BBC does not have an easy task but that doesn’t excuse its failings. Like the government, Id rather it did fewer things better (respected news and journalism being one of the things we really need right now) than lots of things poorly.

    I think the news division should in some way be spun off from its entertainment offering too.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,693

    Cumbria had the BEST suggestion on the last thread:

    Appoint TRUSS to the BBC

    Guaranteed to end the institution.

    His other suggestion- appointing David Cameron- is also tricky.

    On the plus side- has has experience in the media biz. On the minus side, it was working for Carlton TV and On Digital. Remember them?
    Wasn’t he in PR for them? Unless you are very cynical that’s not really a relevant skill set…
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,512

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    The NI reduction as compensation for tax increases for working people is going to provide little political cover.
    If you need to rip off the plaster. Just do it. The fallout will be the same. By refunding you just annoy those who are impacted more with zero gratitude from those who are no worse off.
    How much does it cost to raise the tax free allowance? That would mean that people earning below a certain amount would not pay more tax and some would be better off.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,218
    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    Haven't mentioned him for ages; not since the day he was banned, I think? But now you offer the invitation, this forum is more mature and pleasant and civilised and informative when he isn't around.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,454
    algarkirk said:

    Stocky said:

    Council officers should be applying the regulations to ensure fairness on both sides.

    Without help of some sort, AI or not, local objectors, who lack expertise in this complex area, resort to sloppy, incomplete and irrelevant objections which get knocked down by those that know, who sigh a relief that the meaty grounds for objecting have been missed.

    Meanwhile, council officers are indulging in behind-the-scenes discussions with developers (long past the objection deadline) to get applications through by contorting their own rules, and then they get patted on the back for meeting their new housing targets and enlarging their tax base.

    Parishioners are being out-gunned and the countryside and nature is being cemented over. I've seen all this in action and spoken to people on all sides.
    How, I wonder, is it possible to build millions of dwellings for a population who like low rise with gardens in nice areas with current populations living in nice areas with low rise with nice gardens who don't want any more of them without upsetting someone?

    (In addition I note that in horrible places with high rise and no gardens like parts of cities, the new build dwellings numbers are no better or often worse.)

    The very notion of building 'millions of dwellings' would be a dystopian horror inflicted on our small once-beautiful island, an environmental disaster which has stemmed from successive governments failing to control population numbers (or even have a target to do so).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,226

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    Not even a sticking plaster for these morons, they had 20B last time and are back with begging bowl. Time to cut spending , slash waste and bloated public services , stop giving every tom , dick and harry ever increasing handouts for feck all. Anyone on benefits should be made to pick litter every day under supervision, soon see some shift in attitudes.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,472
    Nigelb said:

    Newsom's response to the Democratic senators folding.

    "Pathetic."
    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1987703732600184837

    Newsom is a malignant narcissist.

    The Dems really need to be looking at other candidates.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,226
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    This BBC Furore just shows that American fascism (sorry, "yanksoc") is now starting to permeate its way into our own institutions.

    In the past we would debate issues and facts. Disagreeing with the other side but recognising that their policy position is based on truth and their genuine ambition to do what is best for the country.

    That is gone. Now we argue about the facts - even when those facts happened in real time in front of us. And have malevolent actors doing their best to undermine the country.

    Yanksoc is not going to be good for the UK as we continue to be influenced by it.

    Yanksoc has a bit of a Leon vibe..
    Well, fascists are wankers...

    Where is Leon?
    He’s been banned, yet people like you and TUDand IanB2 still obsess about him.

    God knows why. I guess it shows the influence he has. No one is pining for that knob Jessop who flounced before Leon was banned.

    He’s not been here for weeks.

    You can get him on Twitter if you want.
    Haven't mentioned him for ages; not since the day he was banned, I think? But now you offer the invitation, this forum is more mature and pleasant and civilised and informative when he isn't around.
    Though a bit more boring as well, he did liven up topics in between the crazy stuff.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,425
    Sandpit said:

    Dopermean said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    It's a stupid strategy as they'll get people angry even when they don't implement the floated policy and the ones they abandon will be those the media whip up most opposition to, a return to "purdah" would be better.
    A rare point of agreement there. I wish we knew nothing about the Budget as the Chancellor stood up, and I wish that the morning’s media would concentrate on things that have been announced rather than things that have yet to be announced.

