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It’s a bold strategy, let’s see if it pays off for Farage – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,204

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,204
    edited October 31
    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,598
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,872

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    Ground shifting underneath Kemi?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,830

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    If you want to know why the Conservative party are at their lowest point ever, this is it.

    You are divided between people who think immigration is the root of all our problems and those that are broadly content with most of it, bar the boats and hotels. So your policies vary week to week, your messaging is unclear and confusing, and you lose the trust and respect of both groups.

    Make your mind up and stick with it. Don't flirt with the other group whichever path you take.
    I think the main problem is that they said one thing - "net migration in the tens of thousands" - and did another.

    It hardly matters what they say on the subject for at least a decade. Who is going to take them seriously again?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,047
    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Not even any full stops. Ghastly.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 954

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,130
    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
    It's a tiered democracy - at every level its democratic. Just at the top level there's an electorate of one.

    This is of course true for the UK too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,862
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    But not more 'culturally' coherent, I hope?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,272

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    If you want to know why the Conservative party are at their lowest point ever, this is it.

    You are divided between people who think immigration is the root of all our problems and those that are broadly content with most of it, bar the boats and hotels. So your policies vary week to week, your messaging is unclear and confusing, and you lose the trust and respect of both groups.

    Make your mind up and stick with it. Don't flirt with the other group whichever path you take.
    I think the main problem is that they said one thing - "net migration in the tens of thousands" - and did another.

    It hardly matters what they say on the subject for at least a decade. Who is going to take them seriously again?
    Who is going to take Labour seriously after their Ming Vase strategy of no rises in Income Tax?

    They are more likely to forget the Tories failings 5+ years on - whereas Labour's will be far more fresh in the mind.

    The Tories will come back. As the natural choice to replace Labour in Government. Maybe. Particualarly if Farage has a health/legal issue that kills Brand Reform.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,598

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    If you want to know why the Conservative party are at their lowest point ever, this is it.

    You are divided between people who think immigration is the root of all our problems and those that are broadly content with most of it, bar the boats and hotels. So your policies vary week to week, your messaging is unclear and confusing, and you lose the trust and respect of both groups.

    Make your mind up and stick with it. Don't flirt with the other group whichever path you take.
    I think the main problem is that they said one thing - "net migration in the tens of thousands" - and did another.

    It hardly matters what they say on the subject for at least a decade. Who is going to take them seriously again?
    It is not like we have a great bunch of options elsewhere so despite their lunacy over the last decade I would like to be able to take them seriously sometime in the 2030s, and would be willing to if they sharpen up and choose a clearly distinctive path to Reform. If they want to be both a respectable establishment party and an insurgent nationalist one, then of course they will simply disappear.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,272
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald "No More Wars" Trump is about to invade Venezuela.

    Guaranteed peace prize now...

    He's gone completely Caracas at last.
    Everybody knows you never go full Caracas....
    If only Donald Trump had never gone full retard...
    Wouldn't it be nice to have a single day where Donald Trump wasn't mentioned...
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 142
    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,872
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 796
    From previous thread....I speak reasonably good french - but not fluent. A few years ago i moved to Paris for two years and thought that it would be a great opportunity to achieve fluency. No chance - either everyone wanted to speak English - or spoke eith such a thick Parissiene accent as to be unintellligible. If you want to practice French, forget France - go to Francophone Africa.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,598
    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
    That's not important to me and probably actually prefer members being at arms length on policy. If you think the MPs (in all our parties) are a bit weird and useless, wait til you hear from the members. That especially applies in government, where the cabinet have far more information than your average party member and have to (at least try to) operate in a coherent manner where one policy has knock on consequences and costs on others.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,598
    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Build more houses.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,130

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Donald "No More Wars" Trump is about to invade Venezuela.

    Guaranteed peace prize now...

    He's gone completely Caracas at last.
    Everybody knows you never go full Caracas....
    If only Donald Trump had never gone full retard...
    Wouldn't it be nice to have a single day where Donald Trump wasn't mentioned...
    The future's bright and the future isn't orange.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,685
    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
    Not a position that hstorically has had a much success in any party. Generally the membership come up with the most stupid, election losing, policies.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,047

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
    Not a position that hstorically has had a much success in any party. Generally the membership come up with the most stupid, election losing, policies.
    What's the data to back up that assertion?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,830

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    If you want to know why the Conservative party are at their lowest point ever, this is it.

    You are divided between people who think immigration is the root of all our problems and those that are broadly content with most of it, bar the boats and hotels. So your policies vary week to week, your messaging is unclear and confusing, and you lose the trust and respect of both groups.

    Make your mind up and stick with it. Don't flirt with the other group whichever path you take.
    I think the main problem is that they said one thing - "net migration in the tens of thousands" - and did another.

    It hardly matters what they say on the subject for at least a decade. Who is going to take them seriously again?
    Who is going to take Labour seriously after their Ming Vase strategy of no rises in Income Tax?

    They are more likely to forget the Tories failings 5+ years on - whereas Labour's will be far more fresh in the mind.

    The Tories will come back. As the natural choice to replace Labour in Government. Maybe. Particualarly if Farage has a health/legal issue that kills Brand Reform.
    It does look like we are going to go through political parties at increasing speed.
  • Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    Badenoch is the only choice for the conservatives going forward and certainly she will be leader in May 26

    Jenrick and Lam are not remotely the answer, and I agree with @HYUFD that Cleverly may succeed her next Summer, though that is not certain by any means

    I would suggest Starmer is likely to be under even more pressure next Spring
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,204
    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    She will make it to Christmas, she had a good enough conference performance for that.

    Whether she lasts beyond May depends on how the Conservatives do in next year's local elections. If she wins back voters from Reform and makes some gains she will survive, if not she will likely lose a VONC and be replaced by Cleverly.

    Cleverly probably most likely to win swing voters and tactical votes in Conservative held seats to beat Reform
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,513
    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,130
    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647

    Prof. Frank McDonough
    @FXMC1957

    31 October 1973. 1st episode of the 26-part classic ITV documentary series World at War was broadcast. It was narrated by Laurence Olivier with music by Carl Davies. It cost £900,000 (worth £11 million today).

    https://x.com/FXMC1957/status/1984189646788788330
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,325
    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
    When the measure is relative poverty (i.e. wrt median income or some such) then the poor are always with us as the Good Book say

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647
    edited October 31

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    Badenoch is the only choice for the conservatives going forward and certainly she will be leader in May 26

    Jenrick and Lam are not remotely the answer, and I agree with @HYUFD that Cleverly may succeed her next Summer, though that is not certain by any means

    I would suggest Starmer is likely to be under even more pressure next Spring
    Tim Shipman has piece in this weekend's Speccie looking at Badenoch leadership.

    General tone: she has learnt a lot in recent months and the sinking ship is beginning to turn. Lot of backroom stuff that has been changed that is just starting to bear fruit. Quite a few Aussie election strategists and gurus have quietly been brought on board.

    They do things differently there...
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 142
    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    If you’re watching QT then you aren’t getting your priorities right !

    But yes small boats is nothing compared with total net migration from 2021 to 2024 which 2 million plus. Like 5% or something ? Too much time focusing on the wrong thing imo
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,130
    geoffw said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
    When the measure is relative poverty (i.e. wrt median income or some such) then the poor are always with us as the Good Book say

    Of course, quite right. There are lots of people that could do with some help in the UK. Some of those are children. Put a sticker on it and earn a good commission? - not for me.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,731
    I hope this is true

    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Massive Ukraine drone strike across multiple Russian regions - more than 200 so far.

    Halloween #explodey
  • PJHPJH Posts: 954

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
    Not a position that hstorically has had a much success in any party. Generally the membership come up with the most stupid, election losing, policies.
    I don't know - Labour has sometimes shot off to the left in response to losing, and some of the Labour members a bit too sure of their ideology to take seriously. Certainly a lot of the Tory members I've met have been bonkers, borderline nazi or both. But when parties succeed they usually seem to have a broad base of moderate support behind them, and a leadership that is able to take the members with them. If parties believe in democracy they ought to show that confidence in how they run their own internal affairs.