    The amount of kite-flying this year is off the scale.
    They need to raise a vast amount of cash. My expectation is that it will be very windy on Budget Day - and virtually all the kites will be airborne.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,153

    Nigelb said:

    Newsom's response to the Democratic senators folding.

    "Pathetic."
    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1987703732600184837

    Newsom is a malignant narcissist.

    The Dems really need to be looking at other candidates.
    You have to be a malignant narcissist to win these days
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,348
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    None whatsoever- which is indicated by the fact that the piece received all of ... zero complaints at the time.
    How could you complain if you saw it and took it on trust - as I did?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,073

    Nigelb said:

    Newsom's response to the Democratic senators folding.

    "Pathetic."
    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1987703732600184837

    Newsom is a malignant narcissist.

    The Dems really need to be looking at other candidates.
    Who would you favour ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,226

    I think there is an outside, OUTSIDE, chance that the additional rate is pushed up to 50%. We've been there before! So that the broadest shoulders can bear a little more...

    The parasites are getting greedier by the day, desperate to leech even more off the blood sweat and tears of hard workers. What will these tossers do when the magic money tree is bare and the IMF come calling. You do not get blood out of a stone.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,920

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    None whatsoever- which is indicated by the fact that the piece received all of ... zero complaints at the time.
    That’s a sign of just how good a fabrication it was. The best lies are hidden in truth. Nothing Burgers don’t take down the DG and head of news at one of the world’s most recognisable media organisations.
    They lied.
    They lied.
    They lied.

    I was jaw dropping shocked when I saw it. I was saddened to the core that it was the BBC and Panorama. A show that from my youth had always been a programme that meant truth and integrity.

    If a show like Panorama on a station like the BBC can so easily deceive, it makes me question assumptions about all news reporting.
    It’s devastating. To simply dismiss it as orange man bag and it’s probably what he meant anyway, just adds. Carrying water for media corruption because its a noble lie.
    The truth: Trump incited a riot
    The edited lie: Trump incited a riot

    Why the performative shock? We aren't morons on X, doesn't work here.
    Is the 'gap' between the ears?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,782

    algarkirk said:

    WRT BBC bias and all that (I am a BBC radio life long enthusiast).

    This morning I listened to a couple of hours of turgid R4 Today introspection on the current row. I haven't read the famous leaked memo/report. One thing stood out a mile: Charles Moore (whose bias and dislike of the BBC is of course obvious) started to mention, as if from the memo/report suggestions about the BBC Arabic service which, if true, are egregiously and outstandingly startling and a total dereliction of news values duties. No idea if it's true. This was more or less immediately stifled and diverted and the rest of the two hours focusses on other stuff including the now notorious Panorama splicing of clips from a well known American fascist called Donald Trump.

    This indicated to me that a selection bias is going on, under the appearance of fair neutral news coverage. But I can't be sure.

    To me the “bias” argument is a bit of a misnomer, the bigger problem at the BBC is a noticeable decline in the quality of their journalism and with the editorial oversight being less good. That can itself manifest in stories appearing more partial, or in keeping with a particular “world view”.

    The BBC does not have an easy task but that doesn’t excuse its failings. Like the government, Id rather it did fewer things better (respected news and journalism being one of the things we really need right now) than lots of things poorly.

    I think the news division should in some way be spun off from its entertainment offering too.
    Yes. Really high quality stuff can always be seen as having a bias, but this is because it is a practical necessity that certain assumptions are built into more or less any use of language and of course in story selection - which is where vast amounts of bias lie hidden.

    Start with an extreme example for a simple illustration. Philosophically rigorous neutrality and sticking to facts in the empirical sense would require that the reporting takes no view, explicitly or implicitly, about the moral status (right or wrongness, good or evilness) of torturing children for fun.

    This of course causes no problem because consensus. But the moment you deal in shades of grey, that gets hard. One of the simplest examples is in use of names. What words the BBC, or anyone else, uses to describe certain regions, towns, countries, ethnicities, events in history etc are in themselves seen as sources of bias. Like Derry/Londonderry multiplied by millions

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,693
    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    I agree the constant tax speculation is unhelpful. It's one reason why I really hope Reeves make OBR forecasts annual. Otherwise we're on speculation of budget black holes every 6 months and the preceding period, which is completely unnecessary.