    And ultimately if members keep wanting to vote for bonkers policies and never win, surely that's up to them? Another party will present a sensible set of policies and prevail. (At least, that used to be the case... Reform will test that theory).

    I can't see the point of being a member of a party without a having a way to influence policy directly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,204

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    Badenoch is the only choice for the conservatives going forward and certainly she will be leader in May 26

    Jenrick and Lam are not remotely the answer, and I agree with @HYUFD that Cleverly may succeed her next Summer, though that is not certain by any means

    I would suggest Starmer is likely to be under even more pressure next Spring
    Tim Shipman has piece in this weekend's Speccie looking at Badenoch leadership.

    General tone: she has learnt a lot in recent months and the sinking ship is beginning to turn. Lot of backroom stuff that has been changed that is just starting to bear fruit. Quite a few Aussie election strategists and gurus have quietly been brought on board.

    They do things differently there...
    Albeit the Australian conservatives have themselves also just had a landslide defeat they are recovering from
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,956

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    Badenoch is the only choice for the conservatives going forward and certainly she will be leader in May 26

    Jenrick and Lam are not remotely the answer, and I agree with @HYUFD that Cleverly may succeed her next Summer, though that is not certain by any means

    I would suggest Starmer is likely to be under even more pressure next Spring
    Tim Shipman has piece in this weekend's Speccie looking at Badenoch leadership.

    General tone: she has learnt a lot in recent months and the sinking ship is beginning to turn. Lot of backroom stuff that has been changed that is just starting to bear fruit. Quite a few Aussie election strategists and gurus have quietly been brought on board.

    They do things differently there...
    I get the impression that both Labour and the Tories, or specifically Badenoch and the Labour Party excluding Starmer, are starting to realise the difference between party ideology and reality. I think Badenoch will continue to improve and will lead her party into the next GE. If they start attacking Reform and isolating the Jenrick Reform adjacent wing of their party, they could even be the largest party after the next GE. Starmer is too meh to help his party recover. They need Lisa Nandy, David Lammy or someone similar, to avoid being the biggest losers ever. There’s no way I would bet on the next election yet, unless to lay Reform if the odds were good enough.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,464

    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,325
    edited October 31
    The Eve of All Souls
    Best listen to Schubert's Litanei (sung by Dorothee Jansen) for the occasion than join the trick or treaters or get spooked with Danny Robins on BBC R4
    (edit for singer)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647
    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,004

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    Why? The Fruit & Nuts have managed multiple splits *before* going online as a party and choosing a name.

    The Greens are now fishing in the same pool and seem to have put the line in the water, with bait on the end. Rather than wrapping the fishing line round their throats, getting a hook in the eye and fighting each other.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,810

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,862
    PJH said:

    PJH said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    Firewalled so I can't read it. Regardless it is different to what her spokesman said 9 days ago and what others in the shadow cabinet have been saying.

    It is good if Badenoch has changed the policy and recognises the need to be more coherent. Part of that is sacking Lam.
    One problem the Tories have is that their policy is whatever the leader says it is. So if the leader is inconsistent, or unclear, or Boris Johnson, it's very difficult for spokesmen to know what today's policy is.

    One of many reasons why I would never vote for the Tories - in a democracy, how much faith can you have in a party that doesn't even decide its own policy democratically within its membership?
    Not a position that hstorically has had a much success in any party. Generally the membership come up with the most stupid, election losing, policies.
    I don't know - Labour has sometimes shot off to the left in response to losing, and some of the Labour members a bit too sure of their ideology to take seriously. Certainly a lot of the Tory members I've met have been bonkers, borderline nazi or both. But when parties succeed they usually seem to have a broad base of moderate support behind them, and a leadership that is able to take the members with them. If parties believe in democracy they ought to show that confidence in how they run their own internal affairs.

    And ultimately if members keep wanting to vote for bonkers policies and never win, surely that's up to them? Another party will present a sensible set of policies and prevail. (At least, that used to be the case... Reform will test that theory).

    I can't see the point of being a member of a party without a having a way to influence policy directly.
    Good points. I think where membership power becomes a democratic bug rather than a feature is when it leads to radical changes in direction and leadership during government. Such changes lack democratic legitimacy. The Truss episode was an example of this.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,810
    Could I just hat tip @TSE for the header headline.

    As I remember the film, Average Joes strategy did see off GloboGym.

    In part down to dubious betting.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,862
    edited October 31
    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and he leads it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,224
    Penddu2 said:

    From previous thread....I speak reasonably good french - but not fluent. A few years ago i moved to Paris for two years and thought that it would be a great opportunity to achieve fluency. No chance - either everyone wanted to speak English - or spoke eith such a thick Parissiene accent as to be unintellligible. If you want to practice French, forget France - go to Francophone Africa.

    Bit like learning English in Inverness, come to think of it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,329
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and He leads it.
    If Trump strikes Venezuela it will give Corbyn some publicity because of his past support for Maduro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aFOkwaK4c
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,420

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and He leads it.
    If Trump strikes Venezuela it will give Corbyn some publicity because of his past support for Maduro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aFOkwaK4c
    I very much doubt a regime change removing a vile Communist Dictator will move the dial. If Trump can kill enough Venezuelan women and children you may have a point.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,004

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and He leads it.
    If Trump strikes Venezuela it will give Corbyn some publicity because of his past support for Maduro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aFOkwaK4c
    I very much doubt a regime change removing a vile Communist Dictator will move the dial. If Trump can kill enough Venezuelan women and children you may have a point.
    Maduro is a Peronist Dictator - I always found it funny that the Western Ultra Left fell in love with Chavez & his ilk - army guy takes over the country and talks redistribution. And redistributes to himself and family.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,443


    Prof. Frank McDonough
    @FXMC1957

    31 October 1973. 1st episode of the 26-part classic ITV documentary series World at War was broadcast. It was narrated by Laurence Olivier with music by Carl Davies. It cost £900,000 (worth £11 million today).

    https://x.com/FXMC1957/status/1984189646788788330

    Also in 1973:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Man

    Highly recommended and available on iPlayer for anyone who hasn't seen it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,862

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and He leads it.
    If Trump strikes Venezuela it will give Corbyn some publicity because of his past support for Maduro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aFOkwaK4c
    Yes that might help him - we'll all be pro Maduro then.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,420

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and He leads it.
    If Trump strikes Venezuela it will give Corbyn some publicity because of his past support for Maduro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aFOkwaK4c
    I very much doubt a regime change removing a vile Communist Dictator will move the dial. If Trump can kill enough Venezuelan women and children you may have a point.
    Maduro is a Peronist Dictator - I always found it funny that the Western Ultra Left fell in love with Chavez & his ilk - army guy takes over the country and talks redistribution. And redistributes to himself and family.
    This from PB's favourite daily.

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/node/47183
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,692

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    Badenoch is the only choice for the conservatives going forward and certainly she will be leader in May 26

    Jenrick and Lam are not remotely the answer, and I agree with @HYUFD that Cleverly may succeed her next Summer, though that is not certain by any means

    I would suggest Starmer is likely to be under even more pressure next Spring
    Tim Shipman has piece in this weekend's Speccie looking at Badenoch leadership.

    General tone: she has learnt a lot in recent months and the sinking ship is beginning to turn. Lot of backroom stuff that has been changed that is just starting to bear fruit. Quite a few Aussie election strategists and gurus have quietly been brought on board.

    They do things differently there...
    Turn or no turn, that ship is still sinking.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,420

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    If you want to know why the Conservative party are at their lowest point ever, this is it.

    You are divided between people who think immigration is the root of all our problems and those that are broadly content with most of it, bar the boats and hotels. So your policies vary week to week, your messaging is unclear and confusing, and you lose the trust and respect of both groups.

    Make your mind up and stick with it. Don't flirt with the other group whichever path you take.
    I think the main problem is that they said one thing - "net migration in the tens of thousands" - and did another.