    On the exit tax, I do think it's worth exploring taxes on expats to low tax countries, but I'm not sure what form that should take. What people shouldn't be able to do is spend their working years abroad paying no tax and then retiring here and taking advantage of our healthcare and state pension with only a few quid spent on voluntary NI contributions.

    If people want the benefits of citizenship / residency in retirement, they should pay their fair share during their working life.
    If the OBR has half the money workload can we cut their headcount by 50%? Or are public sector job cuts bad?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,693

    rkrkrk said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Truss went about things in an idiotic, stupid, hubristic way, ignoring the OBR and the rest, but at least you could see, from her own idealistic perspective, what she thought she was trying to achieve.

    No-one can see what Labour is trying to do, other than survive in office.

    Incompetently trying to fix a hole in Government finances without doing the sensible things we suggest on here.

    I would be 3p on income tax, reduce NI by 2p.

    And fix council tax and stamp duty.

    But that is complex so they won’t do it
    I think they'll do a version of the former this budget.
    Probably 2p up, 2p down so they can argue working people aren't paying more.
    That's what the papers keep claiming.
    How much would cutting NI reduce the increased revenue from higher income tax, though?
    It is forecast to raise £6 bn a year. I know that isn't what you asked!
    1p on income tax raises £10bn pa. 1p off NI costs £4bn pa. So net £6bn.

    So without the NI cut Rachel would only need to raise income tax by 1p. With a bit more for the higher and additional rates.
    Raise 2 cut 2 would raise more and rebalance faster. I doubt the political cost would be much different
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,188
    edited 9:13AM

    Ratters said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    Tres said:

    Rachel Reeves is poised to increase the tax rate on earnings from shares in her Nov 26 Budget, The Telegraph understands. The Chancellor is expected to put up the rate of dividend tax in a move that will hit investors but could raise up to £2bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/11/09/rachel-reeves-increase-dividend-tax-budget/

    I thought Reeves wanted more people investing in stocks?

    I thought the Telegraph was debunked as a thoroughly unreliable source?
    Is there any newspaper out there that can be deemed reliable?
    Probably not.

    There isn't that much money in publishing newspapers these days, and what market there is skews older and older.

    So the only way to survive is to cut reporting staff to the bone, publish clickbait to scare/affirm your retired readers (because they're the only ones you have) or hope that some billionaire buys you up as a personal pulpit.

    One of the possibilities that gets missed in the pre-budget period is the the sources for all these "Reeves will tax X" stories may be the Treasury, but they may also be the voices in the head of some hack.

    I hear it's a standard Treasury tactic to say they may blow up bombs everywhere so that when only one or two goes off, rather than four or five, everyone is relieved.

    Personally, I'm not sure I buy it. It's a very political angle to take and the Treasury would know the economic damage it could do as it fuels speculation everywhere.

    I think it's Reeves and her team doing a bit of kiteflying and laying smoke.
    The suggestion of the 20% “exit tax” was on the news headlines and discussed on the breakfast radio show in the sandpit this morning.

    That’s how much of an affect it’s having already, people are making decisions that will stick even if it doesn’t happen this year. People know it’s been floated, and there’s three more Labour budgets still to come.
    I agree the constant tax speculation is unhelpful. It's one reason why I really hope Reeves make OBR forecasts annual. Otherwise we're on speculation of budget black holes every 6 months and the preceding period, which is completely unnecessary.

    On the exit tax, I do think it's worth exploring taxes on expats to low tax countries, but I'm not sure what form that should take. What people shouldn't be able to do is spend their working years abroad paying no tax and then retiring here and taking advantage of our healthcare and state pension with only a few quid spent on voluntary NI contributions.

    If people want the benefits of citizenship / residency in retirement, they should pay their fair share during their working life.
    But doesn't that cut both ways, with some foreigners working here and paying tax then retiring back home? I'm not a fan of people being taxed twice over. It's telling that only the USA and Eritrea currently, I think, impose income tax on citizens who work overseas.
    I know nothing about Eritrean taxes, but the US overseas regime also has a personal allowance of $130,000 and deducts taxes paid locally, before taxes are paid to the IRS.

    If the UK did something similar, for example 10% tax on overseas income above £100k, then I wouldn’t object.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,782
    Stocky said:

    algarkirk said:

    Stocky said:

    Council officers should be applying the regulations to ensure fairness on both sides.

    Without help of some sort, AI or not, local objectors, who lack expertise in this complex area, resort to sloppy, incomplete and irrelevant objections which get knocked down by those that know, who sigh a relief that the meaty grounds for objecting have been missed.

    Meanwhile, council officers are indulging in behind-the-scenes discussions with developers (long past the objection deadline) to get applications through by contorting their own rules, and then they get patted on the back for meeting their new housing targets and enlarging their tax base.

    Parishioners are being out-gunned and the countryside and nature is being cemented over. I've seen all this in action and spoken to people on all sides.
    How, I wonder, is it possible to build millions of dwellings for a population who like low rise with gardens in nice areas with current populations living in nice areas with low rise with nice gardens who don't want any more of them without upsetting someone?

    (In addition I note that in horrible places with high rise and no gardens like parts of cities, the new build dwellings numbers are no better or often worse.)

    The very notion of building 'millions of dwellings' would be a dystopian horror inflicted on our small once-beautiful island, an environmental disaster which has stemmed from successive governments failing to control population numbers (or even have a target to do so).
    Whatever one's view on this does not alter the factual situation about the need and desire for homes to live in, both for people who arrived yesterday and people whose families descend purely from 4th century BCE Celts.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,693

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Lots of pearl clutching here. Orange man bad stuff, yes he is quite bad. But he will be gone soon, I never thought there was a risk that the BBC might implode before he does.

    The excuses on here "yeah but he was inciting a riot", well then why splice the video together to make it appear he was saying something different to what he did?

    They caught fabricating a narrative. That other media organisations do this is neither here or there. Just because other car manufacturers repeatedly break down, and yours has an excellent reputation for reliability shouldnt mean you start producing models that break down.

    The BBC is only really a few more mistakes away from implosion. Imagine losing a post truth pi*sing contest with Donald Trump.

    I'm clearly going to have to start officially complaining every time they edit his current ramblings to make him sound semi-coherent.

    That's going to keep me pretty busy, as they do so regularly.
    It’s slightly weird that it’s taken so long for Trump and Trumpers to notice this supposedly egregious piece of editing, also what practical effect did a piece broadcast to UK viewers have on US politics?

    Quite a good list of quotes to put the ‘poor misrepresented Trump’ narrative into context.

    https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1987667206981984298?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    None whatsoever- which is indicated by the fact that the piece received all of ... zero complaints at the time.
    That’s a sign of just how good a fabrication it was. The best lies are hidden in truth. Nothing Burgers don’t take down the DG and head of news at one of the world’s most recognisable media organisations.
    They lied.
    They lied.
    They lied.

    I was jaw dropping shocked when I saw it. I was saddened to the core that it was the BBC and Panorama. A show that from my youth had always been a programme that meant truth and integrity.

    If a show like Panorama on a station like the BBC can so easily deceive, it makes me question assumptions about all news reporting.
    It’s devastating. To simply dismiss it as orange man bag and it’s probably what he meant anyway, just adds. Carrying water for media corruption because its a noble lie.
    The truth: Trump incited a riot
    The edited lie: Trump incited a riot

    Why the performative shock? We aren't morons on X, doesn't work here.
    Because if we stand for nothing we fall for anything.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,531

    Quiet! All of you!

    "1917" has just started on BBC2!

    Spectacular filmmaking achievement, filmed not far from my parents village on Salisbury plain, but utter ahistorical guff.
    "Now fuck off, Lance Corporal!" :lol:
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,472
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Newsom's response to the Democratic senators folding.

    "Pathetic."
    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1987703732600184837

    Newsom is a malignant narcissist.

    The Dems really need to be looking at other candidates.
    Who would you favour ?
    At present:

    Hobbs, AZ gov
    Beshear, KY gov
    Whitmer, MI gov
    Stein, NC gov
    Shapiro, PN gov
    Kelly, AZ sen
    Gallego, AZ sen
    Slotkin, MI sen
    Cortez Masto, NV sen

    should all be interesting possibilities.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,531

    Nigelb said:

    Newsom's response to the Democratic senators folding.

    "Pathetic."
    https://x.com/GavinNewsom/status/1987703732600184837

    Newsom is a malignant narcissist.

    The Dems really need to be looking at other candidates.
    And your hero Trump isn't a malignant narcissist??
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