    It hardly matters what they say on the subject for at least a decade. Who is going to take them seriously again?
    Who is going to take Labour seriously after their Ming Vase strategy of no rises in Income Tax?

    They are more likely to forget the Tories failings 5+ years on - whereas Labour's will be far more fresh in the mind.

    The Tories will come back. As the natural choice to replace Labour in Government. Maybe. Particualarly if Farage has a health/legal issue that kills Brand Reform.
    You are right about Labour, but I admire your optimism on the Tory revival. Perhaps next week, or at the earliest when Lam or Jenrick take hold of the reins. Jenrick, and particularly Lam will damage Reform substantially. They are singing Reform songs, but with a cheerier tune.
  • Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,468

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,004

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and He leads it.
    If Trump strikes Venezuela it will give Corbyn some publicity because of his past support for Maduro.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_aFOkwaK4c
    I very much doubt a regime change removing a vile Communist Dictator will move the dial. If Trump can kill enough Venezuelan women and children you may have a point.
    Maduro is a Peronist Dictator - I always found it funny that the Western Ultra Left fell in love with Chavez & his ilk - army guy takes over the country and talks redistribution. And redistributes to himself and family.
    This from PB's favourite daily.

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/node/47183
    What was that line from GW Bush about following some of the people all of the time?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,130

    Battlebus said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Isn't that, err, Tory policy as well?
    No. That is PRECISELY the point, the Tories are not proposing to deport immigrants with indefinite leave to remain Badenoch and Philp have confirmed, while Reform still are. Hence Farage's 'Never Trust a Tory' line
    They better make their mind up and get some consistency if that is true and they want that message to be heard. This is from 9 days ago. if you receive benefits you lose ILR. Not sure how that is different to Reforms you need a job to keep ILR and won't get benefits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/22/deporting-legally-settled-people-broadly-in-line-conservative-policy-kemi-badenoch

    Asked about Lam’s comments, Badenoch’s spokesperson said some had been “pulled out of context”. He said: “She said there are a large number of people who came to this country legally but shouldn’t have been able to do so. The leader of the opposition agrees with that.”

    Highlighting the party’s plan to strip ILR from people who receive benefits, who commit a crime or whose income falls below £38,700 for six months or longer, he said: “I think that’s broadly in line with what Katie said and that is the Conservative party policy.”
    "Kemi Badenoch said that the rising Tory star Katie Lam “imprecisely” explained Conservative immigration policy, but admitted that the position needed to be more “coherent”.

    The Conservative leader denied that the party would deport migrants who have already been granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR), which allows foreign nationals to live, work and study in the UK permanently. She insisted that the party “doesn’t believe in making things retrospective”.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/kemi-badenoch-tory-katie-lam-settled-status-immigration-f2568gwsr?msockid=2d4ff4e9b7de61532b13e0ecb6e66004
    If you are a Conservative holding down one of the seats up for election in May 2026, you must be wondering what can be done to stop the headlong rush to Reform. Some are arguing you have to wait until the debacle hits before Kemi is toast but why wait? A new leader 6 months out would give their local councillors something to talk about positively and take the battle to Reform.

    Kemi's time is up in November so let's see if she can make it to Xmas.
    Badenoch is the only choice for the conservatives going forward and certainly she will be leader in May 26

    Jenrick and Lam are not remotely the answer, and I agree with @HYUFD that Cleverly may succeed her next Summer, though that is not certain by any means

    I would suggest Starmer is likely to be under even more pressure next Spring
    Tim Shipman has piece in this weekend's Speccie looking at Badenoch leadership.

    General tone: she has learnt a lot in recent months and the sinking ship is beginning to turn. Lot of backroom stuff that has been changed that is just starting to bear fruit. Quite a few Aussie election strategists and gurus have quietly been brought on board.

    They do things differently there...
    If they are relying on Australians I assume it's because there is a complete lack of native talent willing to work for them. We also underestimate how hard it is to become an expert on another country's politics.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,130
    Today in antisemitism - there appears to be quite a quarrel happening on the American right, particularly the Heritage foundation.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,731

    Today in antisemitism - there appears to be quite a quarrel happening on the American right, particularly the Heritage foundation.

    https://bsky.app/profile/joelhs.bsky.social/post/3m4gzansohs2a
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,224

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecimus_Stratton
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,763
    .
    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    If Mogg can have Sixtus...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,893
    Carnyx said:

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecimus_Stratton
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Barbon

    (Doesn’t look much, but check out under ‘Early Life’)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,692

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    Is that the benchmark - not quite the strangest name we could call our child?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,553
    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and he leads it.
    A few Green Party councillors here in Glasgow have jumped ship to them already. Mostly the kind you would expect - but still. Possibly a sign of a bit of too-and-fro in the Greens <-> Sultana Party.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,517
    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleven_(Stranger_Things)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,553
    Carnyx said:
    Noooo! I was just recommending his Culloden to someone the other day. Sad times.
  • viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    Is that the benchmark - not quite the strangest name we could call our child?
    Should we turn that benchmark upside down?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,692
    edited October 31

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    Is that the benchmark - not quite the strangest name we could call our child?
    Should we turn that benchmark upside down?
    I've never watched Stranger Things so your witty comment was lost on me, I'm afraid.

    I quite like the name tbh. Beats Ben any day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,763
    This is pretty bad.

    Several hundred feared dead as Tanzania election protests continue
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz0x8vdvkjgo.amp
    ...The BBC understands that ambassadors from several foreign embassies have also engaged the Tanzanian government to urge restraint from security forces in policing the protests.
    By late afternoon on Friday, the electoral commission had announced results from about 80 of the country's 272 regions, according to the state broadcaster TBC.
    The BBC understands that international observers have reported an incredibly low turnout during polling on Wednesday.
    President Samia is expected to win the vote under the ruling Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) party, which has governed the country since independence in 1961..

    ..The protesters accuse the government of undermining democracy, as the main opposition leader, Tundu Lissu, is in jail and another opposition figure was disqualified from the election, bolstering Samia's chances of winning.
    Lissu is being held on treason charges, which he denies, and his party boycotted the vote.
    The only other serious contender, Luhaga Mpina of the ACT-Wazalendo party, was excluded on legal technicalities.
    Sixteen fringe parties, none of whom have historically had significant public support, were cleared to contest the elections..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,763
    And there it is...

    Announcement is made that the US House will be out of session again next week

    They haven't voted since mid-September

    https://x.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1984309152999465122
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647
    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Barnesian said:


    Reform, Tory and LD vote shares look to have stabilised.
    Labour is still losing share to the Greens.

    Sultana party will take a chunk of that Green vertical line shortly.

    I think not. They will still be arguing about resolutions and party procedures when Polanski is sweeping up to the Palace on his electric bike to collect the keys to Downing st.
    It depends on how strong the Corbyn brand still is. My sense is it isn't, but I'm not sure. We'll soon see, assuming YP does launch and he leads it.
    A few Green Party councillors here in Glasgow have jumped ship to them already. Mostly the kind you would expect - but still. Possibly a sign of a bit of too-and-fro in the Greens <-> Sultana Party.
    Five Lab councillors defected in Nottingham to 'Your Local Alliance' or words to that effect yesterday.

    Seems likely they are on their way to the Marx-4-Gaza Party.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,893
    edited October 31

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    Is that the benchmark - not quite the strangest name we could call our child?
    Should we turn that benchmark upside down?
    I've never watched Stranger Things so your witty comment was lost on me, I'm afraid.

    I quite like the name tbh. Beats Ben any day.
    Is that your only pointer? :smile:
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,325

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    Is that the benchmark - not quite the strangest name we could call our child?
    Should we turn that benchmark upside down?
    I've never watched Stranger Things so your witty comment was lost on me, I'm afraid.

    I quite like the name tbh. Beats Ben any day.
    When we lived in Paris in the 1970s our daughter aged 2½ went to the école maternelle and started talking about her new imaginary friend there, "Onzedouzeterka"

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647
    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    6h
    Erika Kirk: “No one will ever replace my husband, but I do see some similarities of my husband in JD”


    =====

    Is there a market on Vance's veep running mate?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,579
    Nigelb - Thank you for telling us about this Tanzania election violence. (Using "like" seems inappropriate, for obvious reasons.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,151
    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
    I thought he said "Coventry".

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,004
    https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/slain-calif-tech-ceo-humiliated-workers-report-21125144.php

    Does it make me a bad person, that my reaction to this is to giggle?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,830
    Nigelb said:

    And there it is...

    Announcement is made that the US House will be out of session again next week

    They haven't voted since mid-September

    https://x.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1984309152999465122

    Given that this seems to be motivated purely to prevent sitting the new Representative from Arizona, who would force a vote on the release of the Epstein files, you would think that this would be creating more of a stink.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,169
    Breaking: Customers at Isle of Wight Sainsbury's were left concerned this afternoon (Friday, October 31) after the A from the shop's sign fell onto the car park.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647

    Nigelb said:

    And there it is...

    Announcement is made that the US House will be out of session again next week

    They haven't voted since mid-September

    https://x.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1984309152999465122

    Given that this seems to be motivated purely to prevent sitting the new Representative from Arizona, who would force a vote on the release of the Epstein files, you would think that this would be creating more of a stink.
    What's the plan though? Never sit again?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,647
    Nigelb said:

    This is pretty bad.

    Several hundred feared dead as Tanzania election protests continue
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz0x8vdvkjgo.amp
    ...The BBC understands that ambassadors from several foreign embassies have also engaged the Tanzanian government to urge restraint from security forces in policing the protests.
    By late afternoon on Friday, the electoral commission had announced results from about 80 of the country's 272 regions, according to the state broadcaster TBC.
    The BBC understands that international observers have reported an incredibly low turnout during polling on Wednesday.
    President Samia is expected to win the vote under the ruling Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) party, which has governed the country since independence in 1961..

    ..The protesters accuse the government of undermining democracy, as the main opposition leader, Tundu Lissu, is in jail and another opposition figure was disqualified from the election, bolstering Samia's chances of winning.
    Lissu is being held on treason charges, which he denies, and his party boycotted the vote.
    The only other serious contender, Luhaga Mpina of the ACT-Wazalendo party, was excluded on legal technicalities.
    Sixteen fringe parties, none of whom have historically had significant public support, were cleared to contest the elections..

    Sounds like the mid-terms.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,698
    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
    There really are. Yes, one of our main indicators is relative poverty, but there are still too many children in significant poverty from an absolute perspective, who are poor enough to have significantly worse health outcomes, etc.: https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/family-and-social-environment/child-poverty/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,893

    Nigelb said:

    And there it is...

    Announcement is made that the US House will be out of session again next week

    They haven't voted since mid-September

    https://x.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1984309152999465122

    Given that this seems to be motivated purely to prevent sitting the new Representative from Arizona, who would force a vote on the release of the Epstein files, you would think that this would be creating more of a stink.
    What's the plan though? Never sit again?

    Plan?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,810
    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: Customers at Isle of Wight Sainsbury's were left concerned this afternoon (Friday, October 31) after the A from the shop's sign fell onto the car park.

    Who would buy from Sinsbury?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,325
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: Customers at Isle of Wight Sainsbury's were left concerned this afternoon (Friday, October 31) after the A from the shop's sign fell onto the car park.

    Who would buy from Sinsbury?
    The Roman Catholic church?

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,698
    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    Rees-Mogg named his 6th child Sixtus, so I think Bart can name a child Eleven.
  • Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
    There really are. Yes, one of our main indicators is relative poverty, but there are still too many children in significant poverty from an absolute perspective, who are poor enough to have significantly worse health outcomes, etc.: https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/family-and-social-environment/child-poverty/
    Not really, even the absolute poverty is relative.

    The real understanding of poverty is what is defined as destitute, a dramatically lower number.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,763

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    Rees-Mogg named his 6th child Sixtus, so I think Bart can name a child Eleven.
    Is everyone missing the point, or just playing this straight ?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,325

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    Rees-Mogg named his 6th child Sixtus, so I think Bart can name a child Eleven.
    On that basis it should be Undecimus

  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 319

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    There are stranger things to call a child than Eleven surely?
    13 or 666 for sure..l
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,698

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    There really aren't 'children in poverty' in the UK.
    There really are. Yes, one of our main indicators is relative poverty, but there are still too many children in significant poverty from an absolute perspective, who are poor enough to have significantly worse health outcomes, etc.: https://stateofchildhealth.rcpch.ac.uk/evidence/family-and-social-environment/child-poverty/
    Not really, even the absolute poverty is relative.

    The real understanding of poverty is what is defined as destitute, a dramatically lower number.
    But a non-zero number, proving Omnium's contention in error.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 68
    edited October 31
    stodge said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    bobbob said:

    HYUFD said:

    So Reform confirm they would deport even immigrants with indefinite leave to remain, a pretty vile policy.

    Given most of their voters and MPs are ex Tories not a great tactic from Farage to dismiss them either

    Ok so what is your plan to solve the Tory immigrant crisis ? “ Whoops we ‘accidentally’ let 3 million people in can’t do anything now lol” is not an answer

    This country is sick of soft open borders pro immigration wets

    The target should be negative net migrants vs 2010 numbers
    Net migration is already falling due to the tighter visa wage requirements Sunak and Cleverly brought in.

    It doesn't mean you need to go full BNP as well
    So there are fewer migrants in the uk than in 2010 ? Or are UK migrant numbers still increasing ?

    What is the alternative plan to reduce the number of migrants in the UK ? Not reduce the RATE of increase but reduce them full stop. No one else seems to have one
    Kick them all out? As I presume you back? Hence you are voting for Farage
    Open to other options. Extra taxes on migrants is the only other option I’ve seen suggested

    We need a one off migrant policy reset back to sanity
    Interesting to see applause on QT for the comment we spend so much time debating fewer than 40,000 people arriving on small boats versus children in poverty.

    Perhaps finally we're getting our priorities right.
    QT audiences are like election hustings. The local great and good from political parties, local ngos and councils attend en masse.

    Went to hustings in 2019 in a constituency that overwhelmingly voted brexit, the Tory mp (who didn’t vote to leave) got booed when he insisted that it was important that the vote be respected. The audience was hostile to everything he said. By the measure of the hustings you would think he was going to lose his seat. He won with an 8,000 majority.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,685
    Question (with apologies if this has already been discussed)

    Why is Starmer refusing to instigate the removal of Andrew Windsor from the Succession? Does anyone really think it would be a bad idea? In purely political terms this seems like a clear win for Starmer and he would almost certainly even have the support of the King. But he apparently is resisting doing it. I find that surprising.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 319
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: Customers at Isle of Wight Sainsbury's were left concerned this afternoon (Friday, October 31) after the A from the shop's sign fell onto the car park.

    Who would buy from Sinsbury?
    They do a good devilled eggs..
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,698

    Question (with apologies if this has already been discussed)

    Why is Starmer refusing to instigate the removal of Andrew Windsor from the Succession? Does anyone really think it would be a bad idea? In purely political terms this seems like a clear win for Starmer and he would almost certainly even have the support of the King. But he apparently is resisting doing it. I find that surprising.

    He's 8th in line. He's never going to become King. It's a completely academic point.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,468
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Happy Halloween everyone.

    Had a great time Trick or Treating with our little Eleven and Enid.

    Lovely community spirit, everyone out and about was well dressed and mannered.

    Now observing our traditional annual way of saying goodbye to Halloween and welcoming Christmas by watching Nightmare Before Christmas.

    Pause

    You have a child called "Eleven"?
    Rees-Mogg named his 6th child Sixtus, so I think Bart can name a child Eleven.
    Is everyone missing the point, or just playing this straight ?
    I am aware that there is a character in "Stranger Things" that is called "Eleven". However her clothing is not such that would constitute a Halloween costume. So unless Barty had shaved her head, there was no reason to call his child "Eleven" unless that was actually their name. Hence my question.
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